Plainclothes Police Perforate Philly Pizza Guy


Mr. Holland (courtesy

“Investigators say the two [unnamed] officers, announcing they were police, approached 20-year-old Phil Holland near 50th and Willows Avenue to question him after receiving a report of gunshots in the area,” reports. “Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey says it appears Holland either didn’t hear, or didn’t believe the officers, racing off in his car apparently thinking they were robbers. Police say the officers, who was almost run down but not hurt, fired ten shots into the car, striking Holland three times.” . . .

The article doesn’t mention the detectives’ race or the ethnicity of the aerated pizza guy. Because that would be wrong. But Commissioner Ramsey did wish Mr. Holland a speedy recovery.

“This is a good young man and I just pray he is able to overcome his injuries.”

If only to limit the city’s financial liability.


  1. avatar Dano says:

    The PPD is full of idiots. I’ve never had a positive professional dealing with them. It’s almost like they seek out those who are illiterate, have a low IQ, and are mental defectives – then they hire them, and give them a badge.

    1. avatar Fler says:

      I’ll do it before any cops or cop wannabes do it: “but, but, but, there are good ones, too”.

      1. avatar Chas says:

        And “they have such a hard job”.


        1. avatar BlueBronco says:

          They could have a dangerous job like . . . pizza delivery.

    2. avatar fred farkle says:

      Like that old National Lampoon Radio Hour skit about the Philly PD they ARE “MORONS PSYCHOPATHS AND MENTAL DEFECTIVES”

      1. avatar whatever says:

        Yeah but they serve the city’s politicians, wealthy special interests and gang leaders perfectly. They are intellectually incurious enough to viciously oppress people in their same situation and amoral enough to accept bribes for assisting the criminal behavior of our betters. I’m quickly coming to the belief that none of this is an accident.

  2. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

    don’t worry Shannon, you can explain to his mom how he was just the help . . . . .

  3. avatar Jeff says:

    u gon get sued

  4. avatar Hannibal says:

    The headline makes it sound like the police shot this guy fearing he was going to rob them.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      While he was FLEEING them!

    2. avatar Dave says:

      One of the most uncomfortable police phrases is: “The officers were almost run down.”

      Police use this statement time and again to make it sound like self defense after they shoot at an unarmed person. Without knowledge of the situation, we are supposed to assume that a pizza driver in fear for his life would flee TOWARD the people trying to rob him.

      1. avatar GS650G says:

        Bingo. This man and his family are lawsuit lottery winners and they know it. They need to mitigate the stupidity of shooting at a fleeing vehicle.

    3. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Maybe there was a dog in the car and officers feared for their own safety.

    4. avatar Gaston G says:

      Apparently, the donuts were stale that night, and they were in the mood for a slice.

      The young man rudely refused them the free pie to which they were entitled as LEOs.

  5. avatar Cameron S. says:

    If he survives this ordeal, I imagine his working days may be done.

  6. avatar JasonM says:

    Guns are safe, but only in the hands of trained professionals like the police. A police officer would never be responsible for something like this.

    What’s that?…Both of them?…Never mind…

  7. avatar Eric L says:

    Why would anyone draw and fire at someone that, as far as I can tell, did not show intent to harm anyone? ….and yes, I read the part of the victim almost hitting the ( plain clothed)cop with his car, but if he did think it was a robbery or something along those lines can you blame him?

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Because it’s Philadelphia, the City of Brotherly Love.

      In all my travels there I’ve never encountered any. And Ramsay belongs there. He’s finally descended to his element.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        Yep. DeeCee was a little about his level of capability. That’s saying something, in itself. HACK.

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      From their perspective he may have been a suspect in a shots fired incident who then attempted to flee and\or hit them with a vehicle. In the moment it’s easy to forget that the other person might just be an innocent person reasonable afraid of being robbed.

      Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying they should have been shooting at him… getting out of the way seems like a better option. I wonder if the shots were fired through the windshield or back window.

      1. avatar Fler says:

        As we know, an “officer’s” perspective and “safety” are all that matters in Slavelandia.

      2. avatar Another Robert says:

        If I’m remembering my criminal law courses correctly, the “fleeing felon” justification for shooting a suspect is no longer valid without some indication that the fugitive presents an immediate danger to someone’s life. I could have that wrong, maybe someone more up to speed can correct me.

        1. avatar William Burke says:

          It would appear you have a higher level of knowledge of this than they do. Who doesn’t?

          No matter. It will be ruled “justified”. I wonder if it would be if they shot Holder? He’s a felon, or should be.

        2. avatar ropingdown says:

          Being licensed to practice in the state I can advise you that in Philadelphia there is a well-established and complete defense to a charge of negligent homicide-by-cop. In technical legal writing it is called the “dat f’ker pissed me off” defense. It is often confused by the layman with the “he moved his hands” defense, which is, of course, entirely different, since the “dat f’ker pissed me off” defense is applicable even in cases in which the supposed victim hand no hands.

        3. avatar LarryinTX says:

          While it seems like “common sense”, I’d say there should be laws against police shooting at any fleeing suspect while in plainclothes, as someone assuming they are armed robbers, thus trying to escape, is just too easy.

      3. avatar BlueBronco says:

        Sorry, if this went down the way it described, these to “plain cloths” guys need jail time for assault & battery with a deadly weapon and attempted murder.

  8. avatar Jim R says:

    Pizza delivery is a dangerous job. You’re on the clock and you’re guaranteed to have something a hoodlum wants. That’s either going to be a free meal, or cash. And you have to go wherever you’re told to go.

    If I were working that job, I’d carry every day, whether my employer permitted me or not.

    1. avatar joleme says:

      As if it isn’t a shitty enough job as is, now pizza delivery people in Philly have to worry about the police pulling them over and shooting them too.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      He’ll never know unless you turn up alive when you should be dead.

  9. avatar former water walker says:

    Delivering pizza while black. Sounds pretty damn dangerous. I hope he makes a ton of $. 10 shots fired seems a mite excessive to me. Glad my son quit the pizza delivery business.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      Yeah, my daughter too. Only she’s not black. Just a little tan. Does that count?

    2. avatar whatever says:

      Instead of paying the blood money, I really wish this crap simply stops. There should be no legal justification for any law-abiding citizen to go weapons free every time they don’t immediately get their way.

  10. avatar Pahtun6 says:

    It sounds like the coo pulled the trigger as fast as he could? That would explain 10 shots. I don’t really think the fault lies entirely with either party on this

    1. avatar Another Robert says:

      I usually think that any 2A restriction the law imposes on ordinary citizens should also apply to police. I’m starting to think magazine-capacity limits should apply _particularly_ to police.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        What makes you think both cops weren’t shooting? How about a capacity limit of 2?

      2. avatar alanhinMN says:

        One round in the pocket was enough for Bernard “Barney” Milton Fife.

    2. avatar William Burke says:

      So you’d wait around in a bad neighborhood for them to shoot you? Please don’t forget to put me in your will.

  11. avatar Nighthawk says:

    it’s been statistically demonstrated that (by a percentage) cops are involved in far more bad shootings under the purview of Defensive Gun Use than law-abiding citizens, but politicians, liberals and city police departments still maintain they are the only ones qualified and trustworthy behind a gun.

  12. avatar Werewolf1021 says:

    That title is really poorly worded. Who feared robbery, the cops or the pizza guy?

    1. avatar Robert Farago says:

      Headline amended. Thanks!

  13. avatar Slick says:

    Did I read that right? The pizza guy tried to run one of the officers (whom he thought were robbers?) while he was driving away?

    1. avatar Another Robert says:

      Well, technically it said one or both of the officers was/were almost run down. Depeding on how they were placed relative to the car when the pizza guy started to “run” it may or may not have been entirely intentional on the pizza guy’s part. A better rendition of the facts would indeed be helpful.

    2. avatar doesky2 says:

      It’s my impression that cops get a very wide leeway when they talk about “almost getting run over”. I’m guessing if the car is within 30 yards they yelp about almost getting run over. So after the guy “almost runs you over and NOW IS PAST YOU AND ALL YOU SEE ARE TAILLIGHTS how exactly is that car a threat to you?

  14. avatar BenFoo says:

    Or maybe he did fear for his life. Wouldnt be the first time certian PPD officers acted in such a manner….

    A Philadelphia plainclothes narcotics squad had barreled into the immigrants’ bodegas, guns drawn. They had cut the wires on the stores’ video surveillance systems, robbed thousands of dollars from the cash drawers, stolen food and merchandise and then trashed the shops on their way out the door.

    One bodega owner even had footage of the cops cutting the video wires.

    You’d think that would have been enough to get the cops busted. Or, at the very least, fired.

    But this is Philadelphia, where, a disgusted veteran officer tells me, “The only way a cop can lose his job in this city is if he shoots another cop during roll call.”


  15. avatar Gunr says:

    Need more “facts” to be able to tell what really happened. This story could go either way!

  16. avatar DV says:

    He’s black! He didnt hear the shots! He drove away from us! It must be the guy! Shoot him!

    Oh, the shooter was a white male?

  17. avatar Ralph says:

    He made a furtive movement™ and the brave officers were in fear of their lives™. The Philadelphia police take shootings very seriously™.

    Meanwhile, Cliven Bundy is being publicly flayed for using the word Negro while the Philly PD is exonerated for shooting them. What a world.

    1. avatar Russ Bixby says:

      Um, Bundy used a few other words in connexion with the word negro.

      It’s whole sentences that matter.

      1. avatar percynjpn says:


      2. avatar Ralph says:

        Okay, Russ, I get it — but Bundy used his mouth and the Philly cops used their guns. Which is worse?

      3. avatar Sammy says:


        And if the poor WORKING guy was headed in the opposite direction, does that mean he was “shot in the back”? A situation a civilian would be hard pressed to justify.

      4. avatar BlueBronco says:

        Well, you are naive if you think there aren’t places in Philly that fit what Bundy described.

    2. avatar Maineuh says:

      I understood this, anyway.

    3. avatar William Burke says:

      Indeed. Justice for bad cops is a rarer than a Fabergé egg.

  18. avatar Pahtun6 says:

    Why are there trade mark abreviations in your post Ralph? I’m honestly curious…

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      Because the cops use those phrases to justify shooting people and dogs so often that I expect that they are trademarked.

      1. avatar Filthy McNasty says:

        The trade marks are spot on!!

  19. avatar Lfshtr says:

    When ya go bang, be sure he is attacking you and he dies from powder burns. I’m scared now to run! Be careful out there, and hide in the dark.

  20. avatar Russ Bixby says:

    What else should one expect from the City that Bombed Itself?

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      PLEASE don’t drop that satchel charge on me! Go drop it on yourself.

    2. avatar Ralph says:


  21. avatar William Burke says:

    Let this be a lesson, pizza delivery places of Philly: don’t EVER deliver a pizza to the police! Just say no. Nicely. So they don’t come and shoot you.

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      Either don’t deliver the pizzas or leave off the anchovies. Cops hate anchovies.

      1. avatar ropingdown says:

        Makes sense that they don’t like the only healthy non-fattening ingredient on the pizza. Heck, just give ’em the dough, ’cause whether frosted or in an envelope, it’s dough that they like.

      2. avatar Vhyrus says:

        I thought they hated bacon… you know, too close to home. I heard if you put doughnut glaze on it they pay double though.

  22. avatar ropingdown says:

    The correct term for victims of a shotgun assault simply isn’t ‘aerated.’ That only applies to those shot with a 9mm or .40cal. A shotgun victim has been ‘rototilled.’

    1. avatar Michael in GA says:

      You just pissed off a lot of .40 worshipers. Us 9mm guys can take a joke.

  23. avatar Accur81 says:

    There aren’t a whole lot of details in the story. It is possible that the pizza driver drove in a manner that could be considered an assault with a deadly weapon. It’s also possible that this shoot was as dirty as the city of Philly. Perhaps there are shades in between. A thorough, impartial investigation as to the totality of the circumstances and the perceptions of all parties involved would reveal what really happened and who committed what crime(s).

    With that being said, I doubt we’ll get a proper investigation. Cell phone cameras aren’t necessarily rolling when bullets are flying, and everyone involved will either be looking for $ or to cover their a$$.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      And the driver may yet expire of the six bullets that hit him, only 3 of which were found when he was admitted to the hospital.

  24. avatar Andy says:

    Nothing about a weapon being found in the vehicle after the subject was shot , if he had been the one firing the shots in the neighborhood , don’t ya think they would have found a weapon? This one smells to me ! I remember reading somewhere , where cops were robbing some folks but I don’t think it was Philly . More and more cops shooting folks and dogs then asking questions or not , and then their bosses clearing them of any wrong doing , probably will go that way for this case too . It is a shame what this country is going to . Be prepared and ready . Keep your powder dry .

  25. avatar irish92618 says:

    “District Attorney Seth Williams says this shooting, as is the case with all police shootings, will be investigated by his office.”

    and of course the officers will be found blameless and given medals …..

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      … as is the case with all police shootings.

  26. avatar Sammy says:

    And not a peep on KYW (Philadelphia’s democratic AM voice). I live in Center City and if it weren’t for TTAG I wouldn’t know it happened. The lack of coverage is also attributable to the heavy union control of events. Now if some OFWG defended himself and not shot his assailant in the back, the media would be all over it. In a city who’s mayor is named nutter, what can you expect?

  27. avatar John in Ohio says:

    Well, at least the poor ol’ officers made it home safely at the end of their shift. That makes it all acceptable. [/sarc]

    If there was a genuine risk of receiving return fire and juries no-billing defendants in these cases, it would become much less likely, IMHO. Likewise if officers were routinely charged criminally in these instances.

  28. avatar Anonymous says:

    Seems to me… if the threat is no longer a threat why use lethal force? He had already driven by them… and was no longer a threat? Why shoot at him? Maybe they just wanted a paid vacation?

Write a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

button to share on facebook
button to tweet
button to share via email