JB from Richmond Texas recently posted a petition at whitehouse.gov‘s We The People petition page, which now requires 100k signatures before eliciting an official FOAD response. This one asks the President to “Allow military service members to carry concealed firearms on federal and state installations.” Text after jump below, click on the link above to sign, although you have to create an account. [Note: if you think the NSA doesn’t know where you live you’re dreaming.]
Military service members must be allowed to carry concealed firearms on all Federal and State installations when they are in possession of a current valid concealed weapon permit issued by the State. Had concealed carry been permitted, service members could have potentially stopped the shooters at Fort Hood and the Washington Naval Yard. We must stop denying our Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines the right and ability to defend themselves when targeted in mass shooting events.
Not worth the time it took him to make this!
This, however is worth the time to read: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/brenner-brief/2013/sep/17/gun-control-debate-sen-feinstein-does-not-want-hav/
It just went up by one. Just a little bit that can be done to push back against the deluge of lies.
I am willing to sign the petition, but …
There are a lot of military installations in states that effectively do NOT issue concealed carry licenses — such as Hawaii, Maryland, and California (at least where the bases are located). And Washington D.C. has no provision for concealed carry licenses at all. Thus an executive order that “allows” military personnel with concealed carry licenses to carry at military installations is of extremely limited value. Further complicating matters, military personnel may claim one state for residency even though they are temporarily on a military base in another state. What happens to those personnel if the state where they are temporarily serving does not honor their home state’s concealed carry license?
Furthermore, this totally fails to address military personnel on military bases in foreign countries.
If you allow individuals to carry on military installations IAW local laws then this remedies the issues you are talking about. I am stationed in TX and a TX resident with a TX permit so I would be able to carry onto any installation in TX and in any state that recognizes a TX CHL. However, I am looking at moving to a new duty station in OH next year and OH does not recognize the TX CHL therefore I would need to get an OH permit or (what I plan to do) get the FL and UT non-resident permits which are recognized in OH thus allowing me to continue to carry.
If instead of moving to OH I were to move to MA or DC (which is possible) then I would be SOL and just have to accept not being able to carry. At the end of the day though I would rather that someone be able to carry somewhere rather than no one be able to carry just because I may not be allowed to do so. We can’t argue against this idea just because it doesn’t help everyone.
You would be able to get a CCW license in MA, granted you wouldn’t be able to carry until you got it, MA has zero reciprocity. I guess “would be able to” is kind of a stretch too, it really depends on where you live, we have a patch work of “May Issue” and “Shall Issue” depending on local law enforcement/city ordinances.
It should be allowed to carry while on base, regardless of what state laws are… Military Bases are federal, not state property – would allow for overseas carry as well. Do what they do for DLs in foreign countries: take written and driving tests (in this case shooting), get your license… Just don’t allow carry off base without CCW … simple.
Exactly. I signed the petition, but it does not go far enough. If you are in the military and your job involves any firearms, and you are not drinking, then you should be allowed to carry open or concealed on base, regardless of local laws.
I could understand not allowing it for some rates; I was a supply clerk on a ship and only saw guns when the 5″ went off during drills. But anyone who is expected to carry a firearm during war should be allowed to carry on base.
American citizens must be allowed to carry concealed firearms on all Federal and State installations when they are in possession of a current valid concealed weapon permit issued by the State. Had concealed carry been permitted, American citizens could have potentially stopped the shooters at Fort Hood and the Washington Naval Yard. We must stop denying our citizens the right and ability to defend themselves when targeted in mass shooting events.
Fixed it.
Ultimately this part should be removed as well
“when they are in possession of a current valid concealed weapon permit issued by the State.”
The State has already issues a concealed carry protection, it’s called the Second Amendment.
Forcibly disarming all military personnel on military bases is asinine at best and treason at worst in my opinion. There are two simple scenarios that compel our military personnel to be armed on bases at all times.
(1) Foreign attack/invasion
(2) Surgical strikes to acquire specific assets
An invading nation could send a relatively small number of soldiers (say 200) to any given base and promptly kill everyone or simply take over the entire installation. Whatever function that base played in our national defense would no longer be in play.
Or, a dozen men could overwhelm a specific location on a base to steal something of value. Imagine the goodies there.
Whatever the scenario, our military installations are supposed to be critical to our national defense. Why in the hell would anyone think for even one second that the personnel on base or in installations should be unarmed and our bases unsecured?
And before anyone claims that our installations are secure because there are fences around them and an armed guard at the vehicle gate, give me a break. That isn’t even a speed bump to a skilled, determined, and properly equipped attacking force of a dozen men much less an elite force of 100 to 200 attackers.
Playing Devil’s advocate, I can see a great potential for loss, theft, and misuse of issued weapons. And the potential for arrest if the weapons are taken off-post without the appropriate papers. Personal weapons, not so much.
Also, didn’t I see an item regarding the ability for former Military LE to carry? I can’t remember the specifics; perhaps someone less lazy can find them on here.
This may have changed since 9/11, but when I was in the service in the ’80s, even on armed guard duty (and this include the payroll officer in Germany), we were issued THREE live rounds for our M-16! We live in a scary world these days with an estimated 100 million radical Islamists who want to kill infidels and especially American soldiers. Our troops need to be able to protect themselves.
I remember hearing about how a founding member of SEAL team six was tasked to evaluate Navy security, and he kind of took the assignment a little too seriously. He was able to abduct and torture admirals without security even knowing they were gone.
I signed… but…
Have ANY of these petitions (on any topic) ever gotten an official response aside from “Thanks for your ideas, but piss off, we’re doing whatever we want anyway…”
All these petitions prove is that there is zero accountability to the people that elected these fools.
Several. Usually the ones that The People desire.
Good old Bush Sr. I guess he did not wrong.
Our domestic bases are getting better at base security but I recall jumping the fence and out running the MPs to my bunk many times. Often I was the only armed presence on my base, a 1911A1 and 3 rounds of ammo. Breaching perimeter security is a no brainer; Vertical insertion, School Bus loaded with children, and terrorists, the methods are virtually endless.
Senior NCOs should be armed
The petition is wrong. There should be no law or policy to prohibit the carry of firearms, concealed or open. It’s a military facility. We know what the military does (and the stuff it “doesn’t do”). Everyone is trained with firearms in basic. Do firehouses not have fire extinguishers?
As a place of terrorist focus (mostly abroad), response time is critical. Handicapping the reactive efforts only puts more lives at risks.
Are they afraid of NDs that result in deaths or injuries? Some call them idiots; others pool cleaners.
Now, as some anti-government people will probably argue- do we want the military armed on US soil? Won’t that ease the trampling of citizen’s when BHO orders martial law, etc.? I doubt anyone in a military uniform will carry out that order. I understand the “not to reason why” but seriously, the military attacking it’s own citizens? We are far, far from that reality.
I gotta chime in on this one. As a platoon sergeant and infantryman the idea of privates running around with their own personal weapons scares the crap out of me.
If any of you have ever been in the military and got that 2AM call to go bail Private F#cknuts out of jail, you know what I’m talking about.
Now add a gun into the mix of beer, debauchery and general stupidity. It’s just a bad idea.
I have no problem allowing CCW for the Joes who live off post and having them lock it up in the 1SG’s office or arms room at the start of the duty day. But it’s just another headache for me to deal with.
“Sergeant… uh…uh… I can’t find my CCW gun but I think I had it with me at chow.”
Oh… hours of fun for me.
One jihadi with a pistol shot more than 30 people and killed 13 on a military base uncontested until the police showed up. Another psycho killed 12 with a pump shotgun and got run of the base for 30 minutes. A group of 5 trained people could have swept over that base and murdered anyone they wanted. Its perfectly possible one of your guys could be a psycho that would shoot his coworkers. Do you seriously think a piece of paper saying “No” would stop him? Or would him knowing almost every person on that base is packing? If you can’t trust your troops with a firearm I think you have bigger problems Sarge.
Create some kind of carry cert for on-base open carry, have rules about carrying, let anyone who quals play by the rules. End of Story.
When I was stationed in Germany I was on a kaserne in Frankfurt were we were locked down for 27 hours because some corporal had “misplaced” his M16. It was finally located, no details given, but I can just imagine the shit-storm that fell on that junior NCO and his superiors.
The military has ways to deal with firearms violations. I expect they are no less effective today than when I was in. I would not recommend concealed carry of private weapons, but rather open carry of military issued pistols. I would recommend that ANY NCO with no disciplinary record should be authorized to carry on post. I’m less liberal about letting all troops E4 and below carry and I think that armed NCOs would probably be sufficient. Officers should be allowed to carry open or concealed.
Bottom line, Sarge, what is to keep any of your nutjob junior enlisted from carrying off-post? Some rule or regulation? If they want to carry, and are willing to accept the risk in spite of the potential for punishment, they will carry.
The only rule I’m aware of is they couldn’t carry concealed off post if in uniform.
I’ve never seen any rule limiting carry off post in uniform before. Can you link to said reg?
Apparently our “Military Grade” soldiers are not to be trusted with even civilian grade weapons.
Notice I didn’t say “guns”.
Is part of the psycology that our soldiers need orders to act and that independant action would result in a breakdown of the chain of command?
I’m #3419.
Up to 3,465. Just need 96,535 more…
Everyone is talking about just those on active duty but what about those reservists called up, or personnel TDY, or as in my case a contractor and retired service members? Are you saying that because I no longer wear the uniform I would not be included in the authorization to carry on base? This despite the fact that I’ve qualified expert on M1911/9/4/16/249/60 and my favorite, M2 and now carry everywhere I’m legally allowed to carry? Or am I missing something?
Everyone one needs to remember it’s not just service members that work on these bases and who would prefer to have the ability to continue carrying onto base.
As for the good sergeant’s comments about worrying about the young f#€£nuts carrying on base, one, remember they still need to be 21, two, most will more likely continue blowing their money on booze and such. Think about it, how many that live off base have a carry permit? In a way it’s no different then the argument for allowing concealed carry on college campuses.
Just my two cents cause I’ve been wishing for quite a while for something to change that would allow me to carry on base and even into work.
I’m a former Marine and now serving in the Air Force. I won’t go into details, but I was recently involved in an incident surrounding this very issue. I’m a reservist. In the “real world” one of my jobs includes firearms instruction. I’m licensed to teach police officers, but most of my work focuses on teaching private citizens (Carry and Conceal License Courses). In any case, I’m well versed regarding this topic. I wrote a detailed letter to my representative’s office about arming military personnel on domestic installations. My representative’s “Chief Legislative Aid” contacted me today and we talked for about an hour. We had a very productive conversation. My concerns are being forward to my representative’s “Chief of Staff” in DC. All that being said, I think things may be moving in the right direction. Everyone, talk to your senators and representatives!
Also, the aide asked about my proposed solutions. I told her that I envisioned this process would be executed in phases.
Step 1 (SHORT TERM): As many of you have already said, would be to require that the military immediately honor and recognize carry and conceal licenses on military installations. Additionally, anyone with a civilian law enforcement commission (found in the reserves and guard) should be able to carry on a military installation. Lastly, anyone with a military handgun qualification requirement should be allowed to carry on bases, on or off duty. (MPs, Officers, NCOs, SNCOs, etc.)
Step 2 (MID-TERM): devise a federal CCW system for military personnel modeled after the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act (LEOSA) of 2004. This program would be open to members of all components (guard, reserve, active duty, retired, etc.) and maybe even DOD civilians. This program would be voluntary. Service members would bear the costs associated with qualification. An annual re-qualification would be required. It would require an initial firearms qualification similar to those found in police academies. (A condensed class could be done in 3-5 days.) This training could be administered via many channels. The military has the resources in house, although significant coordination would be required. The training could also be hosted by other federal agencies, FBI, DEA, etc. (I am working with contacts within the LE community to assemble a detailed action plan for execution of this system if adopted.) Upon completion of the written course, a service member would be awarded a CCW ID card that’s recognized in all civil jurisdictions and federal installations.
This sounds like a lot of stuff to do, but for this to work, universal training standards would have to be implemented and enforced. Every state has different standards for CCW/CHL training. The system I am proposing, which is modeled after currently existing law, would address these training disparities. Additionally, having stringent and universal standards would alleviate anticipated resistance from installation commanders concerning legal liabilities. The fact is ladies and gentleman, if we’re going to win this fight, we need support from senior military leadership. Also, such a program wouldn’t cost anything, or very little. That’s another key point.
Step 3 (LONG TERM): Raise military firearms training standards (at least in the Air Force). Ideally, every building on every military installation would be equipped with weapons racks. A majority, if not all, military personnel would be armed during the duty day. Doesn’t matter if it’s a pistol or rifle. When they get off work, they would have weapons lockers in their dorms/barracks. Or at the very least, do what the Marines do: have armories EVERYWHERE. Hell, my brother’s unit kept its weapons in the basement of his barracks. If SHTF, all he and his fellow Marines had to do was go down a couple of flights of stairs. This would require a significant culture change though.
There’s no one single solution for this problem, but I think a multi-faceted approach will work. We need to raise awareness and start making some noise. If I’ve missed something, let me know. We need to work together. If someone’s technically savvy, then let’s put a plan together to deploy these ideas on a public forum. (A FB page?) Again, let’s raise awareness and make some noise. We can win this fight. We’re just going to have to work for it!
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