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Holy crap…this teachers learning to use firearms thing is for real! Just like the NRA proposed! And Alexander Abad-Santos is freaking out over it! He read a Reuters report about 200 teachers in Utah signing up for classes and sees a very bad moon on the rise. “The apparent post-Newtown craze for gun-rights activists to transform teachers into gun-class students has arrived despite the fact that no armed civilian has killed a mass shooter in the past three decades.” Of course, the fact that all but one of those mass shooting happened in gun-free zones may have had something to do with that. Just a thought. But groups like the Utah Shooting Sports Council and the Buckeye Firearms Association aren’t waiting around for federal legislation. They’re training teachers and school personnel now. So while more parents are demanding armed defenders to protect their children, the process for making sure someone’s equipped to deal with an active shooter in schools is proceeding apace. OMG!

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  1. “Of course, the fact that all but one of those mass shooting happened in gun-free zones may have hadsomething to do with that.”

    Did you hear about the mass shooting at the gun show!? Neither did I.

    • Sadly, many of those are effectively gun-free zones, since we’re allowed to bring only unloaded guns and concealed carry is forbidden. I don’t know about the people with booths.

      • Concealed means CONCEALED. I’ve yet to be patted down at a show. Not that I’ve packed heat into one personally, but I know a guy…

      • Greg, every gun show I’ve been to has armed people at the doors controlling access to the venue. Thus, these gun shows are not gun free zones.

      • Yea true Greg. The last show I went to they zip tied my barrel and made sure I didnt have any ammo in my mag. It pi&&ed a lot of people off.

        Then again I was the only one in line that came forward as we got to the door. Integrity will be the death of me but at least I will die honest, I guess.

      • I think we will see a flurry of local legislation to allow teachers etc to be armed in class properly.
        If anything were to happen the teachers would have the backing of the DA, and local authorities so the feds could effectively kiss off…

      • please don’t call it a “gfz”, call it what it is. a “criminal protection zone.” and call ar’s “modern sporting rifles” or “msr”, because it sounds less scary. it is what the civilian ones truly are. the gun grabbers will have a harder time banning a modern sporting rifle than a assault rifle.

  2. We need to address these “gun free zones” before our admirers in the Middle East see an opportunity for publicity and martyrdom. The emotional reaction of our leaders is going to give them ideas.

  3. Jeebus, these anti’s really are mentally ill. Instead of arming good guys on school grounds what are their ideas? Harsh language on the gun free zone signs?

    Teachers, administrators, janitors and parent volunteers should be encouraged to carry on campus. Gun free zones have done nothing but invite massacres.

  4. Good on them….not to be picky, but what the heck are they doing in that pic, that’s a ton of people watching. I’d get stage fright getting up in front of that many people…

  5. Only in the minds and words of the anti-freedom mass media, and in certain specific very liberal geographic areas, are Americans outraged by the NRA’s suggestion that American children, who are not children of the elites, deserve armed protection too. It is possible that in the mid-term the NRA will be having the last laugh.

    • “…despite the fact that no armed civilian has killed a mass shooter in the past three decades.”

      Alexander Abad-Santos is a complete idiot. There are dozens of documented cases where shooters have been stopped by an armed citizen, BEFORE THEY HAD THE CHANCE TO BECOME A MASS SHOOTER. The armed citizen killed (or somehow stopped) the shooter after one or two kills, and thereby prevented several other deaths. This is the whole point of eliminating the gun-free zones – to allow armed citizens to stop the shooter as soon as possible. And the documented cases show that it does work.

      Since the evidence is right there in front of him, but he still can’t see it, Alexander Abad-Santos truly is a complete idiot.

  6. Is it really a surprise that the democrats are so opposed to this? If they put guns in schools and it works it proves that gun control is worthless. On top of that, if you protect kids with guns and if kids know that they grew up safe because a gun protected them then there would not be another gun control bill that would see the light of day. They would lose the vote for me because I can protect you from gun violence.

    But more than anything it is the battle of personal responsibility vs. governmental control. When people realize they don’t need the government as much as they thought they did they decide to stop paying the government as much. I am glad to see schools going out and saying we have a personal responsibility to these kids and we are not going to wait on the Feds to try some BS and leave us unprotected. I hope more continue go down this road.

    Sorry I did post this on another story as well but I thought it was worth saying again.

    • You mean additional government like hiring a gazillion new cops to put them in every school in the country, a la the NRA’s brilliant idea? That kind of additional government?

      • Oh thanks Swarf. Brilliant comment. You’ve convinced me. Now I’m anti-gun and am joining the gun grabbers. I’m turning in my firearms for destruction and will go back in time and vote for Obama in 2008 and 2012. Thank you so much for turning the previously dim bulb inside my head to a bright light.

        • You do what you want, but my post was more to illustrate that the NRA is as self-serving and as full of shit as anyone else.

          Honestly , though. If you’re going to destroy your guns on my account, why don’t you just give them to me? I can always use more.

  7. Is it a surprise that no concealed carry owner has ended a mass shooting? They say a mass shooting is compiled of more than 4 killed. Once these shooters get on their roll, and have killed that many, the authorities arrive at the gun free zone and do their thing. But the statistics also say that when a private gun owner is forced to get involved that the killings stop at 2. So the attempted mass shooting at the Clackamas mall doesn’t count as a mass shooting since the killing was stopped at 2. Could the grabbers cherry pick their data more?

  8. “despite the fact that no armed civilian has killed a mass shooter in the past three decades.”

    This statement is so full of crap haha… If someone shoots the attacker, then it never becomes a mass shooting. Like right before the Colorado theater shooting this old guy shoots 2 armed assailants in a very crowded and public store that could have been a mass shooting… but never was…

  9. Of course no armed civilian has killed or even stopped a mass shooter…because it’s not a mass shooting at the point that they’ve been stopped or killed.

  10. Here in Utah teachers have been allowed to conceal carry in schools for about 12 years now. It’s not a new thing or knee-jerk reaction to recent events. And in those 12 years there have been no teachers going crazy and shooting up the place. No students finding or getting ahold of teachers guns. No reported incidents of any kind. Believe it or not, allowing responsible adults to discreetly carry a firearm doesn’t result in wild west shoot-outs. Props to the Utah Shooting Sports Council for training new CCers, as well as helping existing carriers brush up and learn some new skills.

    • People don’t think twice about leaving the lives of 20-30 little ones with a teacher… and all of a sudden, you can’t trust a teacher with a tool that could potentially stop a madman from murdering them? Some folks are funny.

  11. Devils advocate time:

    O.K., let me be the one to point out a couple of CONCERNS that would need to be addressed to explain the REASONING for arming school staff. I am not against the idea but there are some things I think that need to be answered in peoples minds before staff is armed. The typical bumper sticker slogans and cherry picked stats from either side aren’t going to sway them.

    1. The police shooting example in New York does open the eyes to the fact that in close quarters, even with trained personnel, bystanders are in extreme danger of getting shot. Now imagine a gunfight in a classroom between someone who often doesn’t plan on leaving alive anyway and a teacher in the most high stress situation you can imagine who may have simply taken a few shooting classes at a range, in a class packed full of kids and you have a potential recipe for disaster.

    2. An argument between an armed teacher and an unruly student. Student closes on teacher resulting in a few possible outcomes …

    A. The student escalates aggression slowly or shows no signs of aggression until pouncing resulting in the teacher not drawing until too late. The gun is taken or a scuffle ensues.

    B. The teacher misreads, draws too soon, and kills/ wounds an unarmed student

    C. Any fluid situation where the teacher is unable to properly discern the right time to use deadly force. Veteran cops/ soldiers have a tough time with this, imagine a school teacher/ administrator who “took a couple of classes”.

    D. The teacher looses it and happens to have a gun (I have seen teachers snap on students and I am glad they weren’t able “intimidate” the student(s) back into submission.

    2. Now, address why it would be a bad idea to have a school police officer. The different classrooms can have a panic button and, although not instantaneous, TRAINED help could arrive pretty quick. This would also help situations from escalating due to personal conflict between teacher/ teacher, teacher/student, whatever.

    I think these are the things the silent majority thinks about, and frankly, it scares the crap out of them to arm the staff for these very reasons.

    P.S. How do you think the blonde in the above picture would respond with that hand cannon while bullets are coming the other way? I suspect she would empty the magazine with a low probability of hitting the intended target.

    Right now, conspiracies and government bashing aside, I tend to lean toward the school police officer solution. Like a ton of other people, however, I would like to hear RATIONAL arguments from either side.

    My $.02

    • To your point 1: I think if teachers want to carry, they should be able to, but no one should be forced to carry. People who choose to carry tend to go beyond “just taking a couple classes”. I know a couple people who carry, and they shoot often, take classes to keep fresh somewhat regularly, and take carrying their firearm very seriously. I would expect teachers who chose to carry to be roughly the same. Also, you neglect to think about a barricade situation, where the shooter is already active but police have not responded yet, and door has been locked, students hiding in corner/behind desk/in closet/etc. An armed teacher covering the door would stand a good chance of defending their room.

      To your point 2(really 3): Having an armed security guard/cop in the school would cut response time for a first responder tremendously. The Newtown incident took 20 mins for contact by the police to be made with the shooter. That could be cut by at least half if an armed guard was on the premises.

  12. These school administrators are so off their rockers that some schools do not permit teachers to have pocket knives or even a paring knife to cut up their apple at lunch. The Administrators just don’t trust teacher or student.

  13. I suspect the cost to have an armed and trained officer in a school for the remote chance he or she would be needed would be prohibitive. And, after a few years with no incidents it is likely their pay and position would be eliminated. However, I also think that any teacher that is allowed to carry should be very well trained, practice regularly and perhaps even have a psych evaluation before doing so. They should carry concealed and perhaps have their loaded firearm in a quickly accessible locked safe in their desks. Not sure how that last one would play out in real life though? But a concealed carry teacher or administrator is not a target if nobody knows they have a weapon and the cost for them is already in the budget. I doubt any sane person is going to shoot a student over an altercation unless their life is actually in danger, teachers included. If they are that afraid of their students they may also want to carry mace, a baton or something like that for their own safety in addition to a firearm.


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