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New York State Assembly member Jo Anne Simon (courtesy

TTAG reader MH writes:

NY Senate Bill Senate Bill A09340 — “To amend the penal law, in relation to the sale of ammunition for assault weapons” — is possibly the dumbest gun law ever proposed. Here’s the text . . .

Introduced  by M. of A. SIMON — read once and referred to the Committee on Codes

AN ACT to amend the penal law, in relation to the sale of ammunition for assault weapons


Amended by chapter 180 of the laws  of 1997,  is amended  to read  as follows:

Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to prevent, or interfere in any way with, the sale of ammunition for revolvers or pistols of any kind, or for rifles, shotguns,  or other arms, belonging or which may belong to any persons whether as sporting or hunting weapons or for the purpose of  protection to them in their homes, or, as they may go abroad; and manufacturers are authorized  to continue  to manufacture, and wholesalers and dealers to continue to deal in and freely to sell ammunition to all such persons for such purposes.



This act shall take effect immediately.

Did you follow that? New York State Assemblymember Jo Anne Simon of Brooklyn [above] is proposing a law which would regulate the sale of ammunition for what New York State defines as “assault weapons,” limiting your ability to purchase such ammo to 20 rounds every four months.

This is a rewrite of an earlier proposal, never submitted to the legislature, that would have put the same restrictions on more types of ammunition.

Let’s skip the obvious legal and constitutional problems, such as making the mere purchase of ammunition a felony, with this and cut right to the chase. Even if passed, this law is entirely unenforceable and beyond useless.

1. It relies on New York’s “assault weapon” registry to determine which weapons and gun owners have the ammo regulations applied to them. Perhaps MA Simon isn’t aware, but by some estimates, less than 10% of New Yorkers who owned “assault weapons” prior to the passage of the SAFE Act signed them up. That means hundreds of thousands of “assault weapon” owners buying all the ammo they want with no way to stop them. A thought which I’m sure would keep her up nights.

2. How does the dealer know the ammunition is being sold for a registered “assault weapon?” Will the dealers have access to the registry? Who’s setting that system up and paying for it? New York hasn’t even been able to get their ammunition purchase background check system working, so what sense does it make to add another layer to a system which does not exist?

3. What, pray tell, is this special ammunition that only works in “assault rifles?” Is MA Simon and her staff really so ignorant that they don’t understand that .223 Remington and 5.56x45mm are common rifle rounds that can be fired from a number of firearms which are not considered “assault rifles” under the SAFE Act? So even if a gun owner is flagged by a dealer, can he not just claim “hey, I’m buying all this for my Mini-14.”

What about a bolt action rifle in .223? The owner of such a gun could easily buy 500 rounds for that rifle then load them into an “assault weapon.” How would anyone know? And don’t get me started on .308, one of the most popular cartridges in the world that also, gasp, can be fired from an AR-10 or Springfield M1A. Or 7.62x39mm in a Saiga Sporter or Mini-30.

4. In New York, rifles properly modified are not considered “assault rifles” by the very law MA Simon amends in her proposal. They’re the same gun, only with no banned features. So the owner of that gun can buy all the 5.56 he or she wants?

5. Are there no gun stores in other states?

6. Let’s say a mass killer was planning on shooting up a soft target and owned a registered AR15. Would they abandon their plan because it suddenly became slightly harder get ammo for that one rifle, or just switch to another weapon? I’m guessing that being denied use of a registered AR15 or having to drive to Pennsylvania to buy gun food isn’t going to be a deal breaker.

There’s a couple of takeaways here.

First of all, as we gun-rights advocates constantly warn, passing gun control laws is like eating potato chips. One is never enough. The SAFE Act was supposed to be so all-encompassing and awesome that it would be the last word in gun-control. Until it wasn’t.

Second, not that this has a chance of passing, but if it did, it’s bad news for those who knuckled under and registered their guns. The state promised: “just go along with us, nothing bad is going to happen.” Well it seems that MA Simon didn’t get that memo because she has something very, very bad planned for you. And with New York State slowly turning more and more socialist, who knows if this crap might not be law one day.

Third, MA Simon’s original proposal to restrict purchases of many more types of ammunition was greeted with such a backlash that she had to pull back and reconsider. This is what she considers a compromise. That right there should terrify you.

Finally, is this the one? Is this the ultimate? Is this the dumbest gun law ever proposed? Sadly, probably not. For the supply of ignorance on the anti-gun side seems to be the only natural resource we have an infinite supply of.

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  1. The antis keep saying our warnings are a slippery slope fallacy, but then they turn around and prove us right at every chance.

    • This type of person is exactly why I own an AR-15. And why I’d be relieved if NYC and DC slid into the ocean.

      • I live in NJ, and I’m willing to let this state slide into the ocean as well.

        I need to move to a warmer, gun-friendly part of the US.

      • Just goes to show how frig’n treasonous, ignorant and out of touch with reality NY people and politicians are or they just trying to enforce the NWO agenda of a world dictatorship over the entire unarmed populace. Just read “THE SALE OF AMMUNITION FOR ASSAULT WEAPONS”. ASSAULT weapons are MACHINE GUNS and illegal n NY as well as dozens of other states so this law is a waste of time and money, New York traitor politicians are basically calling ammunition assault weapons because the same ammo for a machine gun is used in single shot, semi auto firearms and neither are ASSAULT WEAPONS. Soon they will consider any material used to manufacturer or built a firearm as a machine gun thus they no longer would be able to build anything in New York because the material would be considered a machine gun and that is the logic and mentality of stupid. Now Hellifornia will get pissed of that they are no longer the leader in stupid and will then push for an even more stupid law to up NY on stupid who will then also double triple down on stupid to try an pretend to be the leader in stupid and the game will continue while common sense smart people will leave those states leaving stupid and criminals who get more protection and rights than the victums.

      • You only live Twice, but a lot higher.

        Personally, I think it is insulting to helicopters and would rather propose high altitude, supersonic ejection with a ripped chute & no survival gear.

  2. If this law worked the way they want it to, it will bring an end to legal target shooting while not even inconveniencing criminals. It reveals that their true intent is to disarm law-abiding citizens — they really don’t care about criminals having guns, that’s just a smokescreen.

    • ^^This. What could possibly make her think for even one New York minute that a criminal or terrorist who can obtain that so-called “assault weapon” in the first place cannot also obtain an adequate supply of ammunition for it? Why in the hell isn’t there some sort of minimum IQ requirement to run for public office?

      In any case, this is just another example of election year grandstanding since the Progressives have all hung their hats on the idea that gun control will win them elections even when the bills they propose don’t have any more chance of passing than Ben Carson has of being POTUS.

    • Criminals having guns and committing crimes is job security for politicians and law enforcement, justification of the state “to keep us safe”

  3. Oh look, another “common sense” gun control measure that is pointless. If these measures actually achieved anything they would not need more, and CA and NY would be the safest places in the United States.

  4. I for one believe that Ms. Simon, because she’s obliviously dumber than a target backer, needs to be educated on just how stupid her proposed bill really is. For those inclined to just leave a gripe on this blog, you might consider sending your thoughts and comments directly to her at [email protected].

    Open Response to Ms. Simon:
    These is no such thing as “assault weapon” ammunition. Even you should realize that. What political game are you at? What political base or demograph are you playing too? Are you thinking that this is really constitutional? If so, then you’re really dumber than a target backer. Don’t know what a target backer is? Talk to your friends at the NRA or go stand down range at an convenient. nearby gun range.
    To your Bill NY Bill A09340, I respond
    Molon labe
    Respectfully submitted
    Lawful Gun Owner 1950

    • As a matter of fact there is no such thing as assault weapons. The SAFE ACT construct is just bunch of BS.

  5. Well I’m usually calm and can work my way through this with humor or God forbid logic, however today I just might get my first flame delete.

    Speaking of flame, perhaps a good soaking in some liquid while sling shoting through a flame hoop and quenched just before landing on razor wire in a loin cage would be the just response to her proposal.

  6. Is there a way for NY State to separate it self from NY City? I know it’s crazy but it seems to only way to protect the civil rights of the sane vs the insane in NY City.

    • It would be nice. Illinois to secede from Chicago, California to split into Libtardia and The California Republic of Friendly Gun People, etc etc and any other states controlled by urban areas that just don’t care what people in other parts of the state want.

    • That’s a recurring discussion point for those of us from western NY. The city provides tax revenue and prisoners to the rest of the state, and we provide the city its water. I live in PA now, and da Philthy and Yinzerland don’t dominate the statewide governance anywhere near the way NYC does in NY. Thankfully, Pennsyltucky still has some say in how things are run.

    • Western New York tends to be much more conservative than the rest of New York, or at least the Albany and NYC areas, and did in fact try to break away from New York and become a separate state. Unfortunately it didn’t work and another attempt won’t happen anytime soon. Also, Albany is well-aware of the possibility and thus actively works to undermine it I am sure.

      • Actually, some of the downstate weenies were threatening within the last year: “Since you don’t appreciate all our help, we’ll just secede!”

        To which upState overwhelmingly said: “Yes, please.”

        There’s even been a ~10 year business development exercise called “Unshackle upState.” Not terribly subtle what they think the issue is. (BTW, it is no accident that Gotham’s district administrative field office has been seeding any place that looks like success in upState with carpet-baggers from their blue-hands corps. Rensselaer is a decent tech development hub, and they have to put a state-funded “institute” there. Rochester nabs the national photonics institute – shocker, that – and the state has to get their fingers on the board of overseers: just enough $ kicked in to get a seat at the table, then they claim they are in charge. Etc.)

        FWIW, Washington state is the same. I’ve seen it. I’ll assume at least California is similar, although that’s from second-hand information vs. seeing with my own eyes.

        Then, they shut up. Sadly. So, again, in case it was unclear, yes, please stop inflicting help on us.

  7. Sounds reasonable and sensible as we really do need such badly needed legislation.
    On a more sane level, the bill raises more questions than providing any answers. This is a feature and not a bug.

  8. Geee… I might wager there are more bolt action rifles chambered for .308 than semi-auto “assault rifles”. Might be more bolt action true .223 varmint rifles than ARs as well.

  9. “Yes, I need 1,000 rounds of 5.56 for my bolt-action hunting rifle please.”

    I firmly believe politicians should be quizzed on every law they try to pass to see if they have a clue as to what they’re talking about.

  10. Once again, we need to establish a written test these ‘representatives’ need to pass before being allowed to legislate on topics. One should not be able to even try to do so without a BASIC literacy on the topic at hand.

    But idiocracy.

  11. Let’s say New York has some sort of registration scheme in place — for both firearm and ammunition purchases. Let’s also say that I have a “registered assault weapon” (whatever that is) and I want to buy truckloads of .223 Remington ammunition. No problem. I purchase a used Handi-Rifle in .223 Remington for $150 and then I can justify purchasing all the .223 ammunition that I want.

    This proposed law is about the most useless piece of legislation that I have ever seen.

  12. Isn’t 20 rounds every four months actually MORE than the NYPD used to provide for its officers’ annual handgun quals? Maybe she truly feels sorry for the law enforcement carevouts and just wants to be fair to the non-LEO citizens of the Empire State 🙂

    This reminds me of one of the Colorado legislators that sponsored the mag cap bill that thought they were disposable – shoot 30 rounds and throw the mag away. Ban high cap sales and voila, all the evil mags would be used up in a few months.

    Don’t want to hijack the thread but I believe they used to be given 50 rounds/year for practice and quals – didn’t they go all crazy and increase that to 100/year not long ago?

    • I’m active duty Air Force and I only get to shoot 90 rounds of 9mm every other year. This is sadly a better deal for them than for the military.

      • I’m active duty Air Force and I’ve fired a weapon exactly twice in seven years.

        • …guys, if you wanted to be infantry, you joined the wrong branch. The USAF measures ordnance in tons, not grains. 😉

  13. If only Hercules were available to clean the Augean Stables that is New York City! Of course the filth that comprises the politics of that pit could not be washed clean by a hundred years of the flow of the Hudson River.

  14. I would counter this legislation using their own logic. Part of the problem I’ve heard a few times is that they believe people with freedom to buy as much ammo as they want are not practicing enough to be competent with their firearms to use them. (Can you not get a drivers license without owning a car anywhere?). If they restrict it to ~5 rounds a month, I’m surely not going to be convinced anyone has enough practice even loading their gun, or having broken in the springs or any of the operation that smooths out the firearm and makes it more reliable.

    If we chose to believe she wants us all to be safer, I think she should have a law that says everyone gets ATLEAST 20 rounds free every few months, to ensure they are practicing and keeping their firearms in working order. Then you will know ‘ol blue isn’t rusting away, along with the owners skills because some damn Yankee tax or other law has made it too much trouble to stay on top of things.

    This is just another case of a law that should have had someone replace the word “ammo” with “pizza”, and see how it will make a world of difference in the fight of obesity in America. I guess folks might just have to make their own pizza if they can’t buy it… Uh oh, did I say too much?

  15. Ok, so the bill says that it is not intended to interfere with the sale of
    ammunition to non assault weapons, and also states that violation of the act
    is a class E felony.

    Does that mean that refusal to sell ammunition used in both non assault weapons
    and assault weapons, but which is intended for use in a non semiautomatic weapon,
    like maybe .223, would make the clerk a felon ?

    If it could be shown that the act itself interfered with someone acquiring ammo for
    a non assault weapon, would Ms. Simon become a felon ?

  16. I would like to propose a law that requires all elected officials within New York State be required to purchase a minimum of 1000 rounds of law enforcement grade ammunition per month and that they be required to prove by audit every year that they have all this ammunition on hand in their home or have donated it to the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

    I think this is a common sense gun law.These elected officials should be happy to provide this leadership within their community.

  17. Cough cough. Make my own ammo here. What about spent casings at the range? People in NY would be able to see those spent casings at the range. They would be able to pick them up.

    Also – only allowing 20 rounds every 4 months basically bans “practice” with your firearm.

  18. So again, they believe we don’t have enough “training” to properly use any firearm, but then they want to take away the ability to train with a firearm. Derptastic.

  19. Could these laws be to bolden the claim that states with “looser” gun laws are feeding the crime gun pipeline? Which would bring more evidence for federal bans and restrictions. Short term “foolishness” for long term gain? Or as an excuse to expand the assault weapons list to include items like the MIni-14/30, and sporter rifles.

  20. Things like this make it painfully obvious that so many politicians are empty headed puppets, manipulated by someone with an agenda.

    No one can be this dumb, and get elected without someone else pulling the strings.

    If not that, the lead paint chip eating epidemic is far far more widespread than previously thought.

  21. Your “Common sense gun legislation,” at work ladies and gentlemen.

    “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Why is this not enforced?? On one hand a state can use this to legalize marijuana, but they can ignore it when it comes to gun laws? Why are public servants allowed to pick and choose when the 10th amendment is a thing or not?

  22. That is what will be happening next if we will vote for Clinton, all country will be with these lows.

  23. And the follow on law.

    “Gun owners are not permitted to have more than one hand, to prevent them from using more than one firearm at a time”

  24. What if you own more than one registered “AW?” Can you buy 20 for each?

    The anti gunners mock us when we resist registration on the grounds it will lead to something worse. Simon makes the best argument against gun control ever. She proves the gun control crowd cannot be trusted.

  25. If this happens I’m starting a charity drive to give free ammo to any New Yorker who wants it.

  26. New York State Assemblymember Jo Anne Simon of Brooklyn is a post-menopausal, insular, batshit crazy ideologue completely unmoored from reality. Even if this is signed by the governor, the default condition of the People will revert to Irish Democracy, in other words, póg mo thóin. You can make all of the laws that you want but in the final analysis, We The People will decide what stands and what doesn’t.

  27. Brooklyn’s in da house! WTF? I guess the 1st and 2nd generations of immigrant populations; those who came from war torn European countries disarmed by fascist policies, are either dying off, or retired to Florida. How did Brooklyn become such a bleating, ovine class that they could elect the very thing their parents and grandparents came to America to escape?

  28. – The highest taxes in the nation
    – The most regulations of any state in the nation
    – The most restrictive gun laws in the nation
    – The highest unemployment in the nation

    Good Lord, you folks in NY state really have it all going on, don’t you?

  29. Just one more manifestation of the tyranny by bureaucracy of the Left.
    The technique is described by Jack, the tyrannical leader of the choir boys in “Lord of the Flies”, when the schoolboys gathered and were organizing their society:

    “We’ll have rules!” he cried excitedly. “LOTS OF RULES! Then when anyone breaks ’em–”
    “Doink!” (EMPHASIS ADDED)

  30. My first reaction was that obviously she thinks no one should actually practice with their guns, which is just a great idea for public safety.

    If she thinks, that is.

  31. What these legislators should be asked is: “Why?”. If the repsonse is “to save lives” then there are far more pressing issues. Gun deaths don’t even crack the top 10 in America. Getting them to admit that banning guns is the actual goal will be more difficult as these people have trouble with honesty. But if you do get one to say that out in public, then the response to them would be, “And that’s why we NEED guns”.

    Never mind the fundamental problem with blaming the actions of criminals and the mentally disturbed on an inanimate object, that’s a whole other level of stupid….

  32. Nitpick alert!

    The Ruger Mini 30 does not use .308/7.62×51 ammo. It uses 7.62×39, also known as AK ammo.

    Carry on.



    Hehe, sounds to me like if you didn’t register your “assault weapon”, this law wouldn’t apply to you.

  34. Attempting to remove Freedoms from those she swore an oath to protect and defend is a BREECH !!

    Violation of oath of office = Removal . ( The science IS Settled )

  35. Well, the “Make Target Practice Illegal Act” is just another attempt to effectively outlaw by ruse what they have been unable to outlaw through legislation or the courts. Every discussion of his “regulation” needs to start there. Out loud.

    – It’s just not enough rounds for target shooting, with the most popular target-shooting rounds in the US.

    – It’s just not enough rounds to build up the skill for ethical hunting.

    – And of course making something people like to do more difficult and only occasional kills the hobby.

    Those aren’t bugs, they are features. Those aren’t accidents, they are the point. So, I really think it’s kind of obnoxious. But at least we can call it what it really is:

    “The Choking off People’s Legal Hobby that’s Already Been Voted On and Adjudicated, but We’re Gonna Get Our Way anyhow, because We Don’t Like It, and We Don’t Like Them – act.”

    Yeah, somehow that doesn’t sound as good, does it?

  36. Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to prevent, or interfere in any way with, the sale of ammunition for revolvers or pistols of any kind, or for rifles, shotguns, or other arms, belonging or which may belong to any persons whether as sporting or hunting weapons or for the purpose of protection to them in their homes

    This states that I can purchase all the ammo I want for my AR, the most popular rifle in America,( dare we say “Common Household firearm” ? ) and I use it for sporting, hunting and defense.

    Therefore her bill is moot and as useless as she is.

  37. So let’s see – I’m good until 2024 with my 7.62X39 and somewhere north of the year 2100 with my 5.56mm. I’ll let you folks do the math. And don’t tell anybody that I can – OMG – MAKE MY OWN ammunition.

    During WW2, guerillas in the Philippines cut down brass curtain rods for bullets, filled cartridge cases with powder from dud Japanese bombs, and used strike anywhere match heads as primers. They built slam bang shotguns from black iron pipe and filled shells with home made black powder.

    Making things illegal won’t make them go away. Unfortunately that’s way too hard for the moonbats to understand.

  38. The NY Safe Act doesn’t just restrict ARs and AKs, it restricts firearms that take common pistol and shotgun rounds so, effectively, this legislation, depending on interpretation, could limit ALL ammunition purchases.

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