In our recent post Shannon Watts Looking at Run for Congress in Colorado CD-2 TTAG commentators got personal in their attacks on Ms. Watts, many of which were sexual and extremely demeaning. Just a quick reminder . . .
TTAG does not allow ad hominem attack on the website, its authors, fellow commentators and subjects of our articles — no matter how pithy. We do this because we strive to make this website accessible to people who may not share our views on the importance of American gun rights.
Many of our articles use rational thinking and statistical analysis to counter the antis’ anti-gun agitprop. We want these articles to appeal to reason so that people sitting on the firearms freedom fence can consider them without fear or favor.
Comments that attack anti-gunners on a personal level make this site — and you — look mean-spirited and irrational. You’re better than that. FWIW, more than 70 percent of our readers are college-educated or better.
Believe me (not to coin a phrase), I know that the antis deserve our scorn and contempt. But since its inception TTAG has tried to take the high road. So we delete ad hominem attacks in the comments section.
This policy is not open to debate. However, feel free to let loose in the comments below — as long as you don’t get out your flamethrowers.
“TTAG does not allow ad hominem attack on the website”…Fair enough, though I have seen posters call others “cunt”, and that seemed to be no issue.
I have to call BS on TTAG’s hypocrisy.
The photo you included in today’s article about Shannon is almost an ad hominem attack on the woman. You guys seem to have deliberately chosen a very unflattering photo. You insult the woman by including a goofy photo, and then tell everyone else not to disparage her.
Take the high road. Don’t take the low road, and then demand that we take the high road.
Now how do you know that that goofy picture isn’t the best one there is? Maybe she was in an accident or the delivery doctor got a little too aggressive with the tongs? I guess we’ll never know.
The photo included with this article is much nicer.
The photo with this article looks nicer, but is highly unflattering nonetheless.
That’s a former TTAG writer she’s posing with, and he was armed at the time.
And the picture was posted specifically to troll shifty Shannon with the fact that she had been standing next to an armed gun nut who hated everything she stood for and had not been harmed in any way. The walleyed wonder girl practically had an aneurysm when she found out.
It does still help make RF’s point, though, in that the Armed Intelligentsia’s representative remained armed, intelligent, and polite throughout.
Watts is simply not very photogenic.
And that scraggly ass beard just is sad.
Way Out West, you need to get an eye examination.
I agree. That photo they love to use- which, if not doctored\filtered is at least taken with a lens meant to misrepresent- is in poor taste and reflects poorly on the site.
That said, it’s a lot less bad than some of the comments that get written.
In the spirit of TTAG calling for a kinder gentler treatment of Ms. Watts, despite her near pathological need to denigrate myself, my family, and most of my friends, I shall list some good things about her. That way she can feel the love we all feel for her kind defense of the rights of our older and the weaker citizens who only want the tools necessary to defend themselves.
1. She chooses to live far from those I hold dear.
2. She doesn’t kick puppies or kittens (as far as I know).
3. She can easily raise a crowd of almost half a dozen to support her civic causes.
4. She has a far higher expense to success ratio than any Bloomberg supported organization.
Four was all I could manage, can anyone else help?
Is it flaming if it’s true?
“more than 70 percent of our readers are college-educated or better”
after quickly perusing the state of our illiberal college campuses, i’m left feeling a resounding “SO WHAT?”
“I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.” – Mark Twain
Great quote by Mark Twain.
Personally, I’ve always loved school, and likewise loved education. I also know that they aren’t the same thing.
That’s the “or better” part.
Yeah, I was offended for like a split-second before that caught me and brought me back. Chuckling now.
“There is no distinctly American criminal class – except Congress.” – Mark Twain
Most are college educated, but most are also older, too. So they took their degrees before the era of grade inflation and the student-loan-fueled, butts in seats business model that predominates college campuses today.
That said, most of what’s worth learning in this world can’t be taught in a classroom, anyway. So there is that.
I agree with you 110% when I was in high school in the early 80s I had a math teacher that used to always say oh you’ve got to go to college if you want to make money and be someone in this country. And I used to always get in arguments with him I’m like well what about the Trashmen and the guys that cut grass and the firemen and the policeman. I’m now a gunsmith and I do it part-time. I had a buddy a plumber friend and he told me about a customer of his who is a lawyer. He went over to fix his sink a leak or something and ended up charging the guy $135 for something that took him about 40 minutes to fix and replace the bad parts. The attorney asked my friend the plumber man that’s more than what I charge at my law office. My plumber friend replied well you could have learned a trade and then you’d be making over $130 an hour LOL instead of spending four years in college and accumulating a huge college debt and making a decent living afterwards and having to pay that huge debt back
The skilled trades are a great way to go (especially for a lot of young men).
College degrees are grossly overrated. Some degree programs are worthwhile, but sadly a lot of them are worthless. Many young people spend 4,5, or even 6 years of their lives getting deep into debt, and then come out with basically nothing to show for it. Sadly, many of these people go on to get more in debt, getting additional low value graduate degrees.
Not only does a college education often fail to provide real value, but it often breeds arrogance as well. Fools are irritating, but fools who think themselves wise are even more troublesome.
There is a massive college education/debt bubble! The cost of college continues to skyrocket, while the value of the degrees continues to decline.
Don’t get $100,000 in debt to get a degree in “Marxist thought, feminism, despair and bitterness”, just so you can get a job as a barista at Starbucks. Let me throw in a quick plug for Aaron Clarey’s book “Worthless: The Young Person’s Indispensable Guide to Choosing the Right Major”.
Don’t get me wrong. I love college. I spent nine years in the University, and earned three degrees (BS,MS,Doctorate) in the sciences. I loved every minute of it. Also, since I was in science, they paid me to do the Masters and Doctorate (Fellowship and Research/Teaching Assistantships). Back in the 90’s, I borrowed almost $20,000 for my undergraduate education. Paying it off was a pain in the butt (and took three years). It soured me on debt, and the only way I would attend graduate school was if I didn’t have to pay for it. Fortunately for me, it worked out that way.
Education is extremely valuable
Here’s the way the story is supposed to be told:
A plumber went to a lawyer’s home to fix his dripping faucet and ended up charging the guy $100 for something that took him about 10 minutes to fix.The attorney said, “That’s $600 dollars and hour! I’m a well-known and successful attorney and I don’t charge $600 dollars an hour!”
To which the plumber replied, “Neither did I when I was a well-known and successful attorney.”
I’ve got six years of college, two degrees neither of them in writing or English! But seriously, I never knew what the politics were of my teachers and I went to UVM in Burlington VT. Then again I went to school first for Business Admistration than macro economics. Before UVM I went to a community college and I had to take a liberal arts social sciences class the professor was a liberal, but not demeaning toward other students that didn’t share his view. He was pro abortion and social safety net. Times have changed universities for the worse.
There is a difference between educated and intelligent. Some of the most ignorant people I know have a four year degree in something. They think they are smart than they are and it drives me nuts! I know some really intelligent quick learners that think out of the box that never went to a traditional college.
I THOUGHT my response was just pithy enough to overcome the sexual innuendo but I strayed onto ad hominem island, mea culpa. I blame that silly photo of Shannon Watts that’s put up whenever her ad hominems overtake her good (haha) judgement.
Why would we call anti-gunners by any bad names? Just because we may in our heart of hearts believe that they are sons of whores and execrable bitches doesn’t mean that we should say so. No, that would be bad manners. We should simply scold them, preferably by shaking out forefinger (pointer, not tall man) in their proverbial faces and exclaiming “shame on you because you aren’t nice.”
Harsh, I know, but good taste demands no less.
Hey fellas have you heard of the First Amendment freedom of speech? Yes I agree some of the comments were in bad taste. But that doesn’t give you any right to be politically correct we have enough of this crap going on in our country right now nobody wants to say what they really mean and fear of upsetting someone give me a break. You have to be 18 years old to own a firearm to buy one in a store a rifle or a shotgun you should have to be 18 years old to participate in our talks which makes us all legal adults which means if we get a little racist or a little sexist it’s because we’ve had so much crap Jam down our throats by this Shannon Watts and her whole crew of morons. You don’t fight a war with harsh language or ping pong paddles we are at War right now with the liberal globalist of our country destroying the framework that has been in existence for over two hundred forty-five years. I saw the same thing happened in the 1960s during the Vietnam war with all these liberal progressives draft dodging pieces of garbage. We don’t need political correctness on this website or in our country. We need well-thought-out discussions on what we can do as gun owners and gun enthusiasts to protect the Second Amendment and our hobbies and our way of life. Nobody’s going to tell me how I should live my life I’m not a subject I’m a US citizen remember that.
But you guys printing this somewhat retraction statement is absolutely ridiculous you know Shannon’s PR people are going to pick up on this and they’re going to blast it all over the media. How one of the largest gun blogs in the world is pushing her way of thought or that we were too hard on her when I saw her personally in Orlando Florida outside the Pulse Nightclub dodging reporters unless they had a camera with them. Shannon Watts is a piece of garbage that if I stepped in it I would scrape it off the bottom of my shoe and put it in a waste receptacle. You fellows May agree that some of the comments made about mrs. Watts was or were a little abrasive. But that’s what happens when you have free people using their personal decisions right or wrong to leave a comment. That is the definition of freedom of speech maybe you guys should look it up. This is the only time in the last year that I’ve had an issue with one of your topics. I didn’t even comment on the Shannon Watts thing because she’s ridiculous and not even worth my time. And you defending her because she’s just a woman is racist she should be dealt the same blows by men and women alike. She’s an adult she put herself in out in front of the camera she’s going to take the Heat if she doesn’t like it get out from behind the camera and go be a mom like you’re supposed to be instead of a wannabe politician TV implemented bull crap story. Give me a break fellows come on really? we had a name for you guys in the military we used to call you Water Walkers. because you act like you can walk across water and you don’t get your feet wet comma holier than now give me a break fellas really.
“Congress shall pass no law…”
Doesn’t say “Bloggers shall allow keyboard commandos free reign.”
Otherwise, domains and hosting are cheap…
1. The First Amendment applies to government infringement… TTAG is not the government. Their house, their rules.
2. Avoiding personal attacks on someone because of their beliefs is not being politically correct… it’s being a mature adult.
Yeah I wish that everyone could be a mature adult but unfortunately in this country we have an issue with that. However when I was in Orlando where I grew up for 35 years before moving to St Petersburg Florida after getting out of the service. I was at Pulse Nightclub after the shooting just as an citizen. Wanting to find out what exactly happened and why it happened still reeling from the fact that I have a lot of friends in Orlando that are homosexual and was worried about their well-being when I couldn’t reach them on the phone so I drove to Orlando to find out the touch touch base with a couple of my friends to make sure they were okay cuz I know they like to go to that club. Me and my wife drove down the very next morning and spent three days down there with my father. I saw Shannon Watts talking about gun owners as the scourge of the United States period using very very poor language describing gun owners describing assault weapons described in the kinds of people that are gun nuts that have to own these weapons of war for almost an hour I listen to this goofball scream about how me and everyone like me needs to be put out of their misery. That is exactly what Shannon Watts said about all of us right to my face I was standing about 10 feet from where the camera crew was recording every statement. So if she can talk trash about us you’re going to tell it you’re going to tell us that we can’t talk trash about her give me a break man. I got a fire under my ass right now because I was there and I seen how she treats The Gun Owners of America. She thinks we’re a bunch of hillbilly Beck’s Woods no brain having horde to this country. She had some of the most unkind words phrases and downright cursing as she described all of us but then hear the guys at T tag want to stand up for her that is BS.
I, for one, am a proud hillbilly Beck’s Wood…
The internet is being crushed under the weight of everybody venting their nasty opinions in the least civil ways possible. Is it really asking so much to have just one place where people can discuss things without every conversation devolving into a third-grade shitfight?
I started noticing early last year how the quality of discourse on this website was declining, and it bugs me. I find myself avoiding reading some of the articles because I already know exactly what I’ll find in the comments. If RF wants to build his brand (as well as spread the word about firearms freedom), instead of being stuck in a niche ghetto, I think he’s making the right call in trying to clean the place up a little.
Avoiding personal attacks on someone because of their beliefs is not being politically correct
Confused much? the nannism that can’t “attack” for things NOT related to their progtard thoughts/ideas/beliefs.
Those that have chosen to be Idiots and morons are always fair game. The “we’re better than they are” is just so sophomoric bilge of the charlatan. The bimbo in question CHOSE to accept the money of a despicable SOB to parrot his anti-American anti-Constitution marxist statist BS. So fair game, all time, any reason. If the twit also BELIEVES her own nonsense then she is a moron.
Farago’s rules are in no way, shape or form stating that we have to be politically correct. He’s trying to stop unrelated attacks on people. For example:
Anti-gunner: Ban assault weapons!
Gun rights supporter: Shall not be infringed.
Anti-gunner: There’s no need for a 30 round high capacity clip for hunting deer.
Gun rights supporter: Yeah, well you’re ugly!
That’s a very basic and immature example of what he’s trying to stop from occurring here… and yes, it happens a lot.
“But that doesn’t give you any right to be politically correct. . . ” Yes, it does. The creators and editors of TTAG entirely have the right to police the comments on their website as they see fit, free from government intrusion.
I am happy to see the effort to keep the discussion focused on rational argument rather than trading insults. From what I’ve seen, there is no shortage of gun enthusiast websites where one can vent their vitriol about gun-grabbers and it will be welcome.
I’m reminded of an old Benny Hill gag. After making a snide remark to one of his foils the reply was, “Well! I’ve never been so insulted!” And Benny’s rejoinder, “Don’t get out much, do you?”
I suspect Shanon gets out plenty. No need for us to take up that burden and sully our dialogue.
And there is also the issue that the antis tend to hang out at pro gun sites and regularly bad mouth their own side, usually with considerable vitriol, and usually sex based, in order to make it APPEAR that our side is just as petty and infantile as they are.
So how does one combat that, other than delete the offenders posts, and then block them if they keep it up anyway?
It seem to me the only way, other than to just let the trolls have free rein, as so many other sites do.
Deciding which comments to allow and which to remove is entirely within TTAG’s rights as a private entity. First Amendment protections only apply to GOVERNMENT censorship of speech, not private entities.
Not sure when this understanding of the 1st came into popular thought but it is a terrible misreading/misunderstanding
You would think on a second amendment Gun Sight blog if you will that is named the truth about guns that a certain amount of tearing somebody a new ass should be expected. I believe all censorship is bad. If you have something to say say it if people don’t like it they’re going to let you know maybe that’ll help you to see from the other side or maybe see it their way sort of speak. Now I know there’s going to be someone on here that says God this guy has run on sentences no, because it happens to me all the time I do my best I lost my left well I lost part of my left hand my left eye 45% of the vision in my right eye and gained a pound and a half of shrap metal from an IED in Afghanistan. So please don’t comment on my English skills I guarantee you I am a literate person I just cannot see well enough to proofread everything and I have to rely on my auto-correct which sometimes as you know messes with all our phones. God Bless America and God bless each and everyone of you. The gun community are just like the anti-gun Community we’ve got good and we’ve got bad. I didn’t even comment on Shannon Watts in the first thing because soon as I saw her name I knew that this was going to be some stupid topic about some stupid woman who cares more about standing in front of a camera than actual the car she is representing and that is the truth about Shannon Watts. I wouldn’t cross the street to piss on her if she was on fire.
Two points, friend:
1) paragraphs are your friend
2) “I believe all censorship is bad” and “please don’t comment on my English” are incongruous statements.
When it comes to ‘censorship’ there’s a big difference between making a toothless request and deleting content. I’d say the first doesn’t even fall under censorship. The latter absolutely does, though that doesn’t mean it’s illegal of course.
This is a site that has decency rules. The moderators may set rules of engagement all they want and the First Amendment does not apply because you do not own the website. If you want to be able to say whatever you wish in whatever way you wish regarding any person you wish, then establish your own website that does not have rules of decency in place. FWIW, those decency rules are there so we do not look like the same type of people that most anti-gunners are. We are truly better than they are and we need to act like it.
Just playing devil’s advocate, but doesn’t this post prove that many pro gun folks aren’t really better than anti-gunners, as you’ve just proclaimed? The fact that they had to make a separate post calling out all of the idiots disparaging her is proof that many pro gunners aren’t any better than the antis. I’m embarrassed for us all.
You’re exactly right. There are rational, intelligent people on both sides of the debate…. and there are people who are not even close to that, whose words and actions do nothing but hurt their side’s credibility and image.
I see again confusion over the first amendment. You can speak to your heart’s desire. You can roar form the mountaintop. Let it loose and don’t stop until you are done.
With that said, their is no requirement that another’s pulpit can be used. There is no requirement that anyone listen. There is no mandate that another’s blog can be commandeered for your speech – or mine.
There is no proof that calling Ms. Watts every vile name in the book will change anyone’s mind. I find her positions to be unsupported and irrational. I am thankful every day that for the moment at least, I live in a country where she gets to speak her mind and I get to speak mine – even when no one will listen.
I suspect a significant percentage of TTAG posters are in the dark regarding the definition and application of the term “ad hominem”.
“Regarding the man”
In the context of an argument, attacking the man rather than the argument.
Again Benny Hill for clarification (or was it Dave Allen?) anyway, drunk man on a bus sitting next to a fat lady:
Lady, “You’re DRUNK!” (Logical and true observation)
Drunk, “You’re fat and ugly.” (ad hominem attack)
Lady, “You’re drunk!”
Drunk, “You’re fat and ugly.”
Lady, “I said, you are DRUNK!”
Drunk, “Yeah, but I’ll be sober in the morning.” (Ending the debate with logic)
FUNNY i have heard that joke but it was from Winston Churchill!!
Was Churchill and Benny Hill ever seen in the same place at the same time???
Anti-flaming policy is a bit of swiss cheese. We have seen a few appeals to limit or stop ad hominem commentary, but the amount of actual attacks outstrips blog master’s attempts to corral the beast. Is the effort worth the coin? Selectivity seems to mock the intent. Trying to keep comments inside the lines may be a hopeless cause. If TTAG does not delete every ad hominem comment, what is the value of deleting any?
‘Tis a puzzlement.
well, perhaps the importance lies in the declaration of intent and desire. if the editors here do not enjoy at least some of the raunchy crap that the elite commentators dredge up, it would surprise me.
official policy and all not withstanding.
Shannon Watts is one of the chief propagandists of the anti gun establishment. She lies and misrepresents facts to advance her goals. According to reports she is also extremely difficult to work with. I have no kind words for this woman, she is the enemy of the 2nd Amendment and all those who value it. You won’t be bringing her or those that follow her around to our side any time soon.
Oh, they’re already here. You may not see them post comments, but they’re here.
Dan I find it funny that all of a sudden post November many left leaning previously anti gun people suddenly feel the need to protect themselves from a perception of right wing extremist violence and the potential of a possible future “right wing” authoritarian Government. While I do see an opportunity to bring a few around to our side for good. However I also believe most of the new converts would happily turn in their AR-15’s and 30 round magazines should a government aligned with their political beliefs be voted into office and the feeling of “safety” returned to their lives.
I hope I am wrong, I would love to see guns become an issue both parties agree on but given how entrenched the anti gunners are in left leaning American politics I do not see this happening in my lifetime.
TTAG has been very good about allowing posters to exercise the 1st Amendment, even though as a private entity they are not required to do so. Other forums, not so much. As far as censoring ad hominem, the policy does seem to be selective/subjective here.
Strike that comment.
Especially in regards to he who shall remain nameless, mostly because I’m pretty sure he chills out searching the site for one of his 6 user IDs.
Then, I haven’t been around much lately, he could have more by now.
I don’t believe your understanding what we’re getting at here. The name of this website is the truth about guns not the politically correct version about guns. This website represents a group of people that are supporting a constitutional right. I don’t think when the Revolutionary War started that people stood up and said I think you’re being a little harsh on England I think maybe you shouldn’t be talking bad about England. Those people were called loyalist and they got their asses hung or kicked out of our country to go back to England with the rest of the subjects. We broke from England for one reason we wanted to be free and independent of a subservient government regime known as the king and queen of England. This website speaks for every man and woman that believes in the Constitution and the freedoms and privileges that piece of paper guarantees us. I lost quite a few friends over in Iraq and Afghanistan when serving myself we were fighting for each other but down in our hearts we were fighting for America and what America stood for Freedom end of story. I just think you coming out and asking all of us to be a little easier on Shannon Watts is like taking a dump in my mess kit. That’s a real good way to get more bloggers on to your website Warren the ones that made comments that they’re being too sexist or racist or just too politically incorrect. That’s unexcusable on this website and if it continues I won’t participate any longer and a lot of people won’t either guaranteed. Think about that one. You might be writing about trucks again Brothers.
Well . . . ., bye.
You should brush up on your reading comprehension skills. Comes in handy when making comments sometimes.
No one is asking anyone to “take it easy” on Shannon Watts. They are simply saying to stop with the ad hominem attacks, whether against Shannon in the article about her, other commenters in various other posts, the authors of those articles, etc.
“people sitting on the firearms freedom fence”
The firearms freedom fence is sharpened stockade with piked cast iron gates.
If you’re sitting on the fence, you need to press down much harder.
You forgot to say, “Please.”
The entire comment section of TTAG should have been zapped years ago. It is an echo-chamber cesspool that accomplishes nothing.
You’re not from here.
Actually…I have been here from day 1.
comment > content
no offense as some content has been remarkable and profound.
but a few in this section should be getting checks.
“but a few in this section should be getting checks.”
I agree. But my entreaties to RF and the gang go unanswered, or auto-returned for lack of known recipient. I would love to dump my day job and get on TTAG payroll.
“TTAG does not allow ad hominem attack on the website, its authors, fellow commentators and subjects of our articles — no matter how pithy. We do this because we strive to make this website accessible to people who may not share our views on the importance of American gun rights.”
Yet you seem to let people who make homophobic, racist and other offensive comments get a free pass while banning those who called these people out on their behavior.
“Many of our articles use rational thinking and statistical analysis to counter the antis’ anti-gun agitprop. We want these articles to appeal to reason so that people sitting on the firearms freedom fence can consider them without fear or favor.”
No you don’t, You’ve never posted anything FACTUAL or based in actual TRUTH. This website is the biggest perpetrator of debunked stats, corporate owned statistics, links to right-wing terror websites including virus infested ones disguised as “education” and your second to the fake news like breitbart.
You certainly are not fair or balance.
“Comments that attack anti-gunners on a personal level make this site — and you — look mean-spirited and irrational. You’re better than that. FWIW, more than 70 percent of our readers are college-educated or better.”
College educated?…I’ve both a PHD and masters degree from Yale and I make 5x the yearly income in a week than any of what you troglodytes make. You people are ironically the very thing you accuse people like me of doing while refusing to see that you’ve become your own antithesis.
“Believe me (not to coin a phrase), I know that the antis deserve our scorn and contempt. But since its inception TTAG has tried to take the high road. So we delete ad hominem attacks in the comments section.”
You’ve never take the moral high ground, Stop deluding yourself. You accuse anyone like me who posts well thought out reasonable posts and links to websites that DEBUNK every little thing you post as insults and delete or alter my posts to make me or anyone that opposes your fascism as “wrong”.
This policy is not open to debate. However, feel free to let loose in the comments below — as long as you don’t get out your flamethrowers.
Again, Stop deluding yourself, This will always remain debated, You nor any troglodyte has never beaten me or any freedom-loving American that values the constitution and the rights its grants us in a debate on this site. You people are just fascists that think your doing good while violating rights of Americans everyday.
“You nor any troglodyte has never beaten me or any freedom-loving American that values the constitution and the rights its grants us in a debate on this site. You people…”
Especially the ” You people …” part.
I doth suspect the pot is calling the kettle black.
Ad hominem much?
Taking the high road keeps me from calling you a loser.
Your diatribe makes that obvious.
BTW- One of my Big Ten professors once explained the educational acronyms:
BS, MS, PhD=
Piled high n Deep
Well. I guess we troglodytes have gotten OUR comeuppance, have we not? Frankly, I have to question why you see fit to stoop so low as to converse with us fascists. Perhaps it makes you feel superior. I, for one am going to my “safe space” and pull my “blankey” over my head, not to re-appear and face the wrath of your sesquipedalian tongue-lashing and invective and get my feelings hurt.
BTW, I think your diatribe just may qualify as an ad hominem attack.
I’m not entirely sure that ad hominem applies to attacks against a group, only an individual. But then my Latin is a little rusty these days.
“College educated?…I’ve both a PHD and masters degree from Yale and I make 5x the yearly income in a week than any of what you troglodytes make. You people are ironically the very thing you accuse people like me of doing while refusing to see that you’ve become your own antithesis.”
This is a perfect example of why you and your ilk lost the election. I hope you keep going with this elitism; it may cost you another four years.
When has TTAG ever deleted one of your posts? Where are the links to the right-wing terror websites? What you earn in a week is an indicator of what exactly? Every time I’ve heard someone bring up how much money they make into an argument has always meant that they’re losing said argument. Bringing that up is simply a frat boy, “you can’t arrest me, my daddy’s a lawyer” mentality which I guess came in handy at Yale…which for some reason you felt necessary to mention, although I’m not sure why. Oh and troglodyte, nice word. I saw you used it twice in your post…is that because your word of the day calendar doesn’t list synonyms?
I don’t normally feed the trolls but this one sounded like such a crybaby it was hard to pass up. Ha, Yale…
“I’ve both a PHD and masters degree from Yale and I make 5x the yearly income in a week than any of what you troglodytes make. ”
They apparently do not teach sentence structure at Yale.
His sentence and word choice scream “I am trying to sound smart.”
They do not scream “I am smart,” however.
“The Resistance” your comment was lame enough that I suspect that you are someone pretending to be Mike Bloomberg or Shannon Watts to make them look bad. Why else would the evil fascists that run this website allow it to stand?
“The Resistance”, if you are genuine and trying to resist something, you sure picked an ineffective way to do it. Marching around in a Guy Fawkes mask with a sign was a better idea.
“You nor any troglodyte has never beaten me or any freedom-loving American that values the constitution and the rights its grants us …”
You better go ask for a refund for all those Ivy League degrees because the United States Constitution does NOT grant rights to us. Rather, the U.S. Constitution codifies rights.
Since you used the word, What is Truth? Truth is not relative there is only one Truth and That is Jesus Christ is Lord.
By the way what in the world are you Resisting? if you feel like Freedom is not for mankind move out of here. if all you are going to do is complain about the American system that has allowed you to complain and grumble why do you even comment?
What a tool. The Yale school of welding maybe.
As a professional welder, I resent that.
And I can see how you would. My apologies sir.
You know what they say about assumptions! I know construction workers that started their own businesses bring in seven figures a year with no college. Just as the tech industry is filled with the same people that are intelligent that just can’t fit into the college box.
Well mr fancy pants is here!
Very odd. Most people who actually have them know they are written Ph.D. and MA/MS or master’s degree.
“homophobic” is NOT a real word Nancy.
Yale? Sorry you couldn’t get into a real school and learn a useful skill.
“It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man.” Matthew, 15:11
When you toss out personal insults and profanity, that says far more about your character than it does the object of your vitriol.
We are in an all out fight to protect gun rights and TTAG is more concerned about virtue signaling than winning. How about we win the fight first, then your ineffective preening will be more tolerable. If any of you wonder why we slowly lose, friends like TTAG are a very large part of the problem. Who do you bring to a fight, your loyal friend who wants to win or the backstaber who is very concerned about the rules and your behavior, never mind your opponents?
Belief that insults are going to win the fight seem about as well-founded as the belief that more gun restrictions will reduce violence.
One of our enemy’s choice tactics is to portray gun owners as a bunch of intolerant, hate-filled rabble who are too dangerous to be allowed to own dangerous weapons. Do gun owners posting abusive comments hinder or help the enemy’s effort?
Deplorable. You forgot that we’re deplorable.
I do not forget the effectiveness of that characterization, as well as “irredeemable”, in helping Sec. Clinton’s inevitable victory.
Awake sleeper, you are badly missing the point.
The fact is that I care not a whit about Shannon Watts or what others say about her. She is an active enemy, trying to strip me and those I love of our right to defend ourselves. I certainly will spend no time trying to police those attacking her, as far as I am concerned she is simply reaping.
“Do gun owners posting abusive comments hinder or help the enemy’s effort?”
You’re not going to convince them with “we aren’t like that”, “they are the real bad guys”, “once they realize we are the good guys”…gain thee a clue.
The left is beheading trump and having plays about his assassination…and you’re getting the vapors about this.
I think you are missing that much of their audience are people who do not feel strongly motivated one way or the other. They clearly see it as beneficial to portray gun owners as misogynists, homophobes, racists, etc. If they see that as beneficial to their cause, it strongly suggests that providing them evidence is helpful to them and harmful to us.
You might also consider the impression on women just getting into firearms if they see comment threads choked with misogynic slurs rather than reasoned arguments as to why Ms. Watts and her ilk are wrong.
If you have some reason why you think crude personal attacks are more effective than reasoned arguments in convincing the undecided or otherwise furthering the cause of gun rights, feel free to share.
I saw, but didn’t even read, let alone comment on, the Shannon article.
Isn’t she from St. Louis? The seat is in Colorado? There are only so many pithy ways to say carpetbagging %^*##&&÷&#& &<^÷^&,!, anyway, and I arrived late.
“Appeal to reason”, lol, do you believe your own BS? Are the ads plastered all over your site “appealing to reason”. Does the vast majority of marketing “appeal to reason”. What do people respond better to, rhetoric or reason?
Wow, Shannon Watts has got hands that would make Trump jealous. They’re YUGE ! ??
Robert, thanks for at least making the attempt to take the high road. TTAG isn’t perfect about what it lets go and what it doesn’t; but then nothing is.
Just wanted to say I appreciate the content of TTAG and the generally light hand you try to take otherwise regarding the comments section. I’m a fairly frequent poster, and appreciate the venue – which I don’t have to pay for or maintain – to express my thoughts and opinions.
To others above who seem unhappy, such as Joe R., Rufusdog and James Earl Hoffa, please feel free to start your own sites if you’re not happy with this one. Better to light a candle et cetera, you know. Let us know where to find them when you do.
By the way … I mean no sarcasm re that last paragraph. I heard far too much of the “well someone oughta…” when I lived in California. So when I see people apparently unhappy with their current state of affairs I encourage them to take steps themselves to change it, rather than just complain about the status quo.
Well in my opinion this website represents our Second Amendment and our entire Constitution. I know it is privately owned or blogs such as this. However have you looked at the left and see what they’re writing in their blogs and on Facebook? I’m not saying we should stoop that low to go out and decapitate a mannequin dressed and modeled like our president. But all I’m saying is what’s good for the goose is also good for the gander. I believe if we don’t get dirty and a little bit of bruised knuckles we will lose this fight. The global leftist media is pressing hard for a coup against our current president Trump. Things are getting worse by the day with these liberals and their BS stories about our president. You know when Obama got elected twice you didn’t see gun owners out in the streets screaming for the death of President Obama you didn’t see us at Gatherings cutting off mocmoc mannequin heads because we don’t act like morons. However the high road is a high walk it’s a long walk down an uneven surface. And we do need to stick to our moral values. However playing the devil’s advocate here if you do look at what they’re posting and what they’re doing and saying about gun-owning families women men the military it is absolutely ridiculous. In my opinion they should be labeled as traitors to the state and arrested like these groups black lives matters gays against guns and the whole Shannon Watts crew they need to spend some time Behind Bars if you don’t believe in the constitution of this country you can try to change it and if not I don’t want to hear you whining about it. Move out I’ll lead you to the closest border and give you a foot in your ass to help you over it after I take your freakin passport period Shannon Watts can rot in hell she is an absolute fake person that only cares about being put in front of a TV camera and being on the news she cares nothing about the people that she said she represents this is all a big boy for her to move into the senate race that’s all it is.
While I agree, we can articulate our disapproval of her and her types without low class distasteful insults.
There is no honor in war. There is no honorable war. There is no victory in honor, only victory in victory. If you are concerned about being honorable in war, you are not engaged in war. You are engaged in a police action.
You’re all over the place, Jimmy. First you say people who disagree with the Constitution should be locked up, and then in the next sentence you say they’re welcome to try to change it. You say we should stick to our moral values, but then intimate that you’re okay using the Left’s nasty tactics against them. Pick a lane, man.
Fine. Now when I see her face here I’ll call it her “disability”.
Does it make any difference if you just treat everyone like a kunt?
Ironic that the post states how TTAG is a source to be taken seriously, and that we should behave accordingly….and then you see all the ad content all over the page? Love the message, but god I hate the click bait crap.
Ads? What ads?
Oh wait… do you mean there are still people stuck living in the 20th century who are unaware of browser ad blockers? Wow.
I don’t see many ads on this site. You can make the same choice.
Seem to remember a posting from staff a year or so ago, where TTAG asked for ideas on funding the site. Did not see too many cheers for converting to pure subscription. If advertisements are too uncivil, and subscription is a non-starter, how else would one propose the site be operated?
And yet my list of ad hominem insults made it through the civility filter… Maybe it was the alliteration. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Hey pg2 try to read one of my other comment sir. I explain the fact that I did five and a half years in Iraq and Afghanistan two and a half years in Afghanistan are Humvee hit an IED. This explosion was so intense that it blew my left eye out of my skull and left it dangling on my cheek. The explosion pushed sand through my goggles that I was wearing in the turrent behind a 50 caliber Ma deuce a 3. I lost three fingers on my left hand tore both rotator cuffs in my shoulders and got 2nd and 3rd degree burns on my legs and on my waist. Not to mention a pound and a half of shrap metal that they couldn’t remove that I carry around with me to this day. I use voice text to help me participate in the comment section. I also lost 45% of my vision in my right eye after 27 surgeries. So I Emma College educated person and I have a high school diploma and my GPA was 3.0 through high school and college. What I’m getting at is it’s hard for me sometimes to proofread and for some reason my older phone does not recognize any punctuation other than I. I wish I could afford to buy a new phone but my disability and my retirement from the military doesn’t pay me enough money to enjoy extras like that. I have to pay out of my own pocket for specialized services from specialist doctors that the VA won’t cover. Not to mention travel halfway across the State of Florida to get to my eye doctor retinal specialist that the military and the VA do not cover. This is not an excuse this is just information for you and everyone else that has a problem with my English and my punctuation. If it’s too hard for you guys to get through it please just skip it and go on to the next poster. Thank you very much God bless.
Did you get the left eye back in? Hell of a story!
Damn. That’s some crazy sh!t.
I lost my neighbor and childhood friend to a an IED/TBI. He sustained a TBI in iraq from and IED and was just never the same mentally. For some reason he got hooked on some drugs when he got back. He always knew better before, and that was very much out of character for him, but again, he wasn’t and couldn’t think properly. He ended up accidentally ODing. This was shortly after his return and recovery (somewhat) from the TBI. Sad.
Let me/us know if you need anything.
It IS an excuse. And, it is probably the best, most acceptable excuse I’ve ever heard.
We ARE mean spirited and irrational
“OMG! Some of them were sexual in nature!” Yeah, but having a completely sexually-themed guest post about male body-part sizes is totes cool.
Well… Shannon is really hot. Smokin hot. But… all that dissolves away once a person sees the personality and leftist/statist mindset.
It may seem hypocritical on the surface, but the intention is not to provide anti-gun groups ammunition to use against us. Some random TTAG penis post isn’t going to get the same attention by the anti-gun people.
Should have been obvious that the penis size article was a parody pointing out the flawed sort of flawed methodology used by “gun safety researchers” to fit the data to their prejudiced conclusions. Even the claim of NH being #1 was deflated in the comments.
So, if i say she smells like a dumpster of week old tuna, thats ok, but if i say, because of her views on gun rights, she smells like a dumpster of week old tuna, than thats not allowed?
While I perused the post about the Shannon, I did not leave a reply since I really don’t think or care much about her.
I do think you (Mr. Farago) just made more work for yourself (and I guess your staff) with this post.
Kind of like a “dare” to a bunch of people that have some degree of anonymity to post what they like.
And then you have to hunt down all the “bad” stuff and replace with FLAME DELETED.
But…It will probably get more people to post.
I try to refrain from posting anything I wouldn’t say to someone directly.
You know when you guys started this website I had talk with Tyler a couple of times on the phone. Back then you had no advertising no worries about saying something that would be censored. Boy The Winds of time change everything don’t they. Pure hypocrisy.
How many times can you whine about the same subject on this page? This is NOT censorship by any stretch of the imagination, and using the word “censored” shows that you totally and completely don’t get it.
It’s been explained to you already – if YOU want to say whatever you want about her, then YOU are free to start your own blog/website and bitch about her until you’re blue in the face. What you CANNOT do is ignore or disobey the rules on someone else’s property, such as this site, once they’ve politely asked you not to.
Their site, their rules. If you don’t like that, you’re free to leave. No hypocrisy whatsoever.
I’m not surprised. I’ve noticed the general tendency of many folks on this site to attack people that don’t follow the mob mentality; just as the liberal progressives do. This post proves that many pro-gun folks are neither better nor worse than anti-gun folks, they just have different beliefs; but are just as capable of being nasty and mean just the same. Hypocrites. It’s one of the main reasons I don’t come to this site as much as I used to.
I’d be more impressed with the tough talk against your own readership, who provides your income, if you hadn’t already expressed your willingness to be a total doormat for those who hate you.
Come on Lucas. Robert just doesn’t want his readers words used against us. He don’t want to try to defend ridicule, lone wolf sniper fantasies, or really tasteless insults that the other side would seek to use against us.
You keep saying no Ad Hominem attacks. An Ad Hominem is where you attack the person, not their argument. So, to call someone a stupid cunt while pointing out why their argument fails isn’t an Ad Hominem attack. I’m sure some of us are guilty of that, but the majority address the arguments…and call the person stupid. That’s perfectly valid in my eyes.
Well, I may be out in left field on this one but it seems to me that if I’d be willing to shoot someone who would forcibly take away my rights, calling the little lady who would send the Gestapo to my house a bad name is not really that big of a deal.
I understand the high road argument and adults should be able to moderate their emotions to a point. We’re not talking about returning physical violence in kind – it was just a story about Shannon.
Shannon’s background is marketing and marketing is a more socially acceptable term for manipulation. Her business is manipulation, which is not an issue since you understand what you are dealing with.
If Shannon is such a lightning rod for controversy why can’t she be dealt with the old fashioned way? Ignore her. Don’t debate the merits of anything she says or does. Don’t comment on any stories about her. Make it your goal to leave ZERO comments on TTAG for every story Robert posts about Shannon. Let her go on about her way as if she does not exist.
There are plenty of other subjects on TTAG that can be discussed. I know I could easily live the rest of my life not wondering a thing about Shannon Watts. Give it a try.
I agree with Robert. Might be better to keep your lone wolf sniper fantasies to a minimum. Keep the conversation civil and intelligent. Unless you are actually going to put into motion your lone wolf sniper fantasies (which we all know you won’t), it would probably be better to change hearts and minds rather than slap on ridicule, tasteless insults, and lone wolf fantasies.
So I read a bunch of posts and they were HILARIOUS! Basically, they boil down to:
I hate TTAG, INSERT OUTRAGE, OUTRAGE, OUTRAGE HERE. I want to insult and ridicule! How dare you call me out on it! OUTRAGE. We pay your salary, you guys are hypocrites, OUTRAGE OUTRAGE.
Robert. When Sarah Tipton made her statement about how she wasn’t going to vote in the November elections I told her in the comments section of her post that I would not read or reply to any more of her posts.
A couple of days ago I made a snide remark on the post about kirsten what’s her face from hollywood and you deleted it. Now this. Fine. It’s your site.
shannon and kapo bloomberg and the hollywood ditzes would happily load you and yours on trains for the camps. But we mustn’t risk hurting their feelings or appearing rude.
Fine. It’s you house, your rules. But as I said to Sarah. I will no longer click onto or comment on any post concerning these folk.
Until the rules are changed and announced so.
So you are upset that you need to drop some tasteless ridicule and can’t or what? Robert just wants people to keep it on the level. Preferably the top level or at least somewhere in the middle:
Like my post above, he doesn’t want us giving them ammunition to use against us.
Ammunition? These folks are coming for us regardless. All gun deaths can stop tomorrow and they’d still be after us.
They are a direct threat to the peace and security of my family. If anything, I think I’ve been too easy on them.
jwm, you are 100% correct.
Ok. I’ll agree with all of that. But how is distasteful name calling going to help the situation?
It’s using their own tactics against them.
But it’s okay to publish stories about and celebrate suicide?
Yeah, maybe someone will go back through that article to see if there were any ad hominem comments or flames that made it through. Site owner makes the rules, as it should be. Site owner also has the prerogative to enforce them inconsistently.
Regardless of any such inconsistency, I like the site and learn a great deal. I just have to keep points like yours in mind as I’m perusing. imho, In the long run, such inconsistency will be harmful to the site and the cause.
The main problem with the consistency of our comments policing is that we don’t have sufficient manpower to read them all. We post some 14 times a day, having published some 32,172 articles in the last eight years. Not to mention 1,543,161 comments.
I get that. As someone who employs 600 people, I can sympathize with the difficulties of enforcing policy. Regardless of your resources, something will always get through and there will always be someone harping about it. I suspect there is some threshold of things getting through which, when exceeded, will have noticeably deleterious results. If this is the case, the quantity ‘getting through’ is an important measure and the % of success is measured against the stated goal of “TTAG does not allow ad hominem attack…”. Given your numbers above, I suspect the resources are not available, to even closely approximate “does not allow”. Making, and especially repeatedly drawing attention to, the lack of correspondence between ‘saying’ and ‘doing’ (saying it is not allowed, but allowing it) almost inevitably leads to problems. Enough rambling on my part.
Thanks for the numbers, and thanks for the site. I read it daily and, in my opinion, no other site comes close to what you have, even with the inconsistencies.
“…we don’t have sufficient manpower to read them all.”
Any inducements to attract assistance in this area?
600 people doing what? I need a job.
SouthAl is in poultry. Getting all the hens to move in the same direction is a problem.
Rule is spot on. Let’s keep it civil. Good on you guys and, frankly, I wish you’d take this position more often.
I just came to say I didn’t want to waste my valuable time commenting on the previous Shannon Watts story.
This tact seems to follow along the lines that the majority Republicans use to gain favor with the Democrats…..”let’s be nice and show that we’re not the meanies that they think that we are. Maybe they’ll even like us if we give them some legislation”. This is just friggin’ stupid and TTAG should know better.
Maybe TTAG can be for ‘universal background checks” and closing the “gunshow loophole” so that Shannon The Sandwich Maker will like you. And certainly, once she gets those to things, there’s nothing else that she and her ilk will want for further anti-gun legislation.
Exactly. Thank you.
I love how the Right consistently acquiesces to the standards of behavior dictated by the Left. Even though they themselves have NO standards.
I think Shannon Watts has a very tidy face, which is a very kind thing to say.
When a journalist/etc throws around BS terms such as “ad hominem” who is supposed to be impressed? Some enlightened latte swilling, brie chewing eurowussies?
bah humbug. American-American
Is it ad hominem when simply quoting them makes them look bad?
Bolder is locally described as 18 square miles surrounded by reality.
She worked flacking for Monsanto. She is just a face for hire.
sicne she doesnt deal in facts and figures, but empotive anti fact fake news, and is atacking a civil right i can see people getting nastly in response.
The problem is the gun control lobby pretends to be a movement (no more than 100 dues paying mebmers even belong to Watt’s “group” as far as i can tell from filings), uses emotions and is attacking basic consitutional fredoms.
She is an extremist and fascist who is advocating tearing up the bill of rights so only criminals are armed. That makes her an enemy of freedom.
I agree it is wrong for anyone to go ad hominem against her, but she is a reprehasible person
Having a College Education does not necessarily mean that a person has the prerequisite brain functions useful in a positive discourse in the matter at hand!
Statement that 70% of readers have a college background is kind of Elitist,
Most of the reason is the prevention of Law suits! which can get nasty even though the person talked about is an Anti-American bought by the biggest sugar daddy, equating with radical Islam!
“Statement that 70% of readers have a college background is kind of Elitist,”
Actually, no. It is a reminder that the majority here should have a more robust vocabulary, reasoning skills, and the ability to express themselves in terms not slathered in gutter language. “F/U, and the horse you rode in on” type comments are not indicative of the quality of discourse that should accompany someone who endured post-high school educations.
You’ll pardon me if I continue to use my FIRST Amendment rights to point out the hypocrisy and stupidity of the left as they attack my Second Amendment rights.
TTAG is both woefully and willfully ignorant of levels of force doctrine. A verbal conflict is no different than a physical one. We all understand (or should) that the person who remains one level or more of force behind an attacker is at a disadvantage.
Why insist that in the verbal and written smash and bash that is a rhetorical fight that we remain behind those who attack and vilify us? That makes no sense. In gutter-fighting parlance, the man who won’t kick someone in the pills is at a distinct disadvantage against the man who WILL.
I’ll continue to speak as I choose. Should TTAG practice censorship of the manner that Facebook does, I’ll simply go elsewhere. These are MY words and YOU don’t get to choose them.
Well…buh, buh, buh, bye.
Analysis is dependent on one’s definition of forcefulness. Vulgarity may be more forceful in provoking a reaction, but for many readers is far less forceful in persuasiveness.
I am not interested in persuading anyone of anything. I am not interested in ANY discussion on ANY topic that includes the reduction or elimination of my RIGHTS. I will not listen to anti-gun rhetoric. I will not engage them. If they attack me with their absurdities they will be met with a LEVEL OF FORCE COMMENSURATE WITH THE LEVEL OF FORCE THEY DEPLOY TOWARDS ME.
Profanity is met with profanity. Insult with insult. I don’t have the time or inclination to waste my finite seconds on this earth engaging in dipshittery with dipshits. Anti-gun whackjobs are unhinged and stupid at best, controlling and ignorant at worst. I am interested in discussion with them not at all.
“I am interested in discussion with them not at all.”
Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello? Echo.
“A verbal conflict is no different than a physical one.”
Here’s a clue as to why they are *very* different from each other.
One can involve the use of an emergency room and a team of physicians, the other doesn’t.
You do realize that’s an Antifa tactic to stifle free speech, by claiming a brick caving in your skull is a perfectly rational reaction to hearing a point of view they deem ‘hate speech’…