New Zealand Aims Low in ‘Buy Back’ Expectations

Nick Perry/AP.

So, New Zealand has a quarter-million gun owners with, by most estimates, upwards of two million guns. The government there recently banned most semi-autos following the Christchurch massacre.  And now, a local police superintendent describes himself as “ecstatic” that 150 gun owners turned in 224 guns.

From NPR:

New Zealand’s first gun buyback in the wake of the Christchurch shooting attracted more than 150 gun owners on Saturday, according to law enforcement officials.

The buyback, which took place in Christchurch, is the first of more than 250 planned nationwide this year.

Gun owners turned in 224 recently-banned semiautomatic weapons and more than 200 banned gun parts, receiving a total of NZ $433,682, or nearly $300,000, said Mike Johnson, police commander for the Canterbury Region, which includes the city of Christchurch.

Johnson said he was “ecstatic” with the turnout, which he said was strong despite concerns from local gun rights groups that gun owners participating in the buyback might be demonized.

Simple math suggests that if every confiscation event of the 250 scheduled netted the same number of guns, that totals a mere 56,000. Officials in Kiwiland don’t know how many of the up to two million guns in private hands there are now illegal. However, owners must surrender the prohibited ones before Christmas or face prison time.

Of course, the fact that the overwhelming majority of these gun owners have no intention of surrendering their guns should give the Kiwi government cause for concern.

Because when democracy turns to tyranny, gun owners still get a vote.

comments

  1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    I support gun confiscation in the United States just like this one. Guns are not needed in this country. If we welcome all immigrants violence will disappear. Trust me. I voted for Bernie.

    1. avatar California Richard says:

      Before anybody goes off the deep end, I’m pretty sure he forgot the /sarc/ tag on his comment.

      1. avatar Jericho says:

        No. He’s an anti-gun troll.

        1. avatar BigNick says:

          No. He’s an anti liberal troll. I’m a liberal gun owner. His posts are trying to rile up conservatives.

        2. avatar barnbwt says:

          I think he’s just bored & lonely. He used to at least try to be interesting, now he just says controversial, contradictory things to get a reaction. Weaksauce.

        3. avatar OBOB says:

          you voted for Bernie ‘Panders” in the presidential election?

          you do know he was not running at the time?

          ohh and if you want MORE “Immigrants” (LIB code for illegal aliens) then you pay, house and care for them..I am not going to!

        4. avatar D.T.O.M. says:

          @ Nick says; “He’s an anti liberal troll. I’m a liberal gun owner. His posts are trying to rile up conservatives.”

          How is he anti-liberal and riling up conservatives? By speaking the truth of what leftist have planned for gun owners in the U.S.? It is now well established this is their short term goal.

          You call yourself a liberal gun owner, OK, then to give a greater prospective, would you tell us who you have supported for president and who you currently support?

    2. avatar Jericho says:

      Thank you for reminding us all we need more guns and ammo.

    3. avatar strych9 says:

      The stylistic mismatch between this post and Vlad’s normal style suggests that the poster is not actually Vlad. Unless Vlad has taken a page from battle rapping and switched up his style entirely.

      Probably a hijack. Happened to me a couple years ago when someone posted a bunch of racist shit under my name but was too stupid to realize that I intentionally don’t capitalize any letters in my handle. Strych9 was an obvious hijack/troll called out immediately by regulars.

      I’d suggest this is the same thing. I may disagree with nearly everything Vlad says but I highly doubt that the poster here is the real Vlad.

      1. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

        It’s Pg2. He hijacked both my username and Vlad’s earlier today in a separate comment section. He apparently thinks that users Chris, Geoff, and I are all the same person due to his delusional paranoia, so he’s now acting like a 12-yr-old and sowing discord by impersonating others and blaming everyone else. But you’re right…the writing style above doesn’t seem to be from (the true) Vlad Tepes.

        1. avatar Ing says:

          It is a very accurate summary of Vlad Tepid’s thinking, however.

      2. avatar Jericho says:

        It is much less verbose than normal. You’re probably correct.

      3. avatar barnbwt says:

        Can’t be pg2, he didn’t mention vaccines…

        1. avatar Geoff "Guns. Lots of guns." PR says:

          “Can’t be pg2, he didn’t mention vaccines…”

          No fucking shit.

          Barn, thanks for that one, it was the first burst-out loud belly laugh for me since I bounced off that woman’s windshield last December.

          (And as it ends up, she’s financing my new gun purchases. A very pleasant surprise… 😉 )

          As the old 70’s commercial went, “Thanks, I needed that!” :

      4. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

        Not that I think I am worthy of a hijackers attention, but If you ever see me post anything anti gun, pro vax, or pro government in general you can bet it isn’t me.

    4. avatar Leighton Cavendish says:

      And he actually thinks that is true.
      Imagine the USA with about 2B people from all over the world…
      Yeah…shithole would be a couple steps up at that point…

    5. avatar Mark says:

      Your a loser

      1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

        Your what is a loser?

    6. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

      I am the real Vlad Tepes and my mommy says I am a special princess snowflake so you all have to do what I say. My mommy wears a red shirt and is more hysterical than your mommy but she still wont let me wear my big girl panties. I hate my mommy.

    7. avatar Aaron Walker says:

      I just think this person has be drinking too many “SOY-infused beverages”. Causing low sperm count, and causing that person to become a “SOY Beta-Male!” Person may enjoy watching MSNBC, CNN, and engage in Cuck-holding…

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        If someone is truly cuck-holding then they’re probably pretty jacked and therefore probably not a beta male.

        Especially these days with all the fatties running… er, waddling, around.

    8. I certainly believe there’s a strong correlation been being SJW SHILLing and the excessive ingestion of “Soy-infused beverages.”

    9. avatar 16V says:

      Good golly. Are you guys still falling for the current handle of “2A SUX”?

      The only thing he’s fishing for is something approaching a well crafted argument. He’s a good guy, with far more patience than I’ll ever have. I’ve actually engaged him, he’s said it all publicly.

      “Vlad the Impaler”. No alarm bells? No ideas? C’mon guys..

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. Lots of guns." PR says:

        The two have a *completely* different style.

        I *seriously* doubt they are one and the same…

    10. avatar frank speak says:

      the only reason this guy posts in here is to push your buttons…obviously an infiltrating troll seeking to elicit a response….

  2. avatar Hank says:

    I wouldn’t be so thrilled. This is NZ, not the US. Those numbers actually seem pretty adequate for semi auto ownership in a country like NZ. If those were US numbers, I’d agree with you. Everybody and their mama has a bucket full of semi autos here. But I feel most of those 2 million guns in NZ are probably still legal non semi auto firearms. Now, obviously I don’t have any hard data so feel free to dispute me, but I just don’t see a thriving, semi auto owning, gun rights culture in NZ. I think those numbers actually do tell that the populous is submitting and the confiscation is going as planned. Again, I would hope that I’m wrong.

    1. avatar California Richard says:

      No, I don’t think you’re wrong. It’s a nation of subjects who don’t have a history of rising up against their benevolent overlords…. The Lords giveth rights, the Lords taketh away. And the subjects obey.

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        You’re both wrong. 99% of my info is from VOX, Salon, or MSNBC and they say gun confiscation will work. I know what I’m talking about. I’m an ex-civil servant who worked in a Federal building. I’M NOT INSANE. My Social Security check is bigger than yours. Can you do better? I admit that being white gave me an advantage in life. Can you do better?

        1. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

          Nice try, Pg2, but your comment above (as you hijacked Vlad’s name) is practically identical to the one you just posted earlier today under this other article (see bottom of comment section):

          https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/america-has-three-wildly-different-gun-cultures/

        2. avatar barnbwt says:

          Or could it be Guesty was impersonating pg2..? *cue theramond music

        3. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

          Actually, barnbwt, I’m seriously considering ditching this username and starting over with a new one, since Pg2 has compromised it, as well as a few others it seems.

          Best way to kill a troll is to take away its spotlight and let it die alone under the bridge.

        4. avatar OBOB says:

          “BLAAAA the IMPOTENT”

          you do know that VOX (sucks coX) and MSNBC both said 100% that Hitlery would win 2016?

          She or it did not win the 2016 race…

        5. avatar California Richard says:

          I don’t know… I read Vlad’s stuff and it’s so dripping with sarcasm that it’s genuinely funny. I think he’s inadvertently trolling you guys while intentionally trying to troll whacko leftists.

    2. avatar Geoff "Guns. Lots of guns." PR says:

      “Now, obviously I don’t have any hard data so feel free to dispute me, but I just don’t see a thriving, semi auto owning, gun rights culture in NZ.”

      The fastest way to motivate someone to get something is to tell them they cannot have it. The more ‘forbidden’ it is, the more it will be wanted.

      It’s possible this could be the start of a gun rights culture in NZ…

    3. avatar Southern Cross says:

      Like Australia in the 1990s, ownership of self-loading rifles tended to be within niche areas. Those who collected or used such rifles in various disciplines of target shooting. Those who used them for vermin culling. And those who had one or two for the interest.

      Compared to the USA, the populations of AUS & NZ are not even 10% of the USA when combined. Gun ownership rates were much lower and a lower proportion of self-loading rifles and handguns.

      In Australia they offered the carrot of above market rates for now banned firearms and the stick of heavy fines and jail time (actually higher sentences than those for murder). This was funded by an increase in a tax over several years. A further incentive was spare parts and accessories were paid for as well.

      New Zealand appears to be using a more punitive stance of a fraction of former market value for now banned firearms and the threat of heavy punishment. And they wonder why compliance is reluctant at best.

      Would this work in the USA? NO for the following reasons. Much bigger population. Much higher rate of gun owners. Many more guns. Much higher proportions of ownership of self-loading rifles and handguns. A reluctance to increase taxes to fund compulsory purchasing at fair market value. A reliance on law enforcement to use shock-and-awe to promote compliance. All this is going to lead to a culture conflict at best and to confrontation at worst.

    4. avatar Aaron Leslie says:

      Given that over 900 people fulled out the online police form saying that they had guns to surrender and under 300 turned up, this is not widespread compliance. Most are intending to wait and put more pressure back on the police/government, we didn’t see any of the high end AR15s used for 3gun etc in the police display of destroyed weapons as the compensation offered is well below market value. Also just before the first hand in the police finally admitted they didn’t know if people were allowed to convert semi’s to straight pull or pump action, a straight forward reading of the law would show you can. A class action law suit is about to start challenging aspects of the law and confiscation compensation.

  3. avatar Ransom says:

    I’m OK with buybacks. It takes funds away anti-gunners and weeds out those too dim to preserve their means of self preservation.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Also allows enterprising people to whip up some pipe guns in their garage and “sell them back” for mucho profits.

      1. avatar Bob Jones says:

        Never, never, never throw away any worn out parts from Modern Sporting Rifles. They can be assembled into some ferocious looking semi-authentic buyback specials.

    2. avatar California Richard says:

      I’m not okay with forced “buybacks” because:

      1) they never owned my guns in the first place.

      2) they are using my tax dollars to take away my guns.

      3) it’s a government boot in the face of the law abiding that the government slaps a fluffly pink unicorn smily face on to make it look nice.

      1. avatar GS650G says:

        4.) and jail time if you refuse.

  4. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

    So they are paying $1500 per gun?

    1. avatar RCC says:

      Gluteus
      I’m currently in New Zealand. They are not paying that much per firearm.
      The maximum pay out is 95% of new price even for an unfired item, down to 25% for “very used”.
      Pay out total includes parts like magazines, spare barrels etc.
      No one I’ve spoken to is happy with the prices or the buyback. More than a few now own bolt action .223 s well.

      1. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

        I feel for you

        1. avatar RCC says:

          Hi Gluteus,

          To me it’s mildly annoying as I go home next month. I’ve done some hunting with borrowed rifle. To locals and some of my family here on 5 year contract it’s really, really bad.

          Government has no idea of actual numbers of now banned as there was no registration for rifles and shotguns. But there is a list of licence holders.

      2. avatar Leighton Cavendish says:

        But silencers are cheap and easy to get…go figure
        Good thing he didn’t use one of those…right?

      3. Deer New Zealander, AKA Royal vassal, a peasant of the monarchy. I’d like to direct you to American history (unrevisoned.): “American Declaration of Independence, and American revolutionary War…” Good reads! May NOT be available to subjects of the Crown 👑….

      4. DON’T WORRY! Eventually, THEY’LL come for YOUR sinister “kitchen cutlery, and flatware…” Then THEY’LL regulate “sticks and stones…”

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Followed shortly by “words”.

    2. avatar barnbwt says:

      They could pay a million, it’s still the gun owners’ money AND guns AND freedom that are at stake here. All are being stolen simultaneously.

  5. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    And I’m sure many were from criminals!!! LMAO!!

  6. avatar oldguy says:

    Is it a reasonable prediction of 20+ years in the future that NZ kids will turn in their parents hidden firearms when the parent has deceased? Law abiding kids will not have had the chance learn or appreciate firearms and thus turn in dad’s guns to avoid problems. Criminals, will of course, still be armed.

    1. avatar Bob Jones says:

      Those children will be owned by the criminals.

      1. avatar Purity of Essence says:

        Yep. Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.

    2. avatar Inigo Carmine says:

      It will be the same with full-auto in the U.S. We can smirk all we want about non-compliance, but those people will need to be extremely careful to practice/function-test or even sight-in a firearm now, and say goodbye to passing the skills to friends/children/loved-ones. Chances are it will be hidden somewhere and be unused until it is eventually discovered and destroyed.

      This may not eliminate the existence of semi-auto rifles overnight, but it neuters their possession, and in about 1 generation constructive “ownership” will be effectively wiped out. Yes, there will be holdouts, but so small in number as to be barely worth counting.

      Banning of firearms doesn’t need to happen in one fell swoop to make it effective in the long run. Don’t make the mistake of assuming the (smarter) gun-grabbers are not fully aware of this.

    3. avatar Ark says:

      Indoctrinating children to narc on their parents is an essential component of any socialist dictatorship.

  7. avatar GS650G says:

    there is now a fertile market for smuggled guns in NZ because they don’t have good records on what exists.
    Brilliant move , Einsteins.

  8. avatar Pg2 says:

    Every year millions of Americans get shot with vaccines. The violence has to stop.

    1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

      I soooo agree. I also use needles but I’m no druggie. I shoot-up for freedom. I know a lot about politics and the gun culture. The gun culture is evil. The devil lives inside a snub nose .38 I’ve seen him. I can tell you stories. Really.

      1. avatar barnbwt says:

        Impersonating others so you can converse with yourself…that’s just *sad*

        1. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

          @barn,

          Good to know I’m not the only one who’s noticed that.

    2. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

      Dude, there are a lot of good reasons to be very skeptical of the current monopoly vaccine scheme in the US but you are not helping the cause by beating people over the head with inane shit like that in a gun related comments section when no one else brought it up in a serious context.

      When you do this shit you cause people to shut down and then when someone like me tries to post something serious about it in response to something serious about it no one is willing to keep an open mind because you have already shit in the pool.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        For the reasons you just spelled out pg2 is a success for his creators in big pharma. No way is he a genuine anti vaxxer. No way.

  9. avatar HEGEMON says:

    A government buyback program is nothing but a form of forcible sodomy on citizens. They don’t want your guns, they ultimately want your lives.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      Don’t you know it’s not really rape if the government gives you money afterward? Just take the money and thank them politely for the opportunity.

  10. avatar Political gristle says:

    Sell your freedoms for 20 pieces of silver, Judas. (NZ)

  11. avatar Cpt Olen Ridling says:

    You will be so sorry that you gave away your rights. All you have to do is look at any other country where the people were dis-armed for their safety. Didn’t help the Jews in Germany, the common citizen in the CCCP, anyone in Laos, Venezuela, & Et Al. You are now prey.

  12. avatar Alan Schultz says:

    Were gun owning New Zealanders, the normally law abiding ones that is, took the position describable as follows, Molon Labe, which I believe translates more or less as follows, You Want Them, Come Get Them, how might “the cookie crumble”?

  13. avatar #2020Matters says:

    https://www.instagram.com/2020americamatters/

    Gun-free Zones are killing Zones NZ will be far less safe when guns are banned.

  14. avatar "keep yur hands off my dead guy" possum says:

    I’m catching the next Teutonic shift down South so’es I can tell them “FCK YOU ! ! !”

    1. avatar barnbwt says:

      That you, Early Cuyler?

  15. avatar Aaron Walker says:

    The people of New Zealand are “Royal subjects, NOT free citizens…” They are considered to be “peasents , or Royal Vaasals under the Crown 👑…” See defintion of a monarchy…New Zealanders should read up on the American” Declaration of Independence, and The American Revolutionary War…”

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      Basically they are owned by the Crown then?

  16. avatar Aaron Walker says:

    “Your comment is awaiting moderation!” Thought I was on Facebook or YouTube for a moment…U Sure that “leftist influencers ” AREN’T working here…?

  17. avatar Ozzallos says:

    In other news, New Zealand creates over a million new felons overnight.
    Good job!

    1. avatar Jim Bullock says:

      That was the plan, of course. Hard to run a protection racket without some kind of threat. Direct mayhem is so personal.

      “Nice life you have there … would be a shame if anybody called in a tip about contraband guns…”

      1. avatar Bierce Ambrose says:

        What do you think laws are for? You can’t rule innocent people.

        So said The Bad Guys in some Ayn Rand fiction and by there-is-no-god, the folks who most dislike her are making it real.

        Earnest revolution is apparently irony-free. (Also, they’re busy electing Trump again.) Moar popcorn.

  18. avatar LastOfTheOldOnes says:

    New Zealand, Australia, Canada, with Britain leading the way to 1984.
    We should be very grateful to our Founding Fathers for their courage and foresight. At least we have a memory of true liberty.

    However, the liberal British establishment has poisoned many Americans with their fearfully blind obedience to the state. We must be very vigilant, but I am afraid there likely are not enough balls left for true defiance.

    We are screwed, glued and tattooed, as evidenced by our acceptance of the eradication of free speech rights on 99% of our media platforms. People are afraid…and the ones actually standing up and acting are called insane, delusional or treasonous.

  19. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    I don’t know whether to have some hope or not. Short-term, rolling back this NZ foolishness is unlikely.

    /Pardon me while I muse
    The thing is, “back in the day”, you’d maybe hear about the return stats, public non-compliance by known gangs, and I’ll assume eventual selective enforcement, charge stacking, n punishment by ” investigation”, maybe in some dusty academic study 30 years later that nobody reads. You’d never hear about the guy who stopped the shooting, or that the free-fire whack-job got away for a while … because throwing a credit card machine at him isn’t very effective.

    These things are still out there, easily found.

    The counter-narrative, A K A “inconvenient truths” abides. Tossing stuff down the memory hole is harder than it was. Stuff leaks, even past Gooie-people seeing only their bias-selected evil / no evil, or The Zuck’s Star Chamber bots.

    The seething spasms of mass reaction are amplified, but the drip, drip of little truths also leak through more, and persist. Which wins?

    We known what the long-marchers think, with their monitoring not just publications, articles n media, but casual home pages, comments, n individuals. They stomp venues, doxx people, and, indeed, spam up any comment that makes a point … entirely on purpose. They have to memory-hole contrary events to craft the pristine story they’re selling. Why else work so hard at it?

    There’s a reason trolls n their emissions appear when people start good conversations. Clearly, TTAG has graduated to real-time monitoring, n disruption-seeding at the top of comment sections.

    They have to shut it down because it’s out there, and might get heard. When presses were big machines, maintaining the silence was easier. Worse, even the silencing is visible.

    I don’t know how this plays out, but when they try the next thing in NZ, there will be fodder for asking: How’d that last time work out? Because some people will know there was a “last time” that was supposed to mean there would never be a next time.

    (Also, that AWB did Great Things. And how many Columbines in Chicago this last week-end? And there are no DGUs except for the ones tallied in those CDC reports that leaked out.)

    None of this will convince the anti-people, but they can’t do what they want on their own, or they’d have done it. They need people who aren’t already true believers who might note that murders are up in gun-free England.

    It’s harder than ever to stop the signal. I don’t know how that plays out.

  20. avatar TWP says:

    You can’t buy back something you didn’t sell in the first place, and you aren’t buying at all if the seller hasn’t agreed to the price.

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