New From Remington: Model 870 Tac-14

Quite the coincidence that Mossberg would release its 590 Shockwave at the same time that Remington dropped its Model 870 Tac-14, but, like Apple and Samsung, anything else would be uncivilized. The Tac-14 is a non-NFA “firearm” based on the Remington 870. MSRP starts at $443.05 . . .

At the NRA show it was marketed predominately for home defense and personal protection.

Cylinder bore, bead sight, 14″ barrel, 4+1 capacity, Raptor pistol grip, and Magpul M-LOK forend. 


  1. avatar emfourty gasmask says:

    what is honestly the point

    1. avatar Art out West says:

      Looks painful.
      When firing a shotgun, I like to have a shoulder stock.

      1. avatar Warren says:

        It’s less terrible than you’d think. Certainly less terrible than the pistol grip the Mossberg Persuader has.

      2. avatar Joel IV says:

        Me too, but this isn’t a shotgun. 😉

        1. avatar Art out West says:

          Great response! I forgot that this isn’t a “shotgun”.
          Still, having fired a pistol gripped 18″ shotgun, I like a stock. Give me this 14″ firearm with a stock, and I’d be interested. Of course that would be a SBS, NFA item, and not worth the trouble as far as I’m concerned.

      1. avatar Rick the Bear (MA to NH) says:


      2. avatar Anon in CT says:

        The holster is more than a hundred bucks more than the shotty. That’s funny stuff.

      3. avatar jwtaylor says:

        “These rigs were originally produced for narcs who wished to make a good first impression on their customers.”-HA!

      4. avatar Richard says:

        While that rig is sweet, do you happen to know of any which can be worn as a Leg Holster, similar to those for the Ranch Hand Mares Leg ? The Law regarding this new Firearm explicitly states “if concealed, the laws regarding it’s legality come in to question”. The rig you provided the link to is more for Law Enforcement, not the General Public.

        1. avatar Richard Tyll says:

          FYI, I did find two possible solutions.
          BlackHawk Gun Pouch CQD Mark I & Mark II Weapons Catch for Rifles/Shotguns

          Tourbon Gun Holster Waist Belts Shotgun Rifle Genuine Real Leather Brown

          I ordered both so, I’ll report back & let you know if they work with this firearm.

    2. avatar Don says:

      A lot of cops down here my local PD have bought the TAC 14 and Schockwave for their cruisers to sit right next them. It is the ultimate get off me gun and give you great access to raw fire power.

      I want to get on for home defense. I own 870’s; so the manual of arms is going to stay the same. The Magpul Forehand is a brilliant idea because it gives the shooter better hand protection from a hot barrel and the ability to mount a light. I would fill the TAC 14 with short shells to up the capacity and reduce the recoil and call it done.

      1. avatar Richard says:

        The Remington tac-14 or it’s cousin, the ASYLUM WEAPONRY GATEKEEPER II both have a Remington 870 Solid Billet Steel Receiver. They will not feed the 1 3/4 inch shells. Only the Mossberg 590 will feed those shells & only with a rubber insert.

        1. avatar Big Bill says:

          ” Only the Mossberg 590 will feed those shells & only with a rubber insert.”
          Not true; you are confusing the 590 with the entire 500 series, which will fire the mini-shells, even without the adapter. The adapter just makes the feeding more positive, and less prone to jams.
          Ask me how I know…

      2. avatar Richard Tyll says:

        It’s NOT possible to use the short-shells in the Remington TAC-14
        I contacted them and they told me that they are unable to make it work with the Remington TAC-14

  2. avatar Pablo says:

    Slap a sig brace on and we’ll talk

    1. avatar SigLifeSailor says:

      Theoretically you could, with the recent ATF ruling that shouldering a brace doesn’t redesign a firearm wearing it. Maybe one of the PDW braces on a Mesa Tactical adapter with a MOE K grip…

      1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

        I believe you’d have to have an FFL07/SOT do that for you, as removing the factory grip would drop the overall length under 26″ and it would instantly become an Any Other Weapon, which you would have just manufactured without approved registration or license. Not sure if the SOT would have to do any paperwork or what the case would be, though, to go through the process of effectively converting it to an AOW and then back into a non-NFA “firearm.” And yes, even registered NFA firearms can be converted back to non-NFA configuration and sold as non-NFA firearms (e.g. I could take my registered SBR AR-15 and swap the upper for a 16″+ barrel one and sell it as I would any other normal firearm, though ideally informing the ATF that I’ve disposed of it in non-NFA config).

        1. avatar PT says:

          Put 18+” barrel on.

          Take handle off.

          Install Sig brace

          Remove 18+” barrel and reinstall 14″ barrel.

          No NFA violations.

        2. avatar Fred says:


          A private individual can cut a rifle barrel to less than 16, and then proceed to permanently attach a muzzle device to extend it to 16.

          As long as it is intentional, and done without delay.

  3. avatar SouthernPhantom says:

    I am actually interested, mostly in the ability to have a non-NFA breaching shotgun.

    1. avatar Jack says:

      I don’t do a lot of breaching myself, but I’m glad for anyone who can find their way through the BATFE hall of mirrors to make a new product. If they included a way to sling this thing under an AR hand-guard it would be even more interesting. For squirrels, obviously.

      1. avatar Asamurai says:

        As far as attaching it to an AR goes, doesn’t that put you back in the NFA because of the 14 inch barrel?
        I thought the point of this was as long as it is 26 inches overall and DOES NOT have a shoulder ‘thing that goes up’ (LOL stock) then that makes it a ‘firearm’. If you attach a shoulder stock it becomes an NFA regulated SBS. Thus: attaching it to an AR15 with a shoulder stock now also makes it an SBS meaning you need a stamp.
        Unless I have that wrong, but I think one way or the other it needs pointing out since I already see 2 comments about under-barrel mounting it.
        And one last question, wouldn’t it just be more efficient to just sling it separately on a single point, use it to breach and then throw it over your shoulder and switch to the AR? I mean, I thought one of the big selling points of an AR was that you could easily get its weight under 7 pounds? Now you wanna bolt a shotgun to it so the assembly weighs more then 20lbs? It just doesn’t sound like its really worth the effort.

      2. avatar Vhyrus says:

        Attaching this to a stocked gun would be considered adding a stock to it, so not legally without a stamp.

  4. avatar ColdNorth says:

    Your ears will pick the short straw too unless you’ve got some earpro to go with that 14 inch barrel.

    1. avatar Lucas D. says:

      When is it not a good idea to have ear protection when you’re shooting?

      1. avatar Aaron Bennett says:

        I rarely wore it when deployed. That was in 2004, though, I’m sure there is good stuff now, but all we had were the earplugs, and in a combat situation you didn’t always have time to put them in. Side note: an M4 inside a concrete building is a lot louder than you would imagine, at least for the first couple shots, lol.

  5. avatar John Dooley says:

    Wasn’t it the other way around? The Mossberg Shockwave came out in January at shot show.

    1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

      Oh yeah? I must have missed it there. They presented it to me at NRA as a brand new product and didn’t remember seeing it at SHOT.

      1. avatar Vhyrus says:

        The shockwave is currently available for purchase. I held one at a lgs about a month ago.

      2. avatar Frank in VA says:

      3. avatar Big Bill says:

        I saw one in the wild at a gun show in Mesa (AZ) back in March.

    2. avatar Jeff K says:

      According to what I read about the Shockwave, ANY changes to the stock configuration makes it an NFA item. Keep it factory.

      1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

        If either of these guns drop below 26″ overall length, they become Any Other Weapons. This could mean that even temporarily removing the grip, which would make it shorter than 26″ OAL, would legally count as manufacturing an unregistered NFA item.

        1. avatar Ebby123 says:

          You’d have to remove the barrel and keep it removed until your changes to the back end were complete.

  6. avatar Skoon says:

    Can one slap a moe vertical grip on that legally?

    1. avatar ACP_arms says:

      If I remember right, yes, you can.

    2. avatar Jeremy S. says:

      Verify just in case, but the answer I’m aware of is “Yes.” You can’t do it on a pistol because a “pistol” is defined as being designed to fire with a single hand. This “firearm” is not a “pistol.” Franklin Armory made a point of this in the marketing of their XO26 (review:

      1. avatar Norincojay says:

        I thought 26″ over all length allowed the use of a vertical foregrip including “pistols” with that overall permanent length.

        1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

          I believe that’s because once it’s designed to be fired with the use of two hands it’s no longer a “pistol.” Because it’s 26″ OAL or longer, the addition of a VFG turns it into a “firearm.” If it were under 26″, it would turn it into an “Any Other Weapon.” So it’s not exactly the case that it’s okay to put a VFG on a 26″+ OAL pistol, but that doing so re-classifies it as a “firearm,” and that’s okay because a “firearm” isnt’ an NFA-regulated thing. …but do not do this without verifying!!! This is my personal understanding of it, and I’m not a lawyer…

  7. avatar ACP_arms says:

    Sorry, but the 870 doesn’t have the bolt release and safety in the right spot for this kind of gun. Mossberg 590 Shockwave all the way for me.

    Now before anyone jumps on me about not liking the 870 because I don’t use/have one- I’m using a 870 to shoot trap, the location of the bolt release and safety just aren’t in the right place to be used efficiently. Winchester and Mossberg have it right with their guns.

    1. avatar Norincojay says:

      No you’re right. They have the safety on top where in this design your thumb will be.

    2. avatar Big Bill says:

      I’m with you.
      My first shotgun was a 590A1. In the shop, they had a few of these, alongside some 870s; both were ‘black.’
      When I handled them both, the release and safety were the only functional differences, and the 590A1’s ergonomics won out.
      I don’t have any Remington shotguns, I just prefer the Mossberg design. Nothing against the Remingtons, I’ve shot them, they are fine guns. The ergonomics of the Mossbergs just seems better to me.
      My next purchase will probably be one of these designs.

  8. avatar Rick the Bear (MA to NH) says:

    I’m an 870 guy, but I just bought a Shockwave. 8~(

  9. avatar Timao Theos says:

    Amazing how many posters on the internet dont have a freaking clue. These things are selling out and if some of y;all were in charge you wouldnt have made them. Must be why y;all aren;t in charge.

    1. avatar Swarf says:

      Things being popular is your metric for them being a good idea? Really?

      You sure you want to lift that veil?

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        You don’t like Pet Rocks? 🙂

      2. avatar Ebby123 says:

        Uh.. YES.

        In consumer product design that’s about the only thing that matters.
        All engineers are good at justifying why design is awesome.
        Only good engineers can point to the sales records to justify why their design is awesome.

        Rule #1 – Give the people what they want!

  10. avatar Ironhead says:

    I like the idea about mounting it on an ar…. safety is on the right spot for that.
    Just curious about the reliability. Is this a quality 870 or the junk they have been manufacturing the last few years?

    1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

      Mounting it on an AR would effectively be adding a stock to this gun, and would turn it into a Short Barreled Shotgun. It would be a felony unless you got a Form 1 approved first.

    2. avatar Asamurai says:

      Um, I hate to rain on your parade but this thing has a 14 inch barrel so mounting it to an AR creates a stocked 14 inch barreled shotgun, making it an SBS regulated by the NFA.
      The selling point of this thing is that they made it 26 inches overall with NO stock, making it a ‘firearm’ not regulated by the NFA. So mounting it to an AR defeats the reason for its existence.
      Unless I misunderstood something, and I will gladly stand corrected by someone who knows more then the NFA Then I do, but quick google-fu seems to agree and goes on to suggest that if you remove the stock from an 18 inch pump and then bolt it to an AR you stay out of the NFA. But a 14 inch shotgun on an AR is an SBS.

      1. avatar Rifleman says:

        Just put a arm brace on the ar. Problem solved.

  11. avatar Mr Pierogie says:

    Anybody with legal expertise know if this would be automatically classified as a sawed-off shotgun in New Jersey? I thought that since this a non-NFA item, but with a smooth bore and a short barrel (so not a rifle), I thought best case scenario would be that this may be considered a pistol (since NJ definition of a shotgun specifies that it’s meant to be fired from the shoulder). But then again this is not meant to be fired using just one hand.

    1. avatar Dave M says:

      Supposedly NO because the MANUFACTURE made it in this configuration and it was never modified from a gun with a longer barrel. It is IMPERATIVE that NO changes are made to this style firearm in any way, must remain 100% factory spec to avoid prosecution. Don’t be tempted to change ANYTHING. This according to information that I found.

      1. avatar Mr Pierogie says:

        It’s short from the factory, so it has not been modified. It has a smooth bore so it’s not a rifle. It’s not designed to be fired from a shoulder, so it’s not a shotgun. It’s not designed to be fired from just one hand, so it’s not a pistol. I think I saw on Gunbroker a sticker on the Mossberg version that said it’s to be transferred to people 21 and older (so like a pistol). It’s a non-NFA item, so neither a short barrel rifle or shotgun. So WTF is it (at least in NJ)? Thus far I spoke to several FFLs who don’t know either, but they won’t be selling them.

        1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

          You’re citing federal law, and under federal law it’s a “firearm.” New Jersey could have their own laws, though, that define it differently because they define shotguns and short barreled shotguns differently.

        2. avatar Richard says:

          In the Letter which accompanied my purchase, it reads: ”
          Per your correspondence, the submitted sample was made from a weapon that never was a “Shotgun” as defined by the GSA. The FTISB examination determined that the submitted sample is not a “Firearm” as defined in the NFA. It is a “firearm” as defined in the GCA 921(a)(3).”
          The Letter is 3 pages long but, it appears this text is pertinent to your question.
          I purchase a ASYLUM WEAPONRY GATEKEEPER II for $285.
          This firearm transfers as a PGO (Pistol Grip Only)/Other on the 4473 that you fill out at your dealer.
          It was built, based upon the “Witness Protection 870” built by Wilson Arms Company.
          They recommend using either the Remington’s Managed Recoil™ 8 pellet 00 load or Managed recoil Slug.

      2. avatar Vhyrus says:

        Calm down. I’m pretty sure you can add a rail and a red dot to it without SWAT breaking down your door.

    2. avatar Jeremy S. says:

      I don’t know NJ law, but I do know CA law. It’s illegal in CA because the state has its own definition of “shotgun” and “short barreled shotgun” and, unlike Federal law, there’s no mention of “designed to fire from the shoulder” being necessary to make something a “shotgun.” The short version is that, in CA, if it’s designed to fire a shotshell and has a barrel shorter than 18″, it’s illegal. No speak of rifling either, btw, so the Taurus Judge and S&W Governor are considered short barreled shotguns in CA also.

      Oddly enough, the only exception to that is Any Other Weapons, which are legal in the state. So get something classified as an AOW (Serbu Super Shorty, Hurricane Butterfly, Black Aces, Taurus Judge or S&W Governor with a vertical forward grip installed and registered as an AOW from an FFL07/SOT) and you can have it.

      I would suggest looking at the NJ penal codes to see how they define shotgun and short barreled shotgun, etc.

      1. avatar Mr Pierogie says:

        From NJ State Police website link:

        “Sawed-off shotgun” means any shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length measured from the breach to the muzzle, or a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length measured from the breach to the muzzle, or any firearm made from a rifle or a shotgun, whether by alteration, or otherwise, if such firearm as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

        “Shotgun” means any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and using the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shots or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, or any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder which does not fire fixed ammunition.

        At first I thought it would be automatically considered sawed-off, but the paragraph ends on “if such firearm as MODIFIED…” which this Rem and the Shockwave are not (I’m guessing if they came like that from the factory, then they would not fall under this definition).

        1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

          Correct. The companies avoid that specific part of the law by NEVER letting a shoulder stock touch this receiver. It is manufactured from the get-go with this configuration in mind and gets the pistol-like grip installed first thing. Therefore, it is not a gun made from a shotgun and it was never a shotgun since a shotgun is a gun intended to fire from the shoulder and this never was. So no law referring to a shotgun or something you do to a shotgun applies to this firearm.

      2. avatar Richard says:

        I sure am glad I live in Montana (11th out of 50) – Best States for Gun Owners – “Montana has legalized the use of suppressors when hunting. Under current law, permit-less carry is generally legal outside of the cities. Montana has a model Castle Doctrine law and places no restrictions on semiautomatic firearms or NFA items.”
        New Jersey is the 49th out of 50 worst states for firearms & California is ranked 46th.

  12. avatar Curtis in IL says:

    So Remington wants me to drop $400+ on a pump shotgun that doesn’t have a stock.

    No, thanks.

    1. avatar Big Bill says:

      That’s OK.
      No single firearm is designed to appeal to everyone. Each design has its own demographics it’s designed to appeal to. This particular design will appeal to a couple of different types of people, including those who want something short and maneuverable, for home defense, and are able to handle it in that role. Others will want it just because it’s a design that’s “different,” and they don’t have one (I think I fit in that demographic; I have a 20″ 500 I currently use for HD). I’m sure there are other groups who will want one, too.
      But if you don’t want one, Mossberg won’t cry over a lost sale, there are plenty of others who will buy it. There are some who will buy it simply because it’s a Remington they don’t have yet.
      I won’t buy one of these, because I’m not fond of the ergonomics, and Mossberg makes the same thing but with different ergonomics that I prefer.
      And a lot, like you, just don’t see the appeal at all. And that’s OK.

    2. avatar Ebby123 says:

      That’s OK.
      No single firearm is designed to appeal to everyone.

      Absolute #1 overlooked fact in this industry. Spot on sir!

  13. avatar Cedar says:

    “The shortest allowable distance between powerless and prepared” is more accurate than they probably intended; shotguns w/Out stocks suck.

    1. avatar Frank in VA says:

      Hickock 45 seems to be able to shoot minute of bad guy pretty easily with them:

      1. avatar Cedar says:

        You can hit a target, but getting fast, accurate followup shots is much harder. And even if you can shoot a PGO shotgun better than I can shoot one with a stock, there’s no way you can shoot a PGO shotgun better than you can shoot one with a stock.

        1. avatar Richard says:

          I bought mine because I live in Grizzly country. When I go Fishing or Gold Panning up in the Mountains, I’ve had a bear encounter every time. I carry my 9mm on my hip & have my British Enfield .303 Truck Gun but, I’d rather have an easily carried Slug Gun which I can carry while Fishing or panning. I suppose I’m lucky that I don’t live in an area where I need worry about Home Defense against Bad Guys to contend with. I’ve found Two-legged animals are far more dangerous than four-legged animals.

  14. avatar Swarf says:

    Pretty sure the Mossberg has been out for awhile and Remington is playing catch up.

    1. avatar Bohica says:

      I bought a Mossberg Shockwave in January so they have been available at least that long. It’s a hoot to shoot, much more comfortable than it would seem.

  15. avatar Joe R. says:

    Firearms Act rules as selling points now?

    Couldn’t they just say, “if it was any shorter you’d have to have armed combat with some of your stupid neighbors who needed a job to get it home”?

  16. avatar that one guy says:

    I wish Remington would take an inch or so out the action and make a shorty pump that would only run the 1.75″ minishells….and then start making the minishells en masse.

    that seems like it would be an excellent home defense weapon that almost anyone could handle and control, while allowing for several shots before a reload.

    1. avatar Dave M says:

      Mossberg sells an adapter that allows full use of mini shells, don’t know if it would work in the Rem. If they shortened it at all it would be an NFA item.

      1. avatar Lucas D. says:

        I doubt it. The adapter is shaped so that the Mossberg’s skeletonized loading ramp fits around it, whereas the 870’s standard ramp is a solid leaf style.

        1. avatar Big Bill says:

          You’re right, the POSol Mini-Clip is only for the Mossbergs.

  17. avatar Shire-man says:

    I will most likely get the Mossberg version because of capacity and the tang safety.
    What I really want to know is where is the lever version so I can roll like it’s Judgement Day?

  18. avatar Lucas D. says:

    Already ordered the 590 Shockwave. 5+1 capacity and it accepts an drop-in adapter for perfect mini shell feeding. Not that I have anything against the 870, but I just sort of prefer the tighter, smoother action on a Mossy.

    As for those who question why, I get that it’s not terribly practical, but “why not?” was the harder question to answer. I’m well past buying guns I need, so now I’m just getting stuff because I think it’s fun to play with on the range, and if I ever start spending your disposable on it, go ahead and complain.

    1. avatar jwm says:

      Why? With a single point sling it might be the best house gun out there.

      1. avatar Lucas D. says:

        That had not escaped me, and it will be one of the first guns I reach for if stuff starts going bump in the night, but sometimes you have to preempt the Fudds who want to throw a fit about anything that isn’t granddad’s old double-barrel. Too bad I still have about 3 or weeks to wait on it.

  19. avatar adverse4 says:

    If I find one just lying around, and no one seems to be looking for it, I might pick it up. Mossberg or Remington made. Now, if push comes to shove and I really have a need for any firearm, I am not gonna be picky if that’s all I can get right away.

  20. avatar Shocktotheface says:

    Without the forearm strap that the Mossberg has, I forsee a lot of new Remington owners with busted teeth, noses, and foreheads.

    1. avatar Jeff K says:

      How about missing fingers? One of the reasons the Mossy has the strap also.

  21. Awesome! I really like it and think that it’s better than Mossberg Shockwave.

  22. avatar Highwayman says:

    I can find the Mossbergs but not the Remingtons. Are the Remingtons on the market yet.

    1. avatar Joe Smit says:

      Not yet

    2. avatar Richard says:

      I bought mine for $285

  23. avatar Joe Smit says:

    Would love to see this in a 20 gauge

  24. avatar falrifles says:

    They will sell a lot of them because they look “bad ass” like something you see in the movies. The reality of this gun is that they are hard to hit with. I am a former police firearms instructor for a major police department. In the 80’s we still had a 20 ga Ithaca 37 gun of this configuration. We called them “Whippet” guns. I had to go to the range early and put several boxes through mine, to avoid looking like a fool while demonstrating the use of this gun to detectives who were there to qualify with the gun. Leaning forward and shooting from the waist was the technique we taught. However, I preferred raising it to eye level as demonstrated in Hickock 45’s video.
    Just know that real life shootouts are no fun and are very serious business. Give me a shotgun with a shoulder stock when my life is on the line. There will be no time for practice and no “do overs.”

  25. avatar Not Sawed Off Tim says:

    This design isn’t really new. It was always a favorite in specialized law enforcement units. It was originally only a custom manufactured kind of thing, but in the late 1970’s to early 1980’s both the US Secret Service and US Marshall’s Service had the forerunner of Scatter Gun (now owned by Wilson Combat) manufacture several hundred. These type of shotguns have always been popular with robbery units, surveillance teams, close protection teams, and other secret squirrel police groups. It’s specifically designed to be fired at eye level very similarly to how you’d aim a stocked firearm. The originals used wood stocks and had both 12.5 inch or 14 inch barrels (with a one round extender). There was also a long front sling attachment that acted as a blocker to keep the user’s front hand from slipping in front of the muzzle. The original sling was a very slightly modified M-1 Carbine sling. The purpose was to be able to unsnap the front sling point and remove the firearm from under a trench coat or other concealing garment. Up until a few years ago both LAPD and LA Sheriff’s narcotic and special investigations units were still using these modified from Ithaca Deerslayers. These are extremely effective and oddly accurate from contact out to 25 yards using single O or double O buck loads. They may be a fad today, but those in law enforcement have known of their effectiveness for years.

    1. avatar Richard Tyll says:

      Any thought’s on using Low Recoil Slugs?
      I bought mine for Bear Protection but, don’t believe 0 or 00 buckshot will do the job.
      I purchased a few boxes of Slugs.
      I plan on visiting the range this week while sighting in my Hunting rifles so I’ll see how well they work.

  26. avatar Roney says:

    Put a pistol grip and vertical foregrip on it and call it “Done” …

  27. avatar Richard says:

    As an addition to this conversation, have you folks heard about the new product, CleanShot®: Shoot-thru Gun Bore Cleaner . Right now they only manufacture a 12 gauge but, are working on other Shells & calibers.

  28. avatar Steve J says:

    The Shockwave is a very specific tool for a very specific job.
    Up close and personal within an enclosed space. Home DEFENSE, and/or in a vehicle while sitting DEFENSE.
    They are tapped for a rail and with a pistol laser and/or a light they are effective much farther than you would ever need in a house or vehicle..
    The Shockwave was first released and the Remington followed.
    As of this post the Shockwave is now also available in 20 ga.
    Your choice, but carrying 1 more round and Mossberg ergonomics works for me.
    Your mileage may vary.

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