New From Premier Body Armor: AGILE Level IIIA Soft Armor Inserts

1. K, but who’s EDC is that?

2. I would not like to take a 12 Ga slug in soft armor of any kind.

   • At a minimum, you’re looking at at least a handful of broken ribs, and while that is something better than getting shot, it still sucks *bigtime*…

3. This sentence trips my marketing-doublespeak detector (emphasis added): “Inserts will protect against 9mm, .40, .45, and .44 magnum, and are special threat tested against 12 gauge (both buckshot and slugs), Liberty Civil Defense 9mm and FN 5.7×28 (SS197SR).”

   • Normal III A plates aren’t rated against higher velocity pistol ammo. Apparently, these will give you extra protection and, therefore, it would not be marketing doublespeak. It’s more bang for your buck, so to speak .

   • “Special threat tested” is official nomenclature in the body armor industry. It means tested for protection from “threats” that aren’t specifically detailed in the NIJ certification testing and the same term is used by every body armor manufacturer who does that sort of additional testing. And I think it’s fair for them to say “will protect against,” because the product has been certified and proven to do so in the NIJ testing protocol. Though that said I’d probably hedge that language slightly if I were the one making and selling the stuff haha

     • Jeremy S, SAFEupstateFML,
       The details about the test protocols are interesting (I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically; I always love learning), but it doesn’t change the implications of the sentence.

       They tested it; they advertised unambiguously about the rounds that passed, and then wrote ambiguously about other rounds – when, as I wrote in response to Texican (a comment that seems to have disappeared down the page, where it makes no sense out of context), it would be much more persuasive to say they passed if they did.

       • bruh, it’s marketing… “tactical” sells.

       • About what I figured, I will read through the spec sheet and results later out of curiosity. Last time I got to do an armor procurement it was a mix of .04 and .05 standards at play so it is neat seeing how .06 changed things up in the pistol threat range.

4. This is a test to see if comments left on gear and guns are held for moderation.

   Seems like Bloomberg money was behind the overhaul of the TTAG site.

   • Nope just on the political topic that Sensiba wrote.

     Shame on you TTAG.

     Whats next Dan? Going to start editing comments before they get posted?

     • Dude don’t get all conspiracy theorist on me here. WordPress’ system has a few levels of comment moderation built in and you *have* to enable at least the most basic level of moderation against spam or it’s just total insanity with bots posting all sorts of junk. Plenty of legit comments get caught up in the filter because of random keywords or links or whatever else. They go into a “Pending” queue and Dan does a pretty darn good job of looking at it a few times a day and approving stuff that isn’t spam. As I look right now there’s one comment held up in there because (and I’m just assuming on this; it doesn’t actually tell you WHY it’s in the moderation queue) it contains the words “penis” and “vagina.” You, Specialist38, have 4,036 “Approved” comments and ZERO in the “Pending” queue and zero in “Spam.” As far as I can see you have literally never had a comment blocked on here.

       BUT…sometimes a comment will get snagged by the spam filter and you’ll just have to be a patient little Specialist38 until somebody gets around to approving it.

       • Two people are all thats needed for a conspiracy. Especially if its two decison-makers.

         I have posted on TTAG for years and have never been moderated or had a post delayed.

         So,a delay gets my attention. Especially when its in the “politics” category.

         People used to come to TTAG because it was not “nannified”. Looks like thats changing.

       • No it’s not. Calm down. You had a blip and probably used a keyword, or if you are like me, the site didn’t recognize your IP and it’s the same as CAPTCHA.

       • Specialist38IQ, the comment function has no idea about article categories and the only settings are global (they apply site-wide). In fact, our settings aren’t even unique to TTAG; it’s literally just the standard WordPress comments software running the low level spam filter preset.

         Your comment that went into the moderation queue had words that the system appears to have flagged (“homosexuals” and other words that must have automatically put it into the pending moderation category) and web links. Basically anywhere on the interwebs that’s running any level of comment spam filter whatsoever would snag a comment like that. Posting external links is like the #1 way to get filtered since that’s the whole point of automated spam (link to some sort of scam page or porn or stuff you’re selling or whatever). Nobody is reading every comment posted on the site and nobody is blocking things for political reasons. There are 2.23 million comments on TTAG. Today was a slow day and there were over 300 posted comments. There were 511 attempted spam comments caught by the filter. Payday loan stuff, bitcoin stuff, work from home stuff — every sort of spam scam crap you can think of. I just scanned through the spam folder from today and it’s all legit trash.

         You really think someone is reading 1,000 attempted comments a day and choosing to censor your random nonsense drivel? Because ONE of your 4,037 comments was delayed 20 minutes before one of us manually approved it? All of a sudden this is a pattern of behavior and a conspiracy? One delay in over four thousand? Give me a freaking break.

       • “Plenty of legit comments get caught up in the filter because of random keywords or links or whatever else.”

         Jeremy, TTAG (and you, by default, as a TTAG sys admin), have my real email addy.

         How about TTAG doing the regulars a solid by dropping us an email on what triggers those events?

         I *promise* I won’t blab in the comments and give those secrets away.

         It would be real fvcking helpful for us!

       • Or – not only more helpful for us, but much less work for you in the long run – change filter settings to bypass known non-spammers in the first place.

5. The first half of the sentence is an objective, factual statement of effectiveness against certain types of ammunition. The second is a doublespeak statement about other types. Since these don’t appear to have their own NIJ rating, I’ll call them Category B.

   If the inserts had tested satisfactorily against Category B rounds, an objective, factual statement to that effect (or simply lumping both categories into the first statement) would have made a much stronger selling point. If it’s true, they’d have to be crazy not to say so, right?

   They chose not to. They said they are “special threat tested against” B, which leaves less detail-oriented readers with an impression of effectiveness against B, while not actually committing / making themselves liable for any actual effectiveness against B.

   • the .06 standard uses higher velocities than previous revisions but “special threat” ratings typically require a bit of extra reading on whether the testing involved an actual stop, velocity used in testing, and whether there was a v50(or other) test and if so at what velocity is there a “reasonable” expectation to stop the projectile. Interested to see how the 9mm civil defense behaved.

6. Whiskey makes me bullet proof , I dOns nEed no veSty’s

7. Seriously, I am still trying to find what percentage of rounds shot at cops actually hit the vest. There is a crap ton of real estate that is still exposed that if hit can kill you PDQ. Covering the chest and back only make up 18% of the body’s surface area. If you count other parts that if hit can end in fatal hits, such as the abdomen, thighs, groin, neck and head, you still have another 45% left vulnerable to lead poisoning. I know vests do save lives, but I am just wondering what are the stats on bad guys managing to hit in a 10×12 area. I can’t find data anywhere. Any ideas? (I am not ripping on plate manufacturers. It just looks like for them to work a bad guy has to be able to shoot and decide that the chest was the best place to target. There are a lot of moving parts.)

   • Certainly an interesting question. NIJ says over 3,200 officers’ lives have been saved by bulletproof vests in the last 30 years. They were part of a report presented to Congress in 2016 that showed that an officer shot while wearing a vest is over three times more likely to survive the attack than an officer without a vest. That said, the same report pointed out that 29% of offers who were wearing vests and were shot were killed. All of those except for one were due to what you said: the officer being shot in part of their body not covered by the vest. Basically the takeaway was 29% chance of dying with a vest instead of 100% chance of dying without a vest. Not unlike how wearing a seatbelt won’t save your life in every possible car crash, but your chances of survival are still vastly higher with than without.

     • Vests are certainly beneficial, but nothing (either in those stats or otherwise) would support a “100% chance of dying without a vest” conclusion – any more than there is a 100% chance of dying unbelted in a car crash.

   • “There is a crap ton of real estate that is still exposed that if hit can kill you PDQ.”

     Not long back, I read a WW2 study on bomber battle damage.

     A sharp engineer kept detailed records on battle damage by returning bombers. The brilliant part of his study was looking at where there was no damage, correctly surmising that damage there was likely fatal to the aircraft.

     The data gathered was very helpful with up-armoring areas that were critical…

   • Military may be the better place to look for the stats there. I forget exact numbers but I do remember that fatal gunshots placement went from chest extremities head (vietnam era order) to head extremities chest (2011-14 area) and the extremities used to be higher but quick clot and tourniquets really helped. Can’t protect everything but chest is historically a good bet followed by head depending on what weapons are in use.

8. THANKS ON ARTICLE

Comments are closed.