Dudley Brown NAGR
Dudley Brown (courtesy NAGR)
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While [The National Association for Gun Rights’ Dudley] Brown thinks that the lawsuit is a “convenient” political persecution and said his organization doesn’t take any delight in James’ prosecution, the gun rights advocate said that exposing the corruption within the organization is important for its members. …

Brown is not only outraged by the alleged fraud of the NRA, but he is also frustrated by what he believes to be the false public mission of the organization.

He argues that the NRA is “not doing the bold work against infringement on the Second Amendment that they’d love everyone to believe.”

Rather, he thinks the NRA asks its members to trust that the organization will advocate for their rights as gun owners when what they’re really doing is playing “inside baseball.”

“Somehow the NRA thinks their strategy is that if it’s going to happen either way, we might as well be the one to write the law. I don’t want to be the one who writes the gun control law. I want to defeat it,” Brown said.

– Dudley Brown in Katherine Fung in Rival Gun Rights Group Accuses NRA of Never Advocating for Second Amendment Amid Lawsuit

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    • When my SS 396 Chevelle breaks down I don’t whine and complain it and leave it on the side of the road and find some used car salesman to sweet talk me into buying a car from him. I call a wrecker and get it fixed. Why? Because the car has a documented history and is well worth fixng over and over if that is what it takes…That is unless you are dumbfuk slacker who would trade the car in on a Toyota with cash to boot.

      • When your Saturn crapbox breaks down for the thirtieth time and you haven’t done any of the recommended or required maintenance ever, and every part of it (including the frame) is damaged beyond repair.. You trade it in for scrap value and you get a Toyota Corolla.

        The NRA has been all bluster no action for decades. The last good thing they did was putting a sunset clause in the AWB. I was a member until I actually started looking at their books back in 2015. Then I realized it had become a money-making scheme for LaPierre and his cronies. When they threw out every board member pushing for change and accountability they lost what little credibility they had left. The NRA is no longer an 800 lb. Gorilla. They’re a disabled rheesus monkey that’s been hiding behind their old reputation. LaPierre has made it clear that he will not allow reform. Ever.

        Let it die and let a coalition of gun groups (SAF, FPC, GOA, ASA) claim the name as their umbrella title.

        • Wipe the crybaby snot off your face. Read my post again and try not to spin it to fit your finger pointing cut and run narrative. If you had any sense you’d know my post was a response to each and every crybaby on this forum who has already echoed your sentiments. You are full of childish finger pointing excuses and the only solution to a problem you cannot handle is to drive a toyota crapbox.

        • @Debbie W
          Wipe the crybaby snot off your face. Read my post again and try not to spin it to fit your finger pointing cut and run narrative. If you had any sense you’d know my post was a response to each and every shill on this forum who has already echoed your sentiments. You are full of childish finger pointing excuses and the only solution to a problem you cannot handle is to cling to a decrepit and corrupt organization that actively works against your own interests.

          The NRA tried to scuttle Heller early on. The NRA supported the bumpstock ban and gave conditional support for red flag laws. The reason so many on this forum are content to see the NRA burn to the ground is because it has failed in it’s SOLE, PRIMARY DUTY, and it has done so repeatedly over many years while LaPierre looted the organization and diddled his little mistress in her $60k a year apartment – all the while Negotiating our Rights Away. The fact that you can only turn to anger and ad hominem attacks just illustrates how weak your own position is. I’d say “face facts” but you’re incapable of that. The NRA is the Neville Chamberlain of gun organizations. Weak, ineffectual, and sure that just a little more appeasement, just a few more infringements will finally be enough for the gun grabbers and would be tyrants.

      • The problem is your car actively does not want to be fixed. It is doing everything in its power not to be fixed. It has a long history of never operating properly re: NFA, bump stocks and so on.

        Your comparision is severely lacking and not even close to what is actually happening.

        With people like you on the 2A side we don’t need any enemies.

        • Debbie, I hate to chime in on your comment, but I also own a ’69 L79/ M40 droptop … fun car, but four production years later the fastest new car off of Chevy’s assembly line was a PICKUP TRUCK !! That’s kinda where the NRA is at, stuck in the past and bragging about what it WAS.

      • You should wash your hands of it and smugly state that this is the new normal. It absolves you of all responsibilities

        • Repair or replace. Attempts have been made to repair the NRA but none seem to have worked. There comes a time with cars and organizations, when over time, repairs and even attempts at a complete overhaul fail, thus replacement becomes necessary.

      • Give it a rest you old hag. That car is a POS, that you don’t own, and it’s not a Camaro, it’s a fairlane.

        • I never thought much of a 396 Chevy . Fords 390 will out run and out last them ,MoPars 383 made dogs out of both

        • Yes, the 383/413/440 was a fun motor, I lost count of how many Newports, New Yorkers and Chrysler 300s I have owned.

          There’s just something about a big land yacht, the way they float through the curves is magical.

      • Do your research. Even the author didn’t. The NRA was compromising way back in the 1930s when the first wave of gun control raised its ugly head. They have compromised many, many times over the decades since. But don’t expect them to extol their history because you won’t find THAT on their website. Truth is meaningless when you are paying your leader a cool $2M. How many contributions went to that?

        When the Chevy keeps breaking down, many of us moved on to Honda or Toyota and never looked back. Same with the NRA. The anti-gunners will do the Second Amendment supporters a favor by killing off the most polluted and compromising of the group.

      • As some others pointed out, it has a stock, not a brace, so it is a SBR. Being an SBR and not a pistol with a brace, the forward grip is good to go.

        After about an hour of research, as far as I can tell, it appears to be a HK MP5A3 SBR. It is available in semi, select-fire, and/or full-auto. So, it would tax stamped and semi-auto unless it belongs to a law enforcement agency.

        I didn’t see any clones that looked like the specific gun in the picture.

        Thanks for your help.

        • It matters only that the leader of a gun rights organization might have been publically violating Federal law (upon investigation, it appears that he isn’t).

          If he were publically violating Federal law, he would be harming the “law abiding gun owner” narrative.

          I’m all for getting the NFA, GCA, and all other gun laws repealed and think things like prohibiting forward grips on AR pistols is ridiculous.

    • SBR as it has a stock, or he is flexing his RR or sear gun. The real crime is having two random pieces of FDE on an otherwise all black gun.

      • Would a sear gun have to be a SBR unless permanently mated to the lower?. A lighting link on a AR-15 dose not give a free ride to do a SBR unless the lower itself is the M/G. Unless I am missing something.

        • Popular opinion is the lower becomes the M/G and any barrel length is gtg. Cannot seem to find a actual ATF letter or a official opinion.

    • I think it’s meant as a symbol of a non-fuddery gun/org vs what, in my opinion/perception, is the NRA. The NRA being the $5000 OU engraved shotty driven around in a golf cart with chrome wheels.

      I’ve been a NRA member a couple of times.

      What I would like to see from any organization is the senior leadership participating in shooting, not just doing photo ops. I want to see competition..I want to see a stage screwed up..I want to see that the leadership embraces all shooting.

      No sling on the MP5 clone? Doesn’t look too used….hmmm.

      • I just got done paying off that lifetime membership after 8 years. So, ya, I’m in that boat too…. I did get a neat sticker and pin though. And 8 years ago they sent me an American flag/bald eagle pocket knife…. that was made in China.

        • The previous two times I re-upped (I let my membership finally expire last year), I got a super crappy tote/duffel bag that is of the worst quality I’ve ever seen, and a flashlight that was so wonky, I had to convince someone to take it off my hands. You see, both had the letters “NRA” emblazoned on them, which actually makes them less valuable.

  1. Agree, BUT, like people who vote for Trump even though the dont like him. The NRA is not what it once was, but without them we probably wouldn’t be having this fight because we’d already be disarmed!

    • Without SAF, CCRKBA, JPFO, SAS, others, and the state organizations you’d already be disarmed. NRA only shows up when it looks like someone is going to achieve something. They steal the credit, get in the photo ops, and then they go back to advocating for gun control.

      They have repeatedly sold out every other sub groups of gun owners to protect deer and duck hunters.

      You know why the left talks so much shit about the NRA? Because THE LEFT WANTS THE NRA TO BE THE VOICE OF ALL GUN OWNERS IN THE US. Ask yourself why the anti gunners would want that.

      • Correct, Negotiating Rights Away is the best friend the gun grabbing Left have aiding them in their infringement of the 2 nd. amendment.

  2. He’s correct. Their headquarters are in Virginia and about the only thing they’ve accomplished is taking credit for the actions of VCDL.

    • Technically, NRA is the oldest civil rights organization in the US…. and Autocar is the oldest vehicle manufacturer in the US. Unless you need a new garbage truck built, the two of them are equally relevant today.

        • The natural environment for the AutoCar is in the garage for repair. If not at the dealer for recall or warranty work. That said, it is better than Volve/Mack.

    • They are more of a civil rights group than anything headed by jesse jackson, al sharpton or the dnc.

      Unfortunately they’ve taken their clues from the left and gotten corrupt.

  3. I need alot and alot more proof than just someone’s word. I’ve taken many NRA courses I’ve seen the political connections and the lawsuits the NRA has confronted the left time and time again. Are they perfect no. Do they have my support? Absolutely. NRA membership for just their support for shooting sports alone is well worth it.

    • That is a good point. I donated to the NRA last year specifically to support their training programs and shooting ranges. Even if that was *all* they did, membership would still be worth it…actually, maybe it’d be worth even more.

  4. Under WLP, the NRA has been primarily a fundraising organization, not a gun rights organization. They often ran Chicken-Little-sky-is falling calls for money because some minor Dem rep has some gun bill that had no chance of passing or being signed into law. They existed to fight, not win. Check out Richard Feldman’s book Ricochet for his experiences as an NRA lobbyist dealing with WLP.
    That said, I don’t believe in no-compromise in politics. An all-or-nothing attitude will get you nothing since you will not get it all. Yes, hold the line against further infringements and don’t lose ground. The NFA is an obvious infringement of 2A, but it’s legislative repeal is unrealistic, although a judicial victory is possible if more conservative Justices are appointed. Removing SBRs, suppressors, or the Hughes Ammendment would be a more realistic start if we truly had a pro-gun President who would push for it. The Dems have shown how a series of minor, incremental victories leads to overall victory. When something like Fix NICS is passed, take something back, like CCW reciprocity, HPA, or even just expanding NFA form processing staffing.

    • The reason “you will not get it all” is because cuckery rules the day in all things relating to liberty.
      Nobody wants to be “mean” while the other side commits acts of assault and arson.
      We can most definitely get it all. We just have to stop being a collection of boot-licking, whining, neo-con, Norman Rockwell LARPers and start tossing these petty tyrants out of helicopters.

      Never happen though. That would be “mean.”

  5. NRA has (had) three missions
    1. Just say no to gun control
    2, Train citizens (the militia) to shoot
    3 Run competitions so citizens can improve their marksmanship


    P.S Dudley Brown and the Naggers are not the answer. Look at THEIR record especially in Colorado.

    • I was wondering if anybody was going to say that WLP isn’t the only dud here.

      Surprised at how far I had to scroll down to find your comment.

    • Yeah, Dud Brown nearly set back gun rights in MS a few years ago by trying to force through a shoddily-written law and threatening our pro-gun legislators with revocation of support (such as it was at the time) if they didn’t pass it verbatim. They refused and passed a far better set of reforms a year later. So for their subpar legal acumen and strong-arm tactics with our political allies, screw NAGR.

  6. A friend of mine pointed out that WLP & Co. act the way the guys from La Coka Nostra talk.

    I laughed because it’s kinda true. Especially since Nostra’s debut album was called A Brand You Can Trust.

  7. If the NRA was effective (or honest), there would be NO gun control. there would be NO red flag states. Constitutional carry would be the law of the land. If not, there would be 100% reciprocity. The right to defend yourself, your family & property wouldn’t be a political issue.

    I wish membership to the NRA wasn’t a membership requirement at my range.

      • My favorite range pulled a 180 on that issue in the aftermath of the AWB. Not initially, it took a mass exodus to convince them to give up the req’s. To be fair, it was obvious what would occur, majority of the members owned MSR’s & were pissed.

    • If you are in charge of a civil rights organization, your goal is to do away with gun control.

      If you are in charge of a fundraising organization, your goal is to keep gun control alive by any means necessary. You don’t want to see gun control go away any more than the NAACP wants to see racial tension go away.

      • Yes, this is key. The NRA wants to keep the fight alive much more than it wants to keep the right alive. For them, the “fight” is the entire point.

  8. Yep…….and? So? At this moment, the democrat party has given us an opportunity by exposing, for all to see, what they will do if they take back the Presidency…..they will use “LawFare,” against 2nd Amendment groups….and you can bet your behind they will use the same tactic against gun makers and gun stores……so right now, forget about the problems in the NRA, and use this attack to attack the democrat party……..the time to go after the idiots at the NRA is after the election…….the democrats want to end gun ownership in the U.S. and they will not hesistate to use the government agencies to do it…

    • Uh, no. The NRA should have ceases existing years ago. You don’t just keep ignoring the problem until more problems exist.

  9. The NRA has followed the same path as the Government. In the beginning It had a Cause with the betterment of the citizens in mind. They worked to support the Rights of all citizens and make a place for all to safely prosper. As time went they began to be infiltrated by people who were more interested in the Power their positions gave them. With that Power came personal gain and influence in areas other than it’s original purpose. Once those people were able to reach positions of control and insert others with the same goals into positions that supported their control. The original Cause was no longer a part of the Equation. It was replaced by the Power, Influence and all the Monetary Gains that went along with their Positions. The Citizens simply became another income stream to further their Self Affirming Agenda. What were once Tools for the Betterment of All. Once allowed to self replicate for their Own Purposes. Destroy everything they were Intended to Protect.

    • Marion will be along any minute now,singing the praises of Wayne La Pew Pew,she doesn’t get it that there are No takers.

      • This ⬆️ It is unfortunate the NRA does not want to correct its problems and get back on track. Money and power do strange things to men, WLP is no different.

        Anyone else have the NRA call you every other day from a different 800 number everytime?

      • Did you ever get the feeling Wayne is not that interested in gun right but More in fancy meals and clothes If he ran the plumbers union he would have silk shirts and a pinky ring.

  10. Dang NAGR…whut have they ever done?!? I dropped the NRA in June. Fix it. Clean house. Get rid of old Wayne. Mebbe I’ll rejoin. Be the 800 pound gorilla. Meanwhile I’m joining other pro-2A groups. NAGR ain’t included.

  11. I can’t help but suspect that Brown is just jealous because NAGR has not been nearly as good at coercing money from members as the NRA has. Someone call me when NAGR notches an actual victory. (Internet bravado doesn’t count)

  12. A lot of hate on NAGR (RMGO in CO). Dudley and his ilk have done a shit load of fixing in CO. They were almost solely responsible in the recalls in 2013, the passage of State University carry, and (I’m fairly optimistic) about the state lawsuit to overturn the magazine ban here.

  13. Dudley Brown is not the best representative of civil rights in Colorado. I say this based on his own public statements in Colorado. He was not an active participant in the recall efforts several years ago. But he likes to take credit for them. Just like the NRA likes to take credit for things that they, were not really involved with.

  14. Ask not what the NRA can do for you but what y ou can do despite no support from the NRA.
    And that means supporting several gun rights groups. With several orgs running plays the left won t have one boogie man to blame and shame. It’s a better strategy and we really don’t need the NRA to persuade voters. The evening news does that already.

  15. The enemies of gun rights know and respect only one major vote organizing association, that also provides the most training and competition, they ONLY speak of the only one that can stop them: the National Rifle Association.

  16. All of you taking a victor lap remember the rest of the left is taking notes the next time a leftist gets in the oval office every 2nd Amendment rights group will have a target on their back.

  17. The board of the NRA is like the liberal democrats in congress……What’s good for me is good, Screw you just send us money.
    No pity here….Like to see Wayne & Hillary in the same cell.

  18. I’ve been an NRA Life member for a long time, and a Benefactor level lifer for close to twenty years. While I am aware of internal problems, and want them to get their house in order, I am steadfastly against abandoning the NRA because of a few disgruntled members. The mere fact that they exist and have been there since 1871 makes them the 900 lb gorilla in the room. The younger, smaller organizations have their place, and I belong to most of them, but they simply don’t have the lobbying weight that the NRA does, however flawed it might be. But even beyond all that, to have the New York AG try to destroy them has angered me beyond bearing. If they can take down the NRA, how long do you think the smaller outfits will last? How long before they kill the 2nd Amendment? That’s what the fight has gotten down to, and its all hands on deck. All of you stop whining and bring it to the fight. If we lose the NRA, we lose the rest too.

    • When I’m dealing with crazy people, I don’t want an out of control 900 pound untamed gorrilla bothering me.

      • So, fix the problem. Instead of running your mouth, and grabbing the pitchforks and torches, put pressure on the NRA leadership to fix the problems. Nobody alive today was around when the NFA was put in place, yet the NRA gets blamed for that. Couldn’t possibly have had something to do with an all Democrat Congress, and FDR could it? All you people who are so eager to destroy things really piss me off.

        • Many of us have tried from calling the NRA to writing them and to dropping our memberships and stating why.

          Every board member and even Oliver North has been shown the door when they try to steer the organization back in the right direction.

          Now please tell us what your brilliant plan is for fixing it?

        • “Instead of running your mouth, and grabbing the pitchforks and torches, put pressure on the NRA leadership to fix the problems.”

          John, you have got to be kidding me. Are you *seriously* that fucking clueless?

          LaPierre has booted from the NRA board everyone who has called for change at the top.


          Here, Gary Oldman will explain it to you :

        • *EVERYONE*

          Is that clear enough for you?

          Now, what do propose we do now?

  19. So, how the hell *do* you save the NRA? Some board members tried a while back and were ousted for their effort. The finks in power were warned that a reckoning was coming but for all appearances did nothing to alter course. The NY AG has made it obvious that their endgame is to go for the kill, not cut out the cancer. So what is the plan? If the NRA beats the lawsuit their dirty laundry will still be aired and I sure as hell don’t want to be paying for LaPierre et all’s suits and vacations. There maybe a lot of current members stick with it but recruitment is going to be kneecapped for decades to come. Without growth and with the finks still in power, well, a 800lb gorilla in a room is a joke when it’s testicles are nailed to the floor. If the NRA looses then it’s dead. So what would be a win and how would you do it?

    • “So what would be a win and how would you do it?”

      Unless WLP capitulates, we have few options.

      About the best is to re-group in a 2A-friendly state like North Dakota…

  20. A member because my gun club requires it. Moving to Fla. soon and the local shooting range is private so I’ll let my membership lapse and support GOA with my money.

  21. I am still a member of the NRA for another four years. Already paid for. I will continue to support the PVL and ILA for the next four years, hopefully by then they will get refocused on what the NRA was supposed to be. However, in the mean time I will also support NAGR and a couple other groups.

    It is time to rethink the management of the NRA, but exactly who would be best to assume command? The position is way too political for me. How many people do you know that could truly play that game?

    • “It is time to rethink the management of the NRA, but exactly who would be best to assume command?”

      My vote is for Sheriff David Clarke, he is the *perfect* image for a re-imagined gun rights organization that has a big tent…

  22. CSB time: there was a time when I went to a lot of Friends of the NRA functions. It’s a good cause, they do a lot of work for training and team sports etc. Candidates for the NRA Board would circulate around the tables from time to time gladhanding and trying to make their names know. One sat down to talk for a bit so I asked him about what I thought was a hot topic at the time: “What’s your position on the Hearing Protection Act?”

    He said “What’s that?”

    Of course he got elected. But I think this goes a long way toward explaining why with a Republican House, Senate and Presidency we got nothing. POTG and Republicans have to learn: the Dems are playing to win. We have to play to win as well. Just skating by isn’t good enough. If we don’t make affirmative gains, we’ll continue to get ground down and nibbled to death.

  23. I can tell they’re out of touch idiots due to the acronym. Sascha Cohen or the like will probably end it for them and in any case they’re not going to accomplish anything.

  24. I’ve shot all my life and never belonged to the NRA. I think I’m gonna sign up now. I’ve heard a lot of good, knowledgeable people complain and criticize the NRA. I see a need, a big, important, immediate need to support the NRA right now. Who’s next ? First the low hanging fruit then they’ll reach higher and higher. Always do.

    • You get it. Dudley Do-Right is famous for sending nothing but fund-raising calls with cool bumper stickers. Being a member of NAGR is like having a Yeti coolers sticker on the back window of your Tacoma. Makes you look like you do things. Whatever problems with the NRA, this joker is not your friend. NAGR has been a part of NOT ONE SINGLE major victory at the Supreme Court. NRA-ILA has literally passes dozens of laws in every state in America. This man is utterly unethical and it’s disturbing how this site keeps pushing him. Someone is getting paid.

  25. “Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. That’s the only way to become what you were meant to be”

    You want to save the NRA, an organization so infiltrated by money grubbing scum that does nothing to help us? If you want to compare it to a big-block Chevelle, it would be one with a rusted out frame, bondo out the ass, blown rods, a messed up tranny, and mismatching numbers. It may have been fast once, but it isn’t worth restoring and is a death trap. Time for it to go and a newer, stronger organization to take it’s place (I’m looking at you SAF).


  27. What many don’t seem to grasp is that all these organizations are at various times working at many different levels of government, and this is where lots of problems come together! While people perceive the NRA as a national organization, quite often it is attacked at the state and local levels. The same thing happens with NAGR. They have been fighting a major lawsuit brought on by the State of Montana that went on to the Supreme Court. No matter where the fight goes, it goes on at all levels! I’ve belonged to the NRA most of my life and I’m currently a Patriot Life Benefactor member. I don’t buy into most things they try to sell, but I support them at the local activity level. I’ve also been a “Front Line Defender” member of NAGR ever since Dudly started the program. He does a lot of work that goes unappreciated by most. He’s more of a man in the background getting the smaller things done that often get overlooked! I joined FPC years ago when I lived in CA (thank God I got out of there) and numerous other firearms based organizations! (I even belong to the group ABGM (All Black Guns Matter)).

  28. One point I have heard is that the NRA is its dues paying members and not Wayne La Pierre, his wife, his Mistress, and his cronies. In all likelyhood WLP and some others might end up being prosecuted and jailed, but NRA not dissolved. One question is if money is recovered from WLP and others whose money is it? What about all of the other assets (who owns the building)? Certainly not the state of New York, but probably the organization and therefore, collectively, it’s members. Bottom line it is possible that the New York Attorney might have done us members a collective favor getting rid of WLPs Posse and maybe ultimately saving and strengthening the organization.

  29. “Has been AWOL for decades”, bullshit the NRA has been out to demolish second amendment rights for decades.

  30. I’m in California, I gave up on the nra over a decade ago, one draconian law after another and the nra was MIA. Why give money to an organization to fight for my rights when they don’t fight for my rights…I give to local gun rights groups who actually file lawsuits and take action.

  31. Well this is the pot calling the kettle black. The NAGR has no legislative wins. All they do is fear monger about the NRA and collect dues, which they’ve done nothing with. Screw Dudley and the NAGR. The SAF and the FPC are the only real 2A rights groups that do anything and get anything accomplished. Your money is wasted elsewhere and is merely used to line someone’s pockets.


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