![](https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/AP23045174642903-scaled.jpg)
A gunman who opened fire at Michigan State University killed three people and wounded five, setting off an hourslong manhunt as frightened students hid in classrooms and cars. The shooter eventually killed himself, police announced early Tuesday.
Police said Tuesday that the gunman was 43-year-old Anthony McRae. Police also say five people who are in critical condition Tuesday are also students.
Officials do not know why McRae targeted the campus. He was not a student or employee and had no affiliation with the university, according to campus police.
![](https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/AP23045205788246.jpg)
McRae shot himself miles away from campus while being confronted by police.
The shooting began Monday night at an academic building and later moved to the nearby student union, a popular gathering spot for students to eat or study. As hundreds of officers scoured the East Lansing campus, about 90 miles (145 kilometers) northwest of Detroit, students hid where they could. Four hours after the first shots were reported, police announced the man’s death.
![Anthony McRae](https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/MSU-shooter.jpg)
“This truly has been a nightmare we’re living tonight,” said Chris Rozman, interim deputy chief of the campus police department.
…… ” while students cowered in
their cars and dorms.”
Can you say gunfree zone without actually saying gunfree zone ?
This.
I saw someone post an EDC labeling it “college EDC” and it had a gun in a backpack. Turns out, the student left his gun in his vehicle while attending classes to “avoid being spotted with it”. After questioning, he admitted the state he was in and that it was totally legal to carry on campus. Even if it wasn’t, you’d still have it in your car – on campus. So the next questions were of course “what the fuck do you mean ‘spotted’?” and “what good is it if it’s in your truck and not on you?”. His responses were by far the most cringe shit I’ve seen in a while. Something along the lines of “it’s not comfortable to conceal” and “what if someone sees it in my backpack or on my body” followed by the “I still have access to it in my car, it’s not parked that far away”.
Some people you just can’t talk sense into. New carrier or not, clearly did not do any research, does not practice concealment or dress for it, thinks it will be spotted in his backpack like he just constantly flashes the contents of it to everyone, and lastly, thinks they will have plenty of time to retreat. Needless to say, the EDC post was clearly a clout chase and every single comment they left was downvoted to oblivion. Of course, there were those that thanked him for something along the lines of being reasonable and not taking it to class… lol. Like they’d ever know he was carrying in any situation if done properly, even off body, in any location – not even school specific.
This common misconception of popular opinion is what these gunfree zone believers need to overcome. They simply cannot understand the “rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6” mentality. You might be breaking a law, but you’ll be alive. If you get “caught”, there is always more to the reason why you got caught and 99.9% of the time, you only have yourself to blame for it.
A gov’t college campus (in MICHIGAN) that has not prohibited carry? Provide a footnote as there is about 0.001% chance that is correct.
You are correct..
Michigan law expressly prohibits concealed handgun license holders from carrying on or in a dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university. See Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.237a(1)(h). Universities also retain the authority to restrict firearms on other parts of campus, and generally choose to do so, like the University of Michigan.
However, Michigan State University Board of Trustees does allow visitors (but not employees or students) to carry concealed firearms on university property, except inside dormitories and classrooms.
clearly a mental health issue..if you want to shoot people you go where they’re concentrated…
this won’t stay in the news too long, doesn’t appear to fit the popular narrative.
Please tell me he’s at least Catholic.
Why? What does that have to do with it?
Attorneys general are demanding answers from the FBI and DOJ, saying the agencies’ internal memo labeled Catholics as racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists.
“No. This whole investigation is a pretext to persecute the political enemies of the left, and it’s a testimony to just how corrupt the FBI has become,” Evita Duffy said. “They labeled traditional Catholics racist, White supremacist and violent, but didn’t explain at all how they were racist or violent and instead only cited thought crimes for Catholics — their stance on LGBTQ issues and on abortion.”
Ah, yeah. I’d forgotten about that. I read a report that the memo was “withdrawn”. Yup, it’s good now. They don’t believe that anymore. Right? Right? /sarc
You are correct, this probably will be suppressed because of the religious angle:
“On Facebook, McCrae’s cover photo was a Bible verse: Luke 10:19.
It reads, “I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.”
The page was deleted by Facebook, but it was archived“
… and the claim is that it’s your daughter Clementine that is lost and gone forever.
Liar49er, please connect the dots for me as I am unable to make the connection.
Shooter committed this act because he posted religious items on his FB page?
Religion, specifically Christianity, drove him to commit these murders?
Christians condone and promote murder and violence against others?
Please specify as I am unsure what to make of this relation between religion and the shooter’s motive.
miner is not an atheist. He has absolute faith in .gov.
The same .gov that murders in the millions annually. Combine all the religions in the world and they do not have a body count to match .gov. And miner worships at the feet of .gov.
I think you’ll be waiting a while, while Miner49’s mother is adjusting his tin foil hat.
The “insinuation” is that the perps “skydaddy” got in his head and told him to go out and kill a bunch of kids, minerva equates the “kill em all and let God sort em out” (I actually kind of like that one myself) mentality of the OT to ALL Christians…
“Religion, specifically Christianity, drove him to commit these murders?“
I can guarantee you it was not an atheist who told him that demons are real and can attack people, I wonder where he got his particular delusion about the actual existence of demons?
“Christians condone and promote murder and violence against others?“
Well yes, have you not read the Bible?
When Hitler assumed power in Germany, the first treaty he signed was with the Vatican.
When Mussolini took power in Germany, the first treaty he signed was with the Vatican.
“kill em all and let God sort em out” (I actually kind of like that one myself) mentality of the OT to ALL Christians… “
Now hold on just a minute, don’t all Christians revere and follow the Old Testament as the Word of God?
“I think you’ll be waiting a while, while Miner49’s mother is adjusting his tin foil hat.“
Pck, please be patient, there are many on the list who need enlightenment.
And please tell me, where would one procure this ‘tin foil’ you speak of, thanks!
Marx is his god and oppressive big government is his church.
A faith that resulted in the deaths of more than 100 million in the last century.
MINOR Miner48er, Psst! I suggest you read the New Testament of the Bible. You are in for an education.
Gun free zones doing exactly what the hoplophobic Democrats have always wanted, allow criminals to be armed and murder people indiscriminately
the Crime Prevention Research Center, “gun-free zones” (areas where guns are prohibited) have been the target of more than 98% of all mass shootings. This staggering number is why such designated areas are often referred to as “soft targets,” meaning unprotected and vulnerable.another analysis focused on mass public shootings between 1998 and 2018 and reported that 97.8 percent of incidents took place in gun-free zones (Crime Prevention Research Center, 2018a). The study, done by The Rand Corporation in 2018 and updated in 2020, examined eight areas of firearm use: defensive gun use, gun industry outcomes, hunting and recreation, mass shootings, officer-involved shooting, suicide, unintentional injuries and deaths, and violent crime.
Rand’s study maintains it found “no qualifying studies showing that gun-free zones decreased any of the eight outcomes we investigated.”
As noted in October 2015, only two mass shootings in the U.S. since 1950 have occurred in an area where citizens were not prohibited from carrying a gun. And it wasn’t until the 1990’s that gun free zones were created by unconstitutional laws and enforced by oath violators; since the 1990’s mass public shootings went from about 1-4/ year to 100’s/ year….
Yep. This guy traveled several miles to find a target-rich and permissive environment…
Damn those cameras, they completely ruined our opportunity to “discover” and insert a right wing racist election denier white kid with multiple assault rifles in his car and on his person.
…. we’ll save that story for next time. You reporters can all go home now
violently mentally ill person, campus is gun free zone.
over 120 million law abiding gun owners did not do this, but one violently mentally ill person did do this.
gun free zones, defined:
“gun (gŭn) free (frē) zone (zōn)
* Trap in which people prey congregate and are falsely promised safety by a make believe force field of a ‘No Guns” prohibition.
* A place where people prey are disarmed and not permitted self-defense with firearms.
* Hunting grounds for predator criminals where defenseless people prey is guaranteed by law.
* Place where existing laws against violent crimes do not work to prevent violent crimes the laws are touted to be able to prevent.
* Places designed to attract violently mentally ill predators.
* Places where police forces cease to operate to protect before the fact of a violent crime as they are touted to be able to do by politicians implying.”
guns did not cause this, mental illness aided by a ‘gun free zone’ did this.
In the Journal of Threat Assessment and Management. (Lankford, A., & Cowan, R. G. (2020)) ( https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Ftam0000151 )
… Cowan writes of their research they “…closely analyzed public mass shooters who attacked in the United States from 1966 to 2019 and found that correlates of mental illness were approximately equally common among perpetrators, whether they had been coded as mentally ill or not.”
Forensic psychiatrists James L. Knoll IV, MD, and George D. Annas, MD, MPH, of SUNY Upstate Medical University in Syracuse New York, both leading authorities on the mental health aspects of mass shooters, summed it up for the issue for the mental health community various studies on various aspects in terms of mass shooters…. Although mass shooters may not meet DSM-5 criteria for a recognized disorder, “they do have an ill-defined trouble of the mind for which the mental health field has no immediate, quick-acting ‘treatment,’” – in other words, mass shooters do have mental illness driving them but not something clearly defined and for which the mental health community basically has no treatment.
from the other article and reports:
“The incident began in Berkey Hall where people were shot in a couple of first floor classrooms. About an hour later, more were shot at an intramural building known as IM East.”
A mass shooter has, on average, minimum 3 minutes kill area dominance in each target zone without stress of being stopped by police, has 15 seconds or less kill area dominance time when an ordinary armed citizen present engages them by firearm.
But an hour? Now we know where the fired Uvalde response law enforcement went to work.
And now we find out that not only did the police not stop this violent mentally ill person (McRae) in the ‘no guns’ zone, that McRae actually got away from the scene because… “McRae shot himself miles away from campus while being confronted by police.”
Just one ordinary citizen (student or staff) with a firearm would have had an over 1,200 times greater chance of stopping McRae before he shot others in the kill zones than police had.
“mass shooters do have mental illness driving them but not something clearly defined and for which the mental health community basically has no treatment“
That would seem to indicate that attempts to identify these individuals early will be unsuccessful as they have no clearly defined mental illness.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, there is currently a “campus carry” Bill before the West Virginia State Legislature.
Personally, I am in favor of this current campus carry Bill as it mandates those folks have a valid West Virginia CCW that requires both classroom instruction and demonstration of proficiency on a live fire range.
“both classroom instruction and demonstration of proficiency on a live fire range.”
That should be a given for ANY 18-20 year old American citizen. Instead they must hide under blankets.
“That should be a given for ANY 18-20 year old American citizen. Instead they must hide under blankets“
I’m sorry, but it seems firearms training is available everywhere in America, and usually at a very reasonable expense.
I do think that sort of training should be offered in high school, with an opt out option for those who don’t ever wish to carry a firearm.
“I do think that sort of training should be offered in high school, with an opt out option for those who don’t ever wish to carry a firearm.”
That’s a good idea. You basically end up with required training for everyone that wants it without trampling on any rights. People can opt out if they don’t want anything to do with guns.
Different groups live in their own bubble. POG are no different. I’ve noticed they tend to project their knowledge of firearms onto others. Not everyone had a father or grandfather that taught them how to handle guns. Most people aren’t gun forum bros, even among gun owners.
And if that person that opted out decides in a few years to opt in, miner? Will you tell them no? They had their chance?
Requiring training and a state permit to exercise a human and civil right? How fascist of you.
“And if that person that opted out decides in a few years to opt in, miner? Will you tell them no? They had their chance?“
Of course not, as I stated above, there are opportunities to get training everywhere here in United States.
While I believe any adult American (with no debilitating factors) should be allowed to possess a firearm, I believe that those who wish to carry that firearm in public spaces shared with other citizens should be required to have classroom instruction on the rights, responsibilities and obligations as well as demonstrate proficiency on a live fire range.
pains me to defend, but because it was available as curriculum does not prevent the availability at a later time.
minor49iq…You can move on to committing on the perp who criminally misused a U-Haul vehicle in NYC to mow down people in the same mental manner the perp criminally misused a firearm at the college in MI…try not to be your usual biased self.
Debbie W. are you on drugs? Your post in incomprehensible.
@Innocent Bystander
“Debbie W. are you on drugs? Your post in incomprehensible.”
Its has a ‘parallel’ context to it from another event. One you missed, maybe because you had not heard of it.
I comprehended her post just fine.
Incomprehensible?
I had zero problems understanding what Debbie wrote.
The problem is *you*, little boy.
Debbie W. are you on drugs? Your post in incomprehensible.
IB, she was referring to the asshole who drove a U-Haul truck down a sidewalk in NYC yesterday injuring a number of individuals, other than (committing vs commenting) her post made perfect sense to anyone with a newsfeed or watches 30 minutes of news on TV…
“You can move on to committing on the perp who criminally misused a U-Haul”
Sure, thanks!
With only one unfortunate person killed, I’m sure glad he didn’t have an MSR with a 90rd drum mag.
“The driver, a 62-year-old man now in police custody, is believed to be the lone actor in a puzzling rampage through the borough’s Bay Ridge and Sunset Park neighborhoods. And although the motive remains unclear, the NYPD commissioner stated no evidence currently suggests any terrorism involvement in she called a “violent rampage.”
Absolutely Nothing to do with Mental Illness. That is just the latest attempt by politicians and the Fake News media is explain away the Acts of EVIL being committed by Violent Criminals. In order to finance more medical gobbledygook and waste tax dollars. The more children and society are indoctrinated to believe that everything that goes wrong in their lives is due to a mental illness. The more mental illness is used as the excuse for failure. The more it becomes an excuse for crime and the circle of excuses continues of. It’s NOT my fault, I have a mental illness.
It’s also a modern euphemism for addict. That’s why we’re hearing about “mental illness” all the time now. Drug use is up.
MINOR Miner49er Psst! We would love to be able to “identify” these mentally ill people and prevent them for buying a firearm. You see the problem, my Leftist adversary is that thing you Lefties insisted on. HIPPA.
Killer identified ….
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2023/02/14/breaking-msushooting-gunman-idd-as-43-year-old-anthony-mcrae/
https://twitter.com/agravnhoj/status/1625420981241102336/photo/2
https://twitter.com/RanjeevPuri/status/1625368903776972800
Rep. Ranjeev Puri
@RanjeevPuri
“Today, we begin to collectively heal from the horrific events which transpired, tomorrow we work.
“My official statement regarding the Michigan State University shooting is below:
“Fuck your thoughts and prayers.”
Bigots gonna bigot. That’s real helpful. Taking a stab in the dark here, he’s a Democrat, right?
Rep. Ranjeev Puri
@RanjeevPuri
“Today, we begin to collectively heal from the horrific events which transpired, tomorrow we work.
“My official statement regarding the Michigan State University shooting is below:
“Fuck your thoughts and prayers.”
Wonder if the families of the dead and wounded agree with this fucking heathen…
maxx, they probably voted for him.
“Rep. Ranjeev Puri
Fuck your thoughts and prayers.”
Oh, look – A white supremacist bigot learned how to use a computer…
Rep. Ranjeev Puri
Fuck your thoughts and prayers.”
Oh, look – A white supremacist bigot learned how to use a computer…
Bigot? Hell yeah, White Supremacist? As a Punjabi Sikh, probably not
“As a Punjabi Sikh, probably not”
I think that was sarcasm, Max…
I think that was sarcasm, Max…
I don’t care… What is this Saturday Night Live now? If everybody is now doing “sarcasm” then why bother posting anything… (might be sarcasm)……..(might not) you decide…
Can’t wait to hear how it’s my fault
The shooter eventually killed himself,
If these fucking morons would only do that last thing first…
If the good stuff was legal, he would have been at least too stoned to leave the house.
It seems he was on a much more powerful drug:
“On the page, the man named Anthony McRae, posted a series of Bible verses, which made reference to fighting against demons.“
https://mediatakeout.com/michigan-state-shooter-was-black-man-anthony-mcrae-facebook-page-filled-w-bible-verses/amp/
And yet you’re doing just fine.
Why did he think those particular people were demons? Do we know anything about the victims? Did the Bible tell him to go to the school instead of shooting up the local police department? I thought the police were the evil ones.
Liar49er, please elaborate.
“It seems he was on a much more powerful drug: …”
Posting religious messages on social media is the cause of the perp’s criminal acts? I am confused; I am in need of your guidance.
How about this statement from the esteemed Michigan House Majority Whip, Rep. Ranjeev Puri, Democrat:
“My official statement regarding the Michigan State University shooting is below:
“Fuck your thoughts and prayers.”
Imagine seeing this from your representative if your child/relative/friend was just injured or killed by the shooter. He’s immediately using their tragedy to push his politics and denigrate religion. What an ass.
He was a convicted felon who should have been in prison.
It looks like he recently served about 18 months which seems like a lot in this day and age. Was he prohibited from carrying? He was able to murder because he ignored multiple “gun control/safety” laws?
He was able to murder because he ignored multiple “gun control/safety” laws?
Dude, please, do NOT confuse minerva with trivial facts, it creates a conflict between his two living brain cells, the one that knows you are right and the one controlled by his progressive masters that just won’t let him admit it…
“He was a convicted felon who should have been in prison“
But if his felony was just being charged with having a fireman in his car, according to most on this list he should never have been charged with a crime.
“Was he prohibited from carrying?“
According to the constitutional originalists, which constitutional provision could’ve prohibited him from carrying a firearm?
“Posting religious messages on social media is the cause of the perp’s criminal acts? I am confused; I am in need of your guidance.“
I’m glad to help, I don’t think posting religious messages on social media was the cause of the perp’s criminal acts.
But I do believe that the posting of religious messages on his social media pages were a symptom of his homicidal delusion regarding demons that had been planted in his mind by religious teachings in his environment.
I can promise you that no atheist ever told him that demons were real and could attack and harm people, it had to be some Bible believing religionist who came up with that delusion.
A list of great atheists. Stalin, Mao, Hitler.
They don’t believe in demons. Just murder.
They sure do love their satanic/demonic symbolism.
Liar49er
>“Christians condone and promote murder and violence against others?“
“Well yes, have you not read the Bible?”
No, I haven’t; I’m not Christian. Yet I don’t recall any of the Ten Commandments approving of murder and I never received the impression that the religion of Christianity promotes murder; in fact, during my upbringing in the Church I was taught that murder is sinful and against the laws of Man and Nature.
“I don’t think posting religious messages on social media was the cause of the perp’s criminal acts.”
OK, one down. You weren’t clear on what you were insinuating.
“But I do believe that the posting of religious messages on his social media pages were a symptom of his homicidal delusion regarding demons that had been planted in his mind by religious teachings in his environment.”
And you have evidence for this, apparently. No?
Or you’re a psychological expert who can diagnose someone by what they post on social media. No?
“I can promise you that no atheist ever told him that demons were real and could attack and harm people, it had to be some Bible believing religionist who came up with that delusion.”
You can promise me? It’s just as likely that it was an atheist trying to influence a mentally-ill person to commit a crime in the name of religion and no “Bible believing religionist” had anything to do with it. Since you’re only speculating, I can speculate just as well, and anything is possible.
“during my upbringing in the Church I was taught that murder is sinful“
Numbers 31:17-18 KJV
17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.”
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or th e wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
“murder is sinful and against the laws of Man and Nature“
Interesting, man and nature but not God?
Maybe you should look at the “New Testament” AKA the CHRISTIAN bible…. You want to live in and quote the OT that’s okay, but don’t plant that shit on Christians because they don’t follow that doctrine.
Miner,
You’re conflating murder with war and capital punishment. Murder was specifically forbidden, as you well know.
I noticed you post the same few verses from the Bible over and over. I’m willing to bet that you didn’t just happen on these as you were studying the Bible. Some other Miner, in another forum, or article, posted that for your consumption and dissemination. Now you do the same for future Miners.
“Christians because they don’t follow that doctrine“
So the OT is out?
Great, the LGBTQ community will be thrilled that no true Christians would follow that ‘man lying with a man deserving death’ doctrine.
Hey wait a minute…
Matthew 5:18
“For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled”
“the LGBTQ community will be thrilled that no true Christians would follow…”
More subject changing/goal post moving…It’s funny how you’re pretending that Christians want to kill the alphabet mafia, when you know it’s Muslims who are literally doing that to this day. Like you’ve said multiple times, you’ll always defend Muslims. That’s because they’re part of your political tribe. Christians, on the other hand, are your political (tribal) enemies. It would be a different story if Christians tended to vote for Democrats and Muslims tended to vote for Republicans.
“Like you’ve said multiple times, you’ll always defend Muslims“
Nope, the Muslims are just as delusional as the rest of the theist believers.
And Muslims certainly have committed their share of atrocities, although the raw number is probably not as high as the Judeo/Christian efforts because they’ve been at it longer.
So tell me friend, when I have I ever defended Muslims for anything?
-insert crickets sound clip here-
MINOR Miner49er. Did you forget Justice Scalia’s quote on how government may make “reasonable regulations”?
“insert crickets”
Miner,
You said that multiple times, and I’ve called you on it multiple times. I honestly can’t tell if you really don’t remember or you’re pretending not to. Anyway, here you are defending them again, in a round about way. You pretended like it was Christians killing the alphabet crew when you know very well it’s Muslims.
“Miner,
You’re conflating murder with war and capital punishment“
The first verse commands the killing of women and children, that’s murder even in war time.
The second verse advocates domestic violence simply for having a different faith, not war as you claim but rather straight-ahead murder.
I don’t know how your memory is holding up Miner, but we had a long discussion about the first verse since that’s one of your favorite verses. You post it constantly. Yes, it was war. Go find our previous discussion. I’m not redoing that for you.
The second verse isn’t advocating for murder. It’s capital punishment for a crime. You don’t have to agree with the crime or the punishment, but that’s what it was. People were aware of the crime and the consequences. It was a brutal time period. They didn’t mess around with apostates sowing division within the tribe. As always, there’s plenty of context to look to outside of any singular verse to better understand it.
“Yes, it was war“
Nope, their ‘loving god’ sent them to invade their neighbors and take their land. He commanded them to kill women and children. (at least they claimed ‘god made me do it’).
You don’t think killing women and children (even during wartime) is murder?
Where do you get your morals, they seem a bit lacking.
“It’s capital punishment for a crime”
“They didn’t mess around with apostates sowing division within the tribe“
It doesn’t excuse murder to claim “My BIL whispered to me we should worship Baal, let’s kill him and take his shit”
But it does help me to understand the Crusades and the Catholic Church’s various Inquisitions.
Even the Salem witch trials right here in America were naked property grabs.
(You may want to research ‘Giles Corey)
Wait a minute, do you believe ‘God’ was leading the Witchfinders hired by the Puritans?
Christianity is all about escaping personal responsibility for your actions.
You can kill, rape, steel, and then just beg forgiveness and all is good.
Again, your morals seem a bit compromised.
And no, I’ve never defended the Muslims for their crimes, it’s just another of your bullshit claims without any support or evidence.
Like I said, we’ve discussed this before. Your memory is lacking. I’m sorry to be the one to tell you this, but women and children die in war. That’s why we should avoid war. The current propaganda makes you think we’re sticking it to Putin, but there’s much more to it. It gets real messy. Tribal conflicts can span many generations. Look at the Sunni vs Shiite Muslims. Why can’t they just get along? If a father was killed in a tribal war, his son would grow up to keep the tribal conflict going. They would marry the girls to incorporate them into the tribe, so they wouldn’t be future enemies. Survival can be brutal, but you try to survive and protect your family or tribe. You have zero interest in learning or understanding the context about anything.
It doesn’t excuse murder to claim “My BIL whispered to me we should worship Baal, let’s kill him and take his shit”
When there’s a law and a punishment for breaking said law, that’s called capital punishment. You’re ignoring all context and trying to understand one verse through your current day lens. Punishment for a crime is different from murder. Words have meaning.
“Wait a minute, do you believe ‘God’ was leading the Witchfinders hired by the Puritans?”
You don’t believe any of that. Christians are adamantly against murder. This is common knowledge. You seem to be clinging to a couple of Old Testament verses, without sincerely studying any context, in order to hate religion. And yes, we know you hate it. You disparage it every chance you get.
Now that I think about it, you also cling to the Salem witch trials, the Crusades, and slavery. You’re always bringing those things up. You judge me based on what other people did centuries ago. You can’t let it go and judge me by my own personal actions. If you did that, you might have to accept me as a decent person. We can’t have that because I’m not from your tribe. I must be bad because your tribe is right and my tribe is wrong.
“Again, your morals seem a bit compromised.”
There you go again with the personal insults. Now you want to judge my morals? Do you think I’m pro-murder, Miner? Is that your takeaway here? Is that the best you can do? By the way, I’m about as pro-life as they come. You’ve read enough of my comments to know that. You’re stooping low because that’s all you seem to have.
“And no, I’ve never defended the Muslims for their crimes”
You said, verbatim, “I will always defend Muslims.” You’re either conveniently forgetting that conversation, or you have a terrible memory. I called you on it immediately, and then you did it again in that same thread, and I called you on it again. I showed how you did it above. You blamed Christians for something Muslims do. You’re either lying or forgetting.
Nope, their ‘loving god’ sent them to invade their neighbors and take their land.
Funny thing, in Ukraine they are calling that very thing a WAR… Well technically Putin is calling it a military action, but the rest of the world is calling “the war in Ukraine”…
“You said, verbatim, “I will always defend Muslims”
You are straight up lying.
Claiming your God told you to kill so it’s morally correct is bullshit, no matter what you call your deity.
Muslims are no better than the other delusional religions, they did get a late start on murder and genocide so their raw numbers probably aren’t as high as many of the other more archaic religions but they are doing their part!
“I showed how you did it above. You blamed Christians for something Muslims do.“
You haven’t shown any proof of your claim, and Christians and Muslims have both been guilty of the crime of genocide, which you choose to mischaracterize as ‘war’.
Civilizations have recognized for years that genocide is not a legitimate war tactic, and is in fact a ‘crime against humanity’.
Killing any ethnic group because they don’t share your delusional religious belief is murder.
I am not straight up lying. You’re either continuing your lie or my memory is much better than yours. You said that a couple of years ago, in the context that right wingers might disparage Muslims, that you would always take up for them. After being called out, you went on to say they were just as nonsensical as Christians. I’ve seen you do something to that effect several times. You disparage Christians. Then someone mentions Muslims, and you’re like, yeah them too. It’s funny how you don’t go around disparaging Muslims in the same way you do Christians. That’s because Muslims are a part of your political tribe. You can deny it all you want, but you literally blamed Christians for something Muslims do, above in this thread! I called you out on it. Of course you can’t admit to anything, even with the evidence staring us in the face. You’d lie until the bitter end about anything. Then you preach to us about lacking morals.
“recognized for years that genocide is not a legitimate war tactic”
Here you are again looking at it through your current, modern day lens. That particular verse is literally discussing the history of a tribal conflict from thousands of years ago. No one here is claiming we should kill other ethnic groups because they have different beliefs. If God told them how to conduct their warfare, then that was how they could end up surviving. You’d like for us to believe that if you were present there thousands of years ago, you would allow some other tribe to run over your family as long as you wouldn’t have to kill anyone. I might actually believe that if it weren’t for your current position on being okay with killing your baby in your girlfriend’s or wife’s womb so she doesn’t have to worry about any extra responsibility as a consequence of her deciding to have sex.
@Miner49
“can promise you that no atheist ever told him that demons were real…”
you must think they are real. no one who thinks something is not real spends so much time arguing it isn’t real and trying to sway every point into the religion aspect. So how long have you had these religious based delusions that others belief and faith in a religious based aspect is not as real to them as you think your atheism faith religion is real to you?
oh, and maybe not him specifically but atheist do tell people demons are real. atheist believe in evil, they just don’t believe in the Christian or other religious aspect of evil and their demons of evil are everyone else with christian or other religion based faith while oddly being accepting of a Satan devil worship based faith which many atheist practice.
how long have you been shielded from the real world and have you sought professional mental health help for your religion based delusions?
“your atheism faith religion“
There is no faith involved in atheism, atheism is merely the disbelieve in the god(s) claims.
Mostly due to a lack of evidence.
“atheist do tell people demons are real. atheist believe in evil“
Nope. In reality there are many different flavors of atheism, because it’s not a religion, there is no doctrine or dogma so people are free to disbelieve what they want.
But they all pretty much share the position of being unconvinced of the supernatural, especially the god claims.
There is no faith involved in atheism,
Of course there is, every belief requires faith in something.. An atheist is operating on the belief/faith that there is no God, no Heaven, no Hell…
“An atheist is operating on the belief/faith that there is no God, no Heaven, no Hell… “
Nope. It’s a matter of not believing the positive claim there is a god.
The default position on any claim is disbelief, until sufficient evidence is presented to warrant belief.
I don’t discount the possibility deities exist, I just haven’t seen any evidence to support the proposition.
The theistic religions make the claim of the existence of their gods, as they made the claim the burden of proof is upon them.
I’m not convinced of Bigfoot either, although I will say there’s more evidence for the existence of Sasquatch because there are living eyewitnesses who have testified under oath as to their experiences.
MINOR Miner49er By our definition of “faith”, your lack of any belief in the one true God is a “faith”.
“The default position on any claim is disbelief”
Having a default position doesn’t make it right. Anyone can have any default position they want. Sometimes they’ll be right. Sometimes they’ll be wrong. If someone reasons that they’re an atheist because they can’t prove the existence of God, then why wouldn’t they use that same logic of believing in God because they can’t disprove His existence? If you aren’t really being logical, then what are you doing? You’re espousing a belief.
“I don’t discount the possibility deities exist”
If you’re open to the idea of God existing, then I don’t think you’re really an atheist. I’m pretty sure the textbook definition is one who denies the existence of God.
“because there are living eyewitnesses”
What happens when those eyewitnesses die? Do you begin to believe they never really existed? How many creations can you point to without a creator? Our planet and the life here is extremely complex. You should look into the science on how all of that could possibly happen through a series of accidents. How did those “accidents” get set into motion anyway? There have been atheist scientists who eventually came around to God because of science. Food for thought.
“How many creations can you point to without a creator?“
This one, no evidence of a creator whatsoever.
“You should look into the science on how all of that could possibly happen“
The science is in, evidence shows that the theory of evolution is the most reasonable explanation for the diversity of life on earth.
As to the origin of life, we don’t have enough information to say exactly how it first started. There are many theories, but the honest answer is we don’t know.
But evolution could be wrong and you’d still not be one step closer to proving your particular God’s existence.
@Miner49er
“There is no faith involved in atheism, atheism is merely the disbelieve in the god(s) claims.
Mostly due to a lack of evidence.”
“a·the·ism
[ˈāTHēˌizəm]
NOUN
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.”
belief and faith are two different things. The difference between faith and belief; faith is a trust in something or someone – belief is a mental state where trust is placed in something or a person.
Of course there is a faith involved in atheism, just not a belief in God or gods but there is a belief in their own self-generated mental state of their faith there is no God or gods. Atheist have faith their belief is real for the very reason of mostly due to a lack of ‘what atheism considers’ evidence.
At its basics religion is a fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a group of people. Atheism does not exist in a vacuum of one, there is a whole ‘group’ of people who practice atheism, you are but one atheist of those whose beliefs and practices are generally agreed upon by that group of atheism practicing people.
Atheism is a self-generated faith AND belief practiced with a religious context – atheism is a religion based dogma and religion for those who are atheist and they are full of faith and belief they are correct and its real to them.
This is the obvious conflict in atheism – to practice Atheism one must have the faith and belief there is no God or gods and in practicing that they are practicing a religion and religious dogma. This makes them hypocrites when they attack others for practicing their religion and having faith and belief. Its common for Atheist hypocrites to make the small changes in context and meaning to avoid exposing their hypocrisy, like you have done by saying “There is no faith involved in atheism” which is actually 100% false.
Yes there is faith involved in atheism, its full of faith, based on faith, and its a religion too.
So back to your original bit of nonsense…
“can promise you that no atheist ever told him that demons were real…”
Ignoring for a second that there is no way you can ever promise that ….
you must think they are real. no one who thinks something is not real spends so much time arguing it isn’t real and trying to sway every point into the religion aspect. So how long have you had these religious based delusions that others belief and faith in a religious based aspect is not as real to them as you think your atheism faith religion is real to you?
oh, and maybe not him specifically but atheist do tell people demons are real. atheist believe in evil, they just don’t believe in the Christian or other religious aspect of evil and their demons of evil are everyone else with christian or other religion based faith while oddly being accepting of a Satan devil worship based faith which many atheist practice.
how long have you been shielded from the real world and have you sought professional mental health help for your religion based delusions?
MINOR Miner49er. Oh My God! You look about you and think that “evolution” is the answer to the question? OK, from what did all of this “evolve” from?
Question: “How many creations can you point to without a creator?“
Miner’s answer: “This one, no evidence of a creator whatsoever.”
Now hang on just a second. I thought we were following the science. Did someone make that computer you’re typing on? Did someone make the house you’re living in? The clothes you’re wearing? How does something exist without being made to exist? If something is made to exist, then who made it? Which is more complex, a computer or a person? Do computers spontaneously appear due to an accidental explosion that happened because it accidentally happened? Why or why not? If computers are less complex than life and ecosystems, then wouldn’t that be easier, and therefore, more probable? You believe we’re all a big accident. Anyone can believe whatever they want, but it is a belief.
“The science is in, evidence shows that the theory of evolution is the most reasonable explanation for the diversity of life on earth.”
We do our best with the available evidence. Maybe that’s how life was created? Or maybe nothing existed here more than 150 years ago, and everything we find was planted for us to find? How would you ever know the difference? There isn’t a living witness to that time. How do you know history really happened? You said you only trust the possibility when there’s a living witness. Some things just come to be accepted, don’t they?
“As to the origin of life, we don’t have enough information to say exactly how it first started. There are many theories, but the honest answer is we don’t know.”
That sounds reasonable. I’m having a conversation with a normal person again.
“But evolution could be wrong and you’d still not be one step closer to proving your particular God’s existence.”
Like I said above, we do our best with the available evidence. What some professed atheists don’t realize is, people with different beliefs can also look at all of the available evidence and come to the conclusion that God is the explanation that makes sense.
“being accepting of a Satan devil worship based faith which many atheist practice“
Where do you get this stuff?
People can disbelieve what they want, but every atheist I’ve ever met is not convinced of the existence of any supernatural beings, God or Satan or Allah or Zeus or Shiva, et al.
Personally, I disbelieve in Zeus for the same reason I disbelieve in Jehovah for the same reason I disbelieve in Thor… No credible evidence to support the belief.
MINOR Miner49er. If you can’t see the evidence of God’s existence about you, you are blind.
“every atheist I’ve ever met”
I don’t think it’s close to the majority, but it’s very easy to see that satanic/demonic symbology is popular, and gaining in popularity, especially amongst a particular group of atheists.
@Miner49er
“There is no faith involved in atheism, atheism is merely the disbelieve in the god(s) claims.
Mostly due to a lack of evidence.”
“a·the·ism
[ˈāTHēˌizəm]
NOUN
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.”
belief and faith are two different things. The difference between faith and belief; faith is a trust in something or someone – belief is a mental state where trust is placed in something or a person.
Of course there is a faith involved in atheism, just not a belief in God or gods but there is a belief in their own self-generated mental state of their faith there is no God or gods. Atheist have faith their belief is real for the very reason of mostly due to a lack of ‘what atheism considers’ evidence.
At its basics religion is a fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a group of people. Atheism does not exist in a vacuum of one, there is a whole ‘group’ of people who practice atheism, you are but one atheist of those whose beliefs and practices are generally agreed upon by that group of atheism practicing people.
Atheism is a self-generated faith AND belief practiced with a religious context – atheism is a religion based dogma and religion for those who are atheist and they are full of faith and belief they are correct and its real to them.
This is the obvious conflict in atheism – to practice Atheism one must have the faith and belief there is no God or gods and in practicing that they are practicing a religion and religious dogma. This makes them hypocrites when they attack others for practicing their religion and having faith and belief. Its common for Atheist hypocrites to make the small changes in context and meaning to avoid exposing their hypocrisy, like you have done by saying “There is no faith involved in atheism” which is actually 100% false.
Yes there is faith involved in atheism, its full of faith, based on faith, and its a religion too.
So back to your original bit of nonsense…
“can promise you that no atheist ever told him that demons were real…”
Ignoring for a second that there is no way you can ever promise that ….
you must think they are real. no one who thinks something is not real spends so much time arguing it isn’t real and trying to sway every point into the religion aspect. So how long have you had these religious based delusions that others belief and faith in a religious based aspect is not as real to them as you think your atheism faith religion is real to you?
oh, and maybe not him specifically but atheist do tell people demons are real. atheist believe in evil, they just don’t believe in the Christian or other religious aspect of evil and their demons of evil are everyone else with christian or other religion based faith while oddly being accepting of a Satan devil worship based faith which many atheist practice.
how long have you been shielded from the real world and have you sought professional mental health help for your religion based delusions?
Atheist are accepting of a Satan devil worship based faith, which many atheist practice, because it feeds their anti-god anti-christian-religion fervor.
MINOR MIner49er. For your edification:
https://freebeacon.com/democrats/michigan-state-shooter-had-prior-felony-gun-charge-dismissed-by-progressive-prosecutor/?utm_source=actengage&utm_campaign=FreedomMail&utm_medium=email
If you don’t believe in God you are an atheist, if you DON’T don’t believe in God you are religious, if you don’t DON’T don’t believe in God ONLY because you’ve not seen adequate EVIDENCE of the existence of God you are afraid to take a position just in case you’re wrong… An agnostic actually does believe in God but does not participate in any formal religion…
Dude:
“I’m pretty sure the textbook definition is one who denies the existence of God”
And you would be wrong. You know, Merriam-Websters is available online:
“atheism
noun
athe·ism ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm
Synonyms of atheism
1
a
: a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods
b
: a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods”
As I said, I have not seen sufficient evidence of any particular deity to justify belief.
“it’s very easy to see that satanic/demonic symbology is popular, and gaining in popularity, especially amongst a particular group of atheists“
Oh please, would you be kind enough to provide an example?
I don’t know how you think the dictionary definition is different from the definition I gave. An atheist doesn’t believe in God. If you want to leave some room that maybe God exists, but you can’t say for sure because you can’t prove it, we have a word for that. That’s an agnostic. I’m not trying to nail you down to a label. Call yourself whatever you like, but words have meaning.
I can’t easily copy and paste an example or two for you now of the satanic interest. I’ll come back this afternoon. I’ll also respond to your other comments.
@Miner49er
“As I said, I have not seen sufficient evidence of any particular deity to justify belief.”
“sufficient evidence of any particular deity to justify belief.” – you mean evidence that you would consider ‘sufficient evidence’.
“a·the·ism
[ˈāTHēˌizəm]
NOUN
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.”
belief and faith are two different things. The difference between faith and belief; faith is a trust in something or someone – belief is a mental state where trust is placed in something or a person.
Of course there is a faith involved in atheism, just not a belief in God or gods but there is a belief in their own self-generated mental state of their faith there is no God or gods. Atheist have faith their belief is real for the very reason of mostly due to a lack of ‘what atheism considers’ evidence.
At its basics religion is a fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a group of people. Atheism does not exist in a vacuum of one, there is a whole ‘group’ of people who practice atheism, you are but one atheist of those whose beliefs and practices are generally agreed upon by that group of atheism practicing people.
Atheism is a self-generated faith AND belief practiced with a religious context – atheism is a religion based dogma and religion for those who are atheist and they are full of faith and belief they are correct and its real to them.
This is the obvious conflict in atheism – to practice Atheism one must have the faith and belief there is no God or gods and in practicing that they are practicing a religion and religious dogma. This makes them hypocrites when they attack others for practicing their religion and having faith and belief. Its common for Atheist hypocrites to make the small changes in context and meaning to avoid exposing their hypocrisy, like you have done by saying in your previous post with “There is no faith involved in atheism” which is actually 100% false.
And now you seek to change it again with “I have not seen sufficient evidence of any particular deity to justify belief.” while at the same time expressing and implied belief and faith there is not “sufficient evidence”.
Yes there is faith involved in atheism, its full of faith, based on faith, and its a religion too and one you are practicing.
Atheist are accepting of a Satan devil worship based faith, which many atheist practice, because it feeds their anti-god anti-christian-religion fervor.
when Dude wrote:
“it’s very easy to see that satanic/demonic symbology is popular, and gaining in popularity, especially amongst a particular group of atheists“
Occult practices involves expression or use of (what is traditionally considered) ‘satanic or demonic symbolism’ at some point. It may be slight or altered or ‘refined’ or ‘disguised in context or manifestation or meaning’. The atheists religion practice has evolved and formed close ties to that of satanism in the ‘no-god or anti-god aspect’ because the concept is represented by ‘Satan, which is also a demon in hell as well as opposed to an angel in heaven’ thus fits with the evolution of atheism today which is why atheist are accepting of a Satan devil worship based faith, which many atheist practice, because it feeds their anti-god anti-christian-religion fervor.
The journal article Atheism and the occult published in the Journal of Social Sciences indicated (translated to English from the original > https://www.bib.irb.hr/410284?rad=410284 > there is a similar U.S. study I can’t find right now but it came down to basically the same thing):
“Atheists with a sociopathic personality structure have a greater degree of predisposition to express different forms of occult practice. The results of canonical discriminant analysis have shown that occultist syndrome in atheists is a component of a kind of sociopathic aggression whose latent structure is defined by materialistic-hedonistic orientation, impulsive aggression and asocial aggression in the positive direction, and altruism in the negative direction. Atheists with a sociopathic personality structure have a greater degree of predisposition to express different forms of occult practice”
The symbolism and expression is all over the place, for example…
Satanic Idaho, a self-described atheist organization > https://dailycaller.com/2023/02/13/satanic-idaho-gender-affirming-ritual-state-capitol/
another example > The Washington Times said about the atheist mass shooter Connor Betts: “The Ohio gunman described himself on social media as a pro-Satan “leftist” who wanted Joe Biden’s generation to die off, hated President Trump and law enforcement, and hoped to vote for Sen. Elizabeth Warren for president.” > https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/4/connor-betts-ohio-gunman-was-elizabeth-warren-supp/
There are many atheist organizations/groups that embrace the occult and satanism. There are expressions of it all over the internet from various people who are atheists who practice satanism and the occult. It comes in different forms, for example, some atheist who do practice satanism call it “Atheistic Satanism”, but some with a self-conceived concept, for example > https://highlandpiper-sc.com/1623/opinion/atheistic-satanism-what-is-it-and-why-do-i-practice-it/
as a side note, since 1998 to date:
16% of mass shooters, which includes school shooters as school shootings are just mass shootings in a school – 6% of that 16% have been christian, a little over half of that 16% have been Muslim, and the rest of that 16% not Christian or Muslim were of some other recognized God believing religion. Of that 16% less then 3% were ‘conservative’ or ‘right’ or ‘far right’ politically and the rest of that 16% were either ‘middle’ or ‘left’ or ‘left leaning’ politically. Of all the mass shooters 1998 to present 86% have been ‘pro-left’ or ‘leftist leaning’ or “leftist” atheists and not ‘conservative’ or ‘right’ or ‘far right’ or ‘middle’, all of these dabbled in satanism or the occult or held such views.)
Slight change of plans with work. Now it will be this evening. I can think of a couple of good, recent examples. I’ll post them later and also address your other comments.
REALLY long day. dacian’s healthcare subsidies aren’t going to pay for themselves! I began noticing an increasing trend of people displaying satanic/demonic symbolism about 8 or so years ago. I wasn’t searching it out, and I haven’t since, yet I keep seeing it. I don’t know how you’ve missed it. It seems to be especially popular among the Progressive LGBT crowd. As promised, here are a couple of recent examples:
a review of Dr. Daskalakis’s social media presence reveals a penchant for pentagrams and other Satanic symbolism
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dr-devil-worshiper-vs-monkeypox/
CBS has deleted its Grammy Awards tweet proclaiming “we are ready to worship” pop star Sam Smith’s Satan-themed performance
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2023/02/07/cbs-quietly-deletes-grammy-tweet-saying-we-are-ready-to-worship-satanic-sam-smith-performance/
40oz, from your link:
“Satanic Idaho describes itself as an “independent atheistic and non-supernatural satanic community,”
Do you even understand what the term ‘non-supernatural’ means?
These people are just poking fun at your Bronze Age taboos.
I don’t have any faith or belief that any ‘God’ isn’t real, but I’ve seen no compelling evidence to support that belief.
And no one could prove ‘God doesn’t exist’ anymore they could prove that unicorns don’t exist, no way any person could know what the entire universe contains.
And yes, disbelief is the natural state of any intelligent mind, until sufficient facts are presented to warrant belief.
To have belief or faith in any deity, idea, etc. without evidence to support the claim, is irrational.
And the claim there’s a supreme deity who created the entire universe and is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent is an extraordinary claim that would require extraordinary evidence.
@Miner49er
” ‘Satanic Idaho describes itself as an “independent atheistic and non-supernatural satanic community,’
Do you even understand what the term ‘non-supernatural’ means?”
I never attributed any ‘supernatural’ thing for that. I just responded to your obviously false assertions and showed them to be false.
Thanks for proving, again, yet another part of my point about you.
Damn ultra maga Republican white supremacists. The biggest threat we face.
Violently mentally ill?!? Or just evil? I vote the dead perp is plain ole evil…
Much worse than that. Liar49er is insinuating that the shooter is a religious Christian.
“Liar49er is insinuating that the shooter is a religious Christian“
Are you suggesting it the multiple verses from the Holy Bible posted on the (alleged) perp’s Facebook page were actually disinformation posted by some nefarious third-party?
I certainly enjoy seeing your evidence.
Liar49er, I suggested no such thing, and you know that.
But you did insinuate that the shooter carried out his crimes because he was a religious Christian and, despite my asking you twice, you haven’t presented any evidence to support your insinuation.
“But you did insinuate that the shooter carried out his crimes because he was a religious Christian and, despite my asking you twice, you haven’t presented any evidence to support your insinuation“
Actually, I suggested that he was on a very dangerous drug, the drug of religious delusion as evidenced by his multiple postings of Bible verses on his social media.
And I will state it for the third or fourth time, I can guarantee that no atheist told him that demons were real and could attack and harm people.
I can guarantee you no atheist commanded him or suggested to him to kill demons.
But I can tell you that the Bible he was quoting has multiple stories about demons, and presents demons as actual beings that can harm humans.
So when the perpetrator went on his rampage and started killing ‘demons’, who put the idea in his head?
Liar49er
“So when the perpetrator went on his rampage and started killing ‘demons’, who put the idea in his head?”
Was that idea “in his head?” Did someone “put [it] there?”
You’re still presenting more assumptions without any evidence of such. It’s understandable why you have no credibility when you attempt your strawmen arguments, non sequiturs and goalpost-moving.
for someone who is atheist and abhors any faith, claiming its not real, Miner49 sure does spend a lot of time ranting obsessively about it. Sort of like he has sone sort of mental health issue that makes him obsessively afraid its real.
At least he did himself in.
Too bad it was a gun free zone.
Had there been a responsible CCW carrying citizen, could of stopped the killing and injuries.
A quote from one of the students:
“I thought I was going to die. We didn’t know where he went. Everyone was on the ground huddling, and I just looked at my classmates and told them it was going to be okay,” she said.
No sweetie, it’s not going to be “okay”. Huddling doesn’t stop bullets, it just makes a bigger target.
The silver lining inside the cloud:
The suicide shooter will be counted as a victim of “gun violence” by the control groups.
The Shooter had a previous conviction and was barred from owning weapons but in Capitalvania where life is considered cheap and expendable you can buy a second hand gun with no paperwork faster than you can buy a hamburger and fries. No other civilized nation on the planet permits such absolute madness and insanity. Until we get sane gun laws in Capitalvania mass murders like this will only continue to get worse and be an almost everyday occurrence.
Capitalvanias lack of social safety nets also contribute substantially to extreme violence because people in need cannot get the help they need. Mental health care is usually unaffordable and social programs that help people retrain for jobs or buy enough food or pay their rent so they do not end up living out on the street are not as adequate as civilized European countries who do provide such adequate services. Capitalvania has become the “hell hole” and to quote Herr Drumpf (The Donald) the “shit hole of the industrialzed world”. When you factor in the easy availability of unregistered or unvetted weapons you have a volcano ready to explode in your face at any moment and on every day of the week.
Presently Capitalvania has become the most dangerous and insane industrialized nation on the planet. It has become unsafe to travel to any place with large groups of people, even going to the grocery store is now a place where you may end up dead on the floor.
Yet the Far Right Fanatics scream “Losses can never be to high when it comes to sacrificing innocent people on the altar of no gun control”. The Far Right has no solutions except “let’s hope the problem just goes away and in the meantime everyone should go grocery shopping or go to school with an assault rifle in their hands. The Far Right actually think this is a sane approach to a deep seated and serious society problem that they refuse to admit even exists or needs fixing.
As President Clinton once said “For God’s sake stop the madness” and that was decades ago and it has not yet sunk into the Neanderthal craniums of the vicious and retarded far right.
Republican’s ( Prostitutes of the NRA) simply respond “Thoughts and prayers and I am glad it did not happen to my family so I personally do not give a fk because I continue to get plenty of NRA cash”.
A report last year from the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention showed that, of 22 “civilized?” European countries with comparable data, only Croatia had more gun deaths per capita over the last four years, a stark contrast to two decades ago when Sweden was toward the bottom. So far this year, 44 people have been shot dead in Sweden, almost all of them in connection with suspected gang crime, according to police. That compares to 46 for all of 2021. As the violence has spread, it has risen to the top of voter concerns for the first time since such polling began, with 41% saying crime was their biggest worry according to a report this year by Gothenburg University’s Society, Opinion and Media Institute. Gotta love those “civilized” countries”… Probably getting their guns from those surplus used guns in Indiana… Sweden has a population of 10.5 million or about 1/3 that of California…
Compare Sweden’s 44 deaths Mad Man to the average of 44,000 U.S. of Hey deaths every year. Your rebuttal was as pathetic as it was ignorant.
of Hey deaths
Fuks a “Hey death”… Considering that actual gun related deaths were 160 in a country of 10 million points out the falacy of all of YOUR claims using countries with populations smaller than most major cities in the US. Just pointing out that murder happens EVERYWHERE including “civilized” countries with “sensible” gun control… Facts hurt when you post the kind of bullshit rants you do on a nearly daily basis… Maybe some new material would help? Being called pathetic and ignorant by you is laughable since it’s obvious you do not know the meaning of those words based on your daily posts…
You know how to tell dacian is lying? He’s touching a key board.
You know how to tell dacian is lying
That’s okay it appears that the 4th Circuit federal court decided a North Carolina law forbidding candidates from lying was “unconstitutional.”… So, LYING is “protected” speech, rock on dacyboy and minerva… Apparently you CAN yell fire in a crowded theater, until someone gets injured/killed in the ensuing stampede…
Yep and now their using “WEAPONS” supplied to Ukraine by the West!!!
Yet I’m a betting that Dacian is all in giving “MILITARY” weapons to Ukraine!!!!
“The Shooter had a previous conviction and was barred from owning weapons …”
Citation? Don’t some former felons petition and recover their rights to own weapons once their sentences are served? Is “possession of a loaded weapon in a vehicle” a bar to owning a weapon in Michigan?
” … you can buy a second hand gun with no paperwork …”
Did this perp buy a second hand weapon? Was he legally prevented from doing so?
“Republican’s ( Prostitutes of the NRA) simply respond “Thoughts and prayers and I am glad it did not happen to my family so I personally do not give a fk because I continue to get plenty of NRA cash”.”
It’s better to respond as the Democrat Majority Whip of the Michigan House, “Fuck your thoughts and prayers.”
Besides, we know that the NRA doesn’t give any cash to candidates because they are spending all of their money on Wayne’s custom suits, private aircraft, girlfriend, and lawyer’s fees.
Dacian the only country I have ever been to that I would have had even a minute’s worth of trouble buying a gun was the British Virgin Islands and only because it was small enough that constant surveillance of tourists was generally possible. Now much like how this asshole came to be in possession of said firearm it would probably be illegal to do so but it is generally not hard in Europe, South/Central America and Western/Central Asia to get a gun if you have money. Can’t speak for east Asia or Africa though.
dacian, the DUNDERHEAD, So you admit that your “Universal Background checks” will not work?
The Shooter had a previous conviction and was barred from owning weapons but in Capitalvania where life is considered cheap and expendable you can buy a second hand gun with no paperwork faster than you can buy a hamburger and fries.
The reality is that the guy was “CHARGED” with a felony AND a misdemeanor that would have put him in jail for five years where he would have been to date, the “WOKE” prosecutor dropped the felony and the guy did a couple months of probation, he was NOT a prohibited person…
Well, look at the bright side: at least Michigan’s law, which criminalizes carrying firearms in university dormitories and classrooms, prevented this violent attacker from carrying a firearm into a university classroom to murder three and seriously injure five victims.
Oh wait, that failed. What is the point of that law?
Control and compliance same as anything commies ever want.
Many of the students from last years Oxford, Michigan school shooting attend MSU now and are speaking out on the local news about living through a second mass shooting.
Just imagine if only one CCW holder was present at either event.
Nah, a “good guy with a gun” doesn’t exist and never stops a shooting anyway.
yet another, BLM reparations mass murder.
not even TTAG will call a spade a spade.
meanwhile, the Superbowl features “Lift Every Voice” as equal to the National Anthem and a group named “Lift Every Voice” campaigns for gun prohibition in Oregon.
“meanwhile, the Superbowl features “Lift Every Voice” as equal to the National Anthem“
You know, I’ve searched the constitution and I find no mention whatsoever of a ‘national anthem’ or ‘national flag’.
I did see something about ‘freedom of speech’…
Want to make sure we have a divided country? Tell black Americans they need their own nation anthem, like they aren’t the same kind of citizen every other race is. Of course division is the goal. That’s why we began hearing the constant drumbeat of racism circa Obama’s second term. There’s easy power to be had by using it.
“Tell black Americans they need their own nation anthem, like they aren’t the same kind of citizen every other race is“
What really divides those folks is the fact that the ‘national anthem’ was written by a racist slave owner and the verses of the song encourage the killing of runaway slaves seeking their freedom.
I have but one message for the enslaved, “seek your freedom by any means necessary and I will give you what assistance I can”
“like they aren’t the same kind of citizen every other race is“
Interesting, so please tell me what other race in America spent their first 250 years in this country as slaves at the point of a gun, having their children stolen and sold down river and being killed on a whim by their masters.
Were there other races whose status in the United States Constitution was enshrined as 3/5 of an actual person?
I guess somehow I missed that part…
I guess somehow I missed that part… Guess you did…
White slavery pre-dates black slavery in America. This fact has been verified by forensic evidence from archaeological digs and historical documents uncovered by contemporary scholars, including Don Jordan and Michael Walsh in White Cargo (New York University Press: 2009).
The white slaves not indentured, who began to arrive here in 1618, included hundreds of children, waifs and strays, who had been rounded up from the streets of London to serve wealthy farmers in Virginia.
Other slaves came from the ranks of the homeless and the poor, whom King James I held responsible for spreading the plague, and from England’s swelling prison population., the scheme was supported by James I, who believed the homeless and itinerant of London were spreading the plague.
Of the first 300 white slaves to land in Virginia, only 12 managed to survive four years. The others died of ill treatment, disease, attack by native Americans or overwork.
Contemporary records show that one child victim, Elizabeth Abbott, was beaten to death when her master ordered her to be given 500 lashes for running away.
At least 70,000 white men, women, and children from England and Ireland were shipped to the colonies to be sold as slaves on the auction block during the 170 years of British rule.
“What really divides those folks is the fact that the ‘national anthem’ was written by a racist slave owner…”
100% false. No one under the age of 100 has likely heard anything other than the modern rendition which only sings the first verse. Even after accounting for the context of being written about the War of 1812, it’s highly debatable if the lyrics were intended, in any way, to support or promote racism.
You’re just parroting the poison that originated from our ivy league schools due to communist infiltration. It became easier for them to spread their infection with the help of cable TV propaganda networks and the internet.
There is absolutely no reason why black people can’t enjoy our national anthem, just like any other race. It’s really sad that brainwashed liberals promote this nonsense with the idea that they’re helping black people. It’s the exact same with 99% of everything they do. Causing harm is carried out under the guise of saving people.
“Interesting, so please tell me what other race in America…”
When did slavery end? No one alive today was a slave. Black people willingly immigrated to this country post slavery. Their ancestors weren’t slaves here. Why isn’t that ever discussed? Why isn’t it ever mentioned that some people had slaves because they could. The first officially recognized slave owner in America was a black man. After slavery officially ended, corporations essentially enslaved people to work for them, including children (because they could). There’s never any nuance with you people because the truth is inconvenient. Unfortunately, there’s way too many black people in America that are still enslaved in their mind. They think they’re oppressed because do-gooder liberals tell them that every day. They’ll NEVER be free until they’re treated like everyone else. That’s called equal treatment, not equity. Why is that so difficult? Answer: Power.
Let’s not mention the Arab slave trade as it would cause Liar49er’s head to explode. This was still happening within living memory and seems to reappear whenever a new caliphate emerged.
“100% false. No one under the age of 100 has likely heard anything other than the modern rendition which only sings the first verse“
Just because so-called patriots only sing the first stanza does not mean the entire song is not the official National Anthem of the United States as mandated by the United States Congress:
“The House of Representatives passed the bill later that year.[35] The Senate passed the bill on March 3, 1931.[35] President Herbert Hoover signed the bill on March 4, 1931, officially adopting “The Star-Spangled Banner” as the national anthem of the United States of America.[1] As currently codified, the United States Code states that “[t]he composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.”[36] Although all four stanzas of the poem officially compose the National Anthem, only the first stanza is generally sung, the other three being much lesser known“
“Let’s not mention the Arab slave trade as it would cause Liar49er’s head to explode“
An abomination as well, and I’m sure they used their religion to justify their crimes.
But that wasn’t my country and I don’t feel any responsibility for their crimes against humanity.
“The House of Representatives passed the bill later that year.[
Do you honestly believe that ANY of those fukwits took the time to read the words right up to AND including Hoover… THAT would be a first…
“only the first stanza is generally sung, the other three being much lesser known”
Thank you Miner for backing me up on that. No one would think about the anthem being racist if it wasn’t for certain people out there reopening the wound as soon as it begins to heal. (Everything is racist!) The Left has a vested interest in keeping the wound open. There’s too much power at stake. “Divided we fall” is much more than just an old saying.
“The first officially recognized slave owner in America was a black man“
You’ve got to open your mind to something besides the right wing media conglomerates like Glenn Beck.
Your statement is factually wrong, and the situation is infinitely more complex than the simplistic view offered by the conservatives.
“The existing scholarship indicates that John Punch was the first man known to be perpetually enslaved on July 9, 1640, a punishment he received for attempting to flee his indenture. He absconded alongside two fellow servants, a “dutchman” named Victor and a “Scotchman called James Gregory.” Following their apprehension, his counterparts each received only one additional year upon their indenture, while Punch, listed as a “negro,” was enslaved “for the time of his natural Life.” Punch’s sentence documents an early framework for the growing attachment between Blackness and enslavement in North America, as the indentured white men did not receive similar punishment. Thus, Hugh Gwyn, the man who owned John Punch, would be the first recognized slaveholder, eliminating the spurious claim that a Black man innovated the North American system.“
https://www.aaihs.org/the-curious-history-of-anthony-johnson-from-captive-african-to-right-wing-talking-point/
“No one would think about the anthem being racist if it wasn’t for certain people out there reopening the wound“
Now that right there is some racist bullshit.
The wound can’t heal until it’s brought into the daylight and rectified, not hidden in darkness to fester.
Bet you’d love to cover up to the thousands of broad daylight public lynchings of innocent Black people as well, “it just makes them folks unruly, better keep it hidden”
I’m amazed that you would be so blatant in your attempts to rewrite history, do you work for Ron DeSantis?
“Now that right there is some racist bullshit.”
Of course you have to fall back on the old standby racism charge. That’s when we know we’ve won the argument and you have nothing but name calling to cling to.
Wow Miner. I almost thought I was having conversations with a serious person for a second there.
I’m not trying to hide anything. I’m not trying to pretend anything. It was my stated position above that the anthem isn’t promoting racism. No one else thought it was either. When did you become so enlightened? Do you remember listening to the anthem playing as a child and think to yourself, “that’s some racist bullshit.” No. You were told that. You were told to be outraged. And now you’re the one going around telling people they have to be outraged.
“I’m amazed that you would be so blatant in your attempts to rewrite history”
Oh please, you don’t really believe that. If you do, you’re not nearly as smart as I give you credit for. Let me ask one more time. How long ago did we have slavery in this country? Jim Crow was over before I was even born. We’ve had these discussions before as well. We talked about our childhood. You either have a terrible memory or you’re a nasty liar. Black and white got along fine at my schools growing up. The country was doing pretty decent until the constant push to perceive racism in everything because there was slavery here well over a century ago.
When does the country get to heal and unite Miner? The answer of course is never. We can never do enough because our dear leaders are ambitious. This benefits them. There’s too much power at stake. It doesn’t matter that there aren’t any slaves or slaveholders here anymore. It doesn’t matter that all black people here didn’t descend from slaves. It doesn’t even matter that very few white people here descended from slave owners.
MINOR Miner49er. Wow! You are equating indentured servitude with the slavery of Black people. Nice TRY! You see there is a difference. Indentured servitude was used to pay off a debt and was for a limited period of time usually a debt owed by the “slave”. The slavery of Black people was initiated by taking Black people from Africa (often sold by the tribal chieftain to the slaver traders). As usual you are full of it.
MINOR Miner49er.
Oh, PULLEEAASSEE! NIce try. I see you are back to the old Leftist standby. When in doubt call your opponent a “racist”. The man point out FACTS and you just don’t like the facts. The wound is reopened by this so called “Black National Anthem”. It is like rubbing salt in a “wound”.
Speaking of rewriting history, you Lefties are trying to do that with CRT.
Do yourself a favor. Shut up while you are behind.
“yet another, BLM reparations mass murder”
There’s no mention of the BLM or reparations on his web pages that have been posted publicly.
There do seem to be dozens of Bible verses posted on his Facebook pages, is that what you’re talking about?
“There’s no mention of the BLM or reparations on his web pages that have been posted publicly.
There do seem to be dozens of Bible verses posted on his Facebook pages, is that what you’re talking about?”
clearly he was talking about “yet another, BLM reparations mass murder”, he even wrote it down for ya. Its right there in print, all ya need to do is know how to read.
yet here you are trying to take it on another of your trolling moving goal post grand tours of out of context stupid.
McRae had a previous conviction from an incident on June 7, 2019, when he was busted with a loaded weapon near an abandoned building. He was charged with possession of a loaded firearm after he was found to be carrying the gun without a concealed weapons permit.
McRae had four counts of driving with a suspended license from 2006 to 2008.
‘permits’ didn’t seem to mean anything to McRae like, hmmm… lets see who else, oh yeah, criminals that would not be affected by any permit requirement.
Not only did the police fail to stop McRae’s in-progress crime while they were at the campus but additional victims were shot by McRae while the police were at the campus, AND McRae got away from the campus – police they didn’t actually find McRae their selves but rather relied on the report of a person who called in and told them where he was and that was miles from the campus.
The police haven’t said yet what the fire was, only that they recovered a firearm.
Maybe its one of those “high capacity” six shot ‘assault revolvers’. (in case no one got it, I was being sarcastic with that. Because no matter if it is just a regular common six shot revolver by the time anti-gun gets done hyping it will be a “fully automatic high capacity clip fed assault weapon from which a single bullet can instantly vaporize a person so completely their birth certificate ceases to exist’ – heck, if it was an old fashion Wham-o slingshot by the time anti-gun got done hyping it would be a ‘”fully automatic high capacity clip fed assault weapon’
“He was charged with possession of a loaded firearm after he was found to be carrying the gun without a concealed weapons permit“
Now the POTG have another hero, this poor citizen was prosecuted and incarcerated because he did not have a ‘Mother may I” card.
Perhaps he was carrying out the instructions of many on this forum, who speak daily of “refreshing the tree of liberty with a blood of tyrants”
Do not have a problem with his carrying without a permit.
Liar49er, one of the Michigan statutes concerning handgun regulations:
You may transport your registered handguns while en route to and from your hunting or target shooting area; however, handguns, including BB guns larger than .177 caliber and all pellet guns, must be unloaded and in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms and cannot be readily accessible to any occupant of the vehicle.
(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(uaweed03x2swhumxcw34ltta))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-227d
“must be unloaded“
I’m having trouble understanding your point, so you think that the second amendment only grants you the right to carry an unloaded gun?
And is it clear that this is the statute he was charged under?
“I’m having trouble understanding your point, so you think that the second amendment only grants you the right to carry an unloaded gun?”
His point was what he wrote.
yet here you are trying to drag it into another of your trolling moving goal post grand tours of out of context stupid.
He was arrested in 2019 for possessing guns without a concealed carry permit, Michigan Department of Corrections spokesperson Chris Gautz told Bridge Michigan on Tuesday. And a Lansing neighbor told Bridge Michigan Tuesday that police were called to McRae’s house about a year ago following complaints that that he was shooting a weapon out of the door of his house.
“He was arrested in 2019 for possessing guns without a concealed carry permit“
Most of the folks on this forum believe it is lawful to possess a gun without a permit under the United States Constitution.
“complaints that that he was shooting a weapon out of the door of his house“
Wasn’t it Jefferson who wrote in the draft of the Virginia constitution “No Freeman shall be disbarred the use of arms on his own property”?
So there you are, a constitution-loving American citizen, unjustly persecuted by his government trying to steal his second amendment rights. So he acted against the tyranny.
Wow, it seems this individual has a lot in common with most of the folks on this list, how fascinating.
Wow, it seems this individual has a lot in common with most of the folks on this list,
Except MOST of the “folks on this list” do not consider a bunch of college students, a classroom full of children or a gathering at a church/synagogue/mosque service as a threat to our 2nd amendment rights or see a bunch of Walmart shoppers and think damn I gotta kill a bunch of them before they dump all over my rights… It is possible to believe in your Constitutional rights and that ALL Americans enjoy those rights without turning into a mass murderer… YOU, I’m not so sure about…
>“murder is sinful and against the laws of Man and Nature“
“Interesting, man and nature but not God?”
One need not be a Christian to acknowledge that a higher power must exist.
Why do you think (rhetorical question) that I capitalized Man and Nature?
The One created both, separately and together — whatever you choose to call Him.
The proof of a higher power is all around us. In fact, it is us. All that one needs to do is open one’s eyes, and open one’s mind.
(This is not an invitation to further discussion of my theology, Liar49er. It would be pointless and I do not feel that my time would be well spent in doing so.)
” CRAZY ” MCRAE
RUINS IT ALL FOR LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNERS
SURE WISH PEOPLE LIKE THAT WOULD DO THEMSELVES IN FIRST …
Miner49er February 14, 2023 At 11:37
“He was a convicted felon who should have been in prison“
But if his felony was just being charged with having a fireman in his car, according…Blah, blah, blah, blah…Those DAMN FIREMAN again ! Violent basterds! felonious Fireman!
Wasn’t he the enemy of Tennessee tuxedo? or was dat Boris Minorinoff? I forget.
Check Please!
Minor69errrrrrrrrr, you’re a dik.
As for the trukassinator in NYC, I thought Bay Ridge and Sunset Pk were TRUK free zoneeeez, or was that Calzones? or Carl free zonez, oh nevamind
You complain that my phone used fireman instead of firearm, and then you typed ‘dik’, ‘zoneeeez’ and ‘truk’?
We expect the quality of bait posting you have provided for years but it appears to be slipping in both content and quality. As if a less qualified replacement or age/drug/other degeneration is involved.
Another mass shooting at a college where guns are not allowed by the useless and notably corrupted blue state govt. and useless socialist governor. Yet they blame the gun and the gun free zone mandates to save her useless face and job.
Black man with a handgun “nothing to see here”… Now for the REAL news, beat up on the incompetent gay guy who is supposed to be Transportation Secretary but totally ignores rail crash and toxic chemical spill and instead confronts the pressing issue of not enough POC working on construction jobs…
Michigan State shooter Anthony McRae’s brother said he changed after mom died: ‘He became bitter and angry’ > https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-state-shooter-anthony-mcrae-brother-said-he-changed-mom-died-he-became-bitter-angry
“investigators indicated Anthony McRae had a history of mental illness”
MSU shooter Anthony McRae found with note detailing threats to other schools > https://news.yahoo.com/msu-shooter-anthony-mcrae-found-092925214.html
“The 43-year-old man accused of killing three and wounding five in a shooting at Michigan State University before turning the gun on himself was found with a note detailing threats to two other schools, authorities say.”
McRae was convicted of gun charges; In 2019 with carrying a concealed pistol without a permit, a felony, and possession of a loaded firearm in a vehicle, a misdemeanor. state-level misdemeanors that carry penalties of two years or less are exempted under federal law so that misdemeanor didn’t make him a prohibited person. The felony was dismissed and he was sentenced to probation, which ended in May 2021. So he was not a prohibited person federally on that felony charge either because it was dismissed, but state law made him a prohibited person until his probation ended. McRae was able to legally purchase, possess and own a firearm after he was discharged from probation.
Police found what they indicated was a (firearms) ‘magazine’ in his pocket, maybe indicating the gun he used may not have been a revolver or maybe he had a second gun. Neighbors have described him firing shots out of his back door ‘target practicing’ and said they believed the firearm used for that was a ‘semi-automatic pistol’.
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