Man Who Shot Arvada, CO Cop Killer Was Shot and Killed by a Responding Officer

1. Thus the question: do you intervene, or not? It’s been brought up in absolutely every concealed carry class I’ve taken, and most other classes as well.

   One lesson from this would be, simply, think about this beforehand. Another might be, if you’re intervening, call 911 as soon as possible to let them know what happened and what you (a good guy) looks like. I’m certain there are others, and this is an incident I would like to understand broken down better; to fail to learn from it would just increase the tragic nature of the whole thing.

   Sympathies to Johnny Hurley’s family.

   • I would say don’t be holding a weapon when cops get there. Neutralize the threat, holster your own weapon, and keep your hands visible and empty.

     • And if they come up silently, perhaps from behind? Or simply where YOU aren’t LOOKING? Because you’re focused on the ACTUAL threat?

       • A picture paints a thousand words. Don’t let it paint you as the bad guy. I know the tendency is to pick up an AR because the perp doesn’t need it anymore and vision adding it to your collection however if there are no more bad guys around there are guaranteed cops coming and you better look like Mary Poppins to them.

         Nonetheless he is still a hero, still a good guy with a gun who took care of business.

       • This

         Too many variables can cost you your life. Just stay the fuck out of it.

       • Good scenario for shoot the mofo, reholster and walk away, if there are more bad guys let somebody else handle it. Also let someone else play the hero. Look up a nearby gun show and trade your piece for a different caliber. Remain steadfastly ignorant and pretty stupid.

       • A careful reading of the post would show that the threat had been eliminated by 5 or six shots from Hurley’s handgun, The fact that he was holding the bad guy’s AR-15 being further proof.

         The thing he got VERY wrong was picking up that AR and standing here waiting for police to arrive. “Man with a gun, shots fired” is what they were responding to. Not a good idea to be the only man with a gun when they arrive.

         Every CCW class and tactical pistol class I have attended EMPHASIZED that should you be involved in a shooting you should never have your weapon exposed in your hand when police arrive on scene. If you MUST hold a suspect at gunpoint lock the slide back with the chamber empty. A simple flick of your thumb brings the weapon to battery and loaded, or drops the mag to the ground so you can set aside an unloaded weapon before someone decides you need to be shot.

         Kudos for being a good citizen willing to look out for his neighbors. Not so much for the mistake that got him shot unnecessarily.

       • “If you MUST hold a suspect at gunpoint lock the slide back with the chamber empty”

         That’s absolutely terrible advice, honestly some of the worst I’ve heard. I hope you didn’t get it from an actual instructor.

     • CP, if you can manage that I’d agree. But if police respond while there is still a bad guy in play, your gun is likely to be unholstered. And as PP notes, probably focused on the bad guy.

       I wish I had a good answer. I don’t.

     • Here’s a recommendation from a former SEAL and GRS instructor who trains active shooter response.
       https://kdvr.com/news/local/what-should-concealed-carry-owners-do-in-active-shooter-situations/
       I’m reserving judgment until I see the body cam. Did the responding officer go in guns blazing? Was Hurley surprised and pointed a gun at the officer or someone else? Did the officer give Hurley commands that he didn’t hear or respond to? Did the officer tell to drop the gun and fire before Hurley could even respond?

   • Yes, it’s discussed in my CCW classes as well, and for good reason. Aside from the potential civil lawsuits against you from the deceased attacker’s family, responding LE might not adequately access the scene as they arrive.

     An another note, it looks like Dan has chosen to change the TTAG splash page again. Not a fan. Just when I’m starting to get accustomed to it on a PC, it’s changed to an inferior top-of-page format…again. And no matter what, it’s impossible to follow comments on your phone.

     • Please consider calling eNd Of WaTcH like the last time there was a change to this site and then be gone, coward.

       • Says the coward that has no answer to give about what he has done for liberty.

         Just another bought and paid for liberal troll.

       • You’re such a flirt.

       • Wow, the coward that doesn’t identify itself has the audacity to accuse someone else of being a coward?

         What a joke you are! 😉 😉 😉

         BTW, just where have you been for the past few days?

         Since you (incompetently, as usual) declared yourself as the one to ‘keep me in check’, this slacking off will no longer be tolerated… 🙂

       • Having never had one, I don’t know what it’s like to have an InterWebs groupie, but I suspect that it’s a lot like having a regular groupie but with an STD, just without the antibiotics. In your case, Geoff, it must be even more gratifying to have MULTIPLE groupies with varying levels of InterWebs infection–or are they all the same degenerate twits with differing screen names? Like, “Minor69er” during the day, and “A True Patriotenuf” by night?

   • The answer is no. Because these idiot tyrants don’t know the difference between holding a weapon and aiming one.

     Also, your judgment is questionable in a court of law. As is your assessment and training. Technically, you could have all the training in the world, unless you’re certified instructor or some special shit, it’ll be held against you. Stay the fuck out of it. The law and tyrants exist to punish us, not help us. When your life is in danger, defend yourself. But it’s clear that these poorly trained government tools are useless idiots.

     • Agreed! Not to mention given the fact that the real hero of this story wasn’t aiming the firearm at anyone, the unnamed officer should have issued a verbal command to drop the weapon BEFORE firing specifically to avoid this kind of outcome.

       This was clearly a bad shoot, and while I normally support the police when they make split second decisions, the unnamed officer has no business in law enforcement besides polishing a chair with his ass.

       • If it was a 10-999 call and they saw anyone with a gun 95% of LEOs are going to shoot first and deal with their actions later.
         The LEO will sit for a few months and then be back on the street.
         Cold hard facts.

2. This is why you never draw your weapon unless your (or loved ones) lives are in immediate danger. Cops are gonna come in guns blazing and when they see your firearm you are done.

   • So, if it’s a stranger, just let them die.

     Got it.

     No, fornicate that noise…..

     • Pave Pusher, you have no right to make that choice for anyone else, and nobody has an obligation to do what you’d choose for them to do.

     • 1000 upvotes pave pushed

       Some of us cant sit back and watch.

       It’s not how we’re wired.

       When shtf I sincerely hope to have someone like you watching my back.

     • “So, if it’s a stranger, just let them die.”

       Yes, you are not responsible for stranger’s safety. That is their responsibility. You want to be a hero go ahead, you’ll most likely end up like this guy or you will be bogged down with 10s of thousands in legal fees and months/years of stress even if you are eventually cleared.

       No thanks.

   • What does it take for evil to prevail again? Some sort of inaction by good people I believe? Ah, probably doesn’t apply here cause ACAB and “I got mine” or some such bullshit.

3. This happens a lot more than people think.

   In my opinion, it’s a personal choice in whether (or not) to become involved in hunting an active shooter. I’ve read more than one comment on forums and social media sites where posters think that people that carry have an obligation to intervene and stop an active shooter. That is NOT the case.

   Many folks carry to protect themselves and loved ones. I’m one of those folks, so I have it in my mind that if I’m shopping at the local mall and an active shooter situation occurs, I’m going to focus on defending myself and removing myself (and any loved ones that may be with me) from the situation. That’s the plan, anyways. If I can help folks while I’m on my way out, I’ll do that, but I won’t be chasing/hunting/tracking any bad guys. The goal is to find a path of least resistance when trying to get to safety, not to go toward more resistance.

   That’s me. The above might not work for you, but that’s OK, as I’m focusing on myself and family. If everyone carried, there’d probably be less active shooting situations.

   • I think we’re in a period of rapid social change where our norms are undergoing corresponding changes. The exponentially expanding number of gun-owners is pretty significant, as is the growing number of states (Texas most recently) adopting constitutional carry laws.

     America is now seen as a much more dangerous place and so people and governments are responding accordingly. I predict we’re going to see more private citizens defending both themselves and others simply because the threats are there and the police usually aren’t.

     This new armed prevalence is going that mean that we all—citizens, cops, governments, society in general—are going to have to come up with new understandings about just what armed defense actually means. As things now stand when the cops arrive and define you as “armed and dangerous” you’re quite likely to get shot. Johnny Hurley was a hero, the “good guy with a gun” who could very well have saved the lives of others. He paid a high price for his efforts but that takes nothing away from his decision to act.

     • The valkyries surely flew him to Valhalla…

       He was a true warrior.

   • I think the same way and try to train myself mentally to get me and mine out of any dangerous situation quickly. Always looking for an escape exit route wherever I am. Ill try to do what I can to help given your mall scenario, maybe people will follow me and mine. If bad guy/girl is in my way of leaving, he/she is going to have a very terrible day. Just because I carry a firearm does not make me a cop and I am not responsible for anyone’s safety. You won’t see me checking to see if someone is wearing a seatbelt either.

   • Say you are a crack shot and have the mentality that you will be able to save a bunch of innocent lives, that’s fine with me but be ready for severe consequences.

     A good gun self defense class or even carry insurance will teach you Run, Hide, Fight.
     You are NOT the police.

     If you have carry insurance and you are not defending yourself or family, they have an out clause. You will not have attorneys to represent you, in some states you can be sued for everything you own.
     That is the cold harsh reality of situations like this.

     The Good Samaritan is a great mindset. The problem is that things like this happen all the time. Maybe you aren’t as good as you thought, your gun jams defending strangers, you have never been a firefight or you don’t have the proper training. The PD shows up and shoots you dead because you are the guy with a gun in a 10-999 call. In those scenarios another insurance kicks in, your life insurance.

     Was John Hurley a hero? IMO yes but one that had tunnel vision and forgot any training he made have had. Will his family sue the Arvada Police Department? Yes they will and the hero narrative will go right out the window in court. I doubt that the family will settle for what the APD will offer. I doubt the LEO that shot him will be terminated.

     In the it’s a very tragic story but regardless of your feelings on this John Hurley was caught in tunnel vision and a adrenaline dump. That got him killed. If you want to engage someone who isn’t threatening you or your family then think about the possible outcomes.
     You can lose your life and leave your family w/o a father/husband.

     If you want to be a Good Samaritan then be prepared at the very least to lose everything you have and will earn in the future and worst case scenario be prepared to lose your life.
     At the end of the day John Hurley is a hero but he is dead.

     I am going to post the same video I posted last time, when being the good guy with a gun goes bad.
     At the end of the day Joseph Wilcox is a hero but he is dead.
     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQOHBSuY7TM

     • I love John Corriera and the Active Self Protection YouTube channel.
       Everyone here on TTAG should go watch some of his videos.
       His analysis of self defense videos is fascinating

       It is of interest to note that there is never a reload in self defense shootings. What you have in the gun is what you will use.

       Also,there is a running joke there about Brazil. From video evidence it’s seems that everyone there is either a robber or an off duty police officer.

4. God bless him and help the family, but lesson here is when LEO’S are imminent DO NOT have weapon in your hands!

   • With a very important caveat: if you know cops are inbound and will be there momentarily.

     But, just how do you know that?

     • Sirens?

       • Not always sirens, sometimes they try to approach quietly…

5. This is a sad situation, and one reason why we need training for those who are carrying weapons in public spaces.

   The hero made the mistake of picking up the shooters AR 15 and having it in his hands when the responding police officers arrived.

   Yes, he should’ve kicked it away from the shooter who he had successfully stopped, and he should’ve waited for the police with his empty hands in plain sight.

   CNN is covering the story on their web front page calling the armed citizen a “Good Samaritan” in the headline and quoting the police saying that this gentleman was a hero, positive coverage of a defensive gun used by an armed citizen.

   https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/26/us/arvada-colorado-police-shot-good-samaritan/index.html

   • He was a good Samaritan only because he’s dead. Had he lived they would be painting him as a racist, white supremacist, gun crazed, cop wannabe, right wing extremist, Trump supporter.

     • OMG, say it ain’t so! A TRUMP supporter?

   • This usually is talked about in those classes but those classes are not training. People that carry need training. They also need to think about this stuff before hand.

     • “People that carry need training.“

       Correct. That is the very meaning of “well regulated”, Congress “prescribes the discipline for the militia” under the constitution.

       Mandatory classroom time on the rights and obligations of carrying a lethal weapon, as well as proficiency testing on a live fire range.

     • When does it end?

       “People who attend school need to be taught (insert literally anything here)”

       Can be just as deadly. We are either free, or not.

6. Or maybe not pick up the rifle of the shooter as you stand over him? Easy for me to armchair it now but that move is confusing to me. No winners in this case…

   • This struck me as odd as well. The report doesn’t say what he was doing with it, just that he was holding it. Just on a guess, perhaps he was trying to safe the weapon?

     • If you’re unsure the weapon is safe, give the shooter one more at close range. Now it should be safe. But don’t touch it. If nothing else, you will leave fingerprints, think about it.

       • That will get you a murder charge.
         Every state requires you to stop shooting when the threat is over.
         The proper procedures is to move the criminals’ weapon out of his reach.
         Not to pick it up and handle it

7. Hurley’s unfortunate lapse in judgement was picking up the perp’s weapon. Needed to just kick it out of reach and then move away and disengage. Announce himself with empty hands when more police arrive. Let them secure his weapon (it’ll be wanted for evidence anyway) and take his statement.

   • The only lapse in judgement was by the gutless coward cops who shot an innocent man.

     • Correct. Unless Hurley pointed the rifle at the officer, the officer did not follow the use of force. What threat did he pose? The responding officer HAS to identify the threats, use proper TTP, including the use of cover. Hopefully there is more to this story than was told.

   • +1

     Stop the threat, secure the area, wait for LE to arrive to take over the scene. No need to touch the dead killer’s weapon. Just make certain nobody else touches it.

   • It’s tough to kick away a slung weapon. You’re going to have to get in there and use your hands to get it away from a perp.

8. And yet…I can’t help but hear the echoes of the sighs of relief by the Demanding/ Everytown/ Brady combine that this incredibly brave and successful intervention ended with the Good Samaritan dead, even – perhaps especially – at the hands of the police. Their talking points practically write themselves. There are so many valuable lessons that COULD come from this but they will be drowned out by the narrative of “see what happens” when a Good Guy with a Gun gets involved.

9. Since I’m an old curmudgeon who is offended by modern WOKE “culture”, I’m in the habit of watching old mystery shows. It amazes me how many defendants in these shows who find the body will immediately pick up the weapon and thus incriminate themselves. It seems that truth is stranger than fiction.

   How much you bet that the perpetrator still had ammo in his magazine and a round in the chamber when the good samaritan shot him?

10. Serious question: Should we consider disarming the police entirely?

    Maybe that way, they’d learn to find out what’s going on before just shooting.

    If they can’t understand that CITIZENS are also armed and are often the FIRST responders, maybe they need to find other work.

    • And yet they continue to say there’s no such thing as a stupid question!

    • Yes, the average cop should be disarmed and should have to call SWAT or someone else to show up with a gun if it’s actually needed.

      • Call an armed citizen.

      • sounds like the UK is your speed my guy. They got disarmed neutered police in spades.

        • Yeah, it’s one of the few things the UK gets right, unarmed police.

11. “Police Chief Link Strate described Hurley as a hero whose actions likely saved lives. He didn’t offer an apology but called Hurley’s death by a responding officer “equally tragic” to Beesley’s killing.”

    Sadly, not apologizing was deliberate, he most likely told not to.

    Apologizing could be seen as an admission of guilt, and exploited by the family…

    • Nothing will happen to the cop who shot him, it will be written off as a “mistake” but if a citizen shoots the wrong guy, well hope you like prison.

      • This is a very true statement.
        What Police Chief Link Strate said was carefully scripted.
        He called John Hurley a “hero”.
        That will change quickly when the family wants 20 million dollars.
        A new narrative will happen:
        “Johnny Hurley was reckless and wasn’t thinking straight”.
        The LEO that shot him will ride a desk for a while with pay.
        He will be back on the street in a few months.

12. I have read similar stories in the past about cops shooting the wrong people.

    • What a shame a Marxist scum like you couldn’t have been the one… 😉

      • How very Christian of you, Geoff. Lol on the real though you’re a 🤡!

      • “I’m just a gigalo, and everwhere I go…”

        Love it !!

        Louis Prima; the best.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkrb4h4weW4

        • Samuel, that was told to me the other day by a new friend.

          I thanked her for the compliment, but said no way in hell could I touch a woman that repulsed me, unless it paid stupid sums of money. She giggled, and said she understood.

          (A note to my troll – That was the kind of friend you’ve never had the pleasure of meeting, sad to say… 😉 )

          EDIT – Samuel, I was actually referencing the newer David Lee Roth version, but yours is much classier… 😉

13. Bad deal. Only thing we can do is learn from it

14. A tragedy with a clear lesson. Do not be holding any weapon when the cops show up and for fuck’s sake do not be holding the bad guy’s rifle!

15. Unfortunately quite a few police shoot first and ask questions latter.

16. In high adrenaline situations, “tunnel vision” is a thing.

17. Goddamn.

    Cops are so bloodthirsty, they’ll murder people that they admit are heroes that save them.

    We really need to disarm police.

    • No, I don’t believe that disarming or defunding police is the answer. Instead, we need to recruit and hire better people and then train them as if our lives depend on it. That’s going to cost more money, but the societal cost of maintaining the status quo is killing people needlessly.

      • Only the lowest of scum would take the job. There is no “hire better people” when the only people who would do the job are mouth breathing snowflake cowards with the deep seated need to have power over other people.

        • “Only the lowest of scum would take the job.”

          Chris, show us on the doll where the bad man touched you… 🙂

        • One does wonder which episode of ‘Cops’ he was featured in.

    • With the defunding of the police, reduction of available cops on duty we have to fact the hard fact that we are—like it or not—becoming our own first responders. If you have a spree killer in front of you and you are armed what are you going to do? If you don’t do anything then the likelihood of that guy killing you is quite high. Southerland Springs is a good example. So is the White Settlement church in Ft. Worth. Do you sit there and let those around you be killed or do you fight back? Guns give us a fighting chance. End of issue.

    • Loc as in crip
      Defund yourself

18. “Cops are so bloodthirsty, they’ll murder people that they admit are heroes that save them.”

    I am skeptical of cops, but….

    If you, a non-cop, come upon a situation where two people, dressed in non-cop clothing are in ambiguous position after reports of a shooting, what do you do? It appears one person is down, and another holding a deadly weapon. Do you hesitate, losing precious seconds, and do all the TV, pretend cop, stuff, or “stop the threat”. Cops shooting other cops in sketchy circumstances is not unknown, for the same reasons.

    We had reported on TTAG a case where a civilian held a perp at gunpoint, only to be killed by the perp’s partner that the armed civilian didn’t see. Defense of self and others is a risky proposition. When you intervene with a gun, all the possible outcomes are on your head.

    • Not apologizing for the cops here, nor am I full on condemning them. There’s simply not enough specifics to do so. I can understand though how anyone, cop or citizen, rolling up to a gunfight or where someone was shot and seeing a guy with a weapon standing over another dead or wounded person could make the wrong call. Even if the guy is a non-threat you have to worry that if you offer the opportunity to drop the weapon he could easily take a shot at you or finish off the victim he’s standing over. Granted, you shoot first and possibly end up with the situation that occurred. Its a tough call in a shitty situation. Best bet is to not have a gun out when popo rolls up, which means if you pull your gun shoot the fool, preferably dead, then scoot and call the cops from nearby so you don’t have to hold anyone at gun point.

      • “Best bet is to not have a gun out when popo rolls up,…”

        Indeed, indeed.

19. Lesson learned — let the cops fight their own battles. They won’t hesitate to kill you if you intervene. And then they’ll get a paid vacation while your family buries you.

    Cops are also adept at killing hostages, including men, women and babies. Look it up.

20. Know your target and what is beyond.

    Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt.

    …….unless you are a police officer

    • Exactly
      Cops should not have the privilege of being armed on duty.

      • This.

21. I respect the job that LE does but I don’t personally trust them. If it ain’t my circus I’m not getting involved. I carry a gun to stay alive, not to get shot by the police. They’ll figure the situation out with it without me.

    • Likewise. I’m glad LE is there, but I want nothing to do with them.

    • Fuck police. I don’t respect their “job”. If you understood their job, you wouldn’t either. Any idiot who joins to “serve* is the worst kind of stupid. So much misguided pride.

22. I always taught people to move the gun away from the suspect, put it on the ground, and put your foot on it. This enables you to ensure someone doesn’t walk away with the evidence and lowers the officers angst. Then holster your gun and make sure your hands are empty and visible when the police arrive.

23. Once again we see that government employees should not be allowed the privilege of being armed while on the job.

    Citizens should be armed not civilian government employees like cops.

24. Stop the Threat…Holster your firearm and then walk to a point some distance away as you are calling 911. This should be a plan thought about Long before it is needed. No different than having made the decision to act in the first place. Choosing to Act carries great responsibility. Knowing how to Act is no different. These types of scenarios should be a part of your Carry philosophy or Not. Just don’t act on a whim with no plan in place. Otherwise mistakes such as this person made can cost you your life. I’m not saying be a Rambo. Just know what you are willing to do and have plan for both action and after action.

    • When Leo are responding to a call of active shooter the adrenaline is off the charts. Tunnel vision is also a factor. Police are looking for guns as they pull up. Sadly everything starts to look like a gun and everyone looks like a suspect. How many times have we seen police order someone to drop what is in their hands and less than a second they shoot the possible suspect. Time disappears our eyes and brain play tricks on us. Everything becomes a nail for their hammer.

25. Protect you and yours. Others are free to carry a firearm. If they don’t, well …

    This is the lesson. If more people had been carrying that day, the perp wouldn’t have been able to take two steps without being out down. If he wasn’t nuts, he probably would have had second thoughts about the whole thing.

    We as a nation trained people to not drink and drive (thought it still happens), we can train people to carry responsibly.

    • “We as a nation trained people to not drink and drive (thought it still happens), we can train people to carry responsibly.“

      Mandatory training, including class time on rights & obligations of carrying a lethal weapon, as well as proficiency testing on a live fire range, for all who want to carry a lethal weapon in public spaces.

      • We have exactly that in South Carolina, but it’s up to the individual States to decide through their elected representatives not the Feds.

      • “Mandatory training, including class time on rights & obligations of carrying a lethal weapon, as well as proficiency testing on a live fire range, for all who want to carry a lethal weapon in public spaces.”

        Sounds good, and it should be done while in High School, alongside driver’s ed.

        That is actual ‘gun safety’ I could agree to.

        Oh, and once passed the test, travel and carry in all 50 states… 🙂

      • Mandatory training … in high school, or earlier, for everyone. Don’t pass, don’t advance a grade. State and Federal tax breaks for continuing training, and firearm, ammo, and accessories acquisition. No state or federal sales tax on firearms, ammunition or accessories. Optional organized competition state and country wide, with cash prizes.

        Inculcate a spirit of training and safety in the entire population.

26. This all started because of a condom.
    Kinda funny when you think about it.

27. A man with a rifle isn’t a problem. What if Hurley grabbed an AR from his vehicle instead of drawing a concealed pistol? Unless he did something threatening with the rifle, he should not have been shot.

28. Okay, this guy is a hero, hands down, a hero. That said, as a Retired LEO, and supervisor of many investigations, DO NOT PICK UP MY EVIDENCE IN MY CRIME SCENE! I can not imagine a good excuse for this action. If the suspect was still moving, pull/kick it away from him, DON’T TOUCH IT! And Please, all CCW/LTC/Constitutional Carry people, for God’s sake, the responding officers do not know you from Adam Henry, so help them out by not looking like the “man with a gun,” that they are responding to. This is an incredibly sad story, RIP Johnny Hurley, you were truly one of the good guys!

29. @Geoff “I’m just a gigalo, and everwhere I go…” PR

    “EDIT – Samuel, I was actually referencing the newer David Lee Roth version, but yours is much classier…”

    Being an OFWG, there are few songs later covered that are as good as, or better than, the originals; Ronstadt’s “Blue Bayou” being one of them.

    • “…that are as good as, or better than, the originals; Ronstadt’s “Blue Bayou” being one of them.”

      Indeed. 🙂

      My humorous version of Ronstadt’s ‘Blue Bayou’ was when she was on ‘The Muppet Show’.

      A chorus of frogs in a swamp ‘Rib bit-ing’ to accompany her… 😉

30. IMHO, Ronstadt took the song away from Roy Orbison, and “owned” it thereafter.

31. Every ody criticizing the guy for holding the AR.

    How about the tyrant who shot first and have verbal commands last, if at all. How about the tyrant who was not aimed at, ever. All this armchair warrioring and very few ask the right questions. Even if this man was holding the AR and aiming at the already dead ACTUAL shooter, or even just holding ANY weapon from any angle you would still be required to give verbal commands. This man was never a threat, he was assumed a threat because this poorly trained idiot allowed adrenaline to cloud his judgement. Fucking tyrants. This is why you just don’t get involved. Being a hero will get you killed by the jackbooted thugs you FUDDs consider heros, right up until you are their next target.

    • Montana Actual, NO let’s deal in reality for a minute.

      In a 10-999 (Officer down) call the cops are coming in blazing, end of story.
      No commands are required when you see dead fellow officers that are shot up.
      A very rare cop is going to bark commands, they know that in Colorado there is no death penalty.
      They are going to be judge, jury and executioner on the spot.
      The problem here was they thought John Hurley was the shooter.
      They were wrong. The outcome is tragic but avoidable.
      Think of the 911 calls that were coming in.
      “Some guy with a rifle or shotgun just killed two cops!”
      That isn’t some tyrant or jackbooted thugs thing.
      What Massad Ayoob teaches in his classes is don’t be holding a gun when the PD shows up.
      John Hurley was holding a rifle when the PD showed up.
      This is why the MAG40 class is $1000.

      To put it in a different perspective, imagine coming home to see your family has been killed.
      Your neighbor is holding a gun and you wife and kids are shot up.
      You aren’t going to start asking questions, you are going to kill the guy.
      The problem is your neighbor ran over because he heard gunshots in your house.
      You aren’t going to listen a word he says, your adrenaline is pumping intensely.
      The killer is long gone. You just killed the wrong guy.

    • My God grant you the fate you deserve.

32. Very sad but something everyone who has ever thought about intervening in such a situation should consider now, rather than at the time. First, do you intervene at all? Second, if you do, how can you intervene with the least chance of such a thing happening? There is a reason why police wear uniforms. And those who do not either do or should receive specific training on when and how to intervene to minimize chance of friendly fire. And sometimes it still fails.

    This is particularly relevant for any sort of ‘active shooter’ (think schools, etc) situation. Police have been trained to act very ‘decisively’ towards active shooting threats.

33. What a tragedy. So sad that a law abiding armed citizen who acted so bravely didn’t know or think about a deadly scenario that has resulted in deaths of off duty and plainclothes LEO’s over the years when responding officers who don’t know who you are arrive at a crime scene and mistakenly shoot a good guy that’s holding a gun. Anyone with a rifle in their hands when the police roll up on an active shooter with a rifle in progress call have a high probability of getting shot whether they’re an off duty or plainclothes officer, or a lawfully armed citizen.

34. I think if I came upon a situation where a cop was being shot ,I’d go back to his car and see what I could find.

35. There is a lot dissention in the ranks here.

    That said, it sure looks like big city police are being trained to shoot the first person they see with a gun when they run up on an active seen.

    How about defund the police and spend the money to train sheriffs?
    BLM may be right for the wrong reasons.

    • “police are being trained to shoot the first person they see with a gun when they run up on an active seen”. Unbelievably ignorant comment. Yes dumb@$$, when police respond to an active shooter scene they are trained to shoot the active shooter, and yes, if you’re holding a rifle when officers arrive it’s highly likely you’ll be the victim of a life or death split second decision made by an adrenaline charged police officer rushing toward danger who shoots what they mistakenly perceive to be an imminent threat.

      “defund the police and spend the money to train sheriffs?” Now that’s next level dumb@$$! How is it possible that someone can actually be that f***ing ignorant. Too funny!

36. Why is everyone leaving out that they covered the truth up for 4 days leading the public to believe he was a victim of the gunman when they clearly knew who and how? Why should I hang out for the police anymore if they aren’t assessing the situation before engaging? I could be wrong but I don’t believe Hurley was pointing a gun at the officer. Are we really going to give a free pass on this? Why are civilians held to a higher standard? We would be in jail right now on murder charges that would destroy our lives. Until I can get a reasonable answer to these thoughts, I think I’ll just go home after I put down a threat. Maybe they can figure it out without me. The law has been revealed as multi-tiered. We are on the bottom of that.

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