When you live in a “may issue” jurisdiction you may exercise one of your civil rights if and when government functionaries and bureaucrats deign to allow it. In the case of your right to armed self defense, you have to apply, on bended knee, and demonstrate that you have a need to protect yourself using the most reasonable, convenient and effective tool for the job.
The problem is, even if you’re somehow granted permission to exercise that right, that could later change depending on the whims of whomever may be in power at the time. That’s what’s now facing the few concealed carry permit holders in the City of Angels.
The Los Angeles Police Department has moved to cancel most of the few remaining concealed weapons permits in civilian hands, according to new filings in a decades-old legal case.
Chief Michel Moore said in a sworn declaration he did not believe a group of people who obtained so-called CCWs as the result of a 1994 lawsuit were still entitled to the permits, because it was unlikely the individuals still faced extraordinary physical danger to their lives.
Never mind that these people have been safely and lawfully carrying firearms for decades now. Chief Moore suspects that their circumstances have changed in the intervening years, so better to cancel their permits and make them beg for permission again.
“I do not believe the continued wholesale allowance for each to possess a CCW license based on circumstances that may have existed 24 years ago is in the best interest of the public,” Moore said.
Back in 1994, 30 people sued the city which had a de facto no carry permit policy at the time. As part of settling that suit, the city agreed to issue those plaintiffs carry permits.
Now the Chief wants to renege on that agreement. Because guns.
The City and Moore have asked a judge to vacate, or undo, the settlement, arguing that the document the City agreed to decades ago is now restricting Moore’s ability to exercise his discretion in deciding who is entitled to a CCW license. Additionally, Moore said the crime rate is down and there are more police officers on the streets, so the level of danger to an average person has been reduced.
His discretion. That’s the rub here. That’s the burr under the Chief’s imperious saddle. He had no say in these plaintiffs’ ability to exercise their right to keep and bear arms, therefore it has to stop. What do you suppose their chances are of successfully arguing that they still merit carry permits now?
Besides, as the chief points out, anyone in his city who finds him or herself in trouble can always just dial 911.
“Technology has improved tremendously in the last 24 years which has enabled individuals to instantly communicate with law enforcement via cellphones from anywhere and at any time should they feel threatened,” Moore said.
Average response time in Los Angeles: 5.7 minutes. What could possibly go wrong in that amount of time?
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That which the king giveth, the king may take away.
Put another way, 30 people scare this police chief, so he wants to take their freedom away.
Not a bad Idea. As it is noted, only a few permits are actually issued. Considering that there is some kind of corruption at almost every level, who’s to say that weather or not all the permits where/are issued accurately or accounted for. Like anything else that may bring value, these documents are subject to counterfeit. This really doesn’t change the policy as one is free to re-apply for a permit. The same criteria will be used to either issue or deny one. If one had legitimately received a permit in the past then the reasons for doing so should still hold up. It happens, bureaucracies get so inside out that it is easier to pull the plug than to fix a problem. They will re-brand it as a ‘new’ program, get even more tax dollars to support it and then start over doing the same old poop. The reality is that the legislature really doesn’t want to change anything that may cause them to actually do more work.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. NO permits needed. The Constitution is clear. infringe verb
in·fringe | \ in-ˈfrinj \
infringed; infringing
Definition of infringe
transitive verb
1 : to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another
infringe a patent.
INFRINGE implies an encroachment clearly violating a right or prerogative.
Apparently you do not own a gun or ever carried a gun. So yeah no big deal to you. A May issue jurisdiction has the right to deny you a permit and not re issue it no reason required. 30 law abiding people have permits. Out of a city of how many people? Just that alone should tell you something about the lack of Constitutional freedom in LA! I guess it doesn’t bother you that there are countless Felons and criminals running around the city with concealed handguns I hope you never have to wait the average 5.4 minutes for a police officer to respond to your emergency
“Technology has improved tremendously in the last 24 years which has enabled individuals to instantly communicate with law enforcement via cellphones from anywhere and at any time should they feel threatened,” Moore said.
Awesome…because having someone hear you die on the other end of the line is a great technological advancement…
“Instantly Communicate” is not “Teleport a cop to my location”…and, given, they have ‘no specific duty to protect’, even if they did, they ‘could’ just stand there and watch you get beat, stabbed, shot, raped to death…because going home safely at the end of their shift is the top priority you know.
“they have ‘no specific duty to protect’, even if they did, they ‘could’ just stand there and watch you get beat, stabbed, shot, raped to death…”
That’s what happened during the Mardi Gras riots in Seattle in 2001, when the leftist mayor and the leftist police chief ordered the cops to stand down. It ended up with Kris Kime being murdered and many others being badly beaten. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQMhZwB3TXE
Or, they could kill a hostage, as LAPD did in this video (their own body cam video) in 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGxA1y1TjgM&feature=youtu.be (the relevent portion is from about 6:30 to about 7:30)
“Life in a ‘May Issue’ State: LA Moves to Cancel Remaining Concealed Carry Permits”
And what the “bangers” in south central, or watts, or any other part of the city/county of LA…???
Standin’ on street corners, with full auto AK’s, “protecting” THEIR turf, what are LA leo’s doing about that…???
Are they really standing around with full auto AK’s? Citation needed. Although I agree with the spirit of your comment.
…um…. you can just google image search “los angeles gang guns”…. they love taking pictures of themselves and putting it on the internet.
Hear, hear…
When I lived in the Bay area, there is a place that service people wouldn’t go into without leo escort, it was/is called Hunters Point, same deal, guns on every corner, bad place to be…Milwaukee has similar areas, not to mention chiraq, detroit, cinci, etc…
There ARE full-auto AKs out there, obtained from black market sources. a container load was captured a few years ago, but you can bet that many more have been undetected.
If you’ve forgotten or never heard because it didn’t get much time on the news… California State Senator Leeland Yee (D) was convicted for taking bribes and engaging illegal arms trafficking. He was one of the most outspoken people in favor of gun-control laws. He was even on the Brady honor roll.
Time to sue the stink out of these freedom hating bastards.
It has been tried. Several times. After Peruta v. Gore, in which the Ninth Circus declared that CCWs are a privilege and not a right, there is no purpose in suing until the SCOTUS steps in.
“…there is no purpose in suing until the SCOTUS steps in.”
(Crossing fingers)
Thomas & Co, hear our plea –
Deliver us from un-justness…
The SCOTUS doesn’t just “step in” unless there is a lawsuit for them to respond to. Not suing until they step in is inherently self-defeating.
Them denying cert to Peruta was a travesty, but I can understand why they did it, since Kennedy was still on the court. Roberts might possibly decide to take up his mantle, but he hasn’t ruled on a gun-related case since Heller, in which he took the correct side, so even though he made a bad call on Obamacare, we have no particular reason to believe he has drifted further leftward on this issue. The numbers are more in our favor than they were when Peruta was denied cert.
And yet the rich, famous and the politically connected have no problems getting permits and police tend to respond much quicker to these types than the average citizen.
I live in this hellhole of a city and our crime rates for murder may be down but our property crime rates are through the roof. My garage was burgled last week in fact and the officers I spoke with said they have never seen the level of property crimes we ha e now in their entire careers. I will say their response time for a non emergency was good though, maybe 8 min.
The homeless problem here is unbelievable and it’s a direct consequence. Every overpass is lined with tents underneath and it’s just disgusting. I’ve been driving around this city for 18 years and it is turning into an absolute shithole and I am doing everything I can to get out.
Never mind the fact that our 2nd amendment rights are subject to the whims of chumps like this guy. Los Angeles will be the shit and needle covered trash heap that Frisco is in 5-7 years, maybe less.
you can thank your fellow voters for that upswing in crime
prop 47 and others lowered LOTS of felonies to misdemeanors or lower….most shoplifting is only a ‘ticket’ crime now….thanks dems
criminals actually said they moved to cali from other states for the laws and getting off easier!
You are absolutely correct my friend. They are letting people out after serving 20-30% of their sentence and that’s if they even get a sentence.
Police don’t even go after petty crimes anymore because they know that no prosecuter will charge for them. I came across this scumbag who offered to get me cheap tools and upon asking him how he does it, he casually told me he just makes sure to steal less than $1000 worth of items and the cops will always let him go.
It’s a town slipping into the dump day by day and city council decision by city council decision. Just wish I didn’t have a business here and I could watch it crash and burn from afar.
I moved out last year in May to Georgia and let me tell you the drop in prices of services and purchased items PLUS taxes was eye opening
you might want to look into moving too?
the savings might make that worth it…let them drown there and take your money with you
Because in my case I have seen an actual 6% savings over living in LA at the least or more!
not to mention the gun stores here are like candy shops to my old trapped in LA/cali eyes!
The most beautiful thing about prop 47 is that all the progressive politicians (Dianne, Nancy, Gavin, Kamala, all the chiefs of police, districts attorneys, etc) in the state backed it like a screaming chorus. They cannot back away from it, and they cannot claim they are though on crime. It’s an easy hammer for the opposition, if they want to be POTUS or push a federal “crime reform” bill…. “look to California my friends . See your future” indeed.
Obob, if you are anywhere close to Marietta, you need to check out Adventure Outdoors. They took over an old supermarket and all down the sides and back are lined with counters full of pistols with racks of long guns behind them. The middle of the store is filled with everything from bulk ammo to reloading, and holsters to safes. Those guys have good prices on most of what they sell and have sold me a bunch of stuff over the years.
OBOB and Rusty Chains: A year and a half ago, I moved out of CA; I was considering GA, but made the mistake of moving to OR. It has turned out to be no better than a junior CA, except with bad weather. The same kind of leftists run government all up and down the west coast. When I can afford to move again, maybe I will move to GA. Any suggestions for a community in the Atlanta area that is both affordable and decent?
Seattle is going down the same path.
If the progressive cancer isn’t stopped, it’s going to be worse than San Fran in a decade or so. A superficially beautiful city that no normal person can afford (or would want) to live in.
FYI for all
Seattle is Dying, 1hr long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw
This Is a Libertarian utopia. You can take all the drugs you want in public or private. The government will give it to you for “free”. You can urinate or defecate in public now. Historically Libertarians have always been against laws penalizing people who use the bathroom in public. If you don’t know this then you need to educate yourself on the things the Libertarians have publicly promoted in the past. But they are VERY QUIET about it now.
I don’t care what you do in private. But Libertarians promote destructive human public behavior. And arresting people is not the answer. Shaming people is the answer. That is how we use to keep destructive people under control. And at no cost to taxpayers. It’s called morality. Something Libertarians Liberals and the Left hate. And morality has very little to do with sex.
For all of you who think the police are on our side—aka the side of obeying their oath to “protect, preserve, and defend” the Constitution—please read this again. Also, I count on less than half of the military—and no more than a quarter of field grade and above officers—to follow their oath.
This story tells you exactly whose side the police are on.
https://reason.com/blog/2019/03/27/sick-2-year-old-swat-team-dcs-parents
The police said that it was not a SWAT team, for one, and for two, they had a warrant that allowed them to enter. The warrant was issued on the basis that the 2 year old’s fever was a threat to his life. (It was 105 when measured by a doctor.) Father stated that the fever had broken in the several hours between the doctor visit, and he did not want to be subject to a several thousand dollar ER bill if he took the kid in (which is perfectly understandable), but of course the police were not given the opportunity to see the child.
LOL Great so they weren’t wearing SWAT uniforms and didn’t have snipers. BUT they did bust down the door and enter with guns drawn (luckily not blazing but then again the family did not own an attack chihuahua). This is supposedly a free country. Since the Democrats scream that not only is it a ‘right’ for women to murder their children but it is also a requirement that the taxpayers’ foot the bill. why the fuss over this mother’s My kid, my choice? Indeed in Chicago a judge ruled that a woman who threw her new born baby to its death out of a fourth story window deserved no jail time because ‘she came from a hard family.’
As long as I can shoot the cops who conduct a warrantless, no knock raid, I will be happy. If they have a warrant then that’s a different story. After that its a courtroom issue.
This is becoming very tiring, there is nothing in OUR 2nd amendment about CCW or back ground checks. This was tried in 1775 and didn’t go very well for politicians and from everything I’m reading it will not go over well now.
We should send in the Marines and slap cuffs on this scumbag for trying to take away civil rights under the color of law.
Agreed. We should, as citizens of this country, dictate whether or not government employees can be armed, not the other way around.
In other countries, the people can decide how their police work. In America, the police get very angry if the people have power over them.
What is considered tyranny?
That’s a loser. the Ninth Circuit has declared that there is no civil right to carry a concealed firearm. therefore a civil rights suit would necessarily fail.
The 9th circus can join him in his cell.
The Marines are for foreign enemies. The militia is for domestic enemies. You are never going to see those 3 percenters doing what they preach.
Given how deep in the pocket of the CCP we find the average Demokkkommie, I don’t think that’s much of a problem.
Because your cell phone may get our response time down from 12 minutes to 11 minutes we don’t think you have any need to defend yourself.
If Chief Michel Moore really believes the drivel he is spouting, he should offer to resign his position and forfeit his pension to the first victim that calls 911 where help fails to arrive in time.
If Chief Michel Moore really believes the drivel he is spouting he should require that all off duty cops NOT carry,. Then lets see how long he lasts.
I thought Michael Moore was an actor. He’s the Poolice chief as well! Who knew? No wonder he is now trampling on upstanding citizens rights.
This Police Chief is a classic example of why most people would not piss on them if they were lying on the ground on fire.
I also read that recently one of the California Courts declared that no one should be able to carry a gun outside the home because they were automatically a danger to the cops who protect the judges who are all armed to the teeth. Considering the fact that in Bulgaria and Russia and some other countries as well you can still get a permit to buy a newly made automatic weapon its obvious to see that California is more Communist than many of the East block countries. Seriously I am not being facetious.
And california likes it’s communism that way. At least the coastal areas do.
Was I the only one wondering when Louisiana turned so liberal after just reading the headline?
Not the only one. Crossed my mind too!
Here in central Florida, if you say “LA”, people assume you are talking about Lake Alfred :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Alfred,_Florida
Yeah, it’s a Podunk small-town of 5,000.
The banjos don’t twang as much as the Mariachi guitars strum…
Is the antique fishing tackle store still there? Lake Alfred is where my mom and dad lived till she died. Then pop moved in with us in Wesley Chapel.
Let’s print the names and addresses of the people that got permit recently. I’m guessing you’d see a lot of celebrities and politicians. Are they getting revoked too? Hah. Time to make them follow the same law. Our attorney general was going to print the names of everyone who has a FOID care here. I had friends that got the card and had no gun. Just didn’t want the bad guys to know they were unarmed at home.
“Let’s print the names and addresses of the people that got permit recently.”
Ever since that young actress got stalked and killed about 30 years back, California has clamped down on public data being released ‘on demand’.
I bet carry permit data is among the ‘protected’ variety…
5.7 minute response time? There’s no way it’s that short. Maybe if you lived near a station, and only when the new shift is pulling out of the station.
They get a lot of calls near their station because of homeless and druggies. Really helps their stats.
A little reminder of what could happen when you rely entirely on LAPD.
Most police do not attend handgun training classes. The average civilian is just as accurate as your average cop. Most cities don’t what to support $$$ for more training. If you go to the range once a month, you will have more range time than most police in a year.
LAPD trains regularly at Angeles and Burro Canyon ranges. Just ask anyone who has been at Angeles on a Thursday.
The LAPD is not a average representation of the police in the USA. They have much more $$$ than most city departments.
“The Los Angeles Police Air Support Division resources consist of 19 helicopters ranging from 5 Bell 206 Jet Rangers to 14 Eurocopter AS350-B2’s, and also has 1 Beechcraft King Air 200[107]”
“Main airship missions are flown out of downtown’s Piper Tech center at the Hooper Heliport, located outside of Union Station. The LAPD also houses air units at Van Nuys Airport.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Police_Department#Aviation
I live in Phoenix, Arizona. Constitutional carry. Probably the largest and most populated metropolitan place in America that has Constitutional carry. There are shootings here, but at least we have the means to shoot back. The right to buy weapons is the right to be free. I will die a citizen before I will live as a subject. -30-
It used to be that way in FL. but the state took it out of sheriffs hands because they would not issue any permits put under Dept of Agarture for some unknown reason but it has worked up till now and now a democrat was elected to that job and I have heard that she was making it hard on some current holders will have to wait a little longer to see what’s going on but if shes doing that next election she will be gone because we have a lot of CCW here
Jesus Christ. I thought you meant Louisiana, Which would have foretold the end times.
It isn’t a right apparently.its a negotiable thing.
Lookit the four-star general!
He does command a force of 9000 men under arms. That’s a pocket division. So… he can rate 2 stars.
I wonder how much ambition would be tempered if these guys had to trade in the uniform when they graduate to the desk job? Elaborate military uniforms tend to attract a certain…personality.
The thing is, most of the people that won that lawsuit- are jewelers downtown. You know, downtown L.A. where all the homeless people are and the jewelry stores are constantly robbed and/or broken into.
Yikes! Taking CCL from legal lawabiding folks may get your precious boyz in blue blasted. They just had a funeral procession through my town for a goofy 23year old Chiraq cop. Hanging out at 3:30am in downtown Chicago calling it a “hate crime” even while off duty. You or would just be another statistic. He’s a hero for being stupid. The po-leece are not your friend…
“Life in a ‘May Issue’ State: LA Moves ….”
Since you reference State and LA, it reads like the State of Louisiana
LA should be changed to Los Angeles
I want to know how many white homosexuals have a gun permit??? I believe connected white people will always have a gun permit. Including white gay people. Who are very wealthy especially in the movie business in LA county. Yeah that’s right I said it. Now you can can me a homophobe as the FUDDs support his crap.
“Few Concealed Handgun Permits Given to Hispanics, Blacks, or Women in Los Angeles County”
https://crimeresearch.org/2017/07/concealed-handgun-permits-given-hispanics-blacks-women-los-angeles-county/
“Who’s Packing Heat In L.A. County? Sheriff Lee Baca’s Gun Permit List Includes Many Personal Friends”
https://www.laweekly.com/news/whos-packing-heat-in-la-county-sheriff-lee-bacas-gun-permit-list-includes-many-personal-friends-4174664
A lot of those are gone, Baca is gone. Before they got rid of him, the rumor around town was that the easiest way to get a ccw permit in L.A. County was to donate $10k to Sheriff Baca’s reelection campaign.
(note that LAPD and LASD are two different entities and grant their permits separately)
Up in San Francisco, it doesn’t matter how white, how connected, or how rich, or how gay you are, you cannot get a permit. AFAIK, DiFi was the last civilian to get a permit (when she was a supervisor threatened by a domestic terrorist group), and that was 40+ years ago.
I believe Sean Penn is a resident of San Francisco. He has had guns and a permit for quite awhile now. I bet he still has his permit. As I said before If your are a rich white, gay or not, you get to have a gun permit. Gun Control is racist.
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/double-standard-criticized-sean-penn-gun-thefts
“The City and Moore have asked a judge to vacate, or undo, the settlement, arguing that the document the City agreed to decades ago is now restricting Moore’s ability to exercise his discretion in deciding who is entitled to a CCW license…”
Yeah, that’s sort of the whole point of the lawsuit, dingus.
9th Circuit has been making some interesting moves lately. I’d love to see this dimwit score on his own goal by bringing this up where he could have let it lie until these 30 (!!!) people moved away or died.
Remember, these are the cowardly imbeciles who tried to slaughter the two paper delivery women Emma Hernandez and Margie Carranza during the Dorner Debacle.
What I wonder is why so many liberals who ally themselves witht he Black Lives Matter ®™ also support laws that give police discretion to issue pistol permits.
Criminals who are violent felons serve months not years thanks to plea deals, overworked justice system and standing room only in prison.
A 6 minute response time (if it’s actually that fast) is pretty good. The question is whether it’s adequate. Adequate means before the bad guy harms you.
Isn’t the average time for a mass killing 7 minutes?
When someone walks into a school and starts killing a lot of people the murdering is done by the time police show up. I guess America is going to need gun control like safe places such as Australia and New Zealand to fix that.
In 5 minutes a crazy scumbag could wipe out you and your entire (unarmed) family.
This so called “public servant’s’ antics are the very best argument against discretionary issue imaginable.
Regarding response time, think the chief would be willing to wait the referenced 5-6 minutes? Think he or others would survive that 5-6 minute wait? What happens when and if the innocents who were reduced to waiting didn’t survive? Will the chief miss lunch? I doubt it.
Since he knows exactly who these permit holders are, he should be able to produce documentation of how many weapons-related crimes they have been convicted of. That would tell everyone how valid his argument is. If they have not committed any crimes, or if their crime rate is below the general population’s, his point is moot. Of course, facts and logic mean nothing to Leftists, it’s all about “feelings.” So AOC says.
California is one severely messed up place to live. I left MA decades ago because of the same type of repressive regime.
YO! Buttheads, which and how many crimes will that prevent? That’s about as logical as playing with rabid raccoons!! When you in the dictionary for the word “Stupid” there is a map of California.
I left the People’s Republik of Kalifornia last June and have lived in a small Texas town (pop. 6000) ever since. My wife and I miss the San Diego area weather and some wonderful neighbors, but nothing else. Not easy to pick up and move at 75 and 81, respectively, but today we went to a small town cafe for lunch and I had my new CHL in my wallet and my .38 snubbie in my IWB holster, my flannel shirt over it. I bet I wasn’t the only patron exercising my 2d Amendment rights, either. It’s just as natural as sunshine and bluebonnets here. Kids under 10 actually go on deer hunts with dad, here. Totally common thing, here.
California is going down the drain rapidly. My sympathies to any patriot who for reasons of job or family cannot leave.
Texas is worlds better on gun freedom, among other things, than California, but you still have to get permission from the state to exercise your 2A rights.
the ridiculous part of it is, those of us who live in different counties can get a CCW and then legally carry in Los Angeles. that’s right.. while a CCW is issued by the grace of each sheriff of each county, the actual permit is good state wide. So while law abiding Angelinos are are denied, I can travel and stay in Los Angeles concealed carrying.
one fucked up state..
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/California_CCW_Issuance_Map.png
This map shows 5 counties surrounding LA County are GTG for ease of applying for a CCW permit. I understand that LA County is not as bad compared to the City of LA. I’m sure folks can figure out where most of the Dems live on the map.
Has the good Chief announced his candidacy yet? What is he going to run for that he has to dust off 24 y/o decisions to break balls about? Although he does look like a sweetheart so maybe I’m overthinking.
The government agreeing to a contract and then asking another portion of the government to let said government break that contract?
Shocking. To my knowledge this has never happened before in history.
Yes…and the ugly ugly truth is EVERYONE living in a “shall issue” state is ONE ELECTION away from being returned to a “MAY issue” state….or a state that eliminates the provision for CCW permits. ALL that is required is for the commie demonrats to control the legislature by 51% to 49% and to have a commie demonrat governor who will sign commie demonrat legislation. And for those not paying attention ending
legal CCQ is one of the MANY goals of the commie left…..by ANY MEANS NECESSARY.
All freedoms and privileges are one election cycle away from destruction at all times.
It’s been that way for the entire world for the history of humanity. We, here in this country, just started to pay more attention to this fact a bit before we put that observation in writing around 1789.
All citizens that care about their right to bear arms should never donate to any charity or participate in community activities set up by police until the police department gives everyone rights that they deserve.. and for those who say it’s not the police’s fault..YES IT IS!
What a dumbass. He’s clearly in need of a mental examination to determine if he’s fit to be chief. Oh well, Gun Owners will sue and then that d-bag will be forced to grovel at their feet.
The weak and greedy “personalities” of this country will not be satisfied, or stop stealing Americans rights, until they are free to do so without expectation of resistance from a moral opposition. Then, and only then, will they finally feel safe enough to feign owning the balls to walk on the Constitution that refuses them the right to be dictatorial oligarchs intent on turning this great nation into a socialistic hellhole, quickly refashioning itself into a communist waste of life. I gleefully piss on the “educated” idiots of this world, believing that grossly overpaying for a diploma (if they ever do) to validate their existence as lazy “intellectuals” is an accomplishment. The average high school diploma from 40 or 50 years ago was basically free and far out distances what these twits sell their futures for. This cop feels he is due a position at the top of the heap just because no one was watching or filming as he did the felonious crap that floated this turd to the top of the toilet. Stay in LA sugar britches…life is different in the real world.
Remember, when seconds count, the police will be there in minutes!!
When seconds count, LAPD is 5.7 minutes away …..nice