Legal Advice: Don’t Make Cosmetic Changes to Your Personal Defense Gun

Derek DeBrosse, a lawyer specializing in defending gun owners who get in trouble, has interesting advice for those who bear arms: don't carry a pink gun, and definitely don't carry a gun with the Punisher logo on it. Why? Because "the jury is going to see it." Kind of obvious, when you think about it.

courtesy boingboing.com

If you saw our list of the top five most-read TTAG posts during 2017, you’ll have noticed that number two on this year’s hit parade was about a cop who had “You’re F**cked” engraved on his AR’s dust cover. The prosecution attempted (and ultimately failed) to use that little bit of customization against him in court when he shot a suspect with the rifle and was subsequently charged with second degree murder.

It’s in that spirit that we pass on this boingboing.com article, Don’t carry a gun with Punisher logo on it. featuring the video below from attorney Derek DeBrosse on why blingy or custom decorated firearms could come back to haunt you should you ever have to pull the trigger in a self defense situation.

Good advice?

comments

  1. avatar FedUp says:

    Since it might have been successfully used against Brailsford if the judge wasn’t a copsucker, it’s not a good idea to do it, especially if you wouldn’t be a judge friendly defendant.

    Then there’s the advice we’ve been getting for years that lightening the trigger pull would be used as evidence that we wanted to kill people…but I don’t know of that ever happening in court.

    1. avatar FedUp says:

      And woe be onto the poor slob who has pro 2A or anti government slogans on the gun he uses to defend his house from a no-knock home invasion, even if his house wasn’t the one named in the search warrant.

    2. avatar Madcapp says:

      This is why its so hard to buy something used. People love dicking up their guns, especially the Glock crowd (see Thunder Ranch on youtube for a good Clint rant about dicked-up Glocks). Fortunately for the 1911 crowd, you can buy brand new factory dicked-up 1911s with a confederate flag, or in zombie apocalypse green (thanks Iver-Johnson) or whatever other ignorant BS you could dream up because the 1911 crowd is the biggest bunch of inbred morons in the gun community. Happy new year.

      1. avatar neiowa says:

        Thanks Gomer good to know info.

      2. avatar Just Sayin says:

        Madcapp, dude, eat a Snickers Bar…

        1. avatar Ed says:

          LMFAO…seriously. are we really showing predjudice towards a entire group of fellow gun owners over their perfered type of pistol? Thats like saying anyone with a nickel plated pistol must be a pimp. For christ sake, what the ever lovin fuck is wrong with some people?

      3. avatar Ironhead says:

        This will hands down be the most ignorant statement ive read all year.
        Cant say ive ever been able to tell if someone is an inbred moron cause they shoot a 1911. Or a jackass cause the have a glock. Or an operator operating operationally cause they have a tricked out AR. Or a fudd cause they have a shotgun. Or any other stupid stereotypes.
        And quite honestly i dont care if they are. People are who they are, and if you dont like what they shoot, then dont talk to them.
        Anyway, happy new year everyone, be safe.

        1. avatar Slab Rankle says:

          That may have been an ignorant statement, but you responded to it like a virtue signalling snowflake.

          Get over yourself!

        2. avatar Scott Wardwell says:

          Yeah, I didn’t realize my father was an inbred moron for carrying a 1911 while in the Pacific during that little dust-up with the Japanese.
          And I must be a Fascist for owning the Beretta 92A1 and Manfrotto tripods. I am still working on the wife to let me have a Lambo Countach.

      4. avatar Jared says:

        That’s funny, I own some very expensive 1911’s that the total cost is probably worth more than your 401k.

        Many of us aren’t “rednecks”, some of us even own airplanes.

        1. avatar DONALD TAYLOR says:

          right on my friend.

      5. avatar Cundalini says:

        This is the best, most accurate comment I’ve read on TTAG. Thank you sir!

      6. avatar Edward Allen says:

        WOW! MadCapp. You really do have issues, don’t you. I own 1911s, Glock, Beretta and others. I am not a redneck. In fact, I am a professional white collar worker.

        You may be reflecting on yourself.

        I find that most people who own 1911s are, in fact, rather proud of the firearm of choice because it is a classic and still is extremely reliable.

        Get a grip and play nice.

      7. avatar Steve Day says:

        Madcapp, perhaps you should change your username to “Miserable Git” instead.

    3. avatar Mark N. says:

      Personally, I had no problem with the slogan inside the dust cover–because if it is open, then at least one shot has been fired, and the guy at the receiving end truly is f**ked.

      1. avatar Hank says:

        See I liked the idea of putting “I’m fucked” instead on the inside, as a note to how the legal system is about to have your ass for daring to defend your life from violent attack.

        1. avatar Button Gwinnett says:

          That cop’s life was not ever in danger. He shot a man in the back, who was laying on the ground in his boxers.

    4. avatar Jack Gordon says:

      If you use something that comes from the factory (an S&W Performance Center Airweight, for example) with a tweaked trigger, you won’t have to worry about county prosecutors making hamburger of your self-defense case. Tinker with the thing yourself and….you’re asking for trouble.

  2. avatar Some Bloke says:

    Fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud fud

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Why do you say that? What is your reasoning? The fact of the matter is that the prosecutor will use anything and everything at his disposal to show that you are nothing but a vicious murderer just waiting for an excuse to kill someone. If that happens to be a logo on the gun, hand loaded HPs (where velocity cannot be replicated and as far as the prosecutor is concerned these are “high power” rounds–as if that is a bad thing, but he or she will say or imply that it is), ANYTHING that can be used to hang you out to dry will be used. Will it work? Depends on the jurisdiction and the jury that is drawn, but it has been tried, as Masaad Ayoob has talked about in a number of articles.

    2. avatar BLoving says:

      Unhelpful slogans/logos:
      Punisher logo
      Biohazard logo
      Skull&Crossbones/Jolly Roger
      “Kill em’ all, let God sort them out”
      Anything antipolice, white supremacist, black supremacist, etc.

      Helpful slogans/logos:
      Hello Kitty
      Disney characters
      Inspirational/positive Bible verses (avoid ones about justice/wrath/God’s punishments)
      Flowers
      Bunnies

      Ambiguous, neutral slogans/logos:
      Commemorative names/dates
      Wildlife scenes/animals
      Stylized engraving
      Inlaid factory markings
      Custom replacement grips

      In short, don’t be a douche.
      🤠

      1. avatar Anymouse says:

        Disney and Hello Kitty will get you strung up if a kid gets ahold of it and shoots someone. Attractive nuisance blah blah blah.

    3. avatar California Richard says:

      “……If there is a picutre of a box of zombie ammo next to the MURDER gun, then that may inflame the passions of the jury…..” For my defense attorney to make the automatic assumption that my lawful self defense was murder is horrifying. God I hope he doesn’t make gaffs like that in front of a jury. Or he may be a Fudd. I don’t think that a person who thinks deeply about these gun issues takes terminology lightly as it is litterally a matter of life and death or freedom and prison.

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        The prosecutor throughout trial will refer to it as “the murder weapon.” Obviously. This is not a reflection on the defense attorney’s opinion as to your guilt or innocence, but what in fact will happen at trial in front of a jury. And in the end, what you think, what your attorney thinks, what the prosecutor thinks, matters not at all; it is what the jury thinks, the impressions and opinions they’ve formed, and what they think of you, most of all, and the attorneys second, that matters. This guy is simply offering helpful suggestions for the jury to side with you, which is particularly important when the defense carries the burden of proving lawful self-defense.

        1. avatar California Richard says:

          Fair enough… i may be dim or getting slow in my old age. I just hate that whole presumption of guilt based on “inflamed emotions”….. I guess my emotions were inflamed and I judged him unfairly. 🤔

      2. avatar NateInPA says:

        It’s called “justifiable homicide (murder)” for a reason. Whether we like the terminology or not, that is what it is.

        1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being with malice aforethought, express or implied. (Common law definition, meaning it is probably the best “universal” definition in America).

          A self defense killing is not murder because it is not unlawful.

        2. avatar Roymond says:

          So if a prosecutor uses the word “murder” in a trial the defense should object, because that has not been established — that’s what the trial is for.

        3. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          In some circumstances yes, in others no. Sometimes objections are made just to throw the other attorney off their game. Objecting to calling the weapon a “murder weapon” would be a good example of this. It’s probably not a sustainable objection, but would have enough grounds to not anger the judge. I don’t go to trial all that often, so I haven’t mastered the rules of evidence and have to brush up on them before trial.

          My comment was more to the point that justifiable homicide is not murder in any way, shape, or form by definition. Calling it “justifiable homicide (murder)” is wrong.

  3. avatar Old Region Fan says:

    It’s very good advice and not enough attention is paid to this. The self defense culture is not a fashion statement or a popularity contest. I see a large percentage of the younger/ newer shooters falling into this. Another issue is the signs and property notifications people buy stating things like “we don’t dial 911”. Trespassers will be shot and survivors will be shot again”. Very bad in court and not good for gaining the middle of the road people who want into our culture but are not sure. Do you want to be it ? Or look like it ?

    1. avatar Dev says:

      I’ve been seeing those same signs (trespassers will be shot, etc.) for almost 40 years now since I was a kid growing up in the 80s. I can’t recall a case where those type of signs helped a prosecutor convict someone.

      1. avatar Swarf says:

        Either way, why would you advertise what you’ve got in your house? You can’t be on guard 100% of the time.

        Might as well put a sign up saying “Easy loot inside!”

        1. avatar Hoyden says:

          Glock, H&K, Assault-Life, and other stickers on vehicles is almost as asinine as GunFreeZone.

      2. avatar Erik Weisz says:

        Same here – signs like that are quite common in the South, and it seems no one takes them seriously except perhaps potential bad guys. I’ve never heard of any attempt to include such signs in any kind of prosecution, though that may be because it’s rare for a crime to occur there in the first place. Those signs are a joke, not an advertisement, admission, inventory or threat.
        Re: stickers on your vehicle window glass: why not? The only thing more asinine than the people who think they’re asinine would be leaving guns in your vehicle whether there are stickers on it or not. Pro-gun stickers on your car/truck is advertising for the lifestyle and our rights, and counter the leftist BS – answering them with silence is no better than condoning their warped point-of-view.

        1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          My only problem with putting gun stickers on a car is that criminals are more likely to burgle the car while parked in a gun free zone hoping to find a gun. It’s a personal choice I’ll never criticize, but there are valid concerns.

        2. avatar Erik Weisz says:

          We don’t really have any “gun-free” zones around here (Western NC), nor do we have many car break-ins. I can (and do) legally carry everywhere I go, even school properties. I get what you’re saying, but I just don’t have a lot of experience with it. On those rare occasions I have had to go in a prohibited place, I carry anyway TBH, unless they have metal detectors, in which case I just don’t go there. I can’t recall ever having left a gun in my truck, in any case.

    2. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

      Although it sounds reasonable and I don’t display such things myself, I haven’t seen much, if any, evidence that what you said is true. Could you a cite some evidence?

    3. avatar Mack Bolan says:

      Finger wag much?

      You shouldn’t give a rats ass how, what, or why someone wants to carry, or what stickers and signs they want to put up. Their rights, their choice.

      1. avatar Erik Weisz says:

        Bingo.

  4. avatar Old Region Fan says:

    It’s very good advice and not enough attention is paid to this. The self defense culture is not a fashion statement or a popularity contest. I see a large percentage of the younger/ newer shooters falling into this. Another issue is the signs and property notifications people buy stating things like “we don’t dial 911”. Trespassers will be shot and survivors will be shot again”. Very bad in court and not good for gaining the middle of the road people who want into our culture but are not sure. Do you want to be IT or look like I ?

  5. avatar Wedge259 says:

    Ive always thought stuff like that was tacky, and it seems every other Glock or 1911 for sale on armslist has a punisher end plate or grips on them.

    1. avatar NJ2AZ says:

      i bought a G26 from a guy years back with the intention of using it as a carry piece. Of course it came with a Punisher slide plate, and the very first thing i did when i got it home was take that thing out.

      i can’t even comprehend how someone would think its a good idea to put a Punisher logo on a firearm if one intends to carry it for self defense.

  6. avatar dph says:

    Bullsh!t, just about every gun maker out there offers guns in every color imaginable. What colors are ok? FDE, but not purple, black is somehow better than OD green? What about two tone guns or polished finishes or fancy engraving or Ceracoating? The LC9s for example comes in 17 different finishes.

    1. avatar Astigmatism says:

      How about blame on Hollywood for creating the character in the first place?
      Anyone think that will ever happen?

      1. avatar Evill_genius says:

        Hollywood didn’t make the character. Research before posting. The Punisher character has been around since 1974, when he appeared in an Amazing Spider-Man issue.

        1. avatar FedUp says:

          And in the 1970s, Marvel wasn’t considered part of the Hollywood entertainment scene, although we did have Bill Bixby and Lou Ferrigno as The Incredible Hulk.

          But in this century, I think you’d have to say Marvel is Hollywood. How many currently running TV series do they have now, and how many movies have they released in the last five years?

  7. avatar jwm says:

    A pepto pink 1911 with a skull on it? That owner should have gone to jail before he ever fired a shot.

    We really need fashion police in this country.

    1. avatar Just Sayin says:

      Amen

  8. avatar A O says:

    A few attorneys have advised against making changes to the triggers on my weapons, giving guide of the same reasons listed above for cosmetic changes.

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      shysters and anuses.

      1. avatar A O says:

        One sample they provided is the sympathetic grasp. If you put a lighter trigger in and this happens, the accused will say it happened because you lowered the weight and that is a direct cause of it firing, resulting in you having a large judgement pitted against you.

        Another provided was if you install it yourself and you are not an armorer, you may have done something wrong and if you are not trained to do what you did, it’s your job to prove that you did it correctly and that it was not a result of your fail job.

        Want a better trigger? Get a better gun. SIG Legion would work for that.

        1. avatar Cole says:

          But if it was a justified shooting and you admit to pulling the trigger because your life was in danger than it doesn’t matter if the trigger wasn’t installed properly or that your not an armorer. The only concern should be whether the shooting was justified and nothing on the gun or improvements you’ve made to the gun should matter.

        2. avatar Erik Weisz says:

          Cole:
          Exactly – and in spite of all the whining that it does matter even though it shouldn’t (or should, according to some of the fashion-police grouches around here), the only case where it even kinda mattered is the reference to the cop’s dust cover, where in the end, that actually didn’t matter at all anyway, and the pettiness of the prosecutor trying to bring it up may have negatively affected his case anyway. The only reason anyone is even aware of this case is because it’s the only one. AFAIK, no one else has ever even attempted to bring up any such thing in court, because it ISN’T relevant, no matter how much these grandmas fear that someone else will think it is. I’ve even heard warnings of offensive t-shirts disqualifying a person from their right to self defense (in concealed carry classes, no less), which is also nothing but fear-mongering – it doesn’t matter at all WTF anyone’s t-shirt says, they have the right to defend themselves regardless of how offended anyone else is, and again, I am unaware of any time whatsoever such a thing has been an issue at all in a prosecution or defense.

  9. avatar Joe Brown says:

    That cop deserved prison…

    1. avatar Huntmaster says:

      I will always have serious questions about any department that allowed an officer to carry anything other than standard issue firearms. Personally customized firearms? Really. Most employers have very specific rules about uniformed employees wearing anything not authorized. This tells me a lot about the department leadership.

    2. avatar Huntmaster says:

      I will always have serious questions about any department that allowed an officer to carry anything other than standard issue firearms. Personally customized firearms? Most employers have very specific rules about uniformed employees wearing anything not authorized. This tells me a lot about the department leadership.

      1. avatar Mark H says:

        POW (personally owned weapon). Mesa PD, like most departments allows use of POWs under certain conditions. You don’t even have to carry the dept. issued Glock 22 if you don’t like Glocks. POW sidearm must be either striker or DAO though. I know a couple Mesa PD who carry DAO Sigs instead of Glocks.

        None of which has any bearing on the fact that the cop basically got away with murder.

      2. avatar N says:

        They did have rules about it he got fired because of what he had on his gun long before the court case was concluded.
        https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/philip-brailsford-update-mesa-officer-facing-murder-charge-fired

    3. avatar Mastro says:

      The directions they gave the exterminator we’re strange. Crawl?

      At best the department’s training sux.

      1. avatar AZgunner says:

        The commands issued were bizarre and far outside of what almost any department teaches.

  10. avatar Ralph says:

    Dear Abby

    I have all my guns engraved with a picture of Elmer Fudd and the caption: “Be vewy qwiet. I’m hunting wabbits.”

    Could that get me in trouble?

    Signed,

    Mystified in Massachusetts

    1. avatar Swarf says:

      Now you’re just splitting hares.

      1. avatar Just Sayin says:

        Ba-dee ba-dee ba-dee ba-dee
        Ahhh, Thats’ all folks!!

    2. avatar The Rookie says:

      I think only if you use it during duck season.

  11. avatar Huntmaster says:

    A proper trigger job on a gun makes the gun more accurate. Not hard to make the case this indicates the owner was very concerned about the eventual resting place of any projectiles leaving the firearm and spent the time and money to ensure they would stop where he wanted them to. Of course a prosecutor is going to try to make something of the trigger job especially if his case is weak.

    1. avatar Wedge259 says:

      I know some people have used that example as something to use in your defence, but then Ive heard others say they can turn it on you. For example “Oh you didnt trust yourself to be able to shoot accurately with it as it was, so why would you take the risk if you didn’t believe in your ability?”

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        “Oh, you didn’t trust yourself to be able to control your car with the seat in its original position, so why would you take the risk if you didn’t believe in your ability?”
        That is so easy to counter, no prosecutor would ever use it.

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      To prove it, you need to call an expert, which costs money. No trigger job, no need for an expert. In other words, you’ve eliminated the issue before you had to use your firearm.

      1. avatar Cole says:

        If that argument could be made than we could only buy one manufacturer of gun for self defense that has the worst trigger. Why did carry a glock instead of a highpoint? When people make this argument about the trigger jobs being bad need to ask themselves what is the standard trigger than. Is there a measurable amount of creep and grit a trigger must have before you can carry it? Why would you even want that? What is the difference between a glock with a trigger job and a HK VP9?

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          It isn’t grittiness or creep that is the issue, it is lightening the trigger. The prosecutor will argue that you had a “hair trigger” on the “murder weapon,” and that it was that trigger and your hair trigger temper that got the “victim” killed. These are the terms that will be used–the guy you killed in self defense is now the victim and you are the perpetrator, the criminal, the killer. Although this scenario is highly unlikely in the event of a home invasion, it is the type of thing that will be offered in a shooting in the street where the defense has the burden of proving justification.

  12. avatar Jean-Claude says:

    Define “blingy”. By the classic definition, I would consider a “blingy” firearm to be one that is shiny—chrome, polished stainless, or gold plated. Custom grips would also qualify, as would fancy grip screws.

    I don’t think any of those imply malicious intent.

    I don’t even think a “Gucci Glock” implies malice. Slide cuts, NiTi barrel, stippling—-just appearance changes.

    But Punisher skulls, “Smile Wait for Flash” engraved on the muzzle crown, III% logos, Spartan helmets—-looking for trouble.

    And I’m still waiting to see what happens the first time somebody uses the breakdown AR pistol they’re lugging around in a backpack in a defensive situation. I know a couple of guys who have DOLOS and Law Tactical equipped 7.5″ AR pistols with them all the time. I can’t imagine THAT is going to look good in a defensive shooting.

    1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      “…….And I’m still waiting to see what happens the first time somebody uses the breakdown AR pistol they’re lugging around in a backpack in a defensive situation…..”

      Is interesting question…if the GHB gun comes out, depending on what it is, the jury might go full snowflake if you don’t have a good lawyer for yourself.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        A breakdown AR pistol in a back pack? Short of an all out hollywood scenario I can’t picture any self defense situation on the street where you’d have time to get the weapon out and put together in time to actually use before the tweaker with the sharp screw driver guts you.

        1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          It’s already out of the GHB and possibly underneath jacket, rain gear, ect.

          The question is what would a prosecutor do with a DGU trial and a AR type pistol or a carbine like a Sub2000 used? A truck gun if you will.

        2. avatar Jean-Claude says:

          Mass shooter. Customer in the back of a convenience store when a robbery occurs. Customer in a bank during the same. Terror attack.

          Someone in their vehicle surrounded by a mob ala Ferguson.

          I can think of plenty of situations where someone would have the time to prepare and deploy an AR pistol in a backpack.

          It doesn’t take long at all to install the DOLOS barrel and unfold the SIG brace.

  13. avatar How_Terrible says:

    Lack of uniformity happens a lot in smaller police organizations. It is hard for small 3 – 10 man departments to find, and retain, decent people so they tend to be a bit more flexible on what sort of weapons they carry. For example most cops in my area carry Glocks, but a few still carry older S&W autos and my county sheriff still totes around the S&W revolver he has had since he first joined the department in the early 80’s.

  14. avatar MGD says:

    I know a criminal defense attorney who will second this. He said that your personal defense gun should look as innocent as possible so you don’t trigger a jury full of snowflakes. (Sic.)

  15. avatar Erik Weisz says:

    Why care about what non-POGs think when gun owners police each other to the point of oppression? I have enough actual legal rules to follow without bothering with all this super-judgemental peer-pressure from my own side of the fence about what you all feel are socially acceptable accoutrements and which comic-book character is okay to put on my gun or whatever. When and if someone ever gets successfully prosecuted for such a thing, all these completely unqualified petty opinions about what other people’s guns look like still won’t matter to anyone. Now go back to yelling “get off my lawn” (which you wouldn’t have to do if you had some humorous signs regarding the fate of trespassers).

    1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

      Massad Ayoob is one of those people with “unqualified petty opinions” about such guns. Specifically it was pink guns in the 2015 (maybe 16) CLE.

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        And Massad Ayoob has also pretty much always been on the “only ones” bandwagon, that cops are somehow better and more qualified to carry and be “keepers of the knowledge” simply because they are cops. His writings have regularly evinced his opinion that guns should be the purview only of cops and those the cops specifically approve of. It reminds me of frat brothers or the good ‘ol boy network.

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          Huh, I’ve never read anything like that from him, and I know that on many occasions he has acted as a defense expert without fee.

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      You are looking at the wrong people. It is not you, it is not us, it is the jury who will be judging you that are the only people that matter. As this attorney stated, trials are popularity contests, and this is quite true. An attorney can have the best case in the world but still lose if his/her client is an asshole. Same goes for attorneys, but to a lesser degree. A bad lawyer who antagonizes the jury is not likely to win either. And if Gary Spencer says so–it happened to him as a young attorney–then I know it is true.

  16. avatar Mack Bolan says:

    My dust cover says “Save America” on the outside, “Shoot a Baby Boomer” on the inside.

  17. avatar Stereodude says:

    I don’t get you guys… Daniel Shaver should not have been shot. Philip Brailsford should have been convicted regardless of the inscription on the gun. The instructions Shaver was commanded to obey were completely ridiculous. Watch the bodycam video and get on the floor and try to do them yourself without ever moving your hands to steady yourself or catch yourself. The whole situation is a serious miscarriage of justice. Not because of some overzealous DA, but because of a trigger happy cop and a commanding officer who’s a complete DB barking nonsense “orders” to shaver.

    Philip Brailsford is not an innocent victim being railroaded by a DA over the inscription on his gun. This sort of complete tone-deaf nonsense take on the situation isn’t going to bring people to the side of POTG.

    With that said, a lot of people are stupid. Many of those stupid people find their way onto juries. A trial is basically competing theater between the prosecution and the defense. Facts don’t rule the day. Some trivial cosmetic feature could sway the feelings of some jurors. I have no doubt you’d fare better with many juries shooting someone in self defense with an older wood stock hunting rifle than a brand new shiny AR-15 even though it should make no difference.

    1. avatar FedUp says:

      The more I think about it, the more I believe that Brailsford murdered Shaver because he thought his supervisor wanted him to murder Shaver.

      “You move one inch in the wrong direction and we’ll murder you and go home happy about it”
      “Please don’t kill me, I don’t wanna die”
      “Blam”
      “What’d you shoot him for?”
      “You said we’d shoot him as soon as we had a fraction of an excuse, so I took the first opportunity.”
      “I didn’t want to kill him, I was just seeing if I could make him piss himself”
      “Oh. We better come up with a good story, and fast.”

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      I am not a ccop, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express one time….Any competent cop, in my unqualified opinion, would have gone up to both people while they were proned out and cuffed them. Why they had to make these people crawl was and is a complete mystery to me.

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        Because there was an open door to an uncleared room right there.

  18. avatar Geoff PR says:

    In all seriousness, it depends on jurisdiction where the incident took place.

    Self-defence in New York city, with New York City prosecutorial attitudes, potential problem.

    Me, in Polk county, Florida, where my sheriff is Grady (Because they ran out of bullets) Judd? Likely no problem at all.

    What is your local DA’s attitude on guns will likely predict if you will have a problem or not.

    That being said, you may want to think twice about the wisdom of pushing your luck…

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      In Marin county, California (across the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco, another place they do not issue CCWs), a retired 78 year old doctor was followed home by a road rager. The doctor pulled into his garage and tried to shut the door, but the rager drove into the garage to keep that from happening. The doctor retrieved a .357 magnum. Despite the presence of a firearm, the rager advanced on the doctor, and the doctor shot and killed him in the garage. The Marin county prosecuted, and after getting a hung jury (11-1 for acquittal), retried the case, because GUNZ! And civilians should not have GUNZ! Fortunately, the second trial resulted in an acquittal. But the prosecutor still “won,” costing the doctor a small fortune in fees. (I always wondered if he got re-elected, as the community was pretty pissed at his conduct, which was, in my view, unconscionable and unethical. But the fact that it happened is fair warning that it could happen to you.

      1. avatar Missouri_Mule says:

        With all due respect why does my jurisdiction depend on whether i can be executed by a cop? I thought “DUE PROCESS” the law in all 50 states, districts, and territories. Oh well…

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          Neither of the comments to which your reply is posted have anything to do with cops shooting people, by rather “civilian” SD shootings, and how prosecutorial decisions are affected by political considerations.

        2. avatar Big Bill says:

          Due process?
          Our legislators have little use for due process.
          Remember the liberals in congress wanting the “do not fly” list used as a “do not buy” list? Their idea of due process is close to, “We are the law because we make the law! Due process be damned!”
          As for the police; far too many believe due process is whatever they think it is.
          Due process, far too often, requires a good lawyer.

    2. avatar Stereodude says:

      Your local DA’s attitude on guns may be a sizeable factor, but if the ethnicity of the shooter and victim fit the right narrative that will all be out the window as the media rides the story to ratings, facts be damned.

  19. avatar Old Region Fan says:

    Your evidence ? Talk to a trial lawyer or better, an honest prosecutor ! And you can bluff your way with your spooky signs all ya want but it can be inferred that a sign like that is posted by a person who kinda, maybe, sort of wanted a fight !

  20. avatar TXGunGal says:

    What no “Widow Maker” on the barrel?

    1. avatar TexPat says:

      If you are on trial for shooting your GF’s husband, probably not a good choice.

      1. avatar TXGunGal says:

        Not to worry, I was just being sarcastic! Come from a family with dry sense of humor. BTW: Pink handguns for women is just silly, wouldn’t ever buy one!

  21. avatar TexPat says:

    It is outstanding advice. If you are on trial for your life, you want every advantage you can get.

    Imho – keeping your firearms looking normal is no different than dressing nice in court.

    1. avatar Erik Weisz says:

      Living your life as if you’re perpetually on trial for it doesn’t seem like a lot of fun to me. That’s the equivalent of a hypochondriac choosing to live like bubble-boy and seems little different than the outright hoplophobia we all seem to agree is completely ridiculous.

      1. avatar TexPat says:

        In everything I do, I try to give myself an edge over the other guy. While I have a heavily customized 10/22 that I use for fun, my defensive firearms were chosen to save my life. No more…No less.

        In the unlikely event I have to use my weapons, I want to win the fight and go home to my family. “Fun” modifications that increase my exposure aren’t going to happen.

        1. avatar NateInPA says:

          ^This^
          I don’t see what the problem is with this lawyer giving his advice on how to handle one’s self in a DGU.

          I still “have fun”, but I don’t advertise that I’m a badass, gun totin’, operator. I have my fun guns, I have my competition guns and then I have my carry and home defense guns. They are three different fields, so I BELIEVE they should have three different tools.

          Whether we like it or not, the world we live in is one based on public opinion and political correctness. And the way you are perceived may be the difference between a justifiable or unjustifiable homicide. If being Joe TactiCool is worth the risk to you cuz ‘Merica, then good luck, my being free from a felony conviction is of more importance to me.

        2. avatar Erik Weisz says:

          You might have a point if such a thing had EVER resulted in said “felony conviction”, but it hasn’t. This lawyer’s so-called “advice” resides completely in fantasy-land, as do your justifications for deriding other people’s choices about their own carry gun. Absolutely none of what you or he says is based on either fact or precedent, only opinion that can only be referred to as totally unqualified. But you be you, dude, you sound like a hoot at parties.

  22. avatar Demo says:

    Yeah, I’m sure the fud in the video was “asked for his two cents” 🙄

    That’s as far as I got watching.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      You can lead a horse to water….

  23. avatar strych9 says:

    Modifying your gun with Punisher or “I wish a motherfucker would” or any of this other dumb shit is about as smart as talking down the street wearing a “It’s 4:20 somewhere” shirt that features a picture of a person toking a joint.

    Within your rights but asking for trouble and therefore dumb.

  24. avatar Kyle says:

    ya ya ya, smoking is a bad idea. Too much steak is a bad idea. Driving without a seat belt is a bad idea.

    MANY THINGS are a bad idea. I’ve not customized my gun to that degree, but were I to choose to, I would not hesitate.

    The infinitesimally small change of it being a factor in your defense will be so vastly outweighed by so many other factors, that is hardly worth mentioning.

    makes good click-bait though.

    1. avatar Erik Weisz says:

      ^^^ SO MUCH THIS ^^^^

    2. avatar Big Bill says:

      Maybe, maybe not. It really does depend on the circumstances.
      If the dead guy is found inside your home armed with a knife, it probably won’t matter.
      If the dead guy is found beside his car, while both cars have minor damage, and you claim he road raged on you, and there are no witnesses, it matters.

      1. avatar Erik Weisz says:

        Can you name one single time when it has ever actually mattered?

  25. avatar former water walker says:

    The only mod I’ve done is a Handall Jr. and a recoil absorbing stock. I don’t do the slogan thing,drop-in trigger or anything else. Just tools…

  26. avatar Ranger Rick says:

    To each his own, it’s their firearm and their ife to live.

  27. avatar GS650G says:

    A shoot is either clean or not. Tricked up guns won’t make much of a difference.

    1. avatar Big Bill says:

      “A shoot is either clean or not.”
      Oh, I wish life were really that clear.
      While a defensive use inside your home is usually that clear, not all defensive shootings are anywhere near that clear.

  28. avatar Mark N. says:

    Once upon a time, prosecutors were arguing (falsely, but that’s how they roll) that Black Talon HPs were “designed to penetrate body armor worn by cops,” that they were “cop killer bullets” that only a person intent on murder would carry. They used to try to do the same with plain HPs, as bullets that were designed to increase injury and therefore the probability of death. They only stopped doing it when their arguments were impeached by the fact that every cop in town and the balliff in the courtroom had HPs too. Prosecutors have a difficult burden of proof, and thus they will take any angle, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem, to portray the shooter in a bad (“evil”) light. You can count on it. The point of the video is that even though such ploys are defensible, it is much easier on you and your attorney if there isn’t even an argument to be made.

  29. avatar Nanashi says:

    My defensive AR has a custom dust cover so I can ID the upper without the lower. On it is the nickname/title of a stereotypical American character from a foreign children’s franchise written in said foreign language (which I can read). The idea of a prosecutor using that against me seems weird.

    1. avatar Stereodude says:

      A prosecutor will use the cereal you eat for breakfast against you if they think it advances their case against you in the mind of the jury.

  30. avatar Muhammad says:

    Oh, but whatsoever will all the rednecks do with their Kafer or Infidel taxticool gear

    1. avatar Erik Weisz says:

      Anything they want. Because they’re free Americans and it’s highly doubtful they follow teachings plagiarized from Zoroastrianism by a lying, thieving, murderous, slave-trading pedophile. You know, since you asked and all.

  31. avatar ironicatbest says:

    I had a pistol took from me by the cops, the magazine had ” eat this” on it, I got it back after the charges were proved false. The cop who gave it back commented on the ” eat this” he wasn’t impressed. JB weld fixed it.

  32. avatar Arandom Dude says:

    Some cosmetic changes are perfectly innocent, but things like “smile and wait for flash” or painting the muzzle orange could easily land you in prison. Punisher skulls aren’t as bad, and shouldn’t swing the case, but remember what a jury sometimes is: twelve people too stupid to get out of jury duty.

  33. avatar MLee says:

    You know, I really wish you guys would leave us poor Zombies alone. I’m telling you first hand, it’s not all fun and games and not as easy peasy as it looks. It’s actually quite hard and we aren’t just out there for you Gomers to shoot at like we are wild boar. Being a Zombie is a rough!
    I’m telling you this first hand as an actual Zombie! And yes that really is me and my poor head getting shot for your entertainment. So have a heart, OK?
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3-l1P1kK4sZTB0aGh4Ml9sTEU

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      I was flipping through the pay-per-view movies tonight, and I saw just the one for you. The premise of “Zburbs” was that wifey finds out her hubby has become a zombie and craves human flesh. In order to keep her marriage together, she brings him bad people for him to consume. You’d love it.

  34. avatar Mandew says:

    This is the same as having three cars, one white, one black and one bright red going down the highway at the same speed, witch one do you think the cop is going to pull over first?
    Wrong it’s the Mexican!

    1. avatar Bug says:

      Which one? 🤔

      1. avatar Mandew says:

        Caught that after I reread it.

  35. avatar Ricky cutie says:

    I have a Spikes tactical lower with punisher logo on it. Does that mean I shouldn’t use it for self defense? Don’t like spiders so I bought the one with the skull on it. Its not the only AR I have but its my favorite as well as my best rifle

    1. avatar Erik Weisz says:

      As long as you don’t shoot Spiderman, I wouldn’t worry about it. It has never ever mattered at all so far.

  36. avatar zebra dun says:

    Shaver was murdered by that cop, plain and simple. We will hear more from that lunatic in the future, hopefully it will be justice finally served. That cop will kill again.

  37. avatar Roymond says:

    The only such modification I’ve ever had made to my carry gun was at the recommendation of an instructor who said the pull was too heavy for me.

    I’ve never made a modification to any gun because I thought it would look cool.

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