On 2015, Kate Steinle was shot and killed by illegal immigrant (a.k.a. undocumented American) Jose Ines Garcia Zarate. A national outcry ensued. Mr. Zarate is currently on trial for Ms Steinle’s murder. Yesterday, his lawyers argued that her death was the result of a negligent discharge, rather than premeditated murder. And not without reason. foxnews.com:
A veteran police inspector and shooting instructor testified Monday at a San Francisco murder trial at the center of an immigration debate that accidental gun discharges start with the shooter’s finger on the trigger.
John Evans, who helped lead the investigation of Kate Steinle’s 2015 shooting death, said handguns don’t fire by themselves. Evans, who retired from the San Francisco police department last year, sparred with the lawyer representing Jose Ines Garcia Zarate, who is charged with murder for Steinle’s death. Garcia Zarate’s attorney, Matt Gonzalez, argues that the gun his client was handling while sitting on a San Francisco pier accidentally fired, striking Steinle in the back.
Gonzalez pointed out that between 2005 and 2011, San Francisco Police Department officers reported 29 accidental discharges of service weapons similar to the weapon used to kill Steinle. Evans countered that in most accidental discharge cases, the gun was handled improperly and fired with a finger on the trigger.
The key bit of evidence here — other than the fact the U.S. authorities had Mr. Zarate deported five times and he was living sheltering in a so-called”sanctuary city”:
Former Officer John Evans said Monday he and other investigators working on the case found a “strike mark” on the pier’s concrete surface four days after the shooting of Kate Steinle by a Mexican national who had been deported five times.
He said authorities found the bullet was partially flattened, indicating it had ricocheted.
The officer testified that the bullet travelled 100 feet from the point-of-impact on the pavement before it hit Ms Steinle. He asserted that Mr. Zarate had been aiming at Ms. Steinle when he pulled the trigger. Officer Evans said Mr Zarate’s .40 bullet initially missed Mr. Steinle — hitting the pavement — because Mr. Zarate pushed the muzzle downwards as he shot the gun.
The gun used in the homicide was a .40-caliber GLOCK stolen from a U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM) ranger’s car in downtown San Francisco. Given the recoil generated by the gun, and Mr. Zarate’s presumed inexperience with firearms, do we believe this explanation? Or is it more plausible that it was a unintentional/negligent discharge that just happened to kill?
To coin a phrase “at this point what difference does it make?”. The woman is dead and someone was holding a gun. The gun didn’t do it.
It makes a huge difference whether a homicide was accidental or intentional. There’s a reason there are different degrees of murder/homicide based on intent and premeditation.
Actually, there’s not a huge difference between “gross negligence”- firing a gun in the direction of people, and specific intent- aiming at one victim in particular. In both cases there is a component of luck that takes over- aiming and hitting versus just shooting and hitting, that makes intent fairly irrelevant.
By that standard, you can argue Paddock had no specific intent — he couldn’t have been aiming at a specific person with a bump-fire stock at that distance.
Paddock and Zarate both had guns in their hand during the commission of lethal crimes. I don’t care if Zarate didn’t “intend” to kill Steinle. There aren’t mitigating circumstances such as Zarate defending himself or stopping a threat to another person that would have caused him to have a good reason to have a gun in his hand. Why was he brandishing that gun, if not to commit a crime?
He was here illegally, that is a crime. She died in the commission of a crime. Felony murder. Period. Fry his ass.
The many guns in my safe pose no more threat than if that safe was full of cash. Probably less.
Calling a criminal alien an “undocumented American” gives cover and excuses those that have violently attacked our nation’s sovereignty by their mere illegal presence. Those that champion and assist their infiltration, ONLY do so as a means to usurp our Constitutional Republic.
And all immigrants should be pissed as hell when we call illegal aliens “immigrants”.
Yet many lawful immigrants, like Mrs John E Bush, love to stand up in public and equate themselves to illegal aliens. I just don’t understand it.
I have an original, not a Colt, but rather a Remington Rand which is original to the WW2 Era when everybody and their mama were making them, and when asked, “why do you carry that cannon on your hip?”, my answer is always, “because it is just silly to have to shoot someone twice!”.
So a US citizen is shot and killed with a stolen gun by an illigal immigrant who had already been deported 5 times in a sanctuary city?
Sounds like the state of california should be brought up on charges as an accomplice in her death.
Riding adventure motorcycles and observed trials motorcycles. Spending time with the kid. Dogs. Wife. Not necessarily in that order. 😐
I really hate news sometimes. First off, the type of gun has changed multiple times. Some places I read it was a Sig P239. Others I read it was a Sig P226. And still here on TTAG, I read it’s a Glock .40 cal (TTAG, if it’s not a Glock, please change your story). Well, I guess the only consistent theme is that the bullet that killed Steinle is a .40 cal bullet.
Then we get to the perp. Today his name is Jose Ines Garcia Zarate. Last year he was known as Juan Francisco Lopez-Sanchez. Well, WTF is his real name?!
Stranger still, and I can’t verify this anymore, but I remember initially that he fired the gun multiple times — which would DEFINITELY rule out “accident”, and quite possibly even negligence, and thus make this an intentional use of the gun. But in recent news reports, it seems like it is just one shot.
Lastly, I see the distance between the perp and Steinle has changed since last year. Whereas it was reported initially that he was just several yards away, now we get reports that it was about one hundred feet away, or 33 yards. While I don’t buy the a ricochet + 100 feet theory, I also don’t like the changing story line.
Oh, and Eff San Francisco. If I were Steinle’s dad, I’d sue the hell out of the city for this debacle.
There is an easy formula for the correct amount of guns to own.. N+1 where N = the amount of guns currently owned. Also expressed as D-1 where D = the amount of guns that it would take before your partner asks for a divorce.
As long as it’s an obvious toy… no problem. Would I let kids run around with replica airsoft guns on Halloween? No. That would be pants on head retarded.
I do find the ban on edged weapons silly. I don’t think anybody in their right mind would consider a kid with a plastic sword decked out as Gawain to be an actual threat.
If my children wanted to carry toy replica firearms, I would instruct them as follows:
(1) Do NOT point that toy gun at anyone, EVER. Period. Full stop.
(2) If anyone approaches you with a firearm pointed at you, DROP YOUR TOY FIREARM IMMEDIATELY without any sudden movements.
(3) If you hear someone near you yelling, “Drop the gun!”, drop your toy gun IMMEDIATELY and DO NOT TURN TOWARD THE PERSON who is yelling until several seconds have passed. Drop the toy gun first and foremost, then turn toward the person after 10+ seconds.
Good luck, if they remember all that.
I really like top break revolvers, so it’s nice to see a modern one in any caliber.
And kids, whatever you do, don’t go trick or treating at Kevin Spacey’s house.
Since my now-grown kids were daughters who wanted to be princesses and stuff like that, I wouldn’t have to consider or worry whether to let them carry toy guns. However, in today’s political climate and with quick-on-the-trigger cops, I’d probably think twice about it. I wouldn’t want to send out a little “commando” with a toy M16 and get back a corpse. Considering how politically correct today’s schools are getting, I’m not surprised at the “no weapons” meme. When I was a kid (50’s), I borrowed my Dad’s WWII Japanese police sabre and went out as a pirate – took it to school for show-and-tell, too. Couldn’t do that nowadays. And I agree, any parent that permits the children to go out these days without an escort is not thinking with their brain.
I grew up with an extremely anti-gun mother and a father that kinda liked guns but wouldn’t press the issue with her. I wasn’t even allowed to have a damn squirt gun. Nevertheless I would buy myself a cap gun or something every once in a while, until my mom found out and would confiscate it.
Any kind of prop that could be mistaken for a real gun from 50 feet away is probably a very bad idea. I don’t have any kids so I don’t really have any skin in this game and I’m about…… 80% sure I’m not going to be randomly blasting any neighborhood kids who are toting weapon props tonight.
I drive race cars, and I also enjoy maintaining and modifying my street cars.
Basically the same thing I do with guns, just with extra zeros after the price.
They might not have been there–But every illegal alien empowering loving Lib clown in the whole state and nation from Odumbutt down killed this lady!
” How Many Guns Are Too Many? ”
How Many Friends Are Too Many?
How Much Money Is Too Much?
How Many People Lie To Pollsters?
** Sighs ** ………..
Those drones are actually pretty darn cool. I took time out to watch drone training and drone wars at DreamHack last week.
$20 gets you a pretty sweet drone. $100 gets you a camera and a bunch of extra batteries.
I don’t see the EDC use and I wouldn’t carry one but they are darn cool. When the big ones battle each other it’s pretty intense.
Also, the fact that people do buy them drives a massive industry. One of the larger designs is made from some heat resistant polymer and it’s now being used by fire departments to search buildings for trapped people and by other agencies to find lost hikers and other missing people. It’s pretty cool stuff.
“$20 gets you a pretty sweet drone. $100 gets you a camera and a bunch of extra batteries.”
*That* drone costs about one-third as much as that gun…
EDIT – Breaking, truck terror attack in NYC
“Six people killed after gunman driving Home Depot truck rips through Lower Manhattan bike lane”
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/gunman-opens-fire-home-depot-truck-runs-4-bike-riders-article-1.3602094
That’s like asking how much money is too much money. Really?
Or how many kids are too many kids.
Or any other personal question.
Buy me a dinner and/or a drink first. LOL
Having spent 1,1/2 hours trying to get my fingerprints to register at a county jail, I wouldn’t trust any fingerprint reading device, cuts, oil, calluses, finger misalignment, too many variables when I want that gun and I need it now. Hells bells in a panic, GDamn, situation it’s hard enough to grab the damned gun
I’m sorry it just isn’t worth it when I can carry an lcp or .38 snubbie. Especially if you are going to double the price.
I’m a little surprised they used a 1:8 twist; I’d thought 1:7 was now fairly standard for supporting the heavier range of ar ammo.
I haven’t shot one of their piston models, but I am rather fond of their “Modern Musket” DI ARs.
Nice looking wheelguns, but that 1911 is just hot. I love a compact 1911 and 9mm just makes it better. The 357 mag would be cool for a smith to squeeze into a 1911. Maybe that is in the pipe?
Does NOT matter if he killed Kate on purpose or not, Calif. just will call him a poor illegal, MUST feel sorry for him & let him back out on the streets .
Situationally dependent, but if you can’t immediately identify the threat why make yourself more of a target, and if you can why wait?
“That forced detectives to watch more video”
Oh those poor guys. Forced to do their damn jobs.
I’m guessing it would depend.
A single obvious threat (armed robbery, car jacking) – draw and engage.
Not so obvious (shots fired, people screaming and running) – it would depend.
Get to cover, draw, and look for threats. Maybe not in that order.
Having your gun holstered would slow down your reaction time. I guess it true that someone might mistake you for the shooter but I’m guessing they would be looking for the person shooting at people and walking around.
My question to the open carriers – would you hide your open-carried weapon if you weren’t drawing?
Round butt…not really. They just knocked the sharp edge off a little. Smith does make an E Series commander size 45 with a true round butt.
We know that the great majority of DGUs end with no shots fired, because thugs generally run or surrender upon realizing that their intended victim is armed. This would seem to discredit JWT’s suggestion.
Perhaps the best thing to do is to yell an order or warning while drawing/aiming. If the assailant has an epiphany, don’t shoot. Real life situations are fluid, so acting like there is only one feasible action is pretty stupid imo.
I never carried a 1911 until Springfield came out with the EMP4C. Made me rethink my whole CC fu. Now I want a S&W E Series round butt in 45. I’m over the whole caliber wars thing. The best caliber is the one you can shoot well and have on you when you need it.
The answer is of course that you should be in a constant state of reassessing.
How long does it take to draw and move to low ready or high ready state? That’s another second or so that the bad guy has you in hiss OODA loop instead of the other way around.
If he is right on top of you then you will obviously want to draw and shoot in one motion. If he’s close enough to be a threat but you don’t have an immediate shot you want to draw and use whatever cover or concealment is available.
Anyone who thinks it’s either/or is reducing things ad absurdum.
Where are the pictures with it on somebody?
The new mⲟdel comes with 18 mm Ꮪpot size.
Are ERPOs the greatest threat to Americans’ gun rights?
No. That would be the politicians who enacted those laws, and by extension the people who voted them in in the first place.
Because in this cartoon picture, you apparently can’t have both.
Public Buses – Felony under Missouri law (See 578.305.4 RSMo)
MetroLink Trains – Misdemeanor under Missouri law (See 70.441.1.(2) and 70.441.3.(11) RSMo)
NoGo Zone in Missouri !!
Local governments are allowed to regulate open carry and the discharge of firearms (except in self defense); however, ccw permit holders are exempt from ordinances banning open carr
And missouri is not an constitunal carry state !