Even as Dan and I were recording our first podcast, recounting the mystery that has become the Mandalay Bay hotel shooting, the Las Vegas Sheriff’s department revised the crime’s timeline. Again. chicagotribune.com:
Las Vegas police said Friday that the gunman who opened fire on a country-music festival far below his hotel suite did not shoot a security guard six minutes before that rampage, contradicting a timeline that they had offered earlier this week.
For those of you keeping score, the Clarke County Sheriff’s department has now provided no less than three different accounts of this crime.
In the immediate aftermath of the shooting, Sheriff Lombardo told the public that Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos (above) interrupted spree killer Stephen Paddock’s attack, drawing his fire and inspiring the killer to kill himself, ending the slaughter.
Sheriff Lombardo hailed Mr. Campos as a hero. And then, earlier this week, Lombardo revised the timeline. He said that Mr. Paddock had shot Mr. Campos six minutes before opening fire on a crowd of 22,000 country music fans below his 32nd floor hotel room.
https://youtu.be/MNJXPQFm3vU
When that bombshell hit, including the revelation that the Mandalay Bay hotel didn’t call 911 during those six minutes, MGM went public with a third timeline.
The owners of the Mandalay Bay claimed that just forty seconds elapsed between Mr. Campos’ injury and Mr. Paddock’s assault on the crowd below.
Sheriff Lombardo is now telling the world that MGM got it right, and his investigators got it wrong. Twice.
On Friday, Lombardo said that he stood by providing the 9:59 p.m. time, which he said “wasn’t inaccurate when I provided it,” but said that he was told that the time had been written by someone in a security log.
Upon investigation, he said, police learned that Campos first encountered a barricaded door on the 32nd floor at 9:59 p.m., and that he was fired upon by Paddock “in close proximity to” 10:05 p.m., when police say the mass shooting began.
“He attempted to relay that information via his radio and it was confirmed because he also relayed that information via his cellphone,” Lombardo said. “So the timeline associated to both of those sources have been verified.”
Conspiracy theorists note: it’s entirely possible that Sheriff Lombardo and his officers are stupid and lazy and poorly trained and media hungry enough to rely on the hotel’s written log to establish a timeline. And a cell phone call log is solid evidence.
That said, is it a coincidence that this new timeline — which eliminates the six-minute gap during which the Mandalay Bay hotel failed to contact the police — could save MGM billions of dollars in legal liability?
“There is no conspiracy between the FBI, between LVMPD and the MGM,” Lombardo said at [Friday’s] news briefing, during which he partially read from prepared statements and took no questions.
“Nobody is attempting to hide anything in reference to this investigation. The dynamics and the size of this investigation requires us to go through voluminous amounts of information in order to draw an accurate picture.”
Speaking of pictures, an “expert” speaking to the latimes.com reports “that one place the casino’s cameras don’t have eyes is the network of hallways inside the Mandalay Bay hotel.” Wait. What?
Hallways can be difficult for security cameras to capture — they might be too long or too dark to show what’s actually happening — so hotels instead put cameras on bottlenecks like elevator banks.
Does that look like a “dark hallway” to you? Is there such a thing as a dimly lit area that a modern security camera can’t adequately record? The Times says their pet expert “declined to be identified because of concerns of future litigation.”
If you suspect that Las Vegas law enforcement is helping the hotel avoid future financial catastrophe by covering up the hotel’s reaction (or lack thereof) to the shooting, add these two facts:
– Sheriff Lombardo won’t say whether or not the Mandalay Bay hotel called 911 to report Mr. Campos’ shooting, and if so, when.
– Mr. Campos, the security guard, disappeared on Friday, immediately before a scheduled interview. His whereabouts remain unknown.
And yes, there are other important unknowns [via the chicagotribune.com] . . .
MGM also said that police officers “were together with armed Mandalay Bay security officers in the building when Campos first reported that shots were fired over the radio. These Metro officers and armed Mandalay Bay security officers immediately responded to the 32nd floor.”
However, MGM’s statement raised further questions, including what time the company thought Campos was shot, whether it thought the mass shooting still began at 10:05 p.m. and why, if police and security “immediately” headed to the 32nd floor, officers did not arrive there until 10:17 p.m.
A spokeswoman for the company did not respond to a request for comment on these questions.
The Sheriff’s Department said those on-site police officers — whose reason for being in the hotel remains undisclosed — responded the wrong floor (31st), delaying their arrival on the 32nd floor. As of this writing, there’s has been no official revision of that “fact.”
This is also the first mention of armed Mandalay Bay security responding to the shooting. Who, how many, where did they go and what did they do when they got there?
https://youtu.be/JxmEFeKy8aI
We’ll continue to follow this “fluid” story — without descending into the full-blown grassy knoll conspiracy theories filling the information gap created by the credibility-compromised Las Vegas police.
Meanwhile, one thing’s for sure: we don’t know the truth about the sequence of events that led to the death of 59 people and the injury of 545, 45 of whom are still in hospital, some in critical condition.
I still say someone high up in the Democratic world set this shit up, and it’s likely that our “shooter” was a scapegoat that never pulled a trigger, and was sacrificed before shooting even began, there’s my conspiracy theory for you, dems pull this shit to tighten gun laws. scary, but is a possibility considering no one can get their story straight.
Why couldn’t that have been Paddack’s motive all on his own? Why does it have to be a conspiracy?
And there’s more. Not all 22,000 people at the concert were country music fans. Many preferred rock and roll but attended the concert as a social event with friends.
I heard from an authoritative voice, in my head, that he came back in time to set up a series of events that will get Trump impeached in 2018 instead of losing in 2020.
There are 4 other events that will be happening over the coming weeks that will confirm this, according to the voice. He’s never been wrong before, other voices sure, but not that one.
Agreed. We know Paddock worked with the FBI before, flying a Cirrus SR20 (reg no. N5343M) owned by Volant LLC, a known FBI shell corp. The conspiracy nuts are always out in force when a mass murder goes down, but this time they’re absolutely right. This was planned for years with the sole intention of getting semiautomatic rifles banned. There was supposed to be a more anti-gun federal government installed, but a number of Democrat election fraud attempts failed (including the presidency).
Now, it’s possible Paddock really was the shooter, that he either went rogue or defected and executed the plan when he wasn’t supposed to. But there’s no question that the FBI is engaging in a coverup. The fact that they confiscated and destroyed video evidence from eyewitnesses is proof of thay. The LVMP and Lombardo are just saying exactly what the FBI tells them to, and the FBI is having a hard time keeeping their story straight.
What sense does an operation like this make if the admin in DC was not democrat? With a Dem majority in the house and senate?
Nothing will come of this in the way of gun control. As a conspiracy theory it falls apart.
You must not be paying attention…..
They have the NRA tripping over themselves coming off as Chamberlain’s pissing off many members.
You have Republicans introducing anti-gun bills.
Two pro gun bills about to pass got the axe.
You have sunshine patriots and fairweather gun owners revealing themselves as the Fudds and closet anti’s they really are completely dividing the gun community.
You have more anti-gun drivel than normal coming from the usual suspects.
I would say they didn’t need a Dem majority to get the results they wanted.
Possibility. Check out the Sandy Hook drill.
That book would be called “Patriots”… I can’t believe no one has read it.
It’s a football stadium in the book. First page of the book…
Not “Patriots”. You’re thinking of “Enemies, Foreign and Domestic”, by Matthew Bracken (former SEAL). It starts off with a mass shooter targeting the upper deck of a NFL football stadium, from an adjacent high rise building. A bunch of people shot, more trampled in the ensuing panic. ATF and the FBI assist in covering up the use of a patsy shooter. Swift bipartisan action to ban all semi automatic rifles.
Well I try not to assume an even with a conspiracy theory when straight incompetence will do. But at this point it’s getting hard to decide if we do actually have an example of someone trying to hide something. Because at this point either someone is really bad at their job, or someone’s trying to hid another shooter.
You guys hit the nail on the head in your podcast when you pointed out that everyone involved has a reason not to tell the truth. It appears that in attempting to expose how easy it is for an average American to commit mass murder with guns, what Paddock has instead revealed is the extent people will go to in order to protect what means the most to them.
Ultimately it doesn’t matter because enough people won’t care or just believe whatever they’re told. For example, Building 7 was a controlled demolition, anyone can see it but it doesn’t matter because the “authorities” will issue findings and get court experts to testify that their version is reality.
It also doesn’t matter because the end result is the same: unrelenting calls for 1: Growth of government. 2: Infringement of your rights and freedoms. 3: You get to pay more $ for #1 and #2. So, it’s up to us to “stand and fight” no matter what the truth is.
“After 7 hours of uncontrolled fires, a steel girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to one of the 81 columns supporting the building. Floor 13 collapsed, beginning a cascade of floor failures to Floor 5. Column 79, no longer supported by a girder, buckled, triggering a rapid succession of structural failures that moved from east to west. All 23 central columns, followed by the exterior columns, failed in what’s known as a “progressive collapse”–that is, local damage that spreads from one structural element to another, eventually resulting in the collapse of the entire structure.”
So your telling me Vegas is a company town? No way! Inconceivable! *sarc*
The so called hero security guard was supposed to give some interviews, but he has disappeared. I still call bullshtein on one shot in the leg after a barrage of two hundred rounds, but I digress.
200 rounds my a$$.
Even if Paddock was using 100-round Surefire mags he would have had to do at least one mag change to fire 200 rounds at Campos. Really? Firing blind through a door and walls and wasting all that time and ammo to no effect?
He supposedly had cameras set up in the hallway to see approaching security and perhaps that was what alerted him to Campos, but it should also have told him that he missed him 199 times!
Heard that too…
Then I heard, and haven’t seen elsewhere that he was identified as an accomplice/shooter…
Too much misinformation/bad information floating out there feeding conspiracies and confusing everyone…. Mischief done… facts obfusicated.
Occam’s razor = incompetence with the sheriffs office.
The dude saying there were two shooters? He’s hearing the sonic boom of incoming rounds that are all over the place. The psycho was spraying a huge area.
I think the most likely explanation of “shots from a second shooter” are simply echos of the the attacker’s gunfire reflecting off adjacent buildings.
In one particular instance which I heard on a recording, I am 95% confident that I heard a particular shot string and its echo roughly 4 seconds later. The shot string had a particular cadence and number of shots that seem to match perfectly (as far as I can ascertain without actually going through full-blown forensic audio analysis) with a quieter shot string that followed about four seconds later. The fact that the second shot string was quieter, was delayed roughly four seconds, and matched the cadence and number of shots of the shot string preceding it is quite compelling in my mind that the second shot string was an echo.
He is measuring the lag time between high frequency supersonic crack of the bullet and the low frequency muzzle blast. Even if you measure this off echo sounds (e.g., delayed and repeated from the original), the lag time will be the same. The echo delay of different frequencies is essentially the same (in micro seconds, not milliseconds). The lag time is a valid indication of distance of the shooter to the target. Of course, if the investigation is honest (I am not claiming otherwise), if there was another shooter and his location was significantly away from the first (angle), the impacted bullets on the ground will show that. There are plenty of missed and impacted somewhere in the area bullets to make that analysis.
Ah, I had not watched his video when I posted my comment. My comment addresses very early claims (before any forensic acoustic analysis) based on how loud and/or direction of sound that there was more than one shooter.
As another person commented, we can also explain the shorter lag time with just one shooter if the shooter used a second firearm/platform with slower muzzle velocity, such as 7.62 x 39mm. That should be fairly easy to confirm or eliminate, though, because there should be 7.62 x 39mm brass in his hotel room and doctors should have removed .30 caliber bullets from some of the patients.
Furthermore, even if police say that they found 7.62 x 39mm brass in the attacker’s hotel room (and assuming that 7.62 x 39mm cartridges coincide with the measured lag time), if the 7.62 x 39mm rifle was not full-auto, and the 5.56 x 45mm rifles were not full auto, and the audio recordings indicate both types of fire occurred at the same time, that would also prove that there was at least a second shooter since one person cannot operate two rifles with bump-fire stocks (at bump-fire rates of fire) simultaneously.
And where would this high quality sound source come from? Oh, cell phone microphone audio, because that is excellent, from a compressed streaming video no less. That’s like the perfect sample to…make shit up about.
Embedding this video was dumb, and now that we all watched it we’ve become a little dumber’er.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnn-GvRPh-w&t=3m58s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBZMh19_Dws&t=2m0s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbOFwWquAw&t=1m42s
For some reason, I can only reply to my earlier comment, not to the comments following. So, to address the claim of multiple calibers (e.g., different bullet speeds), that is irrelevant since the delay measured in the video is between the supersonic “crack” of the bullet and the low frequency muzzle blast from the rifle. These sounds are for each individual event – firing of one bullet from one gun. The probability that another gun’s sounds are perfectly interlaced into the 5.56 sequence is astronomically small. Since he clearly shows in the video a sequence of several shots, with amplitudes and delay times being the same for all the shots in the sequence, I think that the claim that those shots came from the same gun is unquestionable. Point being, even if there was a second shooter and even if he or anyone else used a different caliber, the presented shot sequence is clearly from the same gun and demonstrates the distance of the shooter from the target. I am not making any claims regarding other shooters; only supporting his calculations and scientifically sound. As to the quality of the sound recording on cell phones – for this purpose, it is sufficient. Both the muzzle blast and the supersonic “crack” are within the cell phone’s capability. The fidelity of the recorded sound is not important since he is using it for only one measurement – time delay between low and high frequencies, which allows him to compute the distance. This is a valid measurement.
Rick, if you don’t understand something, perhaps it’s best to keep quiet rather than alerting everyone else to that fact.
You don’t need high quality 24bit/96kHz audio for this. He’s measuring the time between two events in the audio track. Even very low quality digital recordings don’t mess up timing. Please note, his conclusions are not necessarily correct. They are only one possible explanation, but you’re way off base claiming that the quality of the recordings preclude the analysis he’s doing.
Alexander is also wrong. The time the bullet takes to arrive at the impact vs. the speed of sound is the key foundation of the distance calculation. The caliber/weight/bullet shape and muzzle velocity determine flight time. Therefore the cartridge absolutely matters. Not all cartridges will have the same flight time.
The problem with this is high/low frequency recordings on a cell phone and would be recorded and distorted, and the distortion increases as the reflection surface is nearer or farther, the angle, etc. One shooter, two windows, multiple hard reflective surfaces and varying ranges and very low quality audio, from a nearfield microphone that is constantly shifting direction, streamed from youtube, all of that drastically changes the recorded audio. If you had the actual recording, directly from the device, and the device, and could recreate the conditions, then, maybe any analysis would be more than SWAG, but this…SWAG.
So, actual data, actual science,says pffflluuuggg. From the video you can only deduce noises happened, they sound like gunshots from a distance in a large concrete canyon.
“…are simply echos of the the attacker’s gunfire reflecting off adjacent buildings.”
In the RF world, that’s a concept known as ‘multipath’, and it’s quite a real thing…
The mutlipath is very easy to determine with software. No one here is trying to reproduce the high fidelity sounds, nor is that necessary. If we look at the spectrum vs time, the two parts of the rifle shot are easily identified by their frequencies. The fact that there are repetitive shots makes the analysis easier. The frequency signature of 5.56 is known, as are signatures of all calibers. There is no chance of confusing it with other calibers (if proper analysis is done). For the purpose of measuring the delay between “crack” and muzzle blast, the cell phone fidelity is more than sufficient and the multipath is easily filtered out by software. Again, this comment is not intended to support or disprove any theories as what happened; only an engineering statement that the presented measurement technique is valid.
And that video shows proper analytics of audio? no, it really doesn’t.
As the other person said, you could test it all out in theory, if you had the original device and original source recording. I’m sure there are companies/agencies that could do all the processing required to do real science on it, but some yahoo (I watched some of his other videos and boy, yahoo is generous) on the internet with a conspiracy blog missing basic logic, not so much.
But even a blind squirrel is right twice a day, what that’s not it, even a broken clock finds an acorn, I give up.
There are bound to be echoes of some sort from sonic events this loud, but look at the adjacent Strip: the next building north is the Luxor, pyramid shaped. Sound hitting that building would bounce straight up into the sky. The closest structures that present flat surfaces for echoes are the Excalibur and the Tropicana nearly 1/4 mile away. Other than that the area is mostly flat or very low structures due to the proximity of the airport.
What about the rate of fire difference… Vid on YouTube compares m240 to Vegas raw videos… Then shows a bump fire video… The bump fire ar15 fires far faster than what you hear in Vegas.
No, there are lots of vertical hard surfaces, just the display boards and signs are massive, and the Mandalay Bay’s two wings shape itself would throw out reflections. Plus, are you saying that the Luxor having a slope would cause it to not reflect sound? That’s not how sound waves work, or any energetic wave function.
Did the Luxor tear down it’s other building?
I admit I haven’t been to Vegas for a few years, but really?
That building is about as flat as they come.
The Sheriff being the good Democrat probably is covering for for the black ops of the Democratic Party!
Seem,s funny that when ever the Democratic party faces in house woes and is losing Black, Illegal Immigrant and terrorist Muslim support, along come’s a mass shooting, this is orchestrated and choreographed to get peoples minds off of the Democrat party as the Anti-American party who then prove it by advocating gun control. Sorros and Bloomberg are the one’s supporting these mass shootings, {who totally own the democratic party} weakening already weak minded Anti freedom American resolve on our Freedoms.
the Shooter was so hi on Valium he couldn’t shoot, thanks to radical Muslims who then capped a bunch of people, and made it look like a suicide, then shot their help the bell boy and calmly returned too their lower rooms
Umm, spell check.
Umm, fact check, Lombardo is a Republican
Logic check: If the Democrats wanted to distract people from thinking that they are the “anti-American party”, why the hell would they set up a false flag so they could push to repeal one of the most fundamental, unique features of the Constitution? Hard to spin that as anything other than “anti-American”. Not to mention, polls and elections have consistently shown that gun control is a losing issue for Democrats anywhere but the bluest big cities.
If that was their plan, whoever came up with it is an idiot.
I hate to play devil’s advocate, but the logical side in me wont quit. In the very well-articulated and thorough video embedded here on the acoustic analysis, there’s one giant variable being overlooked that *could* explain only one shooter from one location: if that shooter was switching rifles of differing calibers.
Ex: One rifle is .223Rem/5.56mm and the other is 7.62x39mm. The .223 has a velocity of about 550-700fps faster than that of the 7.62×39 (2,950-3,100fps vs 2,250-2,400fps). Thus, the “2nd shooter” could just be the rifle with a slower muzzle-velocity (i.e. not as far above the speed of sound), thus having a smaller lag-time.
Granted, I’ve not seen or heard ANY evidence that anything other than .223/5.56mm was used, from the pictures of the hotel room I’ve only seen .223-sized brass casings. But there’s a variable that should be considered.
It still could mean there was a 2nd shooter, but if that 2nd shooter was using a 7.62x39mm chambered rifle, for example, it would mean he was even closer than the 250-275yards of the video, say maybe 150-175 yards away.
Until the FBI gives the public more information, they’re not going to be able to figure this out. Something of this scale will require them to crowd-source parts of the investigation. We need to know facts like what rifles were used, what calibers they were, what was their barrel length, what brand of ammo/bullet weight was used: from these facts we can calculate *proper* ballistic data.
FBI: There are thousands of people outside of any official capacity who want to get to the bottom of this, there’s no shame in getting more eyes/ears on this if it gets to the truth more quickly. Suffice it to say there are some very smart people not currently working for the FBI and you could benefit from their altruism and assistance in this matter.
Just saying.
Never underestimate the power of weaponized autism. The hard part will be getting /pol/ to care.
I’m pretty sure you have that backward. Slower rounds would mean the shooter is further away, not closer (for a given lag time). The second shooter that TheHealthRanger puts at ~250 yards isn’t necessarily a second shooter at that distance. It could also be slower rounds from the same location. Like a different cartridge with less muzzle velocity, or even 223/5.56 fired from gun(s) with an oversize chamber / shorter barrel.
Since we don’t have a complete list of all the guns found in the room and their calibers / cartridges it’s a little early to plant the flag on the 2nd shooter theory.
That said, the apparent lack of competence shown so far in this investigation and in the information provided to the public & media is baffling.
“Something of this scale will require them to crowd-source parts of the investigation.”
And TTaG commenter Some Average Guy wins the Intertubez for the day!
While an excellent idea for drilling down on the data and finding places to focus, it will never happen.
The FBI isn’t going to let that information out into the public domain for a number of reasons.
His video presentation shows sounds of repetitive shots spaced parts of a second from each other (bump fire). He certainly was not switching rifles every quarter of a second.
It is not possible that the left would be involved in any nefarious activities. They have demonstrated how upright and honorable they are many times over the years.
I cannot imagine any official would provide cover for such an operation. There is not enough money to obtain the cooperation of the Sheriff, the FBI, the Media in such a coverup…..but there is ideology.
What is the truth? We will never know.
The anti-gun crowd is charging ahead, the RINOs are capitulating, the NRA is waffling.
Where will this all end? Civil War?
Be Prepared.
“it’s entirely possible that Sheriff Lombardo and his officers are stupid and lazy and poorly trained and media hungry”
I’ve spent a lot of time in Las Vegas and I’ve come to regard it as my second home, so I know through experience that LV cops are all that and trigger-happy to boot. A more incompetent bunch of morons in uniform cannot be found anywhere on Earth. Which is saying a lot considering the quality of most police forces.
Conspiracy? Those cops couldn’t conspire to steal a tray of donuts. Cover-up? Certainly, but they are most likely trying to cover up their own obvious shortcomings.
LVPD isn’t only incompetent.
They also ignore NV pre-emption and state law on CCW and possession of guns.
When I lived in NV, we used to treat all of Clark County as if:
1. It was part of SoCal,
2. It was run by the mob (it is, but by Harry Reid’s Mormon Mafia, not the Italian or Jewish gangsters of the past),
3. The biggest variable in how you were treated in Vegas was how much money you had.
All true. Thanks to open carry activists like Tim Farrell, Las Vegas is owning up to the fact that it isn’t above Nevada law.
https://lasvegassun.com/news/2010/apr/07/nevadans-are-free-don-their-arms-open/
FYI, I’ve open carried on The Strip without incident or a single raised eyebrow. The cops have been trained to avoid interference, and the muggles don’t even notice.
BTW, the phrase “The Las Vegas Strip,” was coined by Guy McAfee, a gangster who was also a former LA cop.
Have you been to New Mexico?
New Mexico having what to do with Nas Vegas (other than Las Vegas, NM that is)?
I think New Mexico police are some of the worse in the US. I don’t know if they are worse than LAPD, but they seem to be trying.
Which NM police specifically? I lived there for years and never had a problem with police.
SFCSD, yeah they were trash back in ’02 but they fired everyone and cleaned that up around ’05.
would not be surprised in the least if the sheriff was covering the hotels assets. the hotels and casinos bring in millions, if not billions a year in taxes and other revenue. the 22000 concert goers are just a drop in the bucket compared to that, and can thus be sacrificed on the alter of political expediency / real politic without any loss at all. when the security officer shows up dead or pulls a Hoffa i wont be surprised in the least
The Mandalay Bay workers appear to be forced into silence.
http://yournewswire.com/las-vegas-eyewitness-dead/
She was a concert attendee, not a Mandalay Bay worker. She was an entirely inexperienced observer suffering a massive adrenaline dump and running for her life amid thousands of other panicked people. The article gives exactly ZERO information as to how she died.
Sorry, not buying the conspiracy to shut her up by sending someone to California to kill her.
Read the entire article and the links within.
In a group of 22k people, having one drop dead a week later proves…nothing. It’s a post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy with a bit of an Ignoratio elenchi fallacy built right in there.
She had a crap ton of medical issues….
“Kymberley had epilepsy and she’s always been prone to seizures — she told her friend that she recently had three focal seizures,” Her grandmother told the Daily Press. “I believe the stress from the shooting took her life.”
Suchomel, who was taking medication for a pituitary tumor, shared her fear of trying to fall sleep at night as the “sounds of gunfire” become louder in her head and the images of “broken and bloody bodies” flashed through her mind.
Hah, someone’s in college, and cracked a new chapter. Been there, it’s true, you’re right, but I had to look them up after 25 years.
“Does that look like a “dark hallway” to you? Is there such a thing as a dimly lit area that a modern security camera can’t adequately record?”
I installed a quality video surveillance system at our church about four weeks ago. It is surprising how hard it is to get good video at some locations. And when I say “good video”, I mean video that produces high quality images of someone’s face which would enable facial recognition software to match a subject’s face to a database. Remember, so-called “good lighting” is awful if the light source is behind the subject facing a dark hallway.
I agree that the still photo of the hallway looks very well illuminated. Other locations? Who knows. I am pretty confident that those hotels only installed cameras at elevators and stairways because that is the most practical and cost effective way to get a record of WHO WAS IN THEIR HOTEL. In other words the hotels’ goal is to record who was there, not necessarily what they did.
Small high resolution sensors struggle tremendously in low light.
You can get them to perform in low light, if you spend the money for cameras with large apertures and lenses, and more sensitive CCD imaging chips.
The cameras like that tend to *not* be innocuous and tend to ‘stick out’ rather prominently, traits that many find objectionable…
Staying in hotels for a hundred nights a year, for 25 years, and having been in lots of Vegas hotels, lived there for 10 years too, the entrance, cash, and casino floor cameras are quite good, upgraded regularly, and monitored intently. The residential floors are upgraded when something fails, or the storage tech relegates them to obsolete. That tower is the original tower from 18 years ago, so maybe one or two refreshes, to the cheapest option available. The use case for those cameras is totally different.
I worked at SRD in Vegas until IBM bought us, and none of the feeds that we dealt with ever came from those. Casinos were significantly ahead of the acronym agencies throughout the 2000’s in things like facial rec, social (not social media) intelligence, and general anti crime/cheating technology. So much so that quite a lot of the tech suppliers were gobbled up for data intelligence contractors for insane values, then charged the feds 5x what casinos were charged, and made up for it in volume…wait, what? GWoT was such a boon those companies its ridiculous.
TL:DR Cameras in the hotel areas are crap and lightly monitored. Slightly more than useful/less.
You may be correct. The only place the casinos care “what they did” is in the gambling pit and there they spend whatever they need to get the absolute best video of every player and every dealer.
I’m gonna question that.
Theft from rooms isn’t rare at all. (One of the little secrets destination resorts don’t want to tell you.)
Most are inside jobs, and knowing who went in which room when is important for keeping a lid on the thefts.
I heard the reason they don’t have cameras in the hallways is to stop lawsuits and blackmail. Say a football player goes to a hotel with a woman who isn’t his wife and that gets caught on camera.
At least I got my time line based off video evidence, radio transmissions and crime scene photos. I think it’s much more accurate than the government’s story. To find out what happened before 10:04PM is going to require interviews and hotel camera footage, which they don’t want to give and the government is controlling the flow of that information (if not, completely manipulating it).
I have seen evidence that one airport fuel tank was struck by two bullets. Both impacts appear to be tracer rounds. One impact is at the top of the tank (it doesn’t appear to have made it through), the second impact (that appears to have pierced the tank) is closer to the middle.
So, he did have everything but a suppressor.
To suggest that hotels do not have cameras int he hall “to avoid lawsuits and blackmail” is utterly ridiculous. The hotel is not responsible for who takes whom to what room; it therefore is not liable for what goes on when they get behind closed doors. Surveillance video has in fact been used in both civil and criminal prosecutions against bad actors.
I have seen absolutely no evidence that those bullet strikes came from the MB.
Have you? Las Vegas is like any other city: Lots of gunfire. Trying to put any individual strikes with any individual firing event takes a lot more than simply finding them one after the other. The strikes on the tank could have been from any time, from any firing events.
Tracers? On only the two bullets that struck the tank? Seriously? And how do you see evidence of the bullets being tracers without either the bullets in hand or traces of marking paint on the strike points? Neither have been reported. There have been no reliable reports of tracers either being seen, or in the suite.
It’s been said he tried to get tracers at one gun show but failed at the time. He may have used an AR-15 (or AR-10) with a 20 round mag (as seen in the crime scene pics) that he originally planned to use through a murder hole he was drilling in the suite to have a line of fire at the tanks. Old tracer rounds don’t alway light up. True, there hasn’t been (as far as I am aware) evidence shown to the public yet of any tracers flying through the air. We did hear the note has numbers on it that may indicate bullet drop for something like the fuel tanks.
If I remember correctly, there are regular checks done to the tanks.
Why would he go out of his way to find tracers at guns shows? Why would he risk making a bunch of noise to drill a murder hole in the suite? Why would he need to calculate bullet drop for a 350m target? Why have scoped rifles with 20 round mags and bi-pods if you are going to use bump fire stock ARs with 100 round Surefire mags for over a thousand rounds?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNpPUv4TxhQ&t=2m37s
I lean towards thinking this is a species of incompetence and possibly an attempt to cover up a far too cozy relationship.
In my experience cops tend to be pretty poorly trained and often don’t even know traffic laws.
If you ask them pretty simple stuff like about the legality of mounting a tag on a vehicle in certain ways, they’ll usually say some thing like “Is it legal? I dunno. I wouldn’t pull you over for it but someone else might. Will they give you a ticket? Sure, if they want to be a dick…” which is a long way of saying that they don’t know.
It’s disturbing to see the conspiracy nuts out in full force at TTAG, esp. the the nutter comment on Building 7
The problem with conspiracy theories is that they operate on the assumption that the Gov is completely competent and can carry out these “Ops” perfectly, in complete secrecy. And no one ever (despite verified secrets/classified info being regularly leaked) can provide one iota of actual evidence of these items being carried out
Don’t know anyone who is claiming the government plots and cover -ups are perfect, by any means. There is so much hard evidence and good science involved in the research that the truth is obvious to all but the most hardened statists and government apologists. And most of it has little or nothing to do with “conspiracies.” The fact that few or none of them can even agree on the lies they tell would disabuse anyone of thinking they were capable of real conspiracy.
But some people are “Fostered,” and some are black bagged and vanish. They represent some real risk to the “official story” and must be removed… I do wonder if ANYONE will ever see Mr. Campos again…
While I tend to agree with you I can see how these theories pop up and remain.
The government has done some seriously sketchy shit in the past. MKULTRAs habit of grabbing random citizens off the street and even dosing government officials against their will comes to mind.
I think we are getting a preview of the plot for the next Oceans movie
Interesting article….
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-04/16-unanswered-questions-about-las-vegas-shooting-mainstream-media-doesnt-want-talk-a
No, it’s really not.
Most of the questions suffer from a lack of creativity, are easily explained, or are totally irrelevant.
1) Supposedly the paper had ballistic calculations on it
2) We don’t know, but so far, no.
3) People mistook a strobe light for muzzle flashes. There were no other broken windows.
4) No it’s not.
5) Most likely carried them up in suitcases
6) Advanced weapons? Really?!? Nearly anyone can shoot an AR. And, how do we know he didn’t have any training/practive?
7) No idea, but if there was, how do we know it’s connected?
8) Because SWAT followed their rules since he wasn’t shooting anymore
9) Because his GF was there?
11) Reportedly on Valium
12) Because they’re desperate, or maybe he really was doing it for ISIS (like a 0.001% chance).
13) Who says he snapped suddenly? All signs point to it being a carefully planned deliberate attack, not one of a sudden snapping.
14) Did he move frequently? If so, what’s the relevance?
15) No idea.
16) We don’t know.
This whole episode stinks like a 60year old whore on the strip. Pathetic incompetence on an epic scale. Especially watching the sheriff break into TEARS because anyone questioned their veracity…😫
Stop and think about all the video and audio the authorities r having to go thru second by second, it’s going to take time and there will be corrections and updates. If it was a true conspiracy, they wouldn’t be updating or correcting anything!! Also, the guy in the ballistics video, Mike Adams, look up some info on him. He’s a man of many theories on everything, and an expert on none!!!
You watched the video too, so you lost a half an IQ point, you watched some other stuff from this guy, a couple more. I can’t count that high since I watched a bunch too.
When you lie and get caught, you make up another lie. Then your lies get out of control and expose you. You have to control the information that gets out and stop any possibility someone can expose the truth. If it was a major conspiracy people will start to disappear or strangely die.
Right now it looks like no one wants to take responsibility and the government wants to use this event to remove human rights. It doesn’t have to be a government conspiracy for them to use it for their own gain.
If it was a government conspiracy the Alex Jones crowd would be blaming Trump. Oh, wait. Alex Jones doesn’t talk bad about Trump because he sold out. If it was Trump’s fault, Alex Jones will cover it up by blaming Antifa, ISIS, arms dealing, prescription drugs, multiple deep state assassins, etc.
Well Jesus Campos the security guard disappeared so……
And Trump is just a figurehead, not a mastermind.
Trump can easily put out the truth to the public.
Despite the Police Department’s identifications of the three tramps as being Doyle, Gedney and Abrams and the evidence connecting them to the incident is being disregarded to focus on the single shooter scenario…
Having lived in Nevada for many years, I think the OP has it wrong. It is Mandalay bay that is covering up for the LVMPD. Millions of dollars pour into the coffers of the LVMPD. Some of it legit some of it questionable. The ties between the casinos and the LVMPD are legendary. Neither side can afford any legal discrepancies. Someone F___ed up in the LVMPD. The casino is just doing their “duty”.
22,000 people in that crowd, a couple of them must of had cell phones, no? Did any of them dial 911? If so, it had to be logged in the 911 system, or what used to be called a police department’s Daily Activity Log. Have any of the news organizations covering this thought to ask to actually see/hear if any 911 calls exist other than the aforementioned Mandalay Bay 911 call? And not just blindly accept the shit that’s being put out at police press conferences.
Lots of questions, lots of theories, but the question I’m most interested in is why was a woman going through the crowd 45 minutes before the shooting began telling people they were going to die? Coincidence? Possibly, but if not, consider the implications.
Ever walked down/up the Strip? There are all kinds of weirdos out there, saying all kinds of things.
Let’s not attach too much importance to some weirdo saying we’re all going to die tonight; that’s said so many times it’s ridiculous. The probability of someone saying it before a bunch of people die is pretty good. It means nothing.
Do you seriously think do one looked into it? Not just LE people, but news media as well?
I’ll grant you there’s probably many people like that in the area, but do you think that kind of person and her boyfriend would cough up the change to get into a concert venue like that just so they could act weird?
As for people not looking into things around this case, given the way the narrative has changed several times, it makes me wonder.
Who says that the Mandalay Bay has “billions of dollars” in legal liability? Certainly not, me, and I’ve been a civil litigator for thirty years. In fact, I agree with an article on MSN news (not sure where they copied it from): establishing liability against the hotel is an up hill battle that is unlikely to succeed. First of all, absent specific prior instances, a business owes no duty to protect against the criminal misconduct of third persons. Second, one of the most important factor in establishing liability is establishing that the incident was “foreseeable,” and that therefore the property owner might have had a duty to protect against its occurrence. Just ask your self: was an attack by a “lone wolf” high rolling gambler who had probably stayed at that hotel numerous times “foreseeable”? Heck, his family and girlfriend are all telling us that they were clueless that he was intending to do what he (apparently) did. Has anything like this happened before? No. Without foreseeability, the hotel simply owes no duty to protect even its own guests, much less people at a location almost a quarter mile away.
This case should finish any competent adult’s trust in law enforcement.
This is rapidly becoming malfeasance on an epic scale.
Perhaps Jesus is looking for his red Swingline stapler…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHHZBmF8mk4
Check out the book, “Enemies, Foreign and Domestic”, by Matthew Bracken (former SEAL). It starts off with a mass shooter targeting the upper deck of a NFL football stadium, from an adjacent high rise building. A bunch of people shot, more trampled in the ensuing panic. ATF and the FBI assist in covering up the use of a patsy shooter. Swift bipartisan action to ban all semi automatic rifles. I just finished reading it three weeks before this Las Vegas event took place. VERY similar circumstances.
Said it before, will say it again. From the sound of the gun fire, it definitely sounded like more than one shooter, and from the cabbie video of that evening, it sounded as though one shooter was right on top of the Mandalay’s portico cover.
The crime scene shoots looked staged, if the guy was going cyclic the rifle cases would’ve melted into all but wool carpeting. Rifle on it’s side looked ‘placed’ but who would place it on its side if it had its bi-pod extended. Whole bunch of crap.
Totally planned, ABSOLUTELY DONE TO FORWARD AN AGENDA. TOTALLY PAIRED WITH SIMILAR INSTANCES OF EVIL POS (D) SHOOTINGS – Like Trump’s campaigner – http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/14/former-trump-campaigner-and-rubio-intern-shot-13-times-while-sleeping.html
Ban the evil POS (D). THEY ARE THE FING PROBLEM ON PURPOSE AND THE PROBLEM ON PURPOSE DOESN’T EVEN GET TO SUGGEST THE SOLUTIONS.
I distincly remember the day after the shooting seeing an article where an Australian tourist who was in a room on the 32 floor, returning home after the shooting, said that police had shot a hotel security guard by mistake.
So much for the follow up. Sheriff and sister are grandchildren of mob boss that controlled Vegas.
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