Read part one here.
By PA Deacon
“But they’re weapons of war!”
Many conversations on civilian firearms seem to begin or end with an emphatic yet uninformed statement for more gun-control. How do you respond to these claims by the poorly informed or malicious?
Don’t get emotional. Logic, constitutional law, modern history, and data can debunk these sorts of claims. Radical anti-gun groups base their claims on wrong information and mislead the uninformed with emotional triggers. For instance: the AR-15 is a weapon of war and, thus, should be banned for civilians.
Instead, respond with demands for clarity. What is an AR-15? Why do you think its only purpose is war? What makes it different from other firearms? The Anti-Defense League should be forced to define their terms before we are asked to apologize for our rights.
Defend All the Rights
My views on the Second Amendment were anchored in my support for constitutionally protected rights that preexisted our government. I wasn’t an avid shooter, hunter, or owner of an impressive firearms collection. So why did I care?
There are plenty of things I defend, but don’t practice day-to-day. I am not a journalist or public figure, but the First Amendment is crucial to our republic. I’ve never been arrested, but the Sixth Amendment right to a fair public trial by jury is vital to prevent unwarranted and biased prosecutions by government. The Second Amendment is no different. I didn’t yet own a firearm, but I defended the Second Amendment.
This brings us back to the claim that the purchase of ‘weapons of war’ should be prohibited by the average American civilian. Dismantling the Anti-Defense League requires an understanding of the laws governing firearms and a general knowledge of the mechanics of firearms to educate the misinformed – or at least quiet the fanatics.
What I should have known years ago is that most Americans can’t even afford a full-auto rifle. But I didn’t. I should have known about the Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA) which banned the civilian ownership of new machine guns. But I didn’t. I should have known all the steps that an American needs to go through in order to purchase a firearm. Again, I didn’t. I should have known there is no gun show loophole. An FFL needs to run a background regardless of where the purchase is made. As you can guess, I didn’t.
There are many questions that I need to be able to answer:
• What does “high capacity” magazine mean?
• Can felons own guns?
• Should an abusive spouse be able to purchase a firearm?
• What about the mentally ill?
• What are the basic calibers and what are they used for?
• Does AR stand for Automatic Rifle?
Few conversations on firearms ever get beyond these basic questions. Being able to answer them will prepare you tremendously as an advocate or owner.
Without having answers to these questions, it was easy for discussions to become heated and, ultimately, go nowhere. When facts are in short supply, emotion fills the gap. The “common sense” gun control narrative wins when emotions stand in for facts and confidence.
The Uphill Climb
The real spark for me to get informed was that it seemed like anyone with a voice was arguing for more (gun) control over my life. If I was going to take this seriously, I had to educate myself.
I didn’t know where to start. Friends recommended a few sources – magazines and blogs. But I always thought that most of those outlets assumed the reader had too much knowledge. Without a basic understanding of the different calibers and types of firearms available, reading about handguns, long-guns, or calibers didn’t make much sense.
So, I stepped back and started with the mainstream press. That wouldn’t teach me about bolt-carrier groups or caliber comparisons, but it was an entry point.
It worked. I started asking important questions about firearms laws and the firearms themselves. Thanks to a friend and a link to a video about the National Firearms Act, I was about to go down a YouTube rabbit hole.
The correct answer to the “weapon of war” argument is “that’s right, what else would you expect a citizen to show up to militia service with? A weapon of peace?”
You’re a cancer to our cause.
You seem to be ignorant of the second amendment. It protects military arms in the hands of citizens and any legislation that infringes upon a mans right to keep and bear arms is null and void.
Not at all. I get the Constitution, Bill of Right gets and the individual liberties this country was founded on. The Federalist papers spells out the people should have access to the same arms as the military. Pserge is statist stooge.
I’ll guess that Pg2 loves the Swamp “state”.
What, because he can read the Constitution’s Bill of Rights? It’s pretty clear.
Ask him about other individual rights. He’ll parrot lefty-statist talking points.
Pg2… Your first comment to pwrserge is a waste. Its not funny. Its not enlightening. It doesn’t contribite to any conversation. Stop doing it please. Its getting very annoying to have to sift through your pointless harassing comments in every conversation involving pwerserge. None of us completely agree with each other, but for you to start this thread with “youre a cancer to our cause,” is petty and reeks of insecurity. Grow up and contribute something (anything) or stop posting please.
Someone’s buthurt that their paranoid conspiracy theories get debunked on a regular basis…
Lol serge, the way you ran from the last thread tells who Is butt hurt. Watching you flee after getting called out is always good fun.
I said I was done with you if you didn’t cite a source. You failed to cite a source. I have better ways to spend my time than to argue with scientifically illiterate morons.
Lol, right, you ran from the last thread when I called you out, watching you run from his one will be just as fun.
Depending on the cancer, there’s a vaccine for that now…
Hi, my name is pg2 and I think that “Big Pharma LLC” is run by people that make the Umbrella Corporation sound like visionary geniuses. Because why should we bother lobbying “Big Government” (TM) to make it easier for them to make boner and happy pills which everybody buys by the truckload and cost virtually nothing to make when they could lobby “Big Government” (TM) to “force” people to take a vaccine that is absurdly expensive to make, requires re-formulating every year, and kills our customer base? Oh, and the best part, the profit margin on vaccines is tightly controlled by our tools in “Big Government” (TM) so that we make pennies on the dollar.
If he thinks that this is how corporate America functions, I’ve got some stock options in Weyland Yutani to sell him for a low introductory price.
Pserge, you put down your statist Pom poms long enough to make that post? Impressive.
Hey Pg2… I’ve got some stock options to sell you… this company is run just like that “Big Pharma LLC” money printing company you always rant and rave about… It’s called OCP… you might have heard of it.
Is he wrong? Do you expect that the citizenry stick to only pretty lever actions and pump guns as to not offend anyone?
Which cause that might be? Anti vaccination cause?
Serge is right. Arms most usable to well regulated militia for securing free state are not different from military weapons.
2A does protect machine guns.
Dear Lord! ….. Somebody please delete eveything in pwrserge’s comment after his first remark, starting with pg2’s, “Youre a cancer to our cause,” comment. This petty teenage girl fight is ridiculous, humorless, pointless, and uninformative.
Welcome to internet.
I personally find Ducking and Running’s post hilarious, considering Pg’s constant anti vaxxer propaganda.
Some people refuse to see the truth and facts. Even when staring them right in the eye.
Or they just have faith that there opinion is correct…and no amount of arguing/data/facts/etc will convince them.
“When facts are in short supply, emotion fills the gap. The “common sense” gun control narrative wins when emotions stand in for facts and confidence.” – in other words, bigotry and prejudice.
But simply responding with “you’re a bigot” won’t win any hearts. They need to see for themselves that they are wrong and understand why. Thus is why I stick this on as many related news stories in as many news sites as I can comment on.
If we can all agree that: 1. Self defense against any unlawful attack is a basic human right. 2. That as a basic human right, self defense is and should always be considered a Civil Right of the People and thus the exercise of that right must be immune from restriction, infringement, licensing or taxation by Government at any level. 3. That the Civil Rights of the People are not subject to the approval of the Majority Opinion and belong to every Individual regardless of their social status. 4. That any infringement, restriction, licensing requirements or taxation levied on the free exercise of a Civil Right is a violation of that right. 5. That any law, policy or rule that prohibits or discourages the free exercise of any Civil Right is an infringement on that right. 6. That if a law, policy or rule that prohibits or discourages a Citizen from legally acquiring the tools, weapons or means to freely exercise their Civil Rights, then their rights have been infringed. -Then it follows that those who advocate for the preservation of the right of the People to keep and bear arms are, in fact, Civil Rights advocates. It also follows that those who oppose the right of the People to keep and bear arms are against the People’s civil rights. We have a word for people who advocate for or try to use the force of law to infringe on the civil rights of others: we call them Bigots. ￼🤠
Very well said…hope you don’t mind if I copied your comment. I plan on typing out your “bullet” points, laminating them and keeping them in my wallet. Good, concise outline to base future “discussions” on.
Unfortunately, we’re getting many Leftys relocating to Montana (they say that they are running away from the $#itholes they came from…only to start agitating for us to change into what they left). A number of anti-2A trolls have been randomly appearing at local gun stores to make inane comments…thanks to you, I have a better planned response than the ones I’ve been using.
You must be in either the Flathead Valley or Missoula. Out here in Valley County we’re getting the Montanans that can no longer stand the influx of left coasters. Those determined to turn their new home into the same shithole they just left.
“Beam me up Scotty. There’s no intelligent life here.” – James Trafficant, back in the day
Mr. Montana, All I can say to you….Is if I was able to move out of this Eastern Block Socialist Utopian Police-State *(Sanctuary State/MS13 Haven.)* to The “Free-States ” of Montana to enjoy my 2nd Amendment Rights…I would relish them!!! And Assist the fine folks of Montana in keeping them free! Unlike in this *SH!THol§…Where it considered a “Police issued Privilege–only if approved….”
Awesome…but as I said…and I believe you reiterated…some people are NOT going to ever change their minds…regardless of facts and circumstances…even when they look like hypocrites
I totally agree with your approach…hit them with logic and reason…back it up with correct facts and figures…
REASONABLE people will keep open minds…do some research…make up their own minds
some people are NOT reasonable
keep up the good fight
Personally, I’m waiting for TTAG to post their multipart series on how to convince a jihadist that you’re not an infidel. I’m pretty sure I have better odds of succeeding at that than convincing a die hard lefty they’re wrong.
You are, unfortunately, probably right. The antis are emotionally invested in their beliefs, and they cry when people (and tasty animals) are murdered by guns. They are absolutely convinced that murder and suicide rates would fall precipitously if they, could only get the guns. Because of this, the true facts are easily dismissed as propaganda from the NRA. Their beliefs are impervious to logic.
I wouldn’t be too sure it never happens. It’s rare, sure, but I know it does because it happened to me. If you’d asked me a decade ago what I thought of gun rights I would have told you there were no such thing and all guns should have all been banned. I went to a biathlon event about eight years ago, and that was my first time even seeing a rifle. Every person there was knowledgeable, safety-oriented, and accepting of me even though I clearly wasn’t like them. Basically, I found out I was comfortable around POTG, and they weren’t at all the bloodthirsty monsters every person told me they were as I was growing up. At the end of the day I started considering what it would be like to own a rifle myself, and what that would take. That lead me to youtube, where I encountered well thought out arguments that truly resonated with me, and the rest is history. Maybe it takes a certain type of person to change, but I’m not as inclined to think everyone there are lost causes.
Self defense against any attack is a basic right (and inherent nature) of all animals.
“Weapons of war have no place on our streets”
Then why does the U.S. Gov keep putting them there? NYC draft rights, Kent State, Tuscaloosa, Katrina, etc. And that’s not the cops w/ mrads, AR’s, Glocks, etc. Not to mention the CMP (which I do not mind BTW). Or putting weapons of war on the streets of another country. Weapons of war will have a place in civilian hands until the Messiah returns and the US.gov arsenal is beaten into blowshares . . . along w/ the weapons of every other country. Being pro-weapon is simply a matter of knowing human history.
From the very beginning of our republic, the people have owned arms substantively equivalent to the service rifle of a typical light infantry soldier. Only quite recently, around the mid 80s, has anybody found there was anything untoward about this. That sudden concern did not coincide with the introduction of semi- automatic rifles, it was late for that by nearly a hundred years. Nor does it correspond with the emergence of the AR-15 onto the civilian market, it’s 20 years too late for that.
In these inane back and forth arguments over what are nothing more than absolute “Constitutional Infringements…” Maybe we should ask basic questions…Like such as regarding “Red Flag /ERPO Laws…” So, If that’s the case….Why CAN’T Local/City/State Police Departments Issue THEIR own WARRANTS…? How would you think that would work out if those basic checks and balances went out the window….What if your local police department sent Police Officers to every home or apartment and demanded it’s residents as “good citizens” to provide them with a copy of your front and back door key 🔑…How would one respond to that type of event….
“Weapons of war have no place on our streets.”…. Correct! That’s why we don’t have bakesales for IEDs and drone attacks against anything other than hogs are largely discouraged.
Most of the Ass wipes that espouse Anti Americanism and are Anti Constitution are Rich Liberal Democrats
Ignorant of their very History that made our great country, instead they try to change our history, the demon-crats have perverted our country and caused the Bureaucrats to become treasonous and help only the Democrat political machine cause a civil war so they can take over without elections!
I’m on the Moms Demand Action and Everytown social media pages everyday. They don’t care about details. Its a perfect example of sheer indoctrination, intellectual dishonesty and strawmen. Throw in a fair amount of NRA derangement syndrome and it really is an exercise in futility.
If you can get an anti-gunner one on one or in a moderated environment, only then do the tactics in the article come into play.
The semi-automatic AR15 “weapon of war” has in fact never been issued for front line combat forces in the United States or ANY OTHER country in the entire world.
Now is there another lie you’d like me to talk about.
“Weapons of war don’t belong on the streets!”
…Said the NY Blackout riots, LA riots, Ferguson riots, Hurricane Katrina looting, etc, etc, etc.
In support of the 2nd amendment, everyone and anyone with the money and desire to own a machine designed to fire a large number of bullets for whatever purpose should be allowed buy that machine. Freedom like this is truly the American way. God bless the USA. I hope that we all remember that there is some price to be paid for this freedom. In this case I guess we all agree the occasional classroom full of dead children is perfectly acceptable. As long as it’s not your child you basically don’t give a crap.
The violent criminals in the USA, especially the street gangsters, benefit the most from “gun control,” which is a euphemism for gun seizure (from the law abiding exclusively). If the DemLeftists (aka radical socialists or social justice warriors) ultimately prevail, then the Treyvon Martins and the Mike Browns (aka the sociopathic thugs and “gangstas”) will roam freely throughout the nation – not only in the major cities as they already do – shooting and murdering with virtual impunity (if apprehended they’ll be sentenced to probation while receiving federally funded job training). Gun control NEVER applies to violent criminals; thugs with guns are ALWAYS treated as victims! If the Dems ever regain full control of the government, as they did in 2008, the USA is over and the newly “transformed” nation will evolve into the westernized version of the old USSR.
If gun control was anything like “illegal immigration control in a sanctuary city the 2A would have nothing to worry about.
The next time someone tells me AR stands for either “Assault Rifle” or “Automatic Rifle” I’m going to point them to the AR-7. Originally made by Armalite and designed by Eugene Stoner same as the AR-15. Let them try and figure out how either of those apply to the AR-7.