San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo
Former San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo new the requirement was illegal when he signed it into law. (By Anthony Quintano from Honolulu, HI, United States - This file has been extracted from another file: Facebook F8 2017 San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo (33272015914).jpg, CC BY 2.0, Link)
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Politicians both left and right love to talk about how they support civil rights. But when some get their hands on power and an opportunity presents itself, they become heavy-handed, paternalistic tyrants. Yes, actions speak louder than words and some pols find that a pair of jackboots fit them quite well.

Even before this new Chi-com virus had spread in their cities, a number of politicians at the state and local levels have willingly (some might even say eagerly) issued decrees to curtail Constitutionally-protected rights, especially the right to keep and bear arms.

As we’ve reported (here and here for instance), sometimes pushback has resulted in a reversal of these authoritarian orders. In other cases, not so much.

One of the very first governments to grab increased power came in my former hometown of Champaign, Ilinois. The mayor there, “Little Debbie” Frank Feinen, called an emergency meeting of the City Council by executive order. Then, at that meeting – quite possibly an illegal one, under Illinois Open Meeting Act – the council passed a measure to grant the mayor the power to suspend firearms and ammunition sales and transfers.

By signing the proposal, the mayor gave herself the power to unilaterally suspend a big chunk of the Second Amendment by decree.

I remember many years ago then-city council candidate Frank Feinen coming to a Guns Save Life meeting (where I now serve as Executive Director) to tell us of her staunch support for gun rights.

She told the crowd that night that she wanted to take one of our firearms training classes that she had heard so many good things about from her friends. This was years before Illinois passed its concealed carry law with a 16-hour training requirement.

Mayor Deborah Frank Feinen
Champaign, IL Mayor “Little Debbie” Frank-Feinen and US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.  Courtesy Mayor Deborah Frank Feinen

Actions speak louder than words. It probably won’t surprise you to hear that Frank Feinen never registered for a GSL firearms class. But just this month she did sign that ordinance giving her the power to strip gun rights for her city’s residents and visitors.

New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, California and other states are similarly using the Wuhan flu outbreak as a convenient excuse to actually implement gun shop closures.  Or to try. Plenty more states are suspending carry license application processing.

At the same time, some of these very same political leaders are emptying their jails and prisons of real criminals. And in the next breath they threaten to jail law-abiding folks for stepping off their property for an “unapproved” reason. Or, in the case of Los Angeles authoritarian Mayor Eric Garcetti, to shut off the power and water of those who refuse to comply with their shut-down decrees.

It’s not just the fundamental, Constitutionally-protected right to keep and bear arms that’s under fire. Virginia’s blackface governor, Ralph Northam, criminalized church attendance by over 10 people this week.  Fundamental right to worship?  Not in his state.

From CNS News.

Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam issued an executive order on Monday that is aimed at stopping the new coronavirus — and, in the process, makes it a criminal offense to hold a church service attended by more than 10 people.

Yes, his order makes it a crime for more than 10 people to gather in a church.

There are two passages in the text of the governor’s order that are relevant to this.

Paragraph 1 says: “Therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me by Article V, Section 7 of the Constitution of Virginia, by § 44-146.17 of the Code of Virginia and in furtherance of Executive Order 51, I order the following: 1. Effective 11:59 p.m., Tuesday, March 24, 2020 until 11:59 p.m., Thursday, April 23, 2020, all public and private in person gatherings of 10 or more individuals are prohibited.”

The second relevant section of the order says: “Violation of paragraphs 1, 3, 4, and 6 of this Order shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor pursuant to § 44-146.17 of the Code of Virginia.”

What’s next? Will paternalistic tyrants forbid media outlets from broadcasting President Trump’s briefings or Rush Limbaugh’s radio show during this time of emergency? Maybe they’ll suspend the Fourth Amendment in order to search homes for hoarded food and supplies. Or to seize guns for the public safety.

Or maybe suspend the November election in their states.

How far will tyrants get before America’s gun owners say “enough”?

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  1. I gather most people view oppression like a weighted blanket. A certain amount of liberty crushing as a comforting thing. At least decades on this planet watching people not only happily accept the control put upon them but going out of their way to demand more control be put upon them leads me to this conclusion.

    See: Orange man bad! Why won’t Orange man lock us all in our homes and send the military around to shoot anyone they see outside!! coming from the CNN and MSNBC types.

    Reminiscent of the classic: Drumpf is a fascist!! Please Drumpf take our guns and regulate our speech!

    • This is why its good to have the same principles for whatever letter is next to the name.

      Anytime someone says “I’m Glad Trump is…. (Insert overstepping order)” I always ask them, would you be okay with it if it was Obama?… I’m only 31 but I’ve seen enough to know that any “order” can set precedence. The next guy that does it you might not “trust”, and he/she is very likely to take it further. I don’t trust any of them when they go with unchecked power. We still live in a constitutional republic, despite their best efforts.

  2. See or Google: 42 U.S.Code 5207 Firearms policies. The things mayors CAN”T do. Maybe we need to make 1,000,000,000 copies of the law and mail to our elected officials.

    • Lawsuits have already begun to be filed, and many more will come. Court decisions on these matters will be of paramount importance, in order to frame what can and cannot be done the next time this happens.

      • EHHH.. Bring ALL the lawsuits, any wanna be Dictator worth the label will just shut down the courts because, you know, public health and safety….

    • That law prohibits FEDERAL personnel from gun confiscation. Mayors are not Federal employees. Not applicable. Should ruin Joey and Butto O’Dork’s plan to come for your AK-47 and AR-14s. But, then politicians never obey the laws they pass. Those laws are only for control of the Little Peeps

      • To many of these petty control freaks, doubly so little Mikey, is they feel regrets for never going far enough.

  3. “How far will tyrants get before America’s gun owners say “enough”?”

    In addition to the thirst for power and agenda, I think a lot of this is testing the waters as to what “we” will put up with. Not just 2A. STAY HOME! ALL WILL DIE!!

    600 people have died nationwide…but they are attributing almost everything to COVID-19. 90 years old with diabetes, heart issues, and in a high density old folks home…AND you get Covid-19? Another COVID-19 death.

    So, 600. 80,000 people dies of the flu in winter 17/18. How much of that did you hear?

    PA Gov. and a SoCal Sheriff backpedaled yesterday on 2A restrictions because of pushback and bad optics. Experiment completed. NEXT!

    They will push just a little at a time, again and again, so see what we will stomach. If one or more people snap, and “do something?” SEE?!?! That’s way we need new laws.

    This is nothing we haven’t seen before or discussed widely here and elsewhere.

    Pay attention, be ready to talk people through their reliance on MSM, and don’t get in line to give up your right and freedoms.

    • reacting to these attempts at further restrictions is vital…this is no time for apathy…and always support those gun rights organizations that are actively involved in fighting this…let people in power know you are not happy!….

      • “let people in power know you are not happy!….”

        They know. They just don’t give a flying fuck. Until each and every attempt to infringe on constitutionally protected human rights carries a very real risk of dire personal consequences for the wannabe infringer, we keep sliding down the slope to total public disarmament.

  4. In some parts of the nation already to far. Except everyone is waiting for some one else to ” Fire the First Shot”. So to speak. Other areas where 2A Freedoms are more prevalent. That line is yet to be crossed. While We actually see some states where 2A Freedoms are near absolute. These differences are all based on who the voters elect. As well as on the actions of those elected to govern. Some follow the Constitution and the Restrictions on Governmental Powers it Proclaims. While others Ignore those same Provisions and Rule as they wish. At the end of the day. It all falls at the feet of The People. They either except the actions of those who Rule over them. Or they remove Them as needed. To be replaced by people willing to govern under the Rules set forth by the Constitution. There are two choices. 1) Be a Subject of the Rulers. 2) Those chosen to Govern are Subject to the People. Keep Your Powder Dry.

  5. Gotta give credit to Gov. Charlie Baker here in MA. Non-essential businesses are closed. Gun stores are open on Cape Cod. Still a fair number of carry guns and ammo available. My wholesaler didn’t have a round of ammo to ship with my new piece, having shipped 9 million rounds in the last ten days. My local guy had plenty.

  6. Lost down south, The number is over 1000 now. 1000 is not a lot, but doubling in a day or two should be alarming to anyone. We are about to pass China in number of confirmed cases 75,000 now vs 81,000. We are so early in it we have less than 1000 recovered. I don’t like quarantine, but I believe the only reason China has leveled off is they have implemented draconian level quarantine, or possibly have quit even letting their scientist report on the number of new cases. Flip a coin as to which is true.

      • Exactly. They’ve lost all credibility on all fronts. I took a screenshot of the JHU page five days ago on Mar 21. China was at 81,305. Since then, as everyone else’s numbers have skyrocketed, where is China today?

        I just checked right now before writing this sentence…they’re at 81,782. An increase of only 0.6%, after a ballistic upward curve? It suddenly stopped in its tracks?

        • 21 million fewer cell phone contracts in China over the last three months. Extrapolate from that what you will.

        • That is not a misprint, it is deliberate, whether or not it is true. China officially reported 4 or 5 days in a row of *zero* new cases, a couple more days where only a couple of *imported* cases were new. As a result, they are dropping quarantines and disassembling some of those “instant” hospitals they built a couple weeks back.

        • I figured the Chinese worked up a vaccine to give to their infected, probably primarily composed of lead and administered at ~ 1500 fps.

    • The total people in the entire world that have died has only just reached the number of people who die in Just the US from the flu. 500,000 cases world wide infected. 36,000,000 infected of the flu in the us alone. If the flu was reported in this way with rolling death totals and red colored maps would we be doing this to ourselves?

      • I would say yes. It’s all in a way the news are served. If bathtub slips and falls were reported like this nothingburger is, people would start to demolish their bathrooms in a week.

    • I’ll take China’s coronavirus numbers with a large dose of the salts. There have been 21 MILLION internet service disconnections in China. Could that be a more realistic number?

      • “I’ll take China’s coronavirus numbers with a large dose of the salts.”

        Don’t you really mean a large dose of ‘bath salts’… 😉

    • Something else to consider is that China’s numbers don’t include asymptomatic cases while the US numbers include presumed cases. At least a third of those with the virus in China are asymptomatic and they are turning away people trying to get tested so they can say there are no new cases.

  7. Here’s my take from all this: The cops ain’t comin’. When, for instance, the Philadelphia police commissioner announced that a whole list of property crimes and drug crimes were not arrest-worthy, the clear message to cops on the street was to slack off. Her clear message to private citizens was—you’re on your own.

  8. All the politicos are frog boiling and letting everyone know what their secret agendas are now. The state constitutions are being trampled on along with the 2A. I dont know how legal any of this “emergency powers” crap is but I got a feeling we will be seeing some of them rescinded and some mayors and governors looking for new jobs this November or next.

  9. Wait until “COVID got in our water supply, we need to shit off water”. Then, “we need to shut it off preemptively before it happens here”.

    All because of “failure to comply”.

    Stay strapped folks. It’s only the beginning. Hopefully I’m wrong, but I have zero faith in government to do anything right, let along not completely trample everyone’s rights, literally to death.

  10. They will get as far as UK levels of gun control as long as they do it slow enough and we the people keep settling for the lesser of two evils politicians. The fact that places like CA and NY continue to enforce the laws they have is proof that we gun owners won’t do anything. Rabid anti gun politicians will keep decimating gun rights and “pro gun” politicians will keep receiving support from pro gun voters as long as they don’t do anything overtly anti gun.

    • Yep, liberty is like a sandcastle at the edge of the ocean. Every moment another wave carries a piece of it away. We have to constantly pile on the sand or say goodbye to the sandcastle.

  11. While there are a few willing to stand up, most Americans are too fat and lazy and will let the gov walk all over them. Just look at the large numbers of people now supporting communism

  12. When the first one of these tyrants takes a bullet to the face I would say that would be the first indicator we have had enough.

      • Only when the people refuse to cooperate with the murder investigators will we know that things have really changed.
        In rural North Carolina the local people refused to the help the FBI in searching for Eric Rudolph. In fact they harassed the agents using laser pointers. Scaring them into thinking they were about to be shot from a sniper position. Signs and people wearing T shirts with anti-FBI slogans were everywhere in the area.
        That is community passive and active resistance to government authority.

    • I would vote for a pointy stick into abdomen or a piece of plumbing material applied to the head. That way they cannot use it to promote more gun grabs.

  13. I have no idea “how far” we’ll go. The bug eyed mayor of Chriaq just banned the lake front and all park gatherings. Yet my son’s & I did a Target run looking for alcohol & T paper(nope). Into Indiana too. No one guarding rhe border. Did I get close to others? Yep. I just know I’m not calling 5-O if a miscreant decides to break in…

  14. I’m viewing this whole lockdown business as a dry run for a military-style takeover of the country or parts of it. I’m not saying that’s why we are under house arrest, but I am saying that certain politicians are watching carefully and taking notes. I’ll also bet that they are going to tighten their control more and more just to see how far they can go.

    And right about now, I’m betting that they view the Second Amendment as a paper tiger.

    • What Ralph said ⬆️ Also it’s rather hard to feel sorry for Illinois residents. I hear the mantra that it will just spread but history has shown otherwise. Lived in numerous anti gun states and won’t go back. If I can leave you can to.

      • Right back atcha hillbilly. I ain’t sending $ to Virginia. Or any state boasting how great they have it. Show up & vote! Btw Ralph lives in Massachusetts as far as I know. Possibly worse than ILL…

        • Yeah, MA sucks, but it’s hardly the worst. A lot depends on the chief LEO of the town or city.

        • Ordered to prison hillbilly? I have a home in ILL. What chit state are you bragging about? I have stated many times about moving east…you’d know that if you weren’t a new troll.

    • It def could be the perfect opportunity for a “test” to see how far they could take it before people say No

      • Unfortunately, the “patriots” that complied with Northam’s emergency order during lobby day are also following orders now. The government tested them on lobby day, the “patriots” failed and made sure to clean up too. Now they have to stay away from more than 9 people even on their own property.

        Of course people should not try to get others sick, but the government has overstep their authority with bad intentions.

    • It’s called social engineering.

      After secretly mobilizing the National Guard they activated them before telling the people. Oddly, I don’t see them on TV much. I know the federal government said the Army and National Guard are out there not to impose martial law and the state government’s orders, but to help with the medial aspect.

      If you give a power hungry politician the opportunity to be king… If they could, they would.

  15. The only dirtbags who want an unarmed citizenry are murderers, thieves, rapists, kidnappers, perverts, bullies, child molesters and sicko gun control zealots. None of the aforementioned are ever to have it their way.

    • ” murderers, thieves, rapists, kidnappers, perverts, bullies, child molesters and sicko gun control zealots ”

      You coulda just said politicians and saved a lot of keyboard work.

  16. About Gov. Northam and his decree prohibiting more than ten people to congregate, it is not about churches. It is about everyone. Still, unconstitutional, but not because of the religion thing.

    The US Constitution prohibits Congress from making laws prohibiting people from peaceably assembling.
    USA Constitution, The First Amendment

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    That’s about Congress, not the States. But the state constitutions typically repeat much of the US Constitutions. Here’s what Virginia’s constitution has to say on the matter:
    Virginia Constitution, Article 1, Section 12.
    Freedom of speech and of the press; right peaceably to assemble, and to petition.

    That the freedoms of speech and of the press are among the great bulwarks of liberty, and can never be restrained except by despotic governments; that any citizen may freely speak, write, and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right; that the General Assembly shall not pass any law abridging the freedom of speech or of the press, nor the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for the redress of grievances.

    So Northam is violating certainly the spirit of the US Constitution (and a whole lot of commonly held American thought on Liberty), but also the very letter of the supreme law of Virginia.

    I’d say impeachment is called for.

    As Victoria Illinois mentioned above, there’s another law to mention here. After all the stupid gun stealing antics in New Orleans during Katrina, various state and finally a Federal law were created to specifically prohibit the use of a disaster or emergency to take guns from people, or deny them their Second Amendment rights. See:
    42 U.S. Code § 5207. Firearms policies

    Lastly, I wouldn’t mind a governor asking, urging, begging, pleading with people to please please please take all these preventative steps to contain the bug. All that would be fine.

    But ordering? Under threat of arrest?

    Nope. Your job as a governor is to lead, not to violate the fundamental laws of our society. If voluntary “Social Distancing” is vital in this pandemic, well then it is a leader’s job to convince the citizens of that need. If the task is beyond the elected leader, there is always the path of resignation. Open the job up to someone else. Hopefully someone more adept at inspiring and leading people within the bounds of the laws created to define our Republic and protect th Liberties and Freedoms it was created to insure.

    • Enuf,

      Exactly so. But he has the guns and cops to enforce it.

      Yes, we can use the courts to stop him. We need to remove governors and mayors from office when they flagrantly, arrogantly place themselves above the state law and the Constitution. Their criminal behavior must have the consequence of removal from office.

      That being said, how do we do it without waiting for the next election? I do not know. Just ranting, I guess.

      • There is the 1st Amendment, then there is the 2nd. Civil disobedience. Maybe armed disobedience if they want to get violent after they broke the law and tried to impose their tyranny.

  17. As I said earlier: I really don’t think this is some big plan. It’s incompetent people who are in over their head panicking and getting the “dO sOmetHiNg” bug. People who have promised that government can do everything are essentially incapable of admitting that government is in the backseat for anything.

    That said, some of the things they’re saying make sense based on what we know about this disease (after scrapping the Chinese dataset which is, erm, suspect at best). The form of government edict is lame but you know what goes hand in hand with these politicians getting elected? The morons that elected them. Those people probably need someone to tell them basic shit at this point.

    I mean, seriously, put aside the right to worship for a second and ask: Who the fuck thinks that going to a crowded Church function right now is a good idea? We make fun of fundamentalist Islam for doing this and loads of them getting Coronavirus but we think that Jesus is going to keep us safe? Such services are a great way for gramps and grammy to end up with 2020 as the end date on their headstone. Read your Bible at home. Learn to use Disqus or a video conference for Bible Study or something. It’s not about you, it’s about the high-risk population you could end up killing. Yet lots of dipshits will still go to a crowded Church on Sunday as if it’s somehow protected. Well, we know that a Church isn’t immune to mass shooters, we’ve discussed this at length here before. Why would anyone think that such a congregation is immune to a highly contagious disease?

    I’d love to believe that generally speaking people would be responsible about gatherings of all types. That those who have contact with seniors would abstain from either the gathering or contact with the older folks. That they’d pick one out of a sense of responsibility. But I know they won’t. Xers and Boomers will talk shit about Zoomers going on Spring Break and partying it up but then they’ll go to something like a Church service and say “But dAts diFfeReNt!!”. No, from a virology or epidemiology standpoint it’s not. At all.

    Seriously, the only people who should be getting ticked about such advice are the ones taking advantage of their congregation on Sunday, or Saturday if you’re a weirdo (I kid the 7th Dayers).

    I have no problem with the people who want to call the government out on this while saying “Well, the edict is bullshit but I wasn’t going to attend anyway because that would be a bad idea”. Such people can make the finer distinction themselves and they are not the problem at all. Those people are totally fine in my book. It’s the people who would attend (and more specifically the hubristic assholes who would host) that I have no truck with. They’re not complaining out of principle. They’re complaining out of having their life disrupted in terms of not being allowed to do something fundamentally stupid and potentially extremely dangerous to others.

    And the hilarious thing? The same people complaining generally have no problem with DUI or drug laws. But when that logic is applied to something that they like they’re the first people to start talking about “tyranny”.

    • I think we should treat the Chinese dataset as suspect but not ignore it. It’s definitely one end of the spectrum. On the other is Iran, where they did nothing and I wouldn’t be surprised if they face another revolution before this is all over. We want to be somewhere in between.

      There will be major worldwide political ramifications for this. I wonder if the politicians and CEOs demanding that we get back to work now to save their stock options realize how fragile the economic system is without considering that our political system is currently in a dangerous state as well. People don’t respond well to being laid off but they also don’t respond well to seeing tractor trailers shipping bodies of their loved ones away because politicians lied to them and told them “it’s just a bad flu, bro”

      • To your first point:

        I would simply disregard that dataset. Simply put: where there are errors we cannot actually isolate that. The entire set needs to be treated as though it’s corrupt at this point. Later on we can see how it fits with the rest of the data we get from this and figure out where/when/how it was corrupted and try to figure out if that was intentional or incompetence. But for now we can’t let that data pollute the actual known data that we have and skew our perspective. That sucks but at this point it’s the reality of dealing with China because we don’t know which parts of that dataset may or may not be corrupt we just know they have a demonstrated history of lying on this topic and, really, aren’t that good at sciencey shit to begin with.

        Your second point is spot-on. Honestly, one of the reasons I’ve been harping on education as part of the 2A battle is because I’ve thought for some time that “freedom” has been dead for at least three decades. Freedom doesn’t reside in ink on parchment or in government proclamations, laws or regulations. Similarly it doesn’t reside in posts on the internet or letters to the editor. It resides in the hearts and minds of the population and the rest is just symptoms of how well freedom is doing within that population, and like some biological mechanisms, it requires a sufficient percent of the population to harbor ideas and feelings on freedom for freedom to really be “alive”. We hit the tipping point IMHO when I was a kid or before, probably before. Generational warfare, IMO, is the prime example that personal responsibility was dead generations ago. It just took us this long to figure it out.

    • Pretty much agree with what you are saying.

      Gov. Northam’s 10 person edict is a violation of the Virginia Constitution. What it also is, is a failure of leadership.

      It is not necessary to issue an edict, a command, a directive from on high. What he needed to do was to convince the citizens of his state to follow very good advice on this damned bug. Leaders do such things. They explain the problem in terms the people can follow, explain what needs to be done about it and inspire the people to take the needed actions.

      Unlawful orders and threats of arrest and so forth are the stuff of incompetents, or worse.

      • Elections select for people who are good at convincing other people that the original person is electable. Nothing else. That’s part of the problem.

        Months back here there was a discussion of Athenian Democracy that made me laugh. No one seemed to have actually read up on how Athens made that system work. A huge part of it was selection for certain government offices by lot which basic competence incentivized by 10 years of ostracism via popular vote for those who didn’t do a good job.

        Everyone had a vested interest in being informed because you never knew when you might be selected for civil service and get booted from the City for a decade if you didn’t measure up. Such thinking is an anathema to most modern democrats.

    • I’m still trying to find that passage in the Bible where it says you can do stupid things and it will be OK, because Jesus. I don’t think it works like that.

      • I’m fairly confident that it doesn’t work that way and equally confident that Jesus never suggested as much.

        But that’s not what a lot of people would seem to believe. There are interesting articles in serious philosophy publications on the subject where very, very serious religious folk bemoan the fact that theological institutions spend a lot of time training priests/pastors/ministers in deep philosophy and then instruct them never to talk about it with “the flock” because it causes friction with the folks who took Sandra’s Sunday School class too seriously.

        I mean, what percentage of Christians these days do you suppose are competent to talk about the thoughts underlying the indivisibility yet divisibility of the soul? Or the layers of soul? How many people have seen a Sunday School teacher tell a kid that their dead dog won’t be in heaven because dogs don’t have souls? And how many people realize that the Sunday School teacher is preaching a bunch of modernistic bullshit that goes against 1800 years of Christian philosophy?

        I mean, seriously, who’s more likely to be right when it comes to the nature of the soul? Serious Christian thinkers who spent a lifetime studying scripture, reading the philosophical thoughts of others like them and pondering this deeply for decades, or Karen who works at the bank and likes to write letters to her HOA?

    • There is plans, from big business, to make the economy shift during a pandemic for their profit. They have been planning for this day for a long time now. It’s all on purpose.

      Singapore, South Korea and Japan have been doing great while not destroying their currency and transferring wealth away from the people.

      The corrupt countries are taking this as the perfect opportunity to do what they have been planning.

      • Those countries also all have something in common: a very strong culture based around the idea of respecting your neighbor. Giving your neighbor a disease would bring shame on you and your family. Deep shame that would stain the family for a long time.

        We don’t have that cultural incentive to think about other people and as much as some people might want to make it about age or some other issue, the truth is that their doing that just shows that they don’t respect other people either when it comes to personal behavior.

        • When growing up I was told that white America has respect and manners while everyone else are savages. When did that get thrown into the trash? I thought America was a Christian nation. Kids don’t even care about their parents and grandparents dying from the virus.

        • That kind of behavior has always been there but it starts to really ramp up across the population in the mid to late 1960’s.

          The whole Boomer/Millennial generational warfare thing is nothing more than both groups projecting their own deficiencies onto the other with the assistance of some shitstiring douchebags who benefit from creating and exacerbating the divide.

  18. I’m currently reading the Federalist Papers. I feel confident saying that Alexander Hamilton would’ve expected us to stand up by now.

    • I don’t like Hamilton. If you keep reading you will see that he dismissed a lot of fears that people had which are now issues for us today. He had an unhealthy confidence in the virtue of politicians and the ability of a republic to keep an expanding government in check.

  19. It is only going to get worse in states where the Democretins control the government. Gun fans in these locales should consider re-locating to one of the more conservative western states if possible.

  20. There are two things you can do when the time comes. Vote and jury nullification. That doesn’t require the use of a cartridge box. Gun owners are not voting. But the Left is going to the polls every time in elections. Virginia??? Florida???

  21. How far will tyrants get before America’s gun owners say “enough”?

    Based on historical evidence, pretty goddamn far.

  22. Well they’ve already got a quarter of the population barred from buying a firearm at a dealer or owning a handgun, a total ban on the most common firearms for everyone, a ban on mail order, an 11% tax, and needing government permission for purchase from a dealer. Sadly, I see them continuing to boil the frog slowly.

    • When you start hearing people talk about St. McVeigh,
      You mean the scumbag coward who acted even worse than the scumbag cowards who supposedly set him off? The C–T bitch that that killed 19 children and 49 civilians? The asshole that killed Social Security workers, people from the Dept of Agriculture, HUD, Customs, Transportation, (Air Force, Army and Marine recruiters)? Real hero, anyone that even utters his or his co-cowards name should be shot…… 169 innocent people died and more than 600 injured (many life altering)while going about their daily business and it accomplished absolutely nothing good for gun owners….

      • Would you consider the men flying the bombers over Dresden to be scumbag coward? They sure killed a lot of innocent women and children for no other reason than to break the will of the Germans.

        War is a messy affair and always involves killing women and children.

        • for no other reason than to break the will of the Germans.

          No I don’t agree with carpet bombing entire cities but I also don’t agree with maniacle “little” dictators trying to dominate the world to satisfy their own ego… I would hardly agree to any similarities (other than the deaths of innocents) of what that shithead did in OKC to Hitlers murdering of 6 million people because they were Jews and his destruction of dozens of cities and killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians throughout Europe which would have continued until the will to fight had been drained from Western Europe…. Hitler would not have stopped at the Atlantic OR the Baltic either, that POS wanted it all, dickhead in OKC just wanted to put on a show, we WERE not and we ARE not at war with the government (yet). Waco could have been avoided, there was a lot of dumb shit happening that led up that fiasco, but the response of an alleged “patriot” who killed 169 innocent people because 82 (plus 4 government agents) in Texas died fighting a battle they were ill prepared for was the act of a coward… You said it “Dresden was bombed to break the will of the Germans”. What did that asshole in OKC hope to accomplish by killing a bunch of people (including children) other than his own 15 minutes of fame, he surely did not think the government was going to change because of him, the only thing he changed was the lives of the people and families of those he murdered and irreparably maimed…… I would think if Dresden upsets you then Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be on your list as well, those people are still living with birth defects and some fucked up mutations 75 years later…

        • for no other reason than to break the will of the Germans.

          No I don’t agree with carpet bombing entire cities but I also don’t agree with maniacle “little” dictators trying to dominate the world to satisfy their own ego… I would hardly agree to any similarities (other than the deaths of innocents) of what that shithead did in OKC to Hitlers murdering of 6 million people because they were Jews and his destruction of dozens of cities and killing of millions of civilians throughout Europe and 19 million civillians in Russia (3% of the WORLDS population died in WWII) which would have continued until the will to fight had been drained from Western Europe…. Hitler would not have stopped at the Atlantic OR the Baltic either, that POS wanted it all, dickhead in OKC just wanted to put on a show, we WERE not and we ARE not at war with the government (yet). Waco could have been avoided but the Branch Davidians made a CHOICE, the people in the Murrah building were not given options, there was a lot of dumb shit happening that led up to the fiasco at Waco, but the response of an alleged “patriot” who killed 169 innocent people because 82 (plus 4 government agents) in Texas died fighting a battle they were ill prepared for was the act of a coward… You said it “Dresden was bombed to break the will of the Germans”. What did that asshole in OKC hope to accomplish by killing a bunch of people (including children) other than his own 15 minutes of fame, he surely did not think the government was going to change because of him, the only thing he changed was the lives of the people and families of those he murdered and irreparably maimed…… I would think if Dresden upsets you then Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be on your list as well, those people are still living with birth defects and some fucked up mutations 75 years later… I won’t call those bomber crews cowards because they could have been shot down and killed or captured but I won’t call them heroes or “Saints” either…

    • That inhuman scumbag slaughtered innocent little children, office workers, pregnant women, babies from three months old, and common citizens going about their routine lives both in the place he targeted and in other buildings and a parking lot where debris from the blast showed no care at all about anyone’s politics.

      This is what that filthy bastard did, this baby was pulled alive from the rubble by the firefighter but died soon after, too badly injured to be helped:

      Fuck McVeigh and any shit for brains asshole who thinks him a saint or a even a figure to be admired. He was a traitor to his country and a mass murderer of women and children and anyone else he could find to kill.

      • without Waco it never would have happened….and it’s a mistake to assume there aren’t others out there just waiting to be triggered…..

        • Yeah, I know. I’ve been saying for decades and writing on internet forums how the ATF is the most blood soaked law enforcement agency in terms of its own screw-ups. Began with the shooting of Ken Ballew in 1971 and only got worse from there. Even if their arrogance and incompetence only triggered more severe events by another agency, the blood on their hands was often the trigger event.

          Which does not excuse any of what the Oklahoma City Bomber did. The most basic of life’s rules, two wrongs do not make a right.

          If I could, I’d dig him up, bring him back to life and execute him all over again, in a creative and painful manner.

          170 times.

  23. “How Far Will Would-Be Tyrants Get Before America’s Gun Owners Say ‘Enough’?”

    We’ve already said “enough”, the real question is “How Far Will Would-Be Tyrants Get Before America’s Gun Owners decide to take up arms?”

    • We’ve already said ‘enough’ many times, and the little tyrants don’t listen and keep crossing all the lines in the sand without consequences. Why would they stop now?

  24. The money boy for the politicians will give the dissenters a healthy slab of money they will buy off the world like they always do, there are a few who will not comply and have taught their kids also too value freedom.

  25. mike vanderboegh’s “no fort sumters” rule.

    “If we refuse to bow to their tyranny, however, eventually it is they who lose patience. Time is against them once people start defying them. They MUST scare the rest of the sheep in order to maintain power.

    And so they will come to us with deadly force. Then we can resist with deadly force. En masse. Together. And we will finish these domestic enemies of the Founders Republic by giving them incentives to leave or die.

    AFTER they start it.

    In legitimate self-defense.

    Seems simple enough to me.

    Why there is such confusion over this principle I do not understand.”

    • Are you suggesting that they are not already coming with deadly force aginst those who refused to obey their 2A infringements? Assemble a short barreled pistol upper to a rifle lower, manufacture a machinegun or just carry a pistol without the government blessing in major part of the country. You are safe only as long as the higher powers don’t know about it.


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