As you’ve no doubt heard by now, the Brady Campaign’s ill-conceived attempt to extract funds from Lucky Gunner for legally selling ammo via the Internet to the Aurora theater shooter was slapped down by a Colorado court with extreme prejudice. For filing the frivolous suit, the once-prominent civilian disarmament advocacy org was ordered to pay Lucky Gunner over $111,000 to cover their legal fees. While the Brady bunch is appealing the decision, but just to make the order sting a little more, the online ammo vendor has pledged to donate the funds to a pro-2A organization. And they’re letting you decide the recipient. Click here to tell Lucky Gunner how to spend the Brady Campaign’s cash. [h/t GayGunOwner]
How about endowing a “Good Guy With a Gun Award” program?
Come on People! The 2A foundation has done way more to advance our cause than any of these other groups.
I 2nd the motion, give it to the Alan.
^^^This! SAF FTW!
My vote is for SAF
Mine too. They’ve proved themselves worthy and deserve to be rewarded. On a national level, I think SAF has the best 2A return on investment.
Another vote for the SAF. The work they’ve done has been hugely influential for gun rights.
+1 I also donate to them through smile.amazon.com it probably doesn’t send them much but has to be better than nothing.
Apparently Illinois really wants the dough.
I voted Pink Pistols, because why not. Also my state wasn’t listed.
I was about to say the same thing about IL.
I highly doubt LG will ever see a penny of The Brady Bunch’s money.
I am inclined to agree. Many of these leftist organization have a reputation for closing up shop on a dime, then the officers immediately regroup to start another organization with the same exact goals while claiming no responsibility for the previous organization’s transgressions. ACORN is the most memorable.
Don’t know how much, from whom, or when damages will be received by LG. But in the mean time, grab some popcorn to watch the unfolding drama.
My understanding is that Brady, Brady’s lawyers, and the named plaintiffs are quarreling as to who pays the piper. The judge was particularly critical of Brady’s lawyers – in effect saying there was virtually no chance of prevailing on the basis of their claim. Reading the opinion, he lays the groundwork for having the bar association sanction them and for denial of an appeal.
The plaintiff’s probably have little money compared to Brady or their lawyers, but any attempt to get them to pony up would might discourage anyone else from participating in such litigation.
But Brady isn’t a few bulbs short of a chandelier either. They knew or should have known the risks. I assume they have inside lawyers that managed the case handled by outside lawyers, but am not positive about this aspect.
Anyway, it’s a win on multiple fronts from my perspective, and the entertainment value is priceless. Let the games begin.
I suspect Brady’s lawyers would love to stick the plaintiffs with the tab, but would that actually prove a better deterrent to future litigation?
What I had in mind was something indirect.
Mr. Bloomberg’s “Mayors Against Guns” campaign sharply contracted after the NRA countered by getting citizens to urge their mayors to withdraw from MAG. Many did. Mayors backpedaled when their political careers were threatened. My understanding is that MAG has now virtually evaporated as a threat to 2A.
Great strategy. Rather than confront the issue directly, threaten the political support of the mayors that signed up for MAG. Bye bye MAG and some of Mr. Bloomberg’s fortune.
So the next time that Brady, etc. want to exploit the misfortune of others to advance their agenda, it could be important for plaintiffs to realize they might incur some liability. It’s not uncommon for plaintiffs to have second thoughts and withdraw from a case.
Lots of ways to inform plaintiffs of risks (e.g., raise fear uncertainty, and doubt) without violating ethical constraints.
One of my lawyer friends mentioned an incident in which a district attorney (who was running for office and prosecuting a case) was appalled to discover his VOTE FOR photo stickers placed inside urinals used by the jury hearing the case. He lost the case, his appeal for a mistrial, and ultimately the election. Plus endless teasing about pissing away his case and career.
Um… in fact, the judge in this case DID stick the plaintiffs personally with the tab. All the talk about this being “the Bradys’ money” comes from people whose natural inclination is to expect other people to do the right thing, meaning they ASSUME the Bradys will pony up, since they started the pissing contest in the first place. But that’s not a foregone conclusion, and expecting the Bradys to do the right thing may be naive on our part. (On the other hand, if they fail to pony up, we can pretty much ruin their future chances of ever getting any other gullible idiots to be their stalking horses for other lawsuits.)
Henry – you’re correct. Here’s an update to the original claim that the Brady Center was responsible: http://freebeacon.com/issues/federal-judge-orders-brady-center-to-pay-ammo-dealers-legal-fees-after-dismissing-lawsuit/
I suspect it was initially misreported because Brady’s 2014 press release gave the impression that it was their suit. See http://www.bradycampaign.org/press-room/brady-center-sues-online-sellers-of-ammunition-and-equipment-used-in-aurora-movie-theater
Complaint at http://www.bradycampaign.org/sites/default/files/PhillipsvsLuckyGunner.pdf
LG’s blog says they spent $150K v. the award of $111.9K – see http://www.luckygunner.com/brady-v-lucky-gunner. The order is under appeal per the news report.
I’m unclear about the propriety of indemnification in these matters e.g., Brady agrees to litigate at their expense and agrees to incur all costs regardless of outcome – in effect using plaintiffs as a stalking horse.
While still a work in progress, it’s given LG great publicity. By contrast, Brady got a black eye, reputation damage, and litigation expense.
They should probably just stash the cash and prepare for the next progressive fruitcakes to file suit against them.
SAF, assuming there’s any left after the lawyers get done.
Send a nice thank you note to the Brady Campaign.
Lucky Gunner’s “Terms and Conditions” include this snippet under the heading, “Release of Liability and Agreement to Indemnify and Defend”
This is a HUGE liability. Had YOU been the Lucky Gunner customer in the referenced legal case, YOU would have been the one paying the $111,000 in legal fees to defend Lucky Gunner.
How about Lucky Gunner put that $111,000 cash in the bank to fund any future lawsuits and stop requiring their customers to pay for Lucky Gunner’s legal defense in any future legal cases!
I used to love Lucky Gunner. I no longer do business with them because of their current Terms and Conditions.
For anyone who is interested in seeing Lucky Gunner’s Terms and Conditions with their own eyes, go to http://www.luckygunner.com/terms-and-conditions
Are those terms enforceable? They can put what they want in their terms and conditions but I doubt they could enforce/make a casual purchaser pay their legal fees. But I’m not a lawyer.
Suggest you check with an attorney on this. My understanding is that the language is virtually unenforceable. Just because a garage sign states, Not Responsible for Loss or Damage, doesn’t mean that they are insulated from claims.
I applaud Lucky Gunner’s behavior and see no reason to shun them.
Lucky Gunner’s Terms and Conditions seem pretty clear to me. Of course our United States Supreme Court has no longer constrained itself to the actual meaning of words so I don’t see why the actual meaning of the words in Lucky Gunner’s Terms and Conditions would matter either.
Here’s an excerpt from Ralph’s Terms and Conditions:
“Anyone who reads this comment must immediately send $10.00 to Ralph.”
Clear? Yes. Enforceable? Hahahahahahah!
I have a hundred and eighty trillion dollars lying around. Literally, and I am not making this up, they’re on my coffee table as I write this. I’ll be generous and send you twenty of them as soon as I can find someone to break a ten trillion (Zimbabwe) dollar bill.
Enforceable or not, it betrays a crappy attitude towards their customers.
They’re good people. I used to buy from them when they had the best prices around. But I’ve seen other retailers lower their ammo prices more than LG, so now I shop elsewhere.
Looking at the terms, It appears you are reading it wrong.
You only are responsible if you do not meet the following.
“I am not currently less than twenty-one (21) years old
By selling or delivering ammunition to me, LuckyGunner.com is not violating any state or local law or ordinance.
I am not under indictment for and have never been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for over one year
I am not a fugitive from justice
I am not an unlawful user or addicted to any controlled substance
I have not been adjudicated as a mental defective and I have not been committed to any mental institution
I am not an illegal or unlawful alien
I have never been and I am not expected to be discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions
I have not renounced my U.S. citizenship
I am currently not subject to a restraining order of any kind
I have never been and I am not expected to be convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence
So pretty much except for the under 21 shouldn’t apply to 18+ buying rifle ammo, they only require you to pay if you legally shouldn’t recieve ammunition…
Now, point out if I am reading this wrong, but I don’t see it Uncommon_sense.
Lucky Gunner’s “Customer Affidavit” section says,
This language basically says that a purchaser must defend Lucky Gunner from any legal actions resulting from a purchaser being a “prohibited person”. There is no language there that says a purchaser is not required to defend Lucky Gunner from other legal actions.
….arising from or related to the products I have purchased …
1st) The defending of Lucky Gunner only comes in play if there are criminal actions resulting from actions that YOU did with YOUR ammo. Unless you plan on killing somebody illegally, you’re GTG.
That is NOT what Lucky Gunner’s Terms and Conditions say. Regardless of the legal merits of a plaintiff’s or prosecutor’s legal action, when a plaintiff or prosecutor goes after Lucky Gunner because of a customer’s purchase, Lucky Gunner requires that customer to defend Lucky Gunner.
The legal case referenced in this article was “frivolous” which is why the courts ultimately ordered the plaintiff to pay Lucky Gunner’s $111,000 legal fees. Of course that didn’t stop the case from proceeding and Lucky Gunner paid out over $111,000 in legal fees to defend themselves and eventually have the case thrown out. Had you been the purchaser in that case, you would have had to pay the $111,000 in legal fees to defend Lucky Gunner. And then you would pay even more legal fees trying to get the plaintiff to reimburse your legal expenses. And I haven’t even mentioned the added dimension that we are alledgedly commit one felony every day. Someone could start legal action against us without us even knowing it.
And what legal principle makes their Terms and Conditions unenforceable? It is part of their terms and conditions of doing business. If you agree to those terms, how are they unenforceable?
Stop for a minute and think about practical consequences. Even if LG attempted to enforce language along the lines of what you believe it means, it would kill their business. Ditto for almost every T&C boilerplate on the planet.
And before I forget, it’s commonly accepted that the United States Code is so complex and contradictory, that it is virtually impossible not to violate it. A point that’s been made multiple times by law professors. I seem to recall a claim that Americans routinely violate roughly 30 laws a day – but never apprehended or convicted.
I don’t know if baking pies on Sunday is still prohibited in Massachusetts, but can guarantee it’s not enforced if so.
I yield after reading it again. It’s unenforceable for me because I haven’t bought from LG since SH since their prices seem to never be competitive since then. I don’t bother checking them any more.
Help Sara cover costs to move to Wyoming
Sara is fully capable of taking care of Sara.
Perhaps I hold a little bit of bias, but the calguns foundation does good work in the golden state. I personally believe they’re one of the few reasons we still have a second amendment in the peoples republik of kalifornistan
Concur. Or you could vote for Firearms Policy Coalition, the related entity that includes CGF and several other grassroots up regional groups, to leverage their synergy on success in CA. Slow, and against all odds, it’s working.
Remember, “As California goes, so goes the nation”…
Calguns Foundation. They are the front line.
I feel like a program such as the Appleseed program should be on the list. That kind of money could go a long way to teaching kids proper firearm safety and respect.
TTAG readers appreciation BBQ and target shoot.
I sent a big thank you in the LG chat box….
and voted for Montana shooting sports.
I vote for the money to go to The Brain Trauma Foundation to honor James Brady and all the other brain-damaged members of the Brady Campaign.
Second Amendment Foundation all the way. Those guys have been making huge strides lately in the courts. They killed both DC and Puerto Rico’s restrictions this year.
NRA ILA….just because the thought of their money going to the “murdering gun lobby NRA” will have half their members all butthurt and wetting their pants over it .
2nd Amendment essay contests to give either 111 $1k or 222 $500 gift cards for first time gun owners to take the plunge.
I will be making a point to buy my ammo at LG online next time. Interesting background; they include former students of conlaw prof at U Tenn, Gllenn Reynolds, known for his gun law and other libertarian leaning scholarship, and online commentary as Instapundit.
An idea for future donations or crowd-sourcing: TTAG hosted how-to-write about guns seminar, for budding journalists, perhaps in partnership with some credible libertarian policy/legal think tank, like CATO or Institute for Justice, where writers would get an introduction to the facts, on history and the law, without the spin and bias from wealthy billionaires like the Littlest Nanny, and corrupted j-schools like Dart/Columbia.
We certainly have the examples of senior writers who have been there, done that in David Codrea, Dean Weingarten, Mike McDaniels, and others, as well as the up-and-comers like Nick, JWT, Paulson, and many more too numerous to mention.
Bravo – great idea.
That is Connecticut Citizens Defense League!
No Brainer..goes to NRA. Is there any other group that the Brady Bunch targets more? If the answer is “no” that should tell you everything you need to know…
Start a new charity called “The Brady Foundation Second Amendment Defense Fund.”
Is that enough money to buy a politician?
Politician? For $100K, you can buy an entire political party.
SAF has done good work and I’ve written them several checks myself, so I won’t say a word against anyone voting for them. I cast my own vote for Maryland Shall Issue. We are facing an uphill fight here in the PRM and a bit of Brady Bunch change could go a long way to seeing Maryland return to America one day.
I vote for buying the house across the street from Shannon in Zionsville, IN and using it as the “corporate HQ” for a pro-gun group. . . and then putting nice large bulletin boards up with calls for Shannon to come out and have coffee with me. . . .
Donate it to Ben Shapiro.
Vote for the CCDL! They are fighting a very expensive lawsuit to restore CT citizens rights. If it goes well it might help other states get their lost rights restored!
I see no reason to give it all to one outfit.
How about establishing an annual prize of $10,000 to be awarded to the person or organization with the most significant achievement that advanced the 2nd Amendment in the last year?
Make it a selectable field on their checkout form to discourage ballot-box-stuffing (i.e., purchase required to vote), if they want to be irreverent, call the contest “Give Away the Brady Bunch’s Money!”
That check should be enough to keep it going for at least a decade.
Donate that much ammo to 4H, or the Appleseed Project or some other organization that teaches the next generation of young shooters
Appleseed Project! Let’s use the money to teach the next generation of shooters!
Here’s what I sent to LG:
Congratulations for standing up to Brady!
I have a different suggestion for how to use any money you recover that you want to use to further 2nd amendment rights.
Don’t just donate it. This will be more work, but I suggest spending it on kids. Partner with other pro-gun organizations to organize and fund shooting sports programs in schools. Find schools in the deepest blue Brady strongholds and introduce kids to guns. When they learn guns are safe and fun, they’ll be less intimidated by them. Start a whole new generation of ‘lucky gunners’.
NJ 2A WE need help! (Psychiatric) not so much.