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At least one offender took hostages at the popular Lindt chocolate cafe, in Martin Place, just before 10am. Some members of staff could be seen wearing their shop aprons and standing with their hands up at the windows. There is also a black and white flag being held up in a window. It is believed to be the Black Standard, a jihadist flag.” This, in certifiably gun-free Sydney, Australia. “We don’t yet know the motivation of perpetrator, we don’t know whether it’s politically motivated although there are indications it could be,” said Prime Minister Tony Abbott. Yes, well that black standard now hanging in the window should provide a clue . . .

As should the fact that the jihadi scum running the show down under apparently had no trouble at all commandeering dozens of hostages in a country that has gone to great lengths to make sure that there’s virtually no chance that any law abiding citizens there would be armed.

Could the same thing happen here? Of course. Even given our Second Amendment freedoms, only a small percentage of the general population choose to avail themselves of the option of armed self defense. Though the good news is that number is growing every day. And as Nick highlighted earlier, support for protecting Americans’ natural, civil and Constitutional right to keep and bear arms is at historic highs.


Which just may have something to do with videos of infidels being de-nogginized by masked terrorists speaking the king’s English. Or scenes of aggressive affirmative shopping and smoking ruins in the heartland.

In the mean time, New South Wales Premier Mike Baird is doing his best Kevin Bacon imitation, trying to soothe the local populace:

“This is obviously a deeply concerning incident but all Australians should be reassured that our law enforcement and security agencies are well trained and equipped and are responding in a thorough and professional manner.”

We’re sure that will provide a great deal of comfort to Aussies if hostages become casualties. As someone once said — to no end of ridicule by those who of course know best — the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Let’s hope the hard men with the rifles figure out how to end this before heads begin rolling out the door of the chocolatier.

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  1. Most people live in a dream world. This wont ever happen to me.
    The sheeple of this country pay no mind to being self reliant.
    They all feel that in the minutes it takes for a cop to get there if at all.
    They don’t know it only takes seconds to be put in a bad way.

    This didn’t happen in Australia.. Someone’s making this all up!!! As we all know to well.
    There are NO guns in Australia so this isn’t really happening there today.

    • Plenty of guns here, I shoot every week. Ownership in Australia in fact is higher now than before the ban. They’re just hard to own, and almost impossible to carry. Police ministers, politicians etc are of course exempt from the ban.

      Edit: I should add that this event will add steam to our push for freedom to defend ourselves. I support our libertarian party (LDP) and look to them to lead a push on concealed carry in the wake of this situation.

      • So, if it is impossible to carry in Australia, what good is having one when it is sitting at home while you are held hostage in a business? It just re-enforces the idea that gun control is bogus on every level.

        • Even though I can’t have one on my person while out & about (unless hunting) it’s still good to have one in au. More owners = more pressure for sensible laws, both economic pressure & political.

      • Elliot,

        This might be the wakeup call that Australians need to change direction.

        I encourage you to direct your countrymen to the FACTS in some of the states in the United States. For example the states of Vermont and Maine perpetually have the lowest violent crime rates in the United States. And yet any Vermont resident who is 16 years old or older (and not a violent felon) can carry a concealed handgun in public without any license, permit, etc. Any Maine resident who is 21 or older (and not a violent felon) can obtain a license and carry a concealed handgun in public.

        Note that the violent crime rate in the states of Vermont and Maine are almost guaranteed to be lower than the violent crime rate in Australia. And there are virtually no negligent firearm discharges in either state. Of course residents who have no criminal record and are responsible enough to be armed in public actually commit all crimes at lower rates than police officers!

        In other words there really is no down side to having people being armed in public. The up side: just one armed patron at that café could have ended this hostage situation before it ever started.

      • “Ownership in Australia in fact is higher now than before the ban. They’re just hard to own, and almost impossible to carry.”

        These two sentences seem incompatible. Do you have actual number or a citation that my convince me otherwise?

        • I’d be willing to bet when the registration orders came to pass a whole lot of guns were lost in tragic boat accidents.

    • They should pass a law saying “taking hostage or hostages are not allowed” complete with signage posted at the doors…….that should stop things like these from happening ever again, right (sarcasm)?

  2. I can’t stand crowded places generally, but I went boldly among the throngs to complete my Christmas shopping. (And I found a brick of the new CCI subsonic).
    With Mr. Glock at my side.
    I refuse to be a victim like that.
    I hope the lowlife jihadi scumbag(s) get whacked by the good guys there.

  3. Only the unarmed are the victims? Why would they not try to storm into a police station and take hostages there? The world isn’t safe anymore.

  4. I work about 2 blocks from where this is happening. My building is on lockdown with only staff with ID cards allowed in.

    The nearest train station has been closed with trains on that line not stopping at Martin Place station. All other lines are operating normally.

    A few minutes ago 3 people managed to escape. I’m surprised the police haven’t already acted. How hard is it to toss in some stun grenades and secure the wannabe jihadi?

    This should have been a DGU.

      • Nice irony Allen. You probably already know this but for those reading; The religion of peace is actually translated as the religion of submission; by any means necessary. If that means you will have your head cut off or convert, well, let the heads start rolling.

    • The weapon is reported to be a shotgun (exact type unknown) produced from a blue bag or backpack.

      It can be guaranteed there WILL be backlash against the law-abiding-firearm-owners.

      The police do have to walk a fine line in making sure there is no harm to the hostages and the criminal is not turned into a martyr.

      • Given that there are also witnesses that think it was a pistol, my guess that it is a sawed off shotgun with no stock.
        In other words, it’s likely to be an illegal gun.
        I’m sure there are still going to be pushes for further restrictions by the Greens, fortunately the recent senate inquiry has ended so the handgun ban, or “inquiry into Australian police’s ability to prevent gun violence” won’t get anymore steam because of this.

    • So it’s just one man with a shotgun and a machete? How many hostages are left inside? Do you Aussies know the term “bum rush”?

  5. Outcome 1: the jihadist has a self-loading weapon and killed many before the event ends

    Outcome 2: the jihadist has a manual-loading weapon and killed many before the event ends.

    Outcome 3: the jihadist has a machete and killed many before the event ends.

    Outcome 4: the jihadist has a small dick and surrendered after assault team arrives.

    Result: more anti-gun and Muslim friendly (anti-Christian) laws proposed in the USA.

    Call me a prophet.

    • This is What Happens to a Disarmed Populace: They’re Taken Hostage by Jihadists

      This Is What Has Happened Since The Dawn of Islam, To Every Country Naive Enough To Let Muslims In.

      Fixed it fer ya….

        • I’m so sick of hearing people say “well Christians are just as bad!” How many times a day do you hear about Christians beheading or killing others in any way?!? The one time in history that was bloody was the crusades and who do you think they were killing? MUSLIMS!! I personally would love another crusade and think Christians need to start getting bloody again or there won’t be any left!

        • Soccerchainsaw,

          Please provide examples of widespread Christian doctrine/efforts mirroring Islamic jihadists. I have not found any examples.

          If you are referring to the Crusades of the Middle Ages, they were a direct response to savage widespread Muslim attacks in the countries that ring the western, southern, and eastern shores of the Mediterranean Sea. In the eternal words of an 8 year old, they (Muslims) started it.

          • Oop, there it is. Either accept reality or reality will crush you, in the form of muslim hegemony. They love death more than we love life, or so they keep screeching, effeminately. Time to make a choice.

        • No argument there. Christianity has gone past this “phase” and is now at the place where people pick and choose tidbits and happy thoughts and say they “believe”. They ignore that the OT/NT is filled with instructions to kill anyone who doesn’t believe, and take all their stuff. And women. Then burn the town to the ground. Not to mention killing gays, fortunetellers, anyone who says bad things about their parents, etc.

          Islam is in the same stage as Christianity was a millenia ago. The problem is these delusional religious idiots are far more dangerous in a world with instant communication, and modern weaponry. They really do believe there’s some paradise waiting for them on the other side, and that’s really dangerous for the rest of the world.

        • Well, Soccerchainsaw. I’m a baptized Christian. Initially, Christ was here to challenge the Jewish Powers That Be in their abuse of their positions and the use of the Jewish religion for their own personal aggrandizement and to bring the new word of G-d to the people.

          He was a liberator and a rebel against the corrupt power system of the time. Then, in time, Christianity was taken on as the state religion and all the abuses of those in power in using it for their own aggrandizement.

          Now, for the last hundred years, the current Powers That Be, based on the idea of no god, are using this belief system of no god to control the people and commit mass murder. The hundred of millions in Russia and China, among many other examples of the mass murder of godless communism/Marxism around the world and the fifty million babies murdered in this country.

          And currently Islam is still in the place of convert, submit or die. So it isn’t religion per se that murders a whole lotta people to exert control. It is just what system of thought is being used by The Powers That Be to rally “the people” to commit mass murder in trying to expand their sick need for power.

          Currently, I see Christianity as once again freeing the people from the corrupt power system that is currently in place, which is why it is so viciously attacked by both the ‘godless ones’ as well as by those in Islam.

        • “No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!” Duh duh duuuuhhhhh…… (apologies to Monty Python)

          “She’s a witch, she turned my into a newt….. I got better.”

          “HEY everyone, it’s time to drink the holy koolaid!”

          “Onward Christian soldier, marching as to war….”

          That’s just off the top of my head, no google-fu yet. Some would say that anti-semitic atrocities were rooted in/enabled by Christians wanting to punish Jews for insisting Jesus be put to death.

          The main point being that none of us are too far away from doing monstrous acts. All it takes is a little push….

      • No question 16V. The old testament and current Islam is very similar in the commandment to kill any Jew/ Muslim violating the Jewish/Muslim laws. It is also similar in that when attacking and conquering enemies of the Jewish/Muslim people; that they were/are allowed to take slaves, pillage and plunder to their hearts content.

        But that was what Christ was there to correct. Which is why he said to the crowd that was going to stone the accused adulteress, “He who is without sin, cast the first stone”. and no one could cast any stones.

        This is why it’s called the “New Testament”.

        • Actually, that’s why it’s called the Holocaust, the Pogroms, the Auto-da-fe, the Edict of Expulsion, the Inquisition . . . . because every religion claims to be the Religion of Peace just before it cuts your head off.

        • Sorry Ralph. You are letting your blind hatred of all those that believe in a G-d to blind you to most of what I wrote.

          Let me reiterate.

          The CURRENT Powers That Be are using the belief in no god, ie no “religion”; to lead the “useful idiots” (Stalins term for those followers that believe in no god) in the murder of over two hundred million people in the last hundred years.

          So the “useful idiots” with their blind hatred of those that believe in a G-d, are blind to the mass slaughter instigated by those in power that believe in no god but themselves.

        • Except ThomasR, The imaginary Jesus fellow, says many times (through the ‘Apostles’ who wrote about him a century after he supposedly existed) that all of the OT laws are to be followed until ‘the end days’…

          “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19)

          “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

          “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

          There’s several more. Shall I quote them?

  6. Dis-arming VICTIMS makes no sense.

    Just like our big government keeps out drugs they feel they can do the same with guns.

    Damn Liberals, don’t even love their own kids!

  7. So what we are saying is, if you take away all the evil firearms, people still want to hurt other people? This is NOT what Diane Feinstein said would happen. (sarcasm implied).

  8. So, this “Black Standard” is like the modern day Jolly Roger.
    Can we come up with a more derogatory name for it?

    • Bacon, bacon, bacon, Mohammed was a baby raper bacon lover flag?
      I was gonna say, don’t get me started, but it’s too late.

      • Now, now. The Prophet Mohammed was not a baby raper. 9 year olds are not babies. He was a complete pedophile though.

        The Qu’ran and Hadditha sanction marrying children, and fatwahs from prominent Imans still have no problem with the practice. Welcome back to the 8th Century!

  9. “We don’t yet know the motivation of perpetrator…”

    If the IS flag isn’t enough of a clue, they’ll figure it out when they storm the place only to find all the hostages beheaded. Of course, they’ll still say they don’t know the motivation because admitting the truth would be Islamaphobic.

    • The police are merely public servants carrying guns and looking tacticool for the cameras.

      Everything they do or say has to pass through a filter of political correctness.

  10. The only way this ends well is if the swat guys have been given a green light next time he looks out the window like he was pictured. Unfortunately for the hostages the look that was on his face is of a evil man with evil on his heart, not that of a scared recent convert who would be in this for the publicity. The Aussie government is just as bad as ours with the political correct b.s. saying the motive is not yet clear while there is a muslim flag being held by the soon to be cranialy departed. Situations like these should be resolved by force by deliberate men instead of dingo politicians.

  11. This could easily happen in Chicago. Even with conceal carry laws the number of legal carriers and legal PLACES to carry is absurdly low. BTW…so it it’s OK to type jihadi scum but not M####m scum on TTAG? Got it…

  12. I’m from Melbourne, Australia, but visit this cafe every time I’m in Sydney. It’s illegal for me to carry a defensive weapon. We don’t have the 2A rights. I’m former military and current law enforcement. Trained, qualified, and I shoot once a week, every week. Does this make any difference to my government?? Not. One. Bit. Fight for your rights at all costs, or you’ll end up like us.
    PS – I never felt as safe as I did, walking around in public as I did in Texas. USA for ever!

    • Tanker,

      You wrote, “We don’t have the 2A rights.” Actually, as a human being, you do indeed have the unalienable right to keep and bear arms for self-defense. The real problem is that your government and fellow police officers have declared their intent to kill anyone who insists on exercising that right.

      That begs the question, why would government and police want to kill their fellow people for exercising their rights?

      • Excellently stated, uncommon_sense! Tanker, I hope you lot can get your Government to restore your right to exercise your natural right to keep and bear Arms soon.

    • Murderous Muslims need to be dealt with quickly through the immediate use of deadly force. The libtards amongst us, even here at TTAG, decry “you’ll make him a martyr !”, but in reality a swiftly terminated practitioner of Islam will be an example of what NOT to do.

  13. Hmmmm….wonder if Jim Jefferies is at his Aussie home right now writing an anti-gun joke about this situation?

    • Hey diggler….why don’t you take your chicken hawk attitude to Syria or Iraq and show those foreigners what for ? I’m damn tired of American imperialism along with American blood and treasure being shed in foreign lands without undeclared war. Syria and Iraq are no business of FUSA’s. But you’d be happy to see us knee-deep in foreign and American blood there, wouldn’t you diggler ? Just so it’s not your blood or that of your loved ones. Correct ?

      • Dan dropping bombs should be what every country does to kill the vermin of the world. If not, those vermin spread like they are now….so you want to sit back and let them filter in everywhere or wait until they kill people here and just do what then exactly?!

      • That’s why you take off and nuke the place from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. I’m sure Russia and China would be more than happy to help turn every square inch of the middle east outside the borders of Israel into a plan of glass.

        • Game over, dude. Game over!!!

          Love those movies, too bad they were produced, directed and starred in by a bunch of anti-gun leftards.

      • Hey Dan (numbrs): suck it – here is some info about the gunman/hostage taker:

        The Australian jihadist Man Haron Monis was out on jail for the honor murder of his former wife. She had been stabbed and set alight.

        Further, on 14 March 2014, Haron was arrested and charged with sexually and indecently assaulting a young woman.

        He led a disgusting letter writing campaign to the families of fallen soldiers. The letters compared “the (deceased soldier) son to a pig and to a dirty animal.

        Haron was born Manteghi Bourjerdi in Iran where, as an ayatollah, his liberal interpretation of Islam led to the detention of his wife and children. Bourjerdi fled Iran to Australia in 1996 as a refugee, and changed his name to Man Haron Monis, assuming the title of Sheikh Haron.

        and the only way you deal with these wackos from the “religion of peace” is thru superior firepower. . . . drop more JDAM’s. . . ..

        • Had to look up “JDAM’s”. Thank you. God, I love this site. I learn something new – every single time I visit.

          Awesome. Yes. Drop more JDAM’s.

        • ” . . .and the only way you deal with these wackos from the “religion of peace” is thru superior firepower. . . . drop more JDAM’s. . . ..”

          What you said +1000. Those people want to kill us. If we don’t get them, they will come for us. Fortunately, we are very, very good at “getting” them.

  14. I am armed 99% of the time because I refuse to be jammed up against a window to be someones political statement.

    I will not be a hostage, not as long as I draw breath.

  15. As of this AM the Aussie cops are still pretending it is a disgruntled________, not a terrorist. Funny how that works.

    • I don’t see what the difference is. Someone is holding hostages at gun point for some idiotic reason. That is aggression of the first order. Best way to take care of it is to give him some extra body cavities.

      Unfortunately all those people will look as at the gun and think “Why are you doing this to this poor man? He has no control. We need to be rid of you and your ilk.”

  16. Really, Omer? You not being able to find a difference IS the problem.

    And Dan? You need to figure out what your thing is, clearly. Pick one and stick to it.

  17. Until now, nobody has been seriously harmed. If there were more weapons in this situation, there would be like 5 hostages, 3 police-men and 1 terrorist dead.

    I don’t know how you people think, you can prevent voilence with even more voilence.. But nature will resolve this automatically. Just use your guns in any situation and you will see how long you’re staying.

    • You’re an idiot. We had a Jihadi incident only a month ago in the US. What happened? Clown got shot by a random civilian with a gun and the only people who got injured were the ones the durka durka got to before good guy with a gun could react.

      • And exactly THAT’s the problem. Every random guy can shoot you. Do you trust everyone on the streets? I don’t.

        In the US you have gun-incidents every day. Don’t you think this COULD be caused by guns? Hmmmm… I think it’s caused by…. Hmm.. Hmmm..

        In the place I live it’s good to know, that nobody has a gun on themselves. You can safely walk anywhere and there is a gun-incident like once a year.

        • Ok… So you decided to double down on idiocy. Good to know. Making guns illegal does not make them unavailable. If you’re walking down the street, anybody likely to shoot your is still likely to shoot you, law or no law. If the law against shooting you is not going to stop them, do you thing a law against owning guns will? In a free country, at least you have the ability to defend yourself. That’s why our “lone wolf” incident ended with a ventilated Durka Durka and a minimum of civilian casualties.

          If you don’t consider that a good thing, then you should feel free to move your ass down to Syria and get a head shorter. Given your lack of use for the contents of said head, it would be a vast improvement.

          Quite frankly, I’m beginning to think Australia would have been better off if we left it to the Japanese.

        • Actually, pwrsurge, this clown tripled down on his idiocy. He’s claiming that the problem is “caused by guns” (a direct quote). An inanimate object causes things. Riiight.

    • You don’t prevent violence with more violence….you prevent it through deterrence. It has been proven time and time again that states with the strictest gun control laws have the highest crime and murder rates, but just keep ignoring the facts….good to know the MDA trolls are reading the site. You may accidently learn something.

    • Typical ‘Sheep-Think’. You have been conditioned to believe that. Essentially brainwashed. Led to believe that by your ideologue puppet-masters. I pity you… Yes, that is exactly how more violence is prevented, with violence (and deterrence). What do you think the Police do – talk to criminals and terrorists and hold their hands until they stop? The problem is that the Police do it after the fact, when an armed citizen can potentially protect themselves before they get their head carved (or their family killed, assaulted, etc). But no one will convince you of course, because you are brainwashed, led to be a victim, so I will save my fingers any more typing and only leave you with one thought: “Behind each blade of grass”.

      • Haha, Untiss – You might be the only darn fool I know that would NOT want a chance to defend themselves (and their family, fellow citizens, etc) if an ISIS terrorist walked in. Good luck with that! They really convinced you that it’s safer to just be a helpless victim, huh? Maybe ISIS will have mercy on you – is that what you’re hoping for? Perhaps you should read up on some real life experiences of women who have been assaulted and learned that they have the right NOT to be a victim. Not sure what would convince you though… I guess there are just sheep in this world…. Sure, in a perfect world, we’d all be holding hands and there would be no threats or bad people, but hate to break it to you – we aint in a perfect world. In fact, far from it.

      • There is no need to protect myself with voilence, because I live in a really save place on this planet. And there is no need for armoured civillians to get this level of security.

        You prefer to turn your home to a warzone. Feel free, do whatever you like!

        • Yeah…

          1. Look up the difference between armed and armored.
          2. Violent crime happens anywhere. It happens more in places with criminals who know their victims have no ability to defend themselves.

        • Haha, that is called ‘reducto absurdum’, by the way…. I of course do not choose violence or to live in a warzone. That’s a pretty frail, silly and immature ‘argument’. I choose to retain my right to be able to defend my family if God forbid I ever have to, and not leave myself no other choice than to be a victim. My house and my town are anything but a warzone. And we like to keep it that way. You choose to have no option other than to be a victim, hoping others WITH GUNS will defend you if ever needed. I am the most non violent person you will ever know. But if you choose to put yourself on a pedestal of delusion, then so be it.

        • You are a liar. You live in security because you expect OTHER people to sacrifice themselves to protect you. F**k you.

    • What you are really saying is that YOU are helpless, powerless and defenseless. That YOU in this situation would be cowering on the floor begging for your life. The YOU would not be capable of providing for your protection, let alone anyone else.

      But the reality is We are the end result of millions of years of being the best at fighting and successfully surviving much worse than some religious fanatic with a shot gun.

      With a willingness to accept responsibility as a mature adult, you to have the same capability as your ancestors had in defeating much worse than a lone nut with a gun.

      Embrace your protector, embrace the genetic ability of “Fight or flight”. Instead of running from who you could be, fight to be what you already are.

      The top predator/protector on the planet.

        • Wow, so ThomasR is the one who created all the wars and is to blame for Terrorists? Or is it all of ‘us’ (ie – those who don’t agree with YOUR particular position on this issue)? I don’t think you’re worth conversing with anymore honestly. Your only comebacks seem to indicate your immaturity and desire to paint everything in black and white, and blame those who do not agree with you for everything. Maybe you should go visit Huff Po and get some ‘comfort food’ now. I’m out.

        • …so the terrorists didn’t have a stage on 9/11? Or was that ‘all our fault’ too? Wow, I wonder what you think of the Framers of the Constitution. We support our second amendment rights to be able to defend ourselves, our families and our Freedom, if ever God forbid we have to — The ability to defend ourselves against evil. I’m sorry to hear that so offends you, but grow up already. The 12 year old whiny stuff is pretty transparent and lacking of any logic.

          • Cold? The US Constitution does not “give” any rights, nor does any government. Those are rights you get from the simple act of being born. The Constitution simply guards them against government interference. Or at least it did. The issue is in question.

        • True,

          When an entire culture believes in peace and harmony, it protects them from violent people or violent nations that want to invade them, like the spiritual masters the Tibetan Buddhists .

          Oh, wait a minute, China invaded them without a fight and over a million Tibetans have been slaughtered by the invaders. Oops.

          But when a culture arms every adult male and trains them as citizen soldiers then they will be at constant war and endless fighting like Switzerland. L

          Oh, wait a minute, Switzerland had been at peace for over a hundred years, even when surrounded by the worst world wars this planet has ever seen.

          Darn it, your theory doesn’t seem to be supported by fact, history or experience.


        • Okay ThomaR, I’m obligated in owning a weapon and I’ve done military service, like every other male in our country. I’ve been professionally trained to use this thing. But this doesn’t mean I’m going to use this for personal defense. I think the less weapons are owned by random people, the risk of incidents is decreased. If everyone can buy such a tool, then it’s uncontrolled and misused (as you can see on your news-channels).

        • Wow, c*ntiss, you really told us!!!! We are such pieces of sh*t, defending our lives and the lives of our spouses and children with evil violence!!!! We should all be rounded up and reeducated!!!! Yes, just like you nazis did top the Roma, and Czechs, and those dirty Jooos you hate so much. F*ck you, c*ntiss.

        • I see I feel sorry for you. You truly see people at your level; you know, regular subjects, (because you obviously don’t see yourself as a free citizen) as being incapable of using a weapon wisely or responsibly.

          “Only the government can have the “monopoly of Force” . And so it continues, the one body proven not to be able to handle the power of absolute control of the monopoly of force, hundred of millions of deaths later, and counting; is the one you believe is the only one that should have it.

          Oh well. What are you going to do? Just keep telling the truth and hopefully something will stick.


          So, How’d your disarmament theory work out for 1MM Rwandans? Not to mention 50MM Soviets. Leaving alone the Chinese, and…

          I’m sorry that you’re poorly educated, or just have no grip on understanding statistics and probability. The science always proves that your theory is incorrect. So, why do you continue to believe? Ignorance, or naivté?

    •, Did you sit down and draw a flow chart of how to be entirely wrong about this? You must have because no one could be naturally as incorrect as you are.

      • Yes, I thought about it. I’m on an extremist website here, so it’s no wonder noone agrees with me.

          • Apparently all responses directed to are being scrubbed. Wonder why that is?!?!? Just encase that leftarded c**t is still reading, f**k you.

            JQP? You I am liking.

        • You betcha, buckwheat… I am EXTREMELY determined to maintain my ability to defend myself, and I am EXTREMELY not interested in being killed, robbed, raped or beheaded. Thank you very much.

          If those things seem like a good plan for your life, go for it.

        • Well, as long as you are being deliberately wrong-minded you are exercising your right to speak freely and join a long, long list of those who speak wrongly.
          Insofar as your description of this being an “extremist website”…that’s your opinion. It’s wrong and I hope you will see a better perspective.

          Your basic premise that we “extremists” propose to fight violence with violence does not reflect what we are actually saying. You think we want to throw gasoline on the fire. We are saying don’t let the fire get started in the first place, but if it does be prepared to extinguish it quickly and effectively.

          Maybe you ought to actually draw out that flow chart and discover how wrong you are for yourself.

        • PS – If slapping labels (such as ‘extremist’) on people who disagree with your (current) beliefs helps you to justify your own position to yourself, then so be it. But don’t be deluded in thinking that it’s anything other than that.

        • TTAG is an extremist website? Wow, you must not get out much. When you have a site visited by people who can describe their opinions with the kind of lucidity commonly seen here, it’s hardly extremist. Actually, we are the mainstream. And you are not.

        • In my opinion it is an extremist website:
          1. I’ve got a bad feeling when visitig this site, there’s always the feeling to get to a “weapon-fanatic” list, which I don’t want to be. If something happens, probably this fact can be used against me.
          2. Open your eyes: The weapon-lobby in the U.S. doesn’t have such a good image on the rest of the world. Even your president wants to restrict you.
          3. It’s not mainstream. Probably in your neighborhood, but take a look to the rest of the world.
          4. You are weapon-fanatics, that’s a riskful attribute.

        • Just wanted to say: If you don’t want to be on any automatically generated possible-terrorist-lists in the future. Leave your fingers from weapons.

          It’s your opinion. Goodbye.

        • Yes, we are human beings, and we are quite extreme about defending our children, spouses, livestock and property against terrorist c*nts like you.

    • So, if the hostage takers kill all the hostages, you think that is better? Even in your very unlikely worst case imagination, people die because of the hostage takers/attackers, not because guns are present.

      Each and every hostage, terror, random shooting/knifing/baseball bat attack ends when SOMEONE stops the attacker, one way or another, but usually with a gun. Or the attacker kills himself when he sees he’s losing, usually with a gun. And, whatever happens to the aggressor, the consequences are his personal responsibility since he initiated the force and attacked others. His reasons, religion or origin are truly immaterial to that.

      The gun is not the problem, but in almost every terror/attack situation… one way or another- the gun IS the solution. Not nice, not comfortable, not friendly, and with serious consequences for everyone involved, but that is the story of life in general much of the time.

      At some point, you must accept the fact that utopia is not an option.

  18. So, I’m sitting in a Swiss chocolate shop in downtown Sydney, Australia. Where else in the world could I feel more safe? In comes a shotgun-toting terrorist. Where’s an Australian comedian when you need one?

  19. Looks like there has been a major exchange of gunfire in Sydney, AU, just minutes ago and the siege is over with the perpetrator probably dead and several hostages injured. Perpetrator identified as an Iranian immigrant of about twenty years with “ties to ISIS” and that his FB Page contained a pledge to ISIS to become a martyr for them.

    I don’t really expect in the long run that Americans possibly being armed will deter these ISIS Murderers because, for them, death in the name of their iteration of God is a sacred act. When a person enters into an act of violence expecting/wanting to die for a belief or ideal, the outcome for hostages or victims is not generally good.

    My sympathies to the people of Australia. Hopefully, this incident will change the minds of ordinary people about their Gun Laws so they can elect Representatives that will restore their Gun Rights.

    • That one is worth repeating: “My sympathies to the people of Australia. Hopefully, this incident will change the minds of ordinary people about their Gun Laws so they can elect Representatives that will restore their Gun Rights”

    • Except that as recent history in the US demonstrates, armed self defense is just as effective as armed deterrence. Or did we forget how quickly that durka durka was ventilated a few months ago?

      • I agree that there are two ways of looking at this, as you have pointed-out. I don’t think either will dissuade Jihadists in the U.S. in the long run. Deterrent factor won’t stop them and self-defense factor is what they expect, so, if anything, it might prompt them to be more vicious in the first place. Their goal is to kill “infidels” and their expectation is to die a martyr and be greatly rewarded for their martyrdom. Tough combination to deal with.

        • Not difficult at all, simply give them what they say they want, death. They tell us that they will destroy us because we love life less than they love death. OK. Give them what they claim to want. And be absolutely certain they understand that you will use THEIR “god’s” laws to ensure that they are never allowed into their “paradise”. Then see how fast islam evaporates.

    • I doubt that this “incident” will be any thing more than a “disgruntled employee” unhappy with his retirement benefits.

      Kind of like Major Hasan, while screaming “Allahu Akbar” while mowing down disarmed soldiers at Fort Hood, was also just a “disgruntled Employee”.

      It’s all about the “narrative”. It’s more important than the truth.

      • Check your favorite National/Worldwide News Source. This guy was known to the Aussie Authorities as an Islamic Radical and ISIS sympathizer. The Australians are being pretty up front about this unlike our Government was with Hassan, but at the same time the Aussies are not officially saying “It was terrorism”, so you may be entirely correct as it will turn-out.

        • I would be truly shocked if the government of Australia officially recognized this as an Islamic motivated terrorist event.

          If they did; I would have a faint hope that reality actually could overcome delusion and western civilization might actually have a faint chance of survival.

          • The Aussies are dithering around about it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they back away from calling it a “terrorist attack”, either.

            However, an Australian Political Pundit was saying that he is seeing more and more ordinary folks beginning to question their Government’s Policies on gun ownership and personal defense, and a couple of people from Australia have commented here reflecting similar attitudes and reporting that people they know feel the need for change. So, their might be a glimmer of hope in the Land of OZ.

    • “I don’t really expect in the long run that Americans possibly being armed will deter these ISIS Murderers because, for them, death in the name of their iteration of God is a sacred act.”
      Then give them what they say they want. Without pity, remorse or mercy.

      • Yes, that’s pretty much how it has to be, besides they intend to kill any of us they can for the glory of their God, so take them out first and maybe they go to Hell for their failure.

        • Have to take their “god’s” rules and apply them to muslims, loudly and publicly, before there will be a change in their behavior. Till then? SSDD.

          • What would constitute “to take their “god’s” rules and apply them to muslims” ? Seems to be a lot of mixed information on this subject. Just trying to clarify for my own information. It’s okay if you don’t want to be specific because given how they treat “infidels”, I am guessing the treatment of the “failed faithful” would be pretty gruesome.

            • Here is a start,, by no means all encompassing or unbiased. Simply put, muslims believe they will only be accepted by their “god” in to “paradise” if they meet certain criteria, and desecration of their remains is the big road block to eternal bliss, and is something they have no control over. Such a simple thing, and the truly devote are terrified of it. Why do we not use this weapon against such an enemy of the human race? Been studying this 40 years and I still don’t get it.

              • Thanks very much, 2hotel9! I appreciate the link and will read through it. Knowledge IS power. It seems we Americans may have issues to overcome, as evidenced by the outcry over the Senate Report describing the “torture” used by the CIA in the aftermath of 9/11.
                When it first came clear to me what ISIS is and how they operate last Spring I wrote, “I am not so much scared of what ISIS will do to us as I am scared of what they will force us to become to deal with them.” I still feel that way, but I am realizing it is an empty concern because we face an enemy that will not allow us to show them any mercy or consideration and will certainly show none whatsoever to us. It is a grim prospect, but it arises from hard facts. So it goes.

              • What we become is the masters of our own fate. Cowering in fear of the words of our enemies has not served us well, so far, it has lead to our nation rapidly falling into chaos. Our enemies domestic see how our enemies foreign hold us in utter contempt and have accordingly adopted these successful tactics inside our borders. Organized violence, i.e. terrorism, is next on their agenda. Look at the success they have had in the last 30 days.

                Fact is desecration of muslim terrorists is an effective weapon against them. And yes, torture DOES work. Just ask John McCain.

  20. They (Police and I suspect a number of SASR) just entered and I’m guessing smoked the Tango, that being said Australians will never have the right to carry firearms for defense or be allowed to use them for defense.

  21. Only commenting because there’s so much wrong here.

    And, what you need to remember is our population is tiny compared to yours.

    This is what happens to a disarmed populace (see below):

    They have had fewer than 50 gun homicides per year in the last 10 years, sometimes fewer than 20. Handgun murders are virtually nonexistent. Mass shootings – after the one in 1996, which triggered the gun ban – are literally nonexistent (there had been an average of about 2 every 3 years in the two decades before that). Hostage situations are rare and handled by trained professionals (the one today, garnering worldwide headlines, resulted in 2 deaths; in the US that’s a traffic stop). Since the ban – on just *some* guns (semiautomatic rifles) – was enacted, homicide rates have plummeted and suicide rates have fallen even faster. Today, Australia, with a population about 1/12th that of the US, has literally about 1/1,000th the rate of gun-caused deaths per capita.

    That’s what happens.

    • “the one today, garnering worldwide headlines, resulted in 2 deaths; in the US that’s a traffic stop”

      Apparently misconceptions aren’t limited to one side of the Pacific. Most US cops don’t draw their guns on duty in their careers.

      I’ll also note that homicide rates in Australia were falling even before the gun ban. Did mention that?

      Oh, and what’s your overall homicide rate? If someone kills me, I personally don’t particularly care which means they use to do it. And how does your overall homicide and violent crime rate stack up to demographically-comparable US populations? (Hint: just because Australia has a similar population to NYC, that doesn’t mean that they are demographically comparable.)

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