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“A Tulsa man fighting for his life in the hospital after confronting two men who may have been breaking into cars at an apartment complex near 41st and Garnett,” reports. “Tulsa police got to the Creekside Apartments around 4 a.m. Saturday and learned that two men shot at several neighbors at the apartment complex.”

Before we delve into the details, an important point to remember: nothing good happens after 1am. While partying like a rock star into the wee hours of the morning is one of life’s joys, the later it gets, the more dangerous the world becomes.

Neighbors told police there have been several car break-ins there so this early this morning a few of them went outside to see if anything was stolen.

The neighbors started talking with the two men when one of the men pulled out a rifle and started shooting at the neighbors, police said.

“The victims were being vigilant and trying to protect their property is what it sounds like, and suspects produced a weapon and began to fire,” said Tulsa Police Sgt. Jeff Edwards.

Officers used a tourniquet to help stop the bleeding [ED: something you should always have in your car and/or at home], but they said the injury is life-threatening.

Vigilance is good. Going out to “talk” to thieves? Not so good — regardless of whether you’re packing or not.

If you see a crime (or a potential crime), call the police. It’s their job to take care of it. Not yours. That said, there are times when you might decide to act before the boys and girls in blue can respond. Say if you’re in a rural area. Or if a woman’s being raped.

Even if you decide to investigate or intervene to protect property or innocent life, call the police as soon as humanly possible, preferable before you act. The call makes you the good guy. An absolutely critical factor if push comes to shove.

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    • And when the police show up, guns drawn, shouting commands to put the gun down and get on the ground, be sure to refuse those commands and add in a whole bunch of abundantly and obviously threatening, menacing movements in response.

      Sure, you’re apt to be ventilated on the spot, but hey, you’ll have police haters desperate for a poster boy, any poster boy, singing your praises on blogs. So there is that.

  1. Depends on the place and situation. I used to live in a remote desert town and the average sheriff’s deputy response was more than an hour. I once reported a man beating a woman at the crossroads where I lived. They left the area within a few minutes… and the cop showed up to “investigate” the report…. FOUR hours later. I wasn’t even tempted to take a gun out there and try to deal with it.

  2. The problem is Robert, the police don’t always respond with much enthusiasm. Some places they don’t respond at all.

    If this nonsense with the blacks and the police continues and Trump loses, I see no-responses for these kind of calls the “new normal” within 2-3 years. Interrupt the burglary–> get shot at–> shoot the perp –> riots and you’re told it’s your fault. Who would risk a department shakedown by the DOJ to stop a car burglary?

    Robert’s right. We’re living in the golden age of calling the police because in 2016 they will still show up most of the time in most places. Take advantage of it before they quit coming. Soon you will have to deal with it yourself.

    • HRC can not be elected (though she might be). Her winning is simply unacceptable if we are to be any semblance of a free country going forward.

      Thankfully we have enthusiasm on our side since many people deeply dislike the woman and she’s not terribly popular with Democrats either.

    • The problem is Robert, the police don’t always respond with much enthusiasm.

      This! They’re going to show up long after to file a report while all your stuff gets stolen. Bandits will get away, and you can smile and rest assured that you called the police.

    • “Take advantage of it before they quit coming. Soon you will have to deal with it yourself.”

      Some jurisdictions officially police pursuits of criminals who commit property crimes. So, if the bad guy is seen by the cops driving your car, after having robbed your house, they won’t chase him down. The criminals know the cops ain’t commin’.

  3. There is a very autistic fellow a couple doors down from me. He is often quite disruptive. I imagine the day is coming when someone calls the police on him and he will leave wearing a body bag.

    • I’ve dealt with cops and autistics as a result of my last job. In my experience cops are amazingly tolerant of the special needs folks. They may get pepper sprayed, tazed or dog piled, but they don’t get shot often.

      Autistics can get very violent, I’ve seen one drag his mother down the street by her hair al;l the while kicking her head. It took a number of us to force him to the ground. They don’t seem to feel the pain as we do.

      • It is a scientific fact that some autistic people do not fee pain in the normal way. I have seen kids rock themselves to sleep beating their head against concrete walls, hard enough they bleed, and yet they still do it.

        Because of their pain tolerance, they cannot be disciplined like a normal child. You would literally kill them before they stopped. And they will attack in painful ways because they don’t feel pain and so they don’t have empathy.

        Also, with no impulse control to stop them, they can’t be made to “calm down”. They will injure themselves fighting against restraints. The solution is often to withdraw, allow the situation to be defused, and then calmly reapproach them. Backing off and giving somebody five minutes to get back to normal is better than pushing a bad situation.

        Autistic kids (and the adults they become) require a different kind of patience. It is heartbreaking to see.

      • In my experience cops are amazingly tolerant of the special needs folks.

        Unless you are Dorner’s ex-partner, Teresa Evans. Then it’s ok to kick them in the face while they are handcuffed and lying down on the ground.

        • I don’t judge all AR users by adam lanza and I don’t judge all cops by the idiots amongst their ranks. In my work and private life I’ve had more positive interactions with cops than negatives.

        • @jwm. I agree that all cops are not bad, but I dont let the good ones get away with no blame. When they cover for the bad ones and dont actively try to get rid of them I feel they carry some of the blame for what the bad ones do. The us verses them attitude goes both ways.

        • “I agree that all cops are not bad, but I dont let the good ones get away with no blame.”

          That is a pretty ironic statement… So you give the good cops grief because of the bad ones, but you get upset when a cop treats you badly because there are bad guys on the streets? That is foolishness at its finest, Mike.

          A “good” cop wouldn’t be covering up for a corrupt cop, and in similar fashion, just because you don’t agree with their actions doesn’t mean that they are corrupt. Additionally, just because they disagree with your judgment of the actions of their peers doesn’t mean that they are defending a corrupt cop. They may know something about the situation, law or policy that you don’t. Just a thought.

  4. Property crimes, no. That’s what insurance and video cameras are for. We just had a guy named Nick tell his story here a couple of days ago. Chasing a hit and run dude got his 30 grand gun collection taken and a 25 grand legal bill.

    My neighborhood is full of small kids including 2 of my grandkids. I know most of the others. A threat to any of these kids will bring me and my gun out. I’ll let the lawyers sort it from there.

    • My idea as well. I put out NV trail cams around the front of my property after auto-breakins on our street a couple years ago. Many of my neighbors opt for the gun but I’m not interested in starting a gunfight over a broken window and some petty theft.

      If it’s not in your garage don’t put anything in your car you’re not willing to lose.

      I agree on the kids though. We have a lot of them here too and if you screw with one of them, well that’s what the rifles are for.

      A funny side story to those break-ins, they broke a window on my old Jeep and snagged my medical kit. Whoever it was came back a couple days later and left the bag, minus all the OTC meds in it, on the walkway next to my neighbors house. Freaking weird huh? Cops figure they thought the pills were oxy. I seriously hope someone was dumb enough to crush up and snort Immodium AD!

      • Someone stole my favorite denim jacket 30 or so years ago. I had a glass vial of white powder in the breast pocket. It was tiny glass spheres filled with hydrogen isotopes. I can’t remember what the combination was or how much was in them, but I often wonder if the thief snorted it. I suppose if it was mostly deutrium it wouldn’t have done much.

      • Anyone willing to steal someone else’s property is obviously a shit head. Maybe they were trying to cure themselves with your crushed up Imodium.

      • You don’t know how close you are to reality.
        Heroin addicts are using megadoses of Immodium to stave off withdrawal. The two drugs bind to the same receptors.

    • Guess I missed reading that one.

      But I agree. Property is usually replaceable, with a couple of caveats; and if you can afford it, you should really consider insuring it, no matter what “it” is.

      A burglar in my home isn’t a property protection issue. It’s a criminal presence that represents a clear and present danger to the people who have a right to be in my house.

  5. “If you see a crime (or a potential crime), call the police.”

    It would also be helpful to have an interesting book handy so that you will have something to occupy your attention until John Law arrives.

    That’s what happened to me, and many people just like me. Because when minutes count, the police are only hours away. Even in the city.

    • If I’ve got salt peter I think I’d use it to make gun powder, then use said gun powder to propel old-fashioned lead out of the shotgun instead…

  6. This is why you don’t confront and question someone you think is up to no good, especially if that version of no good is robbing parked cars. There’s nothing in my car worth my life, health, freedom or wellbeing. I’d damn sure have a rifle in hand if I chose to though. This is one of the few defensive scenarios where the victim could have chosen the terms of the fight, they didn’t, and now their life is forever changed

    • We all should have learned a big lesson from george zimmerman. If it ain’t life and death, don’t make it life and death.

  7. Once … My crazy army brother, exited the grocery store and witnessed a thief going through his belongings in his vehicle. He surprised him and beat him to exhaustion (the other guy’s exhaustion). Afterward, my brother robbed him, the thief. He was like, “let’s see how you like it, turn out your pockets.” After he turned everything over, he pounded him a bit more until he was lying on the pavement, then jumped in his truck and drove off.

    • And I’m okay with that result. The problem with not confronting somebody is that they have not been dis-incentivized to stop being a criminal. Getting beaten and robbed, or turned to room temperature, would do that.

      Imagine if murderers were hung promptly in public? I bet crime would go down. Unless law abiding citizens turn to crime to keep the numbers up. 😉

      • “The problem with not confronting somebody is that they have not been dis-incentivized to stop being a criminal.”

        Even worse they often escalate … which I suppose is kind of the same thing as what you already said with the catch-all word “criminal”.

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