“A Revolver? Really?” Yeah, I’ve heard that a time or two over the past years. Now I don’t hate automatic pistols. Really, I don’t. I own a very nice Glock that serves as my primary CCW weapon. But as I’ve said here before, an automatic pistol is a machine. A fine revolver, on the other hand, is a work of art.
Not only that, revolvers (like lever action rifles) are indefinably and unabashedly American. Oh, sure, there were German RGs and British Webleys, as well as a sprinkling of other revolving cylinder guns made in the late 19th and early 20th centuries in Europe, but revolvers persisted here in American long after the Euros and Asians had switched to semi autos. While French Gendarmes were equipped with Brownings and German Polezei were carrying Walther P1s or HK P7s, American cops were still packing their reliable Double Action wheelguns in the land of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”
My very first handgun was a revolver, a Colt Trooper Mk III. I’ve always had a weakness for a good revolver, and revolvers don’t get much better than the mid 50’s to Mid-80’s double-action K-frame Smith and Wessons.
For those shooters under 40 who may not be familiar with S&W products, they group their Double Action (DA) revolvers into categories based on frame sizes indicated by a letter of the alphabet. The smallest are the J-frames which are available in calibers up to .357 and are most popularly known as the type of snub-nosed pocket gun favored by TV detectives of the 60’s and 70’s.
At the opposite end of the spectrum is the terrifying X-frame, home to the massive .500 S&W. Next down is the large N frame, which carried both the legendary Model 29 in .44 Magnum of Dirty Harry fame (“feel lucky, punk?”), as well as the very first .357 Magnum cartridges (the Highway Patrol and similar types, later designated as the Model 27 and 28.) Slightly smaller is the large-but-not-gigantic L frame, which introduced the full-underlug 586 and 686 revolvers in the 1980s as a kind of “poor man’s Colt Python.”
And finally, continuing down we come to the medium K Frame. From roughly 1899 when it was introduced as the “Third Model Hand Ejector” until the late 1980’s when police departments began trading their revolvers for automatics, the K-frame was the most commonly used police and private security firearm, by a wide margin. Made in a variety of calibers from .22 through .357, the K-frame was the “standard” by which other revolvers were judged. Even Colt, with its legendary history of revolver making, never had more than a fraction of the K-frame’s market.
I’ve owned at least one K frame revolver since I was 22, and have a real affection for them. The size is big enough to feel stout and sturdy, but not so big as to be oversized or bulky. The factory grip frame (in either square or round butt configuration) is small enough to fit most hands and because of the K-frame’s near-century as top dog, aftermarket grip choices are virtually unlimited.
So it seems police departments and security firms are “modernizing” their arsenals and putting their old revolvers out to pasture. Which is good for people like me who love these old K-frame guns.
Initially, I thought a J-frame 642 would be the perfect home defense gun for my wife and I, so I bought one, new, at a local Big Box store. But a few sessions at the range disabused us of that notion. As Ralph points out in his review of the 642, it’s not a tool for a beginner. The small size of the 642, while making it very concealable, also makes it harder to control. For that reason, I put the 642 up for sale and started shopping for a K Frame. An old Army buddy put me on to J&G sales of Prescott, AZ. Apparently J&G has been buying up surplused-out guns for a while and selling them on-line.
Among their large S&W offerings were a dizzying variety of Model 64s. In S&W parlance, a “6” at the beginning of a model number denotes a stainless steel gun. The Model 64, then, is the stainless steel version of the blued Model 10: .38 Special caliber, fixed sights, 4” barrel.
Aesthetically, I have a preference for blue steel, and I live far enough from the coast for salt air to be a non-issue, but it’s hard to argue with the utility of a stainless finish. Besides which, the price was right: For a “Very good condition” 64, $289.00 + shipping was just too good a deal to pass up (go shopping for a new Smith and Wesson K-frame revolver and you’ll appreciate just what a deal that is.) $20 to my local FFL dealer later and I was the proud owner of one of Smith and Wesson’s finest.
These particular 64’s must have belonged to a nervous police department or risk-averse private security company, as all of them had been converted to Double Action Only (DAO), that is, it is not possible to manually cock the hammer. In fact, most of them have ‘bobbed’ hammers (with no hammer spur.) This is fine for me as DA is the only way such a revolver should be used for self defense anyway. The bobbed hammer also makes it easier to draw from concealment.
As for the caliber, some shooters turn their nose up at the “anemic” .38 Special, but as far as I’m concerned, it was good enough for the cops for the better part of the 20th century, so it’s good enough for me. I’m not looking to “blow [someone’s] head clean off” (in Dirty Harry parlance), I just want to be able to defend myself and my family. Given that .38 is more or less ballistically similar to 9mm, modern .38 Special HP rounds in +P configuration should be more than adequate for the task.
(A note on caliber: Some might say that you shouldn’t shoot +P rounds in a gun not specifically rated for them. If this were a pre-WWII M&P, or an extremely lightweight alloy gun like an older Airweight, I might agree. However, this is a stainless steel K-Frame revolver made some time in the 1970’s or 80’s. It has virtually the same frame as the Model 65 and 66, which will shoot full-power .357 Magnum loads. I also know that the +P round itself was specifically developed as a round for medium-frame police revolvers like this one. Based on that, I have no concerns about using +P rounds in this revolver.)
Upon inspection, it was obvious that this was a used gun. Not abused, but definitely not coddled, either. Scratches and small nicks abound, especially on the side of the (heavy) barrel. Of course, I knew I was getting a used gun and certainly didn’t expect a museum piece for under three hundred bucks. The good news was that the lockup was tight, there was no excessive play in the crane or in the cylinder, and the mechanism seemed to function properly.
The Naked Gun: Stripped of its Hogue grip, you can see the leaf spring that makes the K-frame such a smooth shooter
Taking it to the range, we found the trigger pull to be pleasantly smooth. Heavy, yes, long, yes, but smoooooooth like butter, just as a good K frame should be. We didn’t have time to do long range testing (and really, that would be like evaluating the trailer-pulling capability of a Miata) but for 7 yards, I’d have to say minute-of-bad-guy was as accurate as it needs to be. This one came with a finger-grooved Hogue Monogrip identical to the one I put on my Model 19. Not nearly as pretty as the gorgeous Goncalo Alves wood grip (that came on the 19 from the factory,) but much more comfortable and practical.
This one seemed to consistently group slightly to the left. All shots were offhand, rapid fire, from 7 yards, using a mix of handloaded 158gr Wadcutters and factory 158gr RN jacketed bullets. (disregard the “keyholes” at 6 and 9 o’clock on the above target, those were from a Taurus .22 that is having problems.)
Operation was flawless and there was no excessive “shaving” of rounds (and indication that a revolver is “out of time”, i.e., the cylinder is not lining up correctly with the bore.) The fixed sights, of course, are less than stellar, but adequate for self-defense, and unlike adjustable sights, these won’t snag on a pocket or shirt tail.
Overall it’s hard to beat this one for value. You can spend three hundred big boys on a POS High Point or a Spanish knockoff of a 1911, or you can spend it on a slightly used example of one of the finest defensive handguns ever made. Your choice.
SPECIFICATIONS
Model: Smith & Wesson Model 64
Caliber: .38 Special +P
Cylinder capacity: 6 rounds
Materials: Stainless Steel
Weight empty: 36 ounces (2.25 lb)
Barrel Length: 4″
Overall length: 9″
Sights: Integral front, fixed rear
Action: Double action only
Finish: Stainless
Price: $289 (used, Very Good condition from J&G Sales in Prescott, AZ) http://www.jgsales.com
RATINGS (out of five stars)
Style * * * * *
What can you say about the most classic DA revolver design of the (20th) century? This one is right up there with the M1911 and the Colt SAA as one of the most iconic and influential gun designs in history.
Ergonomics (carry) * * *
Not the greatest for concealed carry, though far from the worst. With the right kind of holster and a smooth grip (easily changed with a screwdriver) you can conceal one of these pretty easy beneath street clothes.
Ergonomics (firing) * * * * *
Large grip means easy to control. Heavy enough to absorb recoil but light enough not to fatigue even a novice shooter. Balance and handling are exquisite. This is an excellent beginner gun and much more “newbie friendly” than an automatic.
Reliability * * * * *
Pretty much every cop in the US carried some variation of this on his or her hip from the 1900’s all the way into the 1980s. It wouldn’t have lasted that long if not for its legendary reliability. No safety levers to fiddle with, no pesky locks, no loaded-chamber-indicator needed. There’s a reason Smith and Wesson has been called the world’s first “point and shoot” interface.
Customize This * * *
Depends on what you mean by “customize.” K-frame grips are probably the most commonly available revolver grips on the market, even two decades after its heyday. Laser grips are even available. And of course, for reloading, speedloaders are available.
Now, if you’re the sort of shooter who needs an ACOG, a ballistic computer, or a cup holder for your latte, well, never mind because you probably aren’t even reading this review.
OVERALL RATING * * * * *
As an unabashed revolver lover and an admitted Smith and Wesson bigot, my rating should be taken with a grain of salt. Put another way, I can’t recommend this pistol highly enough. Sure, It’s not as sexy as the latest plastic fantastic automatic but it will still be shooting when those polymer pistols have been relegated to the recycle bin.
AUTHOR’S NOTE: It’s gratifying to me to see all my fellow revolver lovers coming out of the closet in the comments below. For a while I was afraid this site was too 1911/Springfield/Glock-centric to welcome those of us who regard revolving cylinder guns as anything other than an anachronism.
I watched his videos because they were fun. Sometimes you learned something; but I am under 30 and the prospect of shooting “Zombie Beeches” or “Zombie Terrorist Dudes” still makes me laugh a little bit.
This more serious review style…I dunno; you have a million people doing those. Hicock45, Armory Channel, TNP , MAC to name a few.
Where else can I go to watch this guy take a tank through a McDonalds drive through?
A stellar review for a stellar gun. As a devoted S&W weenie, I agree with everything your wrote. Hell, I’d give the Model 64 an overall rating of 5 1/2 stars. Except for the incredible Colt Python, you can’t do better than a K-frame. At $289, shoot it like you stole it, ’cause you did.
As to shooting +P loads, S&W advises thusly: “This ammunition should not be used in Smith & Wesson medium (K-frame) revolvers manufactured prior to 1958. Such pre-1958 medium (K-frame) revolvers can be identified by the absence of a model number stamped inside the yoke cut of the frame . . . .”
K-Frame is one of the best guns ever made. Perfect size.
Great review; at this price I might suddenly ‘need’ one! Let me also put in a good word for J&G Sales, who have always provided good service, good prices, and prompt shipping.
Here I go again extolling the virtues and value of a historical, classic, and venerable
American handgun: the K-Frame Smith and Wesson revolver. Aside from the double-
action only “bobbed hammer” the S&W K-Frame .38 Special/.357 Magnum revolver,
whether the original Model 10 or varients like the Models 15/67, 19/66 or whatever
with 4″ to 6″ barrel, remains perhaps the most practical and versatile handgun for the
average citizen. This includes the person owning but one handgun, the citizen purchasing his or her first handgun, etc. And not only for self defense/house protection. Also, for the great outdoors. The .38 Special 148 grain lead target wadcutter (next to a .22 or .32) remains tops for hunting small game: rabbit and squirrel. Also, for dispatching vermin: raccoon, skunk, or possum. CCI’s classic snake
or “shot load” containing No. 9 shot is lethal on rattlesnakes with a head shot up close.
Also, for butchering livestock. A K-Frame Smith and Wesson .38/.357 is a comforting
companion for fishing, hiking, backpacking, camping, picking wild berries, plums, or
for taking along on a road trip. The only alteration to such is perhaps to replace the
skimpy factory S&W Magna grips (once standard on the Model 10) with a pair of
Pachmayr or Uncle Mikes hard rubber combat grips. Like the Winchester Model 1897
“hammer” pump shotgun, the .300 Savage, and other classic vintage firearms, I adore
older Smith and Wesson revolvers owning four of them myself.
I previously mentioned the .38 Special 148 grain lead target wadcutter and it’s uses.
Lets talk about modern .38 Special ammo. For all practical purposes the old 158
grain lead round nosed police service load is obsolete, though the .38 Special itself
certainly isn’t. Modern .38 Special loading for defense include: Federal’s 129 grain
“Hydra-Shok” (+P), Winchester’s 125 grain Silvertip Hollowpoint (+P), and finally
Remington’s 125 grain Golden Saber (+P). And don’t forget the Glaser Safety Slug
either. For the apartment, condo, or urban dweller Glasers, though expensive, are
designed to empty their energy into a felon, and not to penetrate through walls
thus endangering the innocent.
The biggest drawback to this gun in terms of ammo is that for some reason the Commies/Former Commies out there don’t make boatloads of it in bulk. For that reason alone, it costs 1.5 times as much to shoot this with factory loads as it does to shoot my Glock.
On the flip side, there may be a cartridge that’s easier to reload than the .38 special, but I’ve never heard of it. Loading up a box of wadcutters costs me less than five bucks as powder consumption is minimal (I think I use about 3gr of Bullseye.)
As a plus, those .38SPL dies can be turned out 1.5 revolutions and used to load .357 mag.
I guess I’m the Imelda Marcos of k-frames. My current inventory is 3 M15’s (Combat Masterpiece .38) 1 2″ and 2 4″, 2 M14’s (k38 Masterpiece) (one each 6″ and 8 3/8″) a m18 (.22 Combat Masterpiece) (4″), and a 6″ m17 (k22). I also have a 2″ M10 and a m64 exactly as described, except it has a round butt. Oh, and a 6″ M48 .22 Magnum Masterpiece.
These are the finest belt guns in existence for knocking around in the woods. I need to start gathering m19’s before the supply completely dries up. I was picking them up in the 90’s for chicken feed, and prices remained low through 2005 or so, but the price on good clean used ones have skyrocketed lately.
They are as fine a beginner’s gun as exists. If you are helping a female pick out a first or only gun, let HER make the decision, but make sure she gets an opportunity to handle or shoot one of these, especially the round butt version.
Bingo. 😉
This gun is actually intended for my better half and she loves it.
Sir, I will make it my mission in life to surpass you! 😀
love my k frame 547 .
Is that the 9mm? Man, I had forgotten about those. Hmmm…a K frame that can shoot dirt-cheap imported ammo… Now you’ve really got me thinking, and no doubt my bank account will be all the worse for it. 😉
Martin:
Centerfire Systems sells copper-washed lead .38s for $8 or $9 a box (plus shipping) which rivals the price of all but the the cheapest 9mms. At those kind of prices I quit handloading (to spend more time shooting) and start buying commercial again.
I picked up a Model 10 with heavy barrel from J&G Sales a couple months ago after seeing a sales paper. It was $229 and after shipping and transfer was about $270 and still a steal. While it is not a weapon system I prefer I have to give it its props. It wasn’t till that Model 10 that I started actually getting down to business with a revolver and not just passable accuracy. My 686+ that I owned for two years and the Colt Python I learned on as well as a Taurus .357 simply did not suit me the way my obviously well-loved Model 10 does for a full-size wheelgun. I like the balance of the heavy barrel over the overly heavy front feel of the 686 and the wood grips on the Colt really punished my formerly virgin hands.
Not my arm of choice but loaded and waiting in the safe, ready to go. Much respect to the Model 10, a weapon from the age when revolvers were the thing to beat with good reason.
I’m sorry. I just can not warm up to those recycled water bottles or combat tupperware or whatever the latest thing is. Give me my old 1911, a nice single action, or a nice old Smith. I do not like these crazy modern guns.
Just recently picked up two model 10-10’s. Got a 64-1 today to keep them company. Got $700.00 tied up in the three of them. Couldn’t be any happier. Now to the range to determine which one shoots the best.
I bought my Mod. 64 in 2008 for 185.00 from a (I think) new salesman at the gunshop. I’ve always wondered though, my model number is 64-3 Why the 3?
I just moved to Prescott from the people’s Republic of Chicago.I made ot over to J&G as soon as I’d changed my drivers license to an Arizona one and sorted thru a slew of the Model 64’s they’ve got and grabbed me a good 64-3 with round butt and Pachmayr square grips for $269. I love it,I pulled the sideplate and cleaned and lubed it soon as I got it home and the whole gun was very nice shape,both mechanically and cosmetically,I’d trust my life to it if need be.
BTW,there’s still one local LEO who’s carrying wheel gun out here,and he’s not 60+ years old.
J&G has some good deals and the sale guys are pretty good.After I bought the 64 I also checked out the L/E trade in Ruger Mini-14’s with the synthetic stocks in stainless steel and grabbed a very nice one of those for an all around long gun to carry with me.
Ah, the K frame. I have only two currently – a 1930 M&P, and a 1980’s 13-3 with the round butt and 3″ barrel. They are lovely pieces of engineering, accurate, versatile, and just generally useful weapons. I just looked to see if J&G had any model 64 revolvers in stock, and they do, but are currently about $100 more than quoted in the review. May be getting one anyway – still are one of the best defensive pistols ever made.
A little old lady schooled me with one at the range one day. She could, and did, hit anything on the range at any distance. Don’t sell them short – a double action revolver will still make good hits at longer range. It’s more a question of the shooter’s capabilities than the gun’s. Cops used to qualify with these at 50 yards. Ten yards and in is not even stretching their legs.
I was able to pick up a Model 10-8 pinned and a Model 64-5, each was around $339.00. Both in 4″ barrels. The 10 was a retired police, and the 64 is a retired Ohio DOC pistol. Robertson Trading Post, out of Henderson, TN still has quite a few 64’s, at around 85% condition.
I have several other pistols, other Smiths, Colts, and even an old FN Browning 1922, but these 2 have to be my favorites. Fit and feel, and just the over all simplistic design has made them my go too’s time and again.
Thanks for a great article. It’s good to see other wheel gunners out there. Oh, and as far as the 158gr wad cutters, and round nose being obsolete? Like I tell my friends who laugh at me for carrying a .38, let me take you out back and shoot you. Then tell me it’s obsolete. If both the NYPD, and LAPD, not to mention all the other 1000’s of P.D.’s felt safe using them as a man stopper, who am I to doubt it? Yes, there are better rounds out there, but I would never call these time-tested rounds obsolete. But that’s just my humble opinion.
My kid has become interested in shooting something larger than 22lr after shooting my steel J snub with specials. I think a K frame is just the ticket. Mine are either J’s or N’s.
There is nothing more rewarding than shooting a quality revolver and they last lifetimes when properly cared for.
I own a lot of guns but this is my house gun with a set of crimson trace grips. I would like to have a 67 same gun with adjustable sights, but I just bought the NEW Model 66 and cant justify the other(not right now at least).
Good review. I have been shooting revolvers for some time. A couple years ago I purchased a used Model 19.
Ok I get it now!!! There is some thing about these Smith and Wesson revolvers.
Added a model 14 38 special with a 6 inch barrel. Wow!!! Its a lifer my kids will have to fight over it.
Have been wanting a used model 10 for some time. But then I happened upon the Model 64. I think these are a good option because your not likely to get a beat up looking gun plus you can buff out the Stainless to get them looking good again.
Have a few bids on one, so should have one with in the week.
I like checking your web sites. Thank you!
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You’re a very useful web site; could not make it without ya!
A couple years ago, I first tested for my ccw with a worn Model 10 circa 1970 I bought off gunbroker. I traded that in for a (relatively) newer model 64 with a bobbed hammer and 4″ barrel almost exactly like what you have pictured. I love it. Given its weight, I can put rounds down range as quick as you please. It’s as comfortable in the hand as one’s own pecker. I usually get looks at the range when I shoot, not because it’s a remarkable gun, but at 25, I swear to Jesus I’m the youngest guy still carrying one.
I bought a Model 64 round butt from J&G years ago…it has a 4″bbl and Hogue boot grips on it…awesome revolver
Any update on the accuracy issues noted in the review? Has it gone back for that inspection for the trigger bow?
I really want one, but any gun over a grand better be able to outshoot me (it’s not like that’s a particularly high standard, even).
I’d really like to see one shot from a rest by another reputable outlet; or, failing that, maybe TTAG could get their hands on another one to do a similar accuracy test? I’m curious if TTAG’s gun was a fluke or if it’s a design issue, and I haven’t seen any other reviews other than ones by Youtube randos…