Yeah, but then there’s the Mauser, the Luger, the Hi-Power, the SIG P-210, the H&K series of firearms, (most are pretty nice), then there’s CZ, Anshhutz, Benelli, Beretta. How about those English sporting guns? Those Parkers and Rigbys are just plain butt ugly.
GF. The post was about military weapons. I agree that quality European sporting arms can be down right awesome to look at. And the Luger has a style all its own. And the Browning really isn’t a European design. Just partly.
Respectfully disagree. There is a certain beauty in a well-engineered firearm whose function takes precedence over shallow, glitzy form.
The outstanding FN High-Power, Walther PPK are classically elegant. Even the utilitarian CZ 52 has simple, snag-resistant, lines. It reflects a function over form attractiveness PLUS they Work. Every. Time.
I find the FN-FAL and the H&K G-3 / 91 to be aesthetically attractive for their purpose…again function over glitzy form.
In one way, I couldn’t agree more. As the saying used to go, back in your part of the country, “They ain’t no ‘good horse’ of a bad color”. Function outweighs form. Still (and you pointed out some examples) some firearms become classics (in part) BECAUSE they combine good function with a certain . . . let’s call it ‘functional elegance’. The Hi-Power, the 1911, the Garand, the Springfield ’01, the Lee-Enfield, to name just a few.
Obviously, particularly for battlefield use (and that includes urban battlefields) functionality/reliability (it goes ‘bang’ every time, and hits what it’s aimed at) is the most important thing. Beyond that, well, I think we’d all like a little class in our firearms. Having said that, many of those “classics” are considered both classics, and standards of ‘elegance’ BECAUSE they were, in their time, just so damn good.
If I can buy a firearm that does both? I’m happy. But (like my two Glock pistols) if they are aesthetically ugly, but go bang and hit what I aim them at, I’m all good with that.
My spouse reminded me a few minutes ago that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It was a gentle reminder that I am not (and have never been) a “beautiful” person…I have been grateful for 48 years that she saw something special in me that worked for her….but, I dither. I own several Glocks but prefer to carry a classic P-220 most of the time. Both work impeccably…the Sig just does it with style (imagine Gallagher’s voice saying “style”). In short, carry and shoot what works for you whether (or not) you find it aesthetically pleasing or double plus ungood fugly.
Well, PERSONALLY, pretty much all of them. I could even live with the butt-ugly look and design if I could (i) get a decent trigger, and (ii) not get ‘gassed’ with every shot. But that’s just me.
You’ll never get a bullpup trigger as nice as an SSA, but I’ll take the standard AUG trigger over a crunchy milspec AR trigger any day of the week and twice on Sunday!
Exactly.
Install a RatWorx drop in trigger assembly in an AUG (around $100) and the trigger issue is resolved. Takes around 15 minutes.
The NATO spec AUG (even with a “20 Barrel and 60 rd STANAG drum mag) excells at one hand operation and CQB.
Comment sections overflow with negative comments on the AUG. Most are posted by shooters who sit behind a range bench or lay out prone and fire the platform.
The AUG shines when it’s used in CQB, run and gun, high stress drills……..
The factory installed Swarovski 3x “donut of death” optic is THE absolute steal in the optics world. I’ve shot several sub-MOA groups with it.
To be really honest, most procurement officers are bought by the highest bribe.
And then there’s the whole “FU !! I didn’t accept any bribe!! That weekend in Vegas and private jet ride was a gift!”
Handled a couple bullpup designs. Can’t say I’m a fan. Yes, they give the user a full length barrel in a shorter design, but mag changes are a little awkward for me and don’t like getting a face full of hot gasses every time it cycles under fire. Don’t give a crap about aesthetics if it is a functional design that does what is asked of it.
I got news for you, in an energy aspect any gun being fired within 4 feet of you in a very real aspect places your ears and eyes and “brain” “right next to the explosion”. In the energy aspect for ears and brain and eyes, for a firearm being fired within 4 feet of you there is less than .02% difference between having your ears and brain and eyes 4 feet away and right at the firearm. This is for any rifle or pistol firearm bullpup or not.
In other news, most kaboom damage is usually confined to the area at the breech and the mag well. Explosion force decreases geometrically as distance from epicenter increases.
“Explosion force decreases geometrically as distance from epicenter increases.”
Ahhhh the earthquake model doesn’t apply here.
Not really like that significantly for short distance. For short distance ~4 feet, in the energy aspect for ears and brain and eyes, these are ‘soft tissue’ associated areas naturally susceptible to concussive energy, for a firearm being fired within 4 feet of you there is less than .02% difference between having your ears and brain and eyes 4 feet away and right at the firearm.
As in collateral deaths from artillery blast overpressure.
Was it a “LAW” or and “EXECUTIVE ORDER”? If a “LAW” then it was the legislature that took away. If an “Exec Order” then TOTAL BS and was by the governor. EITHER, clearly violate Bruen.
The drug leg@liz@tion crowd are intellectually dishonest and dangerous people. They want the freedom to use whatever drugs they want to the point that it could kill them.
And then I want to blame the police who come to their aid. Instead of facing up to the fact that Floyd died of a drug overdose.
GF had a history of “PacMan”ning up all the drugs around him when stopped by LEO. Then denying consumption of those drugs when asked by LE.
Most people capable of critical thinking would classify that as suicide by self inflicted OD.
Maybe someone incapable of critical thinking can explain how GFs death is all Derrick Cs fault.
Lil’d?
Whiner?
These Jan 6 videos contradict what we were told by Dems. (note: In case no one knows yet, thousands of hours of video evidence for Jan 6th was suppressed by the Democrats. Speaker Mike Johnson and republicans recovered this ~40,000 hours of January 6 footage and has released it, it paints a picture that shows the Dems lied a lot about Jan 6th.)
“The study, which examined white liberals, moderates, and conservatives, both male and female, found that conservatives were far less likely to be diagnosed with mental health issues than those who identified as either liberal or even “very liberal.”
Young white women suffered the worst.
White women, ages 18-29, who identified as liberal were given a mental health diagnosis from medical professionals at a rate of 56.3%, as compared to 28.4% in moderates and 27.3% in conservatives. …”
…. and here is why (in the above video) TikTok Communists doing MEAL PREP For The Revolution are not looking at the reality (have zero concept of the reality) and are not going to survive the ‘Revolution’.
Montenegrin revolvers. Gasser Revolvers. Webley revolvers. Steyr Hahn pistols. Broomhandle Mausers.
Just a few. Fugly and european small arms go hand in hand.
Yeah, but then there’s the Mauser, the Luger, the Hi-Power, the SIG P-210, the H&K series of firearms, (most are pretty nice), then there’s CZ, Anshhutz, Benelli, Beretta. How about those English sporting guns? Those Parkers and Rigbys are just plain butt ugly.
GF. The post was about military weapons. I agree that quality European sporting arms can be down right awesome to look at. And the Luger has a style all its own. And the Browning really isn’t a European design. Just partly.
But then there is the Steyr 95. The Famas.
@jwm
Respectfully disagree. There is a certain beauty in a well-engineered firearm whose function takes precedence over shallow, glitzy form.
The outstanding FN High-Power, Walther PPK are classically elegant. Even the utilitarian CZ 52 has simple, snag-resistant, lines. It reflects a function over form attractiveness PLUS they Work. Every. Time.
I find the FN-FAL and the H&K G-3 / 91 to be aesthetically attractive for their purpose…again function over glitzy form.
Just an Old Guy’s $0.02
“There is a certain beauty in a well-engineered firearm whose function takes precedence over shallow, glitzy form.”
The Luger P-08 is both.
100% Agree.
Very true as to what Old Guy said…
Old Guy,
In one way, I couldn’t agree more. As the saying used to go, back in your part of the country, “They ain’t no ‘good horse’ of a bad color”. Function outweighs form. Still (and you pointed out some examples) some firearms become classics (in part) BECAUSE they combine good function with a certain . . . let’s call it ‘functional elegance’. The Hi-Power, the 1911, the Garand, the Springfield ’01, the Lee-Enfield, to name just a few.
Obviously, particularly for battlefield use (and that includes urban battlefields) functionality/reliability (it goes ‘bang’ every time, and hits what it’s aimed at) is the most important thing. Beyond that, well, I think we’d all like a little class in our firearms. Having said that, many of those “classics” are considered both classics, and standards of ‘elegance’ BECAUSE they were, in their time, just so damn good.
If I can buy a firearm that does both? I’m happy. But (like my two Glock pistols) if they are aesthetically ugly, but go bang and hit what I aim them at, I’m all good with that.
@Lamp
My spouse reminded me a few minutes ago that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It was a gentle reminder that I am not (and have never been) a “beautiful” person…I have been grateful for 48 years that she saw something special in me that worked for her….but, I dither. I own several Glocks but prefer to carry a classic P-220 most of the time. Both work impeccably…the Sig just does it with style (imagine Gallagher’s voice saying “style”). In short, carry and shoot what works for you whether (or not) you find it aesthetically pleasing or double plus ungood fugly.
I would lust after a Webley. or a Mauser.
I had a Webley. Very functional. But ugly. And I like a revolver.
Which ugly bullpup?
Southern,
Well, PERSONALLY, pretty much all of them. I could even live with the butt-ugly look and design if I could (i) get a decent trigger, and (ii) not get ‘gassed’ with every shot. But that’s just me.
I’ll definitely agree on the triggers. The AUG has a worse trigger than a water pistol.
You’ll never get a bullpup trigger as nice as an SSA, but I’ll take the standard AUG trigger over a crunchy milspec AR trigger any day of the week and twice on Sunday!
All of them.
Eurotrash gonna trash
AUG for life!
Exactly.
Install a RatWorx drop in trigger assembly in an AUG (around $100) and the trigger issue is resolved. Takes around 15 minutes.
The NATO spec AUG (even with a “20 Barrel and 60 rd STANAG drum mag) excells at one hand operation and CQB.
Comment sections overflow with negative comments on the AUG. Most are posted by shooters who sit behind a range bench or lay out prone and fire the platform.
The AUG shines when it’s used in CQB, run and gun, high stress drills……..
The factory installed Swarovski 3x “donut of death” optic is THE absolute steal in the optics world. I’ve shot several sub-MOA groups with it.
To be fair, American military procurement officers would totally be into bullpups if Sig made them.
To be really honest, most procurement officers are bought by the highest bribe.
And then there’s the whole “FU !! I didn’t accept any bribe!! That weekend in Vegas and private jet ride was a gift!”
True.
Giving
Lots
Of
Complimentary
Kisses
Handled a couple bullpup designs. Can’t say I’m a fan. Yes, they give the user a full length barrel in a shorter design, but mag changes are a little awkward for me and don’t like getting a face full of hot gasses every time it cycles under fire. Don’t give a crap about aesthetics if it is a functional design that does what is asked of it.
Bullpups put your brain right next to the explosion, No Thanks !
I got news for you, in an energy aspect any gun being fired within 4 feet of you in a very real aspect places your ears and eyes and “brain” “right next to the explosion”. In the energy aspect for ears and brain and eyes, for a firearm being fired within 4 feet of you there is less than .02% difference between having your ears and brain and eyes 4 feet away and right at the firearm. This is for any rifle or pistol firearm bullpup or not.
In other news, most kaboom damage is usually confined to the area at the breech and the mag well. Explosion force decreases geometrically as distance from epicenter increases.
“Explosion force decreases geometrically as distance from epicenter increases.”
Ahhhh the earthquake model doesn’t apply here.
Not really like that significantly for short distance. For short distance ~4 feet, in the energy aspect for ears and brain and eyes, these are ‘soft tissue’ associated areas naturally susceptible to concussive energy, for a firearm being fired within 4 feet of you there is less than .02% difference between having your ears and brain and eyes 4 feet away and right at the firearm.
As in collateral deaths from artillery blast overpressure.
I like my Bullpup .577 Tyrannosaur
I’ve got a Springfield Armory Hellion bullpup. Took a little getting used to but I like it.
BREAKING: Governor To Take Away 2nd Amendment For 8 Years Over MISDEMEANOR.
Was it a “LAW” or and “EXECUTIVE ORDER”? If a “LAW” then it was the legislature that took away. If an “Exec Order” then TOTAL BS and was by the governor. EITHER, clearly violate Bruen.
In any case what is wrong with Michigan?
This is never before heard information about George Floyd.
George Floyd. Patron saint of massive fentanyl consumption.
The drug leg@liz@tion crowd are intellectually dishonest and dangerous people. They want the freedom to use whatever drugs they want to the point that it could kill them.
And then I want to blame the police who come to their aid. Instead of facing up to the fact that Floyd died of a drug overdose.
GF had a history of “PacMan”ning up all the drugs around him when stopped by LEO. Then denying consumption of those drugs when asked by LE.
Most people capable of critical thinking would classify that as suicide by self inflicted OD.
Maybe someone incapable of critical thinking can explain how GFs death is all Derrick Cs fault.
Lil’d?
Whiner?
These Jan 6 videos contradict what we were told by Dems. (note: In case no one knows yet, thousands of hours of video evidence for Jan 6th was suppressed by the Democrats. Speaker Mike Johnson and republicans recovered this ~40,000 hours of January 6 footage and has released it, it paints a picture that shows the Dems lied a lot about Jan 6th.)
56% of White Liberal Women Have a Mental Disorder.
Pew Study: White Liberals Disproportionately Suffer From Mental Illness.
https://wibc.com/108211/pew-study-white-liberals-disproportionately-suffer-from-mental-illness/
“The study, which examined white liberals, moderates, and conservatives, both male and female, found that conservatives were far less likely to be diagnosed with mental health issues than those who identified as either liberal or even “very liberal.”
Young white women suffered the worst.
White women, ages 18-29, who identified as liberal were given a mental health diagnosis from medical professionals at a rate of 56.3%, as compared to 28.4% in moderates and 27.3% in conservatives. …”
Next, you’ll tell us that ALL women are crazy (details at 11). Duh.
TikTok Communists Begin MEAL PREP For The Revolution In HILARIOUS And SAD Video.
…. and here is why (in the above video) TikTok Communists doing MEAL PREP For The Revolution are not looking at the reality (have zero concept of the reality) and are not going to survive the ‘Revolution’.
bullpups were not designed to be used by human-shaped users.