Grand Rapids Police Release Video of Fatal Shooting of Patrick Lyoya

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By Anna Liz Nichols and Ed White, AP

A black man face-down on the ground was fatally shot in the back of the head by a Michigan police officer, the violent climax of a traffic stop, brief foot chase and struggle over a stun gun, according to videos of the April 4 incident.

Patrick Lyoya, 26, was killed outside a house in Grand Rapids. The white officer repeatedly ordered Lyoya to “let go” of his Taser, at one point demanding: “Drop the Taser!”

Citing a need for transparency, the city’s new police chief, Eric Winstrom, on Wednesday released four videos, including critical footage of the shooting recorded by a passenger in Lyoya’s car on that rainy morning.

“I view it as a tragedy. … It was a progression of sadness for me,” said Winstrom, a former high-ranking Chicago police commander who became Grand Rapids chief in March. The city of about 200,000 people is about 150 miles (240 kilometers) northwest of Detroit.

Video shows Lyoya running from the officer who stopped him for driving with a license plate that didn’t belong to the vehicle. They struggled in front of several homes while Lyoya’s passenger got out and watched.

Winstrom said the fight over the Taser lasted about 90 seconds. In the final moments, the officer was on top of Lyoya, kneeling on his back at times to subdue him.

“From my view of the video, Taser was deployed twice. Taser did not make contact,” Winstrom told reporters. “And Mr. Lyoya was shot in the head. However, that’s the only information that I have.”

State police are investigating the shooting. Kent County’s chief medical examiner, Dr. Stephen Cohle, said he completed the autopsy but toxicology tests haven’t been finished.

The traffic stop was tense from the start. Video shows Lyoya, a native of the Democratic Republic of Congo, getting out of the car before the officer approached. He ordered Lyoya to get back in the vehicle but the man declined.

The officer asked him if he spoke English and demanded his driver’s license. The foot chase began soon after, video shows.

Winstrom didn’t identify the officer, a seven-year veteran who is on paid leave during the investigation.

“Me being from Chicago for the last 20 years, I’ve handled many police shootings myself, so I do have a lot of experience in this,” the chief said. “I was hoping to never have to utilize that experience here.”


Video was collected from Lyoya’s passenger, the officer’s body-worn camera, the officer’s patrol car and a doorbell camera. Prosecutor Chris Becker, who will decide whether any charges are warranted, objected to the release but said Winstrom could act on his own.

Becker said the public shouldn’t expect a quick decision.

“While the videos released today are an important piece of evidence, they are not all of the evidence,” he said.

The officer’s body-worn camera was turned off before the shooting, which happens when a button is pushed for 3 seconds, Winstrom said. He said it appears it was deactivated unintentionally due to body pressure during the struggle, but he would not discuss any officer statements about it.

“That will come out once the investigation’s complete,” Winstrom said.

City Manager Mark Washington warned that the videos would lead to “expressions of shock, of anger and of pain.” Some downtown businesses boarded up their storefronts, and concrete barricades surrounded police headquarters.

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92 COMMENTS

  1. Do what a cop tells you to do when you get pulled over.

    This is likely to be a more common accurance as more illegals come on from over the border.

    • It’s racist to expect people to conform to white-heteronormative-patriarchical standards. If this persons culture dictates he flight, flail and flop about then so be it. The police should accept that culture for what it is. Beautifully diverse.

      • Get out of these cities, my people. They’re a trap. What is anecdotal today, will be routine tomorrow. You will watch as your children die there. This is God’s warning to us.

        Leave now.

        • I’m kind of … done… with the empathy and sympathy. It always happens like this. Retarded person, who can’t follow basic instructions, wasn’t taught to do so from a father, because one wasn’t in the home, their entire life, wasn’t taught by the school that couldn’t even teach them to read, runs from a police officer, resists arrest, tries to take his weapon, and surprise surprise! (/s it’s not a surprise at all!) gets shot and dies! Then a mob of people get out their placards, and by the end of the day, got a new 4k TV, some new shoes on their feet, some beauty products from the local walgreens or CVS, and some quality alcohol for a party later. And it’s just so ridiculous. It’s like they are celebrating too, that one of them died, so they can self justify the free stuff they are about to steal. Meanwhile, they feign outrage, and are feeling better by the end of the day after a protestation party of free stuff, burning cop cars, or vandalizing a local business that employs one of their neighbors or relatives. These people are the cause of their own problems. And I’m so fatigued out by it, that I’m just all out of sympathy. I see another getting shot in the head, after the usual predictable patterns that end in getting shot in the head, and all I can muster is…. “Meh.”

      • Doesn’t matter my culture, if I am in Dubai and I see lights and police pull me over and start muscling me I am going to do whatever I can to A. Show I’m not a threat. B. Comply best as I can. Hands in the air, getting on my knees and let them go from there. If this guy would have done the same he wouldn’t have gotten shot.

    • If you had bothered to watch the news they stated the man did not have complete command of the English language. Of course this does not matter to a racist like yourself. You will scream “The only good immigrant black man is a dead immigrant black man”.

      • So he response is to run and fight the cops? In what language did he process that? Automobile with stolen plates? I am sure he was just getting his life back together after emigrating to our country.

        I am sure in the Democratic Republic of Congo it is normal to steal plates and swap them to another car.

      • There are things that are understood in every language, they are “badge” and “police car with flashing lights”.

        The guy understood English well enough to ask the cop what he had done wrong and respond to the cops request for a license by asking the passenger to get his license for him and describe to the passenger where the license was. Then he understood English well enough, upon the passenger not being able to produce the license, to know that he did not meet the request for the license and that maybe he should turn and start to run away because he knew he was nailed.

        The excuse of language barrier is pretty much invalid here even if there was some language difficulty in other things.

        • In addition, the guy even told the cop his license was in the car. So he understood that the cop wanted to see his license. Upon asking his passenger to get the license and it not being produced the guy realized the jig was up and turned to run.

          He understood the whole situation well enough.

        • The article said he was an immigrant from the Congo, it did not say how long he had been in America.

      • “If you had bothered to watch the news they stated the man did not have complete command of the English language.”

        ANOTHER steaming pile from lil’dtard.
        The officer asked the suspect if he spoke English, the suspect replied yes.
        He communicated in English just fine during the incident too.

        You truly are a total POS lil’d.

      • Well, Dacian Dodo, some of us traveled throughout the world, pretty extensively. We happen to have experience with foreign cultures, where we didn’t speak the lingua franca. Depending on the circumstances, each and every one of us decided in an instant whether we should comply with an cop’s orders. Sometimes, we had more firepower, and the willingness to use it. There’s nothing quite like watching 18 Italian Caribeneri shouldering their Thompson submachineguns, and hightailing it. Sometimes, you just STFU, take their crap, while taking note of names and badge numbers. Mr. Lyoya made multiple bad decisions, the last of which, was to grab for an officer’s weapon. Didn’t matter what language he spoke or didn’t speak when he made that decision.

        You should get out more. May I suggest that you visit Ukraine? It’s a beautiful place in the spring time!!

        • I want more of the story with the Carabineri.
          I have a favorite memory of Italian Federal Police in their Lamborghini police car pulling over two knockout girls in a convertible smiling and posing. Then the local old cop on his old wobbly bicycle goes by and smiles.
          My Sister, who lives there, saw my expression and explained, “the Federal have a good budget”.

      • Bruh, complete command of the english language?

        This is the excuse you are presenting? The fact that he wrestled with police and refused to let go of their weapon gives someone lee-way for not understanding english? He knew enough to ask “what did I do wrong?”…

        I’ll tell you what, even if I was in this situation and Cantonese was being spoken to me, I’d still know what to fucking do – and it would not involve wrestling an officer and grabbing their weapon.

        You liberals are more pathetic than the rest of the wing nuts.

      • If you had bothered to watch the news they stated the man did not have complete command of the English language.

        Not a good excuse for running from the cops, resisting arrest, and trying to take the police officer’s taser. Pretty sure that would be illegal in any nation you pick, regardless of language.

    • When a cop stops you you shut off the engine, put both hands on the top of the steering wheel and wait for instructions. If you resist you may end up being killed. If you are armed or have anything that can be used as a weapon, you need to tell the officers so they will not be threatened. If you try to get away the cops need to shoot you! If you try to take their taser or gun, they need to shoot you. If you resist in any way they need to forcefully restrain you and if you continue to resist they need to shoot you!

      How hard is it for you to just relax, cooperate and obey the commands of the police? If you are not doing anything illegal and have no warrants you will be on your way in a few minutes, maybe with a speeding ticket. Stop fighting the police! If you are arrested you will get to see a Judge in Court very soon to explain your side of the story.

      And how come this only happens to the punks and thugs?

      • If you try to get away the cops need to shoot you!

        I’m mostly familiar with DoD SRUF, which only allows shooting a fleeing suspect if the crime of which he is suspected or convicted, or something he has stolen (grenades, etc.), makes him a threat to lives. It’s unclear what the license issue was. Even if he was suspected of GTA, they had the car.

        • He wasn’t shot for trying to get away. He was shot because he was trying to fight the cop and take his taser.

        • Context is everything. I was replying specifically to the previous poster, who said someone should be shot for trying to get away [from a stop over a license plate issue!]. Let’s assume the worst case scenario – that the issue led the cop to suspect Grand Theft Auto, a felony. Some people would say it’s never OK to resort to force over property. Others might argue that the potentially stolen car imperiled someone’s livelihood, or that a suspect fleeing in the car would threaten lives. Those might be valid points if applicable, but the runaway no longer had the car.

          Besides listing the scenarios in which deadly force is applicable, SRUF also frames its use in terms of necessity and proportionality. In a previous incident (I can’t be bothered to look up the name, but TTAG covered it at the time) the cop deemed force necessary because the suspect got the TASER and tried to use it. In this case he did not.

          My first thought was that the cop could simply have stood up if he was worried about his TASER. In fact, re-watching the video, he did exactly that. Otherwise, he would have placed not only the TASER but also the pistol within the suspect’s reach; but because he did successfully distance himself from the suspect (who did not turn around and charge him), I’m not seeing necessity. At that point the only “threat” posed by the suspect was defiance of the cop’s ego.

        • I guess you didn’t watch the video. He didn’t get shot because he ran away. He got shot because he took a weapon from the police officer, that could allow the perpetrator to stun the officer and take the officers lethal weapon. That is why he was shot. That is why this resulted in what it resulted in. That and the fact that there obviously wasn’t a father to explain to black beavis that you don’t run from the cops, you don’t resist arrest, and you don’t take the officers weapon. And the crappy schools he attended too, likely were teaching him grievance studies, and on how oppressed he was, and how oppressed his ancestors were, rather than how to properly behave in a civilized society.

        • Anonymous,
          I certainly did. See my response to “Facts”, right above yours.

          I agree with most of your points, but I was responding to someone (NC Taxman) who thought he should have gotten shot for running.

    • Good shoot. Why do some people think it’s okay to fight with police? And then they expect not to get hurt? It’s Darwin at work here.

      Glad the cop is okay. It was a righteous shoot. Bad guy could have deployed the weapon on the cop. Wasn’t the cop’s fault his opponent was bigger and stronger.

      • Lyoya forced his hand. Lyoya’s crappy urban school, and the lack of a father, resulted in him not knowing how to behave in a civilized society.

        If I took a taser from a cop and wrestled around with him on the ground, I would EXPECT to be shot. Why was this guy thinking it wouldn’t happen to him?

        Then morons come out of the woodwork, claim murder and oppression. I’m just tired and fatigued out by all the idiocy, and political correctness manipulation, and I’m running short of sympathy.

        • This go around it may go more like it did in Troy when they tried a riot there. A lot of business went “oh free bricks” and used them to pave better outdoor dining areas. We learned from Albany and the other cities. And it didn’t go any further north for some reason.

        • Forgot about that one. Along with the random U-HAUL or Penske rental truck with professionally printed riot signs and free fireworks.

    • Jimmy, that’s some pretty good advice. One good thing though. With the price of gas what it is ANTIFA and BLM may not be paying protesters to drive across the continent. Should cut down on the number of Molotov cocktails as well.

  2. Clearly a case of cold blooded murder by cop. And even if he thought he had to shoot him he could have shot him in the shoulder.

    • When you’re trying to control a person who is equal to your size and you only have one hand to do it you shoot whatever is available and it’s unlikely he even aimed, he simply pull the trigger as soon as the gun was pointed in the right direction.

    • The same cops herr dacian wants to be in control of who has guns in America and who doesn’t.

      He’s way past the point of mental illness, now.

    • Let me get this straight, you’re saying the cop is supposed to use deadly force but not use it in. deadly way? Yup, that definitely hold up in court. Next time the neighbor’s kids are in my yard I’ll just shoot them in the leg. That is if we are considering firearms as non-lethal force now.

    • “Clearly a case of cold blooded murder by cop. And even if he thought he had to shoot him he could have shot him in the shoulder.”

      When you grow up maybe you could apply to be a Police officer, if you are qualified. Then at the Academy you could tell them the proper techniques to use. Apparently you know more than anyone else. Until then, you never have had a position where life and death situations were made in an instant and your opinion shows it.

    • Clearly a case of cold blooded murder by cop.

      More like an another example of how hood rats can’t follow instructions, or wear pants that don’t fall down. I know urban schools aren’t very good, and most people coming out of them can’t read, but at the very least, they could teach them how to interact with a police officer. That would be money in the bank, and quite the societal investment if they could be taught how to not run, not resist arrest, not attack police, or try to take their weapons, and in general behave with police, which all the rest of society is doing, which they are the only ones failing to do. Even chris rock has it down:

    • And even if he thought he had to shoot him he could have shot him in the shoulder.

      Quite possibly the dumbest thing I’ve heard you say, ever.

      Officer in court: “I was shooting to wound!”
      Prosecutor: “If you just ‘wounded’ him, then he obviously wasn’t a lethal threat?”

      It’s democrat policies that require this. You guys are the cause of your own problems.
      If I told the court that I shot someone in self defense, but shot to wound because I didn’t want to kill them, then they wouldn’t perceive it as a lethal threat, and then I would be imprisoned. Welcome to gun control you little turd.

  3. Another cop, another thug, another day. Well, I guess we’re running short of home grown thugs so we had to import that one.

  4. Meh. One’s a moron and the other’s in over his head.

    Cop’s got numerous great chances for a seatbelt+hooks. Flatten him out like a racehorse and RNC until the lights go out. Attach cuffs and let the rain wake him up.

    But that would require actually training the cops instead of pouring cash into piles of gear. The knees the cop throws suggest that someone taught him something but that this “something” is mostly useless.

    Ultimately the outcome here was unavoidable given the totality of circumstances. The cop was reliant on tools and once he lost one he had no real choice but to love to the next. The other guy did… everything wrong.

    • Yeah I noticed the really poor grappling stuff. Instead of spending 40 hours budget on hand fight skills it seems budget people prefer to spend millions on law suits.
      The dead guy was not really into attacking the cop but he kept resisting and was obviously strong plus the rain affecting grip.
      If I was a cop I’d spend my own money on learning physical compliance methods, rather than deal with such unpleasant consequences.

  5. WTF are we importing citizens of “Democratic Republic of Congo”? Not enough of this flavor of “diversity” ruining the US?

  6. That creep should have been doing something legitimate, like beating up Jussie Smollett. This cultural enrichment concept is getting irritating.

    • I don’t care. If a cop with a gat tells you step out you have no sympathy from me. If you fight with him(or her!) you deserve what you get. Red or yellow, black or white…

  7. The struggle to comply was obviously exhausting and turned into a him or me situation for the officer. IMO…The perp’s ongoing criminal behavior made the use of deadly force appropriate.
    In this case if riots occur it is only because the officer is white which makes the rioters the racists. Ignorant knee jerk racists whether they be black, white, stripped or pokadotted use such tragedies for nothing more than to spread their hate.

  8. Guys, first take a breath. I agree it looks bad. Real bad. I understand they were fighting over a TASER that had been discharged. If they still work the way they did in 2014, that did not render it harmless. We called it “Dry Tasing.” No need for the probes and leads. It can be just as debilitating. If you’re down you can be disarmed of your deadly weapon. Never a good thing. And remember. Just out of frame in this video is a patrol car. This is definitely not something you want a suspect to have access/control of. Looks like an outside agency is investigating. Let’s just be patient.

    • No major change in function by 2019 for anything we would order so pretty safe to guess it is still the case generally. Best advice given thus far and likely the most ignored unfortunately.

  9. Whats the deal on the license plate? Apparently from the story and video it did not belong to the car.

    But…

    1. Was the plate stolen?
    2. Was the car stolen and a plate put on it?
    3. What caused the officer to be attracted enough to this car in the first place to be able to know if the license plate belonged to the car or not? I mean, you need to be close enough to see it so why was the officer close enough to begin with.
    4, Did the officer actually stop for a violation and then discover the plate didn’t belong on the car or was the plate the reason for the stop?

  10. Seems like another example of a cop who is incapable of or uninterested in considering any other course of action besides “You’ll do what I say or I’ll kill you”.

    It is unfortunate to witness a situation where the ego drives someone to the very edge of physical and mental exhaustion- where they conclude that an execution is their only option.

    At any point the officer could have simply disengaged from the suspect, taken several steps away from him and held him under cover of his duty sidearm while calling for backup. Doing so would have given the officer more options other than rolling around in the mud with a suspect, to the point of lethal exhaustion, leaving him with the unjustified conclusion that he had to shoot the suspect in the head.

    Looks to be a completely avoidable homicide with poor choices made by both actors- with the most grievous one being made by the officer.

    Be smarter.

    • Right. And then if the guy charged the cop and the cop shot, we’d get another summer of “hands up, don’t shoot.”

      You should be smarter.

      • If you cannot distinguish the difference in optics between a law enforcement officer shooting a suspect that is agressively charging him versus a law enforcement officer shooting a suspect in the back of the head who’s lying face down on the ground beneath said officer…
        then it might be unwise for you to be ascribing acumen.

        • If you can’t tell the difference between a person lying on the ground and a person that was forced down onto the ground and who is fighting an officer for his weapon then maybe you’re the one with the problem.

        • Was he “lying face down on the ground” tho? Or did he have his hand on the officers weapon while fighting them and momentarily being forced to the ground?

          There was another case just like this in a wal-mart not long ago. Same exact situation. Same exact outcome. No outcry. It was justified.

          I’d be all in with you if the the tyrant was doing usual tyrant shit, but this kind of stuff… not worth defending someone over. If they wanted to defend themselves over a traffic stop they should have complied and gone to traffic court.

  11. In other news… ATF Final Ruling 2021R-05F | Complete Breakdown > https://www.80percentarms.com/blog/atf-final-ruling-2021r05f-complete-breakdown/?utm_source=3-%20List&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=3.%20Determination%20Letters%20%7C%204.14.2022%20%28TGBYgh%29&_kx=R-GX1hKCNCccpLnMhQLiM4vN89ORsCC4NY6hLacnd2c%3D.PNxyAX

    Apparently as of 9 August all 80% lowers and jigs will be banned because the new rules voids any previous ATF approvals for 80% lowers and jigs.

    All you now law abiding people with 80% lowers and jigs, get ready for your new life as a felon and confiscation.

    • from the link above…

      80 percent lower receivers and frames (the ATF refers to them in this document as partially complete, disassembled, or nonfunctional frames or receivers, including frame or receiver parts kits) would have to be serialized and require a background check in order to be legally sold to consumers. Similar to how most handguns bought from a gun store will show the serial number engraved on the frame, barrel and slide – upper receivers for all AR platforms will have to be serialized as well (unless they are mated with a grandfathered lower). This means that future purchases would require background checks for even just an upper – which could invite further regulation soon after for complete upper receivers.

      *****************

      Yep. Joe Biden, making criminals from law abiding people since 2022

    • Every year machines like the ghost gunner to mill 0% aluminum blocks get cheaper and better. The ATF is chasing a dragon it will never catch. They’re already at the early-adopter pricepoint 3D printers were back in the day.

      The meme will become real soon enough of the ATF serializing and background checking every purchase from a hardware store.

      • I know a guy who makes his own lowers from scratch. Puts a block of 7075 aluminum in and out comes a mil-spec lower. He’s done a few hundred of them over time, sold most.

  12. I’m not sure exactly why, but I don’t like this one.
    I know the usual play stupid games rules apply and just comply, etc. And having an officers weapon while engaged in a fight with said officer seems suicidal…

    This doesn’t seem absolutely necessary. The man’s actions seemed to always be defensive as in trying to escape, went for the taser after it was pointed at him.
    I realize that there is an excellent chance the taser gets turned on the cop or at least threatened, but then what? It’s presumed that the next step would be to grab his pistol and use it on him. I know I’m giving him credit he may not deserve, but isn’t it more likely that he just runs back to his care and peels out?

    • Probably because this cop started a physical confrontation he was entirely unprepared for.

      Homeboy should never have gotten up after the initial takedown. Then after he’s up the cop misses at least 20 chances to trip him or switch grips and execute a throw. Then he goes for the taser.

      The suspect isn’t really fighting. More like haplessly trying to sort of escape. If he was really fighting I’d hazard that this cop would have lost, badly. Just his utter lack of cardio shows him to be in dire straights 90 seconds into a half-assed grappling match with someone who’s not really fighting. I know big fat dudes who are that winded after five minutes of rolling hard.

      The issues here appear to be training issues. Those don’t really lie with the cop. They’re with his department and whoever *cough* trained *cough* him.

      • Agree, also the shot seems like pest removal rather than anything justifiable. Cop was wrong six ways from Sunday here.

  13. The cop here had a bloody DRAWN TASER for Flocks sake. At any time he could have stepped back and used it. That’s what TASERS are for. What a complete Dick-Head. Here on the otherside of the Pond in the UK no Single manned Police Officer would ever get into a physical situation of this sort and if he or she had drawn his or her TASER he or she would have used it as a first resort at the first sign of a threat. This Officer was very very obviously undertrained under endowed with grey matter. I mean though the guy on the floor was struggling he did not seem to me to be presenting a serious threat. THis Officer4 should without doubt face serious MANSLAUGHTER charges but his superiors should be taking responsibility for allowing such an obvious Dick Head out on his own.
    OH and another thing YOU do NOT get close enough to a potential ‘perp’ so as to give them the opportunity to grab eoither your bloddy TASER or you firearm THat’s the WHOLE POINT of the TASER.

  14. Live like a criminal, act like a criminal, die like a criminal.
    Family gets paid millions in lawsuit.
    Only in America.
    Or, AmeriKKKa, as Brandon would spell it.

  15. 𝐈 𝐚𝐦 𝐧𝐨𝐰 𝐦𝐚𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫 $𝟏𝟓𝐤 𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲 𝐦𝐨𝐧𝐭𝐡 𝐣𝐮𝐬𝐭 𝐛𝐲 𝐝𝐨𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐧 𝐞𝐚𝐬𝐲 𝐣𝐨𝐛 𝐨𝐧𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐟𝐫𝐨𝐦 𝐡𝐨𝐦𝐞 𝐮𝐬𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐦𝐲 𝐥𝐚𝐩𝐭𝐨𝐩. 𝐄𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲𝐛𝐨𝐝𝐲 𝐜𝐚𝐧 𝐧𝐨𝐰 𝐠𝐞𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐫𝐭 𝐦𝐚𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐞𝐱𝐭𝐫𝐚 𝐝𝐨𝐥𝐥𝐚𝐫𝐬 𝐨𝐧𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐛𝐲 𝐣𝐮𝐬𝐭 𝐟𝐨𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐰 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐫𝐮𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐬 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐰𝐞𝐛𝐬𝐢𝐭𝐞. 𝐖𝐰𝐰.𝐢𝐧𝐜𝐨𝐦𝐞𝐬𝐛𝐨𝐨𝐬𝐭.𝐜𝐨𝐦

  16. With what see in this video, there is not enough evidence to fully judge what happened. The storyline is interesting, but is it in order and complete? Need to see all the video evidence. With what we have I don’t have a good feeling for it.

    Some made suggestions that when pulled over, turn car off, place hands on steering wheel and wait. That is good advice. Be polite, be direct and don’t give your life story to the officer, you may incriminate yourself further. I drive with my wallet accessible, so by the time the officer comes to my window my ID is on the dashboard and my hands stay visible the whole time. I haven’t pulled over in awhile, so not much practice with this.

  17. Seems like some intermediate force between a taser and a firearm might be appropriate?
    Pepper spray or bringing back the police baton?

    My son goes to school at Grandvalley which has part of its campus in Grand Rapids. He reports that the protests are getting pretty heated. Expect violence later today when it gets dark.

    • Pepper spray is deadly force according to our resident legal expert, Miner49er. If you use that, expect to be legally shot to death.

  18. I’ll never understand how someone can defend an idiot like this.

    My only hopes are that anyone who does will eventually find themselves in a situation with a person overpowering them and learns the hard way.

    And I don’t even like cops… but to defend the actions of this guy is next level stupidity. So many better ways to fight this type of “tyranny”, and physically fighting the officer is literally the worst one. You are alone, and this is a battle that even if you momentarily win, you will lose in the long run.

    Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

  19. Speaking of physical skills and police, I had a demonstration when I was arrested by two British MP in 1978 Cyprus. I was docile all the time but these two guys dominated instantly, did compliance hold to force my upper body down and raced me to the back of a Landrover and launched me so I did a forward flip and landed on my back. Zero injury, but let’s say physically shocked. No handcuffs. These guys had obviously practiced this endlessly. They had the whole package down, the verbal commands, the body language, fitness, all of it.
    I did notice that the cop who shot the man from Congo made a childish hand puppet gesture when he said “speak English?”, this, in my opinion, does not show good people skills, was unprofessional.

  20. A lot of these incidents would not happen if they gave back to the police the weapon they took away from them, “the Baton”. They help achieve compliance very quickly and are a great defensive tool as well.

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