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Carter Goodwin of Gays Against Guns NJ writes:


Thanks, Robert for inviting me to clarify my clearly trollish comment to your post “Gays Against Guns Get Disproportionate Publicity” and for your persistence in getting me to engage with you and your readers on the issue. It helped me to think through my position on gun rights and ownership in America, and even a bit about my experience as a gay man. I don’t speak on behalf of Gays Against Guns NJ.

I’m going to skip a point-by-point rebuttal of your piece, for a couple of reasons.

As I mentioned in an earlier email, if I were your editor, I would have shortened the title of your piece to “Gays Get Disproportionate Publicity,” as it seemed primarily to be about diminishing gay people’s right to advocate for themselves, (however disproportionately they’re rewarded for it). I only know my experience of being gay in America, and largely disregard opinions about homosexuality from people who aren’t gay, unless they promote our destruction, in which case I fight them tooth and nail.

I also wrote to you that I wouldn’t rebut your piece point for point because I don’t have the time. That wasn’t the whole truth. I also lack the temperament and frankly get exhausted arguing details and sources.

We all agree that facts can be cherry picked and twisted. It’s a never-ending argument that’s been running for years. I emailed you a well researched and sourced one-sheet of facts that Gays Against Guns NY prepared, but then you wanted to ‘put the stats in perspective,’ whatever that means. I believe my sources and you believe yours. That won’t change.

There are many theories about the Orlando shooter’s motivations, but gay people know what it was. Orlando was homophobia writ large. As gay people, we live day-to-day with domestic terrorism. We live with the terror of being bullied, beaten, and killed. It happens every day in nearly every city in the country. Orlando happened in a nightclub, one of the few safe spaces that gay people have in America.

When I think of guns in America, I picture the scene in the Orlando nightclub. Over the booming bass of a remixed Madonna tune, or maybe Gloria Gaynor’s “I Will Survive,” a classic gay anthem, I hear the ‘pop’ ‘pop’ of gunshots, the acrid smell of smoke fills my nose, and I slip on the floor wet with blood and white knives of bones.

The blood splattered disco ball still turns, pinpointing lights skulls cracked open and brains blasted across the walls and floors. I smell shit from bowels torn open and the contents of stomachs still warm. I hear the cries of the injured, the rattling last breaths of the dying, the hyperventilating breath of those hiding from the man armed like Rambo, and the desperate moan of cell phone vibrators, begging for a reply.

There is one inarguable number that animates my rage. 91 gun deaths each day in America. Mostly suicides. Many minorities in blighted urban neighborhoods. Fewer, but just as devastating, children, women and men gunned down by their fathers, mothers and siblings. Some accidental killings, a few mass shootings, and a few killed in self-defense (I can hear you all grumbling about that nebulous claim).

When you hear the word gun you may think of freedom. Here is the reality.

(courtesy NJ Gays Against Guns)

(courtesy Gays Against Guns NJ)

The man and woman in these photos survived gunshot wounds to the face.

When I wrote that I didn’t have time to debate the issue with you, it’s because I’ve made the choice to focus my talents and energy on the chain of death that leads to the annual slaughter of 33,000 some odd Americans. You ‘gunlickers,’ (as my ‘libturd’ compatriots and I like to demonize you), are at the bottom of the chain.

At the top are the investors and gun companies that profit wildly from every new mass shooting, every suicide, and every accidental death. Fear increases gun sales, that increase availability of guns, that increases mass murders, that increases fear, that increases profits.

I’m inspired by the poorly chosen words of James Debney, Smith & Wesson’s CEO. His motto is “Focus. Simplify. Execute.” I have focused my actions not on you or the second amendment or your right to bear arms. I am focused on exposing the gun companies’ actual product: fear, death, and human destruction. My purpose is to break the death grip the gun industry has on the conversation.


-Carter Goodwin
Gays Against Guns NJ

NOTE TO COMMENTERS: No flaming of Mr. Goodwin will be tolerated.

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    • The group should be called “Gays Against Civil Rights”. As for Mr. Goodwin, maybe he can get a tattoo that says, “I’m gay. Please don’t shoot me.” I’m sure that’ll do the trick the next time he visits one of the delightful ‘inner cities’ of NJ.

      • Maybe he can get some shirts made up that say “Murder Free Zone” and make it mandatory for everyone to wear them. It will then be impossible for anyone to commit murder and therefore he won’t need try to ban guns anymore.

        • Quick, somebody ask Mr. Goodwin his salary at the Gay Anti Gun Group. And where the money comes from. Follow the money folks.

        • I’m not sure if that is really needed. Whether he is incurious, refuses to accept the actual role that guns play in keeping people (of all types) safe, or whether he has been PAID to “not go there”, the result is the same.

          In deliberately reducing the role of a defensive gun to actually shooting an attacker to stop them, he seriously minimizes and flouts his ignorance of how guns are actually used in many (probably MOST) cases.

          The bad guy threatens, or begins to attack. The defender produces a gun. The attacker stops attacking.

          Sometimes the bad guy gets shot, but often he does not. Often NO ONE gets shot; just the presence of the gun in the defender’s possession is enough to stop the attack. Whether or not the attacker gets shot, the attack was successfully stopped by a gun. Sometimes (often?) no report is made by either party, for a multitude of reasons. But that doesn’t change the basic fact: The presence of the gun in the defender’s hands stopped the attack.

          Just having the gun is not enough; the defender MUST know how and when to use it, in case the attacker presses the attack even in the face of an armed defender (as often happens with drugged or mentally ill attackers). But the vast majority of attacks that are stopped by a gun, involve no shots, no reporting, and no publicity. Knowing this, if you ask enough people, the stories will come out; stories of how having a gun available saved their life, or thwarted an attack (or potential attack). Some folks have even sent criminals running by just ACTING like they had a gun (reaching into a pocket or purse and locking eyes with the assailant). This is a poor substitute for actually HAVING a gun, but it’s better than nothing, and it serves to illustrate the power of a gun in the hands of a defender; criminals do NOT want to run the risk of getting shot. This once happened to me, in an area where I could not go legally armed.

          Honest Americans know the truth, know how deterrence works, know that millions of people have been saved from serious injuries or death by the presence of a gun. Even some less-than-honest American know the truth, but they don’t want to let it spread, because the truth is not on their side of the argument. This is borne out by the long list of anti-gun celebrities and politicians that own guns, or hire armed guards to protect themselves and their families.

          They know what works better than anything else — good folks with guns, standing up to the bad folks. It works.

        • Ghost shirts revised. Didn’t seem to offer much protection the first time around. Just ask the Lakota at the Wounded Knee Massacre.
          Senior Gun Owner 1950

      • Actually it should be “Gays for Gay Bashing”.

        If he thinks the police are going to protect him as an individual, he needs to put down the crack pipe.

        Any “threat” from which the police can “protect” you as an individual either isn’t:
        1. immediate
        2. a credible threat to life and limb

        You’re about as likely to be “protected” as an individual by the police from an immediate and credible threat to life and limb as you are to catch Amelia Earhart, Jimmy Hoffa and Bigfoot in a threesome in a cheap motel room down by the airport.

    • Par for the course with anti-gun people. “I didn’t have time for facts, so feelz is all I need.”

      I’m sure if my rebuttal included “I could post dozens of videos on people being knifed or beaten to death (even in their own home), but I don’t have the time and it’s just too exhausting”, Mr. Goodwin would take that statement about as seriously as I took his article.

      These people seem content on being perpetual victims. I’ve seen helplessness and no amount of good think or signage, or “moar lawz” or bullshit “safe spaces” will ever protect these individuals. Further, Mr. Goodwin lives in the gun control Mecca of New Jersey, so all the so called “politically popular solutions” already exist in his state. At least this group is finally quazi admitting they are “against guns” as a rule, even if Mr. Goodwin made a token “I’m not against the 2A but ” statement toward the end of his post.

      • Good point. Whenever I hear “gun deaths” I think: political agitprop meme. Fact is, 4 out of 9 murders and suicides are by means other than gunfire. But they don’t seem to matter – it’s all about being “against guns” not against murder and suicide.

      • “I believe my sources and you believe yours.”

        To the extent anyone feels this way, there can be no legitimate “conversation” or realistic possibility of agreement. Certainly, debate will not be productive.

        Without informed voters, democracy is a sham. We all know that advocacy groups have agendas, but unfortunately mainstream news media and even government agencies do too. It is often difficult to drill down to hard facts, but it simply needs to be done in order to make intelligent decisions. It is the responsibility of voters to make the effort. Just because it may be difficult does not relieve voters of this responsibility. It’s the price one pays for a seat at the grown-ups table. If you are not willing to accept the responsibility, you will not in effect remain a citizen, because you will have ceded your power to whomever is willing to tell you what you want to hear.

      • So when do they drag out (no pun intended) baby seals being clubbed? One thing in the gun ownership conversation is absolutely true. That is not everyone should own a gun. Not that they should be barred from owning one but they do not have the mental stability to own one. The one’s that everything is drama and they can barely cope with navigating each day under the umbrella of the gay lifestyle. The fight or flight reaction is missing with many (liberals, gays) and the third leg on this stool is to fall on the floor or lock yourself in a bathroom stall and beg for mercy.

    • Some suggestions for more appropriate organization names:

      Gays for Emotionally-based Logic-free Decision making (GELD)

      Gays Vapidly Shilling for the Progressive Agenda

      Gays In Denial of Historical Progressive Eugenics

      Gays Ignoring the Concept of Statistical Relevancy

      Gays Against Liberty Because Feelings

      Gays Surrendering To Emotional Manipulation

      Gays Believing in a Vast Gun-Wing Conspiracy

      Gays Plugging Their Ears Screaming Nanananaananana!

      Gays For Defenseless Subservience To The State

      Gays Against Historical Perspective

      Gays For Placing Sentiment Before The Good of Humanity

      Gays Demanding Tyranny

      Gays Whistling Past the Graveyard

    • “disregard opinions on the subject from people who aren’t gay”

      pretty much says it all, and might be one of the underlying points why many heterosexuals resent homosexuals’ attitude of superiority.

      Can’t say I really care what another person chooses to do with their body if it doesn’t have a negative effect anywhere else in the universe, and I totally understand their struggle against the Victorian morals which are still prevalent in our supposedly civilised society today; but… sticking your ding-dong in another man’s exit hole is just plain wrong in my opinion.

      • Yep the Gay Mafia pronounced attitude of superiority is getting real old real fast.

        I used to have a “live and let live” attitude towards them but the last few years I’ve shifted towards a real dislike of their tactics, attitude, and hatred towards non gays. I’m sure they are stupid enough to keep overplaying their hand to the point that there will be a well deserved reverse swing of the pendulm.

    • I’ve read through the comments and though I should jump back here to the top to leave this impression:

      Mr. Goodwin is a Troll. RF called him out as a Troll and he has essentially admitted that he was trolling this site. What other sort of response can you expect from a Troll? They have no depth to their supposed arguments and no willingness or ability to support their position or seek information or dialogue that does not support their preconceived position.

      Some Trolls are more literate or persistent than others, but in the end they cannot stand up under reasoned debate and presentation of facts. In this regard Mr. Goodwin is no different from any other Troll who only wants to sow discord without any logic to back up his contrary claims.

      Bottom line, disarming all the Good Guys (as if that’s even possible) will never protect him and his friends from danger, it will only provide more defenseless victims for the Bad Guys. Past that point no argument can be made.

      • Yep. Exactly. This whole post was nothing but a giant emotional atom-bomb. A big, fat, progressive, trollish dump on the whole idea of civil debate.

    • He made a well reasoned, if misguided response, so I give him some points for that.
      The photos seemed a bit over the top if he thinks they are the best argument against guns. We all know that some people get hurt of killed with guns and it isn’t pretty. Similar photos could be made after incidents from motorcycles, cars and ladders.
      We live in a big country and world and there are injuries and deaths caused by almost every device. That by itself doesn’t mean they should be banned.

    • You left out the part where he expects us to listen to, and agree with, him. Typical “Professional Victim” garbage.

  1. “As gay people, we live day to day with domestic terrorism. Terror of being bullied, beaten, and killed. It happens all the time.”

    Great reasons to arm yourself to at least have a chance to fight back.

    • Gracie Jui-Jitsu offers a “Bully-proof” program suitable for kids and women. I bet it would work for gays as well. Stop crying and whining and find a way to stand up for yourself. If you won’t accept the most effective way to defend yourself against the abuse you KNOW is coming your way, at least learn to defend and disengage without having to wait three hours for the cops to show up.

      Also, I fail to see the purpose or value of the pictures. We all have a pretty good idea of the horrors of being shot – and most of us here know that it will never be OUR gun used to cause (intentionally) such injuries to innocents. Our guns are intended to prevent such injuries from happening to the good guys. Can you really say that you would object to seeing the crazy mass-murderer in such a photo as opposed to the unarmed and defenseless patrons of the club?

      Condition White pretty much describes that nightclub and most others. So long as that mind-set endures and groups like Gays Against Guns believe that guns are the problem, not the crazy shooters, they will be helpless victims over and over again.

      You have my sympathies, on many levels, but defend yourselves and stop pretending that taking away MY right to self-defense will somehow make you and your friends safer. The world doesn’t work that way.

    • You know the thing about a liberal is just a conservative that hasn’t been mugged yet?

      A member of Gays Against Guns is a Pink Pistol that hasn’t been bashed yet.

      • Follow the money, as usual. A few executive people at the top of these organizations are making money off of whipping up a few hundred victims (gays in this case) for whatever particular cause. Grants to finance the executives salaries via the government or Bloomberg. Same as it ever was. Arguing details within those at the top is meaningless. They only care about their next source of funding.

    • No kidding, passthebass. Way to undermine your own argument there, Carter.

      At the risk of relying on a cliche, I’m going to present the fact that I have worked in theater and film since I was twelve years old as proof of my gay-friendlieness, and then go on to say that was a dogshit “rebuttal” with absolutely no substance beyond the childish idea that guns can somehow be magicked away from evil people by making them harder for good people to get.

      Tool up, stop being afraid of your protection, and defend yourself and those you care about from the people who would harm you for who you are.

      Lastly, why would you think that gory pictures would stop me from defending myself, my wife, or anyone else? That just shows a level of immaturity on your part that is, frankly, a bit unseemly.

    • But if you tool up and aim to protect yourself how can you continue to be a victim and point fingers? First of all he’s in jersey so your required by law to be a victim. Which is cool for him because he loves that victim card quite clearly.

      I wonder how he would feel if we lobbied to take away his first amendment rights because we find him offensive. Never going to happen and this is what he doesn’t get. We care about all the amendments. Especially the one that gives them teeth so those who would strip that, cannot. God help us if fools like this guy ever succeed. He will hail the death of the second and realize he’s a useful idiot when he gets the slammer for trying to exercise his first. Yea buddy one doesn’t exist with out two. Good luck with that.

    • I read this line and the first thing that came to mind was that this was THE VERY REASON Pink Pistols (a gay pro-gun organization) was founded, as gays in San Francisco were (and are) unable to legally carry firearms to protect themselves from such violence. Why do the same facts lead two different groups of gays to come to entirely opposite results? Maybe the OP can explain, because it seems to me that the odds of banning guns are so low that this targeted group is much more likely to be able to reduce the violence against it by arming up.

  2. Emotional response. He’d disarm us all, leaving us to those whom obey no laws other than the law of the jungle. Notwithstanding the, ever looming, potential for government tyranny under ‘progressives.’

    • Yeah, pure emotion without any logic or rational thought.

      Hey, if you want to be a victim, then be a victim. We don’t. And you can’t make us.

  3. Is the graphic image supposed to pull my heart strings and get me to change my position on gun ownership?

    What if that image was the result of a lawn mower or chainsaw accident? How about a mangled body after a car wreck? Should I be moved to ban lawn mowers, chainsaws or cars?

    While heartbreaking to see, I do not let my emotions guide me but rather my logic. Guns are weapons and tools. Used incorrect or with malicious intent it can cause great harm but guns can and have also done great good in our society and history. Guns are tools that can only reflect the intents of its user. No different than a knife, bomb, or box truck. I will not be persuaded by images, only logic and reason.

    • The photo is supposed to convey the notion that guns are bad – look what a gun can do to your face! Unfortunately, for his cause, it also conveys the notion that there are wicked people in the world who will not disarm and cannot be dissarmed and if you encounter one of these people and you don’t have your own gun, that could be your face. Very counterproductive, if you’re trying to convince people to give up their arms you need to convince them they don’t need them anymore.

      • Very well said. I quickly asked myself if I’m an awful person if my only reaction to those photos was a total lack of emotion beyond thinking how terribly helpless both of those people had to feel in the moment before it happened. I decided I’m not a terrible person.
        Then again, I grew up in a sporting family and saw from a young age what happens to something that has been shot. Yup, that’s what a rifle round at close range will do…

        • To be honest, having had a skin graft 23 years ago, my first thought was thank God for plastic surgeons. Before you need one you might think they’re all about boob jobs, but once you sit in one of their waiting rooms you realize that half of these people are construction workers with mangled limbs, etc. If your wounds are bad enough to turn your orthopedic surgeon’s stomach he’ll ship you out to the plastic surgeon. They’ve got a long road to haul, but a hundred years ago they’d have been given a mask and sent on their way.

    • Speaking of tools, would Mr. Goodwin feel differently today if the armed guard at the door of the club had managed to get in a lucky shot through the face of the shooter before he made it into the club itself?

      The club had armed security (ineffective as it was), and every one of their patrons entering that venue had to pass this security point. Did any of them object to the gun being present? Would they have objected to the officer emptying his magazine into the attacker?

      He is a flaming hypocrite, as are they all who propose more gun control rather than learning to control a gun of their own. If one LGBTQ out of ten was carrying concealed on any given occasion I suspect the incidences of bullying, harassment and other sorts of attacks would taper off dramatically and quickly. But I suspect in the long run they do not trust themselves with firearms which is why they don’t trust us with firearms. There is no way to win a debate in that scenario

      • There’s more truth in those last two lines than most people realize.
        Projection isn’t just something that happens at movie theaters.

        Anti-gunners fear guns, or (more commonly) fear what they might do in one of their uncontrollable infantile fits if they had access to guns, and simply can’t grasp the concept that everyone else is not like them (emotionally pre-loaded and ready to snap).

    • I’ll see his photos and raise him ISIS videos. You know, the one showing beheadings, burning alive, drowning in a cage, wrapped in det cord, a truck careening down a crowded street and anything else they could think of to amuse themselves.

      I noticed a theme though. It basically went like this. “I would rebut you point by point, BUUUUUUUUUUT, I don’t have the emotional maturity or patience or the facts or the desire. The epitome of feelings over rational thought.

      Since people like him are out there, they are just another reason to carry a firearm. They have little to zero control of their feelings.

    • By no means would it be appropriate, however, to post photos of HIV/AIDS patients with cancer or other, otherwise rare ailments consuming their bodies, eating their faces, whatever. Because gays are an uber-protected species. As gun owners should be, but aren’t.

  4. Well, seems to be a fairly honest and thought out response without being considening.

    I like bottom line. You either have the right to defend yourself with a gun, or you don’t. Either way you believe, there are negative side effects. I believe you do have that right to the point it is a responsibility.

  5. I just can’t believe that someone whose personal rights are being threatened every day wouldn’t understand the value of a firearm. Of course it probably not as bad in the northeast as it is in good ole NC. But once his choices become a matter of legislation he will probably get it. Sorry RF

    • If a victimized person takes arms against their persecutor, or stands up for themselves, they are no longer a victim. By remaining unarmed, the victim can retain victim status, which gives them “points” in their sjw social circles. Gays who arm themselves don’t get bashed. But if they’re not getting bashed, then they have to look for a new narrative to maintain some form of victim status.

      And before my comment is marked as “flame”, I am not Attacking the author’s sexuality, I’m confronting the the reality of a social phenomena.

      • “Gays who arm themselves don’t get bashed. But if they’re not getting bashed, then they have to look for a new narrative to maintain some form of victim status”


        “There are many who find a good alibi far more attractive than an achievement. For an achievement does not settle anything permanently. We still have to prove our worth anew each day: we have to prove that we are as good today as we were yesterday. But when we have a valid alibi for not achieving anything we are fixed, so to speak, for life.” –Eric Hoffer

  6. At the end of the day people are responsible for their own actions and can use any number of tools to perpetrate the same atrocities. Guns are not the issue; murder, suicide, and these atrocities he is concerned about existed long before guns. If guns disappeared tomorrow, we would still have all these problems. Our societal issues and how people deal with them today are the issue.

  7. Mr. Carter, it’s sad that you seem to be able to look at something and not “see.”

    1. The Orlando nightclub massacre was murder, plain and simple. Mass murder of other human beings.

    2. It was not motivated by “homophobia.” Where did that term ever come from? Who is afraid of homosexuals? No, the killer was a Muslim, and he committed an act of terrorism against people Muslims do not fear, but rather HATE.

    3. While it may be a truism, the slogan “if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns” is true. Very, very true. The mostly law-abiding patrons of the nightclub were in fact obeying the law, and were not armed that night. The criminal? Well, he certainly was armed.

    4. We don’t live in a utopia. Rather, we live in a flawed world, inhabited by mostly good people, but also some really evil people. Feel good laws don’t work. If you really want to be safe, arm yourself.

    • Not only that, but:

      “and a few shot in self defense (I can hear you all grumbling about that claim).”

      That’s a legitimate claim. However, he fails to consider that most people who defend themselves with a gun do so without having to kill or even fire their weapon. I guess it’s easy to miss this fact when all you care about is gun deaths though.

      • “…and a few shot in self-defense…”

        Wow. Anyone could go to YouTube and spend hours and hours watching videos of people using firearms to defend themselves against criminals. And those are only the ones that happened to have video footage.

        As you have noted, the vast majority of defensive gun uses end without firing a shot, or if shots are fired without anybody dying. Unfortunately medical first responders are not allowed to decide whether or not they wish to save any particular individual and so the Bad Guys are just as likely to survive as the Good Guys. One of the reasons (among many) I got out of that particular business.

        • I think he meant shot in self defense as the ‘gun owners are more likely to be shot defending themselves’ trope. Truly silly. Of course some gun owners are shot trying to defend themselves from being shot.

  8. So… He claims that the Pulse Club in Orlando was a ‘safe space’ for people like him then describes in detail the tragic fallacy of gun free ‘safe spaces’. If that’s what my idea of a safe space was I’d be kitted up like a Navy Seal 24/7.

    • I believe Mr. Goodwin’s reference to a “Safe Space” meant that it was a safe place to be openly LGBTQ, not that it was a place to be safe from attacks such as occurred. If they really thought that there would not have been armed security at the door.

      • In that case I’d urge him to reassess his safety priorities. If he’s more concerned about being mocked or insulted than being shot down in cold blood. There’s a whole group of people, a billion and a half strong who believe people like him should be tossed off tall buildings.

  9. EXPLETIVE DELETED typical leftist. “I get too exhausted arguing my point, so I’m just going to insult you and play up my victim complex.”

    Mr. Goodwin, if you get too exhausted arguing with us, then perhaps you should reconsider your priorities. Being anti-gun is pretty topical right now. It is absolutely getting disproportionate attention. Being anti-gun, especially if you can lump in other “victimized” demographics, scored points in the liberal media. When was the last time you can remember a pro-gun activist being invited to write an entire guest column for an anti-gun blog he’d just trolled?

    Face it, you’re a media darling right now. Next week, next month, next year, when gun banning isn’t the topic du jour, will you still have the same fervor, or will you move to another topic? Something to keep your victim complex well-fed with attention? I assure you, us pro-freedom gun owners will never back down when our way of life is threatened.

  10. No flaming here is needed at all. Mr. Goodwin spoke well of his total, intentional disregard of any facts that even smell outside of his well-rehearsed talking points. The facts, he is underlining, do not matter. He is also honest enough to admit that he does not have the intellectual capacity to deal with facts; there is space within him only for his feelings, and the feelings have been packed to capacity. I would also point out, as if another fact makes any difference, that his feelings of the Orlando club being a “safe space” completely disregard reality (oh, what a surprise!) – it was never a safe space; it was only made to feel like a safe space. And the killer knew that and used it to his advantage. Mr. Goodwin may choose to believe that the killings were due to homophobia, but since the killer himself was either gay or bisexual, well, the facts don’t matter; he just refuses to accept that what they have created was in fact a safe space for the killer. With no intention of flaming, I can only summarize Mr. Goodwin as adulting – a forever teenager whose feelings override everything.

  11. So, those images? Yeah: that’s what happens to disarmed gays. Gays Against Guns apparently want to perpetuate the disparity between the innocent and the violent, thereby leading to the opportunity to create more such images. POTG want to level the playing field, to prevent the outcomes seen in those images.

    The rest of his response was a long-winded justification for avoiding any intellectual discourse.

    • Those images represent what happens when people intentionally shoot themselves in the mouth. He forgot to mention that, I’m sure it was just an oversight.

      What Mr. Goodwin doesn’t understand is that we already know what bullets do to living flesh. He should maybe google “prairie dog hunting” to see what a .22-250 will do to a rodent.

  12. “Investors and gun companies that profit handsomely from every mass shooting…”? Really? Sorry. everything else in his pathetic message is now without merit. No other comment to avoid flaming… Don’t want a 1st amendment violation on this 2A site….

  13. I’ll grant Mr. Goodwin some credit for a thoughtful and respectful response.

    I’ll also concede he has the right to feel any way he wishes about whatever issue he chooses.

    But I do not grant him what I feel is his delusion about “Orlando happened in one of the few safe spaces that gay people have in America”. Using his style, I think saying it was proven to be delusional is “inarguable”.

    I don’t believe that his conclusion that disarming the good guys, including the “bullied, beaten, and killed” members of the LGBT community, is the right thing to do. And I certainly don’t believe he has the right to ask or demand that anyone else disarm. As he and other similarly leaning members of his group persist in such a reckless course of action, I will resist them at all times and “fight them tooth and nail”. And firearm, if it should ever get that far out of hand. I sincerely hope it won’t.

    • We know that very rich and powerful forces are behind the civilian disarmament, such as Soros, Bloomberg, Clintons, et. al. These same forces have bought all the leftist/progressive/communist groups with their “donations.” The leftists will never cut their lifelines, no matter what; they’ll prefer to send their brethren to deaths in “safe spaces” than be cut off from the funding. The rest is just window dressing.

      • You get it. Their minds are not being changed by all the logical rebuttals from gun enthusiasts here. They aren’t even reading this. They don’t care. They care about their funding. Period. Regardless of truth.

  14. Those photos are NOT of straight-on-gay violence.
    I remember seeing them in a compilation of photos illustrating *FAILED SUICIDE WITH FIREARM ATTEMPTS*.

        • They DONT care about credibility. They care about funding. By whatever means necessary.

        • I don’t know that he explicitly stated they were from the Orlando shooting. Regardless, they were simply meant to be “shocking.” However, for the most part – to our audience, and anyone who hunts, they are not.

          But the mechanism really doesn’t matter. Bullet, knife, train, bomb, truck, pressure cooker. That is what they aren’t getting. They are looking to build prejudice against a mechanism and the under the force of law – enforced by people (with guns), they are looking to control your possessions and lifestyle, even though you didn’t hurt anybody. It has become apparent to them that you have the “potential” to hurt people with your particular mechanism while at the same time they ignore all other avenues to different mechanisms.

          All while never touching upon the root cause. If mass killings are on the rise and guns have always been available – then what has changed? They never want to address the tough questions.

        • Anonymous, I looked over what was wrote and he does not say the photo’s are from
          the shooting.
          But the rest of your post still stands.

  15. What continues to be ignored is the absolute failure of the Orlando PD to discharge their duties to Serve & Protect. How many of those who died were a result of blood loss and shock? How many would have been saved if they had received care in the ‘Magic Hour’ that trauma experts tout as being critical to patient care?
    Two Supreme Court cases have affirmed that to Serve & Protect has no legal real meaning and police have ZERO obligation to lift a damned finger to protect you. How can a government(or anybody for that matter) deny a person their right and ability to protect themselves and then deny responsibility for that persons well being?

    • I haven’t heard real confirmation, but the impression I was left with was that 10 heavily armed police pursued a lone gunman until he entered a crowded nightclub, then set up outside and listened to the gunfire while he murdered 49 people and shot 50 more, allowed 3 hours to go by before anyone decided to actually try to stop him. If that is not a good reason to carry every day, everywhere, drunk or sober, I can’t imagine what you’re thinking. The cops are NOT going to help.

  16. Mr. Goodwin’s response was very articulate…but emotional.

    I appreciate the time he took to write and sympathize for his plight. Most if all, I hope he continues to engage in dialog.

    Unfortunately, I doubt he has the capacity. Some people shouldn’t own firearms, he’s one of them.

    I’d love to hear from some more pro-2A gay people. You’ve had them writing on this site before.

    • I’ve thought about doing the whole gay-man-with-a-gun thing, but what kind of genitalia I like to rub against has absolutely nothing to do with my preference for XDMs, or my love-hate relationship with the Stoner platforms. I can talk about gay stuff, or I can talk about gun stuff. Sometimes I talk about gun stuff to gay people or gay stuff to gun people, but I don’t have sex with guns (not that it’s wrong – just wrong for me) so there’s really no overlap.

      So, yeah, we’re out here. We just don’t feel the need to tell other people how to live their lives, unlike some anti-2A people, or anti-LGBT people, or anti-anything people.

  17. “As gay people, we live day to day with domestic terrorism. Terror of being bullied, beaten, and killed.”

    And whose job is it to protect you from the terrorists, the bullies, the killers? Obviously the police can’t. And the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that the police have no duty to protect us.

    You have two choices:
    1) Take responsibility for your own protection, get trained and get armed accordingly, and advocate for laws that do not hamper your ability to exercise your right to protect yourself.

    2) Continue to believe the fantasy that more laws will protect you from the evil that has always, and will always, exist in this world.

    Feel free to make your choice. Expect resistance if you try to influence mine.

  18. My biggest pet peave is a bully. My second biggest, by a very small margin, is one whom allows themselves to be bullied. It doesn’t matter one bit if you are gay, straight, or other…defend and protect yourself and your families. A wise meme recently said…” if you are going to fight, fight like you are the third monkey on the ramp of Noah’s ark and brother, it’s starting to rain.”

  19. God made man. Sam Colt made them equal. If your a member of a victim class you don’t become a non victim by trying to turn everyone else into one. Your right to be gun free ends with your self. You can be as gun free as you wish, but you have no right to make sure I’m as gun free as yourself. If you feel that makes you a victim then its your fault, not mine.
    I’m sick of a vocal super-minority telling the rest of us we need to conform to their world view. I have no intention of disarming reguadless of any unconstitutional laws any idiot government signs into law.

  20. As a gay man, a coach for the Pink Pistols, a professional firearms instructor, and a once-upon-a-time-victim myself, let me say that one of those pictures could very well been me if I had not had my gun when I was attacked for my preference in genitalia. Instead, it was my homo-hating sh!t-stain attacker who went to the hospital, and who will think twice before ever jumping a fag again.

    Friend, I get you’re upset, and I’m sorry about that. But your feelings are completely, utterly inconsequential to me. I feel bad for you, but I don’t really care. Not any more than you care about me, which is not at all.

    There are people, Gays Against Guns being a fine example, who hate me for defending myself. Who shame me for using lethal force against a fellow human being. But I didn’t start that fight. I didn’t go looking for an altercation. So anybody who is waiting for me to apologize for not letting some jack wad use me for a punching bag because he thinks I’m an abomination will be waiting a long damned time.

    Considering the LGBT community has been gaining so much traction on the live-and-let-live front, you’d think we wouldn’t be so quick to try to tell other people how to live. It’s no different than what has been done to us, and frankly we – everyone – should be better than that.

    So, you do you and I’ll do me, but whenever you say “we” and “us”, know for absolute certain that you’re speaking for anti-gunners (who wholly agree with your message) and not gay people, who only agree with you about the gay part.

    Some of us refuse to be a victim.

    • There is absolutely positively flippin NOTHING wrong with using deadly force on a human being when legally and morally warranted. No one in the world, other than close family and friends, takes a higher priority at living than yourself.

      Don’t you ever feel the slightest bit of sorrow for doing yourself justice! Tell em to go pound sand.

    • + 100
      I am sort of at a loss here.
      I support gay rights. My daughter is gay and I love her and her partner with all my heart. I have had the pleasure of meeting and lobbying with Nikki Stollard to defend gay rights to protect themselves against violent attacks.
      I am glad you were able to share your story with us, I would hate to have seen you become a statistic because you were shamed into not taking logical, and sane steps to defend yourself.
      The LGBTQX issue is a broad and complex topic. I feel the author in this response is over simplifying the issue in regards to allowing those who are known to be targeted the ability to defend themselves.
      Robert was quite correct in his assessment of media coverage. It isn’t being against gays, but rather the fact that there is a known bias in media against those who support the second amendment.
      The Pink Pistols as a responsible organization in promoting safety, training, and lawful gun ownership to prevent hate attacks should be celebrated.
      His argument is fueled using typical talking points which are driven by fear, not reality.
      His organizations vilification of pro liberty, and safety minded groups is forcing those of the LGBTQX community back into the closet as it were. No one should feel shamed because they believe in being able to protect themselves another loved one’s with a constitutionally protected class of device. That stance alone invalidates his argument and does more harm then good to the community as a whole. I want my daughter and her partner to be able to protect themselves. I will fight tooth and nail to be able to protect that right as I never want to get a call in the middle of the night that they have become a statistic.

    • I hope you share your story often and proudly, Casey.

      From your tone, however, you sound a bit too sane and centered to be the type to go around trumpeting. Good for you, a loss for the rest of us.

    • So anybody who is waiting for me to apologize for not letting some jack wad use me for a punching bag because he thinks I’m an abomination will be waiting a long damned time.

      Fantastic sentence.

      This man gets it.

      (And on the off chance there’s someone out there who thinks I shouldn’t use the word “man” to describe this gay individual, he (or she) can fuck off after gargling nitric acid.)

  21. I don’t think gays have any more of a claim over “I will survive” than non-gays. There is nothing gay about it. The “Gay” in “Gaynor” doesn’t really count. Same goes for Donna Summer songs.

    • FWIW Ms Gaynor was inspired to write “I Will Survive” in response to her back problems.

      • What? Is that some sort of subtle joke?

        I Will Suvive, according to Gloria Gayner and every damn word of the song, is about a breakup of hers.

        You make up the weirdest shit.

  22. “Fear increases gun purchases, increases availability of guns, increases mass murders, increases fear, increases profits.”

    Other than the feelings in this post, this statement really caught my attention. It is a fallacy. If it were true, the number of shootings would be increasing every year. Instead it is decreasing. Basically he is arguing from a few false premises.

  23. The gun companies are not selling “fear, death, and destruction”, they’re selling GUNS. If you want to link an inanimate object with those emotions, go ahead. And the reason there’s a vice grip on the conversation is not the gun companies, or the NRA, Or whatever boogie man you want to blame, but the millions of law abiding gun owners in this country that don’t like being labeled as extremists, terrorists, insurrectionists, or “gun lickers” , and being blamed for these tragedies just because they own guns.

  24. With the mistreatment, discrimination and abuse gay people endure simply for being who they are, one would think the gay community would be a big supporter of gun rights to protect themselves from those who want to do them wrong. If I was a minority that had to go out everyday into “hostile” territory, I would feel the need to have protection against the “enemy” around me.

  25. Mr. Goodwin seems to have some good points until you review the robbery, kidnapping, rape, brutal beating, and murder (burned alive) of the Petit family in Connecticut. As I seem to recall, the two perpetrators did not have firearms. And neither did the family. Had the family been armed, the father probably would not have been beaten nearly to death, his wife and daughter not raped, and his wife and both daughters not burned alive.

    Mr. Goodwin is entitled to any feelings he wants and is free to implement the best solution for his situation. What Mr. Goodwin is most certainly NOT entitled to do is interfere with MY options to choose the best solution for MY situation. That is a direct attack on my rights. Note that my solution for my situation is NOT a direct attack on Mr. Goodwin’s rights.

  26. I have a relative that is gay. She carries. On and off duty.

    Orlando was horrible. We all truly feel for the victims. In all those people that were present, where were those that would stand up to evil? Who charged the gunman when he fumbled a reload or his gun jammed?. I’m pretty sure I read about a jam. Who threw beer bottles? A chair? 10, 15, 25 people throwing bottles, chairs, tables, or even shoes could have changed the outcome. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen.

    Stand up to evil. Shoot back.

    • No, it didn’t happen. Because those people were well trained to live and die as victims. It brings more attention, more money and, ultimately, assures more control. But don’t worry, the ones that are in control and pulling the strings of the victims, have well armed security. They are not at risk.

  27. Seeing as Mr. Goodwin appears to be set-in-stone with his opinion with a grudge against anyone that criticizes GAG (i.e. “..I would have shortened the title of your piece to “Gays Get Disproportionate Publicity…”), I’m not going to waste my time.

  28. Yet another poor soul who honestly believes that it is someone else’s responsibility to protect him.

    You alone are responsible for your own protection. Police can not be everywhere and can not stop every crime.

    If you think prohibition makes you safe – pickup a history book and start reading. Prohibition has never made anyone safe. Prohibition of guns will go as well as prohibition of alcohol, drugs, and prostitution.

    Gays against guns champion civil rights they agree with – and at the same time seek to infringe on civil rights they disagree with.

    The irony of that hypocrisy is lost on them.

  29. I didn’t realize that we needed to pull stuff off of’s mirrors. Links next time please, kids in the room that are far too curious.

    This naive soul believes that violent criminals care if guns are against the law. It sems to be working out pretty well in Mexico with burnt and dismembered corpses on freeway overpassess and murder rates even higher than the US. Lets also take a moment to reflect on a common target of Democide. Oh, wait that happens to be minorities such the LGBT community.

    This person is also naive in the fact that the police DID NOT and are NOT OBLIGATED to protect them. If some one besides the first responders and security that failed to protect the crowd had SHOT, beat, tackled or otherwise stopped this guy then he wouldn’t have been able to continue shooting, and would have have been able to render precious life saving medical treatment to people. Quite frankly the best tool available to us today to stop a maniac like this is a gun.

    This person is naive to believe that he wouldn’t have killed people anyways. The this is the second worse club mass murder in history. The weapon of the first? Gasoline and some matches. No background checks required and no capacity limits.

    • I didn’t realize that we needed to pull stuff off of’s mirrors. Links next time please, kids in the room that are far too curious.

      Well, to be fair, it does say right in the headline in capital letters with an exclamation point after it GRAPHIC IMAGES! but sure.

  30. OK, I get it. It’s the guns’ fault. It’s the manufacturers’ fault. It’s the NRA’s fault. It’s Donald Trump’s fault.

    It’s everyone’s fault except for the person who did the killing.

    What I don’t get is: what’s in the NJ water that makes people so freakin’ stupid?

    • “What I don’t get is: what’s in the NJ water that makes people so freakin’ stupid?”

      Whatever it is, I could always smell it when exiting the Holland Tunnel into Jersey City.

  31. No flaming? No problem, they’re already flaming.

    Article: That took a lot of energy to write “they scare me and my whittle feewings say they are eww”.

  32. Can’t believe I read all that.

    Ok, let’s twist and cherry pick some facts…

    1) Orlando was about an fing muslim doing i-slam who was also into homosexual behavior. Hunting gay people is what those types do. It is a problem. I’d like to help him with it. He’s instead hoping to help the bad guys make it my problem too.

    2) ONE armed mf could’ve fixed Orlando. I know that with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY, because ONE ARMED POS MF PERPETRATED THE KILLINGS, and his name was not Chuck Norris, nore end in “SEAL”.

    3) Nothing could possibly work/grind/force/compel make me towards possibly hating gays more than the fact that they are typically POS LIBERAL_PROGGRESSIVE_COMMUNIST (D) and flamboyantly vocal about it. I openly express, as often as I am able, how I believe that sh_t causes societal RUIN (or at leasts that SOCIETY CONTINUES DESPITE not because of it). So, NO, i am not a fan, but I am wholly against you when you are a numb nut (no-history-remembering mf) and you are against “arms”.

    4) The “gay issue” was brought up because one of your own (notice we’re not claiming, and even muslims [even the fing terrorist who sat behind Hillocrap] are backing away from him) shot some of you in one of your clubs, don’t be used AND I DON’T BELIEVE THE DEAD AND WOUNDED WOULD LIKE TO BE USED by the left into making it a gun-grab commercial.

    5) No CCW ever carried fear, death, or destruction. No one shoots fear at the range, or anywhere else. Such a statement is a projection of graniose ignorance, and it comes off as extremly whiney.

    6) Hatred of gays is sometimes just a demanded state. STOP DEMANDING IT. YOU ARE REALLY WEARING ME DOWN. Further, If you want to be “equal” you first gotta be something that people want to equate themselves to.

  33. “as the bulk of it seemed to be about diminishing gay people’s right to exist, however loudly.”

    That comment ran afoul of my memory of that thread, so I used the handy link to jump back and reread the whole thing, including the comments. Mr Goodwin, I invite you to do the same, as I don’t think you read it in the first place. The bulk of the article and the comments were thoughtful and addressed the error of your group’s ways and the silliness of the excessive coverage given to a “protest” of 4 people dressed like doofuses, posted here because of the link to firearms and firearm rights, WGAS about you?. If there was any freaking HINT that gays should be denied the right to exist, it was well hidden, how about pointing it out for me?

    You may wish to believe that you and your lifestyle are important enough to me that I would form an opinion, but they are not. On my list of the top million things I have to be concerned about, what you (or your next-door neighbor) do in the bedroom doesn’t even make the list, at all. Every gay man I’ve known (there have been quite a few, but then I’m old) has been brilliant or close to it, and contributed significantly to his area of expertise, whether military, tech, whatever. I get along fine with gays, but people who spout bullshit about firearms rights, uses, abuses, etc, and then refuse to address or discuss challenges to their lies or misrepresentations, really piss me off.

    You really used a lot of words to say you did not know what you were talking about, which was all I ended up understanding.

    • No kidding I have a lot of other things to worry about such as anti gunners like this trying to leverage their demographics to stifle MY rights.

  34. I wish those two people had been armed and shot that asshole in the first moment of the attack. I think (hope) the author does also.

    • As it turns out, those two people weren’t in the nightclub.

      They’re pictures of people who tried to commit suicide with a gun. Nothing whatsoever to do with Orlando; they just are there to show how horrible guns are.

  35. “…as the bulk of it seemed to be about diminishing gay people’s right to exist, however loudly.”

    That’s a stretch. But, I guess if you wanted that to be the message from the outset, then that’s how you’re going to read it.

    “Orlando happened in one of the few safe spaces that gay people have in America.”

    Gay or straight, there are no true “safe spaces” for anyone, anywhere, and if nothing else, Orlando proved that. It also proved that the cops, try as they may, can’t be everywhere at once, and it may be a solid three hours before they can show up in force to protect you. Everybody says, “It won’t happen to me- not today.” …the day before it happens to them.

    As for your two-paragraph violin solo followed by photos of disfigured victims: Are you suggesting that our emotions; our pity- should play a role in law making? Yes, you are. Come on- why else would you send those photos? Those images could just as easily be of the carnage we recently saw in Nice, or of any of the thousands of drunk driving victims we see each year in this country.

    If you have your way, and laws are passed which remove guns from the 99.99% of gun owners who who don’t commit murder anyway, what will you say when murderers simply use other tools to commit these acts? What will you say when the next murdering homophobe plows through a pride parade with an 18-wheeler?

    “The target of my actions is not you or the second amendment or your right to bear arms.”

    That’s just an outright lie. Tell me again what the name of your organization is…

    “I am focussed on honestly portraying what the gun companies are really selling: fear, death, and destruction, and eliminating their deathgrip on the conversation.”

    First, fear is a natural human emotion, and we all feel it from time to time. It is the impetus of your anti-gun stance. If death and destruction is what sells guns, then the 100 million+ gun owners in this country are grossly misusing their 250 million+ guns. How the industry sells guns is irrelevant. What I’m actually destroying with my guns, however, is relevant: sheets of paper. Can you handle that?

  36. I don’t need to flame the author because he negates his own argument…

    “\..The target of my actions is not you or the second amendment or your right to bear arms. I am focussed on honestly portraying what the gun companies are really selling: fear, death, and destruction, and eliminating their deathgrip on the conversation.”

    So you aren’t after anyone’s right to keep and bear arms? Then why is your group called Gays AGAINST Guns?

    Deathgrip….. not very subtle either. And, of course, it is the gun companies that are the problem just like it is the baseball bat manufacturers fault, and the lead-pipe manufacturers, the gasoline or match manufacturers…. everyone is at fault but no mention of the shooter?

  37. When I followed the link to the Gays Against Guns “Fact Sheet”, one statistic in it immediately caught my eye. It stated: “The homicide rate increased 40% in states without their own bans after the federal assault weapons ban expired in 2004.”

    That didn’t make any sense to me, so I followed the link provided from the fact sheet to the source data, a report titled “Gun Safety and Public Health, Policy Recommendations for a More Secure America”. It was prepared by the National Physicians Alliance and the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. (Clearly an unbiased source, we would all agree – sarcasm).

    The section of the report that is relevant to the claim in the fact sheet actually says: “Another study found that after the federal ban expired, there was a 40% increase in homicide rates IN AREAS IN MEXICO (emphasis mine) along the Texas, New Mexico and Arizona borders (states that do not ban assault weapons) compared to areas along the California border (where assault weapons are banned).

    This finding also supports the conclusion that restrictions on assault weapons and large capacity magazines can reduce the number of injuries and fatalities that result from a shooting.” So removal of the federal assault weapons ban resulted in a 40% increase in homicides in Mexico, but only in areas that abutted states that didn’t keep their own assault weapons ban. No other possible cause. Right.

    Seems to me like the Gays Against Guns “fact sheet” completely misrepresented that particular data point from the report. I didn’t check any others, but suspect there would be similar misrepresentations of data from other sources as well. Looks like the “fact sheet” ought to be titled “Made up/Misrepresented/False Fact Sheet”. Although I do give them credit for providing sources and links to source material. That’s more than most gun control types do.

  38. Uh oh

    Is it I having a dick so small that I have a confidence crisis, or does the guy sound condescending?

    That’s actually quite a good piece of moral high ground-grabbing right there, never forgoing even one chance at displaying how high and mighty his position is. People, learn from it.

    As for the actual content, meh.

    TL;DR: “I know I’m right even though I don’t know why you are wrong. I don’t even bother arguing, because you won’t convince me. And by the way, there’s no way to truth because I say there is not. Oh and by the way again, you suck.”

  39. Sorry to be a jerk, but maybe I should counter by posting pictures of people run over by the lorry driver in Nice. The only defense against evil is its fast removal.

    • Judging from your counterexample, you probably believe those are Orlando victims pictured. Nope.

      It makes even less sense than you thought it did. The pictures are not even as relevant as you thought; they’re a couple of suicide-by-gun attempts, utterly irrelevant except he wants us to look at them and think “oh how awful, ban guns!”

  40. I only have my experience of being a gun owner in America, and largely disregard opinions on the subject from people who aren’t gun owners, unless they promote our destruction, in which case I fight them tooth and nail.

  41. Meh, “you have your facts and I have mine” – let’s get back to arguing about whose feelings are more important. To me, that undercuts his whole point(s) – whatever they are.

    Face it, the Orlando shooting revealed something new about the precedence of victimhood in the progressive mindset; Muslims are higher than gays.

    This should be a sign to any intelligent person that:

    1) you’re being used for other peoples gains


    2) you are largely on your own

    Get hip to reality.

  42. It said…………….”I only have my experience of being gay in America, and largely disregard opinions on the subject from people who aren’t gay, unless they promote our destruction, in which case I fight them tooth and nail.”

    This sums up much of an important counter-illustration to be made, with a few changes of course.

    ‘I have my experiences as a constitutionalist and Liberty-advocate, along with a plethora of experience, evidence and assessments as to what subversive-collectivists (that is you Mr. Goodwin) are all about. I disregard the opinions (barring assessing them for the threat they pose), on subjects of Liberty, from people who are subversive-collectivists, because their ethic/philosophy of Collectivism absolutely promotes the destruction of the Constitution and Liberty itself and promotes inevitable totalitarianism. In that case, I fight them tooth and nail.’

    See how that works when properly corrected, cleaned up and when (to quote the S&W dude’s motto) one applies the concept of, “Focus. Simplify. Execute.” ?

    Leave my Liberty alone and keep your booger-pickers off my rights cause I will NOT give them up.

    Carry on.

  43. I’m not gay, and I’m not out for their destruction so my thoughts don’t matter to him, but if you’re willing to claim that you will fight tooth and nail for your survival, why not arm up to help ensure it?

  44. Way can’t homosexuals use the word homosexual and leave the word gay to its original meaning? Are they afraid of a simple word?

    • Yeah, I was pretty gay for my first 20 years or so, then the queers decided to screw up the usage of the word.

  45. “the chain of death that leads to the annual slaughter of 33,000 some odd Americans.”

    10,000, the vast majority of which are in some fashion related to inner city crime.

    20,000 of your 30,000 are suicides, and the fix that that issue is wholly different than the other 10,000, regardless of methods used. Firearms are near impossible to get in Japan, a country with the one of the largest suicide rates of the industrialized world. Heck, Japan has less than half the US population, but 25% more suicides in total, and 60% more per capita.

  46. Politicians “sell fear, death, and destruction, and eliminating their deathgrip on the conversation.” Not companies.

  47. Perhaps the author chose to use pictures of failed suicide attempts, and liberal progressives insist on in including suicides as “gun violence” along with murders and the like because…

    “UCSF researchers have found that twelve percent of urban gay and bisexual men have attempted suicide in their lifetime, a rate three times higher than the overall rate for American adult males.” …

    “We cannot take these suicide attempts lightly, as almost half of the men in our study reported multiple attempts…”

    Doubtlessly suicide is a complex mental health issue with many contributory and exacerbating factors, but it would appear to affect homosexuals in a overwhelmingly disproportionate way as compared to the general population. Seemingly, if you can’t trust yourself, you are less inclined to trust others.

    • Interesting! Hey, Mr. Goodwin, how about we pass a law that gays are not allowed firearms? Would that make you happy, or gay, or whatever?

  48. The whole, “I am not after you, I’m after the evil corporations,” argument is so lame. As if the only reason we like guns is so the gun corporations can make a profit. News flash, If Smith & Wesson started giving their guns away, we would still want to own them, carry them and use them. If Glock never turned a profit, the Second Amendment would still be important. If the NRA stopped taking donations from gun companies, millions of us would still be members. The only organization that sells “fear, death, and destruction,” is the Associated Press. Furthermore, the fact that you identify yourself as part of a group of people who are more likely to be physically assaulted, and then in the next breathe talk about limiting an individual’s ability to protect their self, is completely illogical. So, since Grand Master RF does not allow FLAMING in the comments section of this post, we are forced to use logical arguments against an illogical person. Robert, logic and reason left the stadium a long time ago with these people. It’s about time we use Saul Alinsky’s playbook against them. Ridicule is man’s most powerful weapon.

  49. Again their argument fails. They don’t see crime as the problem, they don’t see that criminals will find a way to arm themselves before to go out to prey on others, they blame the gun and our freedoms

  50. Gays can be against guns in New Jersey. But as for this one in Georgia, I’m keeping mine.

  51. If I was gay I would embrace self defence with firearms since Gays are a minority. But you can choose to have government stick up for you and try to legislate threats away. See how that works out.

  52. Perhaps TTAG should invite Pink Pistols to write a rebuttal to Mr. Goodwin and Gays Against Guns article.
    Pink Pistols spend a lot of time trying to educate gay community about guns and self-defense. They would be a perfect spokesmen on gays and guns.

  53. ‘I am focussed on honestly portraying what the gun companies are really selling: fear, death, and destruction, and eliminating their deathgrip on the conversation.’

    and the govt and mainstream media aren’t?! as long as you can only have an emotional response to a situation you’ll never make any progress.

    btw – “no flaming” is such an ironic term for the article about gays…

    • You got it. Thanks for the search. That is a compilation of weird and ugly sh*t that people have been exposed to, for various reasons, apparently including suicide bombings (some remains indicate a suicide bombing). The pictures speak for themselves – we, as a society, need to immediately ban suicide bombings, especially high capacity, assault suicide bombings!

  54. Ooooh lets use graphic picture in an argument to stir up people’s emotions! That will show them!.

    As for the slaughter of 33k people per year.
    50% do it to themselves!
    Atleast 80% of the remaining 16.5k people have criminal records. Criminals shooting criminals, police shooting criminals, and defensive gun uses against criminals.

    So at least 3300 people without criminal records are killed by firearms each year. This can include “accidents”, negligence, and people being at the wrong place; at the wrong time.

    Heart disease: 614,348
    • Cancer: 591,699
    • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 147,101
    • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 136,053
    • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 133,103
    • Alzheimer’s disease: 93,541
    • Diabetes: 76,488
    • Influenza and pneumonia: 55,227
    • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,146
    • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 42,773 (26,273 commit suicide without a firearm btw)

    3300 people without criminal records or people without an underlying mental illness is an unfortunate loss. But it isn’t worth giving up my rights over it. In 2015 there was about 19,000 deaths from automotive accidents. Arguably more than gun HOMICIDES. Yet you don’t want to give up driving to work now do you.

    Also before you mention “cars are made for travel, guns are for killing.”
    Who cares if guns are made to kill? It means they do their jobs as intended in regards to defense and protection. The best way to stop a threat, is to neutralize it.

    Also wanted to add 250,000 deaths annually due to medical malpractice.

    Only an fool would be anti-gun when a majority of the world hates them and wants to either throw them off buildings or when some bigots want to play “smear the queer.”

    L/G/B/T community is full of some really nice people. It’s a shame some of them fail to grasp the importance of self defense.

    • If we’re going to go by the numbers, and I’m not saying we should, because my right to self-defense is exempt from statistical justification, then we should look at deaths via government. Whether by wars or internal purges, government is by far the deadliest source of unnatural deaths. Many millions have lost their lives because governments govern without the consent of the governed, because they’re not, ultimately, restrained by an armed citizenry. Guns save lives.

  55. I’m willing to accept your lifestyle, even though I would never make that choice, yet you refuse to accept mine, and in fact, vilify me as if I am somehow responsible for criminal behavior.

    This reeks of hipocracy and intolerance, and a lazy unwillingness to look at the root cause of a problem, and instead simplify it to the point of absurdity.

  56. +100000000 Casey. Don’t shoot. yourself, get a gun and stop the whining. Man up. Oh- and Hillary doesn’t give a rat’s azz about you…

  57. It’s funny, except it isn’t, when somebody takes an hour and several hundred words to tell me they don’t have time for me.

    I got about halfway through this rant and got fed up with the raging prejudice, unsubtle insults, and self-loathing martyrdom. I don’t need anyone else to think for me. Neither do I feel compelled for one minute to suffer anyone else’s projection and paranoia wrapped in messianic fervor. Good day, Mr. Goodwin.

  58. All I got out of this is:



    My right to defend myself with a gun, supersedes your ignorance and irrational hoplophobia.

  59. You may think of freedom when you hear the word guns. Here is the inarguable reality

    That is the reality when your “safe space” as you call it isn’t actually safe at all and you put your trust in law enforcement helping you instead of you making preparations for your own safety. How long did it take them to get in there? 3 hours was it?

    Your shocking gory images are supposed to what? Make us rethink our position that guns cause carnage and people don’t?

    Take a look at Ronald Poppo’s face:

    A man’s teeth did that to his face. Nothing more than teeth and Ronald survived too.

    I’m sorry, you don’t get to decide for all of us that guns are the problem – even for the 33k per year. The two thirds that take their own lives, do so using a machine, yes, a machine to do so. But yes, all of this is the fault of the machine and not the hearts or minds of people?

    I am focussed on honestly portraying what the gun companies are really selling: fear, death, and destruction, and eliminating their deathgrip on the conversation.

    Gun companies sell guns – not “fear, death, and destruction.” Gun companies don’t have a death grip on the conversation. Millions upon millions of gun owners tired of “common sense” anti-gun fallacies. Fallacies like guns are the problem, gun manufacturers are the problem, when in fact it is the hearts and minds of awful people that make awful things happen. We all see it, but somehow the media and many other gun hating individuals have repackaged it and sold it to average Americans everywhere as “the problem of gun violence.”

    Lastly, when you say “death grip on the conversation” you really mean congress not voting in the manner that you wanted, right?

    What death grip do they have? Over the media? Nope. Only congress is the one taking their time and voting prudently. As well they should. When more than half of America doesn’t want it – then it makes sense that more than half of the representatives in congress also don’t want it.

    Is there any media outlet, any major media outlet at all, promoting a pro gun rights movement? Please. And you actually bring up “death grip on the conversation.”

  60. Mr Goodwin.
    It’s unfortunate that your organization seeks to force your cultural preferences upon others. I am a member of the pro gun culture and I absolutely see this in spades–meaning, I absolutely see anti gunners seeking to change a portion of my way of life.

    One may have expected gays to empathize with those at the receiving end of cultural imperialism. If so, one would, apparently, have been incorrect.

    A very, very large percentage of gun owners just want to be left to enjoy their pastime in peace. Leftists/ progressives/ Democrats refuse to do this. They constantly seek to reorder, restrict, and eliminate our activities.

    If you are a tolerance minded American, please consider this point.

  61. Dear Mr. Goodwin,
    You sir are a purblind fool sir. You prattle about being threatened and defenseless, and instead of taking steps to defend yourself you seek to render others equally helpless because you are frightened of the tools of self defense. The next time a wannabe jihadist decides to earn a ticket to paradise by shooting up a gay club, which would you rather have, a gun free zone sign to cower in front of before you are murdered, or a pistol to defend yourself? Apparently you are so craven that given the choice to die on your feet or live on your knees you will go one further and die on your knees meekly presenting your neck to the executioner.
    You disgust me with your whiny victimization and your urge to reduce others to your level of weakness. The Pink Pistols have the right idea, violence is met by resistance, not retreating to your “safe space”. You give gay men a bad name, with the likes of you Stonewall would have never happened

  62. What an incredibly long winded and condescending (gunlickers?) way to say “but muh feelz!”.

    In effect the author argues against his own position. Just for the sake of argument let’s say that those images were in fact from the Orlando shooting. OK, guns can cause horrific wounds. Everyone knows that, some of us from experience. The problem is that, as Paris and Charlie Hebdo proved, laws banning guns don’t stop terrorists from doing their thing.

    Does the author realize that at the Baticlan the terrorist assholes mutilated many of their victims before killing them and did so to the point that the French government actively covered it up? This is a group of people who will literally castrate you and put your balls in your mouth before killing you and that’s if you’re straight!

    If ultra strict gun laws can’t prevent mass castration and shooting how are they going to stop just the shooting? By arguing for civilian disarmament the author is in fact arguing for more attacks like the Baticlan, which was arguably worse than Orlando because the perpetrators tortured their victims as well as killing them. In fact, one kid was so brutally treated that the Paris morgue would only show the kid’s father a portion of one side of the kid’s face because the rest of him was too mutilated to be viewed.

    Truth and facts trump feelz. Unless of course you’re like the author and simply ignore facts, especially if those facts are presented by someone who isn’t gay.

  63. We are living in an increasingly “identitarian” society. When people self-identify with their own perceived ethnic, religious, sexual, or whatever “self” they choose, and come to see that as primary to their view of themselves, conflicts arise.

    When a single culture is almost totally dominant, say, White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, male, heterosexual culture, those with other identities must submerge their differences in order to survive.

    The evolutionary purpose of societies is not the promotion of individual rights, or even the survival of the individual, but the survival of the tribe. Societies (tribes) can take in a limited number of persons from other tribes, and socialize them into their own tribal norms. But tribes cannot contain warring factions within themselves. These factions must be either socialized to a large degree, repressed, exterminated or expelled.

    Whether you live in liberal Massachusetts or Florida you are living in a land where White settlers fought a race war with the indigenous peoples. Our ancestors killed, enslaved or expelled them. This is not something to be ashamed of nor to apologize for. It is just how human societies exist.

    Cultural Marxism uses Critical Theory to undermine one culture, ours, by promoting the made-up doctrines of “multiculturalism” and “equality”.

    • If it comes down to a contest of who self identifies as the “best” thing I’m gonna self identify as the Sikorsky S-97 Raider and start demanding landing pads, refueling stations and maintenance crews.

  64. Yawn….sorry I don’t have time for feelz filled diatribe from someone who doesn’t know what the hell he is talking about. I find it ironic that a group so concearned with what they feel is their “constitutional” right to be gay is begging to be stripped of one of their most basic rights. The right to self defense with a gun. I guess the old saying about Progs is true here as well….I like and support the rights I care about….and if you disagree I will call you one of the many assorted “phobes”. What a bunch of whiney hypocrites.

  65. Slogans and feel-good actions won’t stop Muslims from decapitating you, throwing you off a roof, or murdering you in some other vicious way, Mr. Goodwin.

    I just hope you and your supporters don’t have to find that out the hard way; and don’t think for a second “that won’t happen to me.” There are 49 people in graves in Florida who probably thought the same thing.

  66. First of all, calling us anti-gay is not an argument. I had numerous friends in highschool and college who were gay, and for years I was too naive to even notice. Even after I knew, they were just as much my friends as before (other friends of mine were shocked that I didn’t know).

    Secondly, I was almost a mass shooting victim (luckily the crazy woman, who had murdered her two kids earlier that day, just wanted to hold a university counselor hostage. It took 17 minutes for the cops to get over there, and she could have had free run of the place). That inspired me to start packing, so I can take a shooter down before they murder so many people.

    Meanwhile this individual says guns are evil, while saying nothing about militant Muslims, who throw gays off rooftops in their home countries. He even refers to gunsmoke as an acrid smell. To me, the smell of gunsmoke is the only drug I have ever abused, or become addicted (i get the sweats and the shakes if I stay away from the range for too long).

    He shows what bullets can do. I say we should use that for good, and do those same things to the terrorists who want to kill us.

  67. Another persons who wants to believe guns not evil people are the problem. He sighted 91 gun deaths everyday but how many of these deaths would have happened without a gun? Let’s take suicides, there are all sorts of ways to end it all without using a gun.. Look at Japan got instance, guns are prohibited Japan still leads the world in suicides.. The Orlando killer took 49 lives that night.. Back on March 25, 1990 in the South Bronx the Happy Land fire was started with a book of matches and a gallon of gas.. 87 lives were lost that night more later.. Taking away guns won’t stop any of this. The evil folks will still be out there and the law abiding citizens will have less tools to keep themselves safe.

  68. I agree with Mr. Goodwin that Orlando was about hatred of homosexuals. But it was hatred by a group that cannot be named because they sit on top of the Left’s victim stack. Me. Goodwin won’t name them because implicitly he acknowledges their right to murder him.

    Yes, there are people who attack homosexuals just because but the #1group that does violence to homosexuals are other homosexuals. Lesbians experience the highest rate of domestic abuse followed by male Homosexuals. Violence directed at people is wrong no matter what the reason.

    Finally, the inclusion of suicides is hypocritical since the same philosophy of personal autonomy that justfies homosexual rights gives the individual the right to terminate his own life by the means of his own choice. Let’s be honest, Big Gay thought normal public health measures to stop the AIDS epidemic violated the right to have sex with whoever, whenever and wherever they wanted. That was an act of murder suicide.

  69. He admits he doesn’t have the intelligence to argue points. I mean thanks for being honest but come on. This is the problem with gun control: its fueled by hate for guns and stubborn behavior. Its why I’m personally done with liberals. Doesn’t matter if you’re black, white, gay, straight, I’m not catering to this garbage anymore.

    He takes pictures from a website showing wounds. Hey buddy, go on a website called documenting reality and view human nature in its full glory. See what happens to people who get killed in horribly creative ways by the Mexican cartels, getting chopped and stabbed to death, having their faces skinned while alive. Human beings are horrible creatures and you think you’re self enlightened view on guns in America mean anything? They don’t. Not one f-ing thing. What about suicide? You think your social ways will keep people alive and happy? You can’t fix a badly broken mind. Some people will never see a sliver of happiness. When I was a young man I lost a friend to suicide. No matter what anyone said, how supportive we were, he was hell bent on offing him self. However that was his choice.

    You talk about the Orlando shooting; well how about you go tell the feds how you feel? Why don’t you hold the FBI accountable for their mess? Seems funny no one is doing this. Look buddy, I’m sure you have a job and when you mess up its your ass on the line! What sense does it make for more gun laws to be passed and the gun owners to be punished because no one wants to hold those who actually messed up accountable?

    My comments probably aren’t going to be seen but man…man I’m done with self righteous trends in this country ignoring common sense.

  70. Your facts from GAG are cherry picked, either from liberal news outlets that simply operate as the propaganda arm of the Democrat political machine or liberal universities that simply operate as the brainwashing arm of the Democrat political machine. The few that aren’t (eg. from the CDC) are only there to make role following fake “fact” more scary.

    I’ll lead you down a road of facts. Every year there are 33,000 gun deaths. 2/3rds of those are suicides so they are thrown out since method of suicide isn’t related to success. Just ask Japan. That leads 11,000 acts of gun violence, of which 6,000 are gang related. In other words, criminals killing criminals. Usually in those blighted areas that Democrat politicians either never visit or want to keep blighted so they can retain their power base…I’m looking at you Al Sharpton. That leaves 5,000 actual acts of gun violence per year. In a country of 300 million people. That is an incredibly low number. Statistically it can be rounded down to zero.

    You emotional argument is invalid as well. I would prefer to see a picture of Omar Marteen, his face laid open by a 9mm fired by a patron of the nightclub before he could shoot a single person. You would rather see over 100 people shot so you can feel secure in your smug, self loathing, morally preening convictions. It’s that simple.

  71. By his own reasoning, he is a homophobe because he disagrees with the Pink Pistols and thinks gays shouldn’t have the best means to defend themselves.

    Additionally, he claims that the arms industry abuses fear for profit while he posts gory photos in an attempt to scare and shock the reader.

    Self reflection is beyond him.

  72. I’m not sure why he believes what happened in Orlando happened in a safe space. Just because you are in a location where your beliefs or lifestyle do not meet with disapproval, whether it be a nightclub or a church, clearly doesn’t make it a safe space.

  73. One thing I am just tuning out anymore is so-called “gun fact sheets.” People on both sides of the issue have different ones that inevitably don’t match, so they can’t really be “facts.” Then they go further to allege cause and effect from those “facts” when cause and effect are not proven. Both sides do this.

    What the anti-gunners go further and do, though, is refuse to differentiate between law-abiding gun owners (the vast majority) and criminal gun “owners.” They include suicide and accident numbers in with crime numbers and while all are tragic, they are different problems with different solutions. They also conveniently don’t focus on all kinds of violent death (as if someone killed violently cares how it happened!) and only focus on firearms, because if they did that, they would have to show death by criminal action using a firearm is a relatively small percentage problem in the big picture. In addition, they talk like some of the BS legislation being proposed would even make a tiny dent in any of the problems they are complaining about.

    But here is my biggest pet peeve. They make noises like they “are really not trying trying to interfere with people’s constitutional rights, they only want common sense.” That is BS on the face of it. That is exactly what they intend and exactly what they are doing and wish they would just be honest about it.

  74. Out of 111 responses, let me add to the sole post from Casey – another gay gun owner and firearms instructor. Yes, I’ve been attacked too, but many, many years since any overt homophobia. Nobody seems to care these days. What has changed is the bunker mentality and herd protection behavior of LGBTs. Former ‘gay ghettos’ now house many straight families. Gay singles and couples have relocated to better areas because neighbors care about home upkeep, not the owners’ sexual orientation. I’ve changed too and become more selective in my friendships. Most are straight. – the opposite of 20 years ago.

    Civil rights attainment and progress in HIV treatment have been problematic for LGBT advocacy groups. Funding levels and membership have dropped precipitously since there’s scant reason to support them.

    Orlando presented a golden opportunity: gin up persecution claims (despite abundant evidence it was anti-American terrorism) and switch from equal rights to anti-2A. Sort of like the March of Dimes pivot after polio ceased being a public health concern. This has led to something of a civil war in the LGBT community.

    Gay activists in Pink Pistols know the play book. Many of us helped write it 30 years ago while advocating for more HIV funding and civil rights. We’re now focused on countering the false narratives, bogus claims, and virtue-shaming so rampant in groups like GAG.

    Shrieks of outrage when we wear rainbow #SHOOTBACK t-shirts and urge others to wear them to the next GAG protest. Always entertaining to see reactions when the homophobia card can’t be played and the anti-2A falsehoods unmasked.

    • Ironically, I’ve seen an up-tick around Seattle of LGBT people in recently-mostly-gay-but-now-mostly-Amazon-employees Capital Hill bitching and moaning about how they moved there to get away from the straights. Because nothing says “inclusive” like trying to enforce segregation, right? (that’s sarcasm)

      Sometimes, I will post gay-friendly gun-related things to social media. My statist friends get upset, but they can’t complain or unfriend me over a gay-friendly post for fear or being labeled homophobic by their own peers. 🙂

      • “Sometimes, I will post gay-friendly gun-related things to social media. My statist friends get upset, but they can’t complain or unfriend me over a gay-friendly post for fear or being labeled homophobic by their own peers.”

        LOL I love it!!

  75. It’s a shame that is the only experience with guns you have to relate too, over 350 rounds fired from my wife’s new G19 in the last 24hrs, not a single person injured and our family and friends all enjoyed the extra weight the 33rd magazine added to the pistol, for better aim and less reloading. The Orlando terror attack was based on complete psychopath first, second Islamic hate, and opportunity, the man went to his normal place and hurt others, killed others. I hated it. My family and I were within hours drive from the incident trying to have a vacation at the beach for a change of pace. We left that weekend and felt so much pain for all those lost no matter the type of person.

    Gun violence is a matter of VIOLENCE , not guns, it could be truck violence. We all learned that recently too.

    Everyone show some kindness and respect maybe that could help a bit.

  76. Geraldo Rivera and I are starting our own politcal activist group called “Pretty Much Straight Dudes Against Sissy Bitchs That are so Brainwashed They Would Rather Cower in the Bathroom Stall While Their Brothers are beiing Murdered by One Single Asshole with a gun and the Swat Team you called as Your Only Defense Against Said Asshole, Watches From a Safe Distance as you all get Slaughtered Like Sheep.” Anyone else want to join? You dont even really have to be that straight, just dont be a total bitch.

  77. He ignores the literally scores of successful defensive gun uses every year where mothers, fathers and just normal law abiding citizens, including gays, defend themselves from criminals who will have guns because they have no regard for gun control laws, or any other kind of law.

    Nuff said.

  78. “The target of my actions is not you or the second amendment or your right to bear arms. I am focussed on honestly portraying what the gun companies are really selling: fear, death, and destruction, and eliminating their deathgrip on the conversation.”
    OK, I’m game. Let’s eliminate their deathtrap on the conversation. Let’s suppose we close down all the gun companies. Now, no more profit motivation enters the conversation. We the People will go on making barrels, lower receivers, trigger groups, and things that go up. We will barter them; one barrel for two trigger groups and 8 lower receivers.
    The police and military will have to fend for themselves. There will be no Colt’s or S&W to take their orders. Let’s eliminate the importers too. No commercialization of guns whatsoever. Perhaps the Army could build a factory; and the Marines as well. But, they couldn’t sell their produce to the police. Nor could police buy their guns from We the People. That would be commercial.
    Now, can we have our natural and civil right to keep and bear arms? Now that we’ve eliminated “the gun companies deathgrip on the conversation.”?
    Or, do you have some other objection? Any at all?
    We, the PotG, have no particular interest in the gun companies and their profit motivations. We wish them well just as we wish GM and Ford and Chrysler well. We hope the all make better products each year and offer them to us at competitive prices. But beyond that, we don’t care about them. We don’t feel their deathgrip. Neither Colt’s nor GM’s.
    We would just like to have a person to person conversation: gun owner to hoplophobe. Neither one of us is interested in whether the gun companies make a profit or not.

    • I have a relative who has worked in the gun industry his whole career, distributing for dozens of manufacturers. He says the real irony of the “industry death grip” argument is that the gun industry, especially the non-military, non-LE segment, is not a high dollar market relative to other controversial markets with life and death implications like cars, pharmaceuticals, tobacco, aerospace and defense. The money gun manufacturers are able to spend on lobbying is tiny compared to those industries. The idea that they, supported by the NRA and the NSSF, have a “death grip” is ludicrous. The main power they have is that gun rights resonate with a large segment of the American people and therefore they can mobilize voters, not because of them having anyone in their pockets.

  79. Pretty Ironic that he would say “disregard opinions on the subject from people who aren’t gay” when after a few days of google-fu he thinks he can dictate to people of the gun how the government should infringe our rights because he doesn’t agree with it. We know the stigma given to us by the pearl clutching masses who feel the government is the only group responsible enough to have the monopoly on use of force. Until you strap up and walk a few miles in our shoes we pretty much disregard your opinions on gun ownership as well sir.

  80. “And Orlando happened in one of the few safe spaces that gay people have in America.”

    I think the facts disput that assertion.

  81. It’s the usual wave the bloody flag my emotions can’t handle facts because I feel “argument” from the usual suspect. And then, “I smell the reek of shit and the contents of stomachs blown open and still warm. I hear the cries of the injured, the rattling last breaths of the dying, and the hyperventilating breath of those hiding from the man armed like Rambo.” I don’t see the shooter with a belt-fed Light Machinegun, do you? Move along now, nothing to see here, more of the same.

  82. FLAME DELETED’s never seen the face of someone done in by a baseball bat, has he? Or a man dragged to death. Gruesome death comes in many flavors, but one of them is most effective in fighting back.

  83. He offered zero solutions and just parroted the decades-old shopworn party line of “gun companies profit from death”. And the not-so-old party line of having a “conversation”.

    Mr Goodwin, with all due respect, your side’s conversations are anything but. “Lecture” would be more appropriate. I’d say “scolding” but one of your compatriots recently told me that saying that term to describe someone’s speech is “offensive”.

    Enough air quotes though, Carter…I’m gonna boil it down for you.

    My friends and I are a few hours south of Orlando, down here in Miami. We work in nightclubs. We’re straight, gay, and pretty much everything in between. We’re not going to disarm ourselves because of your feelings. While you cower in the corner, we will shoot back.

    And potentially save your life, or the lives of your friends, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation or religious preference. The lives of good people are worth defending, by any means necessary, including lethal force. Recognize our natural right to self-defense. Learn from us instead of fighting against us. We’re people, just like you.

  84. Mr. Goodwin, your arguments fall flat on so many levels that I’ve decided I don’t have the energy to debate you (you see, my 13 year old son and I were at an event hosted by a gun shop and range in Minnesota, firing automatic weapons all day…but let me assure you if not the energy I definitely have the intellect.)
    What I will say is this: if you’re going to lead with the bullshit argument that Robert’s initial piece was a diatribe suggesting homosexuals have not the right to exist, then you’re not lying when you suggest you may not have the mental capacity for this sort of debate. Go read his posts. Nowhere will you find the faintest notion that rights are not deserved by us all. Frankly, he goes beyond and suggests that our rights exist to protect those who would otherwise be persecuted…like the gay community, for example.
    I think it is a shame that you couldn’t even bother to research Robert and the TTAG staff and it might suggest how much adult thought you’ve put into the topic of gun control vs gun rights.

  85. Funny. When I think about automobiles, in my mind I see images of all the broken bloodied bodies that have had the misfortune to lay before me in the back of my ambulance or helicopter. Where is the hue and outcry to ban cars, trucks, motorcycles, trains, planes, horses, bicycles, pair of nikes? How about the new images this week of ISIS (Clinton Foundation Traveling Team) throwing people off of buildings because they claim they are gay? Maybe we should tear down every building over one story to prevent it.

    Haters going to hate. Killers going to kill. Clinton’s going to lie.

    Keep your powder dry.

    I’m out.

  86. The only comment I have to make regarding those photos is: I’d really, really like to have the means to ensure that no one can do that to my face.

  87. First of, nobody not politically connected can legally carry any firearm in NJ. Second, islamic terrorists don’t really give a flying rat’s rear end about what a homosexual thinks. They’ll just kill them by any means possible. So, this guy is really delusional if he thinks that bad mouthing americans who carry guns legally is going to save him in the next terrorist attack.

  88. If modern liberalism (or progressivism, if you wish) continue to take over Western society, one outcome will include unarmed gays being throw off buildings under shira law. I’m not advocating for that outcome, in fact I’m doing all I can to prevent it, but it is the logical outcome of their agenda of a disarmed populace, the destruction of the foundations of Western society (including the elimination of traditional marriage and limited government, replacing fathers with the nanny state, etc.), and unchecked immigration. At some point you can’t help someone who won’t help themselves.

    • That is a likely outcome in the future, but for the time being the agendas of the progressives and the islamists are the same – destruction of the Western culture and society. They will address their differences later, but for the time being they have one common enemy – us.

  89. Orlando happened in one of the few safe spaces that gay people have in America.

    What makes you think that was a safe space? Obviously it wasn’t. Really, what makes anyone think anyplace is a safe space, except special snowflakes at some universities?

    • Feel free to suspect a place is “safe” when you see guards (multiple) carrying rifles, and insuring that everyone goes through the metal detector before entering, and I’m betting there was absolutely no sign of that at the site of the Orlando attack. Just declaring someplace a “safe space” only tells terrorists its an easy target.

  90. I encountered the DC chapter of GAG today. They were protesting at the Lincoln Memorial. After they began to disperse, I spoke to two of them, and informed them that while I disagree with their position, I respect the fact that they are passionate enough to demonstrate their belief.

    What followed was a “feeling out” of sorts, where a million different gun related topics tried to break into a 5 minute conversation that neither of us were wholly prepared for. I didn’t look to change their mind; I think they understood that my stance on guns would remain unchanged. However, they did thank me for polite, civil discourse, however stunted it may have been on my part. They seemed genuinely surprised when I reached out to shake their hand at the beginning and at the end. The two gentlemen even said that this was a change from normal dialogue, where they’re called all manner of slurs.

    We shouldn’t be looking to change their minds, when they are wholly invested in their convictions. But they, as an anti-gun group, were more open to conversation and a statement of statistical fact when approached with dignity and respect. I know they won’t be rushing to the store anytime soon to buy a new Glock brand Glock, but at the same time, I think they left realizing that maybe gun owners aren’t a bunch of murderous assassins. It’s a start. And I’ll take forward progress, however incremental it may be.

    • Sorry to disappoint you. Their convictions follow their funding, regardless of anything else. They people providing the funding are not concerned about your or their safety or well being. Those people are nothing more than useful idiots. As such, they will come out for the next demonstration as convinced as ever. If you want to kill the snake, you have to go for the head; everything else is irrelevant.

  91. Im still not sure just what he’s against. If its not abolishing the 2A (BS), and its not us poor saps that are misguidedly giving the evil gun-cos our money (sarc), then what is it? I guess everybody has a job and a salary.

    Our friend should look at the decade preceeding the Red Revolution of 1917, particularly the “talking points” of the time. Then he should look at the following 7 decades.

    If I’m a pawn for the evil gun-cos, hes a pawn for the communists that will turn the guns on him. But by then, he will have no guns or rights to defend himself. History repeats itself.

    You and I didn’t walk into that club. This is all part of the plan between the communist and the radical Islamists to divide and conquor this country.
    Note: why didn’t he include and pictures of the 110 people killed in truck attack on Nice France.

  92. Both Carter and we are angry about the Pulse massacre. The difference between us is that his anger is aimed at the firearm Omar Mateen used while ours is aimed at Mateen and others like him. My only problem with gruesome pictures of mutilated faces is that they are the faces of innocent victims when they should be Mateen’s face.

  93. Having spent a considerable amount of time in a gun free environment the people who think guns are the problem have NO clue. 14 years working in a medium security prison I have seen the aftermath of assaults resulting in great bodily injury, death and even suicides. Just as heinous as the graphic photo this guy posted. Even when improvised weapons aren’t used a young in shape predator can ruin or end your life relatively quickly. I’m too old for that crap and not willing to take an ass whipping. I do avoid situations that are sketchy and don’t escalate situations if I can. But, a firearm is completely reasonable defensive tool and refuse to make myself an easy mark.

  94. As I said before, pro and anti gun will never see eye to eye. Antis think we want death of innocents because we don’t wana ban guns. We think antis want death of innocents because they wana ban guns. Antis think guns can be used for bad only (crime or accident) (with carve out for cops). We think guns can be used for good (self defense). So there…

    • Thanks for the link. It explains a lot. The anger, the empty life, the activism to fill the void. It also makes it abundantly clear that, the Constitution notwithstanding, he is absolutely right that people like him should never be allowed close to weapons, including spoons and forks. He has very serious mental problems, those that no proctologist can possibly cure, no matter where he puts his finger. Yes, the society does need to be protected from sickos like this Goodwin (this is not flaming – he described himself perfectly well in that link).

      • Correct. He is feeling unfulfilled in his empty self absorbed, post middle age life after an event that made him realize his own mortality. Thus he latches on to this cause as one where HE has the power to make a difference, and in his own twisted mind he can save some lives, and thus bring the meaning and significance he so desperately craves.

        I’m sorry for his problems, I would wish them upon no one, but they do not mean he has any right to tread upon my God given liberties, including gun ownership.

    • Time out while I raise the bullshit flag. When you are discovered to have a cancer which requires surgery at all, never mind one also described as “aggressive”, circumstances may require that the surgery occur *tomorrow*, instead of today, but there is no way in Hell it is several weeks from now. This is a scam, jackass is trying to rip people off through gofundme, which I understand is not unusual. No wonder he is too busy to engage in reasonable conversation, it doesn’t pay enough!

      • Excellent point. This human excrement has shown on every occasion that it is a worthy Bernie and Hillary supporter – no morals of any kind whatsoever polluting that rectum.

  95. I’m fighting against what Carter Goodwin is presenting: fear, death, and destruction, and eliminating their (liberal) deathgrip on the conversation.

  96. I own many guns. I carry every time I am allowed by law and the rules of my chosen employment allow. I will absolutely give up my guns used for protection the very day after every threat to my personal safety and Liberty are also permanently disarmed. I promise!!!
    Now do you see your ignorance????…….probably not…..your just a poor ignorant sheep that sees an advantage to peacefull law abiding armed citizens becoming one of you….another sheep. When will you realize we are your greatest ally in the real world?.

  97. Tyranny takes many forms. Mr. Goodwin claims to have been the victim of the societal tyranny practiced widely against LGBTQ persons and to have helped overcome that form of tyranny. One would think the victim of a particular form of oppression would learn a few things about the nature of tyranny along the way. That does not seem to be the case here, rather Mr. Goodwin has chosen to impose his own brand of tyranny upon his countrymen, or to advocate for that oppression at least. The oppressed becomes the oppressor. An ironic and pathetic outcome.

    His presentation of flimsy emotion-based premises, dubious “facts” and outright fabricated photographic “evidence” in support of his argument notwithstanding, his underlying agenda is simply to impose his will on everyone else. He is a petty tyrant wannabe…nothing more, nothing less. Apparently, living through an intense fight for one’s self-identity and right to pursue one’s own happiness does not entail gaining any understanding of what the fight was really all about. Too bad so sad, Mr. Goodwin.

  98. This “article” was a total waste of space. What was the point? Dude said nothing of value, didn’t address anything. Ttag has been going downhill pretty much since sponsors started taking up more space. No more article summary is just a way for more clucks hence more impressions. Fsck it, I’m out. I’ll go spend my time on ammoland. At least the ads are up front and the content is still good. It’s been real, it’s been fun, just not real fun. Stay ready potg.

  99. No amount of graphic images will change the fact that guns are used more often to stop crime than to commit them and the most common outcome is everyone, even the criminal, walk away unharmed with no shots fired.

    Those pictures represent the outliers. They are no different than the gore videos we watched in drivers ed fit scare us into driving safely. They represent the worst of what can happen, not the most common outcomes.

    Secondly, no combination of words can challenge your right to exist. That is and always will be a nonsensical concept, and anyone using that phrase is trying desperately to abdicate their ability to be taken seriously.

    But I’m charitable, so I’ve chosen to take you seriously anyway and show you enough respect to reply cordially, whether your are interested in an actual honest exchange of thoughts on the subject, or are only attempting to create a purely emotional response while retaining a pretense of thoughtfulness, I doubt I will ever know.

    I hope you can adopt a rational view of the topic. The evidence is extremely clear and out there to be seen, and not one bit need be taken from the NRA.

    Civilian firearm ownership benefits society far, far more than it harms society. I ask you to consider that focusing on “Gun homicides” and tragic images can only be ways of avoiding the questions, and the answers, that actually illuminate the subject. It is impossible to weigh both aspects of gun ownership by only looking at the total number of tragedies.

    • On the contrary, this article is great in letting us see the workings of the grass roots anti gun activist. The void that defines his existence, the hatred, the lack of respect of others and of himself, the very serious mental and proctological disturbance that is consuming his existence. In short, it makes it abundantly clear that any conversation with him and like him is a total waste. These humanoids are like viruses – to be avoided at all costs.

  100. I really wish people would engage in more in educating themselves about gun violence. Sure, its horrible when mass shootings are involved, but I don’t think any words will change those who are dead set against gun ownership.

    How many change their minds once they are robbed, beaten, assaulted? If *I* live my life thinking that everyday I could be beaten/attacked/killed I would arm myself. Oh wait. I already HAVE. KNOWING your lifestyle draws hate and anger just from being what it is, one would think that this attack would shake you and make you reconsider YOUR choice to defend yourself as others have who don’t even live that way.

    But to paint the “gun violence” as you are is just wrong. You at least acknowledge that MOST (66%+) of all gun deaths are SUICIDE and if those people are really committed to ending their lives, they will do it, regardless of them owning guns.

    “Many minorities in blighted urban neighborhoods.”
    To be more exactly, the last time I found statistics on this about 78% of gun homicides are committed by minorities.
    Let that sink in. FBI & DOJ stats show that. Do they legally own those weapons? NO!

    Mass shootings kill LESS than hammers/clubs/bats or fist/feet every single year. No matter how you spin it (and lets be honest, there is some crazy spin out there). FBI stats again.

    ” and a few shot in self defense” – There’s more than a few killed by cops. Did you know that the people shot by cops are included in those annual numbers every single year?

    Now, instead of gun control – why aren’t we talking about CRIMINAL control? You commit a violent crime with a gun, lets put you away for 20 years mandatory. OH? Was it a stolen gun? Add 10 more years.

    Get the criminals off the streets and lets see those numbers drop.

    I know, I know… its not PC and people will cry foul but its time to get violent criminals off the streets instead of a revolving jail/prison door.

    • I like your concept of added time if a gun is stolen, hadn’t heard that one before. Maybe I’d consider reporting thefts if that were the case.

  101. You ‘gunlickers,’ as my ‘libturd’ compatriots like to demonize you, are the bottom of that chain.
    Geee…we sort of apply the “lickers” term to people like you but licking a rather different object.

  102. When I think of guns in America, I picture the scene in the Orlando nightclub.
    Yeah, but the car wrecks are so much better and you do not have to imagine anything.

    • Questioning (or queer). You often see two Q’s to cover both. But even that has gone by the wayside because it wasn’t inclusive enough. They went to LGBTQIA. Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual, Queer/Questioning, Intersex, Asexual. Now they use the acronym LGBTQQIAAP which stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, Asexual, Allies, and Pansexual.

      No kidding.

  103. Hated the government when it said they couldn’t get married; love the government to tell others what they can’t do…

  104. The photos were a cheap tactic. Talk about marketing fear. Has Mr. Goodwin ever seen the aftermath of a car/motorcycle accident, or an induxtrial accident? Meat-bags such as we are fragile things. There is nothing special, or especially significant about the damage a firearm can do.

    Perhaps Mr. Goodwin should forcus on the real merchants of fear, the news media. They do all the marketing the gun-industry needs. Inspite of violence dropping to new lows every year, they keep screeching the same messages, “we are all going to die!!!, Everyone is racist/homophobic!!!, gun owners are crazy rednecks that will kill you!!!. You bought into their message – save your buyers remorse for someone else. I’m not interested.

  105. While I’ve never been affiliated with the Pink Pistols for a few reasons, obviously I’d prefer to throw my lot in with them than with GAG or Newton or what-have-you. Curiously absent from Mr. Goodwin’s rebuttal is any mention of PP at all. I really, truly do not understand how he can say he’s “fight[ing] them tooth and nail” and “liv[ing] day-to-day with domestic terrorism … liv[ing] with the terror of being bullied, beaten, and killed” in the same breath as he advocates for *more* gun control.

    Now, I disagree politically with TTAG regs on a lot of things. I’ve seen some stuff in the TTAG comment sections that makes me feel ashamed to be a 2A supporter if these are the kinds of people I’m agreeing with about anything. But I keep coming back, because at the end of the day, we agree on the important issue of 2A rights, even if we might disagree about how to go about retaining those rights. I consistently find myself surprised by how virulently anti-gun the quiltbag community [seriously, keep adding letters to LGBTQIA+ and soon you’ll have the whole alphabet in it, just use a word for christ’s sake] is, considering how much of a target we are for the violence of closed-minded bigots.

    It consistently seems like the groups that should be the loudest advocates for 2A rights–women, minorities, the quiltbag community–are instead the ones screaming that we should take guns away. I really don’t understand that. I understand that you’ve maybe been victimized by someone who had a gun, or you had a friend who got murdered by some mugger with a gun. Think about that, though. What does that mean? It shows how effective firearms are. That a Bad Thing happened isn’t the fault of the gun, it’s the fault of the operator. You’ve seen how effective the tool can be for evil, so why not take it upon yourself to use it for good?

    Why would you want to make it easier for people to hurt you?

    • “Why would you want to make it easier for people to hurt you?”

      Gosh, if we could only figure-out the answer to that very good question, then we might be able to actually persuade many of the fence-sitters to our point of view. Good comment overall- BTW.

    • “Why would you want to make it easier for people to hurt you?” — Because it wants to be a victim; victim-hood gives purpose to its existence.

  106. So to summarize,
    “I would rebut you point by point, BUUUUUUUUUUT, I don’t have the emotional maturity, patience, facts to support my position, or the desire to honestly evaluate my own beliefs.

    I have a picture of someone who was shot in the face, and its horrible to look at, so I must be right.

    Because hey, who needs to be in touch with reality when you’ve got FEELINGZ!!
    (paraphrase from James)

  107. I am tired of the emotional-based appeals for blatantly Unconstitutional actions because of the actions of criminals. There is no point to trying to have a discussion when those folks are only using the issue as a smokescreen to cover their complete disdain for enforcing existing law uniformly across all citizens of every type.

    Democrats, liberals, and the so-called “progressives” are aggressively pushing their disarmament campaign for reasons that are, at best, ambiguous, and at worst dishonest and nefarious. Disarmament is unsupported statistically. It is unsupported philosophically. It should be actively shunned because of disastrous results throughout history for disarmed populations. Yet they ignore all of these factors and relentlessly push their agenda against gun owners who have committed no harm and done no wrong. How can you have a discussion with such people?

    Here are three starting points which might actually start to make progress. First there can be no discussion until the core concept of a “right” is once again understood to be something that a citizen can do without permission from anyone. The aggressors freely use their “right” to free speech to unleash hateful, vitriolic and false words against law-abiding gun owners every single day. Nevertheless, rights are rights. They cannot be taken away. Respect ours while we respect yours and we may finally begin to have a discussion.

    Second, the aggressors must agree to comprehensive “criminal control” consisting of aggressively policing, prosecuting and punishing people who actually commit crimes. Once apprehended and prosecuted within the law, criminals must be incarcerated until such time as they are truly rehabilitated and safe to release back into society.

    Finally, the people with the agenda must agree to secure this great nation against aggressors who may seek to infiltrate by stealth or under false pretenses as “refugees” or otherwise completely undocumented individuals. Congress passed carefully considered laws allowing a million people a year to enter the United States under careful controls and screens for criminal background, illnesses, vaccinations, and agreements to honor and respect the U.S. Until such time as the laws passed by Congress are actually enforced uniformly and against all who would violate them, there can be no discussion. You’re simply trying to manipulate the results you want for your reasons without regard to the rights of other citizens, which is not acceptable.

    Stop pretending that you’re the only one with feelings or rights and start listening to other peoples’ feelings and respect their rights. Otherwise… get bent. We got nothing to discuss.

  108. This guy and his gay arguments are what made San Francisco a disarmed city. And these same arguments are working very well to disarm the state of California.

    The homosexual leadership is anti-civilrights. It always has been. They enjoy using welfare to destroy the traditional family. They don’t support the first or the second amendment. They do support using the powers of the state to crush their enemies.

    They need a disarmed population to complete their goals.

  109. I don’t normally comment, but this really bothered me. I’m not sure that the 250th comment really matters, but what the hey.

    This shock type of communication is just so poor.

    Posting pictures of gunshot victims and saying that the gruesome image is a reason to outlaw an inanimate object seems less than juvenile.

    At one time for high school driving classes they would use images of horrific road accidents to educate children. The images were not used to try and outlaw automobiles, but to ask people to be careful in their usage.

    Many suicides occur because of love stories gone wrong. I have seen firsthand what a 20 story drop does to the human body. Should we show pictures of suicide victims in an effort to have love outlawed? Tall buildings? Gravity?

    I think using graphic images to convey the danger of misuse is perfectly reasonable, but to try to outlaw an inanimate object is ridiculous.

    I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but I actually feel sorry for anyone that would use this type of argument in this way. I guess I feel more sad for the person who would be swayed by this type of argument.

  110. No flaming……………..REALLY!
    WE get flamed ALL the TIME!!
    For owning a fire arm.
    For not being gay
    For having a different opinion or outlook on life.
    For just about anything……………..
    Any one of “us” has more CLASS than all of “them” put together.

  111. “Orlando happened in a nightclub, one of the few safe spaces that gay people have in America.”

    When you start right away from stupid premises, you set yourself up for serious disappointment.

  112. So what’s that bigot going to do when someone plows a truck through a pride parade like what happened in France? Form Gays Against Trucks?

    Anyway, right at the beginning of his text is the key thing, and I’m paraphrasing, “I have my facts, you have yours blah blah blah I’m not going to change my mind.”.

    Funny how someone who should be more open-minded is such a close minded bigot.

    He’s basically saying that his feelings are a certain way and he’s not going to bother trying to determine if his feelings align with reality because he wants to use his time to push his beliefs on others.

    Intelligent people crave knowledge. That’s how I ended up on this website. I avoided it because it had the word “truth” in the title and that’s always a warning when it comes to internet sites. You know, ludicrous conspiracy websites tend to talk about “truth”. But then finally I came here and my views changed because of reality.

    His post only shows that he’s incredibly uneducated and willfully ignorant or incredibly biased (possibly all of the above).

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