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As I said before, gun control advocate MikeB302000 [not shown] seems to be jumping into the deep end of the pool labeled “guilt by association.” Blogging a story about a child-on-child firearm-related tragedy, Mike points the finger at you. “These incidents are so rare the pro-gun crowd says we should stop worrying about them and above all we should stop blaming them. But that’s where we differ. I do blame them. I blame all who advocate and campaign and vote for lax gun laws and who oppose simple improvements in the gun control system that would have an immediate beneficial effect on the gun violence.” Memo to Mike: define “simple,” quantify “beneficial effects” and offer some data on the potential immediacy of said unnamed effects. Please.

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  1. I keep my guns locked up. I do so voluntarily because even though my sons are more interested in our pets than they are my guns, the consequences of them playing with gun are quite severe, so therefore, the guns stay in the GunVault or on my hip. I don’t want my family to become a statistic for either side of this argument.

    Personally, I think we should ban backyard pools. Why would anyone want a pool of their own when the government provides one for you? Besides, everyone knows pools are just there to kill small children.

    You crazy aquanuts and your “right to breaststroke”! Clearly, we need more “common-sense” pool laws before anymore “common-sense” gun laws.

  2. I blame mikey. There’s no doubt in my mind that we have “lax gun laws” because of mikey’s inability to make a cogent case for anything else.

  3. Again in regards to this blogger we see a case of someone who has not yet been the victim of rampant crime, blaming inanimate objects for criminal behavior by blanketing the entire subject. I personally know a few people that had hard line stance anti gun for everyone until they became statistics. Now the 3 of them not only support gun ownership, but also rights to legal concealed carry, and they do, daily , without fail.

    Should the owner of the firearm been more careful? YES
    If it was truly found, most likely a stolen firearm.

    Was this a case of gun violence? NO
    Violence generally refers to intent.

    Was it a horrible accident that could have been avoided if education was given early in life say in the Swiss mentality? YES
    I was brought up farm, you knew where the guns were, how and when to use them, but you did not touch them unless it was the correct time, place and need.

    Should we give more freedom to the case of irresponsible nitwits? NO

    Now everyone has their own opinion and I will be the last one to say who is correct or wrong, but I will stand firmly against the “need” for more laws that govern intrusively every aspect of your life. Laws that are written to protect the lowest common denominator of society from their own selves, all the while intentionally or not making criminals out of good and honorable persons.

    My 2 cents.

  4. Robert asked me to “define “simple,” quantify “beneficial effects” and offer some data on the potential immediacy of said unnamed effects.”

    By “simple improvements in the gun control system,” you know already what I mean, I’ve said it enough.

    1. background checks on all sales
    2. licensing of all gun owners which would include some mental health screening.
    3. registration of all guns to a particular licensed owner. The renewal of the registration is key, after three months and yearly thereafter.
    4. safe storage requirements in the home.

    About the other two, the ““beneficial effects” and offer some data on the potential immediacy of said unnamed effects, I’m afraid I can’t. Since unlike you guys I don’t read minds and see into the future, I’m forced to use my best judgment on these ideas.

    My common sense tell me we’d see violent gun crime plummet. It would be so dramatic that you’re right to resist it at all costs because a cry would rise up from the whole country, “if those laws worked, imagine what stricter ones would do.” You guys would dig your heels in and that’s where the stalemate would occur.

    I guess in spite of all your bluster and talk of basic human rights, you fear you wouldn’t be able to hold that fort at that point, so you’ve drawn the line here and now. That’s why you’re in the wrong. You’ve taken your stand too early and the result is unnecessary death and destruction.

    That’s why I blame you.

    • Honestly, mikey? You blame us, not the guy who dumped the gun where a kid could find it (if that’s actually what happened)? If you don’t mind me saying so, and even if you do, I think you’d fail the mental health screening part of your own program.

      • I believe you are right that the nincompoops who left their gun in a place out in the open where their children could play with it are to blame. You shouldn’t blame all 2nd amendment advocates for someone’s stupidity in regards to their guns. Also, it was the nincompoops fault for not supervising or having anyone supervise kids that young. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with Mikey’s desire for stricter gun laws. The only people who would complain, I think, would be those 2nd Amendment advocates who would be restricted from using their guns because they did not fit the perameters of the regulations listed by Mikey. I see no evidence of psychiatric illness on Mikey’s part. I belong to Mensa and our magazine has a strict rule against ad hominem attacks in our letters-to-the-editor submissions. Ad hominem attacks are usually used by people who have no concrete evidence to back up why they are against another individual as a whole. I, for one, am not swayed by ad hominem attacks and I really do wish that people would not base their judgments of another’s worth based on some person’s ad hominem attacks. I feel that since this year’s an election year (2012 as of this writing) we have had enough of this.

    • I have no problem with background checks on sales, every one I have ever purchased or inherited has had one run on me before I took possession.
      Safe storage, especially around kids is important as is more education.

      Pass all the laws you like, until punishment truly affects those who have broken the laws it does not change people. period. end game.

      Ask any LA gang banger if they give a rats toot in regards to criminal or civil laws.
      before they mug you they will tell you no. Stricter laws will not ever control the criminal element.

      In days of religious controls on people the threat of what happens after death was instilled in the populace. This no longer being the case, people are uninhibited to act on their darker desires.
      No law will ever end the desire some people have to do harm. No law will ever be a concern of a criminal who does not fear punishment. No law will ever bring back a friend of mine who was raped, repeatedly, by 2 or more men, and bound and left for dead for days of suffering before she did finally die. Had she been armed with more than pepper spray, at least she would have had a chance against the odds.

      Only if the legal system itself is overhauled to actually enforce the laws and punishments that already exist will any progress be made.

      In a perfect society the only guns needed would be for hunting food and sport as trap or skeet shooting. This is far from a perfect society.

    • 1. background checks on all sales

      We currently have that in many states, including North Carolina. I agree with background checks. They should be mandatory and nationwide.

      2. licensing of all gun owners which would include some mental health screening.

      I have a license for my gun: it’s called the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. You should read it sometime.

      As for mental health screening: who would do it? What would they look for? How often should the check be done, since each is a snapshot in time? Who screens the screeners? In short: no. The background check should be good enough.

      3. registration of all guns to a particular licensed owner. The renewal of the registration is key, after three months and yearly thereafter.

      My gun was registered to me when I bought it. Margaret’s was registered to her when she bought them. That’s all that should be necessary. Renew registration in three months, and yearly thereafter?? Who pays for this? How bogged down a system are you attempting to make here? This is a frivilous, ridiculous idea.

      4. safe storage requirements in the home.

      Every responsible gun owner does store their guns safely. Each person has to decide for themselves what “safe storage” means, whether protecting the weapons from potential intruders or from children. But a one-size-fits-all approach is, quite frankly, stupid.

      • Bravo! Now you see the proverbial brick wall(s) we keep having before us here. Let the government solve all our problems by regulating us into numbers and devoid us of our humanity. We would continue on the road until we no longer had any of the differences and personality that makes humans interesting. We would all have to be models of their idea of the perfect citizen-and live to serve the state.

        • I’m having this argument with liberal friends in an online forum. A man was protesting the New York helmet law, and he and 550 of his buddies went helmetless in a mass ride. Don’t know what happened, but he high-sided out (over the handlebars) and landed on his head – killing him. I said it was an ironic tragedy, but it was his right to choose to wear a helmet or not. Now I’m being treated as the Bad Guy for standing up for rights. The person I argued with (I’ve said all I had to say, and won’t discuss it further because it’ll just digress) is a UU minister who stands for women’s rights, pro-choice, pro-marriage equality, and yet doesn’t see the disconnect regarding helmet laws. I’m speechless.

        • I agree. Except for bad weather, I’ve almost always gone w/o. I totally feel it is your right to choose-I’ve been riding all of my life. I only now wear one to appease my Mom and my angel, Sheri-because of my fracture in my eye socket. My baby is a burgundy red Honda VTX 1800 Retro, made in SC in 2002.

        • What does gays marrying and women aborting children have to do with helmet laws?

          The word pro choice should be banned seriously, getting really annoying to see you self righteous people say its about choice, but in the end your justification is a unborn baby is subhuman.

        • My ride is an ’82 Yamaha XJ550 Maxim. Yeah, small by today’s standards, but still a heck of a fun ride!

        • Hey,it’s what gets you around and you enjoy. Besides, I’m 6′ and 290, like a linebacker, and I need the extra engine and size. I should have gone with the 1300, the 1800 is very top heavy and took a lot of getting used to, but now I love it. The torque is extreme though, it’s the kind of bike that will kill you if you don’t respect it. I had it a month in 2002 when a girl came off the highway and rear ended me at about 20mph. The bike’s so solid I stayed on. I was out of gear at a light, my right hand on the brake. My right shoulder got dislocated. I was so mad that my new bike was hit that I didn’t notice for about an hour!

      • Rebecca, I know you’re new around here. I remember you’re first comment last week or so.

        I’m gonna take a shot here. The other guys who read and write here are definitely too far gone, but maybe there’s hope for you and your partner. GET RID OF THE GUNS NOW, before it’s too late, before they get into your blood and under your skin, before you get addicted to that false sense of safety and security.

        Please read some of the reports the guys around here like to ridicule and use your common sense to see if they make sense to you.

        Guns do more harm than good. That’s the fact.

        When you get to know me, you’ll realize that part of my charm is that you sometimes can’t tell if I’m serious or joking. Ralph can tell ya.

        One final thing, if you’re gonna try to defend gun right with these sharks, little fish that you are, you have to be precise. Your first point about background checks failed to take into account private sales. That’s the whole point about the “gunshow loophole” and the “universal background checks” arguments. Private sales cannot be exempted otherwise what the hell good are the background checks? What we’re doing is background checks on only SOME gun sales.

        • You really are irrationally terrified of guns, aren’t you? Have you sought help?

        • Guns do more harm than good. That’s the fact.

          A fact? Really?

          Wheres the proof, did a google search and found no proof for this so called fact. Actually I found lots of proof the opposite is a fact.

          If you expect anyone to take you seriously, stop pulling facts from your anus. They always stink!

        • Sorry, Joe – I’m in Charlotte, North Carolina. But if you’re ever in the vicinity…!

        • GET RID OF THE GUNS NOW, before it’s too late, before they get into your blood and under your skin, before you get addicted to that false sense of safety and security.

          Mike, #1: Bite me. You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. #2: Too late. We lurve our guns. We’re doing everything we can to learn proper gun safety (though I learned it as a child, it’s always wise to re-learn and train, train, train on safety. Train on safety until you won’t forget, then train more until it becomes muscle memory. Then keep training.

        • I’m falling in love with Rebecca cuz she’s one smart woman, and she let mikey know how she really feels. If you live near american firearms school in MA, I’d like to go shooting with you some time.

        • Well, as Rebecca’s partner, let me say this. If you want us to get rid of our guns, feel free to come and try to take them. I will be fair and warn you though; on top of the two 9mm handguns, we also have a Mosin Nagant and two 16ga shotguns, so you may have a hard time getting anywhere near the door. And if those somehow failed us and you managed to get in, I’m sure one the of several swords or other assorted knives we have could probably work to stop you. Oh, and for the long range indoor combat, I always have the spear. So yeah, let me know if you need the address.

    • My common sense tell me we’d see violent gun crime plummet.

      Your common sense is broken. The conditions you dream of apply to Mexico; do you claim they have a much lower rate of “gun crime” than the US?

    • By “simple improvements in the gun control system,” … My common sense tell me we’d see violent gun crime plummet.

      The recently posted link in another thread to Daniel Greenfield’s blog article “Leave Me Alones vs Make It Betters” seems topical here too. A quote:

      To “Leave Me Alones”, other people are either good or bad. But to the “Make It Betters”, everyone is in a gray area and in need to enlightenment.

      Enlightened i.e. apparently by more regulation by ‘Nanny’. An MIB retreats to their ivory tower where their rules make everything perfect; therefor when perfection fails to materialize in the real world… more rules are needed! Trouble is, as many have commented in this thread, criminals choose not to play by the rules in the first place.

      • MikeB translated: Rebecca, I know you’re new around here-and don’t know about me yet-so while I think I can still charm you, here’s the deal-get out! Run while you can! I have it on good authority that these people are actually a cult of satan worshippers, and what’s worse, they don’t listen to me! I am positive that RF is the up and coming anti-Christ, and I’ve heard rumors that Cujo might even be a cannibal! For God’s sake, leave hear at once and join my blog! If I get one more follower I get a free t shirt for my membership surpassing 12 devotees! I need that t shirt to soothe my ego-it needs more stroking than Pee Wee Herman did in the movie theater!

        • Rebecca, did you know that if you download TTAG on disc and play it backwards on a cd player, one can clearly hear: “Hail Satan…RF’s the Devil…Hail Satan….Guns are his tools…”

        • Funny; that sounds exactly like my “friends” in the liberal forum….! ===8^O

        • Awesome translation Cujo, I couldn’t have said it any better. Rebecca has already figured mikey out and she hardly knows him. She’s even smarter than I first thought.

        • Thanks-and you’re right about her. I better go for a bit-I’m the only one I know who gets hyper from insomnia, and I’m going on 30 hours now.

  5. We have almost every aspect of your “prohibition program”, Mike. Except license 3-month/yearly renewal. If you think, that our crime rates are below zero, well, I don’t want to disappoint you, but you wrong.
    I really don’t understand how it became very popular way to “fight crimes” by oppressive methods over law-abiding population.
    As I’ve told before, we are not allowed to own handguns. Do you really think that all criminals abandon their handguns in favor of “assolt rifels” (misprints intended)? We have a fokking Himalaya Range of bureaucratic barriers which we must pass to receive license or renew it. I haven’t heard at least ONE story, when criminal being caught that way or “prevented from possession of undesirable items”. They not so dumb attempting obtain guns legal way.
    So enough already. Puh-leeze.

    • I feel your pain Brother! After mikeb tried to work an angle at discrediting my military service, now magoo is trying to act like butter won’t melt in his mouth, and trying to belittle me. Such personal attacks from such macho men. “Internet Muscles” indeed! Is any one surprised at my occasional sarcasm or shock humor?

      • I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings. Can I send you some scented candles or a bottle of your favorite bubblebath?

        • No, we should have a beer together. Since you “shoot better than everyone here” and “could hit you in the nose three times before you could react”, I feel certain I would cower in your Rambo-like masculinity.

        • My favorite bubble bath is mud and my favorite scented candle is cordite. Will you be delivering this yourself?

        • You way miss the point, which is that ANYONE can hit a guy in the face multiple times before he can draw his gun. He has one or more hands down reaching for his holster while the BG is beating on his face. F on F and SD training just sort of dance around this obvious fact.

          You guys don’t really listen because you are too busy arguing. It’s no skin off my nose. It’s not my problem either way.

        • Then why are they still teaching Force-on-Force and reactive hand to hand to LEOs and Mil if it just “dances” around the concept?

          Not to mention the fact that its okay to defend yourself with fists before creating distance/space to draw.

          No one said that your firearm has to be the very first thing you reach for in a fight.

        • Yes, this is possible. What now – everyone abandon guns in favor of HtH? Allright, how bout weight restrictions? No, I’m not about “old fat guys”. 90 pounds lady agains couple of 200 pounds attackers? Even against one? If weight is not that important, why in sports then almost every marital ( :)) arts discipline has different weights classes?

        • Rudy, you always make me laugh! You must be a great guy to drink with, I swear! We could probably stay up, trading “war stories” until the sun came up.

        • I do what I can: making others to laugh, even if it involves their laughing at me. 🙂 Although, knowing my “brutish engrish” I wonder, what exactly makes you laughing. 😉

        • Rudy: you got me with the -what now-everyone is abandoning guns to go to hand to hand, alright-it just was cool how smooth you were. And I also have been up since yesterday morning with my eye and head hurting, so I am a little punch drunk.

        • Glad you like it. There is a theory, proposing running as best martial art out there. And marital too, by the way. 🙂
          Well, I’m not consuming alcohol; don’t remember your term for that – tee-too-taa-budda-beep-budda-boop… Teetotaller? Anyway, since I have hangover symptoms 🙂 and I haven’t drunk before – what for waste money and time, if you’ll felt same in the end? Hangover, free of charge! 😀

        • Rest assured, Rudy, I would never laugh at you-and your English is very good.

        • Too true,Rudy. I actually don’t drink anymore and couldn’t if I wanted. I have to take three tabs of morphine a day. I mainly stick to Jeet Kune Do and kick boxing. I go slow with low impact-precision over speed, too many busted joints over the years to needlessly stress. I even practice drawing and dry firing at Tai Chi speed too. It puts the correct form into the mind and muscles.

        • No offence meant, Cujo. I had no intentions to imply that you or somebody else here will laugh at my engrish. It just form of excuse, that I cannot use your language on same level as you.
          Sorry for your condition, friend.
          Poor comparison, but my medics ban my beloved hockey to me. I’m not pro, just amateur, but still. Not that hockey-do is good HtH school and brawling goalie is rare sight, but still.

        • Thanks-it’s all good. I’m improving all the time. Six months ago my blood pressure would go up as high as 190/160-stroke level, because of the pain. 2 days ago my blood pressure dropped to 77/35, because of the blood pressure medicine. That means I have controlled the pain to a level that I will be able to quit the blood pressure medicine. the good thing is that the morphine is just enough-well not quite enough-to control the pain, and I am normal, not high. Read about Michael D. Echanis. He was nearly paralyzed and used his meditation and martial arts to heal himself, and eventually train SEAL’s in HwRang Do.

        • Many thanks, Cujo. I’ll transfer this info to couple of guys I know, including that boxer I told of (though, I’m afraid, I had to translate it to them), it may help them. Though one of them (not boxer) completely refusing to consume medicine. “It’s poison” and all that.

      • Cujo, please remind me of the time I tried to discredit your military service. Were you in the Coast Guard or something? As an ex-Marine, I might have made fun of that, but I really don’t remember.

  6. Hillcrest is an area of Maryland’s PG County rife with drugs and gangs. Police patrol that area only in pairs. If the boy really “found the gun outside” I wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear that the gun was used in a crime and dumped.

    • I would have liked a clip of Omega Man when he was at the window, shooting at gun grabbing zombies with his early model night vision scope. Maybe the zombies weren’t really gun grabbers, but that’s how I like to think of them.

      • I wish that the Will Smith movie, “I Am Legend”, had captured a bit more of that essence that The Omega Man had. I guess they needed Charlton Heston back for that.

  7. Wait no joke about a cop and his partner have a picnic at the park and one of them forgot their gun?

    You make me sad Robert.

  8. This may sound mean and insensitive but I’d like to know what kind of gun this kid used, but any gun that can’t take out a four year old seems to be pretty useless. I’d also like to blame mikey for not passing some sort of law that would ban little kids from shooting each other. We should have all kids tested when they turn three to make such they are crazy enough to shoot people when they grow up, this way we could stop all violent crimes and then the world will be a safer place.

  9. Maryland already requires background checks on all handgun and regulated long gun(assault rifle) transfers. You must complete a safety course(video) before buying a handgun. MSP maintains a spent shell casing from all new handgun purchases. Every new handgun must be supplied with an approved internal lock. There are also safe storage laws to protect minors and an unofficial handgun registration. Somehow this still happened.

  10. I think that Magoo makes a very good point. When I was growing up I knew a lot of people who carried knives, batons, etc for self defence. One day one of the older local guys told me and some friends it was pointless because most of the neighborhood guys would hit us three times before we could even think about pulling a weapon, we were better off just learning to fight better. Being know it all youngsters we didn’t believe him until we saw it. A lot of it has to do with awareness and keeping distance. Just because you packing doesn’t make you safe.

  11. I wasn’t implying that F on F training was worthless or that a gun should be your first or only option. I have just personally seen a lot people think a weapon, especially a gun is the end all be all to self defence. they have a place it is just a very limited, very defined place. I think most here would agree.

    • If you are blindsided, you have no chance even if you’re King Freakin’ Kong. A good friend of mine back in the day was a black belt in several styles of Asian fighting. None of that helped him when he lost situational awareness on the street in front of his home in NYC and got the shit beaten out of him and his wallet stolen.

      I’m a senior citizen, so I find the notion of fighting with a BG ludicrous. I keep my head on a swivel and the odds of me being a victim are remote. But just in case, I carry everywhere I can, with one in the pipe. Also, since I’m a senior citizen, I won’t be prosecuted if I am forced to deploy my gun. Yeah, I was a lawyer before I retired. Old timers and women get legal breaks that young men won’t. So I encourage all you “yoots” to learn how to fight. I did when I wore a younger man’s clothes.

      Here’s the most stupid thing. I was and still am a devil with edged weapons, but I cannot carry a knife in Massivetwoshits because they are illegal. So even though I’d like to carry something that’s less lethal than my .40, I can’t. It would be a felony. Does that make any sense?

      • None. I teach knife fighting, baton and pepper spray use on the side. I cringe everytime I make an order or look at a new less than lethal or nonlethal product and see all the places you can’t have a very useful item. If the name says what it can’t or most likely won’t do-the mind boggles.

        • Don’t worry Rob. No one is pinging you. You just got caught in the crossfire. I just apologized to Gage, he thought I was raging at him. I apologize to you too. I will try and mellow and take some of the pills the VA gives me! Also, Squid Billies is on.

  12. The mentality of regulating society to keep everyone safe is a dangerous one. It reminds me of the movie iRobot (neat plot, boring overall) where engineers design robots to keep people safe and to serve humanity. Then, the robots came to the conclusion that to make sure everybody is safe, they need to round everyone up and place them in controlled societies. Now, I don’t see everything getting that crappy for us because gun grabbers are mere humans. But if that mentality spreads, all we’ll be left with are volumes of ineffective regulations; our lives would become infused with red tape. All in the hopes of trying to keep people safe from people. Merely exercising your rights would be so boring and fruitless, that you might as well become a boring liberal.

    • We already do pass law after law to protect the lowest common denominator.
      We are already bound in red tape. We are bound and covered by ineffective and ridiculous laws and regulations. Because of this I fight , vote, rally and practice my rights and RESPONSIBILITIES as an American.

      But of course in the true aspect of the 1st amendment I do not agree with mike but I will defend to the death his right to say it.

      However the over the top control people would stab me in the eye for my second amendment rights that keep their first amendment rights in check.

      Funny that…..

      • Yes,Sir. I just don’t get how someone could in good conscience sign a law that takes rights away, or impinges them.

        • Cujo, its like so many variants on religion, all claiming the same deity. Pick and choose the edicts you like, ignore the rest. It would seem some of our fellow Americans are following this with the Bill of Rights.

          “Every individual needs revolution, inner division, overthrow of the existing order, and renewal, but not by forcing them upon his neighbors under the hypocritical cloak of Christian love or the sense of social responsibility or any of the other beautiful euphemisms for unconscious urges to personal power” (Jung, 1966:5).

  13. No worries Cujo or anyone else I was just clarifying why I was saying. Its a lot harder than that to hurt my feelings. Although I don’t like mandatory helmet laws I REALLY encourage helmet usage. I worked around bikes for a long time and have been riding even longer. Helmets and proper Tidinf gear work. I know from experience.

    • Cool. Yeah, I had to agree with the ladies that I’d wear a helmet for now on. Ironic that the fracture is from a truck accident. I was lucky, if the break had been jagged, I may have lost my shooting eye. And my depth perception. I am considering a trike sometime in the future, my knees and ankles took a beating in the military. Both my knee caps have been cracked and I’ve had a broken foot and a broken ankle. Besides, a trunk on a Gold Wing Trike can even carry a pistol gripped Mossberg, I imagine…

  14. Just a quick reminded: no flaming the website, its authors or fellow commentators. No personal insults or exchanges. I’ve gone back and deleted offensive comments. If there are comments remaining that you find objectionable, or if you’d like to object to my objections, ping me at [email protected].

    Also, do NOT post details which could identify your location, or personal habits which could lead to a 10-40. I also delete these as and when for your safety. I will never share your IP address with anyone ever, but you must do your part to protect your identity.

  15. If the common sense conclusion drawn from one tragic firearm accident is ” 1. background checks…safe storage in the home”, what conclusions ought to be drawn from Waco?

      • Aha. New rules:
        1. Do not think.
        2. If thinking – do not speak.
        3. If thinking and speaking – do not write.
        4. If thinking, speaking and writing – do not sign.
        5. If thinking, speaking, writing and signing – do not be surprised.

        And always wear your tin hat, pointy end up!

  16. The incident in the original story happened in MD, a state that requires BG checks on all handgun sales including private sales.

    • Go figure. No amount of laws can or will ever prevent mishaps nor crime. Murder has always been illegal. It didn’t stop hitler. it didn’t stop ted bundy.

    • Carefull, you will end up on Mike’s hit list for using actual facts that dispute his facts because he says they are facts.

      • No, you should aspire to be on Mike’s “dirty fighter” list when you call him out on his mis-steps or flawed logic.

        Hell we should make the “Dirty Fightin’ Insurrectionist” awards on TTAG.


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