Finally! 4 Simple Gun Control Laws That ‘Could’ Reduce ‘Gun Violence’ by 28%!

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It starts with a fairly simple premise: A majority of people, no matter which side of the political aisle they occupy, believe that someone with a history of violence should not be able to have a gun. This common ground between gun owners and non-gun owners is the basis for a policy platform proposed in a report out today from Tufts University School of Medicine experts, who led research into the topic, and 97percent, a bipartisan organization of gun owners and non-gun owners committed to reducing gun deaths, which funded the research. …

“We now have a research-backed package of gun safety policies, supported by non-gun owners and gun owners, that works holistically to meaningfully reduce gun deaths—while respecting the rights of law-abiding gun owners,” adds Adam Miller, co-founder of 97Percent. “The myth of an intractable divide on this issue is just that: a myth. We not only found common ground; we’ve identified solutions rooted in it that leverage gun owners’ perspective and expertise, have been proven effective, and can serve as a roadmap for gun safety moving forward.” 

There are four policies the researchers estimate could reduce overall gun-related homicides by up to 28% and gun-related suicides by 6%:

Violent misdemeanor laws. The first policy stems from the idea that people with a history of violence should not have access to a gun. Research shows that people most likely to commit firearm violence are people who have a history of violence. The problem, Siegel points out, is that under current federal law, unless someone commits a felony offense, they are not prohibited from having a gun in some states. …

Universal background checks. Logically, Siegel continues, there needs to be a way to know whether someone has a history of violence, and the only way to do that is to run a background check. In some states, when a person buys a gun, the retailer must run a point-of-purchase background check. …

Gun permit laws. A state gun permitting system has multiple benefits for gun owners, Siegel says. “Say you live in a rural area, your brother comes to visit for the weekend, and you decide to go hunting. Your brother has a gun permit but did not bring his gun, so you loan him one of yours. In some states, doing that is a felony, and you could go to jail. Under this system, you would simply verify his valid permit and you’re all set.” …

Red flag laws. The last piece of the policy addresses people who are identified as an imminent threat, such as someone who may be threatening suicide. Perhaps they legally got a gun permit, but something happens in their life to precipitate them becoming a threat to themselves or someone else. Red flag laws allow family members or law enforcement to temporarily confiscate their gun until they are no longer a threat.

“We put a lot of due process clauses into the policy to protect the rights of gun owners and make sure this system isn’t abused,” he says. “The gun owner would have the right to a hearing, and when the order is rescinded, they would get their guns back quickly.”

— Angela Nelson in This Gun Policy Platform Could Help Reduce Gun Violence by 28%, Researchers Say

 

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137 COMMENTS

      • If you give Gun Control zealots an inch they will take a mile. Since History Confirms mass human suffering and death are inherent with Gun Control trying to negotiate with Gun Control makes as much sense as negotiating with nazis on the behalf of Jews or negotiating with the bigot m.colson and his pals on the behalf of Black Americans.

      • You mean like all the “I’d like to solve the puzzle, Alex” or “13%” comments on other sites?

        As a Christian, I firmly believe we are all created in God’s image, and therefore have inherent value for that very reason. It is – as aptly spoken by the late Dr. King – not a matter of color, but of character, and certain cultures promote degeneracy over honor. Such cultures are mired in the mindset that hard work is a betrayal to their communities, even as they rely on the fruits of someone else’s labor. The Left perpetuates this, and the result is an endless cycle of dependency. This is an interesting quote:

        “It has been 300 years since they were brought to this country, 160 years since they were freed, over 50 years since they were granted complete equal rights, and on top of that, they have had several decades of ‘racial privilege’ thrown at them in the forms of jobs, money, and ‘entitlements’. And still, they continue thousands of times, every day, to fulfill the negative stereotypes that are held against them. Nothing ever helps these people; they are perpetual victims forever of their own causing. The only culture on the planet that seems incapable of pulling themselves up.”

        – John Stuart Mill, July 2022

        • Unfortunately the who is responsible factor flies over the heads of those who factor in race without factoring in the democRat Party owning lock, stock and barrel the legacy of slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, the kkk, lynching, Eugenics, Gun Control and other race based atrocities. So obviously it is the democRat Party who needs to be singled out for who owes Reparations.

          As long as gullible and I mean gullible Black Americans vote democRat they are on the plantation not picking cotton but harvesting votes for the Party of their slave masters.

          Bottom line…A Black American belonging to the democRat Party makes as much sense as a Jew belonging to the nazi party.

        • Haz, Thomas Sowell has done quite a lot of research into that phenomena and has really interesting theories that i think bear deeper investigation.

      • Ah. My first moderated comment of the day…and I used generic wording as much as possible to fly under the WordPre$$ radar. I’ll flip a coin to see if TPTB will eventually post it, or ghost it.

        • The culprit was “someone” followed by “else.”

          You can use them individually, but putting them together triggers moderation. I’ve run into this problem before.

        • “The culprit was “someone” followed by “else.””

          And, the Dude is correct.

          I’d love to hear the rational reason why those two words together trigger moderation…

    • As if the organized crime figures murdering each other are just a single skin tone…

      Try building a cottdam future for Americans that doesn’t rely on crime to make ends meet, yah flippin’ pinko!

      • The most obvious common thread responsible for the burning, looting, other mayhem is most obvious indeed, both organized and unorganized crimes.

  1. anti-gun wolf in sheeps clothing.

    Everyone of these is the contrived basis for all the major talking points of the anti-gun industry as part of their overall dreamed confiscation and 100% ban plan.

  2. What a load of crap. They have their goals and their agenda and will spin absolutely anything to achieve those goals. If laws worked we would simply pass a law saying that it’s illegal to murder people with a gun and all murders with firearms would cease immediately.

    • Word from FL is that nearly nobody gets them back easily, or cheaply. And county sheriffs are asking for increased storage in their budget proposals.

      It is entirely up to the judge (ie, entirely subjective), you are not informed of the accusation if the judge does not sign a confiscation order, if he does sign, you are informed when they show up at your door to take away your property. Your accuser and the cops have civil immunity. Etc, etc, etc.

      Stalin would be impressed, King Herod appalled.

  3. Violent misdemeanor laws: okay, maybe. Start with a key overlooked demographic and we’ll talk.

    Universal background checks: unenforceable tripe. How about prescription checks for street pharmacists? They’d work just the same way.

    Gun permit laws: rather than make up ham fisted ways to comply with a bullshit law why not get rid of the bullshit law?

    Red flag laws: Yes, lets treat everyone in the country like a SWATting target or a GWOT suspect to be shipped off to a CIA black site for months or years to later apologize with a “oops, my bad.”

    • Fake dacian,

      You really need to learn to misspell more words, use indecipherable ‘grammar’, and froth at the mouth more, if you want to sell your dacian impression. FAARRRR to rational, not nearly enough unhinged. And the “reich-wing”, you HAVE to rave about all the fascist Reich-Wingers.

      That’s a ‘no’ from me, Dawg. Oh, and ripping of someone else’s handle is STILL a dick move.

      • once there was Daclan,muttering incomprehensible nonsense like a pro. Than came Dacian. Same goofy mugshot.

        Even with MY weary eyes I picked up the difference straightaway.

        Reading comprehension is a learned, and pershable,m skill. Neverthelss it is valuable one

        • the post never once devolved into an unhinged rent about “Capitalvania.”

          OR hillbillies and uneducated Jethros…

      • On a Sunday lil D needs at least 1000 words to pay for the expenses of the upcoming week. Fake D’s short post does not fit.

    • Makes no sense why this article was posted as a positive in a seemingly pro gun group. We already have back ground checks … did they mean universal checks? I’m sure criminals will line up to do that. register my gun? I do not want a corrupt government knowing what I have and again …. I’m sure criminals will line up to register but mostly turn in there illegal guns. Red flag laws are being abused

  4. She’s always advocating her dysfunctional, paranoid, and communist gun control ideas in here. NONE OF THIS BULLSHlT IS ACCEPTABLE !!! This is ridiculous as there’s NO compromise with totalitarian lunatic tyrants and communists. They can find another country to immigrate to as far as I’m concerned. Damn near every mass shooter has bern one of them anyway.

    • Angela Nelson, who ideas these are, has not posted anything else on TTAG that I can find.
      Grace Stevens is merely showing us what some folks think, not her own views, unless I am mistaken.

        • GRA, think of the context. Grace Stevens is pro-2A. She posts articles that inform us of the plans and actions of those opposed to the 2A. Dan Z, John Boch and others on TTAG have done the same. It is important to be aware of our opposition.

          It’s fine if you feel it wastes your time, don’t read these articles. Just don’t accuse the messengers of spreading bad ideas. Those messages give us ammunition to fight back against the people that want to take our guns.

        • Good analisis of these sorts of pieces. I am thankful someone ELSE puts on the hip waders dons the gas mask, and runs orr to learn about what THEY are up to. Saves me a lot of angusi slogging through all the sewage out there.

          thanl you Grace for sparing us here from ignrance and/or hours of hard work every week.

  5. Every single one of those laws would only “treat” the symptom. These anti-gun people are not concerned with actually helping people, they’re only looking for ways to restrict rights while achieving nothing at all. The violent person still remains, and not a single gun control proposal will ever change that.

  6. Substitute the words: Persons, Places, and Effects” for “gun” in each of the “proposals” and Angela would probably have a more effective “platform”.

    Would Angela support these “proposals”? I highly doubt it.

    • When the red flag cops start taking cars and phones, Author Nelson will suddenly understand red flag laws are unconstitutional.

    • RR, I think Angela WOULD support your above proposals, because such writers do not think the rules would apply to them. Until they do. Only then, will she actually have a problem with her “common sense” laws. And sadly, people like Angela are hell bent on learning everything the hard way, even after others tried to warn them ahead of time.

  7. If someone has a “history of violence”, WTH are they doing out in normal society in the first place?? If they can’t find a gun they’ll likely use a vehicle, club, bare hands, make a simple IED out of thousands of readily-available and non-regulated materials or just stomp the hell out of someone with their boots.

    Regardless of the method of violence- dead is dead, injured is injured, or loss is loss. Firearms make that worse?

    The first legal premise in the US is that a person will obey the law and operate within society’s norms. Only when it is proven that they don’t, or can’t, should any action be taken, and then only against that particular individual and using all due process procedures as laid out specifically in the Constitution, and/or as adopted by the various states. When those adopted by some states skirt the US standard, they must be rescinded quickly and affectively by the courts or legislatures.

  8. “There are four policies the researchers estimate could reduce overall gun-related homicides by up to 28% and gun-related suicides by 6%…”

    [Citation Needed]

    1. Expanding the pool of “prohibited possessors” through violent misdemeanor inclusion: mere designation as a “prohibited possessor” has done absolutely nothing to keep firearms out of the hands of anyone who desires to possess a firearm. Those who commit felonies using firearms generally obtain them through means that are not constrained by “prohibited possessor” designation.

    2. Universal Background Checks: see above. Those who commit felonies using firearms generally obtain them through means that are not constrained by “prohibited possessor” designation and that do not involve a background check.

    3. Gun Permit Laws: Those who are “prohibited possessors” and/or those who commit felonies using firearms generally are not constrained, to acquire, possess, bear, or use firearms, by state-imposed licensing requirements.

    4. Red Flag Laws: there is a very narrow lane of constitutional muster for “Red Flag” laws. And even if managing to stay within that very narrow lane, they require authorities to act upon them. When violent cities such as Indianapolis have do-nothing-on-crime prosecutors like Rick Mears, who simply ignore legitimate Red Flag orders, they are impotent and ineffective (both the Red Flag laws, and the prosecutors).

    • not many years past, suicide with firearms ran about 30% of total deaths by the use f a firearm. Now that portion is closer to two thirds of all gun deaths, which class (deaths by gunshot) has grown by a figure very close to the additional suicides by guns. In other words throw out the increased numbers of suicides by firearm and the remaining numbers are very low, and stable.

      Yes, suicide IS a serious issue. But I cannot but help believe that one VERY serious factor in the rise of this phenomenon hs the FACT that since the early 1970’s some seventy millions of Americans have been murdered, declared by, first, their own mothers, and much of society agreeing that these not-hyet-born lives are trash. DO NOT tHINK that today’s youth are not keenly aware of this FACT. Many of them wonder WHO these fellow-humans were, and what aspect of society has been affected in what ways by their departures.
      And then we expect them to value other lives that were not spared? This is an YUUUUUGE non-sequitur.

      Nor is it lost on them the connexion between those terminated lives over the decades, considered worthless and expendible and what worth their own lives might have. Or not.

  9. So much wrong with this article I don’t even know where to start. I do have an idea though…everybody knows that the vast majority of the gun violence is being caused by a relatively small but well known group of individuals, most with extensive criminal histories. Start locking them up…and keep them locked up. Stop this revolving door policy that the democrats have put in place. These individuals know that they won’t ever be punished or held accountable for their actions.

    • I have a better idea than locking them up.

      Stop prosecuting gun law violations. Just remove the gun laws from the books. Encourage homeowners and private citizens to buy their own gun. Encourage those people to shoot when assaulted. The more criminals arriving at the cemetery, the better. Violent crime will be reduced drastically within 2 years, because the worst offenders will be busy pushing up daisies.

      • Misuse of a firearm during a felony should be a primary charge and not a plea bargain chip.
        That is a situation where someone was forced to do something under a weapon, not just the fact someone has control of a firearm for their own protection. The fact someone has a weapon in their home and they do a crime, doesn’t make that an offense.

      • Or, facing their repidly diminishing odds of continued existence, will be able to make an informed decision to modify their current behaviour. The bogus chimeric “threat” of some mild and short-lived consequences for their criminal behaviour simply fails to provide sufficient reverse impetus to push them toward changing their behaviour.

    • [I attempted to post this further up the page, but was blocked by WordPress. I goosed a few words to see if this will now get through as a repost here…]

      As a Christian, I firmly believe we are all created in God’s image, and therefore have inherent value for that very reason. It is – as aptly spoken by the late Dr. King – not a matter of color, but of character, and certain cultures promote degeneracy over honor. Such cultures are mired in the mindset that hard work is a betrayal to their communities, even as they rely on the fruits of someone else’s labor. The Left perpetuates this, and the result is an endless cycle of dependency. This is an interesting quote:

      “It has been 300 years since they were brought to this country, 160 years since they were freed, over 50 years since they were granted complete equal rights, and on top of that, they have had several decades of ‘rac!al pr!vilege’ thrown at them in the forms of jobs, money, and ‘ent!tlements’. And still, they continue thousands of times, every day, to fulfill the negative stereotypes that are held against them. Nothing ever helps these people; they are perpetual victims forever of their own causing. The only culture on the planet that seems incapable of pulling themselves up.”

      – John Stuart Mill, July 2022

      • If you want your child to grow up to be helpless, then you tell them they’re helpless. It’s evil what the Left has done and continues to do to black people. The best thing that could happen right now would be the SC ruling against affirmative action which everyone knows is unconstitutional anyway.

    • Hmm. Even after changing a few (assumedly) key words in my earlier attempted comment that was intended to be posted further up the page, but blocked by WordPress, it’s still blocked.

      I guess WordPress’ filters are getting tighter against free speech. All the spotlight is on Twitter, but WP has its own issues.

      • Sometimes it isn’t a word, but a simple phrase that you wouldn’t expect to trip the moderation function. It’s frustrating.

      • little [insert letter d] gets flagged for moderation.
        little e does not.
        Does TTAG have the ability to modify the moderation program? Jeremy S has led me to believe it’s just WordPress. So why the moderation on that first one?

        • Dan/Jeremy/John/TTAG are busy, I’m sure, and do not have the time to review modded comments (Jeremy has emphatically expressed his stance on this).

          That being said, if comments are being reviewed somehow, it’s still not clear which person/org is doing it, or how.

          On the plus side, the filters have been doing a good job keeping much of the spamming and bot links away. On the down side, we (as genuine participants) are routinely filtered and ghosted. When the filtering gets too heavy from time to time, I take a break and stay away from TTAG for up to several days.

  10. According to FBI data, you can reduce gun violence by 80% to 85% by actually putting 12% of criminals in prison.

    ~12% of criminals committing violent crime use a firearm, ~88% of criminals committing a violent crime use a ‘weapon’ other than a firearm. Why are these allowed to get out of jail, avoid bail, go seven to ten offenses before they serve an actual day of prison time if any. ~90% of the 12% of criminals committing violent crime using a firearm are out on the street today for at least five years before they are actually sent to prison even though they have been charged multiple times and have multiple offenses.

    And why is it that ~70% of the overall violent crime in the country takes place (collectively) in cities with democrat leadership but also have the fewest number of guns in the hands of criminals to begin (compared to the rest of the country not democrat held cities) with but also release more multiple offense violent criminals every 48 hours (~17,000 across the country) than any other areas in the country?

    And why is the the conviction rate less than 3% overall for violent criminals and the case solve rate less than 11% overall?

    According to FBI data you can reduce the murder rate by over 60% by actually putting black violent criminals in prison because they commit over 60% of the murders.

    what about that 88% of violent crime that does not use firearms ….

    ~1,300 (actually its increased to ~1,700 now but hasn’t stabilized there yet so I’ll stick with the stable point of ~1,300 for now) criminal knife attacks upon victims daily across the United States.

    ~3,500 (actually this has increased also to ~4,000 but hasn’t stabilized there yet so I’ll stick with the stable point of ~3,500 for now) criminal attacks upon victims daily across the United States by use of non-firearm ‘weapons’ (excluding knives) for example, hands/feet, bricks/rocks, bats, ligatures, vehicles, other ‘improvised weapons’ such as screw drivers or even #2 pencils and pens (just for schools alone last year there were ~ 38,000 such criminal attacks in school building or on school grounds against students and staff during school hours where ‘schools’ includes college campus also).

    And suicides…. people don’t use a gun to commit suicide because they have a gun, they commit suicide because they have mental health issues that drive them to it. So what about the over 100,000 annually who commit suicide by drug overdose when over 75% of them had access to a firearm?

    So overall, you want to reduce ALL violent crime by ~90%? Its not your contrived anti-gun staging for confiscation and 100% ban laws that only apply to the law abiding – it starts and continues by taking criminals off the streets and actually putting them in prison.

    Your problem isn’t guns, your problem is criminals. So why don’t a bunch of your ‘researchers’ work on that issue for a while and see what they can come up with.

    • “According to FBI”????

      Next you want us to listen to DOJ/CNN/NYT/Wopo/Joie Obiden/a Ouija Board or other reliable source?

  11. Is there anything about the job of a cop or soldier that isn’t violent?

    If all you do is talk about “history of violence” and stop there then you miss a very big and important aspect of society. If everyone wants to keep guns out of the hands of those with a history of violence then that in itself inherently says that America wants to render our military and law enforcement toothless. I realize that there are those that want to defund the cops or atleast remove their weapons. Maybe this is worth some discussion but like so many things surrounding guns, there isn’t much real thought to unintended consequences. These words DO mean things and we are not in any position to honestly say what specifically is meant by any of this to the point of ignoring this.

  12. Doesn’t look like 4 points that most firearms owners I know would approve of. Maybe the first two . . .oddly, there is NO mention of EDUCATING children ??? This is actually more important than apparently most people realize. No, we’d rather educate them on how it’s okay to want to become something other than how you were created. Red Flag laws as written are extremely flawed . . . And laws that make someone a FELON for using a firearm in a state where they do not have a permit violate the 2nd Amendment.

  13. Here’s why this proposal is a joke. They introduce the problem (escalating firearm homicide rates) that they’re going to fix.

    From the article:
    the firearm homicide rate in the U.S. increased almost 35% from 2019 to 2020. And from 2020 to 2021, the percentage of homicides attributed to gun injuries increased from 79% to 81% —the highest percentage in more than 50 years.

    That’s a very recent increase. Why didn’t they focus their resources on identifying exactly what led to that increase? You can’t expect to solve a problem without first properly identifying the problem. They don’t want to know the answer. It’s inconvenient for them and their goals.

    • its already known what caused that.

      80% – 85% was criminals shooting criminals, cops shooting criminals, and legal valid defense by DGU by ordinary law abiding citizens.

      the category of ‘homicide’ does not always mean murder like anti-gun wants to imply. its a broad category the also includes ‘justified homicide’ such as legal valid defense by DGU by ordinary law abiding citizens and justified legal police shootings.

      • I’m talking about the very recent, very abrupt increase. That’s what researchers should be studying. You find the solution by first identifying the cause (for the increase, not crime in general – we’ll always have crime).

        • Free money to buy ammo, gasoline and blackmarket dope. Sudden spike in crime.

          SHOCKER!!!

          Give an entrepreneur capital, an increase in activity follows…

        • You didn’t explain why there was an increase of 35% from 2019 to 2020. You don’t have to. I understand why it happened. What I’m saying is these “researchers” are using that increase to justify their gun control policies without examining exactly what led to that specific increase. All they have to do is examine specifically what led to the increase and change that. It wouldn’t be difficult since we’re talking about a change that occurred in the past 2-3 years.

      • I will explain it for you, Open Borders, No Cash Bond, all Democrats endorsing violence. Never forget, Democrat Party was formed in 1792 to keep slavery, they started a Civil War to keep slavery, they lynched over 3000 Black and over 1000 White Republicans who endorsed Black rights, they formed the klan after losing the war, they fought the Civil Rights Act put forth by Republicans along with the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments, and most recently endorsed the violence against the police and the rioting in the streets with the current vice president getting the arrested offenders rioters out on bond. They are the most racist, violent organization in existence over the last 300 years.

        • You missed voted AGAINST women’s right to vote…

          In 1878, the Nineteenth Amendment was introduced as a resolution to the U.S. Constitution by Sen. Aaron Sargent (R-CA). This amendment—also known as the Susan B. Anthony Amendment—was blocked four times by the then-controlled Democratic Senate. It wasn’t until 1919, when the Republicans regained control of Congress, that the Nineteenth Amendment passed.

      • Amen, XZX. I remember an article (from California?), of a man who “Red Flagged” his ex-girlfriend. After the authorities dutifully disarmed her, he went back and killed her, knowing she would be unarmed and defenseless. Now just substitute “ex-boyfriend” for “government official”, and you can see where this is headed. For anyone who is remotely aware of the bigger picture.

    • “Why didn’t they focus their resources on identifying exactly what led to that increase?”

      Because they already know what it is. The same thing driving a mental health crisis, huge jumps in infertility and heart issues, why no one wants to work and global warming.

      Long Covid. Because some people aren’t fully boosted.

      Now, I know what you’re thinking; That this doesn’t make sense. That’s just because you’re a dumbass rube. Now go get your booster. Save a grandma, or a kid, or a whale or the government. Save something. It doesn’t much matter what it is. Just… trust Pfizer man, they know what’s up.

  14. “Researchers say” is a catch phrase used to dress up something that the author knows is loaded with cow excrement. Another phrase they use is “experts say” and when they then move directly to the word simple and then throw in a shovel full of the good old bandwagon appeal of “everyone agrees”, you can be sure that what you are going to be left with is what always ends up on the ground after the horse pulling that bandwagon is long gone, premium quality post processed used horse food!

    • “everyone agrees”

      “Look! Even gun owners want these policies!” It’s like the Lincoln Project and people like Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger. “Look! Even brave Republicans believe this!” There’s a sucker born every minute. The truth is, those people have effectively become Democrats. Cheney even campaigned for Democrats. Remind which conservative policies those brave Republicans are fighting for?

      The MSM tried to make it look like half of Republicans were against Trump. The truth was closer to 1%. That 1% just happens to be the power players. Regular people made up the 99%. In other words, the 1% was effectively against the 99%. And the “for the little guy” Democrats cheered it on.

      • Many of the people that were Trump supporters do NOT identify as Republicans. Trump was a populist president and did things for the good of working Americans(not so much for the people in power that made their money importing goods from other countries).
        When your policies shrink the middle class by taking their jobs, you are hurting the country, when you allow private industry to manufacture product, hiring Americans, that helps the country.

  15. Libruls are always researching stupid shitz. The problem is, they never leave their make-believe worlds in academia to conduct their research. Librul academia is happy to host, and to fund, make-believe research that supports their agenda.

  16. A good start would be executing all death row inmates, people with over natural life sentences, Rapist, child molesters and violent career criminals… if we were to get rid of those useless eaters in our society, we would have a much better country … then pass laws to execute all terrorist, cartel members, gang members , Career criminals, murderers and fentanyl/drug traffickers entering our country from foreign lands… in places where the laws are not being enforced, form up groups of citizens to go give straight justice to these people not being kept in jails or prosecuted… we have to eliminate trash in this country…and send a message to the rest of the world… finally we should pass laws that double tax activist loons that want to keep these horrible people alive… because I’m tired of feeding them with my hard earned money…

  17. So, the very same governmental entities that once labelled the carpet bombing of huge swaths of Vietnam as ‘Pacification,’ referred to civilian deaths in conflict zones and nuclear detonations as ‘collateral damage,’ and has redefined speed bumps as ‘traffic calming,’ is going to determine what constitutes ‘violent.’

    Number 3 on the list of things you can never believe, no matter who says them – “I am from the government. I’m here to help you.”

  18. Nope, I do not agree with any of the above “propositions”. Nelson must be living in a world of unicorns that fart fairy dust.

  19. “ Ragnar November 19, 2022 At 09:27
    GRA, think of the context. Grace Stevens is pro-2A. She posts articles that inform us of the plans and actions of those opposed to the 2A. Dan Z, John Boch and others on TTAG have done the same. It is important to be aware of our opposition.

    It’s fine if you feel it wastes your time, don’t read these articles. Just don’t accuse the messengers of spreading bad ideas. Those messages give us ammunition to fight back against the people that want to take our guns”

    AND … my statement will stay. If YOU don’t like it DONT READ IT

    • What’s the old saying, “keep your friends close and your enemies closer”!
      Articles by Grace and others keep POTG informed relative to the left’s
      arguments. Surprises are avoided by knowing in advance any argument
      that may be presented, thus giving ammunition to counter and deflate any
      argument and or positions. Hard to fight if the enemies positions and
      strategies are unknown.,

  20. The estimate is historically way too low.

    Even if the estimate of 28% were true it means out of every 100 people normally killed, 28 would survive but the Far Right Morons are screaming “Losses can never be to high when it comes to inconveniencing us with gun control”.

  21. I would say no to all of these for the simple reason they are ripe for abuse by any .gov agency, judiciary, law enforcement ect.

    All of the laws needed, and then some, are already on the books. Any others are just dangerous for the average gun owner.

  22. Ok lets debunk all 4 of these things one at a time. 1. Criminals don’t follow the law so any and all of the above are irrelevant. 2. Very few people who lie on their NICS applications are prosecuted despite the fact that it clearly states you are subject to a $250,000 fine and 5 years in jail for lying on your application. 3. Gun permits will not stop a criminal from getting their hands on a gun to commit a crime and this is just another example of laws made to penalize law abiding gun owners or create an illegal gun registry. 4. Red Flag laws do not ensure due process because your firearms are confiscated illegally without a warrant before they have ample evidence to do so. The Supreme Court has ruled no warrant no search. Red Flag is a violation of both the 2nd and 4th amendments. Red Flag presumes you are guilty before all the facts are known and there is too much room for abuse in States that are anti-2nd Amendment. Sorry folks but the study is not going to result in 28% less of anything because most of those types of things are in effect in most places now and they don’t work. A better approach would be to refund the police, close our borders and allow legal immigration only, and obey the Bruen decision on the 2nd Amendment. If you want to stop the crime give people the ability to defend themselves and enforce the laws that really make a difference.

    • “2. Very few people who lie on their NICS applications are prosecuted despite the fact that it clearly states you are subject to a $250,000 fine and 5 years in jail for lying on your application.”

      That’s beginning to change, and not in a good way. By a literal interpretation of the law, *any* error or typo on a 4473 can be called a ‘lie’, and prosecuted.

      As the light bulb of understanding what the ‘Bruen’ ruling *really* means to their plans, I fully expect they will begin to scrutinize the 4473s to attack us…

  23. As noted earlier, what a load of crap.

    Here you go folks, it’s REAL simple. One rule.

    If you’re too dangerous to be walking around on the streets with a gun, then you are ALSO too dangerous to be walking around on the streets WITHOUT a gun.

    Of course, the gun-haters would put half of us in jail based on this, but there you go, that’s what they really want anyway.

    • “Of course, the gun-haters would put half of us in jail based on this,…”

      Go back to Strych9’s comment yesterday about when he lived in the ‘hood at 2 times in his life, and what the relationship between the cops and the residents of the ‘hood was.

      One little slip-up with a traffic ticket on someone poor who can’t pay that ticket rapidly can trigger a chain of events that makes you a prohibited person, for life.

      Weaponizing the police is the greatest threat to freedom there is…

  24. (1) The problem, Siegel points out, is that under current federal law, unless someone commits a felony offense,
    The problem is the broad stroke that blankets “violent misdemeanors” which covers everything from verbal threats to actual physical assault and in many cases actual kidnappings. Change the fucking law, make CRIMINALS CRIMINALS…. CA and I believe CO already have similar laws in place, how has it worked out for them? In CA use a gun to shoot a cop sit in jail, run over 25 cop recruits out for a morning jog and get released next day WITHOUT bail… FIX the laws.

    (2) In some states, when a person buys a gun, the retailer must run a point-of-purchase background check
    Same old bullshit (in SOME states) In ALL states FFL dealers are FEDERALLY REQUIRED to run a background check…

    (3) A state gun permitting system has multiple benefits for gun owners,
    The benefit here is to the state creating a gun registry which is FEDERALLY illegal…

    (4) The gun owner would have the right to a hearing, and when the order is rescinded, they would get their guns back quickly.”
    In other words, we still take the guns PRIOR to a hearing, where is the DUE PROCESS in that? The owner has the right to a hearing which in some cases could take months due to the backlog in the court systems, are you going to appoint a “special panel” of judges in every state just to hear Red Flag cases?

  25. One out of four looks reasonable. The rest have been tried and do absolutely nothing to reduce violence committed with a firearm.

    • but they DO result in thousands of innocent folks who have harmed no one being jailed and stripped of their basic liberties.

      A major overhaul of the “criminal justice system”needs to be done. The ONLY crimes that would warrant incarceration must involve a VICTIM who was HARMED. My loaning ,my rifle to a friend who is visiting me to “try that one out” being a :felony offense” is a crime perpetrated upon ME by government. Now if my friend Pete, visiting for the afternoon then takes the gun he has borrowe to”try it out” runs next door and murders my neighbiur, then we have a problem. But since “Pete” is my frien, I know him well enough to KNOW he would be no more likely to do that than I would. Their imagined “problem” simply isn’t a probem

  26. Please understand the major flaw…”Gun Violence Reduced By 28%”…Why?
    I VIOLENTLY DISAGREE THAT THIS IS EITHER NECESSARY OR EVEN DESIRABLE.
    Maybe “Accidental Childhood Deaths via Electrocution From Toasters” might be desirable, but the whole idea of a Deterrent is to ALLOW IT TO DETER.
    We really need to appoint a committee to draft new laws carving out 28% of violent perps to be given another thousand chances to kill MY family? Screw You!
    Drunk Drivers should DIE or lose their permission to drive. If little Jimmy is a bully and a hood growing up, he had his thousand chances. His thousand and first crime should happily eject him from the Gene Pool. Why else does a pool have a lifeguard? When he is minutes away, eating his lunch, WE take care of business.
    Pool Rules are a BITCH. ‘Bye Jimmy!!!

    • must get this next bit right: ONLY someone who has taken innocent life is liable for the death penalty, but ALL of those MUST be so treated.

      Now when “Litttle Jimmy” steals the neighbour’s hotrod Chevy takes to the highway and crashes into someone, destroying their car AND his neighbour’s, and putting three people in hospital, well Little Jimmy MUST be on the hook for all the various types of damage he has caused.

      this business of “the state” being the ine harmed when Little Jimmie goes berko must be ended. At best the State should stand in for the victim, levy the punishment and se to it restoration is provided by the perpetrator. Instead the state plays victim and denies the true victum their just due.

      • well Little Jimmy MUST be on the hook

        If “Little Jimmy” stole one of MY fukin hotrods Little Jimmy would have WAY bigger problems than whatever the Government might or might not do to him no matter if he wrecked it and hurt someone or not. MY justice would be swift, unforgiving and memorable… Little Jimmy would probably be revulsed by the very idea of driving ANY car ever again when I finished with him.

  27. As would be expected in anything from Grace Stevens appearing on TTAG this is a pile of anti-gun nonsense disguised as “common sense” and “bipartisan”

    The first lie is in the section on the supposed need for a lifetime gun ban from anyone with a misdemeanor characterized as violent. The claptrap says “The problem, Siegel points out, is that under current federal law, unless someone commits a felony offense, they are not prohibited from having a gun in some states” which, of course, everyone should know is false. Federal standards impose a lifetime ban for misdemeanors characterized as “domestic violence” — from an anti-gun standpoint this is inadequate because some states require there to actually be violence and other states actually have requirements about what constitutes “domestic”. From a rational gun-owner standpoint this can sometimes be grossly excessive because in many states two people yelling at each other constitutes “domestic violence” if they live together or are related or have ever dated. By definition, misdemeanors are crimes that are not particularly serious — a lifetime ban for an inconsistently defined crime that is very often a “he said/she said” situation without real evidence is inappropriate. (Actually, any lifetime ban would have a hard time passing the standard described in Bruen). The much more logical approach would be for states to prosecute real crimes of violence as the felonies they generally are.

    The next group of lies are in the paragraph espousing Universal Background Checks. According to Siegel “In some states, when a person buys a gun, the retailer must run a point-of-purchase background check.” Some states? How about all 50 states, plus the District of Columbia and all US territories! OK, admittedly there are some states where a valid state-issued Concealed Carry Permit is accepted as evidence that the state has already run a background check — as it should be! What Siegel doesn’t mention is that the ONLY way to make the so-called “Universal Background Check” work and be enforced is by establishing a 100% registration system tracking every single gun and its owner. Without the gun registration database there is no way to determine if a background check was performed.

    Siegel then demands Gun Permit Laws, where the state determines whether or not you are allowed to exercise a constitutional right. Should we also have Free Speech Permits, and Property Ownership Permits? And if we are going to have Gun Permits, why would we need Universal Background Checks, or any background checks at all on guns — wouldn’t the state run a background check before issuing a gun permit?

    Finally Siegel wants Red Flag Laws and says (with no evidence) that these laws would magically be imbued with “lots of due process” which would somehow protect gun owners rights and prevent abuse. Of course, no Red Flag law ever proposed had included either of those provisions. Every existing or proposed Red Flag law is an ex parte process where the order to confiscate guns is issued without prior notice to the gun owner and without the gun owner being entitled to any sort of hearing until after then guns have already been seized. Likewise no existing or proposed Red Flag law makes the law enforcement agency seizing the guns responsible for loss or damage and no existing or proposed Red Flag law has criminal penalties for abuse.

    Beyond the legal and administrative problems with Red Flag laws, the most important problem is that they CANNOT work. If the subject really is “a danger to self or others” taking away their guns is not an effective solution — nor is it necessary. EVERY STATE already has laws allowing the state to take effective action against any person who is legally found to be a “danger to self or others” — in most states that is called a Mental Health Inquest — the problem from anti-gun perspective is that Mental Health laws generally HAVE legal protections of due process. If the person is a danger, then lock up the person, don’t just take away their guns and leave them to get another gun elsewhere or a knife, or a car, or gasoline, etc., etc.

    • You are well spoken, Xuan Loc. I would take issue with you regarding Grace’s motives for reporting a story. Like Fox News, she reports, YOU decide. The meat of the story is a report on another end-run tactic to declare armed Americans to be criminals.
      Let me tag onto your well-written response.
      NO ONE has yet considered that it is a CRIMINAL and VIOLENT act to deprive an American Citizen of His/Her RIGHTS or PROPERTY, especially under color of authority. Red Flag Laws are VIOLENCE!
      They cover the commission of a CRIME. Let’s start treating them as such!

    • Xaun Loc: “As would be expected in anything from Grace Stevens appearing on TTAG this is a pile of anti-gun nonsense disguised as “common sense” and “bipartisan”
      Saying that “anything” is like saying “everyone” does such and such. There is no historical basis for your comment relative to what Grace Stevens has posted. “Anything” is all inclusive and that just is not factual.

      As would be expected, Grace Stevens has reported “common sense and bipartisan” opinions from the left and in no was has implied that they are facts from the right/POTG and in no way represent “common sense or bipartisan” on behalf of POTG.

  28. Let me suggest some much better alternatives that will actually do something:

    1. Make gun ownership by DemonCraps illegal (this will give the most improvement),
    2. Let law enforcement go after Gangs with impunity, this especially applies to Mexican drug cartel members. Make their lifes short and brutal.
    3. To help law enforcement, offer a bounty to the public for taking out known gang/cartel members,
    4. Repeal the NFA, GCA, and all other 2cd amendment infringements based on the recent Bruen ruling. Prosecute and jail any politician who proposes or attempts to pass laws that infringe on the 2cd amendment and ban them from any possibility of future public office down to and including dog catcher.
    5. Seal our borders with shoot on sight orders, no one enters without going through normal entry processes (and that is not the catch and release crap we now have). Clearly state that unless an immigrant entered the US in a legal manner, they will NEVER be able to be come a US citizen.
    6.Teach gun safety in the schools to all children from 10 years old and up. Encourage gun mastery to any who are interested until graduation. This will greatly improve the quality of any candidates who want a military career.
    7. Eliminate the teaching of CRT and woke policies in school. Fire any and all teachers who insist on teaching this poison to our children. Forbid these teachers from every teaching in public schools again, anywhere, anyhow.

    Those ideas should yield some REAL improvements.

    Marshall

  29. A Red Flag order violates the Constitutional rights of the person being served with it. And in ORtardia, if you fight it, you permanently lose your gun rights. There are already mental health laws on the books in all states, so creating new ones is not needed, we just need to enforce the existing ones.

  30. An attacker opened fire in a gay nightclub late Saturday, killing five people and wounding 18, officials said. The club said the suspect was subdued by patrons.
    Authorities received a report of a shooting at Club Q at 11:57 p.m. and responded within minutes, said Lt. Pamela Castro of the Colorado Springs Police Department.

    Which one of their “solutions” would have stopped this?

  31. All four of these “solutions” would hardly make a dent in the increasing criminal activity in some of major cities. FBI information and one on one interviews of incarcerated criminals shows that by far, these folks obtained their firearms illegally. How do any of those four “solutions” address that? They don’t. Does anyone logically think that gun permits, putting yet another law on the books saying “no you can’t buy or own a gun if you’ve committed violent misdemeanors”, or doing universal background checks will prevent someone with evil mentality of getting gun if they want one? So basically, three of these solutions never address the problem in the first place and the fourth with Red Flag laws the way most are worded seriously violate due process AND are ripe for abuse by the government itself and vengeful hurt parties in personal issues. Back to the drawing board, guys. Articulate the REAL problems first and craft viable solutions for maximum impact on the criminal element – not for maximum impact on law-abiding citizens.

  32. @Crimson Pirate & Haz:
    Please give us some references to find Professor Sowell’s works.
    Red Flag Laws are SLAVERY. They take a basic right (to life) and shackle your hands.
    Please note over all the discussion that those who are designing the Ice Cream Castles In The Sky where we will all follow their voluminously sprouting edicts have a few gnarly personality flaws:
    They neither admit nor even consider their own responsibility. Notably, if you WATCH CNN, YOU ARE THE ROBOTIC MIND-CONTROLLED PROBLEM. Go out and Citizens Arrest some MS13r’s using a gun to commit a crime. Don’t come back til you do.
    Political “Activism” is a scam, designed to embarrass or guilt trip OTHERS to do YOUR dirty work. We have had few Real Heroes from the Left since Martin Luther King.
    You will NEVER find these trolls on a helicopter next to you. Ever. They pay NO dues, share NO deprivations and are in NO personal danger of any kind.
    They are Stay At Home Karens, and they live to boss others around.
    We find ourselves in the real world, dealing with THEIR mistakes.
    Pipe Dream Laws?
    NO THANK YOU.
    Maybe we should throw these overeducated fools into Boston harbor and keep the tea.

  33. None of these will do anything, but Red Flag Laws really grind my gears. They come in two flavors: preventing suicide or pre crime.

    Pre crime is a joke. If you grant government the power to take your property because they THINK you MIGHT commit a crime, then you might as well be one of the trafficked girls on Epstein Island. Cause dropping to your knees to pleasure your master before being locked away again is all you’re good for.

    Suicide prevention? You mean, spreading someone’s problems behind their back and making it part of public record? Then sending armed people to take their property? Yeah, let’s take potentially suicidal people and make them feel betrayed, isolated, and powerless. That’ll help them feel better.

  34. Nope nope nope, not smart thinking, it’s just a door to gain more control of a persons right to defend themselves and even their country.
    Who is and what is Violence , violent and considered dangerous.
    Well, lets take a peak into the world of violence.
    Let’s start eliminating violent people.
    Combat trained US armed forces, active and retired 85%.
    Police officers and security personal , minimum 85%.
    Moms that have a child in danger , used to be in the high 90% range, now probably around 65 -70 %.
    Professional fighters, well hopefully 90 plus percent.
    Probably 50% of drunken men and women.
    People crazed on drugs, both street and prescribed.
    Married and non married couple who share a living space are about 50% likely to be violent at some time in the relationship.
    At what point does tackling and knocking people over become non violent.
    How many people reading this have never felt road rage and since when has rage been stripped from it synonym of violence. There 112 listed synonyms listed on line for violence.
    This is not and should not be a common ground between gun controllers and freedom lovers.
    There isn’t truly anything that should deprive a legal citizen of their right to defend themself, whether it be some future possible event or of past mistakes.

  35. @Tim in Tejas:
    Well said! Especially your insightful understanding of suicide…
    Lib mouthed dandies had a field day “expressing themselves” when we all came home from SE Asia. No derogatory comment, accusation or hurtful insult was off-limits. Our homes, friends, girl friends, and welcoming social structures disappeared. Consequently, we indulged in non risk-averse lifestyles, just like our WWII uncles did. I rode a minimum of 2 hours a day, full-on. Cafe Racer.
    If the Llewellen’s Fart Winged Canary experienced such a Male Die Off as we have had, phones would ring in the night and Congress would convene over it.
    These same dandies have floated to the top of their respective toilet bowls. They are now Judges, Newspaper Owners and Politicians. Same smarmy, vicious mouths; even more psychotic unhinged ideas to hobble those they feel are below them. And the obvious causes of the world’s problems. Us, in the “Basket of Deplorables”.
    Bad Acting actually HAS consequences. If you take my (One and Precious) right from me, how many rights of yours are you giving up in trade?
    15? 20?
    And don’t bother trying to tell me which ones you will give up. I WILL DECIDE WHICH RIGHTS I WILL TAKE FROM YOU!
    Now THIS is how “Red Flag” laws will be…
    I have spoken.

    • In a world where red flag restrictions become the new norm, only the rich and powerful will have the option of immediate and decisive self protection under the wings of their professional protectors.
      With cameras, Alexa and the like, no one will be allowed to have a bad day, a moment of rage, without the grabbers throwing a flag and crying violence.

  36. I would point out, that many of the recent shootings,including the Colorado Springs Gay Bar Shooting, took place in States with Red Flag Laws, and that a disproportionate number of these Shooters were known to authorities, yet never had their weapons seized.
    So tell me again how Red Flag Laws will prevent these shootings with a straight face.

  37. Totally unacceptable way of trying to stop gun violence. If someone wants to kill someone the lack of a gun will not stop them. They will use a knife, machete, club or a bomb. Result is still the same. Someone is dead.

  38. I answer every suggestion of hers with “Shall not be Infringed”. The term ‘Shall’, according to Black’s Law Dictionary, means ‘has a duty to’. This definition illustrates a compulsory aspect associated with the duty specified. Thus, it is mandatory on the person or legal entity performing the duty. In contracts, the word ‘Shall’ is traditionally used to convey a duty or obligation in relation … “Not”, Synonyms for not legal include unconstitutional, unlawful, illicit, illegitimate, banned, forbidden, illegal, prohibited, unofficial and wrongful. Be Infringed, vb. in·fringed. in·fring·ing. [Medieval Latin infringere, from Latin, to break, crush, from in- in + frangere to break] vt. : to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another [the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed ” Since she has a Constitutional deficiency in understanding the Bill of Rights, I thought I might break it down a bit clearer for her. IMO, her merely suggesting these recommendations leaves room for litigation for conspiracy to deprive others of their Constitutional Rights provided in the Bill of Rights.

  39. Sounds like gun control to me. Universal background checks, gun permits, red flag laws with no proof (just someone’s say so). All ways to take away your guns because you are on a list of gun owners. The right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. PERIOD!!! A history of violence should be handled by proper punishment, NOT in one door and out the other.

  40. Can anybody explain to me my TTAG keeps pushing bullshit gun control stories as if they’re news? Why amp gun control opinion pieces? This one in particular isn’t even well thought out.

    • I was wondering the same thing, have we got some very coy wolves on here writing articles that appeal to the short sided , emotionally reactive , among us.
      We, as a species, will never squelch the need or apparent needs, to be violent. It is an inherent part of what we are, and in situation after situation, it is called upon in proper times, to be violent for the defense of truth, fairness and adjudication of justice. It is indicated in the laws that govern our society, and those precepts and principles designed to maintain our GOD endowed freedoms, that we occasionally display violence.
      A Red Flag law could never be written that would guarantee the implementation of it to be fair and judicial for the entire population of a common man.

  41. People attest that they are not criminals, not subject to domestic violence restrictions n, don’t have a psych history or are using drugs or an alcoholic , when they apply for a background check. I feel that a medical drug test should be done as part of the process for those under 25 I think many of the multiple shooters are on drugs that would disqualify them from owning a gun but that they are lying on the form. In the past, people with a psych problem would be in a public psych hospital and would be placed on a don’t buy list on discharge. Now, most public psych hospitals are closed, and private ones don’t report.

    • The fix to this would be to actually prosecute those that lie on their forms as it IS a felony. I’m not in favor of ANY new laws until we’re actually enforcing the laws on the books.

  42. I feel that a medical drug test should be done as part of the process for those under 25

    So, do you add the cost of a medical professional at EVERY FFL in the US that is qualified to take that sample, to EVERYONES background check? Do you put a form online for download to take to the local clinic? The Walmart shooter was a 31 year old black man with a mental problem who had purchased his gun that morning to take out a few employees that he felt were making fun of him and laughing at him. Drugs are not the issue in these “mass shootings” most are precipitated by personal issues, maybe if everyone just treated everyone else humanely, stop bullying and making fun of those whom you perceive to be different, THAT is the basis for the majority of these shootings. The 2nd Amendment says the PEOPLES right to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed, there is nothing about restrictions for drug use or any other issue. The form 4473 in itself is an Unconstitutional roadblock to gun ownership, pretty much a preemptive Red Flag Law.

  43. For never was there anything more unbearable to the human race than personal freedom!
    Dost thy see these stones in the wilderness?
    Command that they be made into bread and mankind will run after thee, obedient and grateful like a herd of cattle , but even then we will be trembling before you lest thou should take away thy hand and the bread is lost. Thou didst refuse this miracle to save mankind of his freedom of choice, for where is there free choice , when men can be bribed with bread?
    Thou hath said, man does not live by bread alone.
    It is none other than The Christ of Christianity that laid the burden weight of freedom across the shoulders of humanity, by standing firm to the trickery and bribery of his only true adversary.
    Dostoevsky
    The Grand Inquisitor
    Not quoted, taken from memory.

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