DOJ Demands All ATN Obsidian 4 Rifle Scope App Users’ Information from Apple, Google

ATN’s Obsidian 4 app allows you to connect your smart phone to products like their X-Sight 4K Pro night vision or the ThOR 4 thermal optics.

From Apple’s App Store:

This is the Future of Optics!

The Obsidian 4 application is here to enhance your experience when using the ATN X-Sight 4K and/or the ThOR 4 product lines. This application connects your smart phone, or tablet, to your ATN device via Wifi. This connection allows you to watch a live video stream of your hunt on your smart phone or tablet. The Obsidian 4 app lets you to adjust/change the various settings on your ATN Smart scope, and review the images and videos stored on your scopes microSD card.

Download the Obsidian 4 app today and Unlock the true potential of your Obsidian 4 device!

But now, as Forbes is reporting, the US Department of Justice is demanding user information for more than 10,000 people who have downloaded the Obsidian 4 app.

…Apple and Google have been ordered by the U.S. government to hand over names, phone numbers and other identifying data of at least 10,000 users of a single gun scope app, Forbes has discovered. It’s an unprecedented move: never before has a case been disclosed in which American investigators demanded personal data of users of a single app from Apple and Google. And never has an order been made public where the feds have asked the Silicon Valley giants for info on so many thousands of people in one go.

According to a court order filed by the Department of Justice (DOJ) on 5 September, investigators want information on users of Obsidian 4, a tool used to control rifle scopes made by night vision specialist American Technologies Network Corp. The app allows gun owners to get a live stream, take video and calibrate their gun scope from an Android or iPhone device.

It isn’t clear yet whether either tech giant will comply with such a broad order affecting their customers. Why is the DOJ concerned enough to want to Hoover up all that user data?

Night vision and thermal optics are highly controlled under ITAR regulations, so you have to figure this has something to do with exports of the technology.

ATN Thor 4 scope

Sure enough, according to Forbes . . .

The Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) department is seeking information as part of a broad investigation into possible breaches of weapons export regulations. It’s looking into illegal exports of ATN’s scope, though the company itself isn’t under investigation, according to the order. As part of that, investigators are looking for a quick way to find out where the app is in use, as that will likely indicate where the hardware has been shipped. ICE has repeatedly intercepted illegal shipments of the scope, which is controlled under the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR), according to the government court filing. They included shipments to Canada, the Netherlands and Hong Kong where the necessary licenses hadn’t been obtained.

“This pattern of unlawful, attempted exports of this rifle scope in combination with the manner in which the ATN Obsidian 4 application is paired with this scope manufactured by Company A supports the conclusion that the information requested herein will assist the government in identifying networks engaged in the unlawful export of this rifle scope through identifying end users located in countries to which export of this item is restricted,” the government order reads. (The order was supposed to have been sealed, but Forbes obtained it before the document was hidden from public view).

So the .gov is investigating allegedly non-ITAR compliant exports of these sophisticated scopes. Exported by whom, isn’t clear. ITAR-regulated product manufacturers such as ATN take these export restrictions very seriously.

These scopes are sold by retailers all over the country such as Bass Pro, Sportsman’s Guide, Optics Planet and many more, so there are a lot of downstream parties who may have exported the scopes, attracting the DOJ’s attention.

So the feds want all that personal data to locate overseas users.

Apple and Google have been told to hand over not just the names of anyone who downloaded the scope app from August 1 2017 to the current date, but their telephone numbers and IP addresses too, which could be used to determine the location of the user. The government also wants to know when users were operating the app.

But the order from the DOJ demands all user data, not just those with IP addresses located outside the US. Which means a lot of perfectly legal users of ATN products — hog hunters and the like — will have their information turned over to the feds, too…assuming Apple and Google comply.

TTAG spoke to ATN and they provided us with this statement:

American Technologies Network Corp. (“ATN”) today learned of the possible existence of a federal order issued to Apple and Google to provide usernames regarding one of our products, the ATN Obsidian 4. ATN was unaware of these allegations until the publication of a Forbes magazine article entitled, “Exclusive: Feds Order Apple And Google To Hand Over Names Of 10,000+ Users Of A Gun Scope App”.

ATN has not been contacted by the Department of Justice, Apple, or Google.  ATN will protect its customers and their identifying data to the absolute extent possible under U.S. law. And, it will not provide any information regarding the identity of our customers to any third party unless specifically required by law.

Stay tuned.

comments

  1. avatar arc says:

    Google will most certainly comply, which is why I’m no longer using google (government approved) ankle bracelets!

    If I used the app with this, it would be downloaded from a third party store via TOR or VPN and put onto one of my older phones, which I would cripple the antenna or controller on.

    1. avatar Patrick says:

      I’ve always found it ironic that ITAR is applied to some product that can be manufactured overseas but are currently in the US. I have a March Optics scope made 100% in Japan but according to the paperwork, it is ITAR controlled. I believe I remember seeing a picture of an ATN scope labeled “Made in Belarus”. I would guess this contains many components from China as well.

    2. avatar Rusty - Molon Labe - Chains says:

      If I bothered with something like this (too many $) I would put the app on a tablet since it has no cell and you can turn off wifi. If you are all that paranoid drop it in an EMP bag, but I just don’t see them going after hog hunters in the US, this is about China getting hold of this stuff and mass producing it for distribution to bad folks around the world.

      1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

        China makes plenty of this stuff for the consumer market, including ones more advanced and more powerful than anything ATN offers. Heck, most or all of ATN’s products are manufactured in China in the first place! This stuff is WAY way way way behind what China makes for its own military and such. They have zero interest in the technology in an ATN scope. It isn’t even cutting edge for the consumer market 🤷‍♂️

  2. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and *die*, Ruthie" PR says:

    Apple has in the past been rather reluctant to hand over data to the Feds, but in this case, “because evil guns”, something tells me Apple will be tripping over themselves to hand them the data…

  3. avatar Leslie says:

    And who’s the Head of the DoJ now?

    1. avatar Will Larimer says:

      A good guy. Who in the DoJ decided to commit this crime? Try not to be a maroon. Citizens are just lowballs to the deep state slime.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “A good guy.”

        Possibly, but we shall see. Trump has been snookered too easily, too many times.

        While 2A is vital, if DOJ lets the attempted coup of a sitting president go by without criminal trials we will know more than 2A is imperiled.

      2. avatar Leslie says:

        And yet he ordered this surveillance of someone’s electronics to take place! If you’re OK with that! What’s this Discussion Forum all about? I mean you’re perfectly fine with that, and have no reservations as to how far and/or long and whatever other directions this investigation has the potential of going. That’s your claim…

        1. avatar Gene says:

          Do we know if the President was aware of this. I haven’t reread the article but do not recall if his name was used but the DOJ was. Also why only department names used and no specific individual called out?
          Just curious.

        2. avatar Leslie says:

          Donald Trump picked William Barr as his Director for the DoJ! That’s like asking it Barack Obama didn’t have knowledge about James Comey’s FBI investigation of Donald Trump in 2016. If you don’t know what you’re subordinates are doing, the consequences could bite you in the ass at a later date. You don’t piecemeal authority away to just anyone, without knowing as to how it’s being used…

  4. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    Its obvious they are getting ready to confiscate this type of scope as being a danger to the government and the civilians. They need no law just a ruling to change a ruling with the usual kangaroo court hearing which will be ignored anyway. The ATF is also known for doing this. Just change a ruling not a law.

    Remember in a fake democracy such as the U.S. has the ruling elite are totally in control and the courts dance to their off beat tunes.

    1. avatar Leslie says:

      But the ATN Thor isn’t the only Smart Scope available to the general public…

    2. avatar jwm says:

      The US isn’t a democracy. Your lack of education is showing.

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        I am plenty educated I am so educated you would not believe how educated I am. You dont even know you are dancing to my beat off tune right now. It is a fact more than half of the readers of this blog dance with me every single time I play my beat off tune.

        1. avatar drunkEODguy says:

          lol you’re deranged, always good for a laugh, but deranged

    3. avatar Will Larimer says:

      Outlawed optics seems to be fresh territory for constitutional liars. The problem here is centered around the words “list of names”.

  5. avatar A says:

    I will never purchase the following:
    no smart door bells
    no smart light bulbs
    no smart locks
    nothing smart/Wifi enabled
    and FORSURE no smart enabled weapons or weapns systems.
    Christ on a cracker……

    Im 38 yo city boy trapped inside the body of a 1960’s hillbilly

    1. avatar jwtaylor says:

      If you live in a city you either have, or soon will have, a wifi monitored electric meter. You will also have a wifi enabled automobile and home air conditioner.
      And, your computer, and your phone.

      1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

        i pay extra monthly to not have a smart meter.

        1. avatar Gene says:

          How do you know that is what you are getting? How do we verify that is what was installed? I sure wouldn’t know. Maybe even the installer doesn’t know.

      2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Not necessarily, JW. My local semi-rural neighborhood cannot upgrade for certain logistical reasons, even though the nearby city of 100K+ residents has been installing them for years now. To install them in my area requires expensive infrastructure changes that have never been deemed as cost effective for the utility companies, and won’t be for decades to come due to the topographical layout. So I’m good.

        1. avatar jwtaylor says:

          You are good for now, but you won’t always be. And when you’re not, you might not even know it.

        2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Not my at my specific location. The zoning in my area won’t allow anyone on my property without exigent circumstances (LE in an emergency) or advance notice and approval (utility company), so the meter cannot be changed without my prior knowledge.

          Besides, the electric company isn’t the entity that reads my meter, anyhow, so they have no dog in this hunt.

      3. avatar Ing says:

        You don’t have to live in a city as such. My rural town of 30,000 got upgraded a few months ago…and we only got informed *after* the fact.

        The meters don’t belong to the homeowners, after all, and the power company can come do whatever they want (er, need…) to their delivery equipment.

      4. avatar Someone says:

        And tv set, blu-ray player, satelite tv box and A/V receiver.

    2. avatar GunnyGene says:

      ‘Enemy of the State’ comes to mind. Who’s gonna watch the watchers?

  6. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    Wow

  7. avatar 76shovel says:

    no comment

  8. avatar Mark says:

    Has the entire nation forgotten that generalized warrants are verboten?

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Not the entire nation, just the ATF. If these are subpoenas and not warrants, they have not been approved by a court. And yes, the demand is massively overbroad. I would think the tech exists to identify non-US IPs exists, and that therefore the breadth of the demand can be restricted. But we will see.

    2. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      Not at all,however the government uses the Constitution as a doormat.

  9. avatar Gun Owning American says:

    Communism at its finest.

    1. avatar guest says:

      Literally has nothing to do with that. Government overreach has no political party or ideology and never will.

  10. avatar Sarge605 says:

    The feds are taking the easy road, not the Constitutional road.
    Something about probable cause and unreasonable searches springs to mind.

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      So much for the fourth.

  11. avatar TommyJay says:

    “So the feds want all that personal data to locate overseas users.”
    No, they want data on all users. I highly doubt ATN would knowingly violate federal law, but do think that the feds would trick them into a technical violation as a pretense to go spying.

    “The order was supposed to have been sealed, but Forbes obtained it before the document was hidden from public view.”

    This sh_t happens all the time with the major tech companies and we never hear about it. I suspect that Apple tries harder than most to avoid it; on the other hand “The App Store” is a major opportunity for the Feds to do one-stop-spying.

    Microsoft gets strong armed by the Feds all the time, not because they want to (they’ve actually spent a lot on money on lawyers to fight this), but because they got so beat up by the Clinton DOC/DOJ over anti-trust way back when.

  12. avatar jwtaylor says:

    If what they want is location data then their request is overly broad.

    1. avatar rosignol says:

      Information for users outside of the US would be reasonable. This would be trivial to determine by checking the prefix on the phone number associated with the account. If the country code is anything other than +1, it’s not a US number.

  13. avatar Chris Brown says:

    My THOR 4 scope was just lost in a boating accident…..

    1. avatar jwtaylor says:

      Better lose your phone too because that’s where the app is installed.

  14. avatar James69 says:

    I looked at the x sight when shopping for a fun nightvison scope for nighttime pests, two and 4 legged. After some reading I bought the sightmark photon xt 4.6 fixed. Here’s why – it’s simple turn on and go. No bullshit software to download, no ballistic tablets, no video transmissions, no hokey updates to brick my scope. No gps,wifi, twitter,xm radio or any other nonsense. Plus all that crap devours the battery so fast you would be hard pressed to shoot for an evening with 2 battery packs strapped to the rifle.

    The photon xt uses 2 aa batterys found everywhere. Sight it in and shoot shit. It does have a video out if you must make a killshot video. Too much crap on the x sight.

    1. avatar Boomer says:

      You sound like you’re 69 years old

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        What the fuck is wrong with being 69 years old.. Even WE were young stupid punks like you once, but grew smart enough to live long enough to read dumbass comments like that.. Hopefully you too will be that fortunate..

        1. avatar GunnyGene says:

          I’m 75. Never had any trouble hitting what I was aiming at with standard military iron out to the effective range of the weapon (M1, M-14, M-16, and a few others). The only reason I use a scope (common Nikon Buckmaster) in the past few years is because my eyes aren’t young as they used to be.

          And if it comes to pass that I need some kind of modern weapon system there will be plenty of them laying around on the ground. 😉

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          “And if it comes to pass that I need some kind of modern weapon system there will be plenty of them laying around on the ground. 😉”
          No doubt mostly from our vast army of Xbox heroes who didn’t realize that it’s “really hard” when someone actually shoots back with REAL bullets… I’ve got an older night vision scope with built in infrared (Iphone not required) works well to about 250 yards, don’t need any more than that (I hang it on my modified 1916 Gerwher 98 (aka Mauser) 8 mm in a modern stock w/15 round detachable mag… It really doesn’t suck to get old unless you actually get OLD… Age is a number, OLD is a state of mind….

        3. avatar Leslie says:

          I have a 25-round mag on mine…

        4. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Where did you get a 25 I’d like to have couple myself.. 10 round came with the stock, found the 15s later…

        5. avatar Leslie says:

          Sarco, Inc! Currently out of stock, but 20-round Mauser Trench Magazine is available for $49.95. Part Number MRS167…

      2. avatar jwtaylor says:

        That was a very polite compliment young man. Or whatever pronoun you go by.

  15. avatar Roh-Dog says:

    “Why is the DOJ concerned enough to want to Hoover up all that user data?”
    I see what you did there.
    Bravo.

  16. avatar Chip Bennett says:

    Since when do fishing expeditions constitute specific, reasonable, articulable suspicion of unlawful activity, thereby justifying what is clearly an otherwise unconstitutional violation of constitutionally protected rights against unreasonable searches?

    1. avatar Leslie says:

      And what’s considered “Unreasonable” under the “Patriot Act” these days…

  17. avatar Daniel Silverman says:

    I can see where they might want information, but a proper process should be followed.
    ATF goes to court to get a warrant for international users of the app only.
    Company provides only pertinent data per the request to the ATF.

  18. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    – DoJ is the wrong agency for ntl defense or state terrorism.

    – Investigating internal crimes requires a target, n a suspected act.

    – They ask multiple orgs at once all ths time. Ask the phone companies and ISPs.

    – They already have this, and what would be more on point: the ask is either for the P R (“Pours encourager les autres.” if my H S French is holding up.), or because other agencies aren’t sharing nicely.

  19. avatar Bierce Ambrose says:

    Using gun gear for a fishing expedition.

    1. avatar Leslie says:

      I haven’t heard about any Smart Fishing Poles, unless electronic accessories to Find Fish count…

  20. avatar Rocketman says:

    This is a case that should be going to the Supreme Court pronto.

  21. avatar Dude says:

    Don’t worry guys. Remember just a couple of years ago when Apple made a big deal about not helping the Feds unlock the phone of an ACTUAL TERRORIST? Then Google made a big deal about supporting that decision, like these guys were so concerned with their customers privacy?

    1. avatar Patrick says:

      Having worked in a big tech company’s legal department….. Yes, they do actually care a lot about privacy when it comes to government requests and will push back hard on requests that do not meet the strict constraints of the law.

      There is zero incentive to collaborate with government requests (US or otherwise) because they know this will impact customer trust and therefore their business.

      Dropbox, for example, does a good job being transparent on the requests they receive and how they respond to them: https://www.dropbox.com/transparency

      1. avatar Dude says:

        They care when they aren’t making money from it.

        1. avatar Patrick says:

          They don’t make money spending time and resources responding to warrants and other government paperwork. Making money monetizing you via ads, etc….. well, that’s another matter.

        2. avatar Dude says:

          Exactly. As long as they’re making money from your personal information, they don’t give a flying flip about your privacy. That doesn’t stop them from virtue signaling as if they do care about your privacy.

      2. avatar Jim Bullock says:

        Well, having worked in a couple diverse customer-facing infotech companies…

        They are meticulous about the CYA protocols around alwasy fulfilling the “requests” they get, and pronto. Just a cost of doing business, and “feed them stuff” is a literal budget line item.

        The thing is, the people who “ask nice” somehow are always associated with folks who regulate you, or can accuse you of crime. Just a normal inspection … the third this month, but you know, coincidence. Like, I dont’ know, raiding a guitar factory about materials The Country Of Origin Doesn’t Count as Violation, somehow just after the CEO went public with opinions contrary from the Overlords’ grand issue of the moment.

        The Process Is The Punishment; Never Run from Something Immortal: It Attracts their Attention.

        Somehting the true believer naifs never get or admit: any protocol you put in place *will* be hijacked for nefarious purposes. For example, eve if Net Neutrality in the idealized abstract may be a good thing (For the sake of argument…) *in use* it6’ll be a bludgeon on People. We Don’t Like. Similarly “harassment”, “hate speech”, and of course “terms of service enforcement.”

        It’s bizzarrely inconsistent, to the point of mental illness. People who argue that “Lawful gun ownership has these other down-sides from abuse of the prerogative.” are fine arguing at the same time that “Gun restriciton protocols won’t have any down sides from their abuse: no, the crazy ex-girlfriend argument is nonsense.”

        Fishing expeditions in mass collected internal citizens’ communications may or may not have had a direct effect on the last presidential election. The data was sought. And our Intelligence “leadership” said it wasn’t collected until they got caught. The same guys who were fishing around Congress’ communications. Because having dossiers to blackmail or bribe (Say with island parties pre-stocked with nubile model wanna-be’s, just to invent a hypothetical.) isn’t a thing … never happens.

        1. avatar Bierce Ambrose says:

          I, myself, am willng to provide digitally signed, watermarked video of myself dancing to 70’s disco, wearing only chaps and a sequined jock strap … n dare them to try to blackmail me with something worse.

          The resignations and stress disorders among the people forced to screen this is just a side benefit.

          You wanna go there? I have less shame than you can imagine; less shame than you *can* imagine.

  22. avatar bryan1980 says:

    Another reason to own as few “smart” devices as possible. I have to admit that I was interested in getting one of those Ring doorbells, or even one of the electronic door locks, but just can’t overcome the hacking concern.

    I’m more curious to see if/when Google and Apple give them what they want. I bet they would have immediately handed it over to the Obummer DOJ, but I think they’ll drag their heels for the Trump DOJ. Or maybe not, because gunz r bad!

  23. avatar A Random Human says:

    Learn to shoot your gun the old fashion way instead of relying on apps to do the math for you. Then you won’t have to worry about the government tracking you and putting you on a red flag list.

    People are too quick to give up all their private info to everyone, which will be stored in databases that the government will access eventually. It’s much easier now for the government to compile “threat assessment” dossiers of each American because they are given the data that corporations are allowed to collect and save forever.

    Texas’ governor signed 8 executive orders to increase the surveillance of Texans to create threat assessments dossiers on them and jail them before they do anything bad. They are creating teams/squads to integrate with the federal government and social media corporations. They want to “monitor” the internet for white nationalists and other threats that will lead to “domestic terrorism.”

    https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-greg-abbott-issues-eight-executive-orders-in-response-to-el-paso-and-odessa-shootings

    I heard the FBI is watching this site and is possibly instigating in the comments section or at least hired a group to do that (for legal reasons). Maybe now Texas’ DPS will be monitoring this site too. If TTAG saves IPs they can be compelled to give them up to the government…

    They are already red flagging people that posts memes and make extreme public political statements. San Francisco has now designated NRA members as domestic terrorists, which is likely a move to allow lawful action against gun owners who join the NRA.

    1. avatar UpInArms says:

      ” San Francisco has now designated NRA members as domestic terrorists, which is likely a move to allow lawful action against gun owners who join the NRA ”

      I’d say it’s more likely a kick-back after Trump made some noise about list ANTIFA as a terrorist group. Just a lot of virtue signalling. But… not a terribly smart move. Don’t be surprised if the NRA or some NRA members on their own file lawsuits seeking damages, not just against San Francisco, but naming the Supervisors that voted for it as co-defendants.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        ” San Francisco has now designated NRA members as domestic terrorists,…”

        Guess that makes NRA members eligible for gun confiscation under red flag TROs: members of NRA are terrorists.

        Wonder if anyone thought about spreading that nationwide?

  24. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    If they are looking for foreign users they are correct. We don’t need our troops confronting such an implement. And people arguing about are internationally dense. I would bet that at least 25% of said users are international.

  25. avatar GS650G says:

    Wait until they ask for location data near gun shows or even ranges. For the children of course. Match that up with financial data and purchase records. Pair all that with web activity and dip into email and chat sessions too.

    Software can aggregate the data into results searchable and decide which doors to boot.

    It’s coming. If we get a Democrat next year in the WH it’s going to happen faster.

    1. avatar A Random Human says:

      It’s here.

      https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fe943e551236e0e62ee0843d5803781e

      The FBI and DoJ are coming… They want your guns. They’re building threat assessments that will allow them to take your 2nd and 1st Amendment protections away.

      The FBI has been monitoring and instigating “white nationalism” on right wing sites/pages to get people (mostly white males) to say things they could be red flagged for. That’s their main “domestic” focus.

      I heard people are being hired to take positions where they can provocateur white nationalism/supremacy on the internet.

  26. avatar former water walker says:

    Golly all I got is a lowly TruGlo RedDot on my rifle(which works great). And a mounted light…1984 is here😫

  27. avatar Sam I Am says:

    Where is the “probable cause”? Someone, somewhere, who obtained a product might be committing a crime, but we don’t have any real evidence that a crime has been committed. However, we have to do something, so we want to sift through legal transactions and communications to find out if someone unknown is doing something illegal.

    Did I get that about right?

    DoJ remains as corrupt as it was during the attempt to sabotage Trump.

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      Probably cause to them is buying a gun.

      1. avatar Sobe says:

        Probable cause in this case has nothing to do with guns. Downloading an app was their “probable cause.”

  28. avatar Nelson says:

    If ATN dildofucks govt terrorists? FUCK THEM.

    1. avatar Nelson says:

      As for Google & Apple?? They’re ANTI-gun ANTI-American Tech TERRORISTS. DOUBLE FUCK THEM, before and after Govt-‘compliance’ dildofuckery.

  29. avatar Nelson says:

    To all gunnies: mind you, this is the TRUMP regime doing it. NO MORE fucking excuses. It’s HIS DoJ now. Either the buck stops with the bumpfire banning “take the guns 1st due process later” govt terrorist motherfucker, or doesn’t.

    He can whine about the Deep State all he wants: it’s HIS fault that he didn’t purge the Bush-Clinton-Obama era stay-behind-networks and bureaucrats. Even fucking Carter purged 1000s of assholes in govt. Trump has ZERO excuse: he’s the reason why the Deep State still remains; he literally kept every single asshole who are actively trying to take his admin down, from within.

    Either he’s an incompetent moron, or a Machiavellian asshole. Either way, it’s not good. And certainly: he is NOT “the most pro-gun POTUS in history”-blah di fuckety blah.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “To all gunnies: mind you, this is the TRUMP regime doing it. ”

      Nope. This is the same deep state bunch of leftists who launched a failed coup on Trump. The only thing you can attribute to Trump is that he hasn’t immediately body slammed whoever is behind this, and put the fear of wrath into the DOJ. The AG is first to be blamed for allowing this, or not squashing it before it could get a foothold.

      (NOTE: I do not believe Trump ever was, nor will become, a 2A activist)

      1. avatar A Random Human says:

        Trump hired these people and wants even worse people to work for him. He wanted the current AG and he got him.

        Trump was famous for “You’re fired!” Now he hires the same Bush-Clinton-Obama crime family instead of firing them. They only leave when they quit or Trump fires them for not being loyal to him.

        This has been going on for years now. It’s not like it was a few people that slipped in under the radar. Trump is the one that wants gun control, rapid due process and to arrest dangerous white nationalists/supremacists and give them the death penalty. He is getting what he wants.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Trump hired these people and wants even worse people to work for him. He wanted the current AG and he got him.”

          Nope. Trump hired only several “top” positions. He did not hire the deep state. His pick or Wray to head FBI was weird, but never underestimate the ability of opponents to seed an organization with people determined to undermine it. Barr was sorta OK, on some issues.

          Note, I did call Trump and Barr to account for not stopping this immediately they learned of it.

        2. avatar Leslie says:

          Has Trump FIRED any of them yet as of the Posting by the DoJ. IF not it’s doubtful that he will…

    2. avatar Leslie says:

      And yet His DoJ is trying to get information history of how you spend your time expressing your Gun Rights through iOS devices or OS devices. As a point of fact, the ATN Obsidian operates under OS, but can transmit in iOS by special App. Most Laptop Computers are also OS. Food for thought…

  30. avatar strych9 says:

    Guns and fishing… are the fish in, perhaps, a barrel?

  31. avatar Pa John says:

    The full text of the 4th amendment reads thusly:
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      Unreasonable search is what a judge says it is. The days of narrow reading of the constitution are long gone. Every provision may be compromised by judicial order.

      Given the statements in the article, ” …hand over names, phone numbers and other identifying data of at least 10,000 users of a single gun scope app,…”

      Since those entities are known, and are knowable, the specific persons test is met. Phone numbers of the entites are specifically requested, “Identifying data” is pretty specific. The proximate nexus between persons and items (ATN Obsidian) makes clear the warrant is not for a general search of an unidentified, unknown, unlimited range of application of the warrant.

      You gotta keep up with lawfare rules, these days.

    2. avatar UpInArms says:

      ” unreasonable searches and seizures ”

      It’s that word “unreasonable” that’s the sticking point. The 4th doesn’t say anything at all about what is reasonable and what is unreasonable, so it’s up to the whim of the judge who signs the warrant.

  32. avatar Alan says:

    Respecting the referenced DOJ “demands”, absent a valid court order, it strikes me that the proper response would be a polite suggestion directing DOJ to perform “an unnatural act upon itself”. As for this ITAR business, who dreamed that up?

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “As for this ITAR business, why dreamed that up?”

      There has to be a pretext. Sending a regulated item through the mail, or delivery service is “exporting”. “Exporting” controlled technology in violation of ITAR is federal territory. “Exporting” to potential enemies of the US is federal territory.

  33. avatar Joe says:

    This is a test. Use some obscur regulation and some obscur charge to seek warrants forcing companies to hand over names of owners… and BINGO instant database of 10,000 gun owners. First obsidian. Then Nikon and other optics makers apps, then ballistic drop calculators from all stores. Then there will be some outrageous claim made to a sympathetic leftist judge to obtain names of users on websites like this…..

    1. avatar Leslie says:

      9TO5Mac dated September 6th, 2019 @ 1:37PT.

      “DOJ asks Apple and Google for personal details of gun scope app users.”

      ( https://9to5mac.com/2019/09/06/doj-requests-gun-scope-user-details-apple-google/ )

  34. avatar SpadeTrump says:

    YES!!!!! I HOPE THIS NEWS SCARES PEOPLE AND THE PRICE DROPS ON THESE SCOPES!

    I have wanted one for a long time. hopefully they get down to $299! YES!!!

  35. avatar Joe Biden says:

    I want the photos on every high school girl’s iPhone, in case she’s promoting terrorism in the locker room!

  36. avatar kap says:

    These orders from Der Fuhrer want to Be’s are an usurpation of the Constitution, starting place for the Coming illegal gun ban blessed by the Crazy Democrats and the Jihadist women of Minnesota and Michigan, next you will have to sing praises to Allah or become headless.

  37. avatar Unkajed says:

    Pehaps the goverment is afraid a citizen will hack into this scope on a government agency gun.

    Then persons would see what the scope sees… On a government snipers gun?

    1. avatar Leslie says:

      Or the US Government already has a Group of Suspicious Suspects already equipped with the ATN Obsidian that their trying to keep track of. If you can’t Hack to suspect, Hack their firearms and/or electronic gun accessories…

      1. avatar Unkajed says:

        Thinking outside the box are we?

        1. avatar Leslie says:

          If you can’t Flip Someone to Spy for you, do the next best thing. Hack their electronics instead. “AIRcable” is a Bluetooth booster which can transmit and detect a Bluetooth signal up to 45 miles away. Even some watches transmit using passive Bluetooth…

  38. avatar Zalez says:

    America rushes to find out who has feared Obsidian 4 sniper tool before it’s used to assassinate President Donald Trump
    http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index2976.htm

    President Donald Trump ordered the Navy Special Warfare Command to immediately fire three of their top US Navy SEAL commanders yesterday—most particularly because these US Navy SEAL commanders were implicated in the plot to smuggle into the United States radical Islamic snipers to assassinate Trump—a plot that included these US Navy SEAL commanders providing to these radical Islamic snipers a computer application named Obsidian 4 made by a secretive Silicon Valley company named American Technologies Network (ATN)—is an application used to control rifle scopes and allows snipers to get a live stream, take video and calibrate their gun scopes from either an Android or iPhone device—has led to an unprecedented court case filed by the United States Department of Justice against Silicon Valley tech giants Apple and Google demanding that they turn over all information about everyone who downloaded this application—and which a US Federal Court has historically upheld in a never before seen ruling ordering both Apple and Google to immediately comply.

    1. avatar Pa John says:

      So a quick look at the link you provided shows the article is by a “Sorcha Faal”. A quick search for Sorcha Faal shows this:
      Sorcha Faal… Internet Hoax Queen Courtesy of One David Booth
      https://educate-yourself.org/cn/sorchafaaldisinfo15mar08.shtml

      I know this is true because I looked it up using commonly available internet technology, while sitting between Elvis and Bigfoot on their UFO. They said “hi!”.

  39. avatar BusyBeef says:

    Your personal information isn’t your own. If you’re dumb enough to give ti away, you deserve what’s coming.

    Big Brother is watching.

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