“An attempted car theft in a quiet neighborhood Tuesday morning turned into a Wild West shootout when an off-duty River Rouge police officer exchanged gunfire with two groups of robbers,” detroitnews.com reports jumping the metaphorical shark with their over-used, poorly chosen, Hollywood-based metaphor. “The off-duty officer, a sergeant with the River Rouge Police Department, received a call from a neighbor that several men were attempting to steal the officer’s vehicle . . . The officer armed himself, grabbed his police identification and went out to investigate . . .
The officer, whose name hasn’t been released, found his vehicle three blocks away and confronted three men who were stripping it. He arrested one while the other two fled the scene.
“A few minutes later, the pair, now armed with guns, returned in a vehicle and demanded the release of their accomplice,” [Sgt. Mike Woody of the Detroit Police Department] said. “After an argument, one of the suspects pointed a gun at the sergeant. The officer opened fire and the gunfight was on from there.”
“The situation grew even more dangerous when a second vehicle pulled up and engaged in the gunfight as well.
“They were working in teams apparently,” Woody said. “The sergeant was fighting off two cars. During the exchange, the arrested subjected jumped into one of the vehicles and they all fled the scene.”
According to Woody, the River Rouge officer was not injured in the exchange and it is unknown if any of the suspects were wounded.
If you live in New York, where the SAFE Act forbids gun owners from owning “high-capacity” magazines or, indeed, loading more than seven rounds in a magazine, this has got to be worrying. On the positive side, the NY AG’s recently released field guide to the SAFE Act tells officers they can’t inspect a magazine to check for the number of cartridges loaded without probable cause. Whew!
The rest of us would be well advised to carry a gun with greater rather than fewer bullets. And a spare mag. As TTAG reader Dirk Diggler does when he hits his hometown, sensibly enough.
The justice department once did a study and found that there are so many laws that each every one of us here in the USA breaks a law every 5min.
There are more than enough laws, we do not need any more of them especially these stupid ones like the SAFE Act.
The issue is these law makers have to make believe they are doing something and the only way they see to do that is to make more stupid laws and ultimately waste more money.
We have then a stupid population who believes that more stupid laws on top of already stupid laws somehow protects them. In reality, all these laws do is give the right corrupt politician, law enforcement officer or courts unlimited leverage against you such they can put you away for any reason because of some stupid law.
If the government wants to improve the background check system, they should do 2 things:
1) Allow any small gun dealer to get an FFL without having a storefront. Currently, thanks to the Clinton administration’s effort to reduce the supply of guns, you can’t get an FFL if you want to sell guns only at gun shows (Google for question 18a of ATF form 5310 FFL application). As a result someone that wants to sell guns but can’t afford the inventory costs, zoning challenges and overhead of a storefront has to sell illegally or discretely at the edge of the law as a “private individual” and hence can’t run a background check. Rather than throwing these “kitchen table” sellers out of the system like Clinton did hoping they would go away, they should allow them to get an FFL and subject them to BATF rules, audits and oversight like they were before the Clinton administration let political anti-gun ideology get in the way.
2) Give anyone free, public, anonymous online access to the NICS database. I don’t understand why a federal database of people prohibited from owning firearms can’t be available in the public domain like databases for sex offenders. The NICS system is really a go/no go process and no useful information has to be displayed to facilitate phishing expeditions for identity theft other than what was already known by the user making the query. It’s certainly no more revealing than the FAA’s pilot license query system, which provides more detailed information on people who are most likely law-abiding citizens. Once this system is implemented, you then tell private sellers if you sell or give a firearm to someone and don’t retain a piece of paper that says you did a favorable NICS check on the buyer, you could be held liable if they commit a gun-related crime. This would effectively close the so-called private sale loophole and still preserve the anonymity of the parties involved the same way the current background check system does now. If a private sale firearm shows up at a crime scene, the ATF follows their current procedure of using the model and serial number of the firearm to ultimately contact the last FFL that sold the firearm to a private citizen to obtain that citizen’s name and address from the ATF form 4473 the FFL is required to keep on file. That citizen is then contacted and produces the piece of paper from the NICS background check that identifies the second private citizen who is then contacted, and so forth.
The real benefit of this proposal is how it can help identify the illusive killer with questionable behavior patterns or mental health issues that is causing so many problems. As it stands now there is no easy, fast, non-bureaucratic method for someone to determine if a suspicious person (neighbor, employee, student, etc) is a potential threat to society. If someone thinks an individual could be a threat, a query to a public NICS database would at least tell him or her in a few seconds if the individual could obtain a firearm. Then, armed with that information the appropriate authorities could be notified and they could decide if it was a mistake or whether to investigate further. As it stands now, if you tell authorities you know a suspicious person they will probably ignore you, but if you tell them you know such a person and by the way according to the NICS database he can buy a firearm, they will probably be more inclined to investigate rather than risk embarrassment later if the worst happens. The same would be true if you see a suspicious person with a firearm when the NICS query says he’s prohibited from having one. It would also help provide piece of mind and a method for victims of violent crimes to ensure their assailants either on parole or still at large have not been excluded from the database because of some bureaucratic foul-up.
While I was stationed at Lowry AFB, Colorado in the ’80s, there was a firing range called the Firing Line near Aurora Mall (not too far from the theater that a$$hole shot up). You could rent full-auto weapons there, and I fired the M1A1 Thompson, Uzi, H&H MP-5SD, and Mac 10, all full auto. The Thompson was the best!
A few years later, my girlfriend at the time gave me a gift certificate for that range, and time with the Thompson, again. Never should have let her get away!
We have all heard the anecdote about the TX Ranger who was asked if he as carrying his sidearm because he expected trouble and he retorts no that if he was expecting trouble he would have his rifle. If one is so inclined as to chase thieves from the scene of the crime I would say you should expect trouble and arm yourself accordingly.
In this case I would observe that perhaps the officer should have exercised the same thought process before leaving his house. Note this is an observation rather than a criticism. When you gotta go you go with what you have… just one more reason to make sure what you have meets the needs of the moment.
Good points, but he perhaps be didn’t have an AR with several 30 round mags or a Mossberg 930 with buckshot and slugs ready to go. Not that *I* have that stuff, mind you, but he might not have.
Ha what kind of crazy people would we be if we staged weapons ready to be used in defense of ourselves and our castle? 😀
Crazy smart!
Be prepared; there is no time machine when TSHTF.
It was a slow news day. . . . . Don’t worry – they will find something to latch on to tomorrow when the former mayor (Kwame Kilpatrick) is sentenced. . . . .
And not all of Detroit is bad. But, like any major city, there clearly are parts I wouldn’t go to without armed escort. . . . .
Anyhow – I always carry one spare mag but when I go home, I carry two or more. Just saying . . . . .
I’m not sure where the billet terminology comes from. Actually, as a metallurgical engineer, to me the term “bar stock” implies a higher degree of reduction than does “billet”, something that should impart better mechanical properties.
It was a reference to a conversation that’s gone on here before about all the companies that say they make things out of “billet aluminum” because that sounds cool/technical/tactical, when they’re really using bar stock (but that doesn’t sound nearly as cool). Most facilities don’t have the facilities to use full-sized billets, since the smallest ones Alcoa distributes are cylinders 6″ in diameter x 18″ long. Not to mention all the waste that would come from machining square parts from cylindrical stock.
20 rounds in my XDM at all times.
Here is a link to the ‘field guide’ http://www.scribd.com/doc/174564412/NYS-Police-Guide-1
Interesting read, and according to the document probable cause must exist before checking mags for round count. In NY we aren’t ‘required’ to disclose the fact we are carrying during a traffic stop anyway, but it would be interesting to see how this plays out.
Judging by my relatively rural area and the attitudes of the local LEOs. they aren’t big fans of chairman cuomo’s work.
It would seem to me, that men usually don’t need guns to abuse or kill wemen. Size alone is enough. Women need guns to equalize the fight.
That’s just crazy talk. Everyone knows that women can defeat any rapist by peeing themselves.
I am just about sick and tired of hearing about MILFs Demand Action. These ladies need to think about the logic in their position. Reminds me of a Facebook post I saw a couple weeks ago regarding donations of old cell phones to help survivors of DV. It even has a sign referring to empowering women. How about “empowering” them with the ability to smoke the douchebag hurting them?
Men who want to harm women don’t generally need guns to do so.
Wow! It’s a good thing Mexico has such strict gun laws (only ONE legal gun store in the whole country, located in Mexico city and run by the Army). Otherwise it would be a very violent country with 50,000 murders per year.
Oh, wait …
Enjoying the hell out of these ‘retro-reviews’. Especially seeing Great War arms in full-color action. Integrating Forgotten Weapons is a stellar idea as well.
Please keep ’em both coming.
mmmmgh
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/data-s-s.gif
So DV month is the same as BCA month? Ya know, when was the last time we had a Testicular Cancer Awareness month? Did you know 100% of all testicular cancer sufferers are male? Where’s the outcry, the indignation of this horrible disease? And where is the public support for cancer research and awareness?
Women’s needs (and desires) always come first in the “progressive” America.
May God have mercy on a man’s soul if he misses one child support payment, yet there is no penalty whatsoever for a woman who makes herself pregnant without the man’s consent (lying about being on birth control, using the product of oral sex or a used condom to impregnate herself)
“Some are more equal than others,” I guess…
There are several things about this story that are very disturbing. First, there wasn’t one thief who stole the car and drove it to a chop shop , rather there were three and they just drove it a few blocks away and were stripping it in view of the whole wide world. And then–or perhaps it was just a phone call for back up–another car full of punks arrives and assists in taking an arrestee out of police custody. Unbelievable. These guys have no fear.
Arguably not the best SAW/LMG of its time, but a pretty awesome gun nonetheless.
God bless JMB!
The 1911 has to be there somewhere.
If the SAFE Act isn’t fully enforced, it’s because the State doesn’t want any more litigation about it right now.
Civil rights (2A) lawyers are bringing the cases now. They’re pretty good lawyers. But once the arrests happen, it’s the criminal defense bar that gets involved. Having practiced in New York for decades, I can tell you that the bar is top-notch and some of those lawyers are phenomenal.
Keeping the criminal defense bar out of the picture for as long as possible is a great tactic by Gov. Mussolini and his minions.
This is in order from most to least:
M1911: every good guy carries one, from John Wayne to Magnum PI
MP40: every Nazi and wannabe Nazi carries one
Thompson Gun: enough said
Mauser rifles: this includes the M1903
Webley revolver: from Zulu to WW1 to WW2 and beyond, every British officer in a movie carries a Webley whether realistic or not
I always carry 1 spare magazine. I think I want to get a dual mag carrier for my CW45…
Iconic AND influential:
1911
Glock
AK47
M16
Mauser G98
My focus group of regular folks revealed that nobody could identify a Glock. Cowboy Six shooter, Tommy Gun, Vietnam Gun, and Terrorist Gun were the top 4. And coming in at #5 – the double barreled shotgun; great for weddings and getting your daughter back home on time.
AK Pattern Rifles
Colt Single Action
Smith and Wesson J-Frame Snub Nose
Thompson
M41A 10mm Pulse Rifle
The gunner in the top pic [after the jump] on the heavy weapon needs a cigar clenched in the corner of her mouth to complete my fantasy. Had the US army used similar photos back in the mid 1970’s, I just might have reconsidered my career choice.
Someone call Burt Gummer.
Ain’t skirt…
(posted with Tapatalk 4 from deep in the bowels of an MRAP)
So, Ruger, with it’s idiotic “no modifications” policy wants to to void your WARRANTY, AND WHEN YOU SEND IT TO THEM FOR REPAIR, THEY RESTORE IT TO FACTORY STOCK AND BILL YOU FOR IT?
Don’t believe? Send them a rifle with a barrel shortened to a totally legal length for say, a broken firing pin. They will force a new barrel on you before they put the in in. And if you are a mini-14 owner, this is the ONLY way you are going to get a firing pin replaced, because they use different bolts to head-space the gun. They won’t even let gunsmiths have factory firing pins.
Send your 10-22 in with an aftermarket trigger group? You will lose it.
Schultz has always been a gun owner, and he’s got a nice day job. So while I feel off-air he probably likes his guns, he’s going to bend somewhat to those that sign his paycheck. He was an avid hunter until they told him to tone that down. Dishonest? Hell yes, but that’s showbiz.
He has in the past “been against the awb before he was for it before he was against it.”
As far as I know , he used to be a conservative.
Talk radio and talking heads. Meh. On both sides. These shows are meant for people to yell “Yeah that’s right!” at the tv or radio to people and opinions they already agree with. He actually went out on a limb for not Declaring the Gun as Evil. Scandal!
Iconic guns…that anyone would recognize, not just people of the gun, and name it correctly. Or even better, has a nickname. A well known name, or iconic nickname, makes it stick with the public. It’s a double edge sword though…sometimes the name gets mis-applied. Kinda why any small blocky submachine gun is an Uzi, even if it’s a Mac-10. Uzi is a known name. Glock suffers from being the first polymer pistol that got a lot of attention…and like the Uzi (and how every tissue is a Kleenex) a ton of people refer to ANY modern poly-pistol as a Glock because…uh, they all look the same, right? They kinda do in the hands of actors flashing them around on screen. Shame…Uzi, Glock…sometimes even the Luger. If a Nazi is holding it, it’s a Luger, even when it’s a P38. Luger is just a better known name!
So, my opinion on the top five iconic guns would be:
1: Thompson submachine gun (Tommy Gun)
2: Colt SAA (Peacemaker)
3: Colt 1911 (“45”)
4: AK-47 (…AK-47 c.c )
5: Winchester 1873/1894 (Any lever gun in a cowboy flick is “A Winchester” and they’re probably right)
All of these have nicknames and recognizable shapes. Others might be really significant to the Armed Intelligentsia, but if you were watching a movie with someone who doesn’t pay that much attention to guns, and it’s a war movie, and there’s these action shots of a M2 .50 or an old Maxim firing…it doesn’t matter. If it’s BIG and on a tripod/back of a Jeep it’s just “a machine gun”. But anyone who sees a Thompson can call it a “Tommy Gun”. That’s iconic!
Now, if you asked (thanks for asking) about which guns I think are most iconic to ME, based on my own proprietary measurement system…
1: Colt 1892: First popular/mass produced DA/SA revolver with a swing out cylinder, so “modern revolver”.
2: Colt 1911: First popular/mass produced semi-auto (with a design that endured…the Luger’s toggle lock might’ve been awful cool, but the Browning tilt/lock is still here in many forms).
3: M1 Garand: Wins because GARAND. If only 30-06 wasn’t so #$&% expensive…
4: Lee-Enfield Rifle No. 4: Took everything good about the SMLE No. 1 Mk III and made it stronger and cheaper. I know the Mauser is a great bolt action but the Enfield’s action is just nicer to shoot. The No 1 Mk III gets bonus points for that “all wood for miles” look, too. Doubles as a club when needed.
5: AK-47 (and all AK patterned derivatives): Simple, works virtually all the time, cheap from a mass production standpoint. Not the elegant first world alloy and plastic rifle we came up with, but boy howdy are there a billion of them out there and used by anyone who has at least one hand and three fingers.
Honorable mention: Winchester 1912. First popular, internal hammer, pump action 12 gauge shotgun produced in large numbers. So happy 101st birthday to the modern mass produced pump action!
I agree with ST. If she votes liberal, she’s voting for disarmament. Name a liberal candidate is isn’t for gun control. That’s a challenge. The two are linked and unfortunately there may be liberal shooters out there, but their good intentions, rooted in communist doctrine eventually call for civilian disarmament. Ask the girlfriend how gun ownership works in China, or Vietnam, or Cuba, or Venezuela. Now ask her how great the human rights record is in those countries. Ask her how equal rights for women works in those workers’ paradises.
I am glad she enjoys shooting but if she doesn’t understand the basic flaws in communism and liberalism, she is working for your, and our eventual disarmament. It is my greatest hope that shooting will open new doors for her, new points of view and allow her to see the danger inherent in communism and liberalism.