“Walter James Palmer, a dentist from Minnesota, is believed to have paid £35,000 to shoot and kill the much-loved lion with a bow and arrow,” telegraph.co.uk reports. “The animal was shot on July 1 in Hwange National Park. Two independent sources have confirmed the hunter’s identity to the paper, which has also seen a copy of the relevant hunting permit.” Note: shot with a rifle after 40 hours of post-bow shot chasing. The real problem . . .
a professional guide in Mr. Palmer’s party lured “Cecil” [above] out of the park, where he was protected from predation. The guide has been fired – and then some. The Huffington Post reports that
The Facebook page for the Zimbabwe Professional Hunters and Guides Association posted a statement noting the hunter who led the campaign against Cecil was a member of its group, and has since been suspended indefinitely. The hunter, identified as Theo Bronkhorst, was placed under arrest earlier this month after reporting the “mistake,” along with the landowner of the hunting area. Both are due in court on Aug. 6 for poaching charges.
Even before the guide or Mr. Palmer was ID’ed – by the Zimbabwean government in a Tweet no less – the story went viral, triggering virulent anti-hunting fever. When Palmer’s name emerged, and reports revealed that this wasn’t the first time Mr. Palmer’s hunting efforts were locationally challenged, sh!t got real for the dentist.
The comments underneath the various posts on the kill are what you might call highly critical (e.g., “he’s a sociopathic monster just like mass murders pedophiles rapists”). Twitter blew up with vituperation and death threats (e.g., “when does hunting season start on Walter Palmer?”). Palmer’s dental practice is closed, his phone lines disconnected. The Yelp page for his practice ain’t that pretty at all . . .
I would like to cancel my second appointment with Dr. Palmer but it seems that his office number has been disconnected. My first appointment went well and I have no complaints, but I heard a rumor, one that I certainly hope isn’t true.
This rumor is about Dr. Palmers license to practice as a dentist in the state of Minnesota. It seems, according to rumor, that the Dr. routinely travels across state lines into North Dakota where he is NOT licensed to practice dentistry to lure children back across the state line where he can legally remove their healthy teeth to use as ammunition to kill endangered species all over the globe. Isn’t that a crazy rumor?
By cancelling my appointment, I can then take the money that I save on gas and donate it to an animal rescue in my area. I’m sure that the rescue organization will be very glad to know where the money came from.
I hope that the downward spiral into poverty is a swift one for you, Walter Palmer, and I hope that your wife has the forethought to take your children as far away from you as possible so that they aren’t drug down with you. And I REALLY hope, Dr. Palmer, That you die in poverty under the bridge that you call home after having every tooth in your head rot out.
Yes, a toothless, homeless, lonely ex-dentist who’s come to the realization that he’s made huge misjudgements by believing that he is GOD.
Just in case Palmer’s critics want to take things to the next level, the Telegraph — a paper in a country where anti-hunting fervor has led to a outright ban — published pictures of Mr. Palmer, his office and his home. Trying to stem the tide of bile, Palmer released this statement:
In early July, I was in Zimbabwe on a bow hunting trip for big game. I hired several professional guides and they secured all proper permits. To my knowledge, everything about this trip was legal and properly handled and conducted.
I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favorite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt. I relied on the expertise of my local professional guides to ensure a legal hunt.
I have not been contacted by authorities in Zimbabwe or in the U.S. about this situation, but will assist them in any inquiries they may have.
Again, I deeply regret that my pursuit of an activity I love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the taking of this lion.
Somehow I don’t think that’s going to placate anti-hunting hatred. But then, what could? Palmer’s life is in ruins, no one’s making the case for hunting and Zimbabwe government officials will no doubt continue to feather their nests with the money paid by foreign hunters – despite a petition demanding “justice” for Cecil (no more hunting permits in Zim) that’s garnered 325k signatures and counting. And so it goes.
Public shaming of people who aren’t with the program. What’s new?
Yeah that’s bad. The population doesn’t care that we’re peddling aborted fetuses body parts to the highest bidder, but shoot a lion and all hell breaks loose.
Yep. Good analogy, tip of the iceberg.
Don’t say “we’re” like it’s “we.” Planned Parenthood does that, it’s highly praised by the Evil house of (D) it’s a plank in the party’s platform (OBama said God Bless Planned Parenthood in a 2014 speech, Hillary takes money from it).
Planned Parenthood HAS TO sell the body parts to “cover its costs” because it can’t get the job done with MILLIONS OF DOLLARS given to it by the Federal government that it obtained from the Tobacco Industry because cigarettes ‘kill’ “people.” This in addition to an annual budgeted amount from the Federal Government.
If you ‘live’ in a blue state, you may be part of the problem. If you have a (D) after your name, are a liberal or a rino, the problem is PART-OF-YOU, you are permanently damaged, and your mother (one of your five fathers that wears the dress more often) owes us an abortion.
Blue state, red state….seriously?
Ya, red state, blue state, this blog is TTAG (The Truth About Guns) and the “Truth About Guns” is that we have to defend them from liberal (D) bags everywhere, but mostly clumping in small urban areas of blue states. MN is a strangubation-blue state, not sure of the ilk of the Dentist, but, the push-back is on hunting, tangentially to firearms, tangentially to everyone else here whose “Truth About Guns” is that they like them.
Most every problem that we discuss here [not related directly to safety, or foreign issues are powers] are brought to you by blue state (D) heads.
Joe R. you hit it right in the bullseye!
Widen your gaze, friend. Not everything in the world is a problem because of democratic politicians and the votes they receive. That argument requires as much intellect as does “guns hurt people and they need to be banned!”
Is there a strong correlation between the two? Yeah, but dig a little deeper into the issues at hand.
Joe, if you still think there’s a difference between the 2 parties, and that they act independently without being controlled by the same outside group….not sure what to say.
If you are offended enough by my repetition, be apprised enough about what I’ve said, and am saying.
If what we have here in America falls apart, it will be Conservatives, and Conservatism that puts it all, or enables it all, to go back together. [loosely paraphrased, TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012]. Yes there are rino’s and liberal-leaning republicans, but the platform and party is centered on Conservatism, and as soon as they move fully off of it, (and for the Members who already have) I’ll sadly lump the red in too, and I will work to change my state’s ‘color’ to wherever Conservatism has chased such a-holes from its flag.
Democrats (D) have always been what they are, and it has been essentially liberal (not libertarian, except in they way the libs hope it will foster the crumbling of conservative moral values).
There are two things that have not change since they’ve been invented, and will not change in any fathomable multiple of generations that you can think of. Those are Physics, and Human Nature. Throw human experience through that sieve as many times as you would like, and you will get essentially the same answer. Stack the pieces up, trim the edges that remain incongruous, and what remains are the mores, norms, ethics, and principals that sustain us humans on this rock that we travel the universe on (and whatever one we manage to step off on to). History has already weighed in, you can find a general example of the failure and the Godforsaken ruin that ‘better minds’ attempt to constantly drag us over the really sh_tty and dangerous parts over and over. [TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012] I say FU, wake-up, don’t read another of my posts, read some history, read some military historians and strategists [of any age]. I don’t believe you will draw a different conclusion, but like I’ve said, if that’s not acceptable (if we all get to play like the past doesn’t matter [if you don’t care about the effect on me and mine as we march together into tomorrow]) IF WE ARE GOING TO DO “ANYTHING GOES,” then we might as well do my version, and I can guarantee you won’t like it. [TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012]
I think your straw man got False Equivalency whiplash.
It’s not straw, if you look closely (but I don’t recommend it) you’ll se that it is MARPAT. There’s body armor under there, and a green dude.
If it needs to be (more) directly related to the op. Some liberal (D) tripe is being generated and distributed about you, as somone who owns or otherwise uses or enjoys firearms. You are being warred upon, but not by me. If my posts from now on somewhere included “F the evil house of blue state (D)” I’d never exceed the crap that’s spouted daily by them about you as a POTG.
There is not a NO Hunting outcry but a NO Trophy Hunting outcry…BIG Difference. Anyone who kills a National Icon lion is the ultimate coward and deserves some rough justice. He is a criminal from a previous poaching conviction so his claims of no knowing it was illegal flies out the window. I hope this piece of shit gets raped in an African jail.
Apparently he’s a crappy shot with a bow too. Hunting what amounts to tame lion is questionable in and of its self, but taking 40 hours to track it and finally put it out of it’s misery is obscene.
Btw, before al the flames start, I hunt AND I own semi auto copies of military rifles AND I have a CCW AND I believe in the 2A. But this episode with the lion was very badly thought out and handled.
If that’s Cecil, then I don’t see a collar on him, and certainly not one that I would see at night.
According to one report I read(which I cannot confirm), the guides knew the lion, and easily removed his collar when they lured him out of the park. Then they lured him to food, then spotlighted him, then the dentist took his bad shot with an arrow. Regardless of how you may feel about hunting this was clearly unethical and illegal. This was poaching, not hunting.
The problem is people keep calling it hunting and it wasn’t. Hunting lions isn’t difficult they lay around half the time. What is entertaining is reading that guys Yelp page for his business. He might as well pack up and move to Canada, because he’ll never work here again. Oh and the guy was also busted for an illegal bear hunt and fishing without a license before, so the idea that “he didn’t know” is straight up bs. he also paid close to $130,000 in a sexual harassment lawsuit. This dude is a piece of work and his dirty laundry is getting aired everywhere now.
No flame here, I agree. I hunt and I carry concealed. If I can’t drop an animal in its tracks with a clean head shot, I don’t take the shot. No suffering allowed.
Then you better not bow hunt. Absent an extremely lucky CNS hit, the animal virtually never drops in its’ tracks.
+1000 and well said. My family has a long tradition of subsistence hunting. There were never trophies on the walls of people for whom hunting was an important way of putting food on the table during lean times. My father, who knew real poverty as a young man, always referred to trophy hunters as “junk hunters”.
There’s a certain kind of personality that likes to put the heads of animals on walls of homes and offices. In my experience, they’re usually guys with weak self-images who use the trophies to make themselves feel strong and important. They’re the kind of guys who’ll buy a new Corvette, not because it’s a great car, but because it makes them look good. If they didn’t think other people saw it as something important to own, they wouldn’t drive it. I never met anyone like that I liked. Never met anyone like that I wanted to like.
Or it’s hunters that greatly appreciate and respect the animals that they kill, as well as a reminder of everything that went into taking that particular animal.
While I personally cannot justify the expense of mounting animals that I kill, I certainly enjoy viewing trophy mounts. I have English mounted some of my bigger kills, and I’ve made various things out of the antlers of others for display purposes.
I am proud of the bigger animals that I have taken, and rightfully so. All of them took a tremendous amount of effort and skill on my part. Displaying them allows me to remind myself of a particular hunt. In that regard is it any more abhorrent than a picture?
Very, very poor and, frankly, hackneyed attempt at “psychoanalysis”.
Trophy hunting is demanding, dangerous and challenging.
It’s not about boosting a weak and fragile ego. Most people who engage in trophy hunting do so for the same reason others push themselves to achieve athletic, academic or other physical or intellectual goals.
Liring a tame lion out of its sanctuary and shooting it poorly is challenging?
Killing animals–exotic or not– solely for the “thrill” of killing an animal is disgusting and pathological.
Just sayin’ . . .
“Trophy hunting is demanding, dangerous and challenging.”
He had two guides and at least one vehicle. The only “danger” he was in was not getting what he paid for.
Garrison Hall, when my family, friends and I hunt male Deer and Antelope we look for the largest rack, eat them and hang them on the wall. How exactly would you categorize that? It’s called hunting where I live. If all you do is hunt for food do those of us a favor who hunt for horns AND food and and only kill female deer and Antelope.
“How exactly would you categorize that?”
Obviously, we have a difference in personal taste. You have yours and I have mine. But then I don’t find spending time with the gold-chain set all that enjoyable, either.
Eh, lots of people I know have heads or antlers or some other mount in their home. It’s almost weird not to, and these are people from all walks of life. My mom had her one mule deer buck mounted. We grew up with it in the ranch living room and named it Oscar. Dad’s mulie we named Charlie. He had his one pronghorn mounted too, and we still have that. What’s the big deal?
I agree 100%. Trophy hunters seem mentally ill. You are pretty much killing because you want to kill living things for Fun and can’t get away with murdererinh humans. And enough about you love the beauty of animals soo much that you just have to kill them. I’m sure they’d prefer if you just shot them…with a camera.
“…Apparently he’s a crappy shot with a bow too. Hunting what amounts to tame lion is questionable in and of its self, but taking 40 hours to track it and finally put it out of it’s misery is obscene.
Btw, before al the flames start, I hunt AND I own semi auto copies of military rifles AND I have a CCW AND I believe in the 2A. But this episode with the lion was very badly thought out and handled…”
Right- you’re a gun owner and hunter and all your hunting buddies are as well. and none of you has ever shot an animal that didn’t escape, nor have you ever heard of one getting away from a gun hunter. After all, only trophy hunters who become headlines have “very badly thought out and handled” hunts.
A “tame lion”? Righhhhht, gotchya: it had no claws, no teeth, no speed, was fenced in with no opportunity to get at the shooter, who was most likely closer to it than you’ve ever been to a deer you shot with your rifle.
Makes me proud to have only ethical, thoughtful hunters in the world.
Actually, I do bow hunt and I’m embarrassed to say I have lost animals that I’ve hit. “Cecil” by all accounts wasn’t aggressive to humans infact he would approach tourists frequently and hang out while they snapped pictures.
Either way, if the animal was as dangerous as you imply then a bow was a nearly suicidal and as it turns out totally ineffective method of dispatching the beast and that makes the adrenaline junky Dentist a particularly unethical trophy or game hunter. Judging by his past conquests he liked to take chances… (does a bow seem like a reasonable way of killing a rhino?), his recklessness caught up with him this time. I stand by my statement.
“…Actually, I do bow hunt and I’m embarrassed to say I have lost animals that I’ve hit. “Cecil” by all accounts wasn’t aggressive to humans infact he would approach tourists frequently and hang out while they snapped pictures.
Either way, if the animal was as dangerous as you imply then a bow was a nearly suicidal and as it turns out totally ineffective method of dispatching the beast and that makes the adrenaline junky Dentist a particularly unethical trophy or game hunter. Judging by his past conquests he liked to take chances… (does a bow seem like a reasonable way of killing a rhino?), his recklessness caught up with him this time. I stand by my statement..”
Rigghhht- you’ve lost animals you’ve shot- probably all ferocious white tails with sharp claws and teeth and capable of climbing to your tree stand and eating you for lunch.
Using your claim about the dentist being an unethical trophy hunter because he is an adrenaline junky is ridiculous. Using that kind of logic, every mountain climber, SCUBA diver, race car driver, SEAL, alligator wrestler,and on and on, should be condemned because they like to take chances. If a person wants to use a lion to commit suicide, he’ll certainly have enough time to regret the decision, but please, please do feel free to interfere and tell Mr. Lion he shouldn’t be doing that because it’s bad for his image.
Whether a bow is a “reasonable way to kill a rhino” or not, is probably just as reasonable as a 30-06 ia reasonable to shoot a white tail.
“…Apparently he’s a crappy shot with a bow too…”
Just as a counterpoint to your comment, perhaps you should check Safari Club International for stats on this doctor.
And when you can take any of your rifles and put 9 of 10 rounds into a grapefruit shooting off-hand at a hundred yards, you might have a leg to stand on. When you can do it with a bow as this doctor does, then your comment would be worth something.
The dentist can put 8-10 arrows in a grapefruit at 100yds offhand?
You don’t know a damned thing about a. my abilities with a rifle or b. my abilities as a hunter, bow or otherwise, however we do know that the dentist makes stupid unethical decisions while looking for trophies. Me making a crappy shot on a white tailed deer is in no way equivalent to making a crappy shot on a lion not least because one is over populated and the other classed as vulnerable.
However, judging from your replies to others on TTAG about just about any topic you’re just here to be contrarian, have a nice day.
“… Me making a crappy shot on a white tailed deer is in no way equivalent to making a crappy shot on a lion not least because one is over populated and the other classed as vulnerable…”
Righhht (to keep your buddy Kit happy)… so it’s unethical to wound and lose a lion but it’s ethical to wound and lose a white tail deer… now I understand fully: ethics is defined by the available number of the species.
Gotta love a hypocrite.
Well, this is the only comment JSW hasn’t gone “RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHT” then followed it up with juvenile sarcasm on, so count yourself lucky.
Because in the world we live in it’s murder to kill an animal but kosher to wish for the death of a human being. It was unethical to kill “cecil” in such a fashion. Just as it’s unethical to print the info about the dentist’s address and picture in hopes that some nutter will kill him.
We live in bass ackwards times.
Heck, man, in some parts of California the trees have civil rights. I’m looking at you, Carmel.
Seriously … after a major storm, Carmel is usually the last place to get full power back. You’d think this is odd, given it’s one of the richest areas in the US. But PG&E isn’t allowed to trim trees, let alone and goddess forbid take down diseased and dying ones, to protect the lines. So they almost always lose power, and PG&E always puts them last on the fix list.
Carmel is the only place I’ve been where I could see deer on one side of the road and seals on the other. 17 mile road is one hell of a bike ride. If you survive it.
Spent the night on the beach there once. Absolutely breathtaking. I really don’t care if the mansions and country club are without power. It’s their choice.
Progressivism: two wrongs make a right.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Three Leftists together are always right (in their own minds).
The irony of pseudo-ethical blather coming from a government murderer who advocates the nuclear annihilation of the Iranian people. 🙂
Weak sauce again, brosina. I suggested that the Isreali’s had a nuclear option. You got the vapors, because you’re a dyed in the wool jihadi supporter and went full on attack dog. When you finally get a handle on puberty and learn to deal with your period maybe your tantrums will mellow a little.
And you still haven’t learned the meaning of murder. Sad how little you learn in a public education school. 🙂
Actually what you said was the Israelis should exercise the nuclear option since the “first shot usually wins”. Your psychopathy is clear, broski. Time for a refill on your meds. 🙂
LOL @ period. The eternal cuckold projects once again. Don’t be mad your girl ditched you because you caught syphilis in Vietnam and she left you for a hippie.
Just cause your mama says your defects are due to her time servicing diseased vets doesn’t mean you can take your anger out on all of us. I came back clean. If you ever find out who your daddy was you might want to do a little medical history on him.
And it ain’t like the Isreali’s are waiting for the go sign from me. Again, you’re just pissed cause you don’t know who your daddy was, except for some soldier. 🙂
The cheerleader for nuclear genocide says the Israelis don’t want for his go-ahead, so his craziness is justified. 🙂
LOL @ coming back clean. The dumb animal demonstrates his ignorance once again.
apparently, YD, I’ve been adopted by a troll whose best memories in life was watching his mama get serviced by a string of “uncles” in uniform. Coulda been pg&e guys, but in his head it’s GI’s.
Just making fun of the dumb animal defending all sorts of inexcusable behavior with irrelevant jibes about “abortion”.
It is well-trained, I’ll give it that.
Abortion? Is the dumb troll animal aware that it’s having 2 conversations? The one with the voices in it’s head and the one on ttag. Right?
The dumb military animal has been ranting and raving for such a long time he forgets what he posts in the past. Much like how he believes his mass murder spree in Vietnam was defending this country from VC’s invading on sampans.
Remember, this lion was illegally poached, unlike when VC’s went GI hunting killed your friends. That was 100% legitimate. 🙂
So long as you continue to give into your delusional fantasies you will never know any peace or success. I have both.
I have never been for or against abortion here. And just because in your mentally ill mind I’m a muderer doesn’t make it so.
Peace, out b*tch. 🙂
The government murderer claims success after a lifetime of collecting taxpayer-funded benefits. Oh my. 🙂
Murderers who are at peace with their actions: a sure sign of psychopathy. Confirm dumb government animal stereotype once again.
Wow, your life is even sadder than I thought. There you sit, twisted in knots just waiting for me to post so you can have some interaction, any interaction with another human.
I’m going to cave your world in. I will never respond to you again. Goodbye, crazy. 🙂
Says the guy reliably responding within minutes to everything I post. My sides. 🙂
I know you’ll keep posting. Dumb military animals are super-easy to bait. Just like at the recruiting station. Heh.
I’ve been biting my lip on that exact joke for a day now. I’ve just (hopefully) gotten over one wave of identity theft, I don’t want to risk another.
So far, the only problem I have with Dr.Palmer is that he caused the animal to suffer for 40 hours. I am fairly ignorant of bow hunting though and don’t know if this was predictable with such a weapon on such a large animal. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt on the other offenses until they are further substantiated.
“…So far, the only problem I have with Dr.Palmer is that he caused the animal to suffer for 40 hours. I am fairly ignorant of bow hunting though and don’t know if this was predictable with such a weapon…”
And we all know that no gun hunter has ever caused an animal to “suffer 40 hours” due to poor marksmanship.
Since you admit to little knowledge of bow hunting, let me assure you this is not common with the majority of bow hunters, no more than it is with gun hunters. But it does happen and oft-times not a fault of the hunter. Every hunter should be well aware of the many variables that can cause an erratic shot that wounds. With firearms, such incidents may be less common at ranges as close as archers need to get. But most gun hunters, especially those after dangerous game, will not approach any where near as close as an archer must get.
If there is any blame for this event to be allowed, that guilt is the contractor’s alone.
” I am fairly ignorant of bow hunting though and don’t know if this was predictable with such a weapon on such a large animal”
It was just bad shot placement. I wouldn’t be caught without a sidearm to back up the bow for game this dangerous. A wounded big animal can hear the bow string and attack at the sound after pain is inflicted upon it, and that is when a 44magnum comes in play towards a charging black bear’s skull. Grizzlies also attack at the rifle crack if wounded or sometimes when it decides it wants a piece of the hunter even though their heart and shoulder were demolished moments earlier.
Bow hunting is more of a primal art than hunting with a rifle, and the close distances to the animals are what make it such an experience. Broadheads on arrows are made to cause death by exsanguination, unlike where a bullet is made for immediate incapacitation of the intended target.
“… I wouldn’t be caught without a sidearm to back up the bow for game this dangerous…”
You can bet the guide had no interest in losing a customer and was adequately armed to drop any animal that focused a hungry eye on the doctor.
I’m not a fan of trophy hunting, but it’s the 40 hours I see as the main problem here.
There are a couple more facts to the story, which Czech celebrity hunter Michaela Fialová, who has extensive experience with hunting in Africa, pointed in an interview I read today: http://magazin.aktualne.cz/lovkyne-odstreleni-lva-cecila-byla-to-brutalni-poprava/r~8f73a17635e111e5ba38002590604f2e/
– even though the lion got out of the reservation, the kill was still illegal;
– the GPS collars on lions are impossible to miss;
– “the dentist” paid three times the normal rate for killing a lion in the area;
– “the dentist” apparently has a large history of making dubious kills, including a white rhino and some extremely rare wild sheep;
– the lion was clearly super healthy and strong specimen, not an old or injured one which are typically hunted in the area;
– there was no effort made to distribute the meat to locals, as is typical for hunts in the area, instead, the hunter et al tried to destroy the GPS collar.
I recommend reading the linked article with google translate.
The funny thing is I have yet to see a photo of this lion wearing a GPS collar. Even in the video linked with this story I don’t see one on it. Not saying that he did not have one on, but sometimes apparently it was not fitted with one. Also is not the Professional Hunter partly to blame if this is a illegal kill?
The people who procured the hunt have been apparently charged and face two to five years in prison for poaching. According to authorities there was no permit issued for hunting on the given property, they dispute that and claim they had all the paperwork in check.
But as Michaela summarized, everything points out to the fact that everyone involved must have been aware that they are poaching. Including Mr. Dentist.
I wonder how many other animals (to include lion cubs) Cecil the lion killed during his long life?
From what I remember from NatGeo male lions is kinda the pimps of the animal kingdom. The women do most of the grunt work.
The killing cubs thing happens if the male becomes an Alpha of a pride that already had cubs from another male.
I don’t know how alpha a lion named “cecil” would be. Sounds kinda british…..
Used to know a guy who went by “Cecil.” After all my years in South Carolina, I describe Texas Pete as hot sauce for people who find ketchup too spicy. Without exaggeration, Cecil was one of those people.
I’m not sure how one “lures” a lion away from its pride, a mile onto private land, but that’s the claim.
What they aren’t bothering to mention is the laws about lions. 6 years old minimum (this one was 13), and already kicked out of the pride (not the case allegedly with this one). So under the hunting regs, unless they’ve changed, this one was off-limits anyway. But that’s not the hunter’s fault; that’s why he has to hire pros.
On the other hand, he didn’t have much longer before getting kicked out of the pride. And no animal in Africa dies of old age… bullets beat getting eaten alive.
But yeah, this dentist was a lousy bow shot. Bow hunting dangerous game in my opinion is a stunt, and is disrespectful to the quarry.
Something else though: where was the game scout? You know, the REQUIRED government representative accompanying the hunting party to shoot poachers? Last I heard, that was mandatory in Zim. Why didn’t he object? That’s the other part of his job– enforce the hunting regs.
Anyway, this story is missing a whole bunch of relevant detail.
The missing details are part of what makes it look bad for Mr. Dentist. Details of the baiting/luring are already available, and, if true, he was a willing participant in a clearly illegal activity. Add to that the attempting to destroy the GPS tracker, and his entire story is suspect. I’m not saying he’s definitely guilty, but there are good odds that he knew he was doing something wrong.
Lots of fishy stuff happens in Zim. Everyone knows to triple-check everything there and get references. Well, everyone that knows something about African hunting anyway.
And that’s why I’m not going to support or condemn this guy until more details are available. I’m leaning away from him right now, but I don’t know if the information I’ve read is accurate.
They put an animal carcass on a truck bed and lured the lion to follow it out of the reservation.
This guy is a POS. Killing for sport?
Killing babies in the womb, murder. Planned Parenthood, murderers.
This guy just likes to kill. He knew this one was wrong. He knew he was breaking the law.
Yup, absolutely. This man was using his dentistry as a springboard to performing abortions. He should definitely never ever be allowed to live in a civilized society.
If you don’t hit an animal right with a bow, it will run on you and you may never find it. Its more remarkable that they found it.
The fact the animal was alive 40hrs later means it was a bad shot……
Absolutely. Right. And no animal shot with a firearm has ever escaped or run off to never be found.
Mr. Spock would have much to say about your logic. Since he’s fictional, I’ll have to be a stand-in.
Tell me: How do you define logic and critical thinking?
The logic is that with a bow the potential to not put the animal down quickly is much higher than it is with a gun. Sure you can still hit shoot an animal with either, but bows are harder to use effectively which is why they stopped using them on the battlefield. That’s not to say that bow hunting is inherently unethical, but I would say using a bow on dangerous game with thick skin borders on that. If I were hunting in Africa I would want to use a tool that I knew I could put an animal down quickly with. A bow is a less consistent method.
“… The logic is that with a bow the potential to not put the animal down quickly is much higher than it is with a gun. Sure you can still hit shoot an animal with either, but bows are harder to use effectively which is why they stopped using them on the battlefield. That’s not to say that bow hunting is inherently unethical, but I would say using a bow on dangerous game with thick skin borders on that. If I were hunting in Africa I would want to use a tool that I knew I could put an animal down quickly with. A bow is a less consistent method..”
Yes, the potential for a speedy kill is better with a firearm. But as to which is more effective? I’d have to argue that point since arrows (hence bows) have been in use far longer, and “potentially” have far more kills, than firearms. I won’t claim this as fact but as an totally unknowable figure.
Yes, bows are more difficult to use “effectively”, but that does not negate their “effectiveness” for hunting, just the hunter’s skill set. Which brings us to military use of archers… accuracy wasn’t the reason armies stopped using bows- effective methods of utilizing gun powder and bullets accurately at longer ranges was.
As for using arrows (hence bows) to hunt and kill dangerous game and being desirous of using a tool you’re comfortable with, let’s put it this way: There isn’t an animal on earth that hasn’t been effectively killed with a firearm that hasn’t been killed just as effectively with an arrow. Howard Hill alone has accounted for a great number of those animals, let alone those who came before.
As far as “ethics” is concerned, as an archer as well as gun hunter, I see no difference in one being more “ethical” than the other. The ethics of bow hunting are identical to those of gun hunting.
However, my “snark” to Grafton wasn’t so much about the weapon as it is toward his attitude that bows hunters are the ones who wound and lose animals.
Hope this clears some confusion.
My question would be, what is the point in killing an animal you don’t intend to eat and that has done you no earthly harm? I don’t understand it. But then, I dont understand some other activities that some people seem to get off on, like urolagnia and coprophilia.
It’s standard practice, and wise, to wait a certain amount of time before following wounded dangerous game into the brush. So whatever that wait time is would have to be subtracted from the 40 hours. That being said, I agree, it was a bad shot. And a bad, unethical hunt all the way around.
Slaughterhouse 5 reference?
Why is this even news worthy? Let alone THE top global story right now, good grief.
My first gut feeling about this story making the big news was that the anti-gunners were pumping this up to make all hunters look bad. They think 2A is about keeping guns for hunting so naturally they need to shed a negative light on hunting. This is the next propaganda campaign just beginning.
I wish I could remember the exact Archer quote, but basically, even most non-vegetarian Americans think meat comes from the grocery store. It’s not that they don’t want to think about when their meat was alive, it’s that they just don’t. (For the record, I made tacos out of ground venison this week.)
The funny thing is that this will be used as an anti-gun talking point, when the shot was made with a bow. One bad hunt/possible poaching makes us all look bad.
i also made a taco with ground venison, with left overs for burgers tonight. mmmmmm good healthy meat
“People want their steak, but don’t want to see the cow get slaughtered.”
-82nd Airborne Platoon Sergeant from the documentary “Occupation: Dreamland”
Implying the criminal war in Iraq had any sort of popular support in this country beyond the initial outburst of Pentagon generated enthusiasm and politically correct “support the troops” chanting.
That said it is disturbing (but hardly unexpected) that a government killer is connecting the deliberate murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians in a war to culling a cow for meat.
All signs point to plenty of broken laws.
For the hysterical public to use this as anti-hunting fuel is silly and yet common.
Just as every 20 year old career felon using a gun to shoot a shop owner is used as gun control fuel.
“…20 year old career felon…”
ROFLMBO- that is funny… a 20 year old who’s had a career. Classic.
Everything about this hunt seems dubious at best to me:
-luring the lion out of the reserve with bait (is hunting over bait illegal in Zim?)
-taking a strong, healthy lion that was not kicked out of his pride
-if the lion was indeed GPS collared, those are impossible to miss, especially at bow range
-leaving the meat to rot, instead of giving it to a local group
-paying triple the going rate to hunt a lion in this area
Pretty obvious the dentist and his guides knew exactly what they were doing, and that it was super illegal.
Not to be cynical, but has anyone actually verified the nefarious details yet, such as the 40 hour figure? From what I’ve read online, the only source for that has been a guy who works for some sort of animal conservation group. I just wouldn’t be surprised if he took some “liberties” when he eagerly gave his account of the hunt.
“…Not to be cynical, but has anyone actually verified the nefarious details yet…”
Oh, come now- don’t you read the comments here? You’re actually audacious enough to implore critical thinking? Get real, Man- it’s more fun to throw blame and point fingers than to analyze our own shortcomings! Just imagine how we’d be talking about this if we were all able to attend such a hunt.
Dr Palmer, I have a wisdom tooth that needs filling. If you like, I’ll be your first patient once this hullabaloo dies down. You can tell me all about it. Give me a little gas and we all will have a good laugh.
Hotdamn…I just knew there would be reruns of the Salem Witch Trials…’cept they left out the “trial” this time and just went to the verdict. Ain’t this New Media in the New World stuff just great!
If there were laws broken, its the professional hunter/safari co. that should be to blame, not the paying client. And it was likely the PH who recommended they wait “x” hrs before tracking the lion, not likely up to the “sport”, so its hard to blame the dentist for waiting so long to track and kill the lion (but feel free to question his shooting ability, although he likely paid his money and was not getting a refund if he didn’t take a shot…).
If it comes to light that the Dentist knowingly took part in bending or breaking rules it’s another story.
The whole baiting game outside the park is different issue. What should be done? Have a park where its illegal to hunt, then have another zone around the park where you can’t hunt? Then, your good to go? If so you have basically just made the park bigger right?
If there is essentially a line drawn where game is protected, and you can’t hunt, but on the other side you can hunt, I don’t see a problem. Maybe there should be a zone of no baiting allowed, outside parks?
As a hunter myself, I see a fine line in conservation, and hunters (when following the rules) tend to do more good than the anti-hunters. Everyone gets up in arms (no pun intended) over hunters killing game, but if the system is not corrupt, the hunters are funding a lot of the conservation coffers, while the hippies and anti hunters hardly contribute a dime, but are first to complain about hunters, and say how we need to protect the animals.
Unethical hunting (or incompetent if he didn’t know what his “pros” were doing was illegal) are as much a threat to hunting as the anti-hunting groups.
“…Unethical hunting (or incompetent if he didn’t know what his “pros” were doing was illegal) are as much a threat to hunting as the anti-hunting groups…”
As are hunters who think the Second Amendment is about hunting and thereby don’t defend all gun owners.
However, my real point here is that just because I book a hunt in Alaska (or fishing trip, whatever), that I am going to diligently study the Alaska game laws so I can remind my guide that some particular aspect is illegal. As for booking a hunt in Africa- I’m willing to step up and claim that 90% of those hunting tourists have no idea what the game laws are in Africa, let alone for each area they hunt. Hell, I know people whose total knowledge of our state game laws are the opening day of season. Period. That doesn’t make them bad hunters or unethical.
It doesn’t help hunting when people rush to defend unethical practices. Support ethical hunters and denounce unethical ones. Simple.
I’ll never understand what pleasure someone gets from sport/trophy hunting. There’s something wrong with your head if you enjoy hiding in some bushes and lining up a beautiful animal for no other purpose than to kill it.
I get hunting, but this stuff I don’t.
“…There’s something wrong with your head if you enjoy hiding in some bushes and lining up a beautiful animal for no other purpose than to kill it…”
Right- and you don’t have a gun under your scope while sitting on the deer stand.
As for hiding in some bushes, if you’re an archer, you ain’t hiding behind anything.
As for the purpose of killing, I’m glad you enjoy eating at McDonald’s where no animals were harmed to make your hamburger.
Did this guy eat the lion? Did he even distribute the meat to local villages, as is the custom in the region?
No, he did not.
And your point is what? That he doesn’t have an appetite? That every animal has to be turned over to a group of people who aren’t smart enough to invent a wheel or dig a well or raise their own livestock for food?
Did this man do something dastardly toward you or anyone you know? Did he denounce world peace or kill millions of babies or drop bombs on Dresden or allow Iran to have an atomic bomb? Please do inform the world what terrible deed this doctor performed. Questioning minds want to know.
Who are you to judge either the man or his motives?
It’s relevant because you defend the act as food-gathering, when there was in fact no food-gathering involved whatsoever.
LOL @ who are you to judge. Pray tell, when is judgment allowed? Hell, let’s ignore his motives, let’s just stick to actions and deeds.
Umm, I’m not defending this as “food hunting”- but you’re accusing him of not eating the animal.
Not to feed you your own words, but… “…Did this guy eat the lion? Did he even distribute the meat to local villages, as is the custom in the region? No, he did not..”.
I’m defending the man and his actions, has nothing whatever to do with food. There is a distinction (not that you’d notice, however).
Why are you talking about hamburgers then?
How can you defend a man’s motives without knowing him? Better yet, why do you feel obliged to?
“…How can you defend a man’s motives without knowing him? Better yet, why do you feel obliged to?…”
I have to know someone to defend them…
Yet you can denigrate the man without knowing him.
Just gotta love those double standards liberals enjoy.
Feel free to defend his actions and deeds, just as people are free to criticize them.
On the other hand if you want to justify motives then you better be able to read minds.
If you don’t understand it, then it must be wrong.
It pays for most wildlife conservation, so you should be happy with that, if you want to keep wildlife from going extinct.
Hmmm, except in this particular case, the money went to a PH and landowner and not the park rangers who protect the animal habitats, because they lured the lion out of the protected preserve with an animal carcass.
Cecil would still be alive today if Zimbabwe had universal background checks.
Trophy hunting should just be called killing as thats all it usually is. I am all for hunting and gun rights however to me personally this does not seem to “sporty”.
“…Trophy hunting should just be called killing as thats all it usually is. I am all for hunting and gun rights however to me personally this does not seem to “sporty”…”
Of course, we all understand that shooting deer from a tree stand or stalk is the only real kind of hunting any sane person should perform. After all, it isn’t really killing since the animal was shot with a pure heart and full intent of only being sporty.
Some people’s children.
If you want to be a “sport hunter”, use a camera.
You know what’s awesome? When a new male lion takes over a pride the first thing he does is kill all the cubs. Did “beloved” Cecil ever engage in infanticide? Who knows.
If, indeed, the “pro” hunter engaged in poaching then he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. No argument there.
The point I’m making is that anti-hunting types make this “beautiful, gentle nature” VS “evil genocidal hunter” argument when said argument is so much biologically processed gumbo.
Lions hunt. (Well, not the males, so we can’t accuse Cecil of that.) Animals kill other animals. Usually for food, but sometimes for sport, or, in the case of those lions mentioned above, to ensure their genetic material is passed on.
I am not a hunter but I support hunting and have friends who hunt. But this dentist sounds like a run of the mill jerk. He’s on his own to ME…I don’t want him to be a poster boy for the 2A…
“…I am not a hunter but I support hunting and have friends who hunt. But this dentist sounds like a run of the mill jerk. He’s on his own to ME…I don’t want him to be a poster boy for the 2A…”
I’m not a dentist but I support dentistry and have friends who are dentists. Heck, there’s even a dentist I hunt with.
So you’re calling a man you know absolutely nothing about a jerk and throwing him to the wolves because he isn’t a certifiable poster boy for the NRA (which isn’t necessarily anything about 2A rights)?
To ME, you sound like the pot calling the kettle black. But then again, I know as much about you as you do this dentist. What do I know?
You’re right-you know nothing…yep throwing him to the wolves. Some people have too much time or $ on their hands. And pray tell WHAT does this have to do with dentistry?NOTHING… I don’t have a problem with legal hunting in Africa(or America) but it is mind boggling that he would hunt a lion with a bow. Have a special day…
“…And pray tell WHAT does this have to do with dentistry?NOTHING… I don’t have a problem with legal hunting in Africa(or America) but it is mind boggling that he would hunt a lion with a bow. Have a special day…”
What does this have to do with dentistry? Absolutely nothing, no more than does your having “friends who hunt”.
You have no problem with legal hunting, yet you jump on a bandwagon condemning this dentist for hunting illegally, when you probably have as little knowledge of African hunting and professional hunters as I have of dentistry. (Or African game laws, for that matter.) Were you there? Do you know this Professional Hunter who was guiding the hunt? Do you know the dentist? That’s my point: you know nothing of the events beyond what the media tells you- and claim is “the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help them Gaia”. Yet you condemn the guy. Of course, you’re a Former Water Walker. Good thing.
Hunting a lion with a bow is mind boggling. It’s meant to be in this “day and age” because it’s something not everyone, even hunters, have the skill, desire, or courage to attempt let alone do. (Of course, not everyone wants to or can afford a $50K hunt.)
Thus endeth my rant.
And YOU should see how bad this makes gun owners appear. My wife has a very large decorative blog/website/FB site(s) and the FB thing is blowing up about this guy. Lots of middle-aged white women freakin’ out… WE are all judged-every day. Deal with an opinion-if I find your dentist donates free work to 3rd world children maybe I’ll change mine. Not much of a rant-I judge…
“…if I find your dentist donates free work to 3rd world children maybe I’ll change mine…”
And you know for a fact this dentist does not do this? Your wife knows? Or all those old biddies ranting over something they know nothing about? All those old biddies who voted democrat because they didn’t want to be perceived as being racist because everyone would know who they voted for? All those old biddies who shape public opinion and crucify any who aren’t like them? You, sir, make me laugh.
I’m willing to bet this dentist has contributed more to Africa’s economy than you, your wife, all her old biddy FB “friends”, and 99.9% (or more) of your acquaintances.
The vast majority of the gals are conservative Christian republicans. And I just saw Inside Edition _”The most hated man in the world”. Get a clue slick…
“…The vast majority of the gals are conservative Christian republicans. And I just saw Inside Edition _”The most hated man in the world”. Get a clue slick…”
Uh-huh- a bunch of “conservative Christian republicans”. Like that makes them saints. They probably cheer and wet their frilly white panties every time Boner agrees with oblah-blah. “The most hated man in the world”- yup: by “conservative Christian republicans” who should know it isn’t their business to condemn anyone and that hating them isn’t what they’re commanded to do. But then, these are “conservative Christian republicans”, not liberal socialist democrat Bambi loving tree hugging Gaia worshipers who we expect to act in such satanic manner.
Get a clue, Slick.
Can anyone comment who was present at the event?
Has anyone in the environmental movement ever lied?
Has any African governmental body (or any other governmental body for that matter)ever lied?
Did any of it happen the way it’s being described in the media?
Who really gives a fart in a high wind if some azzhole illegally shot a lion somewhere in Africa?
The Internet has kind of screwed up some folks’ priorities; crap you would have never known about not too long ago that befalls people you didn’t know existed and everyone has to get all spun up.
Hunting is necessary it must be done. It should be done legally. Most people say you should eat what you kill. May be, may be not. Does it taste good? You have to cull the herd. Over population of birds and animals is a problem all over America. And over population of animals in Africa cause the same problem there. If I remember correctly India looses 14 to 17 people a year to big cat attacks. Tigers, lepards, panthers. Pet dogs in the cities are a favorite food source. Sometimes a small child.
what gets me so riled up about this whole thing is the amount of money that goes into conservation from each one of these hunting permits better issued to out of state so called trophy hunters. The meat of the animal stays local and feeds the indigenous population, the skin and hide come home with the hunter via an airplane ride. and the $50,000 he paid cash guess where that goes to the African government and to the African people to use as they wish. if you think killing an animal is such a bad thing to do, why all these death threats to this doctor you must have some sort of pride for human life if not you’re a f****** moron!
About 70 people per year are killed by African lions (some sources list that number for Tanzania alone). Tanzania allows about 500 lions per year to be killed (one research recommends reducing that to about 170).
In any case, this one incident is a drop in the bucket. If he broke the law, prosecute him, but this is just like people going mad over Ferguson and ignoring double-digit death counts every week in Chicago.
hey tough guys, we can defend the 2A and still promote harmony with nature and empathy for life, can’t we? FLAME DELETED you don’t speak for me.
Waiting for someone to sue the internet for slander and defamation? The Dr’s statement is quite plausible and would best be viewed as truth until can be found otherwise. It’s no stretch to imagine he was taken for a ride by clever greed of scouts.
In 2009, Dr. Palmer, a dentist from Minnesota, paid $45,000 at an auction to help preserve an elk habitat in California.
A big-game hunter who prides himself on his skills in hunting without firearms, Dr. Palmer was profiled in 2009 in The New York Times, when he shot an elk dead from 75 yards with a compound bow in pursuit of a new bowhunting record. The Telegraph in Britain reported on Tuesday that he paid around $54,000 for the opportunity to hunt a lion.
BTW, look at this horse shit:
People should also check out this dentist on Pope and Young and Safari International sites.
Strange, isn’t it, that we know more about this dentist in two days than we know about the POS in the White House after eight years.
Just curious, how common is it to hunt with a crossbow? I was under the impression most bow hunters use compound bows. Is there an advantage to a crossbow for this type of animal?
Bob, this day and age, there are probably more compound bow hunters than hunters who use “conventional” bows- i.e. longbows and recurves (which is called “traditional” or “primitive” archery today, depending on your bow design).
Crossbows, as a generalization, are not very common for hunting but are gaining popularity. Several reasons account for crossbows not being very popular as hunting tools, though they are remarkably easy to shoot compared to conventional bows (compound, et-al). The major reason is the power curve: despite the tremendous poundage draw weight of a crossbow, they are terribly short ranged compared to other bows. The bolts have a much shorter effective range. Another reason is most state laws, which, happily, are changing with the times and crossbows are becoming more “legal”. The problem is that many states are only allowing them for disabled who cannot physically draw a conventional bow, or for “senior” citizens and those with a special permit (such as MN).
I think it was Iowa that was in the forefront of crossbow hunting way back when even other bow hunters were “anti crossbow” (yet were “pro-poison arrow- go figure that one out). Anyway, I digress: IIRC, Iowa got the ball rolling and proved their effectiveness for hunting by people who were ethical enough to hunt within the parameters set by their choice of weapon.
Hunting is not banned in the UK. Hunting foxes with hounds is banned. Just to be clear.
From posts from friends in the RSA, there is more to this story. In favor to the Dentist.
As a side, I camped in Hwange for a couple of days. In a tent. Listening to lions and hyenas and hippos during the night.
I slept like a baby. Yup, I woke up every 10 minutes crying…
If you don’t like hunting, you’re not the first. If you are troubled by the lengthy recovery, welcome to the world of bow hunting; in simple terms it happens to just about every bow hunter sooner or later. The bad thing here isn’t the dead lion with the precious name, he was no child and died a lion’s death which is one Hell of a lot better than what Mother Nature had in store for him when his predatory skills began to wane. The bad thing is this cult of “Believe and Do as we say’ or be damned and hounded to death by the instant lynch mob. This substitute religion whose sole pretext and pre-authorization for every degenerate act is that they feel so strongly. Oh, and if you don’t you’re simply not as enlightened as they are. They could care less about dead Cecil, and have an interest in the Dr only insofar as they can destroy and create another bended knee.
As far as the juvenile nonsense about ‘trophy hunting’ I mean seriously? The Masai who wears a lion skin on formal occasions who was bound by tradition to kill him with a spear…and don’t you know that was a pretty picture, is that not somehow a ‘trophy’? What of the magnificent Saukee bear claw necklace at the Gilcrease Museum west of Tulsa? As stunning a garment and statement that could be made by any chief or elder stateman, that’s not a trophy? In what alternate universe are these not symbols of accomplishment AND respect. Somewhere along the line it’s worth considering the Dr’s lion kill would have been utterly recognizable and broadly praised for the last 50 millenia or so. Odysseus would have understood the lion, so would Ramses and Alexander, not to mention Teddy Roosevelt and Geronimo. It’s only this newest generation of triggered snowflakes and their man-lets who can’t be bothered to extend themselves to understand and perhaps even respect something they lack both the initiative and guts to do themselves. These pathetic whiners don’t fear the lion killer, they fear his non-conformity and ultimately masculinity. The dentist isn’t the one selling baby parts while grifting half a billion a year of public money, now is he.
Well stated. Bravo.
Never apologize and never back down.
What this idiot dentist did was not hunting. I have nothing against subsistence hunting, but this was not hunting of any kind. Period.
I agree whole-heartedly. Hunting is driving up and down the street trying to find a McDonalds.
Whoo who! You agree with something! Sorry I didn’t reply to your diatribe but I see you’re yelling at others too. Have a swell evening…
Zzzinnnnggg! That one went right over your head, didn’t it?
Here’s a little more meat for the grinder:
Lions are poached every day in Africa, all day.
The only difference is that none of those lions have cute names and those poachers aren’t rich Americans.
This is simply manufactured outrage for people without problems.
It’s a safe bet that within 10 miles of where this horrible deed allegedly occurred, there people who don’t have time to worry about if somebody killed a Lion of Note because they’re starving, or the neighboring clan is pissed and has started killing and eating folks they don’t like.
We’ve created a system wherein poor people are fat, jobless people have data plans, and rich people are ashamed. When the possibly illegal killing of an animal on the on the other side of the planet is the worst thing that happened to you today–you have it made.
Look no further than green types and animal rights freaks if you want to witness the emotionally driven hate-fest that is the progressive ideology. I guarantee you every yob spouting death threats at this dentist never bothered to crack open a web page on the difficulties of wildlife conservation in Africa. Otherwise they would know the young and reproductively healthy lions, rhinos, etc frequently get attacked and killed by old, impotent, and power-hungry Cecils of the animal kingdom. Forget about the major funding boost anti-poaching task forces get from these hunts or the meat donated to impoverished villagers who truly need it; weeding out rogue specimens that actively retard the growth of already endangered species is common sense and is a worthy enough reason for hunts like this to take place.
“weeding out rogue specimens that actively retard the growth of already endangered species is common sense and is a worthy enough reason for hunts like this to take place.”
Yup. And what better person to decide which lion needed killing than a dentist from Minnesota? .
How about a better idea? How about we simply not fuck with threatened species at all and focus our hunting on the many (many) species which are super-abundant?
This is the same park where poachers poisoned a water hole with cyanide to kill a whole herd of elephants for their tusks.
Not much press on that kill off. It also killed every other animal within miles that used that particular watering place.
Damn. THAT’S the kind of thing people should be getting twisted up about, not the sport hunters (minus this one idiot) who’re financing the habitat conservation. Don’t even get me started on the Asian market for rhino horn and what that’s doing to the species. If people really want to help, they need to focus on the real problems.
The solution to this situation would be to stop selling meat at the stores and make everyone raise or hunt their own meals. Tudah, problem solved!
It does my heart good when I read of a hunter on hunter shooting, or the hunted animal kills its would be killer, or hunter takes a misplaced step, falls in ravine. Good times. Why not round up all of the big, tough animal killers…and planned parenthood, stick ’em all on C130’s and static line ’em out over the middle east to take care of the ISIS we created.
Thanks for wishing death on me, and I guarantee you I’ve done far more for wildlife conservation than you have. You’re welcome.
Naw, you’ve just done more killing and try to rationalize it by paying hunting tags to the government you constantly bemoan. Killing is killing, animal or fetus, we all have potential that shouldn’t be interfered with. Let the animals live and die in their own way. Some of us having developed a cognitive faculty realize that we no longer have to kill for food nor breed like rabbits or believe in fairy tails.
“… Some of us having developed a cognitive faculty realize that we no longer have to kill for food nor breed like rabbits…”
At least, not since you can pay someone to do your killing for you, or have an abortion.
Trophy hunters seem mentally ill. You are pretty much killing because you want to kill living things for Fun and can’t get away with murderering humans. And enough about you love the beauty of animals soo much that you just have to kill them. I’m sure they’d prefer if you just shot them…with a camera.
When did sport hunting get this rep? Do you seriously think all the millions of men and women who head out on opening day deer season are mentally ill? These are normal, everyday Americans.
Standard divide and conquer strategy, pick out one sub-group and turn the rest against them the left uses. Much like the “we only want to ban these non-sporting ‘assault weapons’ you don’t ever have to worry about us taking away your hunting shotguns or rifles. No really you can trust us!”
I prefer my food to be free ranging, anti-biotic free. I also prefer to help out farmers and hunt next to their farms.
Alfalfa fed deer is some of the best venison there is!
And yes, if the animal is special enough, I’ll gladly pay a taxidermist to mount it so I can proudly display that fine animal in my home.
Juliesa made a comment earlier about putting more money and time into conservation than the anti hunting crowd, and I’ll second that.
So far this year, (and it’s barely half over), I’ve put a considerable amount of money towards conservation in the form of licenses and tags. And not just Oregon. Add in Idaho, Montana, Utah, South Africa and Mozambique.
How much money have you contributed Kevin?
This site has a major troll issue at the moment. No point in jumping into it right now
Kermit Gosnell murders unborn babies and no one cares, but one man shoots a lion, which is a nasty brutal animal BTW (lions are not the noble animals they look like, they are murderers and killers), and everyone loses their minds. Lions look nice because of the mane and the golden fur, but in reality, they are brutal and nasty. They kill one another, commit infanticide, and are bigger scavengers than hyenas. The hyena doesn’t get much love because, again, perception. The hyena looks nasty. It has the pitch-black eyes, the black fur, a cry that sounds like a high-pitched laugh, and everyone thinks it is a scavenger, whereas the “noble” lion hunts (which it does, but it also scavenges big-time).
If this man had shot a collared hyena, I wonder if there would be near the uproar. Would there be a stuffed animal memorial with stuffed hyenas being put in front of the man’s dental office? And not excusing what this man did, but the uproar people need to clam down a bit. There are plenty of other things to be more upset about and most of them are probably only upset because of their misconceptions about lions.
Those calling for the hunting of these animals to be stopped also are going to lead to their destruction should they succeed. Caring about lions is a luxury of rich Westerners. For poor people who actually have to live with the things, you kill them. Otherwise, they’ll kill your children, your animals, and you. Such people don’t give a crap about animal rights or conservation or any of that. If you’re just trying to make a living, and you have to deal with lions, you kill them. The only reason people haven’t done so with many of these lions is because there is an economic incentive to keep them around.
Karma. Maybe you shouldn’t go around killing tame animals for adventure.
A tracked lion in a preserve is a far cry from tame.
Yet more conflating other social issues with the second amendment. I’ve said this before and many of you still don’t get it; equating other social issues with the second amendment is both stupid and self defeating. I know many pro choice people who are pro 2A. I know many anti-trophy hunting people who are pro 2A.
Do all of us who want to keep our firearms and our 2A rights a favor, stop equating the 2A to any other social issue! I don’t give a crap what you think about any other social issue on a site about firearms and the right to own them. You want to rail about other issues feel free, do so in the appropriate place and don’t equate yourself to me or anyone else who’s actually more concerned about the second amendment then your pet social issue.
Analogies are the Devil! Someone might learn something! [GASP]
Analogies being code for promoting your agenda on social issues. Spare me the “learning something” drivel.
What does the Second Amendment have to do with hunting?
When you learn the difference, let us know.
NOTHING! See-I don’t hate you…and if 10000000 hunters supported the Second Amendment(NRA,SAF,GOA,etc.)and voted accordingly instead of being (Elmer) Fudds most of gun owners problems would disappear…
The whole matter is just confusing… I’m an outsider to the human race, for sure.
I think the Dentist was a dick. His persecutors are even worse, and look how many of them there are…
I’m glad I’m not from this planet. Humanity is a monumental embarrassment.
Meanwhile how many human beings in Africa died from malaria today? Oh well they don’t count but 1 lion OMG the tragedy! Brought to you by the same bleeding hearts that scream anytime someone tries to drain or spray an insecticide on a malaria mosquito infested swamp.
I have loved watching nature documentaries all my life. I’ve seen several about lions. Before shedding a tear for poor Cecil’s fate at the hands of this hunter, one should consider what Mother Nature had planned for him. He was 13 years old, which means that in the not-so-distant future, he would have been banished from his pride by a younger, stronger, more aggressive male. That male would immediately kill Cecil’s cubs to end his bloodline. All males do this. Cecil did it. After banishment, Cecil would have roamed the wilderness alone, been attacked by other male lions enforcing their territorial rights, and been forced to fend for himself. Lions, particularly males, are highly dependent on the hunting abilities of the females. Males just aren’t good hunters, especially when alone. This leads to malnourishment and hunger which lead to disease. The combination of hunger, disease, old age, and isolation result in a slow, painful, and heartbreaking death, especially for such a “proud” beast. So whatever one might think about the ethics of hunting and whether this hunter should have ended Cecil’s life when he did, Nature doesn’t care and would have been far more ruthless.
This^^^ Amen, thank you.
I will not hesitate to kill anything I want to eat, as long as it is taken in a legal, sportsman-like, responsible, and humane manner. I will also not hesitate to lawfully kill anyone or anything that tries to kill me.
That said, Dr. Palmer is not a sportsman, and should not be given the consideration due to real sportsmen. He has twice broken fish and game laws, and his taking of this beloved lion was done in an illegal, low, and cowardly manner.
And let’s face it, who in their right mind should be taking threatened and endangered species for trophies? If it’s dwindling in the wild, take a picture instead.
Using pointy sticks to kill endangered animals for fun is morally indefensible
The sheeples illusory solipsistic fantastical reality constructs shall not be infringed.
Sounds so far like Dr Dentist canned hunt guy axed the bottom of his own boat in a number of ways, but it remains to be seen, more facts need to come around the bend. A lot of what looks and smells suspiciously like BS flying around out there on this Cecil the Lion kerfuffle. The good news is, Dr Dentist canned hunt guy’s family and kids if he has em are terrorized and their lives are upside down and sideways, his employees are out of work trying to figure out how to pay their bills and feed their kids, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people have gotten an awesome opportunity to feel morally superior and have their shallow deathmarch existences validated through self congratulatory blathering on social media and television, and a few hundred babies were killed in a less crunchy way across America in the time it took me to type this. Congratulations Sheeple!!! You’ve made a difference in the world!!! Mother Gaia thanks you…”Thanks Sheeple!!! Can’t wait till you fertilize me!”
Dragging a carcass behind a truck to lure away, spotlight, and shoot a sanctuary lion habituated to humans is just plain old killing, not hunting. Folks like Palmer with more money than good sense are an affront to what hunting once was. Whether it’s guided lion poaching in Africa or shooting pen raised trophy bucks inside high fenced acreage in Texas, most if not all high end commercial “hunts” with trophies guaranteed for the right price are nothing more than entrepreneurial extraction of big $$$ from losers who get their rocks off from a pretend hunt that concludes with an easy kill. All this negative publicity surrounding the chicken$#it “taking” of Cecil the lion by this idiot Dentist from Minnesota only strengthens an aversion to hunting most millennials share. Sadly, hunting in the U.S. is increasingly becoming an exclusive and expensive activity that a majority of Americans, especially younger Americans, can’t afford and will never have the opportunity to learn, experience, or enjoy.