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The DC Project‘s Washington State Director and the gun rights org’s suicide prevention educator Kathleen Gilligan has been awarded a $1 million grant from the Department of Veterans Affairs. The grant is for the development of the Sentinel mobile app and system to safely store and monitor firearms for veterans at risk of suicide.

The Sentinel system is designed to reduce veteran suicides by encouraging voluntary safe storage of firearms. The application integrates “smart” locking devices combined with community support from other veterans, family and friends.

As Sentinel describes the idea . . .

Sentinel gives vets a platform to apply this dedication to protecting their fellow vets by teaming up for safe storage of firearms and medications, and providing peer to peer support. …

Sentinel was designed as an enhanced safe gun storage method to help prevent suicide, injury and accidents. The system allows for 100% voluntary implementation by the user/veteran, and also allows varying degrees of implementation. Additionally, Sentinel provides veterans the tools needed to build their support team and opportunities for learning about safe storage, mental health and suicide prevention. Sentinel will be available for both Android and IOS (Apple) devices and will be downloadable via Google Play or the App Store.

Here’s the DC Project’s press release announcing the award . . .

DC Project Founder Dianna Muller commented, “As an organization that touts firearm safety, we applaud our Suicide Prevention Educator, Kathleen Gilligan, winning a $1 million grant for her Sentinel mobile app. It will have a vast impact not only for Veterans but in preventing countless suicides.” Muller said, “For years, the DC Project has maintained firearm owners have meaningful solutions to reduce firearms deaths, and this is an outstanding example.”

Kathleen Gilligan and her business partner were the recipients of a $1 million grant from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, fielded from more than 1,300 concept submissions.

Kathleen Gilligan (courtesy DC Project)

Sentinel is a Veteran suicide prevention customizable mobile app. It combines lethal means restriction with real-time support of a trusted safety team. Sentinel is a highly scalable application designed to reduce Veteran suicide. It encourages safe storage of firearms and medications, while facilitating strong connections with other Veterans, family, and friends. Sentinel is ideally successful when partnered with a basic suicide education one-hour class included in the app program.

Gilligan stated, “Winning the grant to help prevent Veteran suicide is an honor and privilege that allows us to make a real difference in the lives of those who have served our country.” Gilligan added, “Being able to contribute to the health and well-being of our Veterans is an incredible opportunity to serve those who have served. Sentinel is the gift that supports Veterans daily to practice the safe storage of their firearms and medications.”

To learn more about the voluntary mobile app, visit: https://www.sentinelsafetyteam.com.

Learn how to support or join by becoming an effective Second Amendment advocate in your community and with your legislators by visiting our website: http://DCPROJECT.info. Follow us on The DC Project – Home | Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and visit our extensive video library on our You Tube channel.

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134 COMMENTS

  1. I have no interest in suicide prevention as a “program”, or “movement”, or something to be enshrined in law and policy.

    If a person wants to check out, it is their life (there may be religious considerations regarding suicide, but in a secular world, individuals are sovereign agents).

    As long as people want to talk about suicide, let them. If they stop talking, leave them alone. So long as a person is not intent on taking others along with the suicide, we have no societal or moral obligation to wrestle them to the ground, or imprison them for wanting what they see as a better resolution to their lives.

    If an individual has a natural, human and civil right to end others in defense of their own life, so it is such individuals have a natural, human and civil right to end themselves.

      • “We have an obligation to respect and protect life. That includes our own.”

        And when a person decides protecting their own life is no longer an item of interest, we have an obligation to respect their free agency to end it.

        The whole idea of govt/society protecting people from themselves is rubbish. If people want to stuff a house key into an electrical outlet, govt/society has no moral authority, or obligation, to demand electric outlets be made people proof.

        I am convinced automobile seat belts and air bags are useful, effective, and prevent a lot of death an injury in an accident. However, if I want those features, they should be consumer options, not mandates.

        • Sam I am — unfortunately, if you get in a serious accident because you didn’t wear your seatbelt, our first responders will literally risk their lives to get to you and save your life. Then when you are taken to the hospital, doctors and nurses will do everything possible to save your life regardless of the immediate cost, which you probably won’t be able to afford because you undoubtedly don’t believe you should carry health insurance. Then, in the case all fails and you die, your expenses will be paid for by the working taxpayers in the price of higher insurance premiums. Think about being responsible instead of relying on the government or us responsible taxpayers coughing up our hard earned dollars to pay for your irresponsibility.

        • A cop told me a story about two elderly couples going out to eat. They were in a car accident. At least one person didn’t wear their seat belt. The cop said that person’s body moving through the car during the accident was responsible for killing another one of the passengers. They didn’t tell the survivor that story.

      • Dude — I agree with you that we have an obligation to respect and support life, too, so I’m agreeable to this program. Please TTAG — follow up with the DC Project to see if they can provide quantitative results after a year.

        • The million focuses on firearms when there is a laundry list of items someone who is sucidal can and will use. It’s their life and if they want to check out they will firearm or no firearm. The better approach is giving people a reason to live like hanging around to vote democRats out.

        • Many people can’t afford to live from paycheck to paycheck, much less to be able to afford healthcare. It used to be if you worked or belonged to a union, your group insurance was affordable for most people, unless you had what was considered a teenager job, a second job, or a spouse’s temporary job.
          Now, healthcare expects everyone to be double insured and if you aren’t they question you “WHY NOT?” Many jobs now expect you to be covered under Obamacare(the really poor and those not working are covered are covered, but those who actually try to be productive members of society are the ones that can lose there apartment or car because they broke an arm or leg slipping on ice out on the sidewalk.
          Employers do not want to offer group insurance for their employees any more, they just dump what was their responsibilities on the government.

        • Innocent Bystander- please continue to be a bystander. This is a Red Flag Order level bullshit. As a retired veteran, former police officer, paramedic, and firefighter, this is wrong. How does a DNR work in your life? You want off yourself, you will, Big Brother or no. Fuck off

    • I totally agree. A person should have their right to STOP being alive respected. The obsession with some to keep a person who no longer wishes to be alive, alive is not helpful. I’m not saying that we need push people to suicide, and If a person I know is considering it, they really need to talk to someone. Things are often not as bad as a person feels it is in the moment.

      But if I’m dying of some debilitating disease and I’m going to spend the last months of my life in pain, I’m going to click that “self-delete” button.

      • “I’m not saying that we need push people to suicide, and If a person I know is considering it, they really need to talk to someone.”

        Have a former co-worker who has been “on the edge” for months. We talk and email. Always, I tell him, “I will talk to you as long as you want, as often as you want, but I will never agree that checking out is an intelligent decision.”

        My friend is in deep therapy, but calls me often. I never tell him that he shouldn’t do what he talks about.

      • “I’m going to spend the last months of my life in pain”

        I understand that too. I don’t think that’s the reason for most suicides.

    • Yeah. How about a $100 rebate for a lockable gun safe for vets if they want to waste taxpayer money? (No, I’m not a veteran.)

      I don’t think electronic nanny trying to monitor guns is going to stop anyone from checking out if they’ve decided to. Probably won’t even stop them from using a gun if that’s what they want.

  2. Why am I a little suspicious of this? Perhaps because veterans needing assistance with financial management were reported to the national background system?

  3. The risk of suicide goes up dramatically when there is a handgun in the home because it is so lethal, easy and quick. Most First Responders have stated they cannot save someone who blew their brains out but have saved many more people who have tried suicide by other less lethal and quick methods such as deliberate overdoses on medication or even slitting their wrists etc. etc.

    https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html

    The risk of deadly domestic violence also is dramatically higher when there is a gun in the home and the majority of women murdered are killed usually by their own husbands proving that break in murders are very rare in comparison.

    All this is rejected by the paranoia of the Far Right Fanatics who cannot be reasoned with nor made to accept literally hundreds of studies which prove a gun in the home makes it much more likely you will be killed by a gun.

    • @dacian

      False

      A person at risk of suicide is already and remains at risk of suicide even if there is no gun in the home and their chances, not risk, of committing suicide “goes up dramatically” when they do not get help.

      The risk of “deadly domestic violence” is already a risk because its a “deadly domestic violence” environment and remains a risk even if there is no gun in the home, and the chances, not risk, of “deadly domestic violence” happening is “dramatically higher” because the ‘victim’ remains in the “deadly domestic violence” environment.

      The motivator and driver and cause behind committing suicide or “deadly domestic violence” is mental illness, not a gun.

      Your study deceptively conflates terms and data to satisfy a pre-determined conclusion. You conflate terms because you are you.

      • Booger — what is your claim based upon, your expertise in suicide prevention? Mathematics? Please present the factual basis for your assertions. dacian cited Stanford University. What are your claims based upon?

        • Jethro — LOL, good oneI suppose he’s a liberal. I just am impressed someone around here actually backs up their posts with a fact or two instead of gas-bagging like they are experts on every subject.

        • Most of his ‘facts’ come from anti gun orgs. Keep an eye on the ‘facts’ he routinely puts up. His citations are suspect at best.

      • Booger — your assertion is inaccurate.

        If you remove one way of committing suicide, you do not necessarily have the person reach for another. I’ll try and dig up the source, but Open Source Defense (good folks to follow) pointed me at a study a while ago that showed that for women, if you remove the gun they will find other ways to end their life. Men, however, were different in that if you removed the gun, not all would reach for other means. And since suicide by gun is primarily a middle-aged men problem, as much as we want to avoid talking about it, we owe it to ourselves and our fellow brothers to help reduce suicide’s terrible toll.

        It will also take the wind out of the gun grabbers’ hands if suicide by gun number drop, as they will not be able to keep asserting that gun deaths keep climbing.

        • @Marcin

          “Booger — your assertion is inaccurate.

          If you remove one way of committing suicide, you do not necessarily have the person reach for another. ”

          I didn’t assert that.

          I basically asserted that a person at risk of suicide is already and remains at risk of suicide unless they get help.

          Gun availability doesn’t increase the risk because they are already at increased risk simply by having the (real) suicide ideation that causes them to seek out suicide and that ideation is what increases the risk dramatically.

          Its falsely conflating to equate a gun access to an increased risk of suicide if the person was already at risk.

          A risk of suicide does not magically appear because there is access to a gun. A risk of suicide does not magically disappear because there is not access to a gun.

          These types of study’s such as the one dacian points to, and touting them as definitive as dacian and ‘Innocent Bystander’ (AKA Miner49er) and the rest of their anti-gun buddies do, are dangerous. They imply, or state, that if gun access is removed the RISK of suicide goes away or decreases – that is 100% false. That idea causes people to not seek treatment for the underlying condition that drove them to the real suicide ideation to begin with. The lack of a desired/chosen method of a gun may reduce the chances of a person carrying out the act by use of a gun, but the underlying condition that drove them to real suicide ideation is still there and they are still at increased risk gun or not if they do not get help. Removing the method of choice is not the same as removing the cause that got them to the point of making that method choice.

          This is not to say that without a gun they will seek out another method and use what ever else to still commit the actual act. But removing access to a gun does not magically remove the real suicide ideation which causes the risk.

          dacians study, and dacian, and ‘Innocent Bystander’ (AKA Miner49er) all support the false logic of ‘correlation=causation’ – that the risk is somehow greater if a gun is available, when the risk was there all along if there was a gun or not if there was suicide ideation. Their BS assumes the gun caused the suicide ideation – its the false logic ‘correlation=causation’ of anti-gun.

          If it were as simple as removing a possible method there would not be 100% of the mental health community saying baiscally “suicide ideation is a mental illness condition that needs treatment and without treatment there is an increased risk of suicide.”

        • the thing about suicide numbers, they are not reliable and the stats are falsely inflated.

          Sometimes ruled suicide is not really a suicide.

          The state of ruling what is or is not a suicide in this country is horrible. The majority of those called ‘coroner’ that are deciding if something was suicide or not are not even medical doctors to begin with and are going on what the police report said.

          Then the police frequently bungle the investigation by jumping to conclusions and when a medical doctor is involved they are stupid sometimes. For example; A case that’s going to be reopened after years was ruled suicide – the woman was found dead in her home with more than 20 stab wounds (in back, head, chest) with a kitchen knife, any one of half the wounds would have caused death in less than 30 seconds. The police said it was a suicide because the doors and windows were locked from the inside, not even bothering to consider that someone with a key could have entered and simply locked the door on the way out. Despite evidence on the body to the contrary and the fact that the woman was dead before a lot of the stabs were made meaning those stabs were after she was already dead the doctor went with the police report and ruled it suicide. Several different doctors with expertise in forensic medicine come forth and challenged the findings finally years later.

          But here’s the thing, once a death is ruled suicide it is never removed from the suicide numbers if it later found to have not been suicide – this falsely inflates the suicide numbers and falsely slews the stats. This is common with gun suicides, although initially ruled a suicide they may be later found to have been an accident or even murder staged to look like suicide but in suicide numbers and stats they remain.

          Murders staged to look like suicide has been growing at an alarming rate over the past 22 years. Some notable cases examples of murder staged to look like suicide (I use these because the police were actually able to get a suspect which is rare):

          Jeanette Jumping Eagle in 2020 – ruled as suicide by firearm, later found to have been murder staged as a suicide. In this case the police were able to discover and arrest suspects. This one is interesting as it represents the shortest time ever in police coming up with suspects in a murder staged to look like suicide.

          Meg Purk in 1985 – ruled as suicide by hanging. This one is interesting because of the way it was prosecuted. Eventually decades later her murdered, Scott Purk her husband, was sentenced for the murder. It was not until Scott Purk had committed two more crimes years later (arson) after the murder did he come back on police radar (although police were suspicious at the murder scene, but ruled suicide so case closed). Although he was convicted for the murder (and the two arsons), the prosecution had to exhume Meg’s body and rely on marks on the body to make its case and it was a weak case because all the other evidence had been destroyed years before (common in ruled suicide, there is a time limit sometimes). But the jury believed the prosecution and convicted Scott Purk, but although now convicted if Scott Purk had not committed those two arsons he would never have been caught for the murder. During the investigation into one of the arsons Purk made an odd remark about his wife and this caused the police to look further and make him a suspect in the murder.

          There have been many cases of murder staged to look like suicide. Except for very few cases, the police never have a suspect and never go back and pursue investigation of the case as a murder. But here again is the thing, even though later found not to have been suicide but rather murder these two example cases I offered still appear in their states suicides records as suicides and their numbers are counted in stats thus falsely inflating the numbers and stats.

          So in reality we don’t actually know, the studies don’t actually know, what percentage of that claimed to be gun suicides are actually suicide. It may be many years before what was initially ruled a suicide is found to have not actually been suicide, and even then those numbers still remain in the stats as suicide when found to be accident or murder staged to look like suicide. The anti-gun study dacian posts starts throwing around numbers and percentages and ‘increased risk’ and a lot of hand waving without even knowing if the data they are using in their ‘correlation=causation’ false logic missive is actually all really suicides.

    • darcydodo…The military wing of your democRat Party known as the kkk were the Gun Control enforcers and nitwits thought that was a great idea and of course the nazi party thought the same for Jews, misfits, etc. In other words the foundation for your Gun Control solutions originated in a toilet used by racists and nazis.

    • The risk of suicide goes up dramatically when there is a handgun in the home because it is so lethal, easy and quick

      So is five dollars worth of fentanyl it’s a lot less mess AND it is now the NUMBER ONE cause of death among people ages 15-34..

      More than four (4) times as many people died from drug overdose (OD) than from homicide in the first month of 2021.

      96,779 drug overdose deaths were reported from March 2020 to March 2021.
      OD death totals during this period are 36.1% higher than the previous annual high from December 2018 to December 2019 (71,130 deaths).
      Preliminary reports indicate the number of drug overdose deaths in America increased 29.6% in 2020.
      In January 2021, drug overdose deaths exceeded homicides by 306.7%.
      Motor vehicle accidents and suicides combined killed 84.5% as many as ODs.

      NCDAS
      National Center for
      Drug Abuse Statistics

    • You’ve claimed to own guns, dacian. Does this mean you were lying and don’t actually own a gun or that you see yourself as the exception to the rule and are capable of the responsibility of firearms ownership and nobody else is?

    • Because our lives belong to THE STATE and suicide is “Willful destruction of state property”.

      Chinese citizens even refer to themselves as huminerals because they see themselves as a resource to be consumed. If a party member needs an organ transplant they can volunteer anyone who matches.

    • “All this is rejected by the paranoia of the Far Right Fanatics who cannot be reasoned with nor made to accept literally hundreds of studies which prove a gun in the home makes it much more likely you will be killed by a gun”

      Replace the word “gun” with anything else found in the home and you have the same result.

      Do you understand how stupid that sentence is and how stupid you are for repeating it?

    • 400 million (likely a very low estimate) guns in the US and 26.3 thousand suicide deaths by gun is approximately .0051% of ALL guns and is approximately 52% of ALL suicides and of the other 48% (19-20 thousand) surely there was access to firearms in at least 20-50% of THOSE cases yet they decided to do it some other way. Does the dacian “approved” study look at availability of guns in ALL suicides or JUST those in which a gun was used? I was raised around guns and I’ve owned guns ever since I could raise one up and pull the trigger and there is no way in hell I would entertain the thought of killing myself with one, there are too many calm, quiet options…

    • so lets see…

      according to dacian and his ‘correlation=causation’ study and ‘Innocent Bystander’ (AKA Miner49er)

      1. people commit suicide because there is access to a gun.

      2. if there is not access to a gun a person at risk of suicide is magically not at risk of suicide

      3. The overall mental health community is wrong that a person at risk of suicide is always at risk of suicide unless they get help.

      4. the dacian study looks at just those who have committed suicide with a firearm, but magically it means everyone with access to a gun is “dramatically” at increased risk of suicide.

      5. Guns some way or another come to life and force a person to commit suicide thus causing suicide and there is absolutely no other cause of suicide.

    • Dacian,

      The biggest risk factor for suicide is probably untreated mental illness.

      There are a lot of reasons why people don’t seek help, or may even outright refuse, even when they need it.

      Threatening to take people’s guns away (which they generally don’t actually do unless it’s really, really bad…but that’s beside the point) is probably one of them.

  4. Kathleen Gilligan and the DC Project appear to be an the protect-your-rights side of the spectrum, but this sounds fishy. Are there any more details about the “means restriction” side of this app?

  5. How about community support from other veterans, family and friends, WITHOUT locking up, controlling and tracking a firearm…

    I can see it now… Veteran: fuck it, I’m done, time to go.. Oh shit, I can’t kill myself right now, I have to wait til 11AM when the timer unlocks my gun, or I COULD push the emergency button OR I could get in my car and go run head-on into a brick wall, drive over a cliff, into the river, head-on with a big truck.. It’s just more bullshit to waste money and say hey, look what I did… I’m surprised, this could cut their gun related deaths numbers considerably, then what would the gun-controllers do?

  6. Absurdity. They should be spending the $1 million grant to makes vets less suicidal. Guns, and access to them, aren’t the problem here.

    • Dude — read dacian’s post above, you’re actually incorrect, easy access to guns does contribute to the problem.

        • Maddmaxx — I have no degree, but the preponderance of posters around here that just blurt out baseless lies is simply astounding. Yesterday three people argued that 48 of 50 equals 98%, and started name-calling when they couldn’t back it up.

        • Innocent:
          Yeah, I noticed that yesterday too. I suspect the error you mention started out as a typo, and the others just aped it without thinking about it.
          As a guy who spent a sizable portion of his career doing technical writing, I know that a writer has to review the stuff he (or she) writes and make corrections before publication. Even then, errors get missed. I know, because I’ve missed a few goofy ones myself over the years.
          My point is that a lot of commentators on this website just dash their stuff off and never look back. And all of that being said, I think you’re making a mountain out of a molehill.

      • IB. In my youth you could and we did mail order guns straight to your home. You could buy firearms in hardware stores and auto parts stores with no waiting period or background check. In the student parking lot at my high school there were pickups with full rifle racks on display. When I was 13 I bought guns at yard sales and rode them home on my bike.

        Tell me again about that ‘easy access’ thing you talk of.

      • Innocent Bystander,
        I read the article. There isn’t anything groundbreaking there. Guns are not the cause of suicide. The cause of suicide is people being suicidal. I have multiple guns. I have easy access to them. They aren’t going to cause me to commit suicide because I’m not suicidal. Now if I was suicidal, then I would look around for the easiest tool for the job. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. If I didn’t have guns, I would find another way to do it. I knew someone that committed suicide last year. He didn’t use a gun. Teens regularly figure out how to do it without using guns. Anyone could do the same. This $1 million grant is not addressing the actual problem of being suicidal.

    • “Yesterday three people argued that 48 of 50 equals 98%”

      that’s not what was being argued to you. you simply did not understand the math being used… its 5th grade proportional equation math. you are trying to mix whole numbers and precentages, a common mistake for someone that doesn’t grasp the simple math involved. they are not like units, you can not mix n match them like you are trying to do. you have to convert them to like units and to do that in this case we use proportions to arrive at precentages because precentages is what we are after for the answer.

      in the context of the article for which the comments you rant about info it does = 98%

      we use the info we have, I’ll be brief for your short attention span…. first a refresher for you…

      100% – 98% = 2%
      50 – 48 = 2

      ok, understand basic subtraction?

      if 50 represents the whole then it is 100% as a whole proportion. if 48 is a portion of the 50 … scaling to precentages leaves 98% as a proportion of the whole of 100%.

      if 50 represents the whole proportion then it is 100% of the proportion, where 98% of the whole proportion of 100% is represented by 48.

      like I said in my comments. you missed the point.

      • Dude 48 is 96% 0f 50 no matter whose fucking math you use OR whatever the POINT actually was… Math is math…

        Using YOUR math if 50 doubled is 100 then 48 doubled is 96 (not 98)… If that “proportional” bullshit is what kids are being taught in 5th grade, we are truly fucked…

        • “Using YOUR math if 50 doubled is 100 then 48 doubled is 96 ”

          I did not say that, no that’s not the math I was using. I said that 50 represented a whole proportion of 100%. I didn’t double 50.

          Its simple math. Its been taught in every grade school in the world for 70 years. Its the same basic math used, for example, in scaling recipes for different size portions, its used in architecture to scale, and maintain proportions. You’ve used it yourself without realizing it or even thinking about it if you have used a red dot on your firearm (e.g. a 2 MOA dot is ~ 2 inches at 100 yards etc…) its all over the place.

        • Its been taught in every grade school in the world for 70 years.

          I’m 73 so that pretty much means that of the last 70 years of my life I spent a LOT of time learning various forms of math including “ratios” and in all of those years there was never a case where 48 was 98% of 50 no matter how you word it or how complicated you try to make it appear… I did not witness the original discussion so it must have involved one of the items I chose not to engage in so whatever the basis for the beginning of the argument it all comes down to one thing, on a math test if questioned “what percentage of 50 is 48” and you answer 98 you will be marked INCORRECT for that answer…

          (48 divided by 50) x 100% = 96%

        • Once again, I did not say that 48 was not 96% of 50.

          I said, simply put, in the data 50 represents the whole of the data and that proportion of the whole is 100%.

          You say you learned math, let me simplify this some and use ‘sets’ instead because you may know it by that, its the same thing. Its taught in every grade school math class starting 4th or 5th grade.

          First though, here is what proportion is:

          “pro·por·tion
          [prəˈpôrSH(ə)n]
          NOUN

          a part, share, or number considered in comparative relation to a whole”

          note: “comparative relation to a whole”

          OK, now to ‘sets’

          simply put, a ‘set’ is a collection. Those ‘things’ in the collection represent the whole (proportion) of the collection.

          If there are 10 apples in a basket (the ‘set’ collection ‘things’), 100% of the whole content (the whole ‘proportion’ of the collection) of the basket is represented by the 10 apples .

          I did not say as you keep assuming.

          if 50 is the ‘set’ collection ‘things’ (the entirely of the data used) then 50 represents the whole of the collection or in other words 100% (the whole ‘proportion’ of the collection). A proportion equation.

          How can people not know this? They use it every day in some form, they might call it different things or place it in a different context but everyone uses this every day in some form for some reason.

          Heck, the very foundations of most physics equations is built on ‘sets’. Einsteins famous E=mc² equation is built on a basic foundation of ‘sets’. Its around people every day in just about everything.

        • It’s the Ritalin and the disease is called ADHD.
          I couldn’t be around this guy, he argues basic mathematics.
          Imagine that in person, on here you can just ignore it.
          40 is Rainman 2

  7. “…unfortunately, if you get in a serious accident because you didn’t wear your seatbelt, our first responders will literally risk their lives to get to you and save your life.”

    Just as they would if I were driving a car with all the safety features known to the world (and those features do not prevent all injury/death). Just as they did long before safety features were a thing at all.

    The counter to me not having safety features is not denying medical health, but requiring me to reimburse the medical expenses that would not have been necessary if I did use safety devices. It is not the potential that needs addressing, but the result/outcome. And, of course, society has the authority to refuse to provide taxpayer funded medical assistance, fire or police departments.

      • “Sam I Am — so you’re another one of Defund the Police liberals. Nice.”

        How did you come to that conclusion?

        I am of the opinion that persons with gang tats, in any language or symbology, should be shot on sight (by police, or legal gun owners).

  8. In Belgium and Switzerland you go to place and kill yourself.
    It’s 100% legal and your reason can be: I don’t enjoy life anymore.
    You don’t have to have a terminal illness like in a few states in the US.
    You go through an interview with a couple of shrinks to see if some depression that can be cured.
    Even if it is you can still go through with it but they do have a cooling off period.
    The people who decide to do it usually go on trip of Europe and then come back.
    You drink a shake that’s loaded with Pentobarbital and lat down in a bed and die.
    They take your body, cremate it and spread your ashes.
    Nobody has to be informed, you can pay with paper currency.
    By flying over there from the US I think you have made your mind up.
    It isn’t some snap decision.

  9. I guess everyone has an opinion about suicide. For me, it’s “no thanks”. If things ever got that bad, I’m liquidating assets and hitting the road. I used to tell my co-workers, “If you find me dead in my recliner with a GSW to the head. A large caliber handgun in my lap and a suicide note on the kitchen table. Arrest my wife”. Seriously, a suicide is a hard thing to look at. The worst thing is that only those left behind suffer.

    • “If things got that bad”, there is a good chance that you would not be able to do it because you don’t have use of your limbs.
      Most people are scared that they would be too far gone to do the deed.
      My religion says not to do this, but I can understand why someone might want to do so.

    • The ones left behind suffer.
      For awhile anyway, there may be memories, they fade, unless constantly remembered but eventually the suffering subsides.

      • “The ones left behind suffer.
        For awhile anyway, there may be memories, they fade, unless constantly remembered but eventually the suffering subsides.”

        One can get beyond the death (whatever the cause) of someone they love, but I don’t think they ever “get over it.”

        There are still days I want to call my parents, and ask for advice, or just chat about nothing.

      • Some situations are worse than others. Leaving young children behind would be a very bad situation. You’re guaranteeing they’ll be at least a little off for the rest of their lives. That’s cruel.

  10. I have mixed feelings about this. Suicide and related issues have repeatedly touched me personally, and a fair number of my friends and colleagues.

    As long as it is voluntary, and does not involve government snooping and lists, I am 100% in favor of anything that would be helpful with this.

    If it helps keep their gun rights while dealing with their own short or long term crises then I say do it yesterday.

    However I also have a good enough understanding of the dark side of the system to know this could be used in very sinister ways with very few meaningful safeguards, and my own personal trust levels are not high.

    So, like the internet, it is a mixed blessing. Use it if you need it, but approach with caution.

    • “So, like the internet, it is a mixed blessing. Use it if you need it, but approach with caution.”

      Yes. It could be a stalking horse for a mandate to permit electronic tracking of all firearms.

  11. So what happens if you need your firearm in a hurry ??? Some thugboy is breaking into your abode do you ask him to wait so you can make a phone call ??? If someone sadly chooses to take their own life, they will find a way. Lockbox be damned….

    • Chris, you are exactly right. I’ve seen it done just about every way there is. You will not stop a determined individual. Even had one guy that had his wives (that wasn’t a typo) video his suicide so we wouldn’t charge them with homicide. There they all were on camera with audio. I watched it with my Major in C.I.D. At the scene. Victim was still sitting right there. Made me grit my teeth.

      • If someone is hell bent on killing themselves you aren’t going to stop them. It’s the same as someone who has no fear of death and wants to kill, you aren’t stopping them. Take away their means (a gun) and they will find another way.

        I had a friend who was having all kinds of substance abuse issues which led to serious problems with his wife sit on the railroad tracks and get plowed by a train.

        The ones who talk about it are usually just depressed, the ones who actually do it usually don’t say a word.

    • Chris,

      Speed of access really isn’t the point.

      People who really need this…probably really, really shouldn’t be left alone.

  12. This was hugely popular in the fifties. Our parents felt that they OWNED us. Starting in the 60’s women became increasingly rabid about ownership and control of others, citing their own mistreatment as a reason of the necessity of their position. Now they are Licensed To Kill their own offspring…
    Also this CONTROL of others demands NO DIRECT INVOLVEMENT. A liar can invoke “Red Flag” privilege with knowing no more about you than the correct spelling of your name!
    They are not even constrained to reside in the same state as you, they just need to invent a “paper case” against you. It’s been happening for decades already.
    Swaying a local judge in my town required only big ta ta’s, a low neckline and sweet perfume. He swallowed lies like a trout savored a well tied fly. And rendered judgement!
    Look at the Veteran’s side. My worst nightmares used to be me running through a barren (WWI looking) landscape, being chased by a mortar team. With an empty weapon. Only a 70% PTSD award, but believe me, I’d rather not have it. A sidearm is the only, last and most personal defense I have against the realities of modern life.
    Now you want to take a sidearm away from a combat Veteran. One who earned the right to have it’s protective qualities in the most difficult way possible to earn that right.
    You want to rip it out of their hands, lock it up and hold onto the key?
    Psychotic Unicorn Riding IDIOTS…

  13. Vet: “I’m having thoughts about suicide. I need help, can you help me?”

    DC Project: “There’s an app for that. Download this app and lock up your gun in this.”

    Vet: “I was thinking about a drug overdose like over 100,000 people do each year.”

    DC Project: “We don’t have an app for that.”

    Vet: “Well, what if I were to try hanging?”

    DC Project: “We don’t have an app for that.”

    Vet: “But I need help. Can you help?”

    DC Project: “We don’t actually have an app for that. But here’s a phone number.”

    Vet (later): “hmmm…I wonder how high that building is?”

    Most veterans, overall, tend to ‘stay on mission’. When they say they need help they need help then or they are going to stay on mission, they are dealing with mental illness and they do not need an app or locking something up.

        • I’m not wrong. That’s what irritates him.

          Its a common anti-gun tactic, troll around pro2A/pro-gun comment sections attacking various commenters when they start posting the reality that contradicts the anti-gun narrative. ‘Innocent Bystander’ (AKA Miner49er), like daican, doesn’t realize the false logic ‘correlation=causation’ foundation of the linked study, its a common anti-gun foundation for their studies.

      • You are sounding more like Dacian. One of his alternate personalities? Or are you also a member of his antifa troop?

        • Innocent Bystander’ (AKA Miner49er) is just another version of dacian.

          all three of them have the same underlying confirmation bias ‘blindness’, exactly the same and all three try to push the same anti-gun agenda message based on false information, false logic coorelation=causation, and emotion over fact.

      • IB, 40 posted a satirical conversation, and the context in my laymen’s experience is correct.

        Three of my fellow soldiers died by suicide and not one of the 3 used a firearm. Carbon monoxide for two and an intentional OD by the third.

        All three decided what they were going to do and how. Two had seen VA shrinks and still carried out the mission they set for themselves. One had seemed like he was shaking it off, working out his issues and seemed happier and more involved in life. He had made plans with some people for a vacation and the day before he cancelled his part saying he had some things to take care of. The next day he was found in the garage.

        I know two of them for sure had safes full of firearms, yet they chose other ways.

        Anytime I hear correlation and causation arguments I take pause. The real issue is being overlooked, intentionally my opinion, and ignoring the real issues does not help solve them.

      • @Innocent Bystander (AKA Miner49er)

        “ok Dr. Booger, expert in suicide. degree from Keyboard University.”

        For your growing list of subjects you don’t understand, we can add parody and satirical comment.

  14. @Innocent Bystander
    “Jethro — I just am impressed someone around here actually backs up their posts with a fact or two instead of gas-bagging like they are experts on every subject.”

    I comment here, often. I do not “gasbag.” I orate, pontificate, inflate, conflate, procrastinate, debilitate, regurgitate, bloviate, obfuscate, but I never “gasbag”.

    • It’s only when you vociferate that you become obnoxious, Sam.

      Also, as a side note, this (being the handle you’re replying to) is exactly why I argue to ignore trolls. If you don’t, you’ll get more of them. The same person with multiple accounts or they’ll bring friends to the party.

      I know there’s a school of thought that trolls have to be opposed because misinformation or something. It doesn’t work that way. Responses are encouragement to them, you’ll just breed more commenting and eventually more trolls. It’s been that way since the 1990’s, I’m really not sure how people haven’t figured this out yet.

      Put your energy into something more constructive like caliber warz. Which, yes, is more constructive than replying to trolls. This isn’t a reflection of how useful caliber warz are, but rather a reflection of how completely fucking counter productive replying to trolls is.

      • “It’s only when you vociferate that you become obnoxious, Sam.”

        Haven’t mastered that skill, yet, but sounds like fun.

        “Also, as a side note, this (being the handle you’re replying to) is exactly why I argue to ignore trolls.”

        I judiciously respond to the known trolls, and very rarely. My list of offenders is robust.

  15. “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”

    C.S. Lewis

  16. I’ve known a few guy’s who killed themselves. I don’t wish the aftermath on ANYONE. Eternity is a long time…

  17. Am I the only one who remembers the VA was the same agency that was finding people mentally incompetent because they had someone else manage their benefits then turned around and gave that list to the FBI to included into NICS.

    while I never want to attend another funeral for one of my brothers or sisters in arms who took their own life. I’m not sure I trust the VA not to weaponize this program.

  18. Do everything you can to promote mental illness/limit care and then offer yet another yoke as the solution to the problem you created.

    Typical of .gov work. Schools, gun laws, the VA, ATF, FBI and most of the rest create problems so they can offer solutions that, as it jUsT sO hApPeNZ, are an excuse for bigger budgets and more power for the agency that created the problem in the first place.

    • A very large chunk of government spending is a quasi legal, but always unethical, money laundering operation. Is it weird that every time our country experiences an “emergency” the solution (excuse) is to spend a bunch of money? The even weirder part is afterwards when you notice the rich got richer while the rest of the country became poorer. It’s funny how that always works out.

      P.S. Have you heard the latest talking point regarding the war? It’s going to save us money. No kidding. My jaw about hit the floor. I guess “protecting democracy” is losing steam, and this played well with the focus groups. Hearing them say investment is just as scary as hearing them say bipartisanship.

      • Yeah, I heard that talking point. I’m unsurprised.

        These people will say, quite literally, anything they think gets them power in the moment even if it is mutually exclusive of whatever their previous sentence was.

        The situation in Ukraine is becoming increasingly worrisome to me because it seems clear to me that it’s basically two LD kids fighting each other until someone drops and no one knows how to break it up. Mostly that’s because it’s my observation that pretty much anything you hear from anyone about it is bullshit designed to serve someone else’s interest, yet unless it’s all green screened the whole thing’s a bloodbath.

        The people who claim “Ukraine is losing” are claiming 250K Ukrainian casualties. I rate that as near impossible. At the beginning of this war the Ukes had 700K in their entire military. 35.7% overall casualties and they’d have basically ceased to be as a fighting force. They’d have nothing but cooks, medics and logi guys left.

        Then there are those claiming that Russia is losing as it gains ground, slowly, and unevenly. Hrmmm.

        But what to make of the conscription going on in Russia? WTF do they need 500K more troops for if they’re winning? Yet we also have reports of the Ukes rounding up old men to send to the front.

        My best guess is that this a is a complete meat grinder that is chewing up both sides in ways neither wants to admit but that neither side has actually taken the shattering casualties reported. You’ve basically got a Western Front circa 1917 situation going on and both sides are looking for that new version of combined arms that breaks the stalemate.

        Which doesn’t explain why both sides would appear to be holding back on throwing really heavy punches (short of nukes).

        And then there’s the whole Moldova thing. I pondered that while sitting a funeral the other day, seeing as I did write a lengthy analysis paper on the country’s relationship to Russia back in 2009. The term “shitshow” springs to mind.

        More and more I suspect that Peter Zeihan is probably the closest to on target with geopolitical analysis on the macro scale. That’s fucking terrifying in a lot of ways because I don’t think he quite recognizes what it actually means in the medium term. Unlike welding I don’t think you can worry about the edges and let the center sort itself out on that one.

        But, whatever. I’m far more concerned about things in this country right now and, at least for the immediate, I think the talk of nukes is greatly overplayed.

        • Here’s what we do know. A country is being destroyed, millions of people have been displaced, and a bunch of people have been killed with no end in sight. But it’s all good because this is going to save us money. They’re always trying to save money. Who believes that?

        • “A country is being destroyed, millions of people have been displaced”

          Welcome to the last 200 years of human history. This isn’t really an anomaly. I often reference the Algerian War of Independence, aka, a French colony’s own little civil war. The vast majority of people have no knowledge of this at all.

          That war, again, almost forgotten, killed several hundred thousand and displaced at least three million in a small North African country back when you had late 1950’s level populations, meaning that if you scaled it up to today’s sort of percentages you’re talking 4-9x on each number. At least 1.5 million dead and 12 million displaced.

          “They’re always trying to save money. Who believes that?”

          No one believes that. But nearly no one extrapolates that out to other issues that are arguably of equal or greater importance.

          Well… actually, I do believe that in another space. But on an entirely different topic that would be, uh, shall we say “extremely divisive” to discuss. The tie that binds the two being that dead people don’t incur a lot of costs and the costs they do represent are a one time thing. Also, under our tax code they can be profitable for .gov and their cronies.

  19. No one cares about the turtles that dash in front of cars committing suicide.
    Why turtle why?
    I’ve a paralyzed friend and the last time we spoke he begged me to off him. ” Lifes not worth living like this man, it’s a hell I dont want. Cant you take your .44 and help me, man. I’d do it for you brother.”
    Oh hang in there, you never know maybe a miracle will happen. (Like yeah right).
    A million dollars.

  20. @Dude
    “The cop said that person’s body moving through the car during the accident was responsible for killing another one of the passengers.”

    Yes, in life there will always be a one off.

    As a driver, it was my responsibility to see to the safety of others. Alone, it was my responsibility to see to myself. I chose seatbelts and air bags because I learned from my flying experience that safety is job 1. I chose to apply safety standards in my private vehicles; I was not mandated.

  21. @strych9
    “On the internet it’s as easy as hitting the capslock key.”

    Great. Will try to catch up, and practice the skill.

  22. If anyone is under the illusion that this “feel good” program will help, I’ll help spell it out.
    Salaries and admin. $360k
    Research and marketing 240k
    Office space 80k
    Expenses 240k
    Misc. 30k
    Funds available 50k

    As a good friend of a veteran who chose suicide by handgun, I can at least tell you the best option is long term v.a. Care and contact.
    The v.a. really did an excellent short term job, as did his employer and friends and family.
    Depression was the cause

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