“Bump stocks turn semiautomatic weapons into fully automatic weapons,” South Carolina Congressman Trey Gowdy pronounced on CBS Face the Nation [below]. “Fully automatic weapons are already illegal, so I am fine with doing away with any instrumentality that converts a semiautomatic to a fully automatic.” Wait. What?
Even our pro-gun politicians think that machine guns are illegal? They’re not.
Sure there’s a lot of paperwork involved in purchasing a machine gun. And yes, federal law “bars private individuals from transferring or acquiring machine guns except those lawfully possessed and registered before May 19, 1986.” Which makes them really expensive. But you can legally buy one.
And it’s also true that a bump fire stock does NOT convert a semi-automatic rifle (one shot per trigger squeeze) to fully automatic fire (one trigger press, multiple shots).
And while we’re examining the truth about guns, I don’t think Trey Gowdy is a particularly compelling pro-gun rights pol. But then who is? Seriously. Who?
We are up shit Creek without a paddle.
Another Congress critter that doesn’t know what the laws are.
Sad.
With a good optic and good ammo, the 16 S is a sub – moa rifle. So is a SCAR 17.
“A man who’s not bothered by his GLOCK’s ultimate accuracy. A polymer pistol’s for punching holes in perps, not paper. Which is something he doesn’t do very often. Target shoot, that is. But then who does?”
Not exactly fair. Glocks are fine for target shooting, but it is true that many shooters are not up to this particular challenge. That said, some are.
http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/G17-4-HST.jpg
Well, he just accused a million or so gun owners of a felony; don’t let the door hit you, Trey. And get a better haircut. And screw the NRA on thus issue.
Gowdy’s is not a reassuring statement.
At the same time, bump stocks are not the hill that I want to die on.
And yet, everyone who has been in this fight has seen the incrementalism of our opponents.
What way out of this conundrum? Perhaps a Reagan quote.
“The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally – not a 20 percent traitor.”
Call me mad, I actually love glock ergonomics. I can lock a Glock into a stronger two handed grip than I can with any supposedly more-ergonomic gun. There is just something about how the shape aligns with the bones in my hands that allows me to lock it down and keep it flat and on-target while shooting.
Also, another good reason to CARRY a Glock: every one of them is notable for being the most size-efficient gun in their class. That is, (1) for guns of the same barrel length, Glocks have as low or lower overall length than any competing guns. (2) For guns of the same magazine capacity, Glocks have as low or lower overall height than any competing guns. (3) For double stack guns, Glocks have as low or lower -maximum- thickness, including the controls like the slide lock, compared to all competing guns. Many competing guns are thinner in the grip, some competing guns are thinner at the top of the slide, but when you compare maximum thickness vs maximum thickness, very few double stack guns are any thinner than Glocks.
We need more abortions in this society. It is a scientifically proven fact that the greater the number of abortions, the lower the number of defensive gun uses (because the criminals are aborted before they can even waste taxpayer resources at schools and then commit violent crimes against people).
Sounds a lot like my Sig P938 SAS.
I’d love to see a side-by-side comparison review, because they really are similar guns.
The 938 is one of my favorite guns. All around a good performer, and a good value. The Kimber Micro Raptor is, in general, finished and adorned better. It is also a bit more precise compared to the 938s that I have shot.
Do note that, when compared with the 938 with night sights, such as the Sig 938 Nightmare, the MSRP is practically identical.
Robert, as a fellow Jew you should be more familiar with Israel. Teachers are not armed in Israel. Relatively few people are armed in Israel.
Israel has universal conscription so that they can mobilize a big enough army if they get into a real war. When they’re not in a real war, which is 99.9% of the time, they have way too many soldiers. So what they do with lots of the soldiers is have them stand guard in the tourist areas as a show of force and first response force. So when you go to Israel as a tourist, it looks like everyone is armed, but thats only because they station so many of their overplentiful soldiers at all the biggest tourist destinations.
Most Israelis don’t even have the right to own a gun. You must apply, you must have a valid security reason to own a gun and they often turn people down who aren’t directly threatened, you must go to a shrink and have a psychiatric evaluation, and only then are you allowed to buy a gun. Besides that, the only class of non-active-military people who have wide gun ownership rights are former military officers discharged in good standing.
It not just RINO republicans.
Gun owners on TTAG with years of history making comments on this web site supported a bump stock ban after the Vas Legas massacre.
You don’t have to have an AR15. You can use the hi point carbine a husband gave his wife. She used it to defend herself and their four children when the father was away on business.
But if you can afford an AR15, then buy one. Steven Williford used his to stop a church attack in Texas.
If you can afford a machine gun then buy one. I can’t afford a machine gun.
So I will be purchasing a bump stock for my AR15 that I bought back in November 2017, before the “pro gun” rich white people who have guns their grandfather gave them, ban bump stocks.
Damn straight Chris. This means to me that they hadn’t fell on a conclusion for a top tier axiom, that freedom is the greater goal. These people, simply aren’t about freedom. They like guns, sure. Freedom? Not so much. If you want to ban bump stocks because you fear what your fellow man “might” do with them, then you are not about freedom. I’m all about maximizing freedom and responsibility. When you maximize responsibility, you maximize freedom. Because your freedom is my responsibility. Because I can vote our freedom away, and because the risks involved in allowing you freedom, is mine. The risk falls on me. So I have to be responsible in burdening the risk and be tolerant of that risk, so that you, can have that freedom. And that is not what these commenters are about. They are gun people that see risk, not freedom.
Exactly. Machine guns should be legal. But machine gun owners were purchased by congress. Congress said, “we will grandfather these in for you, machine gun owners, so you will not complain about our new law that bans their manufacture for civilians.” And sure enough, it passed, with few complaints.
Bump stocks destroy accuracy, and tend make an otherwise perfectly good firearm less reliable, but they aren’t in and of themselves “machine guns”, any more than my belt loops are.
As far as we know, Paddock didn’t personally use machine guns (legal or illegal) in his Vegas shooting spree, so associating ‘machine guns’ with the carnage created is fundamentally dishonest and misleading.
Goudy should be ashamed of himself for being duped into perpetuating leftist disinformation, and displaying his woeful and inexcusable ignorance with regard to the very statutes and regulations upon which he is commenting.
Why do I feel like our rights are being eroded right from under us?
What hill are we willing to die on? Sure, I think bump stocks are stupid, pointless and a waste of money and ammo but if we don’t make a stand what will be next after a Bump stock ban. Ban AR-15 style weapons, or registration of them AND 30rd magazines?
Back ground check to buy ammo? It will never stop. This is a Tug-of-war and our side is being pulled into the mud. Rhinos are holding the rope but they ain’t even pulling! the nra keep moving the finish/loser line closer to us. We’re about to get jerked into the mud!
Some people are already Instant felons because they owned a LEGAL bump stock.
Keep moving the goal post.
Trump supporters all support Russia over the US at this point.
What is the source of the homicide rate chart from 1800s – 2010? I need to know, someone is asking me and I want the source data. Regards. T.
Another reason to debate them……you help other Pro Gun people sharpen their arguments, find more data, and learn what the anti gunners are up to….the most noticeable thing we all have to be aware of…..anti gunners now are calling for banning all semi automatics……and they are calling guns “Weapons of War,” preparing the gun control battlefield for future battles when they get the chance to come for the other types of rifle and pistol…
Doesn’t matter. They’re winning. Now because of communist sellouts like Cornyn, Grassley and trump veterans and people who have had hard times in their lives or even kids diagnosed with ADHD (by design) will be barred from owning guns, and you people who see “mentally ill” people (which is an overly broad term by design and will be extrapolated to include those who disagree with the left) as subhuman scum who need to be locked up forever even for those who never committed a crime.
I’ve never met a gun control advocate. I do run into people who are pro gun control because they believe what the gun control advocates say.
I have a friend who I have known for a couple of years now. He used words like “common sense” when I met him. He doesn’t anymore. He now claims to be “open minded” about the issue. I think I’ve got him to at least question his beliefs somewhere in the dark recesses of his subconscious.
Arguing with him has led me to be more informed about the gun policy argument. Every hypothetical “common sense” argument he has made that I wasn’t informed about has turned out to be counter factual, and now I know that.
Common sense is just what the average person would believe without thinking or examining an issue. Using common sense solutions to societal problems before rigorously examining them is a bad idea. Common sense solutions are only appropriate when the costs of being wrong are lower than the costs of searching for the truth of the situation. This is never the case with policy. It’s usually fine when assuming the larger container of peanut butter is cheaper per ounce than the smaller one.
Just because you’re Part 135 doesn’t mean you have better pilots or better maintenance. Just look at Papillon Helicopter tour’s accident history.
I’ve carried a Glock before, and I’ll tell you what kind of man carries a Glock — the kind of man who doesn’t give a damn what anyone else thinks. Who couldn’t be bothered to care more than a fart as to what his gun looks like. It’s a tool. It goes bang. It had better go bang every time. And that’s it. End of discussion.
I used to carry a Glock. I switched to a Springfield for a couple of reasons (more capacity in a better size, and a grip safety to avoid the extraordinarily rare “Glock leg.” Y’know what? Mine says “Grip Zone” on it — and I still could not give half a f*** as to what anyone else thinks about that.
Cruz, he should be hung from the neck until dead at 12 pm on the court house lawn. It’s such a joke, an alcohol swab before a lethal injection. They can’t even dust somebody with out being politically correct
You know what you never see:
A report about how all these gun owners with guns in their homes are killed en mass or individually for that matter by criminals or mentally disturbed individuals.
FACT: the innocents being slaughtered are without firearm protection
FACT: Guns save lives. Multitudes more than they take. Every. Single. Day!
I carry this gun every day. In a pocket holster, OWB or IWB … it is a winner!
I saw that TOO barnwt…thought I hallucinated except saw it on fakebook😄
Star BM all steel, 9mm, feeds everything from fmj to ashtrays, shoots upside down, two finger hold so this Kimber don’t impress.
Funny how they say the law in IL is driving this but they don’t actually give any references or details.
They’re lying.
Stuff like this annoys me about TTAG. Instead of just assuming a change in policy is a reaction to a mass shooting, how about picking up a phone and calling the company for a comment? Don’t think that’s too unreasonable before you whip up the frenzied internet mob.
Neon flashlight? I think they meant Nebo and I would not bet my life on a Nebo flashlight. Cheap point of sale torch for a woman’s pocketbook.
Say what you will about Ted Nugent: his recent Facebook post is a grand slam homerun that EVERYONE needs to read.
Let’s all search Google for Ted’s recent Facebook post and make that the top search query on guns.
For reference here are the first few sentences of Ted’s post:
Can we stop using the phrase “gun control” and start using the phrase “gun-owner control“?
If they March on the 14th they don’t get to March in their graduation ceremony. There have to be consequences for illegal actions. Period.
Honestly, the .357 performance is lackluster in that ammo. Looking at Buffalo Bore they get 1485fps out of a 158gr .357 Magnum in a 4″ L frame. The Hornady stuff is weak sauce. Looking at Buffalo Bore’s 10mm they rate their 155gr at 1275fps out of a 3.8″ Glock. Probably the same as yours. The hottest stuff I can find for Underwood in terms of it being shot in a 30 second google search is 1448fps from a 4.5″ gun. Overall from a ballistics stand point they’re pretty evenly matched, and I wouldn’t feel under armed against 2 legged critters with either as well as a huge preponderance of 4 legged ones at threat distances. This also says nothing about barrel length either; Where you’ll end up finding the weakness of 10mm to .357 magnum is as the barrel length goes up due to running powders like H110/296 with a long barrel.
Where 10mm falls apart from me is I’ve known a person or two to blow them up, and the brass life seems to suck. Yeah the caliber, capacity and fast reloads are awesome but it seems like a lot of guns are plagued with reliability issues in this caliber. It also says little of the versatility in a .357 magnum hand gun and being able to shoot powder puff .38s to full bore 200gr slugs.
The biggest takeaways here are we are blessed by a burden of awesome choices, and check ammo manufacturers carefully because not all rounds by the same maker are created equally.
Of the three? The 26.
It’s not that much more difficult to conceal (with the proper attire) and it will accept magazines from its larger brothers, Glock 19 and 17. All things being equal, why not give yourself options with a plug-and-play 15 or 17 round factory magazine on your hip, in your pocket etc.