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As TTAG has reported, there’s been a spate of out-of-state concealed carry weapons (CCW) permit holders getting their pee-pee whacked by The Big Apple. The NYPD has arrested gun owners who carry legally in their home 10-40, but fell afoul of NYC’s restrictive gun laws (i.e., only cops, the Mayor and Donald Trump are allowed to carry a concealed firearm legally). Seems that the mainstream media has finally cottoned-on to the story, which pits nice stupid people against gun grabbing bureaucrats gone wild. The DA’s office is under even more pressure to make these cases go away. They will, but . . .

the arrogance, stupidity, unconstitutionality and unfairness of NYC’s gun laws will be with us for some time. Citizen’s Crime Commission? High cap mag ban, interstate illegal gun strike force (ATF redux) and microstamping. Quel surprise.

Meanwhile, H.R.822 – National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011 would increase the pressure by a factor of ten. “You mean someone from Tennessee can carry in New York City, but a native can’t?” What are the odds? [h/t Bryan]

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  1. Are people still crying over the fact that they’re too stupid to check reciprocity laws before crossing state lines? Or any laws regarding when and where you can carry firearms in NY?

    Because you know… Even in states that do recognise your permit, you have to abide by their laws regarding where you are allowed to carry…

    • Are people still apparently ignorant of the fact that the constitution does not grant the states the right to legislate the bearing of arms out of existence?

      • Yes, tell that to the NYC cops as they haul you away.

        Am I saying these laws are right? No… I’m saying if you’d like to avoid jail and/or fines, you’ll take 30 seconds to hop on your smart phone and google “ccw reciprocity”.

        • Right turns on red lights, legal almost everywhere, are illegal in New York City except where specifically permitted. Hundreds of out-of-town drivers get ticketed for that particular violation every month. That’s New York.

          We’re educated when it comes to reciprocity. We know the rules, or at least where to find them. But there are at least 20,000 gun laws, and nobody knows all of them. It’s just too easy to screw up, which is what the politicians and LEOs want.

      • Actually, up until the McDonald decision a couple of years ago, the 2nd amendment in the Bill of Rights did not apply to states. The Bill of Rights originally only restrained the Federal end of things up until the passage of the 14th, followed by SCOTUS selectively ‘incorporating’ Federal amendments restraining state power. Look up Federalism and Incorporation for more.

        6 States have no 2nd protection within their state constitution. CA, my state, could have banned EVERY firearm and it would have been legal. That is, up until the McDonald decision.

        Now if you had a 2nd in your state Constitution, you’ve had some protection since your state constitution was ratified. Some of us haven’t been so lucky

      • Really? Where in the Constitution does it say this?
        Let me see what an uneder-educated gun grabber would confuse in the Constitution to think the states can legislate away the Second Amendment.
        My guess is the 10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

        The problem with your very faulty thinking is the 2nd Amendment delegates the Right to Bear Arms to the United States. Therefore, it is not reserved to the states.
        Learn to read before you speak.

        • Scott, I hope your response isn’t directed at me. I wasn’t stuttering in what I wrote. Any 1st year law students could tell you the same. The Constitution and Bill of Rights are magnificent documents but how they mesh together may have you a little confused.

          “…. uneder-educated gun grabber would confuse in the Constitution to think the states can legislate away the Second Amendment.”

          Actually, up until the McDonald decision States without a 2A amendment within their own state constitutions could indeed legislate it away. As in the 2nd didn’t apply to states; only restraining federal power. Those are facts, not conjecture.

          BTW – What makes you think the Bill of Rights originally applied restraining state power? Answer. It didn’t.

          When the 14th amendment came along 100 years later, that changed. Since that time, a bunch of amendments have been ‘selectively incorporated’ though the 14th to restrain states. The 1st among others were brought into the fold and hashed out over the last 100 years. The 2nd just a few years ago; its scope yet to be determined.

          So ask yourself, why can’t you demand a jury trial for traffic tickets? Because that portion of the BoR has never been incorporated.

          Can states quarter non federal, military units in your home? Answer. Outside of the 2nd circuit, states can. The 3rd amendment has yet to be incorporated against the states.

          “The problem with your very faulty thinking…”

          There’s no faulty thinking here. Local and state restrictions stand because the courts haven’t hashed out the scope of the 2A civil liberty recognized by the McDonald decision. That takes time, money, a favorable SCOTUS, and winning court cases. It tool 50-60 years to hash out the 1st amendment issues thereby restraining states (things we take for granted now). Probably take as long to hash out 2A issues before many local and state ordinances are gone. Until then, people must educate themselves on the laws and how they differ whenever they travel.

  2. When I hear the stories about the 3 or 4 people being arrested this is my first impression. These people are a new type of CCW permit holder that we haven’t seen much of before. They are moms and businessmen who aren’t gun enthusiasts and seem more ‘middle America’ than myself and every other permit holder I know. As more and more people like them learn about CCW permits, take an interest and get one, the more these kinds of stories will show up. Yes they are pretty stupid but its not often that good people are faced with minimum mandatory prison sentences for not knowing the law. Usually a persons morals will keep them out of trouble, and what they did isn’t morally wrong, in fact its their right so its easier to understand what they did.

  3. While it’s a bad idea not to check local laws and make assumptions about CCW reciprocity I would characterize these offenders more as civil rights pioneers. This is the 21st century equivalent of civil disobedience insofar as the Supreme Law of the Land allows possession of firearms by the people. It is having the effect of questioning the validity of these laws which are decidedly unconstitutional given recent SCOTUS decisions. The last thing Mikey and the NYPD want is a conviction that ends up on the Docket in DC which would most likely end their special rules in NYC.
    Then they would have to figure out how to disarm criminals and keep them locked up instead. It’s a lot easier to prosecute a nurse from Tenn. than a drug dealer with 20 arrests who jumps bail. At least it seems to be for them.

    • Listen, GS, the last thing I want to see is for this marine to go to jail. I agree totally with his lawyer and I’d bet in the end he gets a slap on the wrist.

      What I object to is Robert’s blaming the laws of NY instead of the guy who broke them.

      • It’s absolutely the guy’s fault for thinking that NYC follows the US Constitution and therefore the 2nd Amendment.

      • Mikeb, don’t you believe in rule of law? Granted, there are some cases where a slap on the wrist is appropriate. But we don’t want prosecutors and judges arbitrarily deciding when that is- the law should specify the circumstances under which a lesser penalty is appropriate, as is the case with almost every other law on the books. If a law is written so that the only way to serve justice is to IGNORE the law that says the marine should go to jail, then plainly it needs to be rewritten.

        • Judges always have a sentencing margin within which to work. In a case like this, when the guy shows that he’s not smuggling guns into The City go sell them at a profit, he goes home with a fine. That in no way undermines the “rule of law.”

          Now, if I were in charge, he’d also surrender his gun rights. The one-strike-you’re-out rule MUST be upheld.

  4. The Constitution has been long ignored by certain policy makers. They seem to enforce to amendments they agree with and belittle the others. This is not a secret. If these individuals who have been arrested for illegally carrying knew what the law was and CHOSE to ignore it and carry anyway, more power to them. But it seems these folks were ignorant of the law as it is enforced. Ignorance of the law is not something we should defend while we are attempting to change the law.
    A person cannot practice Civil Disobedence if they are ignorant of the law. A law abiding citizen with a CCW permit, or who open carries, should be held to the standard of KNOWING the laws of the land. It is a choice we make to follow the law. Whether we agree with them or not.

  5. As has been said, ignorance of the law can’t be counted as civil disobedience. If we want civil disobedience, a large group of people should open carry and march through the streets. Of course, knowing the NYPD, that just might end in another Boston Massacre, but still.

    • It would take a lot of stones to practice civil disobedience when protestors would be looking at 3.5 years in Dannemora or Green Haven, two of New York’s most spectacular prison sh!tholes. And they’d be doing that trip-and-a-half only if they survived the initial encounter with New York’s Finest and didn’t wind up with plunger handles shoved up their collective a$$es.

      BTW, Abner Louima, who took one for the team, was granted his CCW in an act of magnificent municipal munificence. I guess that’s what it takes in Mayor Blamebag’s urban paradise.

  6. “…shall not be infringed,” means what? The “Fully Incorporated” into the 14th Amendment means what? In plain language: The States must not and cannot “bite away” Our Rights to “…keep and bear arms” unless to keep them from being “borne” by Felons and people that are “mentally challenged” which is reasonable. The 14th Amendment says that if you are a Citizen of a State and “move about” into another State, you enjoy the “Rights” enumerated in the US Constitution and its Amendments within ALL of the States, i.e., if one has a license to drive in NY and he moves around to say PA, or Ohio, that “privelege of Citizenship” MUST be honored in the deal–Federal Law, especially the Bill of Rights, once incorporated, are the SUPREME Law of the Land. If one is married, legally, in one State, he, or she, or he and he, or he, she LEGALLY married to whatever gender, is married everywhere within the USA. The SCOTUS did not Selectively Incorporate the 2d into the 14th; it FULLY INCORPORATED the two Rights. All it is going to take is for one of the persons being denied his-or-her Rights to sue both the arresting officer, Bloomberg, the DA under 42 USC Section 1983 and get some damages AS INDIVIDUALS for “Acting outside the scope of their duties by violating the Constitutional Rights of ,” which is “necessarily a fact, as the Constitution is clear that government officials are only granted Qualified Immunity for violating any Citizen’s Constitutional Rights “…to keep and bear arms for self defense,” especially if anyone has been granted a Carry Permit from another State. Don’t believe me? Call the ACLU and ask them.

    • ““…shall not be infringed,” means what?”

      Doesn’t seem to mean much of anything really. Scalia in the Heller decision pretty much discarded that concept. Tell you what, find any SCOTUS or circuit opinion where the question of ‘shall not be infringed’ has been addressed. I’d wager its never been a question before the court.

      “if one has a license to drive in NY and he moves around to say PA, or Ohio, that “privelege of Citizenship” MUST be honored in the deal–Federal Law…”

      Hold on there chief. Driving isn’t a ‘negative’ right protected under our constitution but that gets into ‘negative vs positive’ rights which as a discussion topic is better left elsewhere. Driving, like traveling freely is a ‘positive right.’ And i think what you’re alluding to is with regards to the P&I clause of the 14th (Privilege and Immunity) which was gutted by the Slaughterhouse cases. By the way, NOTHING must be honored. All incorporation did you us was give us the legal framework to limiting state/local power. Its a beginning; let the bull dozing commence!

      Got some reading for you. It might be beneficial to others. The following books are published by the NRA. The Second Amendment Primer, DC vs Heller: An Anatomy, and The Adoption of the 14th Amendment by Flack. If anyone wants to understand how the Constitution/Bill of Rights/Federalism works, the books will be a nice intro.

      • IF One has a “permit” issued in ANY State to CCW, that permission is valid in ALL of the (as BHO, Jr., says) 57 states as the “Right” is a “Right of Citizenship” as in FUNDAMENTAL and must be enforcable against the States…”We HOLD that the 2d Amendment right is FULLY applicable to the States,” and described this RIGHT is not in a “watered-down right,” or even eligible for “selective enforcement” by the States by the “Third-Tier of Government” (Art III Courts), as the 14th Amendment must be viewed as a privelege and fundamental right of American Citizenship–there are to be NO BORDERS to Freedom within the (57) States…if a Civil Right is LEGAL in TN, or FL, it is, and has to be LEGAL everywhere, for the Bill of Rights, after being FULLY INCORPORATED as was the 2d Amendment, to have any force at all. This is a “Plain Language” Reading that is REQUIRED by the Bill of Rights authors, and the “Right to keep and bear arms cannot be Infringed.”

        • 1. You’re rambling without paragraphs and complete thoughts so its hard to respond to you.

          2. You don’t understand how the Constitution works so while i’d like to agree with your sentiment, much of what you’ve written just isn’t grounded in reality. Not to be condescending, but its why I’ve given you the reading assignments noted above. If you want to be passionate about the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and the 2nd, great. Try to learn how they work

          BTW – There is no immediate reversal of state/local laws that were in effect before McDonald decision. Each must be challenged for them to become nullified.

  7. American Jurisprudence: 2d Edition, Section 177, Late 2d Edition, Section 256: “States can only add-to your Bill of Rights Federal Constitutional Rights…they cannot legislate laws that restrict these Rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. No One is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it. Constitutional Rights are only validated when enforced. When Right is incorporated it is BINDING and cannot restrict.” This is now 2015–I shall add-to my points until all are properly informed.

  8. The 10th Amendment nullification theory not applicable. State Law CANNOT trump Federal Constitutional Right. Ask Professor “Zero” about that, or Rahm Emanuel, or brother Izzy.

    • Virginia today effective 1 Feb 17 will nullify their CCW Reciprocity Agreement with 28 other States…VA’s democrat AG says it is to protect (his) citizens from less-intelligent other States that VA agreed to honor made by his republican counterparts in previous administrations. I see McAwful’s prints all over this. ALL agreements have to be legislated, especiallyif they are nullified; this moron is NOT a King and cannot rule by Fiat, especially since the “fully applicable” Incorporation of the 14th Amendment of this Civil Right to “…keep and bear arms,” for self-defense, a “central component of the 2d Amendment.” We, the People, of these United States have e Right to Travel, Right to Marry any sex, Right to self-defense, and the States cannot RESTRICT any Right that has been licensed in another State–PERIOD!!!


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