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courtesy the

CNN is reporting that a man with a “large” shotgun has opened fire inside the U.S. Navy Yard, which is a secure facility in Washington, D.C. on the southwest side of the city, and there are people injured. The specific location is the “Naval Sea System Command HQ,” which is a supposedly secure facility which handles classified information. FYI, according to the NISPOM, no firearms are allowed within a secure environment unless possessed by a law enforcement officer. In other words, this is the most secure gun-free zone that has ever been setup. And yet, that doesn’t seemed to have stopped this shooter from carrying out his attack.

[UPDATE 10:25 Eastern] NBC is saying that 12 people were shot, of which 4 were killed in the attack. Reports are coming in that it may have been an AR-15 instead of a shotgun, but take that with a grain of salt. Reports also seem to indicate that the attacker has either been killed or captured at this time.

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  1. I have never heard (until now) a reference to a shotgun being “large”!

    Anyway, I’m sure the shooter is/was taking uncle joe’s advice, no?

  2. It’s a secure government facility. Shotguns are sometimes used to secure these places. Maybe a disgruntled employee?

    What if the only person legally allowed to have a gun on site is the one that snaps and starts shooting?

    • This is the thought process of the gun control folks who are against arming the schools.

      They simply come to the exact opposite conclusion we do.

  3. Large = 12 gague, medium = 20 gauge, small = .410, XL = 10 gauge.

    I think…It makes more sense than tall vs. venti.

  4. Security areas only accomplish two outcomes:
    (1) They usually stop a 2 bit punk from walking into a secure area.
    (2) They guarantee that a determined criminal will be the only armed person within the “secure” area — which means a lot of injured/dead victims.

    Getting a firearm into a secured area is as simple as being a security screener or coercing a security screener. (Options for coercing a security screener include bribery, blackmail, and a credible death threat to the screener and/or the screener’s family.) A determined criminal could also smuggle a firearm into a secured area, either as a complete unit or in pieces. Finally, a determined criminal or group of criminals can simply overwhelm honest security screeners and gain entry into a secured area.

    I personally avoid all “secure areas” because I know they are not secured at all.

    • My favorite way to demonstrate that secure areas are not secure is to consider football stadiums. Recently, most if not all stadiums prohibit carrying anything into the stadium (other than a small clear plastic bag) and often there are metal detectors at all of the entrances. Plus the stadiums have high walls and limited entrances. That should do the trick, right?

      Wrong. Do the stadiums inspect every container that ever enters the stadium at all times? Do they inspect the toolboxes and equipment containers that maintenance workers bring in on non-game days? Do they inspect the contents of every food shipment brought in on non-game days? Do they open 5 gallon pickle buckets and strain the contents for a submerged handgun? Do they X-ray 5 gallon stainless steel soda kegs for hidden firearms? Do they monitor the exterior walls 24/7 to make sure no one scales over the walls in the dead of night on a non-game day to hide a firearm somewhere inside the stadium? Do they have a way to catch and stop someone impersonating a law enforcement officer or security worker?

      There are other possibilities as well that I don’t even want to put in writing. I hope everyone gets the point. No one else is capable of guaranteeing your security, period.

      Oh, and there is a ginormous downside to “secure areas”. The two bit punks that couldn’t attack you inside will attack you on your way into or out of the secure area because they know for a fact that you will be unarmed!!!

  5. I hope that it doesn’t have one of those scary detachable magazines that Aunt Dianne has warned us about for so long.

    Just when I was hoping that Saiga prices would go down instead of up. πŸ™

    • yeah, when they say a “large shotgun”, that’s probably code for a 12 guage Saiga that has a high capacity detachable magazine (aka 10 rounds) with that “pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action”…. or maybe it was a Saiga 12 with the “traditional” stock, but has a “second grip that can be held by the non trigger hand” attached to a picatinny rail, or a muzzle “brake” (as the NY (un)SAFE act spells it). All those scary military features.

        • or one of the high capacity magazines that you throw out after you use it. Because if people keep shooting those high capacity magazines, eventually they supply will run out because they have to throw them out.

  6. I am glad to see that you guys are making fun of a situation that makes the rest of us gun owners look bad. Here is a *standing ovation* to you a$$holes.

    • Unfortunately, I think I agree. While my cynicism at yet *another* shooting is in full-swing, I think it’s a bit soon to start cracking jokes.

    • shawn,

      I don’t know who you are or what side you’re on, but I think you should realize that cynicism and sarcasm are merely natural responses to the typical wave of hysteria and panic among the hoplophobes. Also, a reasonably intelligent person not overcome by their base emotions would observe the paradox of a secure, ostensibly ‘gun-free’ zone and yet another shooting in same. Alas, the hoplophobes will never, ever understand or make the connection, no matter how many times they turn the screws (and they stripped the threads a long, long time ago). It’s just simply beyond them.


    • And yet the NBC article clearly states, “The military officials said that the gunman may have been armed with an AR-15, a military-style assault rifle”

      So @sshole, we are @ssholes for pointing out that anti-gunners will politicize, or the fact that they already did.

      • And you are still an a$$hole. I am not making any jokes about the situation and never will. I am on the side for gun owners who are not a$$holes and need to make joke of a life and death situation for people who want nothing else to do but work and support their family. It is not their fault that they work in a gun free zone. It goes for those who live CA or MD or any other gun crazy state who can not move.

  7. Please. If you feel the need to take responsibility for all these idiots that shoot people, be my guest. This guy makes himself and the Navy look bad, not us. Do you get worried about how your chevy looks when a drunk driver hits somebody in one?

    • Exactly.

      I once got into an argument with a guy who was offended that I owned “pit bull” type dogs. He yelled and screamed at me and strongly implied that I was responsible for the death of his family cat that was recently killed by one (loose, of course) in his neighborhood.

      I responded that because he drives a car on roads, I likewise blamed him for the death of my family cat that had just happened an hour before when someone carelessly ran her over right in front of our house as me and my children watched.

      That shut him up right quick.

    • It is not the shooter I am referring, it is all the jokes that people are making at the expense of those who died. It is a shame and looks bad on all gun owners. Hold your f’n tongue.

      • You are welcome to not read the comments should you find them unpalatable. Everyone here is not entitled to be unoffended. Telling others to comment in a way you find acceptable is as effective as others telling you the same.

        Have a day.

  8. Technically, being in DC, it’s a “secure” gun-free zone, inside a larger gun-free zone. Figures, after all the scary black rifle stuff (even though most of the Aurora casualties happened with a shotgun) shotguns are now going to be the big scary gun. CNN had some “expert” commenting on what makes a shotgun particularly deadly for these kinds of attacks.

    • Another factor to keep in mind: DC during the workday is home to several armed Federal police forces, in addition to the DC MPD. The area around the Navy Yard must look like the staging area for Operation Iraqui Freedom by now. Good luck to anyone wishing to drive anywhere in the District.

  9. I have been to that building. To enter the Navy Yard, you have to present an appropriate ID, either Active duty military or DOD civilian, or be on the daily access list, if youre a visiting civilian. To enter the building you have to present your ID again, or if you work there, swipe an access badge. There are facilities with in the building for handling classified material but the entire building is not a secure area. Most people that work in there are in acquisitions and contracts. They do government oversight on military contractors.

  10. Yes…the “no firearm” policy has worked out so well. Fort Hood springs to mind.

    3,000 potentially-armed Americans to stop one nut, all scrupulously disarmed. Maybe the EPA SWAT teams can help. What with all the likely lead contamination and all.

  11. While I agree that it’s a little tacky to crack wise about a shooting, the shooting itself has no bearing on how I, or any other lawful gun owner, look. I’m responsible for my own actions, not the actions of a spree shooter or the perceptions of the gun fearing part of the US.

  12. I was in that bldg on the 4th floor (where they say the shooter was) about 3 months ago for a navy contract mtg/debrief. It was very secure and so I am surprised it is someone who didn’t have access. They screened us and would not let us bring our briefcases in.

  13. Sound like more “workplace violence” to me. Be interested to see if the shooter is military police.

  14. Hm. Younger black male, 6ft-ish, says ABC. Must be workplace violence, then. It can’t possibly be anything else.

  15. Granted this is a Navy facility but I am again surprised at the shelter in place order and the roll out of a militarized police over one person like in Watertown, MA.

    It would be interesting to see the response to 4, maybe 5 people at once.

    • Shelter in place is just a CYA move by those in charge. As for the number of armed responders. Rules of gunfighting include bring a gun. And bring all your friends that have guns.

      • There are a lot of trigger happy cops running around the Navy Yard right now. It’s better that people stay where they are so the cops don’t shoot them.

        • Precisely. Most Government workers (including contractors) in a Fed facility have a tendency to panic easily because their “safe” surroundings have been violated. Much easier for a gunman to pick off or a jittery GSA po-po (whose “safe” space has been violated) to mistake for a shooter.

    • Just heard on Fox news, I think it was Jennifer Griffin describe a AR-15 as a assault weapon that fires 3 round burst when you pull the trigger. When are these reporters going to educate themselves before they speak on air.

  16. Cable news is reporting ALL SCHOOLS IN DC in lockdown, ALL GOVT BUILDINGS are in lockdown, looks like there are HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of responders. Helo’s over head.

    Dude, what in gods name has happened to this country? One freaking guy and an entire city shuts down. The response is like the North Koreans just invaded ! One freaking guy and this is what happens? Does the word HYSTERICAL come to mind???

    • Thank goodness our enemies are so stupid. If they ever got their acts together and showed up in any kind of coordinated fashion, we’d have no idea what to do. Or, more precisely, our government would have no idea what to do. Quite a few Americans would still know what to do.

    • Many years ago a jumper on the old Wilson Bridge (over the Potomac) tied up rush hour traffic literally between Richmond and Baltimore. There are only handful of major highways out of DC; and they crawl twice a day.

  17. Just read this on the CNN site wow their are some nutjobs out their.

    HillaryClintonFor2016 >GMR

    βš‘this is exactly why we need to stop hedging our bets and just start our campaign to outlaw all guns. We need to take the house and Senate and vote for Hillary in 2016 in order for us to stand up and loudly declare that individuals have NO REASON to own a gun. People will give you examples all day long of preventing rape and murder with their guns but statistically they do more harm than good. Just because one father was able to stop his daughter from being raped does not mean we should not look at the bigger picture of guns doing more harm than good.

    • Because it’s for the children…

      I love how their position is justified “if it saves just one life” while no matter how many lives are saved by armed citizens our position is always wrong.

    • Yeah, how’s all that husband fidelity and child rearing advice you spewed in the past been working out for you?

    • Yeah but what you missed is they changed the wording of the lede twice. I grabbed a screen cap of it. It did say “a man brandishing an assault rifle, shotgun and handgun opened fire Monday” Then it said “a man brandishing an semiautomatic rifle, shotgun and handgun opened fire Monday” Then it went back to “assault rifle”

      We’ll eventually find out what it actually is, but they clearly are paying attention to that phrase.

  18. Don’t believe anything until the incident is over and an assessment is made. The first reports are always wrong.

  19. It is really hard to believe they could let someone go buck wild with a shotgun in such a secure facility.

    I have wondered if some of these incidents we’ve heard about under the Obama admin are drills that are meant to be so real the public doesn’t even know they’re not. Is that feasible?

    I just wanted to put it out there because I know a lot of conspiracy theorists I talk with from time to time are obsessed with the “drill gone live” meme, but I think it is more likely that a paranoid government would engage in rampant security drills and try to deceive the general public as to the nature of the event than turn a drill into a false flag terrorist incident with real casualties.

    Obviously I mean no offense to anyone who has been hurt or killed today or in the past in such an incident. I just feel like every sacred cow of a gun free zone/safe area or event has been hit since Obama became President and they have all been exploited to the MAX.

    • Or it could be as simple as GFZs attract attack as they’re full of unarmed victims. I tend to believe that the simplest explanation is the best until proven otherwise. Having worked in various government departments at federal and state level I tend to not put a lot of stock in conspriacy theories.

  20. Dailymail is saying in their headline that there are 3 shooters.. one dead, one took a hostage and another on the loose.. again.. take with a grain of salt πŸ™‚

  21. just a word of warning. stories like this always have alot of mistakes in the story early on. For instance, in the Gabby Giffords shooting, we heard the judge was dead, then alive, then dead again. breaking news on this kind of story tends to make mistakes.

    So be careful with early reports.

  22. If this becomes a mass killing, 64 of 66 mass shootings will have occurred at Gun Free Zones. The Gifford’s shooting and the shooting in LA that ended at Santa Monica College (also a Gun Free Zone) are the exceptions. So perhaps 64 1/2 of 66. Anyone is free to check my numbers. I’m not a liberal, so I make the majority of my decisions based upon verifiable facts and reason, not emotion

    I missed the update of 4 killed and 12 wounded – officially making this a mass shooting incident. The maximum possible amount of gun control – a “gun free city” in a “gun free” facility. Cue the call for more gun control by Obama and Feinstein.

  23. Hrm if that rifle did indeed have a 3-shot burst then that would be incredibly telling of what happened. This is possible terrorism.

  24. I am so sorry for the families. Gun free zones have racked up more victims and have left sorrowful families in ruins yet again.

  25. This incident highlights all the things wrong with gun control laws. This is not an ordinary gun free zone. To pull this off the shooter had to go through a gate with armed guards and through a building entrance with armed guards to get to his objective. I am guessing that the shooter is an insider. Someone who the guards would know and would not have to pass through metal detectors. Every secure building I ever went to on a regular basis allowed me unfettered access because I had a badge and a pin.

    If you can’t keep guns out of NAVSEA in the Navy Yard you can’t keep them from across the Mexican border or brought in on a plane or boat.

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