We’re living in interesting times. From the UK’s Telegraph: “Gunshots were heard in the Turkish capital of Ankara on Friday, a Reuters witness said, as military jets and helicopters were seen flying overhead. Reuters witnesses in Istanbul, Turkey’s biggest city, also spotted helicopters overhead. Broadcaster NTV reported that both of Istanbul’s bridges across the Bosphorus, the strait separating the European and Asian sides of the city, had been closed to traffic.”
This from The Guardian:
The Associated Press is now carrying fuller quotes from the Turkish prime minister’s interview with NTV.
Having confirmed his belief that an attempted coup was underway, Binali Yildirim said: “We are focusing on the possibility of an attempt [coup]. There was an illegal act by a group within the military that was acting out of the chain of military command. Our people should know that we will not allow any activity that would harm democracy.”
The Dogan news agency said one-way traffic on the Bosporus and Fatih Sultan Mehmet bridges were blocked. Video footage showed the bridge being blocked by military vehicles.
Oh, good, I thought the news cycle wasn’t going to kick off until Sept.
Perfect timing for Trump’s 1st convention night, topic : National Security.
A nuclear-armed NATO ally is having its government overthrown in the midst of Muslim craziness, and your concern is how it affects Trump’s optics. If we’re lucky, this will turn out as well as Egypt has, with Islamists ultimately NOT in power when the music stops, but a brutal totalitarian regime where once we had a fairly rationale partner & ally.
PS- Turkey is also how we get air access to most of these Muslim shitholes anymore, and a new government will probably deny it to us
1) Turkey is not nuclear-armed.
2) This coup is tossing the Islamists out. Hopefully it succeeds.
3) If the secularists in the military win, that will result in better relations between Turkey and the US.
Correction – Turkey does not have nukes.
Correction, they have OUR nukes on site there, which is something of a distinction without difference if the regime becomes sufficiently desperate (or do you expect Obama to take the gloves off to prevent our facilities being ‘secured’ by the ‘friendly’ national government, which he as pledged support to?). Something like two dozen gravity bombs is the fastest search result returned. They also have nuclear power plants, which we ALSO would prefer to keep on our side.
I know Erdogan is about as unfriendly to us & as friendly to Islamists as has been seen in Turkey in some time. I also know that a totalitarian government that follows will likely be forced into positions antagonistic to us by its supporters. I also know that any possible competition for power with the military are likely to be even worse for our interests (Islamists, nationalists/fascists in favor of genocide, a descent into sustained civil war between these factions & the Kurds, influx of outside fighters like ISIS).
We should know by now that there are no good guys over there, and that the best we can hope for is a stable situation we can plan our operations, support, and influence around. What we see here is almost a guarantee that this apple cart is being upset, with regards to a very old ally of ours in the region. The reason Erdogan has become so hostile, and why a coup replacement is likely to be so hostile to our interests, directly stems from our Executive being a shitty ally to all his allies in general. We have failed to encourage, pressure, or encentivize Turkey into forsaking these Islamist forces, who rose to prominence in the first place when we failed to confront them early & ruthlessly in Syria when such action would have been a critical blow. Subsequently, Erdogan was faced with going it alone against an entire Mideast region gone insane with flaming Islamism, or to try to ride that tiger as best he could. He’s a popularly-elected leader, and this Islamist firestorm is a popular force; the same temptation to pander to it will exist for any subsequent administration, which is why my hopes for any replacement are not high.
One of the greatest contributions of British Colonialism in the area was a well-trained military, one that was culturally imbued with a certain sense of “we can’t let the elected leader get too far out of hand”. That and Attaturk.
The military role is to above all, safeguard their constitution. Which also grants the military power to “step in as needed”.
They have had at least half a dozen coups over the last 60-ish years if memory serves.
They had 2 coups. The other 2 were “memorandums” – essentially the army telling the current government that if they don’t stand down and let themselves be replaced peacefully, they’ll see what a noose looks like up close after a non-peaceful approach. Then there was something in 1993, where there was no coup nor an official “memorandum”, but a bunch of key government officials in the country have died in mysterious accidents over a very short period of time, causing a significant policy change shortly after.
And then there was the court case that Erdogan has started a couple of years ago over his less loyal generals where he accused them of preparing a coup against him – which everyone assumed was just a sham trial to pre-empt any actual coup attempt, but now …
And just like that, Hillary’s troubles are five big news stories ago.
So much this. The “Assault media” at work.
Does anyone really think that the “trending now” sections of the media aren’t for sale to the highest bidder? You’re dreaming… for the right price anything can “go viral”.
That’s the first two in a series. Next one probably posted tomorrow.
It’s already well known Faceplant has been manipulating the “trending” news links. That was a bit of a scandal a couple of months ago.
Sorry, It’s FAKEBOOK
A nuclear-armed NATO ally is having its government overthrown in the midst of Muslim craziness, and your concern is how it affects Hillary’s optics. If we’re lucky, this will turn out as well as Egypt has, with Islamists ultimately NOT in power when the music stops, but a brutal totalitarian regime where once we had a fairly rationale partner & ally.
This is what the start of WWIII would look like, btw…
Or Putin’s wholesale sacking of the entirety of the control structure of the Baltic Fleet, to replace them with guys who will obey orders to get waaaayyy too close to US Naval vessels.
Or China’s incursion in the South China Sea.
There’s a dozen plausible scenarios playing out as we speak. Let’s hope they get resolved peacefully.
Putin’s wholesale purge of the Baltic fleet command is most worrisome to me. The Joint Cheifs have to be sweating it since Putin apparently didn’t think buzzing our ships at bad breath distance wasn’t enough.
I fully expect ‘fendering’ at least in the Navy’s immediate future.
China’s a bit up in the air at this point. The near unanimous bitch-slapping they got at the Hague may have them re-think their approach a bit, but I won’t bet on it. China actually does care *somewhat* as to how its perceived on the world stage, and royally pissing off everyone local to them won’t help them. Pissing us off is still good to go, though.
One way to find out, sortie some aircraft and-or ships through the SCS and see the reaction…
Yes because the Chicoms are so scared of the pansies in the “Hague”.
You know, I swear there was a time, not so long ago, that the US would take an active and foremost role in resolving these kinds of international disputes that could conflagrate into global war…
“Yes because the Chicoms are so scared of the pansies in the “Hague”.”
The Chinese are fundamentally rather insecure about their ‘image’ the world sees.
They desperately want to be seen as technologically competent. They aren’t *yet*, and they know it.
But they are willing to throw huge efforts at some things to try and get that ‘respect’.
Example: You know that Malaysian Air 777 that evaporated in thin ocean a few years back, that we just recently *finally* have proof with that found flap that it hit the water?
About 6 months after everyone gave up looking the Chinese quietly announced they were going to take a detailed hydrographic survey of the entire Indian ocean. All 27 *million* square miles-plus of it. ‘In the interest of science’. It will take years, likely, but lo-and-behold, they will be the ones to find the remains of that aircraft, long after most will have forgotten it.
It’s not the ‘interest of science’ that they are doing it, 152 of the 227 pax were Chinese. The bragging rights for being the ones who finally found it will be the real prize…
Exactly, the ChiComs are desperately laser-focused on being seen as a first-world nation, not the second-tier bunch of thieves and copycats that they truly are. I’d love to see how they stole the space program, and seeing a Harbor Freight lunar module will be the ultimate irony.
We’re already at war with the Chinese, and have been for at least a decade. IP theft with no legal consequences, state-sponsored corporate espionage, back doors into cell phones, ($50 says they’ll find laptops next), deliberate aggression against our allies, they’re in our infrastructure by hack or by back door build-ins.
But since the bullets aren’t flying, economies are dependent on the slave labor provided by their army-by-another name. I will give them that the plan is genius, and that it takes glacial patience and vision (in government terms) to actually pull this off.
Not to mention buying up the propaganda outlets – the last Mission Impossible flick was an “Alibaba Pictures” production and played in AMC theatres – both owned by the red menace…
Barring some actual “event” (which looks more and more likely to happen) the future is a rather unpleasant melange of Idiocracy, Gattaca, 1984, and Ghosts With Shit Jobs.
The Turkish Army has historically viewed itself as the protector of the secular Republic that Kemal Attaturk founded. They’ve had a habit of stepping in whenever they’ve felt that the civilian leadership is falling down on the job.
The latest Turkish government has been rather Islamist in its orientation.
The usual gang in the press will probably present this as a horrific attack on Turkish Democracy. I’d suggest keeping calm and carefully watching what happens as events transpire before rushing to judgment on whether this is good or bad for America.
History of coups in Turkey: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/04/20124472814687973.html
Last coup was in 1980…at the close of the Malaise era. How about that….
I’m far from an expert, but from my own readings it seems that Mid-East national armies tend overwhelmingly to lean secular when they are politically active. We saw this recently in Egypt, and even in the old (now deposed, and threatened) dictatorships, there is a pronounced inclination toward secularism among the armed forces.
They know the islamist way is a loser.
Mideast armies overwhelmingly rely upon foreign funding (either directly, in the case of the billion dollar bribes we pay the Egyptians to not screw with Israel every year, or indirectly, in the case of foreign-run or foreigner-operated oil concerns), hence their desire to play ball with us. They are neither clothed, fed, nor equipped by the slavish devotion of the penniless backward masses that political Islam appeals to, though popularly-elected figures like Erdogan and Ahmedinejad tend to revel in it.
In most countries where it is the case, there is a strong nationalist tradition. It wasn’t always that way, but influential political leaders made it happen – Ataturk in Turkey, and various Arab leaders like Nasser across most Arab states (to remind, at some point they were actually trying to create a pan-Arab federation of states – Syria and Iraq used to be in it together even).
And once you do have nationalism as an ideology, army tends to lean that way.
Erdogan’s entire tenure in office has been a horrific attack on Turkish democracy.
Winter is coming.
Update: Apparently the Turkish president is asking Turkish citizens to openly resist the coup. Methinks someone wishes he had a second amendment right now.
If he’s asking the people to resist, it means he does not have adequate loyalist forces at his command. This is going to get pretty ugly unless they capture him quickly, or manage to take the main industrial areas and armories fast enough.
A lot of the minarets are blasting Erdogan’s message to disrupt the military. Some of those messages are demanding people kill the secular Turkish military forces for Islam. If the coup is successful, I suspect a number of clerics are going to disappear.
Man, he’s down to putting his faith in those poor bastards banging on tanks with sticks? Good night, Irene…
As of 11:00 pm EST, Erdogan has popped back up on TV, the airport will be re-opening, check out Russia Today’s Twitter feed, they have a video clip of a tank squashing a civilian’s car flat:
Erdogan may have quelled it…
The Telegraph is reporting that the military released a statement that they have taken full control of the government as of 21:34 local time.
Live updates here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/
Interesting times? Perilous times-FIFY…Can’t have Armageddon without the Turks going nuts.
You Sir would be correct, but I don’t think we are there yet, now I could be wrong…
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. This will be the sixth time since 1960 that the military has changed the government in Turkey. Twice they did that with a memorandum that resulted in the government stepping down. This is the forth time they’ve done it by force.
That was meant in the Chinese sense.
I will forever take it in the Terry Pratchet sense. Rincewind 4 life.
Some more detail on the statement said to come from Turkey’s armed forces. They have reportedly said in emails reported on Turkish TV that they have taken power to protect the democratic order and to maintain human rights.
They added that all of Turkey’s existing foreign relations would be maintained and that the rule of law would remain the priority. The Guardian has not seen the correspondence and, therefore, can yet verify where it has come from or on behalf of whom – exactly – it was sent.
MSNBC reporting this is Trump’s fault. (Ha!)
Wait, I thought it was Bush’s fault?
It’s the NRA’s fault.
This isn’t the first military coup in Turkey, and it may not be the last.
The Turkish military is anti-Islamist. Unfortunately, the Turkish military is also despised by the EU. The military probably felt itself surrounded in the west by the EU, in the east by its traditional enemy, Russia, and internally by Islamists.
It’s possible that the attack on the airport in Ankara was the last straw for the military.
For what it’s worth, the EU’s days are numbered, so they don’t have to worry about that.
Spain, France, a few others want out, so, yeah, it’s probably a goner…
Depending on the level of instability that results, this could have ramifications for the average gun owner. Many shotguns are manufactured in Turkey, so this could impact both production of the guns themselves, as well as spare parts, along with shipping them out.
If you own Turkish shotguns, you’re a below average gun owner.
But they do tend to need replacement parts often, so your point is valid.
A lot of people don’t know where their shotguns are made (Winchester SXP, some Weatherby, Mossberg Silver Reserve, etc), and just buy off the brand. I was a bit surprised myself when I saw just how many shotguns are made in Turkey by various brands.
I used to own a raptor atac semi auto shotgun. Yup they make a lot of shotguns
If you say condescending shit on the Internet about others guns, you are a below average individual
Yeah that would suck if all those cheap imported shotguns stopped coming in. People might be forced to spend their dollar on a decent quality American made shotgun instead. The horror.
Naw, they’ll just start sourcing them from Pakistan.
Plenty of decent quality stuff coming out of Turkey these days. I’d buy a new Turkish shotgun before any Remington made within the last decade, or a Moss for that matter – at least the Turks aren’t too cheap to make their aluminum shotgun receivers out of 7075.
I’ll be my chinese hawk outruns any 870 made in the last 5 years.
GREAT, support the Chicom/PLA R&D and industrial development. What could go wrong.
If you support a company that makes an inferior product solely based on their country of origin, you are doing a disservice to yourself, your country, and the free market. You are rewarding a company for producing an inferior product and screwing yourself out of a quality item.
Maybe they will buy an American made Ithaca or a Japanese made Browning BPS?
It matters neither that this this is normal for Turkey nor it may be solving an issue with the radicalization of the Turkish government, it matters that it is happening. Good or bad, if you heap this onto everything else, we are certainly in chaotic and perilous times. These different factions who have these beefs with society (ISIS, BLM, North Korea, Iran, or whomever) will play off of each other. They will look at this chaos as a sign of weakness in society…and an opportunity for some sort of payback or gain. Maybe this frenzy will die down, but I doubt it. I bet things are going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets better.
Is TTAG morphing into a general news site? The only relationship this has to guns is that the Turkish Army uses them.
Have to agree with this. Most regulars here are also regulars on their favorite news sites; no doubt they’ve already seen it there.
What we don’t see anywhere else is the news, editorials, reviews, etc that are specific to firearms and the Second Amendment. That’s why we come here.
I come here for politics-and ranting. I can get guns at dozens of other sites(and do). I hope I can still get that cheap semiautomatic Turkish shottie…
Turkery imports large numbers of arms to the US and Europe. Islamic violence and the responses to islamic violence are reported often here as they related to American security, which is very much tied to 2A concerns. I fail to see how this event is unrelated to that.
But democracy sucks. It’s just two wolves and a sheep voting what’s for dinner.
I see the voting machines are on the streets again.
Whether we like him or approve of him, barry is our legally elected president. If the military staged a coup here and barry went on the airwaves and ask all gun owners to rally to his aid, how would you react?
I was actually thinking about that. I loathe Obama but a military coup would be incredibly creepy, to say the least. But if Barry asked for help? Ha! No thanks, maybe get the BLM folks and hipster college kids to help.
Who’s doing the couping? That would matter alot to me. Also, if the head of a country gets on the air and asks for resistance . . . Yeah, its not going good for his side. If you do not discover the coup before its launch your odds of successfully resisting it go down sharply.
This right here. Honestly I think hell would freeze clean over before a sitting president asks civilians for help in this country. If it is at that point we would either already be shooting, or we would be the ones he’s asking for help against.
Great question, jwm.
The simple answer is that I have guns to defend me and mine, not Barry and his. If POTUS needed help, I’d tell him to call Al Sharpton.
Now, that’s funny.
Barry has armed the Mexican cartels and has a prior business relationship with them. A perfect arrangement.
Good question. My answer is ‘NO’.
I consider Obama’s administration a greater threat to me and America than ISIS, No. Korea, Russia, China, Iran, etc combined.
If the military staged a coup here and barry went on the airwaves and ask all gun owners to rally to his aid, how would you react?
I sure would not be fighting to stick Obonzo, Hitlery, RINOs, and the Donkeycraps back in office.
Actually this country would be much better off having me as King.
Make a deal with the generals.
I never heard his pleading for help, my radio is broke.
That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it, etc… 🙂
“If the military staged a coup here and barry went on the airwaves and ask all gun owners to rally to his aid, how would you react?”
He could rot in Hell before I would fire a shot in his name. My oath expired when government blatantly violates the Constitution again and again. My duty is to Liberty.
Looks mighty REAL in Turkey. Live on Fox news…
Let’s play a game called “Where’s Erdogon?”
Pretty sure the Turkish military is having a rousing game of that as we speak.
He’s back in power it looks, Vhyrus…
Who does one believe? That will be the answer….
I just heard a liberal reporter speak on the radio. She heard about the Turkish military mowing down protesters with a machine gun. She asked “can they do that?” I wanted to jump through the radio and ask “what part of martial law and military coup do you not understand?”
Reply; “What, like physically? Yes.”
Erdogan was a piss poor President (now, who else might that refer to…?) as he lied to the Turkish public when he stood for office, he has supported ISIS (a British reporter stated on Al Jazeera that he saw ISIS troops going into Turkish hospitals and rest areas after being wounded in battle in Syria) and has imposed sanctions on Turkish Kurds, as well as denying the massacres and genocide of Armenians in 1915.
In short, he was an embarrassment and he had to go. It is overdue for a coup to remove him. The Turkish Army should be congratulated. If anything this strengthens their claim to future EU membership, if that’s still worth anything.
Turkish military using machine guns on civilians! Last I heard civilians in Mid East were used to that
Just another day…
So if the coup is successful, then the Turks will all convert to Lutheranism?
I imagine a bunch of Lutherans or Mennonites are behind all of this.
“El Presidente, the army is in revolt, and are approaching the palace! How will you proceed?”
A) Bribe the leaders of the coup (20%)
B) Rally the people of Tropico to your defense from the balcony (10%)
C) Assassinate the conspirators’ families (5%)
D) Flee the island with Presidential Slush Fund ($5,000,000)
Welp, I guess NATO state Turkey (host of our nuclear arsenal) is now on par with a comical tin-pot shithole in the fictional Caribbean…
Turkey has already had two successful military coups since it became a member of NATO, actually.
Greece – also a member – had one.
Oh, and they also fought a little war between each other. While both being members.
So yeah, you might be setting your expectations for a NATO member a bit too high.