ST asked many, many months ago:
Does anyone on your team have a preference of metal or polymer frame firearms for purchase and carry, and why so?
Is this a ‘phase’ time and experience will cause to change, or am I forever condemned to irrationally prefer the time-honored feel of machined aluminum over modern glass filled nylon?
Here’s my take…
There’s absolutely no doubt that polymer handguns are here to stay. They’ve proven themselves to be accurate, reliable and just as good in every way shape and form as an all metal handgun. And to be quite honest, I’m in the market for an M&P myself. But given the choice I always prefer a metal handgun over a plastic one.
The rationale I like to use is that firearms have been made of metal for centuries. We understand the way the material functions under stress and we can reliably predict failure points and implement replacement schedules to ensure that the gun will always work. I know for a fact that my 1911 will need a new extractor eventually and thanks to the understanding we have of metallurgy, I can pinpoint that replacement in the weapon’s lifecycle to within a couple hundred rounds.
We’re getting to that point with polymer handguns and the newer firing mechanisms, but I just don’t feel that we have the same level of understanding that will assure me that my frame isn’t going to crack or some other part isn’t going to wear out when I need it most. But the real reason is that I prefer the way it feels.
I was on the range yesterday with someone who I infected with the gun nut bug and is looking to buy their first handgun, and they were talking about the difference between a Glock and a SIG. They had gone out and looked at the two and formed their own opinion that SIGs just feel…better. More solid. And even though the Glock is cheaper and just as reliable on paper, they want the SIG.
It’s the same way with me. I can happily shoot a polymer frame handgun, but I will never trust my life to one. When everything is on the line I feel more secure knowing that my 1911 was built the way JMB intended. And it’s made out of the same material that has proven to be so insanely reliable for the last century.
For some things I’m all about the latest and greatest. But when I absolutely need it to work first time every time, there’s no substitute for an extremely well-proven design.
[Email your firearms-related questions to “Ask Foghorn” via [email protected]. Click here to browse previous posts]
If your gun is ever exposed to fire — metal is obviously the choice. That is one thing about polymer that I do not hear. Although the chances are low that it would be.
For instance if a ACR was in a fire half of it would melt. Not good for a combat rifle.
Yeah and if it got hit by an atomic bomb that good old plastic Glock/ACR would melt faster too..?? Oh Paleeeeze! Polymer is lighter, has less recoil, doesn’t rust, crack, or wear out in a practical way. Cheaper to make too.
About 65% of US police handguns are Glocks (for a reason, and it’s not price alone–if it was Ruger would be selling the coppers plenty. They hardly sell any), yet for some retarded reason, we are STILL having people telling us they want a metal 1911 because it’s a proven design, and polymer is not??!!!! I guess those 4 million Glocks made in the past 20 years might need more “testing”, yesiree. This is the same krapolla we heard about polymer magazines when they first came out, now proven to be more BS. Whenever I am at a shooting range, and hear people bad-mouth polymer, I gladly take the Glock & Styer/MSAR plastic mags out if I have some handy, lay them on the ground, run over them with my truck several times. NO DAMAGE. Then I offer them the task of laying THEIR metal mags (of any type) on the ground to indure the same test. To date I have no takers, but it does shut them up! And as far as the “fire” debate, I suspect that any heat hot enough to melt a polymer frame would likely set off the primers/ammo in the magazine soon enough, putting the gun in pieces regardless of material the frame is made of. And NO I am not really a Glock fan (even though I am certified factory armourer), finding SIG-Pro and CZ-P07 poly guns more useful. And yes I do carry a 1911 at times, but am not going to kid myself — the Glock medium frame chambered in .45 GAP is the superior “big-bore”pick. Really people, you need to get into the 21st century here.
Actually – it -IS- price that has made the Glock pistol a mainstay choice of the police sidearm.
Really? Rugers are cheaper. Why dont we see these in police lockers?? Guess things like Glock factory support, Glock factory training, and millions of Glock parts at hand didn’t play in this right??
+1. The reason law enforcement has tons of Glocks is because their budgets made more sense for a cheaper gun, with the reliability. The LEO’s with SIGsare the ones with more surplus for such items. If you gave a LEO a choice between a glock and a SIG, my choice would be a SIG. It might be slightly heavier, but that thing would literally shoot for forever. If I had the money, I’d give a nonstop test between firing a SIG and a Glock. While both of them would rack up impressive numbers, I honestly think the Glock would fail first.
That and Ive had a Glock have a failure to extract. Never had that with my SIG.
To Steven; your comment that SIG is more durable than Glock is BS. The early non-stainless lighter slides stretch after about 15,000 rds if factory loads are used, and often need replaced after 20,000 for sure. The later heavy stainless models (designed to handle .40 cal) are now stronger, but the recoil springs on 357/40 pistols need to be replaced at 5,000 rds — if you wait until 10,000 tiny cracks can form on the frame, and at 15,000 failure can happen. Sig does NOT replace frames!!
On the other hand, Glock frames DO NOT crack.
So you had one failure to extract on a Glock? your statement is pointless as you did not tell us what ammo you were using. Steel case wolf perhaps?
The Sig 226 and 229 are great guns, but if you think aluminum guns are more durable, you are dreaming.
And I almost forgot: Glock loans many test guns to shooting ranges for the purpose of keeping records of rounds fired and any failure of parts involved. Slide and frame lifespans of 100,000 rounds are very common, and some cases of 250,000 are there too.
Springs will have to be replaced of course, but the main parts keep running. So see Steve you dont need to do your “durability test” because Glock has already done it for you, and in this case your SIG “pet gun” looses. There is NO WAY an aluminum Sig, as good a pistol it is will see 250,000 rounds — or even 100,000 without slide replacement at the least.
I agree, I can’t believe the drivel that Nick has spewed here. And furthermore, the parts that count on a polymer gun are metal. It’s not like the extractor is polymer!
What does the frame have to do except support the slide, hole the trigger assembly, transfer bar, etc. and not friggen fatigue or crack? In this role I believe polymer is clearly superior.
Less Recoil??? Unless gravity has changed since the polymer gun, I’m not buying that one. Physics is physics, period.
I stopped reading at “… lighter, has less recoil, doesn’t rust, crack, or wear out in a practical way.” I knew then that your opinion was not even remotely based on fact.
Lighter means more felt recoil. There’s less mass to absorb the recoil. That’s just physics. And they don’t crack or wear out “in a practical way”? What does that even mean? SMH
Glock fan boys make me want to vomit.
I say just get an m&p 45, its kind if like the best of both worlds like a steel gun slapped with polymer on top, More capacity then a 1911, rides on a steel chasis that can be replaced whenever you like, polymer frame so no corrosion and less recoil, stainless steel slide, 1911 grip angle interchangeable backstraps for whatever size hand you got, could even be had with a 1911 style thumb safety, plenty of aftermarket parts, and trusted by many law enforcement agencies and made in america.
I love my XD(M). It was my first handgun, and there’s quite literally nothing I don’t like about it. But the feel, the heft, the density of all metal firearms is an amazingly intoxicating thing.
I bought a P238 a few months ago because I needed something smaller and more concealable some days. I love it as much as my XD(M), for different reasons. I love it so much I went and looked at full frame Sigs the other day. They really do feel amazing. I love my XD(M), but when I hold a P226 I can’t help thinking, “This is what a gun should feel like in my hand.”
I was recently in a similar position, but ended up with a different conclusion (different circumstances and all).
When I was getting into guns, I was taught that if it ain’t a 1911, you had to know how to use your pistol as a projective (as in, chucking it at someone’s head) when (not if) if failed. Obviously, I wasn’t taught real well, but I still stuck to things with metal frames, exposed hammers, and .45 ACP. First a 1911, and later (when I started to deviate from my teachings) a Beretta Cougar.
I had tried Glocks (Tactical Tupperware) before and didn’t like the feel of the trigger. I also didn’t fully understand the striker system, and the safeties around it, because I always feared that the little pin would slip a groove or something and end up perforating a cheek.
As I got older (and fatter), carrying that double-stack cougar around got harder and harder. She was getting heavier on my hip with every day, and I started relying more on my Keltec P32 in a front pocket holster. I know, I know. Just bear with me.
So, I was reading the internet, and care across a discussion about the performance of .45ACP vs 9mm. You might have heard about it? Anyway, I figured, okay, I’ll try a lighter-weight 9mm tupperware piece, because it would at least be better than banking on that .32, right? Well, I still couldn’t get into Glocks. They just don’t feel right to me. I have airsoft guns (ironically, modeled after Glocks) that felt better in my hand.
And then I found the Springfield Armory XD line. These things fit me REAL well. The snappy SA trigger mechanism (with its grip and trigger safety, and striker-block mechanism) appealed to my cocked-and-locked side, and the 13+1 capacity of the 3″ subcompact appealed to my love handles. Even the full-size XDm is easier to wield than the Cougar (but then, I’m not sure much isn’t) and it’s definitely lighter and easier to wear than my 1911. Get it in .45 ACP and all my concerns are addressed.
So, the gist of all of this is if you’re considering going Polymer, know that there’s more out there than just Glocks. I know Glocks are hugely popular and I’m probably the rare 1-percent that don’t like ’em, but give some others a try before you write them off entirely. I definitely agree with Nick on the reliability of proven design, but I don’t have the figure for packing wheelguns all the time.
IF Nick wants a proved design perhaps he should stick to a lever action 30-30 and Pepperbox derringer???
Are you a troll?
No but the 1911 design is starting to look like one
Probably shouldn’t be suggesting to people they can’t depend on a polymer weapon to defend their lives…
I can find many dozens (if not hundreds) of videos demonstrating how fallible the 1911 design is.
You also stated, “And it’s made out of the same material that has proven to be so insanely reliable for the last century.” – Well, so long as we don’t consider rust, which you will never find on a Polymer frame.
As for your friend who chose the heavier (metal) SIG over the lighter (polymer) Glock because “…SIGs just feel…better. More solid.”, couldn’t we then just say the bigger and heavier the gun, the more durable and reliable it will be? I don’t think so.
And, for those of us who carry our sidearm all day, every day, the heavier metal framed pistols are, well, heavier. And that extra weight will be amplified with time.
Have I mentioned yet what it is like to try to grip an all metal framed pistol that has been in freezing temps for any period of time? The metal framed weapons will hold the cold and suck the heat right out of your hands, while the polymer framed weapons will very quickly match your hand temperature.
Same goes for extreme heat conditions. The metal frame will burn your hands (it is hot steel), while the Polymer frame will very quickly match your body temp.
I understand your opinion is just that, but I wanted to make sure everybody reading this had two sides to the story.
Oh, and JMB was good in his time, but that time was a long, long time ago…. We have advanced quit far technologically since then, and I will even go so far as to say, had current day materials and manufacturing equipment been available to JMB, your beloved 1911 wouldn’t be the 1911 is today. Which is the same 1911 it was 101 years ago.
I take exception that JMB was “good in his time”.
It’s interesting that since “we’ve advanced quite far technologically” the Marines just ordered 12,000 1911’s. They could have ordered Glocks, Sigs or HK’s but didn’t.
His M-2 is till issued. He designed the Browning Auto-5 and Superposed, both of which are still manufactured and sell well to this day. His BAR is still being made by FN as the FNAR. His 1894 lever action continues to set the benchmark in its class and sells well to this day. Nearly every locked breach semi-automatic pistol sold today incorporates a design he developed. One exception I can think of off the top of my head is the Beretta Cougar with its rotating barrel but it wasn’t a game changer.
Some designs accomplish their task so well that they stand the test of time with little need for improvement.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but just because the U.S. Military buys something does not mean what they bought was right. The U.S. Marine Corps’ order for 12,000 1911’s has a lot more to do with politics than it does function and form…same reason the Beretta was chosen, for political reasons. The political game this time around is buy American and go big (.45 and the whole stopping power debate) plus some nostalgia. Unfortunately, there is no other .45 design made by an American manufacturer that I am aware of that can compete with the 1911 (XD and M&P excluded because I seriously doubt that the U.S. Military will ever go to a polymer frame for standard issue, ever). In my opinion, the .45 models from the three companies you listed (Glock, Sig, HK) are vastly superior to the 1911. I’ll grant you that the 1911 is a hoot to shoot, but I would only trust my life to it if it was all I had.
Also, another reason the 1911 was chosen is because the approval process is simpler. The design is already approved MILSPEC (there are still thousands in storage from decades ago) and the costs of testing and implementation are significantly lower than trying to get a new “untested” weapon approved and ordered.
I think polymer will happen long before they adopt a striker gun. That’s the real sticking point for many armies, including ours (U.S.).
” just because the U.S. Military buys something does not mean what they bought was right”
By whose standards? Are you saying the Marines had no say in the selection? Are you or have you ever been involved with military procurement? No bubble to be burst.
“Are you or have you ever been involved with military procurement?”
Well, since you asked, I’m actually a Supply Officer in the United States Navy, and I deal with procurement literally every day. That is my job. Trust me, the U.S. Military pays a premium for lower quality all the time because of politics and pet projects.
Still doesn’t mean the 1911 is lesser of a gun…that’s YOUR opinion. Not the opinion shared by a lot of REAL operators in the field.
This is coming from someone that owns and uses a Glock 21, HK USP 45 and a 1911. I’d take my 1911 with 10 shots over the Glock or HK any day. Way more intuitive/accurate to shoot overall IMO.
Many of the 1911 guns bought by the marines of late ARE NOT military spec– many were made by Kimber and Springfield with novak sights, Ed Brown Grip safety, and other mods on a wish list. So much for being easier to buy because it was GI spec. I carried both 1911 and Beretta overseas and nobody really cared either way — you take what you get in the military. But for those who have the choice the SIG p220 .45 with stainless frame is superior to any 1911. And if you are clueless enough to need single-action only, they make a Sig P220 like that too. Far better pick
“I deal with procurement literally every day”.
Weapons contracts on the level of the Marines’ 1911 contract?
The preference to the 1911 isn’t just limited to this new Marine contract. More than a few SWAT and HRT units across the U.S. have adopted it in recent years.
I admire the 1911 platform and own one but I’m not of the “1911 or nothing” mentality. I enjoy shooting my Hi-Power more than any of the half dozen handguns I own and my GP-100 is a close second. I have a keen interest in the history of firearms and especially appreciate designs that stand the test of time. The 1911 has succeeded and endured in ways no other firearm has. The Marines have been successful in procuring rather specialized weapons suited to their specific wants and I don’t see this 1911 contract being any different.
I bet most of the people that extoll the virtues of the 1911 over every modern gun wouldn’t be able to point to the breechface, barrel lug or the VIS.
I think there are a lot of reasons that the 1911 market is still alive and well. One reason I think is that they just plain look cool — it’s hard argue its beauty.
Also, there is extensive infrastructure for custom parts, replacement parts, etc. So, I think it appeals to people that want to make it their own by making mods.
Don’t like Glock grip? Tough. So, there are plenty of good reasons to like the 1911 but trying to emphasize it’s “proven” track record or known replacement schedule sounds like rationalizing to me rather than a logical argument. I’d rather Nick just say that he plain likes 1911s better than make this crazy argument of knowing when to replace an extractor.
You have heard of cleaning and oiling your gun right? It works fairly well, even in the cold. I have multiple polymer guns, which I feel more like I “have” to carry, based on what I’m wearing, but jeans and a leather belt? Always metal. Also, when comparing reliability, durability, dependability, etc. You guys may want to read up on th AK-47 some time. Yes, I live in Texas, and most of us carry “ever day” not nesessarily an AK, but just making a point, besides, we just keep the AK in the back window of our trucks, just kidding… well, kind of.
I realize how old this post is, but have you considered the outdated 1911 design is a major part of the Glock, and most other handguns still today?
IF you need it to work first time every time you need a REVOLVER!
Polymer revolver, or steel? 😉
If revolvers didn’t come with billion pound triggers, I’d find them much more appealing. The prospect of spending $700 – $800 on a gun, and then spending another $200 more to get the trigger brought down to something tolerable is pretty galling. It’s even worse when you know you could go out and spend between $400 – $600 on a polymer striker fired gun with a decent trigger out of the box.
Plenty of revolvers available for well under $700, and none of them need $200 work of work before you can shoot them accurately. All it takes is a bit of practice mastering true DA triggers.
Aftermarket spring kits will work wonders on a revolver. My GP-100 from the factory was decent but not great. After I swapped springs the DA pull was just right for me and the SA pull was light but not scary light. Ignition has been 100% with the lighter springs.
yeah unless the cylinder jams, and wont turn–happens plenty enough. With the auto, the cartridge is already in the chamber, so even if the gun or magazine is damaged, the hammer still hits the primer getting off one shot. So the auto-pistol is more reliable. I thought this issue was settled decades ago geeezzze
Hmmm, cattle trail – would I take a semi auto pistol or revolver? I would take a revolver. The Beretta open barrel design – no way.
Polymer framed guns – and to a lesser extent, lightweight aluminum framed guns – are far more susceptible to limp wristing than steel framed guns. It’s just a fact of physics, a real-world case of the old “relative motion of a bowling ball joined to a golf ball by a spring” problem you may remember from physics class.
Now I know, I know, you would never limp wrist. Not even when wounded, firing with one hand, while losing strength and blood and air out of one lung. You will never get old and arthritic. Your technique will always be perfect, and you will be a perfect physical specimen until the day you die. But you are the exception. I see a lot of people limp-wristing at the range. And while better technique does help them, simply handing them a steel handgun to shoot fixes the problem even more quickly. The envelope of acceptable skill is larger for a steel frame gun. The inertia of that heavy steel frame does most of the work for you. Not to mention that it moderates some of the recoil.
If you’re a young stud, and you practice all the time, by all means, go with polymer. It’s durable, easier to carry, and it’s what most of the cool new guns come in these days. But speaking for me, as I get older, I appreciate “obsolete” steel handguns more and more.
yes, i have some arthritis and from my own personal experience i get a slight edge in reliability from an all steel framed pistol. towards the end of a session with my polymer framed gun i have to really concentrate or risk a ftf type malfunction. this never seems to happen with my all steel guns. comparing revolvers to autos is an apple and orange kinda thing. i have both and love both.
Limp wristing is not caused by light weight alone. How high the slide sits in the hand has more bearing you see. That is why the Glock has such an odd slanted grip angle–so the slide rides low in the hand–lower than any pistol made (aside from the Styer copy). I can promise you that a heavy 36 ounce Colt Commander 1911 with beefed spring and 45 hardball will limpwrist far more times with the same shooter than a 23 ounce Glock of the first 3 generations. Cant speak for the Gen 4 with new heavy springs–too new. So your concept seems right, but conclusion is wrong as it pertains to Glock vs. steel. Sorry pal
oh yeah before I forget: Metal might be heavier but it transmits more energy (recoil) to the hand than flexible polymer which absorbs it. I shoot both a steel 1911 Kimber 45 and a Glock model 30 (14 ounces lighter) and can assure you the Glock recoil is no more. Add to this the lower slide height and drip angle of the Glock — there is no way this polymer Glock is going to cause limpwrist more than a 1911 steel gun unless the shooter makes it. (The first thing you should have remembered in your physics class you mentioned is you cannot compare two different objects in a true manner unless ALL other factors are the same — as in a poly 1911 vs. steel 1911. The different slide height and grip angle of the Glock when compared to the 1911 makes your direct Poly-steel comparison and conclusion you wrote about pointless.)
Actually, the bore height and the grip angle have nothing to do with relative motion. The only meaningful factors are the masses and the spring rate. The flex in a polymer frame is basically just another spring, BTW. Which makes the problem worse, not better. Yes, you can induce FTFs with improperly tuned springs, but the fact that you have to specify an overly strong spring to make your point makes my point for me: you have to work (ie. use the wrong spring) to create that failure with a steel frame gun. It happens naturally all the time with polymer.
Is it simply that the only gun you own is a glock? You are making very strange argument’s regarding physics, of which it seems you missed your class. Is the polymer rigid or flexible, have you decided yet, I thought you said metal would bend while polymer would stay rigid. Rigid, plus, lighter weight means more transfer of more recoil.
TO JASON: when I said “strong spring” I meant the factory spec out of the box with 100% of its life ahead of it, not worn. I was not suggesting some aftermarket 300 pound unit. That I did not clarify myself more clearly is my fault — it does not get you off the hook for your faulty logic. The idea that flexible poly causes limpwrist due to its flexible nature is a guess on your part with no basis of fact. Further your statement that bore height and grip angle has nothing to do with “relative motion” is jibberish. A slide/bore that rides lower in the hand has less muzzle jump — this is a fact.
This in turn provides more resistance to the moving slide during recoil as it is pushing against the hand AND arm rather than the hand and wrist. So you get faster follow up shots too. If you don’t get it, you don’t get it.
Ok, let’s go back to basics and see if I can get you to understand.
A perfect semi-automatic handgun is one that will function even if fired with zero resistance! This could be simulated by hanging the gun up on fishing line or wire attached to the frame. The gun is basically free-floating. (The effects of gravity and air resistance are minimal, so we’ll just ignore them.) Or you could have a hang-fire in a gun. Pull the trigger, nothing happens, put it down on the table, and it suddenly goes off. At that point, the only resistance is the friction between the gun and the table. (Again, minimal, and can be ignored.)
When fired under such conditions, the slide will obviously be kicked backward by recoil. As it moves backward, it will compress the spring. The spring will push equally on the frame. This will cause the frame to move backward as well. However, the movement of the frame will be slowed by the inertia (mass) of the frame. (Bodies at rest tend to stay at rest – Newton’s 1st law.) As long as the slide moves faster than the frame, and reaches the end of its travel, the gun will function correctly.
A properly-designed steel-frame gun will function even under such conditions, because the mass of the frame is large compared to the mass of the slide, and the spring is not strong enough to give it enough force to get moving quickly. It gets all the resistance it needs from inertia. I’ve actually seen guns do this! It’s not just theory. (In fact, it occurs to me that this would make a great physics demonstration to post to YouTube. Maybe someday I’ll set it up and film it, Mythbusters style.)
So once you start talking about grip angle making it easier for the shooter to provide resistance, you’re already admitting that the inertia of the frame alone is insufficient. You’ve already told me that whatever gun you’re talking about is not a “perfect gun” from a pure physics standpoint. In truth, there are very few “perfect guns”. Most lie somewhere on a continuum of additional resistance required. The lighter the frame, and the stronger the spring the farther they are from perfection. (Flexing of a frame is essentially just a different part of the spring.) Heavier frames and lighter springs get you closer to perfection. But it’s not necessary to have infinitely heavy frames or zero-weight springs. All you have to do is produce a combination that allows the slide to cycle completely. This is doable.
But not with a polymer frame and a steel slide. With polymer guns, some resistance will be necessary. Every polymer frame gun can be limp-wristed – in other words, not given enough additional resistance. You can play around with the springs, but there is a limit. (The springs do have to be strong enough to provide for the forward stroke of the slide, and to prevent battering of the frame.)
Many steel frame guns can’t be limp-wristed. They don’t require any resistance at all besides the inertia of their own frames, and will cycle completely even if they just hang-fired while sitting on a smooth table. Resistance provided by the shooter is irrelevant. That makes them objectively better and more reliable.
Perhaps better explained by equating it to a simple lever. The farther away from the fulcrum, the less energy required to apply the force. All things being equal, the lower slide will be easier to control than a higher one. It’s physics.
Kind of sounds like you want a revolver.
The metallurgical point seems like a bit of a red herring. As Nick well knows, “polymer” guns use metal for the parts that need metal. Does any gun use a polymer extractor? I can’t think of any. There are no polymer barrels or slides. Polymers are used in lower stress parts like the frame, trigger, stuff like that, which saves weight and makes the guns more resistant to corrosion, etc. But bringing up the fact that you can predict when an extractor is going to need replacing is irrelevant. I also know when it’s good to replace the recoil spring on my XDm, but that would be the same whether the spring were in a polymer or metal framed gun.
Also, while polymers are a “space age” material, people forget that the space age has been going on since the 1950s, so polymers aren’t exactly new technology. It’s true that haven’t been around as long as steel or aluminum, but it’s been 42 years since the introduction of the first polymer gun, so having suspicions about them now is like being leery about the 1911 in 1953.
Hey CarlosT, aside from me, you are the only person on this subject making any sense!!! Well put. Good show!!
Well jason in a perfect world I would have a hot playmate of the month giving me head, waiting on me hand and foot, and paying my bills. It’s not a pefect world, and your perfect gun that can run the slide while hanging from a fishing line is just stupid. Bottom line: IF YOUR HAND CONTROLS THE PISTOL IT AINT A GONNA LIMP WRIST — IF YOU CANT COMTROL THE GUN, YOU SHOULDNT BE USING ONE!!!!!!Enough said!!!!
Please, seriously, science guys? I’m not saying one is better than the other, I am just trying to fix extremely uneducated remarks. Each has its own merits which is why I own a multitude of each.
I’d take a steel or aluminum frame over a polymer any day…it’s just whatever is the most comfortable/easy to carry for me that I’m positive will go bang every time. I prefer that to be a metal framed semi or j frame revolver.
All steel all day!!!! I have owned 5 polymer handguns in the last few years and to this day my daily carry pistol is an all steel ATI FX Titan 1911 Officers Model .45ACP!!!!
I carry it IWB in a leather holster and usually alternate every few days on right and left hand carry(naturally left handed)!!!!! Just like the way all steel shoots, handles recoil and feels compared to poly frames!
Currently have 2 all steel 1911’s, 2 all steel 9mms, an S&W Mod 67 Stainless .38 special and a real steel 1914 Mauser Pocket Pistol in 6.35mm(.25auto) that I carry occasionally as a last ditch gun in my vehicle!!!
Yes i have had arm and hand injuries but I still prefer and shoot better with all steel than I do poly frames!!! The poly’s are nice but just not for me!!!!
It really boils down to you get and use what you are best able to hit with consistently and are most comfortable with!!! Everyone is different so it will differ what we are each wanting and good with!!!!
Nothing wrong with metal if you like it, but you say “handles recoil better than poly” NO WAY. Fire a magnum rifle with wood, then with Polymer stock for a better comparison.
All steel for USPSA competition.
EDC? Keltec P11 polymer pistol riding on ̲a̲l̲u̲m̲i̲n̲u̲m̲ rails. Goes bang everytime, accurate enough to chase golfballs.
Just an easy tool to pocket or IWB carry, run with, bike with, once I even took it for an emergency swim. (Do lacquered primers really make ammo swim safe?)
If it starts getting sloppy on the a̲l̲u̲m̲i̲n̲u̲m̲ rails will Keltec stand by their replacement guarantee? (They are showing some wear…)
I fall onto the steel/alloy side of things partly by default, and partly because I like the feel of a good solid steel/alloy frame, especially with some nice wood grips on it. My preferred platform is the 1911, so I don’t have much choice in the matter anyways.
Not that I care, steel, aluminium, polymer, it doesn’t really matter to me. I’ve owned examples of all 3. They’ve all done what I’ve expected them to. I currently don’t own any poly guns, and probably won’t for a while, but that’s because I don’t have a need/desire for any gun that happens to be made out of poly right now.
As a side note, when it comes to guns like my P238, I feel the alloy frame is a huge advantage. The added weight (combined with superior sights and SAO trigger) let me shoot circles around any comparable pocket .380 I’ve shot. I’m sure it’d still be a decent shooter with a poly frame, but the loss of that weight soaking up some of that recoil would no doubt slow me down a bit.
All metal just feels better to me. Glocks and M&Ps are undeniably excellent guns. But given the option I always go back to Sigs and 1911s. The actions feel smoother. I can’t explain why, but when the gun recoils in my hand, metal framed pistols just feel *right*. It’s not a heftiness issue either. My lightweight Kimber Pro Carry II Stainless is much lighter than a fully loaded G17, the Kimber is a joy to shoot but Glocks just don’t float my boat.
Carry what you’re comfortable shooting and comfortable carrying. A gun that you have with you beats a gun left at home because it fits someone else’s arbitrary standards better than it fits you.
These discussions are always fun. All steel for competition and nightstand. I want solid and heavy like 1911, 3gen SW 40xx 45xx. The carry is light concealable polymer .40 I don’t mind taking anywhere, anytime.
Pig-nose is a polymer deal-breaker for me.
Yeah, steel is great, even though there’s nothing “wrong” with polymer. It’s just a matter of personal taste as to which one you prefer.
I prefer steel by a small margin because of the subjective feel of it, and also because steel looks better to me. Would I trust my a$$ to a polymer gun? Sure, and I do.
I’d venture to say that polymers have more than proven themselves. Glocks have been in service since 1982 and the Steyr AUG has been issued since 1977.
I’m in the market for a 10mm pistol and in the hours of research I’ve done it seems the consensus is that the Glock 20 is best able to handle the viciousness of full power 10mm’s (there’s no way in hell I’ll buy a 10mm only to load it to .40 S&W levels). Many attribute that to the polymer frame being able to flex a bit and dissipate some of the energy. Is it true? I have no idea but to me it does stand to reason because I didn’t find any reports of cracked frames or slides with the Glock. I also decided on the Glock in no small part due to the Colt and S&W 10mms being expensive quasi collector items and the discomforting number of cracked slides on the Witness.
You are correct!!! No metal pistol I have seen in 10mm has held up very long — I suspect to do so would require it to be the size of a Desert Eagle.
There have been no problems with the polymer Glocks, although you should still change the recoil springs every 10,000 rds. These are cheap (about $4 last I bought) , so I do so at 5,000 rds
Thanks! I’d heard spring changes were a necessity and will do so at 5,000 rounds. Do you use Wolff springs or something else?
You will love the Glock 20.My go to 10mm.It was built around the cartridge from ground up.The slide is a weapon itself.If you shoot the nuke stuff,a nice Wolff 22lb spring and a steel guide rod will do you right.I have a Witness Elite Match S/A.Any Witness in 10mm should be their Elite Series guns.Stay away from the base models,garbage.Also the Squared off slides do not crack as opposed to the newer contoured ones.Elite series come with square slides.IMHO,shoot 10mm rounds out of the Witness that stay in line with orig Norma Specs,170 grain at 1300 fps or 200 grn at 1200+.The go to ammo supplier is UnderWood Ammo.they make the REAL 10mm rounds at a great price.Selection of grains is unreal.18lb spring on Witness is all thats needed if no super nuke.
Wolf springs are OK but on a GLOCK I always use factory. Usually if there is a problem with your Glock (rare) they will fix for free if factory parts are used. One advantage of Glocks is that factory parts are of good quality, but SUPER CHEAP to buy. Look at their parts list and aside from frame, slide or barrel, stuff costs about a few bucks. Recoil springs are only $5 now, and trigger springs are $1. replace the spring in your magazine for $4 every 5000 rounds too! they will last almost forever.
I trained on a M14 in basic, but when I got to Vietnam I was handed a M16 with the plastic stock (made by Mattel). I never trusted it completely but I also never saw one break. I feel people should go with what the like. Neither seems to be that much better than the other with today’s weapons.
My M16 was a jam-a-matic
Am I the only one that did a double take at aluminum being called “time honored?”
The M-16’s been using aluminum since the early 60’s. How much further do we need to go back?
Good point. In fast most naval warships today are made of aluminum too. So it really amuses me to hear critics bitch about guns made with it — although it’s not as good as good as polymer and carbon fiber. Perhaps a battleship made of plastic someday???????
Of interest, since the Falkland’s War Naval architects have been going back to steel superstructures because of aluminum’s susceptibility to thermal flash. I personally use polymer pistols and like their resistance to rust, but they can be somewhat more liable to grip cracking than steel-usually in the pin area although thousands of grips are just fine.
I like both depending on the purpose. LC9 and LCP can virtually disappear comfortably, and I can put the round where I want it. Hogue helped that littlest Ruger get tamed. If it’s quality range time, I want my Browning, but I don’t worry about the weight taming the recoil. It’s a Buckmark!
Had a Springfield EMP. Jammed right out of the box. Went back to the factory. Worked for a while, then started jamming again. Started cleaning it even more regularly than normal, worked for a while, then started jamming again and this time with light primer strikes.
Everyone told me that 1911s with 3″ barrels are inherently unreliable – everyone knows that. And 9mm? Not a real 1911.
So, I traded it for a Colt Commander. The grip…fit my hand terribly, to the point where it was painful to shoot. (NOT b/c of .45 ACP — I’d shot that lots of times before. In a Glock.)
Everyone told me that I should replace the beavertail, or maybe consider replacing the safety so my hand should reach it. Oh, and I shouldn’t do it myself, I need to take it to a gunsmith for proper fitting. Yes, definitely not something a hack at home should consider attempting. Oh, and make sure you send it to one of the ‘good’ 1911 gunsmiths. Don’t want to take any chances. Also, I should learn how to adjust the extractor.
I was of the opinion that a gun that costs in excess of $1,000 should, you know, work. I traded the Commander in on two Glocks. Haven’t looked back.
Wouldn’t mind owning another 1911 someday. They sure are nice pistols.
As a safe queen, of course.
anyone with a copy of the factory manual and a punch tool can take a Glock apart–cant do that with the 1911. And many Glock Armourers will do the work for free for you for small chores.
As an avowed tinkerer I can attest that the 1911 isn’t simple to reassemble after a detail strip. I had an ambi safety on my PT-1911 that I didn’t like so I ordered a Wilson left-side safety that came with nice instructions on fitting. Suffice it to say I’m a horrible gunsmith and had to drive the thing to Robar to get it done right.
The 1911 was designed to break down to the smallest part without even a punch. I just did that for a friend of mine who bought a used Kimber that was in dire need of cleaning. No armorer needed.
@Jason, great link. Bookmarked it.
i think the dealbreaker for me is not too many polymer frame guns have external hammers. I like to play with hammers.
Sigpro has a hammer. HK USP has a hammer. HK 2000 has a hammer.
CZ-p07 has a hammer. Poly 1911’s have a hammer
c.a. , no insult intended. but do you have stock in a polymor factory? you seem way more passionate in your defense of polymer than needed. we all know the stuff works, i have some too, and i consider myself a revolver man. but it really comes down to personal preference. now, if i was still young and adventerous i would probably pick the 45 glock. asides from the habit of occasionally spitting brass in your face i think it’s probably as reliable and murphy proof as it gets.
I dont defend polymer because I like it. If I am going to carry something I “like” metal framed CZ’s and Colt Python is my pick. But for serious uses I am not stupid enough to think they are better than polymer frames. It’s sort of like driving an older British sports car from the 60’s — fun to play with, but the first modern Japanese sedan that comes along will blow you in the weeds. Polymer IS BETTER. Period! Same with comparing a leather holster that looks nice (but warps, cracks, shrinks, wears, traps moisture, and is expensive) to ugly modern nylon ( but doesnt warp, shrink, crack, wear much, and is super cheap). Nylon is better too.
Ejecting straight back is a sign of near limp-wristing. You’re getting really close to the edge of reliability. My first gun was a G21. Love it, still have it, still shoot it. It’s not my only Glock, either. But they’re not infallible, they do have limits.
It depends on the situation. When I’m hiking or doing something else that makes me likely to sweat, I prefer a polymer frame. Otherwise, I’m old-fashioned. If I could afford them, I’d have ivory grips on every handgun that I own.
jason, thanks for the info. i didn’t know that. as i said i have a touch of arthritis. if i shoot more than 75 rounds in any given session i start having to really concentrate to keep things running smoothly. i’ve noticed that the problem doesn’t accur with steel frame guns. ymmv.
There are charts online you can lookup to compare “felt recoil” for different calibers and guns. The issue is usually more about pressure vs. weight (in that equation, .45s actually score milder than 9mm because they are lower pressure in usually a much heavier gun, while .40 kicks harder than both). Me, I’ve found bore axis only reduces flip, not kick-back. Low axis guns smack the web of my hand harder–the energy has to go somewhere. And since I have very small and arthritic hands, getting smacked sharply in the web tends to sting and loosen my grip after a few rounds, where muzzle flip doesn’t give me much grief. As for weight, my personal tipping point for comfort seems to be about 30-32oz (but then, I’m also more of a sedan guy than a sports car guy). Example: I consider the felt recoil of my .44 DEagle non-existent compared to a Glock 17, but I’m not going to carry it.
My kids had similar experience: over 30oz is nice, under is unpleasant (my daughter loves her Beretta and can handle the Deagle, but she’ll FTE a Glock every single time). Ergos make a difference (H&K is my personal choice in Poly). Me, I just don’t like DAO triggers. So it’s not just materials…
Everyone knows that guns made from Rearden Metal ™ are the best!
I know you Glock fanboys like to call your piece a “combat” pistol but it’s not. There are many reasons why the military would prefer a metal framed handgun to a polymer. In combat you only use your pistol in close quarters combat. The next step after the handgun is hand-to-hand. The 1911 or the M-9 is a bludgeon. The Polymer framed handgun is useless once the magazine is empty. There is also more to durability than how many rounds you can put through the barrel. Combat conditions are physically brutal and metal, even lighter wieght aluminum, is going to hold up better than plastic after it falls 10′ get down the rocks or gets banged around armored vehicles.
We have a 1911, and M-9 and a XD/m in the house. We like all three but if I were on my way to Afghanistan I know which one I wouldn’t consider taking.
The only thing worse than a 1911 fanboy is a Glockophile. Like the Mac owners who are still convinced that their computers are immune to malware, Glock owners cannot see the flaws and limitations in their weapon.
it is a combat pistol. USSOCOM would disagree that Glocks arent combat pistols (with their use of the 19 and 22).
I still believe the slide portion is steel. I wack to the head with a Glock would drop you. Don’t see the point to your argument that the Glock can not be used to bludgeon someone. Glock can be used as such. I recommend a better argument that the Glock sights are not metal or lack of external safety. Or maybe go with that it is a striker fired pistol and it cannot be decoked (I know it is partially cocked)
P.S. Glocks are used by Military Forces.
I still believe the slide portion is steel. I wack to the head with a Glock would drop you. Don’t see the point to your argument that the Glock can not be used to bludgeon someone. Glock can be used as such. I recommend a better argument that the Glock sights are not metal or lack of external safety. Or maybe go with that it is a striker fired pistol and it cannot be disengaged (I know it is partially engaged)
P.S. Glocks are used by various Military Forces.
I started concealed carry in 1970. I carried a 1911A1 and 3 mags up to 12 hours a day in temps above 100 degrees, believe me hauling 5 pounds of iron around, no matter how it was supported, was no pick nick, corrosion was a constant issue. Have you ever tried to run 100 yards with a concealed 1911A1 and 3 mags?
I switched to a hard chromed HiPower with 1 spare plated mag to reduce weight and corrosion as soon as I could afford it, knowing I was losing stopping power in the process. I tried alloy framed Colts but they did not hold up, the Smith 39 was such a joke it became a punch line. In 1991 I switched to a Glock 17 w/one spare mag and never looked back.
polymer, enough said.
the “house fire/ exposed to fire” makes me laugh. if a weapon is exposed to fire your heat treatment goes out the window. it either gets much softer or much more brittle. leave the steel for the big calibers (hot and heavy .357 mag and up) and any thing less than hot and heavy 10mm auto for the polymers.
the OPA makes it seem like a polymor weapon is completely made out of plastic when its not all the critical componants are steel and where frame stress is evident the smart manufacturers reinforce it with steel.
the key differences are Weight, Rust, recoil absorbtion (through frame flex) and heat transfer to the user. a full metal frame is going to start burning you a hot and heavy range session
it still remains evident, shoot what is comfortable and works for you
I believe the polymer grip will begin to soften and deform at about 350F. A full-blown house fire is not necessary for deterioration. Metal fatigue needs much more and prolonged heat for effect. Theoretically leaving a polymer gun on a stove top could cause some damage (if anyone is idiot enough to do so). Some Kel Tec guys actually do some nifty grip smoothing by heating it in an ordinary oven.
Have both a Glock23 and Sig229 at home. Carry a G21 on-duty (dept. issued, never take home). Wish it were a Sig, but for concealed, the 23 wins. Either way, I can put rounds out of both into the target where it needs to be. Buy a weapon that fits your hand and you can accurately shoot.
The only difference I notice between the two is the temperature balance. In the winter, that Sig gets really cold when drawing outside in -10 temps, whereas my Glock is still cold but doesn’t freeze my hand when holding it for the first 4 minutes.
Won’t wraparound grips fix that for you? I swapped out the grips on my 226 and don’t have issues with that.
Guess if you’re talking stock guns, then my point is moot.
They would, but I’ve noticed that my shirt sometime hangs on the rubber and has the tendency to allow the weapon to be displayed. Know of any grips that could circumvent this issue? I tried the skateboard/sandpaper tape, but it rubs too hard on the skin during summer when under the t-shirt. I’d be open to trying a new set to get my Sig back in the cold.
This thread reminds me so much of the religious wars in the consumer information technology industry, the never ending Apple versus Windows versus Linux. This also reminds me of the “caliber religions” of .22 and .32 ACP versus larger calibers. It’s funny that many pro large gun caliber advocates now are ignoring the argument as they embrace the new class of .223 and other caliber rifles that are being cut down to become “pistols”. The options are almost endless and if you are a good machinist gunsmith you can nowadays cater to anyone’s particular tastes in a weapon.
Like in every blog, there are religious zealots, manufacturer trolls, practical users and those seeking knowledge or that ever rare valuable thing called wisdom.
IMHO there are a lot of factors that decide what you call your “go to” or favorite gun. Many times circumstances, employer, job, budget, mission and even the shape and dexterity of your hand will shape that choice. In my personal and humble opinion, the mission, my past experiences (like the feel of the gun), the circumstances I find myself in and the budget usually affect my choice more than anything else. For example, in concealed carry I prefer a revolver, not an automatic because I can easily fire from my conceal holder without taking the weapon out of the holder, something that with automatics is usually harder to accomplish because of slide snags.
The real professionals, like the Navy Seals, are constantly looking at many weapons and practicing with them. Then they marry the ordnance based on the mission parameters, their personal skills and the other parameters like budget, weight, environment, etc.
Like “Joe” said, the weapon choice changes based on what is needed. The only folks that have no choice are those like LEO who are forced to have a particular weapon, but that’s the nature of LEO work and government budgets.
My disclosure: I prefer the S&W 642 revolver for conceal, the Sig P229 .40 S&W for Close Quarters Battle (CQB) and the Sig P226 9mm for longer distance accurate shooting…Glocks don’t feel well in my hand, although I’m sure they are a great and reliable weapon.
Yhinking as Obobo
You don’t Ycount
YJou have too much knowladge, imposible to corrupt, imposible to discredit,,,,IED proof?
This was just my channeling the WH Ghosts
Did we not just discover that the CAST lower for the Hunmble 1911 (sexy) version failed at 10,000? in the USGI Testes (yeah I think it’s funny too)
You need trust, faith,,,GI-US MFG? buy pre Obama BS Chinese Cypto-Imports
I have a Gen 2 G19 and a Sig P228. I love em both and for different reasons. The Glock is obviously light. By a I might margin, I’ll add. The Sig seems point more where I want it to go and it’s natural. But I carry the Sig P228 in my vehicle because of the trigger system and the G19 stays boxed in the safe. Carrying the P228 with a round in the chamber just adds a zone of comfort and control that “I” don’t feel with the G19. That said, I handle my G19 at least 3-5 times per week and everytime I think “I really want to carry this. I really do..”.
So instead of focusing on “what” matierels are used, why don’t we focus on confidence/comfort of actually firing/handling it and technical explanations of why? Write an article about that.
we will. Then we will explain why the gun is better in polymer!!!!!!!!!!!
This ought to keep things going.
Here’s an HK P2000 that snapped in two from a fall,
There are two problems with these photos of the HK. First, we don’t get the name of the “agent” involved so there is no way to document what happened in detail; all we have is a pic of a damaged pistol, with NO VERIFICATION of how it was damaged. If this really is a Border patrol agent paperwork and documantation would have to be done. Where is it? Who was it? When? In short all we have is a picture and NO FACTS!Secondly, if you look at the pics up close, the damaged polymer sharp edges are NOT pushed inward as if taken from a “fall”, but parts are spread OUTWARD as if a pistol explosion has taken place. This is the type of damage we will see with any polymer gun that explodes due to a faulty reload/overcharge — the pressures seek the least path of resistance, and travel through the bottom frame and mag well. This is one of the reasons Glock has the empty space running through the backstrap of the hand grip — so pressures from an exploding cartridge will travel out the frame, with less damage. It is also the reason you should NEVER plug the Glock hole with those aftermarket “plugs” being sold on the market or you might get a picture like this! I think while the pictures are “real” from a visual standpoint, the conclusion that this damage was caused by a “fall” is total BS unless someone can document this. In the meantime I am betting this is a damaged frame due to ammunition failure not polymer failure.
P.S.: If I am correct about the blowing up, and I am sure I am, then it proves that polymer is superior because an explosion like this on an all- metal pistol would likely trap the pressues in the frame, which often causes slide failure — right in your face rather than your hand — the latter can heal a bit faster than a blast to the eyes! Think about that for a while guys!
Thanks for the info. I always wondered about that space in the back strap of the Glock.
I’m sure you’re right. I guess some random guy had a kaboom from bad ammo then went through all the trouble to tear up a holster, get some USBP colored shirts/pants/boots, a quad, desert scenery, get everything really dusty then concoct a story just blame it all on the Border Patrol for the hell of it. Makes perfect sense to me.
Or, BP had a kaboom from issue ammo and decided to make up a story about an agent that fell and his gun broke. For the heck of it.
Three medium quality pictures are hardly enough to make a forensic analysis of H&K’s polymer formula.
Also, when metal framed handguns experience a kaboom its usually the grip panels that go first – more so to the side than towards the face. What doesn’t go out the sides travels, to varying extents depending on whether the mag gets blown out or not, down through the magwell. Again, not towards the face.
I’d like to know the UV tolerance of that polymer. That’d be a bigger factor for a field agent here in the southwest. Sure looks like that thing failed along an area not entirely covered by the holster. As a 40 year veteran of the southwest I can attest to the fact that the sun in this region will rot everything that isn’t metal. Even the “highly UV resistant” fender flares I put on my Wrangler two years ago look like hell.
I will ONLY carry a 1911. They are the finest, most perfect pistols ever invented and John Browning was a genius. There will never be a better pistol than the original 1911! Everything else is just fighting for second place!
On an unrelated note, I will ONLY drive a Model T Ford. They are the greatest cars ever made. Cars have just gotten worse over the past hundred years. The Model T was the pinnacle of automotive engineering and Henry Ford was a genius!
I’ve owned both an all steel 40s&w baby desert eagle and a Springfield XD40S&W. I’m trying to figure out whether I should buy another all steel baby eagle or the new one in polymer. Both sides make valid points but a lot of your points sound biased. The Glock(polymer) has been proven to fire even after being buried in sand, mud, put in a block of ice or even in water. Only other gun to do this is the Springfield. On the other hand, my steel eagle has never had an issue. Very accurate, not much recoil and durable(although it is a little on the heavy side). I guess it all comes down to comfort and opinion.
Off the subject, but Henry Ford didn’t invent the model T, he stole the blue prints because the original inventor/genius didn’t have the money to copyright his idea. He’s a thief, not a genius. Had to drop some knowledge on this forum, instead of opinions.
I own a polymer Sig SP2022 and it’s a great gun that I’d trust my life on, but I also know that both plastic and aluminum alloys will break down over time, it’s just a matter of when. Could be a century, or a few decades before they warp. So the modern guns are good for shooting, but for long range collecting for investment purposes, steel is a safer bet. All steel.
C.A. OHAire, the fact that you’ve invested this much effort into this argument means you’re just dick measuring at this point with nothing useful left to contribute. You’ve made your point. Regardless, the operators in the field love the 1911 because they are confidence inspiring, and the confidence to rock fifty rounds in combat counts way more than knowing some polymer wonder can take 100,000 rounds in a pillowy gun range.
Does anyone know of a website or magazine article that compares or runs some sort of torture test to compare steel vs aluminum vs polymer framed guns?
Here’s one website. Anyone else?
Did you really just say you prefer a 1911 over a glock or m&p because you are worried about reliability?
Don’t care much for Polymer or Aluminum.
Real Steel are the only guns with testicular fortitude. ===D~
Fire? Really? Metal does not hold up to fire either, if you ever had a gun go through a fire its toast. It has lost its heat treatment and becomes soft. its junk. Springs are gone also. I have to think that if there were any major flaws in Poly that they would have surfaced by now. I like all metal guns but they are heaver and not as good for concealed carry. Some times old people just don’t want to change. Why go to star bucks when ma can make me a good old cup of chock full of nuts at home, its just as good as your fancy latte. Then go out and yell at the kids to get off my lawn.
I have owned an old German SIG P226, a Glock G34 Gen 3 and a CZ75 full size in stainless steel for over a decade and I shoot them fairly regularly. I do agree that the Sig “feels” the best and is obviously more well built to much tighter tolerances than the Glock, it has no play whatsoever between slide and frame and no loose parts but then, it also cost over 50% more than the Glock so that is to be expected. The only aspect I question in the polymer vs. steel debate when it comes to actual lifespan from normal wear or number of rounds fired is the seemingly obvious physics… The Sig and CZ both have virtually full length contact between slide and frame and cycle smooth as butter while the Glock has MAYBE one inch total of metal contacting the slide on each side and seems to have fairly loose tolerances as there is a bit of play or “wiggle”… How is it possible that the Glock could handle as many cycles as the Sig, let alone the all steel CZ75 before the frame to slide fit becomes too loose? Seems to me that FN has the right idea by making the metal rails on the polymer frame replaceable… Using that kind of enginuity one could theoretically make a gun capable of firing an infinite number of rounds by making replaceable every part that endures friction or wear… Am I right?
notice how c hair ( c stand for cock I guess?) said in his original post he’s not a fan of glock then went on to defend them like a rabid dog? ya, most posers will use false statements to lend.credibility to their forthcoming outlandish statements. Anyhow, my two cents. Every defendDr on here of the glock cult has said “all the.important.parts are steel”, to which I say two things.I feel the.trigger is pretty important, and also your statement itself.admits the strength failures of polymers, otherwise why wouldn’t they be 100 percent polymer
hammer, sear, slide and all? also cock hair mentioned some made up failures of wheel guns, to which i wont respond to because he is obviously an idiot if he trying.believes the bull he spouts. A revolver is 99.9 percent.fail proof, and that is why the general.consensus is that they are.the most dependable. now Mr hair, I think I hear your mom calling, your hot pocket is.ready so stop looking at yourself in the mirror with all your tacticool Tupperware and get up there and eat, wouldn’t want your din din getting cold. dork
I won’t enter into the steel/polymer debate, but I readily admit that I’ve been a Sig guy for a long time (since I carried one in the military), but definitely not because “Glocks suck”. My late father had a Glock 19 and it was an incredibly dependable handgun that he shot well, but it didn’t “fit” me. It seemed like I was always searching for the right sight picture, due primarily to the grip angle. I own several Sigs (nine to be precise and they’re all metal), but after some lengthy training and familiarization sessions, I decided to get my wife a purse/pocket gun for personal defense. I did some extensive research and settled on the Glock 42 for her. They’re still getting to know one another, but she shoots it very well (and so do I). It’s a superb pistol that eats anything you feed it and I like it a LOT more than my much more expensive Kahr P380.
CRAP! I thought if I read to the very end of all these posts, there would ultimately be a complete consensus on which was better overall…plastic or all-metal. Everybody would agree, and we would be able to formulate our handgun wish lists accordingly. Seriously, this is like arguing over if blondes or brunettes are hotter. Variety is good, I say own a few or each! (guns, not girls).
Yeah that ohair guy sure did defend Glock like a rabid dog. LOL Think I will get a new steel CZ SP-01.