We covered the .22 TCM round when it was first introduced in a handgun by RIA / Armscor, and it kinda made sense. A zippy .22 caliber round coming out of a handgun can be useful, which is why FN likes their funky 5.7 caliber thingers. But after a full year of it being out there, no one else has picked up the round for production in another firearm. I had assumed that the round had simply died a quiet and dignified death, but apparently I was wrong. Now Armscor is about to introduce a bolt action rifle chambered for .22 TCM . . .
Some of you may be drawing a comparison with 300 BLK, another new caliber that some people here (read: me) have become a little enamored with. And while it’s true that both are new, the 300 BLK actually had a legitimate use case and some nifty features to speak for it. This thing, not so much.
Especially out of a bolt action rifle, .22 TCM doesn’t really figure. It makes sense for a handgun, since that cartridge fits nicely in the grip of a 1911, but when you have already made the decision to go with a full length rifle, why handicap yourself with a smaller case length and hard to find caliber? If you’re wanting a zippy smaller rifle round, then .243 Win is what you should be using.
Armscor will be making these available for sale sometime in July, according to their Facebook page. But I expect this caliber to go the way of the EtronX system before then.
If you’re wanting a zippy smaller rifle round, then .243 Win is what you should be using.
True dat. The .243 is a terrific round. Fast, powerful and flat. As popular as it is, the .243 is still underrated. Unfortunately, the buggers have gotten very spendy in recent years. There is a great disturbance in the force when .243s cost more than .308s.
+1 I loves me some .243 Win.
I don’t think they’re deer legal in every state (IIRC Colorado required a .25 caliber rifle). So that’s part of why not everyone loves ’em.
Colorado minimum bullet diameter for big game hunting is 6mm, not .25″ caliber. .243 Winchester is legal for deer here, and so is 6mm/223.
Yes indeed, the .243 is a great round. I’ve often wondered why the AR-15 wasn’t designed around that cartridge by Stoner.
.243 is noted for burning barrels when used in semiautomatics, fired in large volumes (Winchester 100 for example) totally unsuitable in a military rifle, further, the longer round calls for a true “short action” such as the .308/7.61×51 would use. this would add weight and size to the firearm and weight to the ammo the troops would carry. Effectively they would be carrying a rifle the size of the AR-10 (same rifle but built for the previous mentioned 30 caliber round) rather than the smaller AR-15 sized rifle. This is also the reason why so many 6mm & 6.5 mm caliber rounds failed long term muster as military rounds, yet this issue doesnt pop up as fast with the 5.56 and 7.62 (.22 and .30) caliber rounds due to the way these bores channel the flame fronts.
This cartridge won’t be real until dies are available. Or did I just miss them?
yes you missed big time
WHERE?
Well for me personally it would make some sense, notice I said some. I have a FN 5.7 and a silencer to fit it. It would be nice to have a rifle in the same caliber for…hell I don’t know! It wouldn’t be the best coyote or cougar gun that’s for sure. I guess it would work but there are better rounds. But what the hell, I don’t NEED most of the guns I have.
I won’t argue with the .243. It’s a great round. The biggest mule deer I ever shot was shot with a .243 using 100 grain Nosler Partition. Dropped him in his tracks. This was when the .243 was considered marginal for mule deer. Now with bullets as good as they are I don’t think anyone would seriously say that the .243 is not suitable for deer.
You can get an AR57 upper for about $350. BOOM! AR in 5.7
And it accepts standard P90 magazines.
And then I might have some vaguely legitimate reason to get a PS90…as opposed to just drooling about them.
What? I’m 28 and a video game whore. You expect me to not go all fanboy over the P90?
I have to ask, where in the world are you seeing those uppers at that price? Cause I’ve been interested in getting one, but everywhere I see it the price is double yours
I have the pistol chambered in .22 TCM and it is a blast to shoot. More of a novelty than anything.
A novelty; are you high? 2000fps coming from a pistol is a bit more than a novelty!
Yea I have one and its awesome accurate . And something traveling 2050 fps is going to do some damage. I would shoot anything with my TCM and feel like it will get the job done.
and right here is the reason and justification for the rifle one round two firearms one closeup one for vermin varmints yotes cats and other critters that mess with livestock.. I guess some people don’t get that aspect.
It’s kinda like a .22 mag except its damn near impossible to find, and more expensive. Awesome idea.
Yes, except for the fact it’s centerfire and faster, it’s obviously identical!
Ever try to reload rimfires?? or how about 75 grain projos???
NITWIT 22tcm is a center fire shell, not a rimfire and ive loaded thousands of rounds for it. KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU ENGAGE YOUR MOUTH
Yu can find ammo if you look it up on line. Cheaper than dirt has it.
6mmRem for me!
With the improvements to 22 mag why bother with this chambering?
Heck, 22 Hornet is cheaper!
And slower too and doesnt work in the two caliber 1911
I’m curious if it is catching on in the Philippines.
i’d rather have a bolt action rifle in just plain 9×19. especially if it took glock mags.
While I like the idea, it is probably a bad move for Armscor because now they are competing with 22 hornets and 22 magnums which are both much cheaper and easier rounds to get in comparison.
Build a light rifle with a 16″ barrel and offer it as a far more powerful alternative to all traditional rimfire rounds. It would make a lot of sense for small game. In Sweden they use miniature rounds like the 7×33 for pelt hunting and for small mammals and birds. The 22 TCM could well fill that purpose in this part of the world if the pricing works out. No, it is not a .243 – it wasn’t intended to be one.
Hey, you are making too damned much sense to be posting in this thread!
The truth is the rifle was introduced for ranchers who have already developed an affinity for the handgun and were yelling for the caliber in a rifle. Building a custom rifle required shortening the receiver and bolt due to feed and ejection issues due to the size of the case, too big to use a Hornet receiver, too short for a short action… so most of the customs ended up single shots ( of which I have one) The caliber itself is submoa and accurate as hell. machine rested I’m shooting 1 inch or less at 300 yd depending on wind with 55 grain boat tails average groups in still air machine rested are half inch, again 300 yds… but you guessed it you cant tell these monkeys on here what the real facts are without them complaining that they can do it with something else. Personally I like having one caliber for two fire arms for when the need fits.
Ah…. a rifle chambered in “.22 Turner Classic Movies”
On paper I really like .22 TCM. It’s ballistically similar to .22 hornet, it uses common .22 cal bullets, it can be necked down from common .223 brass, it will work in many 9mm handguns with a barrel/spring/extractor swap, and you should be able to easily chamber plenty of rifles in it too (as long as they use a bolt face that’s sized for .223 or 9mm). It sounds like it has the potential to be produced at a low cost, while being viable for many different platforms. It also sounds like it could be a very accurate and flat shooting cartridge.
With that said, I’m not buying into it unless it gains widespread manufacturer acceptance. Too many flash in the pan calibers out there that just never gained popularity.
Calibers tend to fail because everyone is waiting for them to be widespread and common. Which nowadays, unless it is being a new development demanded and adopted by a major customer like certain agencies, just won’t happen.
Glad you mentioned it. Look how long it took the 22Hornet to get acceptance. If it has to any large degree. I’m still a bit curious about this rifle. It looks Good. Solid in the Old School traditional way. Got a Hornet way back when no one else was considering it. Might do the same with this newest offering from RIA.
Go for it! And remember, most of the data you see is limited due to nobody loading for it yet, I’ve worked up some nice loads that show no stress with 75 grain projos, however my chrono died,,, so I am not too sure of the velocity, I am guessing they are just sub that of the factory due to minimal difference in bullet drop. HOWEVER, I have not yet tried these in the handgun, I need to try the development loads in it and see how they function and look at the brass, an auto pistol and a bolt action are two diff beasts. My Custom single shot is also a horse of a different color as well Built off an old Weatherby MkV I can still push the loads until the brass shows stress but without a chrono, I wont know where the returns drop off so I need to wait until I get it back from being repaired.
This is yet another wildcat solution in search of a real world problem.
this will be an orphan caliber in 5 years. if you buy one , buy dies and a couple of cases of factory ammo . lok at the 243 wsm, 25wsm,270wsm,300RUM ,300RSUM, 325WSM. 8mm rem mag, all gone within 5 years. yeah, they still make factory ammo, but it is wildly expensive and has to be ordered.
sadly most stores are carrying fewer and fewer calibers of ammo every year. anything but the most common is getting expensive.
It sounds usefule in a handgun, but there are too many better choices for a rifle.
I have had a RIA M1911 double stack in 22 TCM for over a year. Ammo is no problem. I just call the number in the original box and order in bulk. It arrives within a week. I have even returned my empty cases for a discount on the order.
Its a blast to shoot but annoys a few people at the range.
How much is the rifle going to cost anybody know yet.????
All I know is I’m buying one and want bitch about it. I love all guns and as long as you shoot safe then where is the problem. One thing though I’ll buy a lot of rounds and buy the die so I can reload and enjoy our freedom.
funny but if you look in shops other than wally world those calibers are still available from the big name MFGS damn this thread is filled whit whiners naysayers and knowitalls with empty heads!
Am I the only one that feels like there’s so many calibers I can’t keep track of them already, even without new ones being added?
You’re not the only one. I have a lot of WWI and WWII military weapons, so I have boxes of weird stuff like 8mm Nambu, 6.5×50 Japanese, 7.5×57, 7.62×54, .30 carbine etc laying around.
I’ve tried to simplify everything else, so for my hunting/defense/modern weapons everthing is 30.06, .308, 5.56, or .22 in rifles, 12 Gauge for shotguns, and .45 for handguns.
@JRS:
I recall having the same problem some years ago while at the range with my AMT Automag III. Between the muzzle flash and the report, people would stop shooting and stare(glare?!) at me until the mags were empty…lol
If they don’t OWN the range they have nothing to say… I had one fool come up to me and start ranting at me about shooting a .45/70 handgun at the range, one day. So I immediately pulled his membership card tore it up and told him to get out, he was in violation of the rules of the house, I wrote them when my partner and I opened the business, and he was NOT welcome back. The idiot was too stupid to read the sign that said “Lane Reserved for Gunsmith Only”
Comparing a .243 Winchester to the .22 TCM begs the question: “Well what are you planning to do with the rifle?” I wouldn’t use a .243 for prairie dog varminting and I wouldn’t use the .22 TCM for antelope.
If the thinking here is finding a one size fits all cartridge, then neither the .243 or .22 TCM would qualify as a suitable choice…However, this is America, so we can have as many as we want with spares besides, so the only correct answer is one (or more) of each, if so desired.
Well Said my good man!
I can’t wait to get one, it will replace the 22 mag being it is reloadable and not give all the problems associated with reloading the 22 hornet
Agree with Cornhusker.
A 243 is the only rifle cartridge one should be considering? Really?
I’m not sure how you got this job. Do you know anything about rifles?
If it goes bang when you pull the trigger and puts energy on target that is all the reason you need if you want one.
Got a kick out of people comparing this PISTOL cartridge to a 243 rifle cartridge. Try putting the 243 in your pistol lol only your Encore 1 at a time. The TCM moves along @ 2800 fps out of a 20 Inch barrel sounds like fun to me and when you get bored you can load it in your pistol and keep on smiling. Great little cartridge that’s easy to make or reload and not some crazy oddball size caliber that you can’t find bullets for reloading.Great idea Fred Craig.
Fred Craig your my buddy I buy allot of stuff from you.Hope you are still doing good.
Finally I am finding the REAL Shooters!
Got a kick out of people comparing this PISTOL cartridge to a 243 rifle cartridge. Try putting the 243 in your pistol lol only your Encore 1 at a time. The TCM moves along @ 2800 fps out of a 20 Inch barrel sounds like fun to me and when you get bored you can load it in your pistol and keep on smiling. Great little cartridge that’s easy to make or reload and not some crazy oddball size caliber that you can’t find bullets for reloading. Great idea Fred Craig .
s soon as dimensions were finalized and pistols were produced I bought one (ok ordered and waited) meanwhile I ordered dies and reamers and made a singleshot rifle… and was IMPRESSED. because of the ctg SHAPE the pressure curve is sweet and develops fantastic accuracy. A characteristic the .22 hornet is noted for, BUT it exceeds the hornet, it shoots up to 75 grain projos very nicely, the hornet, not so much, so that makes this a nice yote gun as well as smaller. And it takes then down HARD. If there were a decent selection of .17 projos I’d even consider trying a wildcat on it, just for fun.
what about an SMG chambered in .22 TCM? I think that would be badass
The TCM might make a good carbine round in say the TNW carbine, That is if the blow back design can handle it. Then you would have a pistol carbine combo all using the same ammo.
Ha .243 great for hunting what maybe deer but not coyote or fox I hunt them with a 22mag BC that’s all their is anything bigger is a waste of money yeah if your a murderer then use a .243 if u like fox and coyotes to pay for you then maybe it would be smart thinking for 22tcm
A sub 2000 might interesting in 22 TCM.
Why compare the TCM 22 to a 243? The 243 was designed from the start to be a varmint/deer round and killed the 244 that wasn’t capable of using heavier than 85 grain bullets.
The TCM is a 22 mag rifle in a pistol and uses the same bullet Armscor loads in their 22 Mag ammo. I’ve chronographed mine and the 2050 Fps is real. It is faster than the 5.7 and with a heavier bullet from a pistol! The PDW 5.7 might be faster, but has a longer barrel. I reload for mine and ammo is available locally and Cheaper Than Dirt and Midway both carry ammo. http://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=TCM0 Ammo Supply Warehouse carries dies 90.99), brass (19.44/100) and bullets (10.00/100) ammo (18.96/50) and mags (40.00).
Why wouldn’t you want a rifle to match your pistol. It’s basically a 22 Hornet. Brass can be easily made from 223 cases, just cut off, anneal and size. You will never be unable to find brass and any .224 bullet will work. I may even work up a heavier cast bullet load for it.
Mine is fantastically accurate. It’s the most accurate handgun I own. And fun? Wow! That huge report and fireball are impressive. Shoot it at sundown and see.
What is it good for? Small game, varmints and just plain fun.
Why compare the TCM 22 to a 243? The 243 was designed from the start to be a varmint/deer round and killed the 244 that wasn’t capable of using heavier than 85 grain bullets.
The TCM is a 22 mag rifle in a pistol and uses the same bullet Armscor loads in their 22 Mag ammo. I’ve chronographed mine and the 2050 Fps is real. It is faster than the 5.7 and with a heavier bullet from a pistol! The PDW 5.7 might be faster, but has a longer barrel. I reload for mine and ammo is available locally and Cheaper Than Dirt and Midway both carry ammo. http://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=TCM0 Ammo Supply Warehouse carries dies 90.99), brass (19.44/100) and bullets (10.00/100) ammo (18.96/50) and mags (40.00).
Why wouldn’t you want a rifle to match your pistol. It’s basically a 22 Hornet. Brass can be easily made from 223 cases, just cut off, anneal and size. You will never be unable to find brass and any .224 bullet will work. I may even work up a heavier cast bullet load for it.
Mine is fantastically accurate. It’s the most accurate handgun I own. And fun? Wow! That huge report and fireball are impressive. Shoot it at sundown and see.
What is it good for? Small game, varmints and just plain fun. I fitted a 7.62×25 barrel to mine just because I had one. Para P18 mags work well in mine. If required you can mod them like Armscor did.
I think the attraction here is threefold. First, if you have not tried the 22 tcm in the 1911 – you should – it’s flat out fun. Second, when you get 2800 fps in the rifle with 11 grains or powder vs 3 or 4 times that with a 243, I go with TCM. Third, a pistol/rifle combo that has some zip – 2000 fps with a 5″ barrel! Rifle uses the pistol mag with 17 rounds – not many 243s can do that. The 243 is a great round….. if you only have one gun to play varmint chaser with. Personally I think the 22-250 is better but to each his own. (I am not criticizing the 243 it’s a great round)
The .22 TCM is one awesome cartidge. Go view Gunblast.com’s Youtube video review of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KTvDbWdv0s
The .22 TGM penetrates 14″ of ballistics gel AND it poked a 9mm-sized hole right through a 3/16″ piece of steel (due to its expansion) while a +P 9mm only dented the steel plate and bounced off of it.
Geez! This 17+1 round pistol totally punks both the Kel-Tec .22 Win Mag $480 PMR-30 and the insanely priced $1,300 5.7 x 28 FNH Five Seven. Ammo is 50 cents a round, but you can always do a quick flip to 9mm.
The 1911 in .22 TCM with a 7lb recoil spring is the easiest slide to rack in the world! A bunch of these were handed out to SWAT members, and they interviewed a few of them.
Oner of them made a comment that I’m going to “frame” – as in tweet it in a Vine video and post it on Glock’s FaceBook page. TRhe SWAT guy says, and I quote “I like this better than my Glock that always chews up my hands”
I LOVE IT!