“They have my cattle and now they have one of my boys. Range War begins tomorrow.” That’s yesterday’s deeply worrying prediction from one Cliven Bundy, a Nevada rancher who ran afoul of the feds. abcnews.go.com reports that “Bundy’s beef with federal land management officials dates back to 1993 . . . when Bundy’s allotment for grazing his cattle on public land was modified to include protections for the desert tortoise. Bundy, who told the Associated Press his family has been ranching this part of Nevada since the 1870s, continued to let his cattle graze anyway.” So the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) took his cattle. And then, according to mynews3.com, arrested his son . . .
A son of Mesquite rancher Cliven Bundy has been arrested by Bureau of Land Management rangers.
Dave Bundy was arrested at 4:30 p.m. Sunday as he was in a car parked along State Route 170 near Mesquite.
“He was there to do some filming when about 11 federal agents pulled up and arrested him,” Clive Bundy told News 3. “They said he was outside of the First Amendment area and they took him down. We don’t know where he is now.”
The BLM confirmed the arrest in an emailed statement:
“An individual is in custody in order to protect public safety and maintain the peace,” BLM spokeswoman Kirsten Cannon wrote. “The individual has rights and therefore details about the arrest will not be disclosed until and unless charges are filed.”
Yeah, that ought to de-escalate the situation. From examiner.com:
“He was doing nothing but standing there and filming the landscape,” Ryan Bundy said of his brother Dave. “We were on the state highway, not even off of the right-of-way. Even if they want to call [the area that we were filming] federal land; which it’s not; we weren’t even on it. We were on the road.” . . .
“They also had four snipers on the hill above us all trained on us. We were doing nothing besides filming the area,” Ryan added.
This is looking increasingly like the stand-off and federal assault at Waco. Back to ABC:
Bundy compared his situation to citizens’ confrontations with the federal government at Ruby Ridge and at Waco, Texas.
The station quoted him as saying, “They are the same agents who killed that kid over at Red Rocks,” referring to the fatal shooting of a 20-year-old man by two BLM rangers on Feb. 14, near Red Rock Canyon, outside Las Vegas.
Asked by ABC News about that shooting, Cannon said the incident was still under investigation, and that BLM could not comment until the investigation was completed.
Bundy’s wife, Carol Bundy, reached by ABC News, said the family and their supporters intended to hold a rally today “to show that we are not standing alone. People are getting tired of the federal government having unlimited power.”
By noon today Nevada time, about 300 supporters had assembled, a Bundy spokesman, Dwayne Magoon, told ABC News. So, too, he said, had local and federal law enforcement officers. He described the federal agents as being heavily armed. He said that on his way driving to the Bundy ranch, he counted 12 law enforcement vehicles in the course of six miles.
The BLM has described Bundy’s use of the phrase “range war” inflammatory. “We support everyone’s right to exercise their freedom of expression,” Cannon said. But when threats are made, she said, federal authorities have an obligation to ensure safety. She estimated the number of Bundy supporters as being closer to 100.
No doubt gun owners in Connecticut, New York and Maryland are watching the story with interest. As Sgt. Patrick Hayes pointed out in a recent editorial, confrontation with government agents over “assault weapon” and “high capacity magazine” registration is likely to be Federally-instigated. Meanwhile Mrs. Bundy knows what it’s like to go up against the feds. “We’re not pointing guns at anyone but we’re sure getting a lot of guns pointed at us.”
evidently “due process” is one of those Constitutional rights that no longer exist.
Exist it does. It is simply ignored as if it didn’t exist.
Stubborn rancher, infinitely more stubborn, effed-up Federal Agency. I know where my loyalties are.
The Feds need their asses handed to them in a satchel. That’s the only thing they respect, if at all.
I have no money to get there, and even less than no money to survive upon if I did. But I support this rancher.
Exactly. This part should give everyone chills:
“An individual is in custody in order to protect public safety and maintain the peace,” BLM spokeswoman Kirsten Cannon wrote. “The individual has rights and therefore details about the arrest will not be disclosed until and unless charges are filed.”
How can they ‘arrest’ without charges?
I know in the State of SC that that is a gorram FELONY.
This “arrest ’em now, maybe think of something to charge them with later” bandwagon is getting entirely too popular.
The statement is full of doublespeak. The individual has rights. Except those guaranteed by the first, fourth, and probably the ninth amendments. But he has rights.
VERY chilling!
“An individual is in custody in order to protect public safety and maintain the peace,”
What statute permits this?
NDAA.
… That sounds like hostage. I’m not the only one that feels that, right? BLM took this guy’s son hostage. They stole his property, kidnapped his son, and took him hostage.
No, you’re not alone. You described the situation accurately. Terrorism, plain and simple.
But if he didn’t have rights, then they’d have to explain why they’re holding him without charges…
Remember the NDAA? And that pesky “indefinite detention” thing that would never happen?
Time to write Congress.
I read that sentence and all I could think of was “hostage”.
For those unfamiliar with BLM, especially Nevada BLM, they are truly scummy. They started by getting rid of “Motorized Vehicle Use” on much of the BLM land and even includes bicycles, which means a 12 mile walk in the desert to see certain areas that use to be popular. They followed up by fencing off water supply to Nevada’s beautiful wild horses as an excuse to round them all up and sell them to Mexican slaughter houses. Now, the ever over-reaching BLM wants more. What a surprise.
You’re right; they are the lowest of the low.
Pretty sure no mountain bikes came from Congress, in a last minute change on Wilderness Areas, engineered by Enviros, in a deal with DiFi, after promising for years to work with the mountain bike groups.
Sierra Club is no longer old guys in pony tails and batty old ladies in sun-hats, at least at leadership. They are hard core radicals and they are not your friend, nor truly not friends of the land, just their agenda(s) as you can tell as they rotate off on to this or that un-natural issue that has nothing to do with conservation.
I used to ask them sometimes, befpre I got completely jaded – “if you wont open land to the kids, who is going to love it, and to protect it when you drop dead in another 10-20 years”….
very few get it – lots of childless old Boomer NIMBYs is my take, all wanna be Rachel Carsons and John Muirs. (who ironically both had somewhat checkered histories vs the glorified holy icons of the left they have been burnished into over the years). Pretty sad bitter old specimens who dont know when enough is enough on their “taking”.
A former acquaintance (a sheriff’s deputy with a Napoleon complex and a 300# chip on his shoulder) referred to it as a “POP” charge (“P***ing off the Police”). He also seemed to love the saying,”You may beat the charge, but you won’t beat the ride.”
No need to explain why he’s a former acquaintance.
This rancher got the proverbial “sh#t ton” of due process. He’s run his claim all the way through the courts. When he speaks of the many decades his ancestors have ranched the federal land he isn’t telling you what his real contention was: He refused to pay the per-head grazing fee “because his ancestors didn’t.” He had already, with due process, been ordered to pay up and, barring payment, to remove his cattle. He essentially was claiming use-ownership of the land, a limited easement without charge to him for the damage cattle really do cause.
Over-grazing is a constant reality. The grazing fee is low and the profit in pushing the limit in numbers of cattle within one’s grazing permit is high. The land erosion starts to become drastic. The ‘desert turtle’ issue isn’t the main issue in the case.
Thanks for the info. I was kind of wondering what was going on for the twenty years he has been grazing cattle there on a revoked permit. BTW, that talk about the County Sheriff’s “unlimited constitutional authority” is reminiscent of Posse Comitatus (the group, not the act). Any connection that you know of? Not that it would excuse that “arrest now, think of something later if you can” biz, I’m starting to get a bit freaked out by that.
Ok, Ok, You guys don’t know me from hole in the ground but here is what I’ve dug up:
1) per “Guns.com” – Mr. Blevins has been in and out of court with BLM since 1994 over grazing fees and impacts that they wanted him to address. (Hello, we’ve been in a drought since ’91. Thats the reason all the ranchers went away, for about 6-7 years much high desert grazing land looked like Mars, I know, I had to quit too.) He owes about million dollars in back grazing fees for past 20 years. His operation was gigantic, 600,000 acres, this year 900 head. Those lands are extreme marginal. And they turn from short grasses to snakeweed, sage, and saltbush quick when overgrazed, take decades to recover, unless BLM pays for rehabilitation, and if you disturb the ground with blade, it comes up tumbleweeds and bullheads and other useless to toxic growth.(that was not in guns.com report, but me.)
2) Per BLM southern Nevada district office: the Federal Wildlife center funding has been cut so bad, it is closing, and they are looking to rehabilitate healthy tortoises back to natural range areas, adopt some out, and euthanize some (possibly up to 200) of the over 1900 turtles they have been maintaining, that came in from land development projects in Las Vegas and surrounding, Pet owners (people that picked them up in the desert, then didn’t want them anymore.) and in harms way otherwise.Some are too sick, old, domesticated to return to wild, but they are looking for folks to take some of those in. Thanks to all the budget slashers ( an fee scofflaws) there is less money for displaced wildlife programs.
3) My wonderful son, is a Federal Law Enforcement Officer, and Army Reservist. He is real easy going and a man of the people. He does his job well, wants to serve and have support of the communities he serves and protects. And as you know, “orders is orders.” So when you A$$holes start talking all that insurrectionist, gonna take my guns and fight the oppression of the “Gubamint'” well bear in mind, good guys like him with the Peace officer training, law knowledge, professionalism, are who you will throw against. It is not primarily Federal statutes controlling guns. Most states do not allow the carrying in the vehicle of loaded firearms, or ammunition and firearm in same compartment, etc. Have respect for the laws and citizenry of the states you pass thru to get to your battle ground to make stands about issues that you are not fully informed about. Vaya con Dios.
The blm said they are euthanizing about half of the turtles they have. He quit paying fees after they startee to activley try to manage him out of business. He believes the land is and should be state land. As the state is no longer a teritory the federal gavernment has no business owning 80percent of the state.
I personally liked the video of the vlm ranger sneeking up behind a 56 year old woman and throwing her violently to the ground. Why you ask? The blm said it was to save her life. They then tased the guy who helped her up 3 times to little affect. Bad shots I guess.
I wondered how long it would take for you to show up.
Good info, but how does that lead to/justify hi-jacking the guys son?
It doesn’t. BTW, there’s an update at the link, the son has since been released with a citation for, among other things, resisting an officer (never woulda guessed it).
Fine. We’ll re-visit this when you’re forced to pay a “shopping tax”. Breathing tax. Sunshine tax. They’re working out the details right now.
now you’re just being silly.
my state has sales tax so i guess that is a “Shopping tax”
as far as breathing and sunshine taxes, no one has in any seriousness suggested such a stupid thing. a grazing tax to pay for the environmental damage his cattle cause is not unreasonable
What “environmental damage?” can you be any more specific? The plants that the cows eat grow back, you know. And their dung supports a whole nother ecosystem.
But, just to get back on topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI&feature=kp
Really? France is already considering a tax on sunlight. Wake the eff up. The global elite aspire to own EVERYTHING; they can’t stand that regular people own things. They aim to own it all.
They’re insane. Combine power with insanity, you’ve got an extremely dangerous situation
://famguardian.org/Publications/PropertyRights/comgraz.html
History on grazing rights.
The federal government is euthanizing the turtles they claim to protect
Rt.com/usa/desert-tortoises-euthanize-nevada-024/
I agree. We need to pick our battles folks and realize that some of the things these agencies enforce are legitimate. I have seen first hand the destruction caused by over grazing in the BLM areas of Wyoming. These tiny fees these cattle ranchers pay is peanuts and they generally trash the land.
It always boiled my blood to see a small group of people trash streams, creeks and native fauna, thus infringing on my rights to enjoy nature. He had due process and lost. You can only graze so many animals on X amount of land, it’s just common sense.
…and thus the problem with central governments large anough and powerful enough to own huge tracks of land.
@90% of Nevada is government land, mostly federal.
*sigh* *raises BS flag*
Care to clarify the BS flag being raised? Looks to me like ANOTHER government agency out of control. Read the BLM statement. Also, why is there just 300 protesters? Should be 3000. NOW.
Yep. His family was there for generations before the BLM existed. You think grazing fees are a pittance? I’d like to see you struggle to pay some.
It’s public land. It’s SUPPOSED to be grazed. The very idea of the BLM going out and killing tortoises to “save” them is so repugnant that I feel like throwing up….
Try reading some more news reports, especially from the local Nevada papers. Also look into how the BLM suddenly started doing what they were supposed to do in Utah regarding rounding up wild horses after the county threatened to do it themselves if BLM continued not to act. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57770123-78/wild-horses-blm-burros.html.csp
Why are they acting against a rancher but not for Iron County? Could it be because the government hasn’t gotten their protection money from the rancher?
Kindly explain your statement.
Okay, all you chest thumpers and saber rattlers that post comments here about taking on the man. Time to rally around this rancher in Nevada. Load up your gear and get there before the feds close in.
Chris Mallory? Totenglocke? Delbert Grady? Time to nut up or shut up.
…because a gun fight will solve the problem of people using violence to assert their “authority”?
Worked out pretty well the first time.
+100,000.
what was “the first time”?
Happened about 240 years ago. You might have read about it.
Just making sure he was referring to 1776… I’ll go ahead and assume he is…
Yeah, that worked out great, 4 years after ratifying the constitution, the federal government uses it’s military to enforce tax collection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion
The experiment of the world’s most minimalist government has resulted in the greatest war machine ever seen, marching straight on to tyranny.
That’s the thing with experiments. They don’t always give you the results you were expecting. You can either scratch your head and live with the results or change the parameters and try again.
If at first you don’t succeed, that’s one data point.
Troll
How is the “Bureau of Land Management” has armed thugs???
From Wikipedia Law enforcement and security[edit]
The BLM Office of Law Enforcement & Security, headquartered in Washington, D.C., is a federal law enforcement agency of the U.S. government. All Law Enforcement Rangers and Special Agents receive their training through Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC). Law Enforcement Rangers attend the Land Management Police Training (LMPT) academy at FLTEC, while BLM Special Agents attend the Criminal Investigator Training Program (CITP) at FLETC.
BLM Law Enforcement Rangers and Special Agents make up the law enforcement capability of the BLM. Rangers and Special Agents are located in each of the western states that have BLM lands. Law Enforcement Rangers make up the uniformed high visibility enforcement of laws. Special Agents investigate crimes against property, visitors and employees.
Uniformed Law Enforcement Rangers enforce Federal laws and regulations governing BLM lands and resources. Law Enforcement Rangers also enforce some or all state laws on BLM lands. As part of that mission Law Enforcement Rangers carry firearms, defensive equipment, make arrests, execute search warrants, complete reports and testify in court. They establish a regular and recurring presence on a vast amount of public lands, roads, and recreation sites. The primary focus of their jobs is the protection of natural resources, protection of BLM employees and the protection of visitors. They use K-9s, helicopters, snowmobiles, dirt bikes and boats to perform their duties.
Special Agents are criminal investigators who plan and conduct investigations concerning possible violations of criminal and administrative provisions of the BLM and other statutes under the United States Code. Special agents are normally plain clothes officers who carry concealed firearms, and other defensive equipment, make arrests, carry out complex criminal investigations, present cases for prosecution to U.S. Attorneys, and prepare investigative reports. Criminal investigators occasionally conduct internal and civil claim investigations.
or http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/more/law_enforcement.html
What is that every other fed thinks he needs a tin badge and a gun?
Then how do you explain the existence of their SWATs and the BUNCH of ammo that they ordered last year? Do you think they were going to sponsor a three gun for the 4 H?
I was thinking how easy it is to simply add one single letter ‘n’ to go from ‘uniformed’ to ‘uninformed’.
[just sayin’]
Ok, coward, that is what you are, unless you use your real name. Please provide a link to any post of mine suggesting “taking on the man”. I clearly state that we need to disarm all government employees and that every government employee is a no good, lying thief and thug. I have never advocated armed confrontation. Now, you lying coward, nut up or shut up. Provide your evidence or admit you are a lying coward.
If you want to get technical about it, I’m a government employee. You want to disarm me, you’ll have to get in line behind the feds, the state I work in, and the educational system that employs me. Effectively I’m already disarmed.
Or maybe you’re talking about disarming the people who enforce the stupid policies that have effectively removed the Second Amendment rights of so many US citizens. In that case, I’d agree.
How you gonna disarm them ,Chris? Harsh words? Whole lot of government and cop haters comment here. Here’s a chance for you and the rest to put your words into action.
Or were you hoping someone else would do the heavy lifting for you?
Rally around the besieged rancher and force the government to hear your demands. Or keep commenting in a nice safe echo chamber. Your move.
EASY GOES IT, jwm. Stop making enemies of allies.
Try again.
Easy goes it my lily white ass, WB. CM has done nothing but advocate disarming all government people at all levels. Am I supposed to believe he’s so naieve as to think that can be achieved without bloodshed?
A huge chunk of the comments on this site revolve around limiting the powers of gov. Of putting the feds in their place. Out right cop hate. Talk of civil war.
Well here it is. Put up or shut up.
CM is not my ally. I believe in the constitution for all. Regardless of profession or zip code.
What’s a “First Amendment Zone”? Isn’t that, ya know, America?
Not anymore! 1st Amendment only exists where there is a fully intact 2nd Amendment.
That’s what is most troubling to me, and to others on some other forums I visit. For one thing, these zones aren’t even close to where the staging area for the BLM is. Another thing, the federal agents are intimidating people who are in the area. Read this: http://www.reviewjournal.com/columns-blogs/john-l-smith/government-full-force-corral-cattle-first-amendment
I think the whole “First Amendment Area” issue should be made more known to people.
I think it should be made known to Congress. By us. Now.
Unfortunately, from what I can tell, this guy has pretty obviously violated grazing laws, and the entire confrontation was his own dang fault.
That said, the BLM has no business being armed, I doubt they have any authority to seize his cattle, and the only legal limits to a “first amendment zone” are the borders of our country. People can film law enforcement all they want, and there is a lot of recent legal precedent to enforce this.
He did violate the law. But from the sounds of things he violated the law in the same way the gun owners in Connecticut are violating the law. The law changed around them and they refused to comply with the change.
Methinks this is true.
Agreed, but AFAIK the law in this case isn’t blatantly unconstitutional. I don’t remember grazing rights being mentioned in the constitution.
“blatantly unconstitutional. I don’t remember grazing rights being mentioned in the constitution.”
It’s unconstitutional precisely because it is NOT mentioned in the Constitution. There is no explicit protection for grazing rights, because there is no constitutional authority that grants them the power to regulate grazing in the first place.
So, is BLM land a courthouse, post office, port, dock, post road, fort, magazine or other needful building? Did the Feebs pay and get the consent of the state of Nevada? If not then Feeberal ownership of any land is unconstitutional.
Did he violate the law, or did he violate some regulation? This distinction needs to be very clear. Because legislators create law, and executive agencies create regulations (usually, hopefully, based on actual law).
Yes, he has not applied for or received a permit to graze on federal lands (those lands don’t belong to the govt, they belong to you and me, and BLM is managed by our tax dollars). That means he’s been feeding his cattle for free on our land without paying the associated fees for over 20 years!
And because of that, you ate cheaper beef. It’s hard to find data on the web that doesn’t seem badly biased against ranching. Very hard.
And the desert tortoise ruse is transparently phony; the BLM euthanized hundreds of them themselves.
If you are in a business where you need grazing or your inventory is going to starve to death and then your business will go bankrupt perhaps your PROPERTY RIGHTS are at issue? Suddenly Uncle Suger decided you are going out of business. Perhaps some oversight and DUE PROCESS?
He is grazing cattle on land that does not belong to him, and the privilege for which he refuses to pay. He has had his day in court, and he lost. More than once. Therefore, he is just another thief of public resources. End of story.
Assuming they actually have the authority (and hubris) to declare the prior grazing area off-limits to protect the tortoises, they certainly have authority to remove his cattle from that land. Seems like they could have prevented a lot of antipathy if they had simply loaded them up and delivered them back to his ranch, with a bill for the transportation costs.
Everything other than this seems a little high-handed and authoritarian, which also seems to be the general tone of the federal government at this point in time.
Should I order a tin-foil hat, or does all this crap seem like intentional distraction from the failures of the Obama regime locally and internationally? Does this preoccupation with Crimea (which is none of our business) and North Korea seem like an intentional distraction from the dissatisfaction with political events at home and a reason to focus our attention elsewhere and away from Obamacare and police militarization?
Time will tell, but I think they are playing a VERY dangerous political game that will wind up with a lot of dead and bleeding bodies, and not just in this country.
Order a second tin-foil hat, because I’m coming around to the belief that the bleeding is EXACTLY what they’re looking for.
“Should I order a tin-foil hat, or does all this crap seem like intentional distraction from the failures of the Obama regime locally and internationally? Does this preoccupation with Crimea (which is none of our business) and North Korea seem like an intentional distraction from the dissatisfaction with political events at home and a reason to focus our attention elsewhere and away from Obamacare and police militarization?”
Tinfoil hats are optional attire. And you have nailed Crimea to the hilt. It’s a Russian internal affair, and no business of a busybody, aggressive government.
And look who this so-called “uprising” in the Ukraine was funded by: Soros and his ilk. The “demonstrators” were paid to demonstrate. And the resulting “new” government? Neo-fascists to the core, hired with private and State Department shills.
VERY ugly. And there will be more. You can almost set your watch by it.
No, The bozos in DC wouldn’t think of trying to distract their critics by doing this. Urban elites are barely aware of where their food comes from, I’m pretty sure they think ‘ranching’ is something that became obsolete in the 1800s.
I’ll go to Wally World and buy them all the stinkin turtles they want. Just tell me where to send them!
PUBLIC land. You take handouts, you do what they tell you. No sympathy. Besides, someone’s gotta look out for the tortoise.
If this was PRIVATE land, I’d feel very, very differently.
Handout? I’m pretty sure he’s a member of “the public” the same way you and I are. It’s OUR land.
If it’s “our” land, then why are a small number of people granted access to it? Seems like the govt gave some folks a BIG helping hand in order to prop up certain industries, like cattle. I don’t have a big chunk of public land granted to me to use as I see fit. It’s a handout.
Yeah, it sounds to me like this guy initiated the hostilities by ignoring his agreement with the BLM over the grazing rights because “we always done it this way”. So now it’s escalated into a pissing contest between him and the Feds because neither will back down. I’m not going to root for either side on this one, because there ain’t no heroes here. The Feds are clearly abusing their authority, but none of this would have had to happen if this guy had held up his side of the agreement (or kept his cattle on private land).
“someone’s gotta look out for the tortoise.”
With guns and armored vehicles, a willing press to spin the story and the general might of the federal government to do it.
Got it. makes perfect sense.
Bible says we were given “dominion” over all the critters. Evolution says we got to the top of the food chain. Either way, we can do what we want, most of the species that ever existed are extinct, what’s one more. No tortoise has ever done anything for me!
“Top of the food chain”; tell that to the bear or cougar that eats you. What vanity.
“Sometimes you eat the bar; sometimes the bar eats you.”
And that’s the attitude that’s robbing us all of the world’s diversity and beauty. Sometimes I wish the whole “loving guns” thing didn’t come with the Bible/anti-environment/thing. For a group of people so dedicated to self-defense, ruining the environment is the slow bullet that’s killing all of us. Does the stupid tortoise matter? No, probably not. But the mindset that “it’s not human, f— it” is horrifying. But since I know trying to convince OFWGs that preserving the environment is potentially a self-defense issue is pissing in the wind, I’ll sign off.
You’re doing the extreme, off-the-deep-end stuff again. Nobody here has any problem with being kind to Mother Nature. Humans are just as much a part of Nature as any other living thing. The fact that we’ve got the biggest brains doesn’t mean we’re supposed to be the boss of everything. I have a problem with eco-freaks, that use the power of government arms to enforce their personal vision of “saving the environment.” I remember seeing diagrams of coal smoke scrubbers in grade school, in the 1950’s! People don’t want to trash the environment, people want to keep it productive so that we can continue to eat. There are already way more than enough environmental laws to ensure the survival of the planet. They should stop making new regulations.
And something nobody ever tells you about: The Man Who Saved The Whales.
The ones I don’t like are the Theocrats and the Bloodthirsty Warmongers.
+1,000,000,000,000 😀
Not enjoying the best of times here.
The BLM had hundreds of these very same tortoises EUTHANIZED.
EUTHANIZED. It’s for the tortoises.
WHAT “handouts”? I call BS. Please supply supporting evidence. Which you obviously cannot.
Put up or shut up.
I’d be willing to bet my left nut this isn’t about cattle at the bottom of it. This is about the rancher’s water.
See, there’s a wrinkle in Nevada water law: You can have adjudicated water rights on surface water, but you still have to “put it to beneficial use” or lose the water rights. The BLM wants to control water in the west. Control water, you control the land.
Well, the easy way to control water in southern Nevada is to force a grazier off his allotment for more than five years. Five years of non-use, then the BLM will file a protest in the State Engineer’s office contesting the rancher’s rights for non-use. After a hearing, the rancher will have to put his water to use within one year, or lose his rights, no matter how long he’s held them. The BLM simply denies him the ability to turn out for one more year, thereby denying “beneficial use” of the water, and then the rights revert to the state.
The BLM will then apply for the rights on that spring or stream and the Feds now control the water.
Most people east of the 100th Parallel don’t know their buttocks from a warm rock on a sunny day about western water law. The BLM (and the Feds) depend on your ignorance to pull off these types of schemes.
“The BLM wants to control water in the west. Control water, you control the land.”
EXACTLY! And if his family had been ranching there for generations, his claim predates the BLM’s by decades.
Little known facts:
– BLM likes to seize land in the backcountry without compensation.
– BLM REALLY likes to seize mineral-bearing land in the backcountry without compensation.
– Lately, BLM likes to seize water rights in the backcountry without compensation. Great way to control those cranky cities in the Southwest.
– BLM has seized most of what the LA and East Coast gentry refer to as “the West.”
Precisely! And never forget, water is the oil of the future! Whereas wars have recently be fought over oil, wars will very soon be fought over WATER, our most precious natural resource.
As the acequia farmers say in New Mexico, “la agua es la vida.” And who brought the acequia system to the Southwest? Moors, originally brought in as slaves, whose skill and knowledge, dating back to Roman times, turned arid land into a habitat for crops.
“They also had four snipers on the hill above us all trained on us. We were doing nothing besides filming the area,”
I wonder how long before we hear the Feds say they were fired on and had to kill the whole family in self defense.
Why would someone who was “filming” be taken down with what a dozen agents and sniper teams? That doesn’t sound right to me, their seems to be more to this story.
That sounds like BS, like “Oh they just arrested me when I was going to visit my sick aunt in the hospital.” (Forgets to mention the 30 kilos of cocaine and AK47 in the trunk…)
The article said he was filming them while they were rounding up the cattle to be removed. So I see it as akin to the way security cameras magically black out during a no knock raid.
It’s not. Read the link I posted to the Las Vegas Review Journal. Or just Google the story.
Don’t see it. Post it again, please.
A single newspaper story does not balanced reporting make…
Jerk. One day soon your denial will run dry.
I’m with jwm up there. Time for all you keyboard commandos to put your money where your mouth is.
Those turtles must have one hell of a political lobby to have a whole platoon protecting them. And here I thought they had shells on their backs to protect them from things like… hooves.
To be perfectly fair and aboveboard, the ruse was not that the turtles were being trampled. The reasoning – and I do not support it – is that the cattle were eating all the food that the turtles depend upon also.
Of course, there is no evidence provided that this is the case. It’s just a vendetta against ranchers who refuse to pay protection money (“grazing fees”).
It’s the food, not trampling. Though arguably the cattle getting too close or touching them can be equally fatal. Not sure if it was state or federal, but it’s actually a big no-no (a misdemeanor, iirc?) in California to even pick a desert tortoise up off the highway and move them to “safety.” True story: if you touch or move them they frequently take a page out of the Liberal playbook and piss themselves defensively. The unfortunate thing about that is they will sometimes only get the opportunity to actually DRINK once or twice a year and most of the water they take in comes from their food. What they keep in their bladders is actually what keeps them hydrated for most of the dry season and losing it is bad.
Gopherus agassizii is very nearly extinct. My family ran a small rescue and we had a dozen and a half or so hatchlings annually on top of injured/captive surrenders that we placed every year. They cannot be released back into the wild due to a virus they tend to pick up in captivity that has devastated their wild populations. They’re also not exactly “just a turtle” as many in this article have remarked. Deserts are very fragile ecosystems, take a species or two out of the equation and the whole thing can go to complete sh*t. There is absolutely nothing else to fill their niche throughout most of the Southwest.
All that aside; the feds are being thugs (color me shocked) and this farmer is being a dumbass. Honestly, who wouldn’t expect to have the hammer come down after two decades of giving the feds the finger? He’s in arrears something like 1.1M in unpaid fees (and mostly penalties, I’m sure.)
“All that aside; the feds are being thugs (color me shocked) and this farmer is being a dumbass. Honestly, who wouldn’t expect to have the hammer come down after two decades of giving the feds the finger? He’s in arrears something like 1.1M in unpaid fees (and mostly penalties, I’m sure.)”
But his family had been homesteading the land since before the BLM even existed. Isn’t that one of the definitions of ownership?
“Fees”. I demand a monthly fee from Matt Richardson.
@Rich If his family was homesteading it then I’d agree wholeheartedly. They’d also have probably claimed the land and been able to annex it if that was the case. Instead his family has just used it as grazing land, they didn’t/don’t work it. Additionally, other farmers have allowed their cattle to range there over the years as well. Why would this guy have an ownership claim (he isn’t suggesting that he does) and not his neighbors?
He doesn’t think it’s his land either, he just doesn’t want to pay more taxes/fees/fines (can’t exactly blame him) and when he had his day in court over the grazing fees the judge told him to pay up. Whether the fed can/should own land OR charge a fee to the taxpayer for use of it is a separate issue, but Mr. Bundy is in the wrong.
He’s supposed to WORK grazing land? How does that work? Grazing land, by definition, is not worked. It’s GRAZING LAND.
Seems as if you know nothing about grazing, to me. Should he have planted cabbages for the cattle to eat? I don’t understand your thinking at all.
I literally had no idea about “Not so free speech zones” and “1A Exclusion zones”. That is complete BS. I came to this site looking for Tavor reviews about a year ago. I’m a much more enlightened person now. I just can’t believe the how much power, we the people are losing every day to this megalithic bureaucracy machine. I’m broke right now otherwise I’d donate something, but for the love of god keep putting this stuff out there.
Congratulations! You’ve begun to awaken. I’m happy to have you here. Keep looking into things.
It’s your duty as a citizen to investigate, and you’re doing this.
I hope you bought the Tavor
“I literally had no idea about “Not so free speech zones” and “1A Exclusion zones”. That is complete BS.”
They were widely used to pen up those of us who protested the Iraq War. Not a lot of people cared when the authoritarian government enforcing those restrictions on constitutional freedoms was “republican”. But you know how it is, “first they came for…” and all that.
+1000. Or thereabouts. Democratic tyranny is acceptable, but not the Republican kind. Return to the bicameral mind. It’s terrible, not matter who does it.
What country is this? This story has so many WTFs I don’t know where to begin. The BLM has snipers on staff to provide over watch for BLM LEOs enforcing land usage laws? These same snipers were aiming their rifles at American Citizens who were standing on a Nevada public road as they photographed the BLM seizing this man’s property? Mr. Bundy’s son has been arrested and he doesn’t know where he is? The BLM has set up a 1st Amendment zone suspending Constitutional rights except in designated areas? All of it stoked over an environmental group threatening to sue the government ultimately to protect a desert tortoise? This can’t be the United States.
I only know about this what I’ve read here and there are 2 sides to every story but this appears as a massive government intrusion on this man’s rights. I believe in the rule of law. I believe in the Constitution.
I suspect that if this man didn’t have firearms and the will to use them the Feds would have come and rounded him up a long time ago.
Yeah, this is the United States. This is how damned far it’s all devolved (or should that be “[I]progressed[/I]?) in my short lifetime.
+1,000,000. Welcome to Fascism, American Style.
I heard a little while ago that they turned the son loose, in downtown Las Vegas. Didn’t offer him a ride home, and I think it’s pretty far from LV.
Actions speak volumes more than BLM’s self serving PR statements. BLM’s over response with heavily armed tactical force escalates the situation out of control. Oppressive overreach suppressing citizens’ ordinary exercise of everyday Constitutional rights just because federal agents decide to come down hard whether truly authorized or not simply makes independent self-reliant people madder than hell; then these folks become defensive and agitated. Is that what BLM is trying to accomplish? BLM and their Agents are truly earning the moniker ‘jack booted thugs‘ with their excessive ‘beat down’ actions.
This reminds me of the recent EPA task force tactical swat raid in Alaska. As the feds continue to expand their policies of harsh actions and overwhelming tactical force, is this what we all have to look forward to for not meekly succumbing to any command of government to comply with all they demand; beat down under color of law?
Yeah, they’re clearly looking for a fight. One of these days, they’re going to get it, boy howdy.
Reminds me of the Cross base highway by JBLM.. Shortest highway ever made, just to save some squirrels.
Having lived in rural Nevada and dealt with the BLM there, I can attest (and would, in court, on a stack of Bibles 6 feet thick) that there is no group of more mentally handicapped morons running around with badges and guns than the BLM in Nevada.
In general, Nevada is misery duty for Dep’t of Interior employees – that’s state-wide. In particular, The Battle Mountain District of the Nevada BLM is where the Dep’t of Interior sends people that are so stupid, that not even the federal bureaucracy will tolerate them. The BLM sends their “problem” employees to Battle Mountain to force them to live in a place so miserable, that the employees quit the Bureau and thereby solve the BLM’s HR problems for them.
10 years ago, we used to have lots of fun with the BLM Bunny Rangers in the winter. They’d come into a cafe’ or diner along US-50, looking all prim and proper in their BLM outfits… and they’d pull off their winter coat or jacket and there, they’d have a sidearm strapped on.
Knowing a thing or two about the mentality of cops (ie, “I’m better than you, Subject!” and “You will respect mah authoratah!”), we’d reckon they didn’t have a CCW.
Most people here will say “They’re law enforcement, moron, they don’t need a CCW!”
And that’s where you’d be wrong. The vast majority of them aren’t POST-certified, and if you don’t have POST in Nevada, and your agency doesn’t have a MOU with the state, you’re not a LEO, thanks for playing. Most Bunny Rangers had neither POST, nor a CCW, and BLM (last I knew) had no LEO status in the state, as the FBI or DEA does.
So we’d call the Sheriff or a Deputy over and say “I would like to swear an affidavit that I just saw that person over there reveal that they were carrying a concealed weapon. If you ask them, I’m sure you’ll find that they don’t have a CCW permit and they’re not POST certified.”
Now the Sheriffs and Deputies would look uncomfortable – that whole “thin blue line” crap would start kicking in. A couple of times, a Deputy who was real pro-RKBA would hassle the BLM about this, threatening to write them up if they didn’t put their heater in their trucks.
Most of the time, the sheriff/deputies would just look the BLM employees over, and the majority of the time, the Bunny Rangers would beat a hasty retreat out of the diner (often trying to stiff the waitress – which is wholly in character for them), back into their pale green trucks and down the road they’d go.
The BLM in Nevada has a long history of abuse of authority, on everything from stealing private property off a ranch, to abuse of authority under the color of law, to stepping well outside their authority and jurisdiction – to an absurd point where they’ve been known to pull over ranchers on county roads and try to issue “tickets” for non-functional tail lights, missing inspection stickers, etc. They have no authority anywhere but on BLM lands, which is a large chunk of Nevada (thanks to the fools who were all hot and bothered to get Nevada into the Union before the Civil War came to a close), but they can do nothing to you on a county, state or federal road. They can’t do anything to you in town. They can’t stop you on BLM lands and demand to see your hunting license (which they’ve also tried to do, with hilarious results). They can cite or arrest you for damaging the public lands they administer and any cultural artifacts thereupon. That’s it.
People wonder why I’m so anti-cop. After my experiences with the LASD & LAPD, the BLM is next in the parade of “morons with badges who shouldn’t be allowed near a sharp stick, much less a gun.”
I’ve read similar stories about a jackwagon USFS cop who ran around enforcing California guns laws–and mostly he was wrong. He had authority to do so from the Sheriff, but it got so bad the sheriff pulled his authority. He was quickly transferred to another jurisdiction where he could continue his jackwagon ways. I
Thanks, DG. That was very enlightening. I think I’m going to save it. So much said in so few words.
I lived about 250 yards from the Taos BLM office, so I already knew some of the story. Saw those pale green vehicles every day. Friend of my daughter was the daughter of the head guy there.
Actually according to both common law and federal law he owns the land. Equating rights. Also the government has no rights under any law to STEAL his cattle and sell it off. As according to the report he actually owes no money to anyone.
They hope to make an example out of him and, as usual, they are making far more enemies than allies.
They don’t care; they’re “from the Government”.
“…and they’re here to help.”
Utter nonsense. The courts say you are wrong, and they are not “stealing” cattle, they are rounding up trespassing cattle–which they have the same right to do as any private property owner. You can’t turn your cows out on someone else’s land and not pay for the privilege, and expect that landowner to round them up and deliver them to your doorstep when you are ready to take them to market. Even if we are to assume a public “commons,” the government has the right, duty, and the authority to regulate the commons to prevent waste and degradation of a common resource, to license the commons for the use of a few, and to otherwise treat the commons as private property for the good of the entire community, not just for the benefit of one user who would abuse his privilege.
“You can’t turn your cows out on someone else’s land and not pay for the privilege,”
It’s NOT “someone else’s land”, it’s PUBLIC land. And you are SO hung up on the “privilege” bullshit.
You actually believe it’s the role of government to hand out “privileges”?
You are a self-made SLAVE. I am ashamed for you.
Since methane-laden cow farts contribute to global warming, I’m sure that the EPA will be along soon to throw the metaphorical gasoline on the proverbial fire. Which, by the way, will also contribute to global warming.
Personally, I’d rather fight a dozen BLM snipers than one EPA assh0le with a clipboard.
Public land, hate to say it but the rancher is at fault. His family may have been ranching in the area for generations but seeing as it’s not his land he has to go by their rules.
Because you say so? Because the government is God? Please do explain your boot-licking fetish for us.
The government loves to use language to fool people into thinking what they want people to believe.
“Public land” is about as truthful as “Social Security is your money.”
In the west, there is a concept called “split estate.” There can be a lot of private property rights on “public lands.”
I think you have a lot to learn about “public” lands….
I keep seeing this Arrest now and charge later BS happening.
What I don’t see is how they are getting away it.
It’s simple:
4th Amendment:
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized”
Probable cause: (To Arrest)
“information sufficient to warrant a prudent person’s belief that the wanted individual had committed a crime (for an arrest warrant) or that evidence of a crime or contraband would be found in a search (for a search warrant)”. “Probable cause” is a stronger standard of evidence than a reasonable suspicion, but weaker than what is required to secure a criminal conviction. Even hearsay can supply probable cause if it is from a reliable source or supported by other evidence, according to the Aguilar–Spinelli test.
Aguilar-Spinelli:
“The two “prongs” of the test are that, when law enforcement seeks a search warrant and a magistrate signs a warrant:
The magistrate must be informed of the reasons to support the conclusion that such an informant is reliable and credible.
The magistrate must be informed of some of the underlying circumstances relied on by the person providing the information.
This information provided to a magistrate will allow the magistrate to make an independent evaluation of the probable cause that a crime has been or will be committed.”
We now use Totality of the Circumstances as the probable cause test, but Aguilar is still on point.
You simply cannot just arrest someone without meeting the above standard. If they arrested this guy they are required to at least file charges for a warrant.
When I arrest someone I am REQUIRED to do one of two things:
1.Issue a citation (Arrest by citation) ( Usually traffic offenses )
2. Fill out a warrant application. This includes my probable cause for the Magistrate.
An exception is arrest by warrant, where a warrant has already been issued.
That is the only way it can be done.
SC takes it further to step of codifying a penalty (it’s a felony) for a law enforcement officer to “arrest” or “take into custody” anyone without TRUTHFULLY providing the crime committed. Cf SC Title 17.
If that dude makes it out of custody alive, he’s got a mother of a 1983 Lawsuit to file I think.
That this sort of thing is becoming a more common practice (we’ve read about two in the last 2-3 days on here alone) is truly frightening. Soon it will be people “disappearing” in the middle of the night to no one knows where.
Yep. Things like this give me goosebumps. 1984 was a LONG time ago. We’re in ALICE IN WONDERLAND territory now; black is white and white is black. Behold the looking-glass.
They arrested his kid to blackmail him, Sounds like lawsuit city is going to be the Order oF the day.HE needs to keep the media circus going and embarrass the crap out of the GOV!
No, they rustled his cattle and kidnapped his son to bait him into doing something so they can kill him and get away with it.
Correct.
Yep; how obvious can it be?
Our “by the people, for the people” government has become a monster.
The US Army has been “protecting” the stupid “Desert Tortioise” for decades at NTC/Ft Irwin.
This is what much of the DOD budget ACTUALLY goes to. And environmental cleanup, green BS, Breast Cancer Research. Not nasty old war stuff.
http://www.deserttortoise.org/abstracts/abstracts2002/2002abs29.html
““We support everyone’s right to exercise their freedom of expression except where we say they can’t,” Cannon said. “And we’ll shoot anyone who says we don’t,” she added.
Fixed it for her.
+10,000
“But when threats are made, she said, federal authorities
have an obligation to ensure safety.”
Sounds to me that the ones who started the threats and
escalated them is BLM. The only difference is that Bundy
has the stones to threaten them right back.
All this over some f#&$ing turtles. Fascism indeed. Godspeed Mr. Bundy.
HINT: It’s not about the turtles at all. It’s about a naked show of force by the government.
From a news article: “The trouble started when Bundy stopped paying grazing fees in 1993. He said he didn’t have to because his Mormon ancestors worked the land since the 1880s, giving him rights to the land.”
Through two judges have ruled against him, he refuses to change. One problem:”“Despite having no legal right to do so, cattle from Bundy’s ranch have continued to graze throughout the Gold Butte area, competing with tortoises for food, hindering the ability of plants to recover from extensive wildfires, trampling rare plants, damaging ancient American Indian cultural sites and threatening the safety of recreationists,”
The bottom line for me is that he was paying to graze cattle. No problem. Then he stopped. His choice. This is similar to a renter that stops paying rent. Do you just let him do so?
The BLM and Forest Service are required to produce money. Timber sales, mining, and grazing are some of the major revenue sources. In theory, BLM could have allowed another rancher to pay and graze the same land.
Lots of opinions here. But this is an no win situation for the Bundies.
The US Federal Government owns almost 85% of Nevada. Also from 1/3 to 2/3 of the other Western States. While these lands are referred to as “Public Lands”, in essence they belong to the various Federal agencies that regulate and oversee the lands–Bureau of Land Management, US Forest Service, US Park Service, Bureau of Indian Affairs, etc. And don’t forget other regulatory agencies who have presence in these states big time like the EPA. In other words, you can’t spit without hitting a piece of Federal land just about everywhere. If you live there and want to work on the land, you are going to be up against so many bureaucratic regulations and obtuse decision makers you will not be able to get through the day without breaking somebody’s rules, often arbitrary in nature. Forget the rule of law. It doesn’t apply to regulators. Well, it does but they just ignore it and do as they please. If you attempt to fight them by legal means you are looking at years of stonewalling and many thousands or millions of dollars that most individuals who work ranches or farms out there don’t have. The corporate ranchers and corporate farmers have the money but they use it for lawyers who keep them from ever getting sideways of the Feds. These corporations could give a rat’s ass about the private ranchers and farmers making a living on the land.
I sympathize with the Bundies. Now what? I don’t know. Armed confrontation with a Federal regulatory agency will get you dead by SWAT team from every Fed cop around from the FBI to the US Postal Service. Those guys just live to pop the cap on someone. And once the smoke clears, the Feds always come out the winners and the good guys because they control the information. If you go against the Feds, they will let the world know you were involved in an “armed confrontation”, refusing to comply with law enforcement officers while “barricading” yourself with an “arsenal” in your “compound”. All code words guaranteed to make you out the bad guy before the media and the public.
The alternative to dying for the cause is to kiss Federal ass or start a legal proceedings that will go on into future generations and bankrupt you ten times over.
The sad part is, people will read this and STILL live in their government supplied mental paradise. Some will refuse to wake up.
Le sigh. If the information is correct, I suspect the BLM will make the first move. What follows that is merely conjecture
It Certainly seems like a dangerous game our government agencies are playing. In 1774/1775 the Governor of the Colonies and Commander of the occupational forces sent to subdue American Colonists, General Gage, staged a series of powder raids to seize the stores of “The Kings” gunpowder stored in various locations withing the Boston area.
His first raid was successful, however the colonists believed the powder to belong to them, as they had paid for it and made preparations for It’s care.
This caused such anger and resentment among the colonists around Boston, that within 24 hours of the news there were over 20,000 Colonists under arms and on the roads making their way toward Boston. There were several subsequent raids, However, due to colonial intelligence gathering none of the following raids were successful.
But the thing General Gage did not see, was that the continued false sorties and alerts over the raids had caused the colonists to set up networks of intelligence gathering groups as well as causing the colonists to set up plans, communications systems and support networks for the militia which began to train in earnest when the raids began.
Gage was, in effect, training the colonists for the eventual confrontation which would occur on April 19th, 1775. By the time the British Regulars went out on the 18th, the colonists had everything in place to meet and defeat the initial detachment of Gage’s troops, even when augmented by General Percy’s relief Brigade and force them to retreat to and be sealed up in Boston for the next year until Boston Heights was occupied and fortified with cannon and the British forces were forced to evacuate Boston by sea.
Just saying……
Look up some of Vin Suprynowicz’s reporting on the desert tortoise. They die off when cattle are removed from the land and thrive when cattle are there.
Vin Suprynowicz is, and always has been, utterly awesome. It appears the turtle and cattle enjoy a kind of symbiotic relationship. The BLM undoubtedly knows this, but they are looking to push someone around, and it happens to be ranchers. At the moment.
There are so many volatile situations scattered across the globe right now, I need a flow chart to keep up with them. How’s things in Connecticut? That all cleared up yet? Lobster in every pot, rifle in every safe?
I hear it’s open season on BLM agents; 15 cents a head. Bag em’ and tag ’em.
“Bag em’ and tag ‘em?”
I’d heard “Shoot, Shovel, and Shut up.” >:-> [<– impish smiley]
Junior Samples, is that you? Go on to Mesquite, Neveda with your firearm. Tell us how it goes for you.
stick to RKBA, this ain’t
Can see the concerns about range carrying capacity, and the lease of grazing lands has a century of precedence so those are valid land mgt concerns..
Most fed LEO (my experience is with USFS special agents, have some MOU with the local LEO sometimes being deputized by the local agency. In that case the BLM would have more authority on a state or county road. If the road was BLM they would have authority w/o question.
And we all know that limiting public info in barricaded subjects is SOP.
William Burke, you
Must big a big man to talk shit from behind a keyboard. How about you grow up and be respectful. I highly doubt ou would have responded in the manner you did if we were having this conversation in person, unless your a complete ahole.
As somebody with experience in LE at the federal level I will say this, I left my agency when I noticed a shift in the powers that be. So no I don’t have a “boot licking fetish”.
BITE ME, Copper.
Maybe the elected local sheriff may just act as another sheriff did recently when the feds came in on another rancher to take away his cattle and the sheriff warned them that their federal agents would be facing his SWAT team on the rancher’s land defending the rancher? Maybe just maybe, the chief legal officer in that area will get the testicular fortitude and will defend what is right and his local constituent against the over-reacting and over-reaching feds. Maybe, just maybe.
I’ve read enough to say its 50/50. This particular case has been going on for years. In 09 it was settled finally in court, I don’t think BLM wants this, they have ignored him for over 5 years.
You never see a Congressman or Senator involved. I don’t really blame BLM, this case was picked up by someone in the Justice Dept and pushed. . . Guess who.
They wouldn’t do anything w/o Holders approval as that’s the final final step before guns, tanks, air strikes w/napm and MRAPS are used.
My guess is that the feds don’t give a squat about desert tortoises; some geologists probably found lithium or some other deposits on the land and are holding onto the information until the Bushes, Clintons, Feinsteins or other traitors can posture themselves to rape the entire landscape.
No doubt, after assessing the areas newfound wealth, the desert tortoise will just get squashed under the bulldozers in the name of national security.
EXCELLENT.
A rare intelligence, yours. You can clearly see, which is a rare thing indeed, I salute you, sir.
Outside the “First Amendment Area”, hopefully inside the “Fourth Amendment Area” that extends 100 miles from the border. Where does the 2nd amendment area run to and from?
“Outside the “First Amendment Area”, hopefully inside the “Fourth Amendment Area” that extends 100 miles from the border. Where does the 2nd amendment area run to and from?”
Ask the wrong question, and you’ll always get the wrong answer. I’m frankly a bit surprised someone could actually ask so stupid a question. Where did you study government, Inner Earth?
You really need to take the obnoxiousness down a notch. It’s perfectly acceptable to disagree without being a jerk about it.
Sure thing, Matt. No place in America for obnoxiousness. One size fits all.
William, you’re drunk. Go home and sleep it off.
I appreciate your tenderness and concern, Rich. In fact, I’m touched to the bone. If only you knew what you’re talking about.
Kissy-kiss-kiss!
He spent 20 years grazing his cattle on land he was told NOT to graze on. That it took the Feds two full decades to get around to doing something about his brazen thumbing his nose at the government is the sad part.
Go lick a boot, slave.
See my previous comment, about one screen up. Thoroughly unnecessary and non-contributory. Dial it back in general, please, and eliminate this sort of thing entirely.
There is that. I think there is more to this story, including some background I’d want to get from locals, first. ff
But also hearing the negative comments on BLM staff – lesser competence and loyalties- to be fair I’d want to know more on them too, but of course, you’d have to go again to the locals. The couple BLM rangers I’ve met have been very cool, helped find good places to shoot, hunt, etc out in Imperial Valley District.
One thing I’ve noticed is as the older generation of USFS and Park people roll out, the younger cohort is much more politically correct, not a lot of hunters in the mix, and some fairly “radical” enviro types. Watch Wild Justice on Discovery to get the flavor of CA Dept of Fish and Game Wardens attitudes.
Also apparently some environmentalists sued BLM to force their hand, which doesnt surprise me, and if they are like other enviros and their lawyers that I have come in contact with, they are less about “the environment” than power, and money, sadly, and I’ve seen signs of collusion with some agencies, on issues, thats not up-and-up. But thats politics.
Bottomline- if the rancher has known about this for twenty years, I’m less sympathetic- despite the aw shucks demeanor, he seems pretty savvy, and mentions how he is working the media, as I would in his shoes – but one red flag in all the rhetoric is this- I dont think its cool to threaten “physical action” and put his family at risk from snipers, if that’s really true.
Unfortunately, we know from past experience that lesser trained federal agents from out of the area can make a mistake, that they might not be so willing to risk in their own community, and the rancher would regret losing a family member, no matter whose fault.
Everyone needs to keep a cool head out there in the desert…gonna be another long hot summer.
“land he was told NOT to graze on.”
Was told by whom, on what pretext, and under which Enumerated Power of the Constitution? Because some know-it-all college boy proclaims that those tortioses are endangered? Didn’t I read a post here saying that the tortoises actually do better when there are cattle there?
@rlc2
It’s impossible to get all the facts unless one goes out there and talks directly. The whole “it’s been going on fer 20 years” thing does make me wonder who has been the stubborn one here. I’ll admit I’m quick to throw the .gov under the bus (90% of the time they belong there) but 20 freaking years?! Even our government isn’t THAT slow.
I feel that if the Feds don’t back their arrogant asses down , that they will cause a situation that will probably end up in a true range war , but of course they will blame it on the citizens , that they will undoubtedly have to fire upon due to them being pushed too far , I used to be a deputy and I can tell you that I did not like having to work with about 90% of these bureaucrats at all , they walk all over everyone’s rights and don’t care because they have the big government behind them , but more people are waking up to this federal abuse of citizens rights in this nation , there is the push now from every direction trying to force the people to bow to the will of the power hungry in DC . Be prepared and ready . Keep your powder dry .
N.E.V.A.D.A
Never
Ending
Very
Agonizing
Dead
Area
://famguardian.org/Publications/PropertyRights/comgraz.html
Rt.com/usa/desert-tortoises-euthanize-nevada-024/
http://www.youtu.be/90LtLwXXnp4
http://www.infowars.com/nevada-governor-blasts-feds-first-amendment-area-in-bundy-dispute/
There is Elk, deer, antelope… used to be herds of buffalo. Destruction by grazing… you people are morons.
I can’t believe how many people keep saying its not his land to use. It is his land it’s your land it’s my land. The BLM does not own that land we the people own that land. Therefor if he cant use that land then i suppose that it means mountain bicyclists can no longer use it, niether can hunters, hikers, not even simple onlookers or desert tortouise enthusiasts. Dont even look at it cause its not yours to look at. Right? Use your heads people you cant keep our land from the people. And the feds shouldn’t be able to claim land that was never there’s to take.
Sunds like the government is doing everything possible to instigate a shooting war with its population. That will not end well for the government.
Why did the Bundy’s stop paying the grazing fee to BLM in the first place?
BLM, the USFS, Interior and others are notorious for charging way less for the pasture, or oil and gas fields or lumber to be extracted than what it would bring on the open market.
Was there some kind of financial dispute that caused the Bundy’s to stop paying the grazing fee?
The blm was formed to help ranchers in management of the range part of the fees is supposed to go to range improvements. Rather the blm is useing the fees to buy the water rights and geazing rights of ranchers, and to herass them to leave. When cliven saw they where mismanaging the range he quit paying them. Not a good move on his part. Even though they where managing him out of businesses. When offering to buy his rights didn’t work they claimed the tortoise was being hurt. Even though the blm is euthanizing the same turtles. Look up what is ment by grazing rights. He has them. Look up water rights. He has them. Both are being rode rough shod over. Not to mention his first ammendment rights. And God forbid he exercize his second ammendment rights that would be an excuse to shoot him
This is all about land control. Nothing to do with turtles. Anyone here reading this who hasn’t familiarized themselves with Agenda 21 should do so. Another couple is having their land taken away in CO by way of eminent domain….to create open space. Cases like this are all over the US. They want the serfs out of the outlying areas and into the cities, and they’ll get it because most of us are too ignorant or too mesmerized to care.
Absolutely Agenda 21; you are right on the mark, sir.
He had his land and his rights long before the BLM was ever created, in the family since the 1800s…all we have to do is come together, unite to refuse and resist the armed tyranny. They can only count upon our continued division, media manufactured biases, and disinterest in their incremental push against America and her Constitution…
The feds can aggressively round up another mans cattle and get rid of them. But when it comes to illegal Mexicans, rather than rounding them up and getting rid of them, the feds give them free phones, SSI, food stamps, free medical and schooling.
The most galling thing was to separate the calves from their mothers in calving season. They will not last long, and there is also danger of the mothers’ udders bursting with all that milk.
Government only respects violence. It is time they earned our respect.
You need to tell us your real name so we know what example to follow when we see your name in the news. I mean, you are going to back up your words with action, right?
How is that helpful, Matt?
I’m just pointing out that folks often use tough words when they’re not required to back them up due to anonymity. I don’t consider inciting general violence to be helpful, and that’s what the above comment is. So very often we see comments like the one above from folks who would likely do nothing more than sit on the sidelines and watch if and when the shooting starts (and thank the deity of their choice that it’s not them involved).
So, when someone makes a flat statement that “someone” should start shooting revenuers or voting from the rooftops or whatever, my response is and ever shall be, “You first.” If you believe what you say, show us how it’s done.
If anonymous up there thinks that it’s time to do violence to the government (whoever he determines that to be) in order to engender their respect, then he should be out there in Nevada gearing up and supporting the Bundys, not anonymously inciting others to do so on a random website.
I understand, but I don’t see his comment reached the level you’re talking about.
I have a recording session tomorrow, and I can never sleep the night before one.
One sign I’m not a pro.
The BLM’s first responsibility is to manage our public land for us. Under Multiple Use, logging, mining, oil, gas, coal, etc. can be developed. Nothing says that ranchers have any “right” to graze. They have permits that are granted with certain requirements. If they do not hold up their end, they can lose their permits. It is long past time for the Bundy Ranch to lose all permits and pay its fees and fines.
Thank you BLM for finally acting.
You are being tested, be certain that you pass your test.
http://books.google.com/books?id=rSZEAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA561&lpg=PA561&dq=grazing+1877&source=bl&ots=Wy2zcS46T6&sig=RsjFqMSfoIlq0NtvWKt7j-4RAcM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2FpIU4OuBqbi2wWLzIGoCA&ved=0CDoQ6AEwCQ
Here is an example of grazing rights not the range management fees that the blm charges.look up water rights. Water rights also gives the right to forage. These rights the Bundy family had before the BLM existed. Yes the BLM is using force to enforce their unlawful regulations. The most obvious is the ‘first amendment zones’. Something everyone understands, unlike water rights.
Good example of when water and land rights merge over land rights.
These rights where given and maintained through beneficial use, on public land such as the desert that was otherwise unused. To help develope the west and for the benefit of all.
Here is another example of the smame thing happening to the Hage family http://4thst8.wordpress.com/2013/06/14/newspaper-column-federal-judge-slaps-down-federal-land-agents/
How can this go on with no accountability?
They didnt get mad and stop paying their fees but still got kicked off by the blm. They won their case in court. But the vlm is keeping it in appeals until the whole family dies or is bankrupt.
Everyone should email their congressman and senator! Do it now! Here is s link to find them;
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml
To put things into perspective as to what is going on in this country I recommend that everyone watch this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFesKJRz8bQ
The cattle ranchers from Nevada and across the U.S. are calling Bundy a deadbeat and Welfare rancher while they pay their grazing bill willingly. They get a good deal from the federal government to graze their cattle compared to paying private landowners. They pay $1.35 per head to BLM when private landowners charge $25 to $35 per head.
Beyond paying a grazing fee, federal lands ranchers are responsible for managing the land and resources, including caring for wildlife habitat, managing noxious weeds, and decreasing potential wildfire fuels. While the relationship between the federal government and ranchers is a well-understood business agreement in most cases, for one Nevada the rancher, the relationship has turned south.
Bundy and his family previously held grazing permits on approximately 600,000 acres in an area owned by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management called Gold Butte. In 1998, this land was declared habitat for the desert tortoise, which is protected under the Endangered Species Act, making it off limits for cattle grazing.
The Bundy’s battle with the BLM started five years earlier. The family stopped paying the federal grazing fee for the land in 1993. According to Bundy, he owes the federal government back-fees totaling approximately $300,000. BLM, however, estimates that figure is more than $1 million.
In July 2013, Bundy was issued a third Court Order directing him to remove his livestock from the land within 45 days. If the animals were not removed, according to the Order, they could be seized by the BLM. Since that time, the family refused to comply with the Order.
The fact of the mater is that the BLM is trying to get rid of ranchers. That is why Bundy is the last rancher in Clark county. That is why Wayne Hage won his court case. He documented how the BLM acts towards ranchers.
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If the BLM is worried about fees why have they not payed the Hage family as ordered by the court?
It is not true what you say about ranchers calling him a dead beat. Those that understand the situation, those that ranch in the western states in the desert who actually have to work with the BLM and Forest Service stand by him.
Yeah, thanks for saying that. I very much doubted that statement also.
“In 1998, this land was declared habitat for the desert tortoise, which is protected under the Endangered Species Act, making it off limits for cattle grazing.”
Bingo! After 100 years of a perfectly good deal, they arbitrarily up and designated it “protected,” seized control and started harassing him, all on the pretext of some tortoise, while the real deal is it was a grab by some Harry Reid crony to give a sweetheart deal to some no doubt environmentally well-connected Chinese solar power company.
THAT is what the protest is about.
Do you see the point of the protest now?
“some Harry Reid crony”
The crony is Rory Reid, Harry’s son and proxy criminal. The “kid” fronts for Harry’s criminal empire.
Jews Ordered to Register in Eastern Ukraine:
http://patriotupdate.com/2014/04/jews-ordered-register-east-ukraine/
ON THE INTERNET, no one can hear you scream.
This is the sort of thing Putin sought to protect the Crimeans from.