Historical Are You Old Enough to Know Why This is Funny? By Grace Stevens - February 4, 2023 69 Facebook Twitter Pinterest WhatsApp Email ◀Previous Post Next Post▶ Hint ◀Previous Post Next Post▶
Yes. I was issued a ratty m16 that didn’t even have a forward assist. Nobody liked them. We all conspired to get back up weapons because we did not trust our lives to them.
Nobody much cared for the old m60 either.
M16A1 was a step in the right direction. Agree with you regarding the ’60… ours were the worst of both worlds: heavy AND subject to reliability issues everytime someone at brigade level had to ” borrow” them (wire braid retaining the gas plug was always messed with, turning them into an open bolt single shot).
240 is a huge improvement but still way too heavy compared to a PKM or Pechneg series.
240 was always too heavy till you needed it then it got substantially lighter somehow. 249 had a similar situation.
guys used to say the same thing about the BAR….
Some things don’t change no matter how many generations of new gear we get. With that said if they can get that squad/team/individual level battle computers with hud interfaces interacting with nvg/thermal and objective/hostile relative location up and running that would be more than a bit different and even more like video games.
It sucked humping that sh!te around–especially the ammo, spare barrel, and tripod. But yes–substantially lighter when firing at the rapid or cyclic rates.
I had one issued M60 that actually worked well. I liked to carry it because it was a little bit of counter balance to my ruck. Loved that old girl, she was always ready to party.
BCT I was issued a XM16, it was louder walking with than when it was fired. I remember when we were issued A2’s and turned in our A1s at my 2nd duty station. Spent about a week shooting up that free Army ammo. Same old aluminum mags, 28 rds loaded because you know why.
You didn’t even have the green follower versions at that point did you? Those were fine for 30 they just had issues in the m4 if anything (especially using it as a bipod) pushed against them. Seemed fine in the 16a2/4 though.
We were told that the forward assist wasn’t needed, before heading to the Nam. Luckily the rifles we received as Marines, while being Army castoffs, did have the assist. Considering how much the M-16 jammed, I can’t imagine not having an assist in combat.
Yep. After about 900 rounds you either clean it or use the forward assist when dropping the bolt on a full mag.
You certainly don’t want to be cleaning the gun while under fire, so if it doesn’t have a forward assist it is better suited to be a prybar, a step stool, etc. and steal the AKs from the enemy.
Some models of the AR-10 had a charging handle that could work as a forward assist?
I had a SP1 with a slick-side upper. Never needed a forward assist. I used cheap factory ammo and not reloads.
I have yet to need a forward assist, on rifles with, and rifles without the F.A. The 16 wasnt my favorite rifle (the AK gets that prize). But it had zip to do with any Forward Assist. Just sayin, YMMV…. The problem with the 16 had more to do with faulty ammo and unchromed chamber/barrels.
“Jammin Jenny” wasnt a myth
Kyle Rittenhouse would disagree.
“I had a SP1 with a slick-side upper. Never needed a forward assist.”
Someone explained to me that the forward assist was much less about clearing a jam than it was about being able to *quietly* chamber a round.
You pressed the forward assist after quietly moving the bolt forward to ensure that the weapon was fully in battery.
Or was that in error? All my AR uppers have the forward assist, and I kinda like the idea of being able to quietly chamber a round, if need be…
I only ever used mine on a range in competition.
For that it was great. Never had any malfunctions aside from 3 rounds (in over 4000) that didn’t fire when the primer was struck. The ammunition was Norinco “yellow box”.
Sorry Geoff, but the forward assist has zero to do with “quietly” chambering a round and is there for fail to feed malfunctions.
Here’s an article about the forward assist from TTAG.
According to it, you are both right.
The S&W M&P15 Sport 1 did not have a forward assist or dust cover.
In 2016 the M&P15 Sport II added both.
Both are great mid grade ARs and used to be at the $400 mark which is entry level. I have never had to use a forward assist for any reason.
Yup, if you’re not at least 70 years old, you won’t get it!
Depending on your national guard armory and how old your ammo was of course. Only as far back as A2s with mid 80’s leftovers for me but we had people who remember training with M3’s and some model of earlier 16.
But look where it got us now 😉
The modern “M4” is a beautiful weapon and credit where it’s due. Modularity has given us SO many options and it’s all still based off the same design.
But of course, haters gonna hate. Just be thankful what you are holding is not Chinese or Russian. Or German for that matter… Not that any of them make bad weapons, but ‘Murica or gtfo.
The AK is at heart the M1 Garand turned upside down. It’s the most American rifle built by a Soviet. 😉
Advances in ammo certainly helped but Lego level standardization is awesome for development.
Someone on Twitter told me that button on the right side of an AR-15 switches it to automatic fire … or something.
not unless you have a full auto bolt carrier… then the ‘switch’ on the side turns the civilian AR into a full auto firearm as heavy as 10 boxes one might be moving that fires 8 .50 cal bullets per round anyone of which can so completely vaporizes a person that not even DNA or any trace the person ever existed can be found…. according to the collective ‘wisdom’ of Biden, democrat politicians, Twitter geniuses, The Trace and The GVA.
Right Arm Of The Free World 😉
They are so expensive these days. I’m a DSA dealer, but still, big bucks.
John Garand designed the M1 to apologize for being Canadian
And the Lord spake from the Bush. And it was so. And then the Archangel Michael cleared his throat and begged forgiveness before before he spoke. “My Lord, what of the FAL, 1903, Mauser? Are they all to be cast aside”? And the Lord put a hand upon Michael and said, “This is why you are a warrior.” If it didn’t happen that way, it should have.
On my last trip to genuine tiger country 30 years back I had choices of FAL in 7.62, M16a2, Styr in .223 or several 9mm’s
I took the FAL
Can’t go wrong with a quality 7.62 NATO piston gun.
It’s the rifle to grab when you can only take one.
Back it up with a Mark 23 loaded w/45 Super and you’re ready for almost anything.
No love for the Galil? 🙂
hard to beat that HK91…accurate as a deer rifle….hard hitting .308..not that heavy with all that plastic…just a superior weapon all around…except for the full-auto option…all that does is increase the value…substantially, of course…
Had a co-worker who owned a FA HK-91 in the 1980s.
We got thrown out of a few ranges on Long Island for letting it loose. 🤣
The M14 was and continues to be trash.
It wasn’t so funny to the guys that had to depend on that POS to stay alive…
Most folks who buy those want something that looks like from 10 feet what they had back in their glory days. A friend has one and really wanted some early style dimpled pivot and takedown pins I had so I gave them to him…no further contributions have been made to retro, not my bag.
The things that shape your life can be so simple at first. I first saw them on TV when I was 5 or so. When Morley Safer and Walter Cronkite were names you would hear. That rifle with the handle. And the Colt 45. 60 years ago now.
My first AR HAD to have a carry handle and it still does. And I have never once considered buying a wheel gun. All I have are semi auto tupperware.
What’s wrong with the dimpled pins?
I was told that’s for being able to use an ammo cartridge in a pinch, if necessary to take it down…
The original dimpled pins weren’t captured, so you could push them out of the receiver and lose them. You can still push the undimpled pins with a cartridge.
The rifle in the illustration is the AR180, for being made the same time period it was decades ahead of the M16. The direct impingement platform should have never been fielded.
The AR 18(0) was then turned over to the Japanese, whom still currently run it as their current “assault rifle”, manufactured by Howa I believe.
actually, I’m pretty sure that it got splashed by Korea as their K-2…. either way, we were stupid to keep a design that shits where it eats and needs a built-in hammer.
What is in the picture is an AR-10 of Sudanese or Portuguese contract.
Back to the books for you.
you stupid, lying pos’s. The top men in combat and bullseye matches all choose the AR-15, cause it’s THE best. Millions of them work just fine and have done so ever since they stopped using the wrong powder in the ammo and chromed all of the chambers, which has been true for at least 40 years. No, the original pic is NOT the AR-180, which is a complete piece of crap. They can’t even get the folding buttstock to be rigid. The pic is of an AR-10.
I feel like you were typing this very aggressively and let the /s of this meme go right over your head.
*Holds up doll
Show me on this doll where the original m16 touched you.
so, your wife left you for an ar18 and you’re taking it out on everyone by beating the shit outta her old i-pad ?
and by the way, the ar180 is the semi automatic version,
Folding stock? Like the one on the M16? Oh! sorry M16 doesn’t have that. Question, why is the USA the only country still using direct impingement rifles? Why has the USA been trading in those direction impingement rifles over the last 10 years and now directly replacing them with piston driven HK416 and Sig Spear?
Not a single DI rifle in my safe, EVER.
POF P308, POF Revolution, Steyr AUG………..
Piston>DI all day long IMHO.
DI guns sh!t where they eat. 🤔
just remember to use pipe cleaners on those gas tubes…especially the shorty’s
Also, around $220 in parts from ARID and RatWorx along with 15 minutes transforms the AUG trigger.
Spray carburetor cleaner down the gas tube when cleaning. It removes the carbon. I did that with mine and NEVER had issues from the gas system.
I used long pipe cleaners ONCE ever, when I bought the gun. And sold the rest of the pack at $5 each to older AR users.
I used to be a critic of the AR15/M16 design, until I bought one and used it.
I found the ergonomics to be absolutely excellent. For a 1950s design I couldn’t believe how far advanced it was. The gun just felt it was a part of you. When I set up my shooting position at 300 (note prone with a sling and not off a rest), I could keep shots in the bullseye ring (10″) at 300m without even looking through the sights.
All the controls were where they felt they should be. The stock felt a little short but was fine. Never had a problem with the magazines, but I did look after them. You got used the “doing” from the buffer. A “doink” met you were out.
Cleaning was a minor PTA but doing so kept the gun reliable. 5 rounds or 50, it took the same time and effort to clean. I miss the gun. It would be a good starter for my son. He’s using a Ruger Scount in 5.56, which both of us like using. The 2.5×28 Leupold M8 Scout Scope has been recently swapped for my vintage Leupold VX-III 6.5-20x40AO. My son really likes the “new” scope (I’ve owned it for 25 years).
I mean, if my life depended on it I’d rather have the option of a forward assist. As a range toy I prefer a slickside even though I’m a lefty. I even like the OG rear sight better for casual use.
Been popping coyotes and racoons with an old AR15A2 for decades. Fixed stock, hand grip sight and all.
Now, as a combat rifle, first choice would be the M-14 followed by the FN-FAL. Just prefer the larger caliber round.
that is an AR10, trigger looking piece in the carry handle is the charger. original problems with the xm/M16 was the deliberate use of incorrect powder, the first aluminum mags were also meant to be disposable and feed lips often deformed. chrome in the chamber helped alot.
I’ve got a Colt AR-15 Delta Hbar from about 1980 that suits me just fine for driving tacks. The M-16 became a good rodent rifle after they resolved the powder issue, chromed the chamber and redesigned it with the forward assist. all of the rodents on my property really enjoy shooting it.
suppose those old SP-1’s…[in nice shape]…are collectables now….like an AR-15 that actually looks like one…not something made by Black & Decker…..
I liked the simplicity of the SP1. Zero the sights at 200m for the short setting (perfectly fine down to 25m) and the Long setting was on for 300m.
At 100m just accept the rounds will land 2″ high. At 400m aim over the head of the target and the drop will keep them in the bull zone.
Ban on marijuana users owning guns is unconstitutional, U.S. judge rules > https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ban-on-marijuana-users-owning-guns-is-unconstitutional-u-s-judge-rules/ar-AA176Tkl?OCID=ansmsnnews11
news flash, if you have to force the bolt closed then something is wrong.
how many other combat rifles have a forward assist ?? yah, how many ?
stoner did not designed the assist and it was developed at the government’s request against comments by several people.
early operation flaws were the result of the government changing the powder specification on the ammo ( and is why they over gas them now to accommodate all kinds of different manufacturers ammo), colt unable to make a reliable 30 round mag till O Kay industry in CT got involved.
chrome lining is great by today’s standard but was nothing to brag about in the 60’s and the variations did lead to problems.
as for DI vs PISTON? note how many years it took for some military to switch away from di design, stoner designed a setup but military brass turned it down.
the armalight rifles history is well documented, as well as its improvements over its flaws over the decades.
Bought a ar15 just because I saw a good deal and figured it wouldn’t be long before I couldn’t get one. I really don’t like it, I shoot better with my lever actions. I feel better about hitting someone with.357 magnum than .22 going really fast.
I have an Expert rating with the M16A2 service rifle courtesy of the USMC.
Never cared for it.
I do not enjoy cleaning THAT much. And I am not talking about punching the bore, wiping down the BCG. I am talking about passing inspection from that old, crusty Gunny at the armory.
For me, the ergonomics were lousy. The grip too small or thin. Had to cock my hand to get to the safety with my thumb. Always thought that was a dumb place to put the charging handle.
Forward assist was a answer looking for a problem.
I have shot a few friends ARs. Meh. I just cannot get excited shooting one.
To each their own.
Once I converted most of mine to being side chargers they started behaving better.
I came to the AR late in the game compared to most of you, as I went into civilian Civil Service rather than the Military. You all shot M16’s and M4’s and I took shots with a Theodolite. During Obutthead’s first term, there was a lot of noise about another AWB and my feelings of militancy. Went to the range with a couple of buddies, one owned an AR, the other an AK. Sorry to say, but I was unimpressed with the AK’s accuracy. 6″ groups across the bench at 100 yards is unacceptable to an old Bolt Gun fan. The AR was much better group wise at 2 to 2 1/2″ across the bench and iron sights. So I went and even bought the same AR as the buddy owned, a DPMS Oracle (unaware that he’d changed the original barrel to a much improved barrel). Within a short while I’d learned that the Oracle was a MEH rifle, assembled from low end parts. Two years or so later, after a lot of esearch, cussing up a storm, pulling out what little hair I had left, and spending $600+ more shekels, I ended up with a decent, l accurate to my standards,, and dependable gun. All that’s left of the original Oracle, is the Upper and Lower Receivers. Everything else, down to the detents and springs was changed out. I would have been money ahead to invest a little more the first time around.
One thing all that research did was give me a good understanding of why the M16 had such a poor start. The very poor training and incorrect information about lubrication, and the real FU, the Ordinance Board’s ignoring of the propellant recommendations and their cheap b*stard insistence upon using up powder stores left over and going back as far as the Great War. Unlined barrels were an issue, but I suspect the powder contributed greatly to bore erosion just as it did with the original 30-03 cartridges and barrels (which is why the 30-06 cartridge was developed using a cooler powder).
Now, I own four AR’s, 3 15’s two in 5.56 and one in .300 AAC and one 10 in 6.5 Creedmore, and I’m happy with the platform.
I’ve considered converting to a gas piston rather than the DI system, but just haven’t spent the money (our economy really sucks under McSniffy). I’ve not had a fouling issue to date, and the bulk of my ammo stores are not cheaper surplus of dubious origin. Since I reload, I stick to the cleanest burning powders I can for every gun I own, so I’m beginning to think I need to run a higher round count on my range trips than the 300 to 400 I used to run before the primer shortage got so bad, which has significantly impacted how much I shoot any of my guns.
Now I’m seeing primers available, but damn, they have gone up outrageously in price. 3 to 4 times what they cost before the Scamdemic.
Is that what’s going on folks. Do I need to run longer between cleanings to see the fouling others mention? Or should I bite the bullet and convert to gas piston system?