I got the long-range shooting bug earlier this year after shooting with extreme long-range guru Jay Monych. With Jay’s excellent instruction and more than a little help from my 20” 6.5 Creedmoor rifle built by Alamo Precison, I was getting consistent hits at 1800 yards.
So naturally when Mile-Shot Jay told me he was working on establishing the new Extreme Long Range Shooting Organization I knew I’d be joining. Here’s their press release:
Texas – Extreme Long Range Shooting Organization (ELRSO) is pleased to announce the launch of a new organization focused on the support and expansion of ELR shooting competitions across the United States. ELRSO will serve as a sanctioning body providing a standardized framework, course of fire and scoring format across all of its events held nationwide.
Additionally, ELRSO will maintain a scoring database tracking all competitors’ points accumulations from each match with the top shooters earning a spot in the finale match to be held at the end of the year.
ELRSO will support two distinct equipment classes to create maximum shooter opportunity for its members. A limited class will be open for all calibers .338 and under, while an Unlimited class will be available for all other calibers up to .50 cal. All competitions will have a minimum starting target distance of 1,000 yards.
ELRSO memberships will be available at $100 annually for adults and $50 annually for youths (under 18). Membership will be required to participate in ELRSO sanctioned events. The inaugural event, the Sicangu Arms 2K, will be held in Winner, SD on May 11, 2019. If you are interested in participating in an event, hosting an event or would like more information, please visit our website at ELRSO.com
This is the ELRSO’s mission:
The Goal of the Extreme Long Range Shooting Organization (ELRSO) is to promote the growth of the ELR sport by creating new ELR opportunities and encouraging shooter participation in a safe, consistent and simple format that utilizes a standardized scoring system across all ELRSO sanctioned events. ELRSO sanctioned events reflect a commitment to continually push the limits of ELR based upon a scoring system that maximizes advancement through participant skill level, and minimizes accomplishments achieved by luck or chance.
For more information go to ELRSO.com
Meh… you lost me at ‘Creedmoor’.
Wake me when the ELSRO, er ESLRO, um or ERLSO or whatever the hell it’s called holds a 5k-5k. Now that would be something to see. I want that tee shirt!
I love it when people say creedmoor is bad but 260 or 243 are good. I guess they just hate having commercially available match Ammo. Or they enjoy the harsher recoil and inferior ballistics of the 308
The Creedmoors are bad because they don’t offer anything the .243 or .260 didn’t already offer. Except for marketing hype of course – they’ve got loads of that. Otherwise they’re just splitting the market and making ammunition more expensive for everyone. That and nothing says ‘I bought the hype the gun shop clerk was selling’ like a Creedmoor.
BTW, there’s plenty of good commercially available match ammo on the market for both .243 and .260, and the terminal ballistics of the 6.5 Creedmoor take 600+ yards to catch up with .308, so I don’t know that I’d call the .308 inferior. How much hunting do you do at 800 yards?
Dude, you keep banging on about your contempt for marketing on the 6.5 CM.
Well, I’ve got one to toss right back at you.
The .308/7.62 NATO is contemptible – because it’s nothing more than the .300 Savage, in a longer case, with better marketing.
See how that works?
True enough, however the .308 picked up a couple hundred fps over the .300 Savage so it’s more of a 6.5 Creedmoor vs 6.5 PRC comparison. The 6.5 Creedmoor didn’t pick up any velocity over the .260. Anyway, don’t I remember you saying they’re all pointless because the 6.5×55 did everything they did?
I did say that. I’m just pointing out that what you’re saying could be said of the .308/7.62, which is now quite well cemented into the shooting/cartridge world – so much so, that there isn’t anything that’s about to come along and displace it.
Same deal with the 6.5 CM. We can rant about it, but I reckon it’s here to stay. Remington could have had this entire market segment to itself with the .260, but they produced such poor ammo & brass, that people were left wanting “better” – and so the 6.5×47 comes along, then the 6.5 CM, etc, etc.
As much as I might want the 6.5×55 to be “The One 6.5 to Rule Them All,” it ain’t gonna happen. The .480 case head diameter is an immoveable barrier to more market penetration for the 6.5×55. It’s much the same reason why the 6.8 SPC didn’t get the uptake people thought it would. If I’m bringing out a cartridge in the US, it better have a case head diameter of one of the following:
– 0.378 (same as Rem .223/5.56)
– 0.473 (same as .308, 7.62, .30-06 and a slew of other cartridges)
– .535 (same as most belted magnums)
On such small issues the future success of a cartridge hangs…
Yes, Remington hasn’t had the best track record at releasing new rifle cartridges. They certainly botched the 6mm Remington. On the other hand, Hornady didn’t exactly knock it out of the park with the .30TC. A lot, well, not exactly a lot, but I’m sure a couple people got burned on that one. Then there was the super short magnum craze. Buying into the latest hyped up cartridge is a risk that usually doens’t work out for the consumer. What I find ironic is that the one that really took off was the one that didn’t actually bring anything new to the table.
With the exception of the 6.5 Creedmoor, I think in 20 years you’ll have an easier time buying 6.5×55 ammo than any of these new wonder cartridges. You’ll also have no problem buying .45-70, .30-06, .30-30, .243, etc.
The .308 doesn’t really bring anything new to the table, if you load the .300 Savage with modern powders to modern pressures. The .308 (and descendants) are still here.
Marketing plays a role in all of this stuff, and market uptake of new cartridges today depends, IMO, to a large extent on the availability of high-quality factory ammo. Youngsters don’t want to learn to reload as much as we did in our generation. The kids today just want to pew-pew-pew something that fits into an AR.
So a round that is available in ultra-deluxe loadings will succeed, even if it offers slightly marginal results to another cartridge that needs handloading to achieve the best results (eg, the .260).
Most cartridges that weren’t a complete failure (eg, the .30-03) will retain some base of support in the reloading market. .260 will be there for a long time to come, if for no other reason than you can make the brass out of .308 brass fairly simply – same as for the 7mm08.
Look, if a red-headed stepchild of a round like the .284 Winchester can survive, then the 6.5CM will survive. The 9.3×62 Mauser languished forever and a day in North America, and now hunters are starting to realize that the 9.3 and .35 Whelen have something to offer – once again. Everything that is old becomes new again, once we old farts quit touting the old stuff, and we let the kids think that they’re onto something ‘new’ they’ve re-discovered. Let ’em. It’ll keep ’em off our lawns and busy doing something constructive.
I’ve said, and I stand by my assertion that most cartridges designed since WWII that we could do without. That includes the .308, and derived rounds. There are plenty of older, ignored, overlooked, under-loved cartridges that could be used with modern powders today that would give you almost everything some of these modern wunderrounds are giving you. There’s no need, IMO, for anything more punishing than a 9.3×62 or .35 Whelen for large game in North America. Anything you’ve designed off a .308, you could probably base on a 7×57.
But let’s say that you just “had to have something bigger” than a ’06 or 8×57 wildcat… Because “bear” — or because “f-you, DG, I just want something bigger, dammit!”
OK, kewl, there’s the .404 Jeffery and the .505 Gibbs. Big enough for you? I’m sure they are. The .460 Weatherby is completely optional in my world, but I’m never going to tell someone to not buy a .460 if they want one.
I can do my part, and show up at the range packing 7×57’s, .280 AI’s, 9.3’s and .220 Swifts instead of the latest magnum twaddle, and maybe I’ll educate some kids. But until and unless the kids reload, they’re just going to say “Cool! Thanks for showing us that old stuff, Gramps.” and they’re going to stick with those cartridges that provide what they want from the factory.
Interestingly enough, ‘modern powders’ was the reason the .308 was supposed to replace the .30-06 (and did in the military). But like the .308 vs .300 Savage, the ’06 still provided more case capacity, and use of modern powders is not limited to new cartridges. There certainly doesn’t seem to be an end to the room for both the .308 and the .30-06 in the marketplace some 67 years later, and there will probably be room for 6.5×55, .260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor 50 years from now.
Now, full disclosure, I am squarely on the .260 side of the equation because a year ago I bought a .260. ( https://www.ruger.com/products/HawkeyeStandard/specSheets/47185.html ). The .260 was just one of a dozen acceptable cartridges, but since they make exactly 250 each year in a single different caliber, I thought it was a good time to bite. Still, like Nirvana vs Pearl Jam, there are times in one’s life when you must take a side, even if both sides looks pretty stupid 25 years later. And being born with a surname like Le Petomane ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_P%C3%A9tomane ), you can expect others to think you’re full of hot air from time to time. I don’t expect .260 ammo to go away from the Bass Pro shelves, let alone the interwebs for some time, it seems pretty well supported for the time being, but sometimes stands must be taken! The .260 was here first and it accomplished the job of putting a 6.5×55 Swede into a .308 length action, and without a need for a modified bolt face. Mission accomplished. And if 5 years from now the American shooting consumer rediscovers the .257 Roberts or the .250 Savage I will cheer that on with my last breath if necessary.
I don’t particularly care either way, but .308 doesn’t have harsh recoil. It may be more noticeable then 6.5 but I definetly wouldn’t call it harsh.
You lost me at $100 per year, when I can get the same information Online for Free…
You can compete in 1000+ yard marksmanship competitions online for free?
I’m quite content with my 7.92×57…
Oh, Boy! Yet another shooting organization I can join!!! Where will the first convention be? Can’t wait…
What’s the upper limit of “extreme long range”?
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say “probably about 4,000 meters” as a practical upper limit within the next 10+ years.
The real limitations here will be the .50 cal limit for a “destructive device” and the issue of “how large a rifle do you really want to shoulder?”
Fifty Caliber Shooters Association has the “King of Two Miles” competition…..
Yup – which is over 3,400 yards.
How big’s that target at 1800yds?
I guess Jerry Miculek will have to compete unlimited with his 9mm pistol.
with the right tuning you can make most rifle cartridges reach any yardage you want including the .22, the 7mm08 will smoke a 6.5 all day long,