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Some members of TTAG’s Armed Intelligentsia have written that they’d meet a cop killing their dog with lethal force. I love my schnauzers, but I wouldn’t go there. Not when my life is at stake. So, Ralph, what about cats? Check this from Ontario’s

It all started when two people dropped by at a house a few doors down from Sosnoski’s. When the door was opened, two dogs bolted to his property.

“He (Sosnoski) exited the residence and came out with a long-barrelled rifle,” deputy Crown attorney Karey Katzsch told court. “He yelled at the group to get their dogs off his property or he would shoot them.”

Then he went back inside.

“Moments later, Mr. Sosnoski exited his residence again, this time with a white baseball bat and yelled at the group that he was going to beat them with the baseball bat,” Katzsch said.

Sosnoski pleaded guilty to possession of a weapon for a purpose dangerous to the public peace, and careless storage of a firearm.

Mr. Sosnoski’s lawyer said “alcohol consumption clouded his judgment that day.” Maybe. Or maybe he just really loved his cats.

In any case, no. It’s not worth it. IMHO. Your thoughts?

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  1. Had two viscous dogs break out down the street and run wild in the neighborhood. Called the law and when he arrived I asked if I could shoot the dogs if they attacked me or someone else. His reply”of course”.

    But you need to be attacked or see them attacking another person. Get Off My Lawn doesn’t count.

    • How exactly do you determine the viscosity of a dog? Are we talking 5w30 or straight 50 weight here?

    • Depending on the state, you can kill a dog that is harrassing wildlife or livestock.

      • Just make sure you actually kill them. My brother shot 2 dogs that had killed several heifers, but failed to kill them (he’s usually a better shot than that). The dogs made it home and their trailer trash owners called the sheriff on my brother. So a deputy came out and confiscated the gun, which was actually my grandpa’s, and told my brother to kill the dogs next time. They kept the gun for a couple months just to appease the dogs’ owners.
        The best part was a local paper wrote a 1 paragraph article about it but didn’t use my brother’s name, it simply referred to him as an armed assailant.

    • Actually you can also shoot them to protect property. I have a small farm and I have killed several neighbor’s dogs when they entered my property. I have numerous livestock and poultry that I have a right to protect. I verified this through animal control.

  2. “In any case remember, you can only use lethal force if you or other innocent human life is imminent, credible danger or grievous bodily harm or death”

    I’m normally not a grammar nazi, but geez; it’s painful to the eyes.

  3. If the dogs were actually attacking his cat on his property I would assume he could kill the dog for trying to kill his cat, legally.

    • I damned sure would shoot anything attacking my cat… but she’s indoor only, so the attacker would have to be in my house to do so.

      • In Ohio, it’s unlawful (but rarely prosecuted) to shoot a dog to protect another dog or other pet.

        On the other hand, it’s explicitly legal to shoot a dog to protect livestock.

        I’m always amused by the sociopaths who think that their dog not only has a right to be on somebody else’s property, but to kill whatever it wants to while it’s there.

        • Another reason why I love where I live. It may in fact be illegal to do a great many things here, but if a tree falls in the woods with no one around to hear it screaming…Wait, I think I’m mixing metaphors again.

    • But, if the dog is legally killing the cat (natural law), what can you really do about it?¿

    • Depends on the state. Some states, interestingly, would allow you to shoot an aggressive dog attacking your dog but NOT any other pet (including cat). Varies quite a bit.

      • Here in Wyoming, any dog even annoying people or livestock on our property can be shot on sight, with no real problems. Two big dogs were chasing some horses across the road from me, and I stood by with my carbine. The owner of the dogs was able to get control of them, but I would have shot those dogs without a flinch if they’d come even close to hurting one of the horses.

        The interesting thing is that cattle have more rights here than people in many cases. It’s “open range,” which means that the landowner is responsible for fence or whatever to keep cattle OUT of their property. That includes deer. Oh, and buffalo, which are almost impossible to fence OUT. Or in… I’m glad there are not millions of buffalo running around. Deer are bad enough.

        • Same over most of the west. Many dogs are farm and ranch tools like a tractor or chainsaw.

          Family members, yes, but not like you city folks. But my dog will ride up front with me in the truck. You, on the other hand, ride in the back.

        • Who you calling “city folk,” Doktor? LOL The nearest “city” to me here has a population of around 2300, and otherwise I’m surrounded by a million acres or more of open range, with cows and so forth. 🙂 I hate cities. Never lived in one either.

        • And you would be sitting pretty in a jail cell or worse. You can’t go around shooting peoples property while the owner is actively trying to gain control of it.

  4. You wrote, “In any case remember, you can only use lethal force if you or other innocent human life is imminent, credible danger or grievous bodily harm or death.”

    Really? Better check the law first. Here’s Pennsylvania’s law, and many other states have similar laws:

    Title 3, Pa. C.S. § 459-501. Killing dogs; dogs as nuisances
    (a) Legal to kill certain dogs.–Any person may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing or wounding or killing any domestic animal, wounding or killing other dogs, cats or household pets, or pursuing, wounding or attacking human beings, whether or not such a dog bears the license tag required by the provisions of this act. There shall be no liability on such persons in damages or otherwise for such killing.

  5. Sorry, you kill my dog…I kill you. End of discussion, no matter who you are or what imaginary authority you may think you have.

    • Ahh, ultimate definitive conclusions.
      The life breadth of true cognitive function…

    • If your dog attacks my puppy or a child then you’d better be ready to do some jail time bud.

      • The only way my dog would attack your puppy or kid is if you tossed them over my fence. Anyone or anything on his side of the fence is his, period. I think most logical people here would safely assume that I was refering to someone coming onto MY property and shooting my dog. You even point a gun at my dog, you die. Its that simple.

        • So, some 10 year old climbs over your fence to grab his novelty flying disc (heh) and your dog starts mauling him, you ready to die for the dog? Because a bunch of people would probably be willing to take side with the kid. Doesn’t matter if he wasn’t being watched well enough or climbed across your sacred property line.

        • Hannibal, any kid who climbs my fence is a complete MORON and deserves to be taken out of the gene pool…thats what the fence is for, to keep people out…and as far as internet tough guy goes, don’t like my answer too bad. Jhon, whos parents couldn’t spell.

        • So, you don’t even read the damn story, you just come in and go all ITG all over the place. Is that about it?

        • “Jhon, whos parents couldn’t spell.”…ROF
          OK…. That one was a belly buster!!

        • I think everybody here can come to the agreement that it would be a good idea to keep off of Ed’s lawn!!

        • Hey Button, didn’t I tell you about a dozen or so articles back you should use that button for your top n bottom lips? The suggestion still stands FLAME DELETED.

    • I love dogs, and I would never shoot one unless I absolutely had to.

      But if I have to shoot your dog to protect myself, other people, or animals, it will only take a few of the many rounds in my magazine. There will be plenty left to deal with you if you try to kill me, and I’ll shed less tears over you than the dog.

      On the other hand, if you’re mature enough to realize that I only did what I had to do, and I took no pleasure from it, then we will both live to see another sunrise.

    • Nice to know where I stand with you, Ed. After killing your dog (if in my yard attacking my pet) I will immediately turn my attention to you as a secondary threat.

    • Whew¡!
      Read that first as “getting pooped and enjoying it”.

      Ralph, I love ya, but don’t know you well enough to bond with you that way.

  6. First, Sosnoski came out of his home with a gun. Then, he came out with a baseball bat. I think we should applaud him for de-escalating. If this situation had gone on any longer, he might have emerged from his home with the King James Bible and maybe milk and cookies. Kudos!

  7. Mr. Sosnoski’s lawyer said “alcohol consumption clouded his judgment that day.”

    Legal-speak for “My client is a dumbass”.

  8. I would be interested in knowing the legalities of shooting an animal on your property. If a dog is running around in your yard barking and growling i dont think it should be considered any different from shooting at a burglars. However, i have a neighbor whoose dog wanders in and out my yard once in a while. I dont care because hes friendly and doesnt shit anywhere, but my other neighbor gets mad for no reason and calls animal control on him once a month.

    • What if the dog has amorous intentions on your pure bred? Or if he is going to hurt your dog, cat, rabbit, hamster, iguana?

      Can I shoot the big bastard? please. huh, huh?

      • Most definitely in that situation lol. In all seriousness however, id probably just kick the dog and scare him off.

      • No, but if it has intentions towards your wife/gf, maybe. Depends on how insecure you are.

      • “What if the dog has amorous intentions on your pure bred?”
        I think there are two schools of thought on that issue…
        First (in no particular order) if this is a serious concern of yours, it’s up to you to secure your valuable property; that is, the pure bred dog (or whatever).
        Second (again, this could be first), the neighbor has a responsibility to exercise control over his dog; that means, he should maintain fencing that keeps his dog on his property.
        If this goes to court (probably small claims where lawyers aren’t allowed, usually), the win would go the side that could argue the other didn’t do what was necessary. (I’ve sat in on many small claims courts, just for fun, and this is the way it works.)
        As for what you could do immediately, check your local laws. If the law says you can kill such a dog, make sure your neighbor knows that you are willing to do so.
        In a nice way, of course. 🙂

  9. i wouldnt just stand by and watch someone shoot my dog either though. If a police officer shot my do I wont start a fight I cant win but, if a neighbor tried to kill my dog I would deffinelty attack him with my fists. I love my dog but, I wouldn’t kill a human being over him.

  10. I don’t think the sentiment was ‘meet a dog-killing cop with lethal force’. I think it was ‘meet a MY-dog-killing cop with lethal force’, as i remember. Many people consider their dogs as family members. People would be wise to keep this in mind when treating them otherwise.

    And i guess Ralph’s cats count too.

    • Depends on the situation.
      Come uninvited to my house and shoot my niece’s 10lb rat terrier while she stands 10′ away from you barking to let me know there’s an intruder? .223 between your eyes with zero remorse, glad I got you before you started shooting at me.

    • If said dog was a family member…
      If that family member was an “uncle” who was a trained cage fighter, and a drunk who would attack anyone he thought looked at him cross-eyed, said “uncle” had better be very strongly controlled, or he’s likely to be shot by someone sooner or later.
      IRL, if you own a dog who is seen as a danger to the community, even though you say he is a controlled animal, if a LEO needs to come onto your property and your “controlled” dog appears to be attacking the LEO, prepare to have your “family member” shot.
      Sorry, but reality intrudes into fantasy far too often.

      • Well, no poop BB. Of course, this is so, but those are not the circumstances or the types of dogs or uncles being reference when the subject came up before. In those cases it was just a POS sociopath with a badge that wanted to kill something or one with a severe phobia that should have precluded them from such work from the get go.

  11. “In any case remember, you can only use lethal force if you or other innocent human life is imminent, credible danger or grievous bodily harm or death”

    Um, no. Why are you misinforming people on matters you apparently haven’t researched? State laws vary, but there are plenty that certainly allow you to shoot an animal on your property which is attacking your pet.

  12. The way I read the article he walked on HIS property carrying a rifle. Not pointing or aiming. Would there only be a threat, to the dogs? Where does lethal force come in this scenario?

  13. And when they say alcohol was “involved” that means that that alcohol was probably “running the op”, but that alcohol couldn’t provide an air tight enough alibi to its attorney that no one saw it at the scene of the incident.

  14. The fact that it is legal to kill anything or anyone does not make it ethical or moral. Too many gun owners (and cops) are the itchy trigger finger type, anxious to shoot anything they can legally get away with. The sentiment that somehow humans are more deserving of life than any other species, or even other humans is pathetic and despicable. Lets not forget slavery used to be legal too, and gun laws were constructed to make it illegal for free blacks to defend themselves. Immoral laws won’t be determining my response to anyone attacking me or any living resident of my home.

  15. Degenerates from all over seem to use my road as *the* dumping ground for their unwanted dogs. It’s the first dirt road directly after exiting the interstate in the middle of nowhere, and the road is really just a shortcut for trucks hauling coal out of my neighbourhood mines. Every week there’s a least one new abandoned dog running around lost for a few days, until they either get smeared by a coal truck or vanish.

    And inevitably, a few make it the five miles into my little hamlet. I work 2nd & 3rd shifts, so I’m rarely awake to take care of vicious animals.

    The last time it was a pair of Walker hounds and a pitbull mix; over the space of two weeks running wild they killed all but 4 of my uncle’s chickens, one of our neighbor’s goat kids, my mother-in-law’s 1yr old boxer, almost killed her sweet mutt that she rescued from that same dumping spot, and at least 2 of our cats (that I’m sure of).

    We all live in seperate houses at the end of a long cul-de-sac, and these dogs were good at avoiding people. The hounds just liked to chase things & make noise, but that pitbull tagged along, happily murdering anything the hounds cornered.

    So finally we neighbors got together, obtained the go ahead from the sheriff (verbatim: “why are you even asking? If they’re on your property, take care of it.”), and we all took a few days off work to hunt them down (those damn dogs never showed on weekends or daytime).

    I sat with my old Winchester .22 for 5 hours on the last night, and was about to head in when I heard the hounds start baying, followed by the boom of my neighbor’s 12ga. Approx 10 seconds later, the dogs ran past me behind my house, clearly not concerned or injured by the shotgun. I let the hounds go by, and nailed the pitbull with a perfect deflection shot directly in below the ear. I dragged it’s carcass out to the garden, pissed on it, and let the buzzards take care of the rest.

    But what I’d really like to do, is catch someone dumping another animal on my road. I hate killing things, along with seeing their unwanted pets get greasified by Drummond. I don’t even think it’s a misdemeanour to abandon a dog, just a civil fine. It’s rhetorical, but still; WTAF is wrong with people?

  16. It has already been mentioned at TTAG before but cops in the US need better protocols and training when it comes to how to handle animals. A cop coming to a home with a (supposedly) aggressive dog is a common problem that repeats itself across America on a daily basis. Sometimes a cop has no choice but to shoot someone’s pet but it does seem that lately (like since the 80’s) cops have been trigger happy when it comes to pets.

    • Given the recent shootings of Levar Jones and Charles Kinsey by police, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that they sometimes have a cavalier attitude toward shooting dogs for no good reason.

      Look at the cases of the Mayor of Berwyn Heights, Maryland whose dogs were shot, followed by him and his mother in law being forced to lie, handcuffed, in the blood of the dogs; and the cop who shot the CHAINED dog after entering an enclosed yard without permission, supposedly in search of a missing child. Were the meretricious nonsense propounded by his kneejerk defenders to be believed, with NO reason to believe that the child was present (it was not), he could have simply kicked in the front door and shot any human who “startled” him.

  17. I’ll put the common sense out there.

    Shooting dogs, legal or otherwise, makes for pissed off owners and unintended consequences.

  18. “White baseball bat”, THAT’S “ray ciss”.

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