“Unfortunately, while the law may eventually be found unjust and overturned, today it is the law. Second Amendment Organization is a staunch advocate of Gun Rights, but those rights are defined by our laws. We believe it is imperative that Responsible Gun Owners follow the law. In this case, that means the New Jersey Gun Owners should comply with the law… and fight it! Part of fighting it involved educating people about why these types of laws have little or no effect in regard to saving lives and why people might want or need large capacity magazines in the first place. 2AO is staunchly against magazine capacity restrictions, as stated in this set of Position Statements. Recommending that New Jersey residents comply with the law is not ‘compromise,’ it is accepting the current reality.” – Rob Pincus in New Jersey Magazine Capacity Restriciton: Now What?
Sounds like this group folded up shop… Maybe they were threatened with arrest if “they didn’t comply….” Queen obviously gave up….
Auto-correction: “Group gave up….” so much for [email protected] support… remember rights lost and never returned…
Can they envision a scenario where the NJ gov announces they can now own gigantic magazines of whatever size they want!?
They better start practicing reloads on 5 shot revolvers.
ARREST the Police ….. they are all in violation of the law as soon as they go off duty !!
There should be no carve outs or ‘ special status ‘ >>> They are still citizens and NON Military civilians.
And dear cops …. don’t expect ANY citizen backup.
But if you die, someone will pick up your mags …
OH..and don’t forget to place the officer under citizens arrest for breaking the law.
The 2AO is not based in New Jersey! They are simply telling the people of New Jersey to comply. Rob Pincus is originally from New Jersey, but he doesn’t live there now. Rob Pincus is trying really hard right now to piss off as many people as he can in the 2A community. He is succeeding!
I haven’t agreed with much that Pincus has had to say for several years… don’t see that changing any time soon.
The concept of “Irish Democracy” is relevant to the situation at hand…
Get on the cattle cars. Solzhenitsyn was wrong. We should just comply with the authorities, and go to the Gulag willingly. It is the law after all. We will appeal to the authorities when the train stops at Auschwitz. They will surely give us a fair hearing.
The men at Lexington and Concord should have given their weapons to the king of England, and then tried to sue him to get them back.
^ This! Multiplied times eleventy billion!
Eleventy billion +1 …… America was founded on non compliance. I see no reason why we should change.
And Rosa Parks should have just stood in the back of the bus. It was the law after all.
Heroes are the people that stand for truth and righteousness, not those who just go along to get along.
I’m sure Mr. Pincus has never carried a firearm in a gun free zone, or high capacity magazines were they were illegal. Right…….
Actually, Rob Pincus is pretty famous for disarming himself in gun-free zones and in states where he is not permitted to carry. He is actually being regularly teased in the training community about that.
Screw the law, ill keep all of mine.. they will get them when i unload them on politicians
Americans fail to see that they live in an empire, in the tradition of all empires.
In all the years of Public Re-education we have now generations of “citizens” who believe:
1. Abraham Lincoln was a great president and “Emancipator”
2. That the Union was a just concept and must be forced on all States
3. That the Constitution was/is a great document outlining the best form of Government
4. That the Bill of Rights was originally part of said Constitution
5. That making Federal “one size fits all” legal schemes will fix all problems
So now here we sit, unable to fight a war on all sides. If we don’t have to fight our home State and local governments only, we also have to fight the Fedgov. IF we’re lucky enough to have a local and State gov that is sympathetic to our freedoms then we probably still have the Fedgov to contend with and it’s the worst of all in terms of brute force.
And we COULD do our own “Brexit”, state by state, peaceably, whether it is “Texit” because Texas wants to govern itself conservatively or “Calexit” because they want to do so liberally…well of course we can’t just have peaceful and amicable divorce, because years and years of propaganda has instilled in us that secession is wrong or unjust or that “balkanizing” the Great Empire of the United States or “Union” for is an evil and wrong thing. We intrinsically – whether on the right or left – want to “win” or hold power over those who do not want to live the same as we do. In short, we’re all psychopaths.
Our own declaration of independence states: “…That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but when 50% of the population on both sides basically wants the other half dead or at least not have to have any sort of contact or communication with them then that Form of Government has become destructive to the ends of Freedom. It’s time to abolish and rebuild. If the big cities want to become liberal city states, so be it. If “flyover” country wants to become one big, happy Republic then they should do so. If a little pocket of people in nowheres-ville wants to govern themselves then they should be allowed to do so.
This advice appears to conflict with common sense as well as Marbury v Madison – “a law repugnant to the Constitution is Void.”
Unfortunately a law repugnant to the Constitution will also land you in prison and make you a felon.
That’s why the 2nd amendment exists.
I’m pretty sure there’s at least 3 or 4 people left in New Jersey who still believe in the 2nd Amendment.
Not if the jerks in D.C. get off their ass and pass nationwide reciprocity!
That would be nice, but if you’re currently locked up in a state like New Jersey because you didn’t know it was illegal to carry there, I’ll bet the change in law won’t get you out of prison.
Also, national reciprocity won’t be the panacea you’re probably thinking. These people in power in those states have nothing but contempt for the 2nd Amendment and all of us unwashed rednecks who think it’s our ‘right’ to carry a firearm in their state. Their contempt isn’t going to dissipate, at least not overnight. They’ll find something to charge us with, or if nothing else detain us for 3 days while they verify the validity of our permit. It will still be very unpleasant for us to get caught armed in their state. Still, would it be nice to see reciprocity shoved down their throats.
Not this national reciprocity nonsense again.
It ain’t gonna pass, because it doesn’t have the votes. It actually never had the votes in the first place. Also, using a further bastardization of the Commerce Clause to regulate the personal use of firearms at the federal level is exactly what we gun owners want, right?
Further reading: http://www.stevesachs.com/HR38_SachsBarnettBaudeLtr_20170323.pdf
The GOP held both houses of Congress and the presidency. Don’t give me this “it didn’t have the votes” nonsense. It never GOT a vote. They could have brought it to one and forced politicians to lay their chips down and declare which side they’re on- they didn’t. Because they are betting on people like you being foolish enough to keep voting for them no matter what.
No, the GOP did no held both houses of Congress. Please educate yourself! It takes 60 votes in the Senate to stop the debate on a bill (cloture) and then to vote on its passage using simple majority.
All Senate Republicans can easily vote for cloture on this bill, even if they are actually opposed to it, as Senate Democrats will filibuster it. Again, it doesn’t have the votes. It actually never had the votes in the first place.
That’s why I said nonsense. Learn how your government actually works. Fool!
All of this has already been discussed here: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/12/daniel-zimmerman/its-time-for-the-senate-to-finally-vote-on-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity/
Time to set up sanctuary cities for gun owners. Why anyone would want to live in such restricted states baffles me?
Here in Missouri we added an amendment to our Constitution barring any laws that restrict gun accessories (mags, grips, etc) we are one of the few pro-gun states left!!
See The town of Republic, WA.
I live north of Seattle. Not lost on me when I read about that. Though getting out of the state altogether has more appeal. The difficulty lies in two things: currently taking care of my mom full-time. And my daughter and her family whom I am not keen about being away from for a few reasons. Nor am I interested in being in a state where I stand the risk of losing my guns. Not that I have to, or can right now, make a move. But it all weighs on my mind. Where will there be bastions of protectors of the 2nd Amendment?
That this group says to comply with this — comply with the law, regardless of the unconstitutionality of it? What if NJ said to turn in all guns, and now ‘it’s the law, so we’re law-abiding people here, and we encourage you to turn in your guns — but fight it!’ Fight it? With what? Your guns are gone. And they’re not coming back no matter how much you ‘educate’ anyone on the Constitution.
Theoretical situations are becoming less theoretical, and more real life. More of us will be faced with some very difficult choices.
Idaho is real close to you!.. but I hear you… I live in Maine, where we did well for several years under Governor Paul LePage… but he termed out and we now have anti-gun dems running the governorship, house and senate… things are going to go downhill fast here…. weighing my options…..
Moved to a free state, took the financial hit. Re-established, worked for a F/A distributor, and held an FFL. Wife re-entered profession at a higher level. Everything balanced out.
Semi-retired, go shooting and get some desert time. Of late, WW II, ETO, shadow war; Commandos, OSS and SOE. Good reference books. Replica “tools of the trade” availabile. History is more “alive” when I can handle the kit or see ’em up close in a book. Dark of the moon…-30-
Thank God George Washington didn’t just move farther west. The Adams didn’t pack up shop. That MLK didn’t stay up north, that the freedom riders did w just start a right in campaign. If you cede tyranny an inch, they will take a mile.
The colonies were founded by peoples who were running from tyranny. When tyranny cought up to them they went allong with it. When it bit them, they revolted.
Today, when people run from tyranny they bring their libtard ideas with them and turn Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, and Virginia in to blue states and Florida, Texas and Arizona in to purple states. When tyranny catches up to them they scatch their heads and wonder how Colorado, Texas, and Florida seem a lot like the California they left oh so many years back….
There is no running. You either stay and fight or your just part of the problem.
Maybe, but I have been waging that battle since I was of age. I am retiring and it hasn’t gotten any better. Hell, we lost ground. I want to actually enjoy the rights afforded me by the constitution for part of my life, while I can still enjoy them. So time for the next gen to pick up the flag and advance the cause forward. Didn’t get much help from those in my own generation. The French (the French!) Got the marbles to take to the streets. In NJ you can barely get 2500 out to a pro gun rally and that’s with these types of laws on the line.
After over 5 years, the Courts have ruled that obama care was unconstitutional. In the meanwhile, thousands were fined thousands of dollars for not complying with this unconstitutional heath care. Will they give back the thousands in fines. Will they re-imburse you for your loss of gun magazines?
Responsible gun owners didn’t create this country. They took their rights and shot the tyrants in the face with them.
What’s the point of “fighting the good fight” when the people and groups who claim to represent our interests fold under the slightest amount of pressure, and then afterwards claim with false gusto, “Don’t worry guys, we’ll stop the next one”, only to cave again and again?
I’m concerned not only for gun rights, but for the future of this country.
At this point it seems the Second Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, and the First Amendment are nothing but inconsequential rhetoric.
Noone will do anything about it though. Wh;y? Well it takes years and millions of dollars to undue a law but only an “accident” and two weeks to write one followed by six months to pass it.
And if anyone were to do something about it physically, they will simply be shot dead by tyrants and their minions with nothing to show for their efforts, especially since they don’t want to leave their cushy lives and family even though they are indirectly harming their family and killing their descendants. It is almost to late, if H.R. 7115 were to pass it is to late.
And in my experience those that care for the Constitution aren’t even registered voters so there is absolutely no help from them at all. I swear I’ve tried to get them to vote but nope. Stubbornness, ignorance, apathy, and complacency has doomed us all.
Stop reading all the propaganda on the Internet put out by people wanting your money and learn how your government works.
First of all, H.R. 7115 was a stunt! A bill introduced as political grand standing right before the election on November 2. It has a total of 17 cosponsors. You do know how many votes it takes in the House to pass a bill, right?
Second, the current Congress is pretty much done with its session, except for the standoff between President Trump and Senate Democrats. H.R. 7115 is therefore dead for this session.
Third, H.R. 7115 may get reintroduced next session and will then certainly be called something else. If the Democrats even find enough votes to pass this new bill in the House, which 13 Republican Senators do you think will vote for this bill?
“It doesn’t have the votes! Republicans will block it! Go back to sleep!”
Ask Florida what happens when you kick back and rely on your Republican reps to safeguard your 2A rights.
There is a difference between hyperventilating about a bill that is never going to pass and fighting bills that actually have a chance of passing. The new Congress will undoubtedly try to pass a “moderate” gun control bill and possible an “assault weapon” ban.
We need to fight the real battles that are coming in the future, not the fake one created by 17 Democrats 5 days before a Congressional election. Literally not a single House Republican is supporting H.R. 7115. Not one!
By the way, my fear is with “compromise” gun control bills, where all Congress critters can say that they “do something,” while Congressional Republicans will say that they “fought hard” and “managed to negotiate a compromise.” The NRA will fund raise on the fear mongering and do nothing, as usual.
…Or we could all take just a few minutes of our day and give them such an enormous negative response every single time they propose the most remote or far-out-there thing in the world that they sit back and go “Gee, these people knew this thing had no chance of passing but called me like it was the doom of the republic anyway. I guess they really hate when we talk about gun control in any way! I’d better do less of that if I want to keep my seat.”
It’s irrelevant to me if it’s never going to pass. I want these people thinking there will be pitchforks and torches at their door before they can get through the phrase “assault weapons ban” so that they’ll lay off with this nonsense.
Have you actually ever talked to your Congressional Representatives or their staffers? I have! What you envision their response is, is not how this works.
You will be simply ignored, like the rest of the people that contact their Representatives on issues that are not up for a vote. Understand that they get tons of e-mails and phone calls from their constituents about a wide variety of issues.
Spamming your Congressional Representatives with your latest view of gun control bills that simply go nowhere is not productive. Educating them on the facts of a bill that is up for a vote and giving them “ammunition” to defend their decision is highly productive.
Understand that Democrats regularly introduce gun control bills, just for show, so that they can claim that they introduced a gun control bill during the next election campaign.
I assume you have contacted your Congressional Representatives for every of these gun control bills of the 115th Congress, right: S.1212, H.R.5717, S.2458, H.R.2598, H.R.2033, S.533, S.1185, H.R.1708, H.R.3361, H.R.4025, H.R.5162, H.R.7274, H.R.57, H.R.4344, H.R.1832, S.834, S.2150, S.1992, H.R.6643, S.3300, H.R.4057, S.3002, H.R.6024, H.R.6654, H.R.1278, etc. There are currently 411 bills in the 115th Congress that mention the word firearm.
Vote? . Tape worms or Heart worms your still voting for worms.
Complying with the law has resulted in mass graves how many times throughout history? Meanwhile the left openly ignores the law and rallies behind cries to abolish entire federal agencies. But us, we have to politely comply and keep our heads down while we wait for the cattle cars.
How about if New Jersey declared that it was a serious felony to resist rape? Should all the women in New Jersey comply because that was law?
And before anyone poo-poos such a law as a silly hypothetical argument, the government could easily justify such a law stating that resisting the rape would infuriate the rapist and cause the rapist to:
(a) beat/kill the victim rather than just raping the victim
(b) go on a violence spree that would not have happened if the victim had “pacified” the rapist.
Needless to say, trying to stop a rapist from beating/killing a victim and going on a violence spree is a compelling government interest and public safety objective — which is the magic incantation that governments use to declare firearms are contraband.
Lighten up Francis
don’t call me Francis!
The is no requirement to adhere to unconstitutional laws. Supporting invalid laws is unethical.
Unethical or not it is still law. The civil disobedient individual would still be prosecuted, and gun owners don’t seem to have much uniformity or backbone.
Have you ever served on a jury? If not then let me tell you that the jurors are not allowed to say “innocent because the law is absurd” only innocent or guilty because there is an applicable law regardless of what the law is or how ridiculous it may be.
And generally a potential juror will be asked if they disagree with the law and if so they cant be a juror for that case, and if the potential juror lies and says they have no objection to the law and they do then they lied under oath, or perjury. And, depending on how, contempt of court. In other words, you can’t battle it in regular court so if you are caught you are simply out of luck unless you get lucky.
“jurors are not allowed to say “innocent because the law is absurd””
Actually, they can do this, and I say this because I sat on a jury that did it.
The jury only has to state guilty or not guilty. Nobody has the right to challenge that or ask why they decided what they did (OK, the judge can set aside a verdict, but it’s really rare). If the jury decides a defendant is not guilty because they like the color of his shoes, so be it– ain’t nobody’s business but theirs.
Judge can set aside a guilty verdict, can he set aside “not guilty”? I suspect not.
To get to jury nullification you have to get to a jury, which can take a toll on someone all its own. You may not get a criminal record in the end, but the lost time and money and the impacts on your job and family just from getting from arrest to hearing can ruin a person just as effectively.
If you’re an NJ gun owner and you are NOT 100% prepared to be periodically butt humped by your a$$ backward state… then A) you must like being surprise butt humped or B) you’re not good at picking up on obvious clues in your environment… like that your a$$ backward state periodically butt humps you.
NJ gun owners need storage buildings in other states. They also need to practice opsec and watch their digital breadcrumbs. Not very different from living behind the iron curtain.
I see a lot of NJ tags these days looking at property. If the taxes don’t do it the gun laws might.
Where? NJ is surrounded by NY, MD, and PA, which is working on becoming as bad as NJ, NY, MD, etc for gun owners.
Pa and delaware are not nearly as bad and you know it.
“why people might want or need large capacity magazines”. That would be standard capacity magazines. 30 rounds in a 30 round magazine is standard capacity not large capacity.
Read the article and comments. Pincus is an idiot. Lexington and Concord, “I regret I have but one life to give—-“. Noncompliance is why we live in a republic.
“Part of fighting it involved educating people about why these types of laws have little or no effect in regard to saving lives and why people might want or need “STANDARD” large capacity magazines in the first place.”
It reads as if written by the Anti gun Left.
Education! What a great plan! See, it’s so much better than what we’ve been doing for the last 50 years, which is…educate the other side…
Seems like maybe we should take a deep breath and try to understand why half-a-century of ecucation has failed to yield any softening of the antigun Left before we commit to that path for another half century.
Almost 2 decades ago I ran what is considered the most suueccful industry education initiative ever, the NSSF Media Education Program. I came up with the concept, built the structure and ran it for seveal years with the help of Doug Painter at NSSF, my friend and free thinker Paul Erhardt and what I belive was the greatest cadre of instructors ever put together for a single purpose.
The difference between then and now is the battle lines have hardened. There is no middle ground. Just as with the issue of abortion, we are a close to 100% polarization. The other side doesn’t not believe we are wrong; they believe we are evil. You can argue with wrong, but you exorcize evil.
I have no answers here.
I agree with Michael. They want to win. We are going to be defensive right to the end. They never defend their positions, they assert them.
Their may still be hope, but the politics of both sides are hardening fast. As you pointed out you can deal with misguided, talk to wrong but you destroy evil. If both sides of the spectrum view each other as evil their is no ground that can be given.
The second amendment logically infers self defense, doesn’t mention hunting at all, but it explicitly states that the arms of the citizen is to resist the tyranny of the state.
It is refreshing to see that there is no “law enforcement carve-out” in the NJ “normal capacity magazine ban”. “Law enforcement” should have NO “special rights” or “carve-outs”.
Ordinary citizens have the Constitutional right to possess ANY weapon that the government possesses, even those that the government (unconstitutionally) decrees that are “illegal” for citizens to possess.
The Second Amendment to the Constitution has no “carve-outs”…
And there are wails of agony
They want their exception! Note the statist isn’t slamming the law as it applies to the taxpayers.
Yawn — lots of ‘Cold Dead Hands’ rhetoric (almost all of it from outside NJ).
Which is better than doing nothing while smirking at those who publicly oppose the law.
There will be a few that “do not comply”, true patriots at heart, and they will be killed by the state. The media will blast them as extremists, the 2a community will listen and believe.
Which is why it’s important to cut the head off of the snake when they kill the first such man. They start killing people over non-compliance to unconstitutional laws, I would think that direct reprisals against the men who wrote those laws and their families would be the next step.
Someone already got killed due to a red flag law, which is arguably worse than a mag capacity limit seeing as it goes against the concept of due process as well. No sign of reprisals yet…
They won’t get reprisals. Remember, the media and those who issued the red-flag order say they were taking the guns because he was crazy and dangerous.
Just like people who kill peaceful animals! Just like that guy/gal that has that scary scoped bolt action high power sniper rifle! Just like that guy/gal who owns that pistol so they can carry it with them and shoot people if he/she so decide! Just like people who shoot at human shaped targets for sport competition, clearly planning for something! Just like the guy/gal who builds scary black ghost assault weapons on their 3D printer! Just like the guy/gal with the 12 gauge single shot shotgun capable of destroying car engines!
See where I’m going with this. It won’t end. The Left will not let it and the right doesn’t have the will to stand firm, and maybe not even the pocketbook.
Yeah, that was pretty much my point. All you get for going full 2A in the current environment is a news story about the brave SWAT team that killed a gunman during a raid of their home in which an arsenal of assault weapons and illegal high-capacity magazine clips was found. Thoughts and prayers will be given to any brave troopers wounded in the line of duty, and a few neighbors will be found to give their NPC lines about such a shocking thing in their nice neighborhood or “I always had a feeling about that guy” or something.
And everyone at home will go “huh wow” and move on to some other mindless distraction on TV. Nobody really cares as long as they have their bread and circuses, and anyone motivated enough to actually pull a trigger for the cause is too far off the current mainstream to make a positive difference. Really, they’d probably just hurt their own cause, because it’d just get spun into the latest “We NeEd To Do SoMeThInG” event for the masses to bleat at us.
I don’t know if you think you’re just being dramatic or something, but if someone starts KILLING people because of this crap, I’m going after the enforcers first, we can get to the politicians later, when there are no more deaths occurring otherwise.
And your point is??
Of COURSE it’s from outside NJ! One of the purposes of my guns is to shoot the mofo tries to drag me into NJ.
Fight. Sure. How Exactly?
Clearly outnumbered by people who disagree or at least don’t see guns as important as other issues. The Constitution is supposed to prevent mob rule unless it’s ignored.
Next up will be a semi auto bam for the serfs.
And you can pledge to Fight. Again.
Next up for them maybe.
Everyone really needs to pay attention and WORK against H.R. 7115.
It is probably the worst by far in my opinion. It basically says that all firearms must be written to the ATF, you know the alphabet soup that has illegally compiled lists of gun owners, so that they know all of them exist, no grandfathering. Oh and it’ll cost you money.
If the possible consequences are a felony conviction and loss of all gun rights, a person should definitely weight the risk vs reward. I’n glad I don’t hav
e to make that decision in Texas (at least prior to 2020?)
On a related note, how is it possible for a violation of a state law to be Felony? It seems like this happens all the time, and I just don’t understand the legal precedent of how a state can make some violation a felony.
Per the 10th Amendment, states have all the authority not granted to the federal government in the Constitution. Nowhere does the Constitution grant the power to ban murder, rape, etc. to the federal government, so state are the supreme authority to enforce such laws, and certainly murder is a felony.
Granted, TX is way better for gun owners than NJ, but you still have .30-06 and .30-07 signs to watch out for and plenty of other onerous regulations. I’d give up a 10 round mag limit for freedom to carry wherever I go.
Violating 30.06 (assuming you actually got caught) is a class C misdemeanor and a $200 fine… it is basically a speeding ticket – I’d rather have more rounds.
Well I do carry a revolver, but…
How about schools? Courthouses? Airports? Bars or restaurants where alcohol makes up more than 50% of their sales? Odds of getting out of trouble with 10 rounds (or 6) vs. no rounds – I’ll take the 10.
Of course, any state that respects your right to carry probably isn’t going to care about how many rounds you carry either. TTAG should do a poll, it would be interesting to see the results.
I believe all but the airport are class A misdemeanors, but I’m not sure.
Unfortunately no matter where you live there is somewhere you aren’t “allowed” to carry.
Gov, the answer to most of your questions is “depends”.
Schools? Depends on the school.
Courthouses? Depends if court is in session.
Airports? Depends what side of the TSA security line your on.
Bars over 50% is still just no.
As far as .30-06 and .30-07, that’s still quite the ethical and legal conundrum, as it pits two basic rights against each other, the right to defense and the right to private property. I still fall on the private property side, and simply choose no to do business with folks who don’t allow me to be armed on their property.
@jwtaylor , I agree, I don’t patronize places in Texas that post 30.06 signs. I get the reason for 30.07 although I don’t agree with it, but I understand guns make snowflakes and pansies weak and cry. I understand the Texas view on property rights, and I agree that the property owner has the final say as to what he/she allows on their property. On public property, private property without signage, private property that post 30.07 sign I carry concealed, even to church.
‘Unfortunately no matter where you live there is somewhere you aren’t “allowed” to carry.’ – True dat. Just personally I find it less onerous for the state to infringe on my right by telling me I can have only 10 rounds in the mag than telling me I can’t carry at all, or setting up a mine field of traps to catch me and punish me for unwittingly carrying where I’m not supposed to.
‘As far as .30-06 and .30-07, that’s still quite the ethical and legal conundrum, as it pits two basic rights against each other, the right to defense and the right to private property.’ – There’s no conundrum IMHO. The business owner has every right to refuse to do business with me and ask me to leave if he doesn’t like the fact that I’m armed, and if I refuse to leave I’m guilty of trespassing and he has the right to have the police remove me. He doesn’t (IMHO) have the right to sic the police on me without even asking me to leave. Also, if this ‘private property’ is owned by a publicly traded corporation, it’s not really private property, it’s public.
This is why I prefer living in IA, no weight of law behind ‘no firearms’ signs and I can sit down in a bar and drink until my BAC hits 0.08%. The winters on the other hand suck though.
I try to avoid 30.06 posters, but if I need to go in for some reason, I am carrying. Concealed is concealed, and I didn’t see the sign anyway.
I am not a lawyer, but here’s a question for one … Especially if familiar with NJ law.
If an organization openly encourages its members to break the law, can the leaders of said organization be charged with crimes such as conspiracy, incitement to riot, et cetera? If so, then I understand why the 2AO might be taking this stance.
I don’t especially like it, and I wouldn’t say what I would or wouldn’t do if I lived in New Jersey. But I kind of get it. I also don’t see this being overturned except at the SCOTUS level, hopefully by a blanket ruling that all mag limits or restrictions of any kind are unconstitutional.
If they were trying to cover themselves “legally” no statement would have been better.
This is capitulation.
You do not understand the 1st Amendment well, or at all.
James Yeager famously said he is “gonna start shooting people” in response to Congress getting close to enacting an “assault weapon” ban.
In contrast, Rob Pincus says “comply”, when nobody asked him. Rob Pincus is simply being Rob Pincus here, an *ss.
Rob Pincus also thinks that Richard Black, a deaf homeowner who just survived a home invasion, was justifiably shot by the responding police officers: https://youtu.be/WqSn-_wDavQ
Ve are good Germans!
LoL. Comply! Comply! “Yeah it sucks, but it’s the ‘Law'” “We’ll fight it in the courts!!” “We got kavanaugh now!”
Blah Blah Blah.
Sunshine Patriots. The fact that this was even proposed, let alone become “law” is evidence that gun owners are seen as second class citizens, we continue to roll over, time and time again.
More and more capitulation.
Misguided souls holding fast to the idea that our elected officials look out for the citizenry, that do what’s right by the founding ideals of our country and its people. Politicians continue to only pay lip service to defense and support of the constitution.
Our system of government only works if everyone plays by the same set of rules.
Clearly emboldened by local restrictions and a belief that as long as options exist the SCOTUS will allow a ban on one type of gun or mag if another choice exists.
Don’t look for a beautiful decision telling the 50 states and DC to let the People possess whatever arms they want.
The 2A states that but it doesn’t matter.
As long as we continue to hold the idea that judicial supremacy will save us, we are lost.
To your point about mosguided people trusting the good nature and intentions of their elected officials, there’s a quote in the venezuela story above this one that hits the nail on the head.
They will look you in the eye and say “the law says this” without caring what the USC states. And if they have a swat team behind them you lose.
After the first few, a SWAT team will show up and as they are about to kick the door some old guy on a hill at 300 plus. That will be the shot heard around the state and echoed through the rest of the slave states.
It’ll be heard around the entire nation…
…And then 90% of them will change the channel to something less scary. News of the ensuing manhunt will feature lots of dramatic shots of MRAPs on the streets and they’ll eventually kill the guy with a drone or something. Someone on ARFCOM will go “good shoot” and the citizenry will go back to whatever trivial things it was doing.
Bonus: Congress gets a stick up its ass and starts trying to pass laws against “police-style sniper rifles and shotguns” (gotta throw in that irrelevant bonus item with every bill they push) and the FUDDs will start wailing that it’s okay to take the glass as long as they keep their .30-30 and over-under.
Follow the money. The answer is usually there. Who gains from this new law?
A “Second Amendment organization” recommending NJ gun owners turn in their magazines… When the time comes will they recommend we turn in our guns, too? With friends like these…
A lotta bold talk from people not from NJ. The new strategy is to put antigun crap on state ballots and pass with mob rule from the metropolitan areas and its working. They’ll name it the “Safe the Children” Amendment and every city and suburban knucklehead will gladly vote for it.
I’m not saying these laws are enforceable on a mass scale but not matter where you live a bunch of anti gun laws are headed your way.
Do not fucking comply.
All you New Jersey gun owners. Ship me your magazines, I will hold them for you until you pick them up in person, in Texas.
“All you New Jersey gun owners. Ship me your magazines, I will hold them for you until you pick them up in person, in Texas.”
Everything’s bigger in Texas including good ideas such as the one above posted by M B. No this is not a joke and if it were me I would seriously consider getting my unlawful magazines out of state before I would consider ever giving them up.
Pincus has made several public statements that I’m aware of saying restrictions are ok, and that “even Scalia said there could be restrictions”. Very disappointing.
Clarence Thomas is the only SCJ that I can trust to uphold the Constitution, it seems all the others waver, but Justice Clarence Thomas seems to be steadfast. ” Shall not be infringed” means exactly what it says.
No f#%^ing way would I comply now or ever if it were to also happen here in Florida.
An unjust law is unjust. Im compelled by every fiber of my being to NOT follow it.
My response will always be the same NO f#$%ing way.
Talk to the guy who was just shot because of the Red Flag law.( I believe it was a sibling fight about where to put the elderly parents. She requested the RedFlag) Oh, wait, he’s dead. Forget it.
We could still ask her if she’s proud!
Waiting for SCOTUS to rule that tyranny is just a tax.
Rosa Parks should not have set in the front of the bus. It was against the law.
“Second Amendment Organization is a staunch advocate of Gun Rights, but those rights are defined by our laws.”
Actually, that’s not quite true.
In this case, our rights are defined by the US Constitution.
Instead of saying what they did, the 2AO would have better said that the law is unconstitutional (because it is, on its face). They would have better served the people of New Jersey by saying they would fight until the courts saw that unconstitutionality.
Second Amendment Organization is a staunch advocate of Gun Rights, but those rights are defined by our laws. We believe it is imperative that Responsible Gun Owners follow the law. In this case, that means the New Jersey Gun Owners should comply with the law… and fight it! Part of fighting it involved educating people about why these types of laws have little or no effect in regard to saving lives and why people might want or need large capacity magazines in the first place.
No…. our Rights are defined by Nature and enumerated by the U.S. Constitution. As such, any laws restricting those Rights are, accordingly, UNconstitutional.
While I continue in my efforts to educate others, I have come to realize that it mostly falls on deaf ears.
Education, in the strictest sense, is borne of LOGIC and FACTS. The opponents of Freedom and the 2A revel in emotionally-based positions. Facts and logic are virtually powerless, as those folks do not recognize anything that is logically or factually derived. They reflexively reject it out of hand.
So…. Humans come to agreement either “by reason or by force.” If they reject reason….
Well said. The 2AO seem to be absolute bootlickers here. I don’t know a thing about them, but when a civil rights organization states publicly that the rights of its members are defined by arbitrary state laws, especially when such laws appear to be, to a reasonable observer, unconstitutuonal…I just don’t know what to say to that. It’s asinine, it’s ineffectual, given that it’s an unforced error it’s incredibly stupid.
From the POV of a civil rights advocate this organization is wrong headed, unlikely to be effective and seems it may be the sort of false flag organization often developed for the purpose of siphoning off membership, energy and money from actual, real civil rights groups. I know if I had membership in this group I’d either be leaving immediately or leading a coup to replace anyone involved in issuing that statement. It’s not only bad for the cause, it’s bad for the group. Seriously imagine a black leader of the 60s civil rights movement telling his followers not to march, not to sit in at white lunch counters, telling Ms Parks to move to the back of the bus…just unbelievable.
Full disclosure, I’ve never been much of a Pincus fan, but I never would have though I’d have reason to consider him an enemy…this gets us closer to the mark…
What magazines? I don’t have any of those, they were all lost in a tragic boating accident last summer.
While hunting fish 🙂
You fish your way and I’ll fish mine.
The best tackle boxes always include dynamite.
Gee what are states like NY or Massachusetts or Commieforina(or Boulder,Co.) doing to enforce their bs laws?!? Not a lot…I’m sure I’ll face this in ILLinois. Lock & Load comrades.
In NY almost any enforcement of unSAFE comes as add on’s to other charges. DWI with a+10 mag in the car…bang. Aided case at your house and a Dep observes something unSAFE….bang.
Even NYSP have admitted they can’t enforce most of it and more and more Sheriffs and DA’s are telling Prince Andrew to stick it.
It’s a disgrace when hard working, law abiding folks are victimized and criminalized by their own government for doing nothing.
NY is at an extra disadvantage because we are home to that wart to my east, NYC. Actually more of a festering boil, but that’s another discussion.
8+ million voters packed into NYC drive the votes to carry statewide elections. The will of NYC becomes the mandate for the state.
The rest of us take it long, dry and hard because the Libs decide our gubmint.
Carve outs for LE are politically expedient and make for great photo ops…most of the carve outs are bought and paid for by LE Unions. That divide and conquer BS has to end, it’ll be better for all of us in the end….no matter how sore our ends are when we get there.
The founding of this nation, and practically every right enshrined in the constitution was born out of non compliance in one way or another.
Which makes Pincus is a coward who still thinks we are a country of laws. He is also a historically illiterate moron.
There appear to be no gardeners left in the garden state to water a parched tree.
What a traitor.
2AO now considers rights trumped by laws written by people ignoring the Constitution. They are no longer an org that supports or defends rights.
Pincus has published on TTAG, he should explain his capitulation or just go away.
How can they “advise” people to take the actions listed? Saying nothing would of been better.
2AO..You are weak and have no backbone!! Step aside, and let real Patriots take this fight! By the way, your organization will never get a dime from me or my gun owning friends!! Do us a favor and dissolve yourself!
The intolerable acts were the law also, but the brave patroits that founded our country chose to risk more than prison but death in opposition to them.
So when the tyrant puts his boot on your throat, roll over, because it is legal. Hitler and Stalin loved stooges like these naive fools. Just made their job so much easier.
“Part of fighting it involved educating people about why these types of laws have little or no effect in regard to saving lives and why people might want or need large capacity magazines in the first place.”
Been there. Done that. Been doing it for decades. Hasn’t worked. Probably never will.
Got a Plan B?
“If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.”
What is it with the electorate, that these anti civil rights, anti constitutional rights legislator types get into office, and worse yet, manage to remain in office?
What a USELESS group
When the Eric Swalwell’s of the world get their Australian style confiscation/buy back and strip we the people of the most effective fighting tools we have will you still insist we should be “Responsible Gun Owners”? and comply with the law in the vain hope that the Supreme Court will come to our aid?
Its not a law , as soon as it was signed it was null and void. The original Constitution is the Supreme Law , any law,statuate,code,rule,order that is in violation of it becomes null and void ab initio. They simply cannot violate your inalienable rights especially the eunemerated ones…be prepared in masse to punish anyone who tries to kidnap, cage,extort,harm,threaten..servants take orders , they dont give them. Treason is your servants warring against you !
Civil disobedience to corrupt politicians and obedience to the constitution is the onlybway this works…. If we all comit to civil disobedience they will back down… They did to blacks wanting their civil rights…. They absolutely will to a bunch of men and women armed.
It would have been better to say nothing. This is a pretty significant unforced error.
I get that they can’t, for various reasons, encourage people to break the law but advocating compliance isn’t a great idea either.
What they should have said is that they’ll fight the law in any and all possible ways and left it at that while ignoring any questions as to “guidance” they might offer.
Unfortunate, and I dislike agreeing with Rob Pincus but makes sense to me. Don’t be a martyr. How many molons can a dead or incarcerated patriot labe?
There is the bloodless option, but it would take longer. You know why prison terms are so short, and parole is so quick, right? Because it is expensive to keep someone in prison, if we have a million “offenders” in each state it will border on insolvent real fast. The book may say that you can get 20 years to life, but if there’s no room at the inn, it might be closer to 2 weeks. Then, whatever you did, do it again, right now.
My bump stock floated back to the top, I had to weight it down with a flintlock to get it to sink. It was just a matter of time before the flintlock had to take a swim anyway….. I love the power that these politicians have. No oath before witnesses stands in their way.
Just because it is the law, doesn’t mean it is responsible. And just because it is the law, that doesn’t necessarily mean that if you follow the law, you are doing the responsible thing. Those two don’t necessarily always align.
And why would they be passing laws against “Responsible Gun Owners” anyways. “Responsible Gun Owners” don’t need a mag ban, because they aren’t going to shoot anyone anyways.
“And why would they be passing laws against “Responsible Gun Owners” anyways. “Responsible Gun Owners” don’t need a mag ban, because they aren’t going to shoot anyone anyways.”
DING! DING! DING!
THIS is the real question we need to ask our “legislators” about every law that infringes on our natural rights.
NON COMPLIANCE IS THE FIGHT – FOOL! The law is repugnant to the COTUS and we are COMPELLED not to comply. Period.
Bad laws lead to the disrespect of all laws. The communists invasion of Afghanistan failed. Not to belittle the brave Afgan people, but their cottage industry made IED’s and rifles…that’s cute…our cottage industry is capable of making things much more…effective. Shall Not Be Infrindged.
No compromise, no retreat, no surrender. -30-
So he’s telling them to surrender? Apparently bending backwards to unjust laws is the cool thing to do.
I guess we now know the answer of whether Rob would be afraid to sit next to Rosa Parks on the bus!
I met Rosa Parks in 1993. She understood something Rod doesn’t
I have a question for Rob: Would you turn your mags in if you lived in New Jersey?
If you are responsible enough to write this article, you have the responsibility to answer this question.
Fuck that coward with a cactus.