You Have to Hand it to the Ukrainians, They Know How to Troll

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Women wrapped in the Ukrainian national flag take selfies near an installation depicting Russian President Vladimir Putin with a gun in his mouth and writing “Shoot yourself” in central Kyiv, Ukraine, Saturday, May 7, 2022. (AP Photo/Efrem Lukatsky)
Activists carry an installation depicting Russian President Vladimir Putin with a gun in his mouth and writing “Shoot yourself” in central Kyiv, Ukraine, Saturday, May 7, 2022.(AP Photo/Efrem Lukatsky)
A man puts his foot on sculpture of Russian President Vladimir Putin with a gun in the mouth and writing “Shoot yourself” during its installation in central Kyiv, Ukraine, Saturday, May 7, 2022. (AP Photo/Efrem Lukatsky)

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  1. Jill Biden and U2 were able to visit Ukraine today. I understand that thousands maybe tens of thousands of people have been but is the country really in danger of losing if a bunch of idiot celebrities can visit unharmed during a “war”?

    • Ukraine is huge. That’s like asking if the South was in danger of losing after Gettysburg since you could visit Nashville without seeing any violence.
      The USO sent celebrities to England during WWII. Does that mean the Allies weren’t in danger of losing?

    • Of course they’re not in danger of losing anymore because they’ve stomped Russia into the ground. These celebrities didn’t visit in the first weeks of the war when things weren’t as certain. By now it’s only a matter of time before Ukraine retakes the southern front.

      • I’m very glad this site has so many perspicacious military strategists. But it’s getting like what old Mark Twain used to say about the general ignorance of the general knowledge integrations. “It’s Not that people don’t know so much, it’s just that so much of what people ‘know’…just ain’t so!”

        Having more than a modicum of Military combat experience myself, along with becoming a lifelong student of War history, I wouldn’t wager one dollar as to the outcome of this Russian/Ukrainian fiasco if you gave me ten thousand to one odds.

        But if you only listen to the Ukrainian side of the propaganda, or the Putininian disinformation, you miss the other side of the military gamble coin, but not the final outcome.

        Those who really know and study these types of warfare saw from the beginning that there were already several facors above and beyond simple strategy and logistic issues. Anyone here who thinks that Putin’s military commanders DID NOT totally assess all potential outcomes of their initial plan to literally drive into Kyiv Square with a column of tanks and pop in their puppet regime like a quarter in your neighborhood laundromat washing machine and drive off with freshly washed regime change, Please raise your hand?

        Well, why not at least give it a shot, or not? It worked elsewhere in the past. Remember, Putin was never ‘certain’ that would work. But other than a lot of delusional fake news reporters and their loyal insatiable bullshit consumers think happened, Real Warfare in a modern world is one of the most complicated games there is. It is not that easy on any level.
        And that’s not even factoring in the ever-present shadow of Murphy’s Law and the Domino effect of SNAFU in a terrifically ‘Mobilized’ style of warfare over. One small mistake could eventually turn the tide for either side to have a major loss or victory.

        So Putin’s Army had a plan B, C, D, E, for all contingencies.

        What they didn’t expect was that one of their lower risk assessments–the response from NATO and its level of support for Ukraine. Their intelligence didn’t catch on fast enough to the rapid supply of Stingers and Javalins and heavy MGs even before the invasion began when Western intelligence realized early that the so called-training exercises near the border were nothing but a massive build up for an invasion which our intelligence confirmed with enough value to prepare in advance.
        With the rapid influx of compact Stingers and Javelins Air support was effectively over for Russian forward assault troops. Along with these weapons, there was a SOG tactical Advisory team in Poland helping Ukraine Commanders.

        While examining the geography in trying to figure out why and how the Russian Forces were choosing their invasion targets, I noticed the reason why it was ‘big’ Show to March in to Kiev.

        While it would have been a gift from heaven (for both sides, in a way, if you want to rationalize all the carnage and destruction) to Saber Rattle with a parade of tanks and Russian attack Choppers overehead into the City for a virtually no-resistance take over of the government, that wasn’t the direct plan.

        Kyiv was more of a diversion strategy that in any case would pull away significant Ukrainian Forces from elsewhere in the country. Especially when Russian forces movement was coming down from Belarus as well.

        So more of Putin’s army could be on their way to more important targets.

        Like Mariupol. Which Russian forces now own. And it looks as if they are starting to ‘encircle’ a major Southern portion of Ukraine? Where they’ll push on to Odesa, then Moldova, all while the media and the West keep saying that Ukraine is winning and that Putin is ‘already Defeated’?

        Like the completely misused word ‘Democracy’, I think the definitions of Losing and winning are lost in this conflict. And the media pumped up by the Military-Industrial Complex keeps saying things like “…it’s only a matter of time before Ukraine retakes the Southern Front.”

        Unlike the U.S. preference of Warfare style which is huge Airstrike Power and tactical Special Forces surgical assault strikes, Russia likes their massive mobilized infantry with rockets, artillery, and missiles in a scorched Earth assault by first reducing all the infrastructure and buildings to rubble ahead of their advancement, and then bringing in large infantry
        staging in a secured easily accessed resupply encampment. Which is now Mariupol.

        As far as Ukraine thinking “they’re Not in danger of losing anymore because they’ve stomped Russia into the ground.” I’d say Putin hasn’t even used their cluster munitions that much and I observed only one massive explosion from the footage that could have been a small but very ugly fuel-air bomb. These are known as the poor man’s nuke because of their incredible blast power. And they probably have enough of these to wipe out most if not all of the major cities in Ukraine. And don’t forget his tactical nukes. These are not big enough to create visions of End Times Armageddon. They are like the firebombing of Dresdon, but just all in one shot. So one hit with a one megaton nuke cruise missile could obliterate a military airport, or an entire Infantry regiment camp at once. They are a very precision strike weapon now. We have them also.

        The main thing that everyone seems to be in denial about is that Russia is NOT Poland, Romania, or any other smaller Nation. It was once the 2nd most powerful military in the world after us. It still has the Most Nuclear Weapons in the world. Yes they had a bad case of ‘clusterfucking’ right up front. But that’s the advantage of being a World ‘Super-Power’. You eventually can fix the problem(s) one way or another.

        After China’s election this summer and Putin is still getting ‘stomped into the ground’ in Ukraine, China will start to give the Russian Army all the rockets and artillery and other supplies needed to keep themselves from getting ‘stomped into the ground’ any further. They want Russia to back them against Taiwan and join them in their new Space Force and colonization of the Moon. Russia should also have gained ground in the Donbas region and maybe even own Odesa by then., as they continue to get their asses “stomped into the ground”.

        But in any case, Ron, There will be no real ‘winners’ in this War. Only losers.

        And if you never were in ugly combat in an even uglier war…you wouldn’t understand.

        • JFK Junior, you said,
          “And don’t forget his tactical nukes. These are not big enough to create visions of End Times Armageddon… So one hit with a one megaton nuke cruise missile could obliterate a military airport, or an entire Infantry regiment camp at once. They are a very precision strike weapon now.”

          Um, one megaton is not a “tactical nuke” — it is a full-strength hydrogen bomb, a strategic nuclear weapon, a city-flattener capable of wiping out any city on Earth and killing tens of millions of people (if dropped on a large enough city).
          A one-megaton nuke is 1,000 times as powerful as a tactical one-kiloton nuke! Perhaps you meant to say one kiloton, not one megaton.

        • Jfkjr, I don’t have cite my credentials. Anyways.

          No, honestly I don’t think the Russians had any kind of back up plan. Have you been following this closely? The Russians have been a grade A clusterfuck from day 1. If they were as meticulous as you claim, they wouldn’t have sent the pride of their beloved airborne units to get blown out of the sky in the first days. Those soldiers are not expendable and they don’t use them as such.

          To be honest with you, I’m completely astounded at just how ate up they are. Before this kicked off I agreed with the US backed assessment that said Kiev would fall in 72 hours. Obviously the Russian military on paper and in reality is very different, all the way up to the top.

    • NTexas, I don’t think anyone here likes Putin. Take a breath. But, I do have to ponder. Where are the right that are boots on the ground? Are they there also? If so, why is it not being reported? I don’t recall any of our people forwardof the battle line being reported. If I’m wrong, I’d like to be corrected.

      • Nobody here likes Putin? I have no issue with him in the current conflict. He’s operating from a logical space to preserve his country. We should be invading Mexico for the danger they pose to our country. I don’t see much difference. Seems like Putin has been trying to avoid nuclear war and people like Zelinsky are actively pushing for it. The whole conflict is a joke and nobody is an angel.

        • “He’s operating from a logical space to preserve his country“

          Yes Comrade! Vladimir Putin the “strong genius” is very worried about preserving Russia, and he is very glad for your support here in the United States.

          After all, Vladimir Putin shares your hatred of gay people, your fear of women and love of bare chested bro-photos.

  2. There is a lot of talk and warnings about Russia using nuclear weapons. I think Nato and every other Country that knows what the ultimate result of that will be for all of us is not good.

    Russia should be told by NATO and other nuclear Countries not in NATO but aligned with the US and our NATO allies that any use of nuclear weapons will result in Russia being turned into a desert from a collective of Nuclear Nations whether in NATO or not.

    Putin is not the world’s elected leader and he needs to be put in his place. If Brandon isn’t strong enough to do it by himself then Nato and others need to stand up and do so in no uncertain terms. Once it starts its going to escalate and we all know what that is going to mean for the World as a whole. No winners, just losers.

    • That’s right! No winners, only survivors.

      Nuclear Autumn and Nuclear Winter are not things anyone wants, any sane person anyway.

      • Nuclear winter is a myth first of all.

        Second of all, the Russian nuclear capability can rightly be called into question.

        They aren’t the team they were in the 80s.

        • Were they that team in the 80’s? A lot of their capabilities may have been outright lies. Communism has never been honest.

        • What makes anyone think the “US Nuke Team” is any better today? Have to hitch rides with the commies to get to the Int Space Station, or use SpaceX. NASA is totally woke, many in the JCS and command in all 4 branches- ditto. We’d be insane to want or have to enter any serious conflict under the present regime. Not that we should ever seek military solutions unless absolutely necessary for our own freedom and existence.

        • @Ron
          Please explain why you think that Nuclear Winter is a myth when it has been proven as possible?
          1816-Mount Tambora

        • @jwm, you’re correct they weren’t. But they are even worse now, far worse. That’s how bad they are.

          @manse, It has not been proven. There’s actually a lot of data on this and I don’t have time to post a bunch of links, but the quick and dirty is a lot of the studies supporting nuclear winter are completely inaccurate to how a nuclear war would actually work. You cannot compare volcanic eruptions to nukes. Volcanoes pump WAY more soot into the air then ANY nuclear weapon possibly could.

          There’s a lot of other mistakes those studies made. From failing to take into account that most nukes are airburst, only a fraction of the worlds arsenal are actually available to be used, miscalculations based on multiplying damage based on Hiroshima with X amount of kilotons in modern nukes (a completely unscientific method), changes to nuclear arsenals and tactics since the end of the Cold War, and outright exaggerated claims by scientists with a political agenda.

          A good start I would recommend the book “Nuclear War Survival Skills”.

        • @Ron
          “You cannot compare volcanic eruptions to nukes.”
          In an all out exchange geological features will be targeted…such as Yellowstone, Cascadia, New Madrid ect. What would an Yellowstone eruption do? Heck, what killed the dinosaurs?

          “From failing to take into account that most nukes are airburst.” That is determined by the actual people shooting said nukes. Cratering runways over 5000′ using mirv’s use groundburst detonations. Targeting nuclear reactors is in all the nuclear capability country’s strike packages as well. Groundburst.

          Regardless of what our media says, or the Pentagon, or any administration, the US and Russia still have city killers in the megaton range and those most certainly can throw up enough debris.

          A nuclear war is not winnable. Everyone will suffer and most will die from a whole legion of causes including famine and disease. For me and mine I hope we are close enough to a strike to vaporize us immediately.

        • @manse. No, volcanoes are not targeted by Russian nukes and even if they were, it wouldn’t accomplish much.

          There’s a lot wrong online about nuclear war. Common misconceptions are the US and Russians each have 12-14000 nuclear weapons. This is actually isn’t true in reality. They have that many warheads, but but each country only has about 1,200-1,400 that are actually able to be used. Actually attached to rockets or able to be loaded on to aircraft.

          The strategies for nuclear war no secret. The strategies are basically public information as it’s something that’s been extensively war-gamed and planned for since the 1950s.

          Russia isn’t going to waste valuable nukes on volcanoes when they can only afford to sling them at US cities and military bases. One nuke does not equal destruction of an entire city, and intact most nukes will be used on American missile silos in an attempt to destroy the heaviest hitter of the UD arsenal.

          Each side plans to sling multiple warheads at each major city and military installation, because you need more then one to destroy them and because defense measures will stop some of them. Further, Russia itself knows at least one third of their rockets are likely questionable.

          Volcanoes also don’t just detonate if you hit them with a nuke. And even the biggest, at or below ground detonations would have a hard time actually opening a caldera. Even doing so, would offer minimal reward when you could instead obliterate more cities.

          And when it comes to surviving a nuclear war, it’s actually quite doable. If you do not live near a major city or military installation, you will likely be ok.

        • Diminished Ruskie capabilities are possible, even probable….but you really want to gamble on that?

        • “One nuke does not equal destruction of an entire city,…”

          Any credibility you had is now *gone*.

          Once a nuke of any size over any city has been detonated, whoever survives will run for their lives from that city, never to return voluntarily.

          They have been well-trained to be terrified of the concept of radioactivity…

    • what makes you say Putin thinks he IS the world’s elected leader? RED some recent history of the Ukraine and surrounding conutries. Now read how WE have dealt with Russia of late.. pst forty or soyears.

      Putin is only trying to protect his OWN borders agasint what WE promised him woud never come.. NATO next door. With missiles, troops on the ground, etc.

      Don’t forget, lso, tht the Crimea has been part of Russia for at least a couple cnetureie,s and after the US backed coup in 2014 that unseated a duly elected president, the people living in the Crimea voted by an YUUUGE margin to secede from the Ukraine nd rejoin Russia, their native homeland. More recently the people of the Donetsk region voted to separate from the Ukraine, but not to join back wiht Russia, remaining an autonomous region. The nazi factions then running the Ukraine decided to do what lincoln did to the fractured Union…. wage war on them to drag them back. That’s when Putin decided to act. And act he did. Once ou know a more comlete story, his actions now make perfect sense. The easern areas where most of the fighting is going on now simply want to leave the Ukrain,e which never WAS their homeland, and which had been brutal toward them

      The same lying pols been feeding us the covid ies are now swapping their “talents” to the Ukraine “story”. In both cases, truth is and remains the first and greatest casualty. Don’t buy their lies.

        • NATO has already said to Putin a nuclear attack on Ukraine would be considered a nuclear attack on the rest of Europe because of the fallout spread.

          The fallout spread from Chernobyl in 1980s spread across Europe and was detected in Sweden. Only then did the Soviets admit to the accident.

      • Interesting… So, when there are finally enough illegals in AZ, NM, S.CA, TX, etc. and those people then decide they want to ditch the US and become part of Mexico, you’d be fine with that I suppose…

        Putin’s primary reason “to act” likely stems from his dream to revive the old Soviet Union. Pretty simple.

      • nato was never a threat to putin and russia.
        and the fact putin invaded ukraine justifies ukraine joining nato.

      • “Putin is only trying to protect his OWN borders“

        Yes, Vladimir Putin is so fearful of the aggressors in Sweden, Finland, Poland, etc.

        After all when one compares the past 100 years of Russia’s peaceful coexistence with the bloodthirsty aggression and attacks by Finland, Sweden, etc. it is entirely reasonable to understand Vladimir Putin’s child like fear of destruction.

        Very good job comrade, the fifth column in United States is an important part of the new Soviet union’s peace agenda.

      • “what lincoln did to the fractured Union…. wage war on them to drag them back“

        Very good, rewrite history concerning the Civil War!

        Most Americans have somehow forgotten the fact that the confederate states fired on US soldiers serving their country at fort Sumter to start hostilities, so it should be easy to fool them as they’re too busy worrying about ‘Commies’ in our government.

    • A sudden, terrible famine caused by large tracts of farmland being irradiated into uselessness, would kill many times more people than the initial blasts ever could.

    • Personally, I suspect the nuke talk is braggadocio because of the context around “nukes” being understood to a large degree. It’s about the implication rather than the substance IMHO.

      Realistically, if Putin wants to come at us hard I’d guess that he does it via cyber. More bang for his buck (ruble), less risk and he absolutely ruins the country (US) in a way that comes with plausible deniability and less blowback.

      It’s just dumb how many major companies have systems running really old Microsoft products (for example) for critical infrastructure. Most IT security is garbage. These days a coordinated attack can shut down everything from tractors in fields to cell phones to pipelines and electricity grids. Great Northeast Blackout on steroids.

      And if he really wants to be a jerk he does it in a way that does actual physical damage to make it harder and more time-intensive to repair the damage.

      • “These days a coordinated attack can shut down everything from tractors in fields to cell phones to pipelines and electricity grids.”

        Tractors in Ukraine (the modern ones, anyway) are being ‘bricked’ by their manufacturers.

        The only thing is, grain grown in Ukraine feeds Europe, and a lack of it will make international grain prices skyrocket…

    • Your statement of “Putin needs to be put in his place” seems to assume we aren’t the evil empire this go around. I think you base too much on your assumptions. Start at the beginning and try again.

  3. I’d be careful not to be anywhere near that in Kyiv. Knowing how Putin is he might drop a bomb on it.

  4. The biggest issue is Biden’s personal weakness and of course Obama’s weakness and naivete that got us here. Both of these politicos are a known quantity and frankly, they were not respected by our potential enemies. Being strong and demonstrating strength is important to avoiding war. At the very least, Trump was an unknown quantity and Judo Master Putin, simply waited until he had a predictable opponent in the White House before he started this war in Ukraine.

    That being said, War in Europe is here, so what can be done. The goal needs to be to depose or have others depose Putin and/or have Putin declare victory and have Russian troops leave all of Ukraine, including Crimea and Transnistria. Letting Putin declare war on Monday, May 9th, mobilizing his reserves should be seen as a failure of Biden and his cabal.

    Biden needs to publicly and quite bluntly state to the world and in private to the Russians that we will fund and supply Ukraine forever, with as much money and equipment as it takes and we will NEVER stop. He also needs to state that if Russian declares war, uses chemical/biological weapons or Nuclear Weapons, they risk not only their own personal survival, survival of the state, but the survival of the entire Russian people.

    It might also be a good time to remind the Russians that all of the West’s militaries are professional forces and that our equipment, training and doctrine actually work, That the US has unseen technologies that are 100 years ahead of what any Russian can imagine. The Russian “Clown Show” we have been watching in Ukraine is of no comparison to what the West can do. We have always been committed to a Peaceful and Prosperous Europe and we will not tolerate any state or individuals that threaten that peace, now or in the future,

    On Monday, May 9th the NSA/CIA has the ability to ring the cellular phones of every General in Russia and tell them that the time has come for the Putin regime to fall. Promise them our support and a quick normalization of relations, once peace is achieved and troops are withdrawn.

    Unfortunately, I don’t see “Sleepy Joe” or his Woke advisors doing anything this decisive and aggressive. I want to be wrong, fingers crossed.

    • Mauser, that was an interesting read, but I have to ask. How could you know all that? Every Russian General’s phone could ring on a specific date? And it’s the CIA calling?

    • Holy Shit, just how much Koolaid did you drink ?? You must have wer the bed for three nights straight.

    • Anybody with the phone numbers has the ability to make phones ring, it’s easy, people do it all the time…..

    • “That the US has unseen technologies that are 100 years ahead of what any Russian can imagine.”

      Guess what?

      Tanks literally are 100 year-old technology, and NATO missiles like the ‘Javelin’ are currently making short work of them, turning them into scrap.

      *Breaking News* – The United States Marine Corps have been so impressed by the performance of such missiles, they told the US Army to not bother sending over the tanks they were scheduled to receive from the Army soon.

      A local skirmish only 60-odd days old has changed global battle doctrine for the planet… 🙂

  5. I just saw a news story on Dr. First Lady’s and U2’s visit in Ukraine. On CBS. Sorry. Perhaps it’s a rhetorical question, but why didn’t anyone ask Dr. Jill and the spy plane why they didn’t bring water, ammunition and food? That’s what they need. Usually in that order.

  6. It’s a hell of a mess and hard to find good sources of what is actually going on but I don’t like the talk out of the idiots in the WH about huge escalation of war. How many more trillions could we spend, adding to our $20+ TRILLION national debt, and not really do much other than make oligarchs and the “big guy” a whole lot richer and have a whole lot more dead Ukrainians and poorer Americans and others ravaged finacially by ongoing staggering inflation, energy costs, and market downturn losses.

    Lot’s of big talk on using the nuclear stick but that war could leave USA a wasteland too owned by the surviving cockroaches. People can do very unpredicatable and unrationlal things when forced into a corner that they don’t like and feel they have nothing left to lose.

      • Thanks, I stand corrected. Closer to the big one than I thought, maybe even before I check out. That’s scary.

        • When the government spends money this fast it’s easy to fall behind.

          “Blink and you’ll miss it”.

          Historically, such behavior doesn’t portend good things and we’re doing it on a larger scale and much faster than known examples. So far as I can tell, we’re doing it for no apparent reason too, which is odd.

          The oddest part though is that no one seems to notice or care.

        • Hrmmm… interesting.

          If that’s true then the economy is only running at about $13.3T in reality, so $20T on $13.3T taxable value…

          Which means that if we can get the economy down to zero… debt goes to infinity and… we’re debt free!

          HFS, Dude, you just proved that Biden’s actually an economic genius! Damn, you need to apply for one of those $5 million a year jobs at CNN, pronto!

  7. Holy crap. Has two decades of failed neocon warmonger military industrial complex crap shown us nothing? This whole thing has been provoked and pushed by some of the same folks. There is a whole lot of saber rattling in this thread. I dont want to feed this war wirh US dollars and keep it going in perpetuity. Why isnt anyone pushing diplomacy? It seems the current clown show and his media all want arms flowing

    • Russia’s been clear they won’t respond to diplomacy and it’s pretty clear by their actions they don’t care. Also, what diplomatic move could we make? The argument is:

      They want to conquer Ukraine.

      Ukraine refuses to be conquered.

      The only option is force them to understand they can’t have something simply because they want it like a petulant child.

      This whole thing really isn’t complex. Putin is a toddler who wants something he can’t have and will stomp his feet until he’s given a proper spanking.

      • Let me guess, the next thing you’re going to spout is that we’re “saving democracy” in that kleptocracy?

        • Of course we’re not saving democracy. There’s not a single real democracy on the planet, and there shouldn’t be.

      • We’ve witnessed 18 months of this Leftist junta making EVERY f’n decision WRONG in both foreign and domestic issues.

        What in God’s name do you think they won’t blunder us into a nuclear F’up?

        • Trump probably would’ve been tougher on Russia then Biden, and rightly so. And for certain Bush would’ve been. As Trump demonstrated in Syria, I think after the Russians brutality on civilians, he would’ve ordered at least punitive strikes on Russian forces within Ukraine borders.

        • A serious question, though, admittedly a bit of a foil:

          What makes you think they’re blundering? Would such behavior not be somewhat similar to that of a vindictive child? Which is to say, foolish and short sighted but decidedly purposeful.

        • Blundering VS purposeful. Well to be truthful, before I posted the blundering post, I looked to see if there was a youtube link of a clip from a long form (1 hour) interview that Tucker had with Glenn Greenwald. Tucker’s question to Glenn about “Why the rush to heighten tensions” and he responded with a long answer that boiled down to the psychosis of the Democratic party blaming Russia for losing 2016 election and that punishing Russia (even to the point of risking a nuclear war) would further reinforce that psychosis. Scary AF, and sounded 100% accurate. Essentially, Democrats would rather risk a nuclear war than to admit that their policies and Hilary Clinton are not wanted by the Aemrican people.

          In the end I didn’t find a clip and abbreviated it down to blundering.

        • doesky2:

          I’ve seen the interview. It made the rounds thanks to Greenwald himself.

          I was just curious as to your opinion. Thanks.

          IMHO, the answer’s probably in the middle somewhere but there are certainly people the hard Left that have openly talked about “taking the US down a few pegs by any means necessary” for decades.

        • The Democrat Party will do whatever it takes to stay in power. They have flooded the country with “bread and circuses”. If these bribes are not enough to get people to vote for them? Then they will use the power of the mobs and burn the cities to the ground, as they did in 2020. And ordered the police to stand down and do nothing.

          The Democrats simply believe that nothing will happen to them. They don’t believe the mobs will come to their homes. And they don’t believe an atomic bomb will land on top of their house.

        • Then they will use the power of the mobs and burn the cities to the ground, as they did in 2020. And ordered the police to stand down and do nothing.

          Were this to come to pass, at what point (if there is such a point) is the decision made to simply start shooting all three groups (the mob, the pols and the cops) en masse?

          We didn’t let Germans get away with “just following orders”, afterall.

          And yes, I mean that as a serious question. At what point is enough enough? Or does the country simply slide into oblivion?

        • There are multiple reasons for them advocating for conflict with Russia, not the least of which is a built in excuse for a shatty economy and an excuse to spend money now that Afghanistan has dried up.

        • “Trump probably would’ve been tougher on Russia then Biden, and rightly so“

          Specifically, how would Trump have been tougher on Russia?

        • “Trump probably would’ve been tougher on Russia then Biden, and rightly so.”

          In reality, it’s far more nuanced than that.

          Putin and Chinese ‘President-for-life’ Xi never tested Trump, because they literally didn’t know how he would respond to a provocation.

          Putin tested Biden by invading Ukraine *because* they knew how he would respond, from having known his entire life history up to this point.

          People like Xi and Putin must be confident they know how their enemy will react, because the consequences of being wrong can literally destroy their nation.

          As for the Putin-Biden thing, Putin judged Biden correctly, but he didn’t correctly predict how Europe and the rest of the world would react, as in, motivating Sweden and Finland to join NATO (that *will* happen, BTW), and the rest of the world’s major countries to unite with crushing financial sanctions.

          They just may regret doing that. Putin has stated official Russian policy is that they will never use atomic weapons unless the survival of Russia as a state is threatened. If Putin looks out the Kremlin windows and sees food riots, he may decide a hungry mob just might storm the gates of the Kremlin looking for his head on a pike.

          In that case, Putin might demand the sanctions be stopped immediately, or he will nuke a major western city. As angry as the world’s people are now at Putin after seeing pictures of Ukraine citizens dead littering the streets, I fear the world will refuse to do so, and a city like Hanover, Germany could get nuked.

          The world will be even more outraged, and demand retaliation by nuking a Russian major city like Saint Petersburg.

          And *that* is how WW3 can start. On the upside, ‘Global Warming’ won’t be an immediate concern for a decade or two, and the planet’s overpopulation concerns will be negated for a few hundred years… 🙁

        • On the upside, ‘Global Warming’ won’t be an immediate concern for a decade or two, and the planet’s overpopulation concerns will be negated for a few hundred years…

          I like the optimism. LOL.

          But then Elon Musk cannot help but be correct that underpopulation is the new major issue.

          …which has its upsides too, though I’m not sure I’d argue in favor of a Black Death-like event being the optimal way to boost real wages for the lower and middle class.

    • yep. that’s their gol.

      What I wonder is WHY the People In Charge failed to keep the word of the previous PIC and NOT push NATO into the Ukraine? There is one simple way to end this whole schemozel… make NATO withdraw (there are ANATO troops in the Ukraine right now fighting against Putin.. WHY?) Then tell the Ukriane gummit to leave the people of Crimea and the Donbas alone, let them rejoin Russia their native country for centuries. That;s what both those regions voted to do. Let them.

        • How about the bragging/leaks from the U.S. gov about helping Ukranians shoot down some Russian planes and to sinking their destroyer. Also, who is running all the training of all the new billions of dollars of weaponry being sent? The planes/destroyer I believe definately crosses the line into combat.

        • “Also, who is running all the training of all the new billions of dollars of weaponry being sent?”

          The USA isn’t all of NATO, genius. Other nation’s propriety weapon systems being sent are providing the people for training on those systems…

        • Just like in the United States Army, most of the weapons training is being conducted by contractors, not military personnel.

      • “NOT push NATO into the Ukraine?”

        What actions were taken to “push NATO into the Ukraine?”

        “make NATO withdraw (there are ANATO troops in the Ukraine right now fighting against Putin.. WHY?)”

        Really? Perhaps you would care to cite your source for that particular claim?

  8. Putin is just another Saddam. In fact I’d be willing to be Saddam’s army was actually better. They could actually do things like, you know, fuel their vehicles and had tires that worked.

    • LOL. Putie gots 6000 nukes. And he may be dying. I read the bible. The apocalypse is quite close. In no way is Russia a toothless enemy. Clueless…

      • Yeah, their doomsday submarines sound like a real treat too. Supposesdly the latest is the Russian Belgorod ‘Doomsday’ Submarine. But Biden has this all under control. “Hey man, trust me”.

      • They’re the definition of toothless. In all my reading of history I’d like anyone to correct me if I’m wrong, but please point to any other army in all human history that’s been so ate up? Only possible contender I can even think of is maybe the ANA last year collapsing to the Taliban so quickly. But they were never really expected to do well anyway. Russia was supposed to be a “near peer”, and Russia’s logistics are an absolute embarrassment. I honestly think the Russian army in 2022 will probably go down as the worst and dumbest army in history.

        • … point to any other army in all human history that’s been so ate up?”

          Off the top of my head;

          Darius I’s defeat at Marathon, Xerxes I’s invasion of Greece was destroyed at the battles of Salamis (naval) and Plataea (ground), both Athens and Sparta at various times in the Peloponnesian War, Carthage in Punic Wars II and III, a number of the Crusades, the Ottoman Empire’s losses to Muhammed Ali (Egypt).

          More modern; several smaller wars in Africa, Germany in Russia, the French in Algeria.

          What should be the real embarrassment here is the US’s overestimation of Russian capacity, particularly after the invasion of Georgia 14 years ago. Yeah, Russia won but that was a total shitshow in terms of the mismatch that Russia required to do it.

        • I have to disagree. All those armies could feed, clothe, equip, and move their troops, regardless of how poorly they performed or how dumb their commanders were.

          The Russians literally can’t feed their men or fuel their vehicles or fix their vehicles, to the point where even if they “could”, they couldn’t because someone would sell the shit off for personal gain before making it to the front.

        • If that’s how you wish to define it, so be it.

          IMHO, comparisons still come under said conditions from Germany in Russia and Napoleon too.

          Honestly, it’s a step up from ’08 in some regards. In that case the Russians launched what amounted to a fair chunk of a mechanized corps from a base ~35km from the border with Georgia. Nearly 1/3rd of the vehicles broke down before making it to that border.

          At least this time they made it across the border before getting embarrassed. But they don’t seem to have learned much from what happened after they crossed that border.

        • To me at least, what makes them worse now is they didn’t learn anything from that debacle, and they supposedly had dumped billions into modernization to become a competitor. After over a decade for a chance to fix it, they’re not any better.

          I’m personally shocked at just how much Russia sucks at logistics and strategy. I’ve been following this war closely from the outset and the epic failures at every single level… are nothing short of amazing. They have even forgotten their very own history of things that did work in WW2 that they were proud of.

        • They have even forgotten their very own history of things that did work in WW2 that they were proud of.

          This oddity hasn’t escaped my notice but I have no good explanation for it. It’s strange behavior indeed. When this whole thing started I expected them to use armor in a land method similar to MacArthur’s island hopping campaign while treating major cities as islands to be encircled and cutoff. They didn’t do that. They even released propaganda videos of their “fast push forward” that showed armored units digging in… Not pressing your main advantage, WTAF?

          The logistics, I suspect, can be explained by many decades of corruption creating what amounts to a culture of corruption. For every unit of currency spent for military upgrades and repairs on paper I suspect a large percentage finds its way to other places IRL.

          If my second supposition is correct then it’s not unreasonable to propose that it’s possible the two might be linked insofar as they don’t do what you’d expect because their hardware won’t let them.

          The whole thing is strange. The only overarching thought I’ve had, though I haven’t dwelt on it much, is that it’s possible Putin sees Ukraine as a sideshow to a larger currency war against dollar hegemony because he knows we’re dependent on that. If that’s the case it’s possible that he wanted sanctions because he believes that US debt makes weaponization of the USD a double edged sword and that we’ll bleed out before he will due to the dollar losing world-reserve status with a quickness. After all, he has things that are nominally traded in dollars, lots of them, those things are quite important world-wide and sanctions mean lots of people looking for ways around the sanctions which means dumping the dollar.

          At a glance that wouldn’t actually be a terrible plan given the totality of circumstances.

      • “I read the bible. The apocalypse is quite close.”

        People were convinced of that in the mid 1940s, Water Walker…

  9. It is quality trolling.

    That whole situation is a mess and half. Nearly unbelievable that we spent 20 years helping create it.

    That doesn’t justify Putin’s behavior IMHO but it explains a Hell of a lot of it.

      • Major international relations folks have been advancing a portion of your argument for at least 15 years. It certainly has salient points.

        I actually wrote a paper on the topic in 2008 and presented it at a conference, though it was specific to Moldova’s relationship with Moscow, not Ukraine’s. But I made a somewhat similar argument about the CIS area in general, that we were needling the Russians unnecessarily and that this seemed unwise for about 15 pages worth of reasons, mostly based on the previous 40 pages of history and context.

        Russia’s behavior in the region makes sense in a number of historical contexts as well as current geo-politics. Ours seems stuck around 1975 for some reason.

        • Putin has said he considers the USSR breaking up as the greatest Russia national tragedy, and he has vowed to restore it in his lifetime.

          Which may be substantially shorter than he would prefer, if reports of recent abdominal cancer surgery rumors are to be believed.

          Personally, I think Putin dying is irrelevant, as Putin has already hand-picked his survivor, and he is just as bad as Putin himself… 🙁

        • Putin has said he considers the USSR breaking up as the greatest Russia national tragedy, and he has vowed to restore it in his lifetime.

          Something I simply don’t get because I don’t really “get” Russian culture. I can see the effects in the real-world but I can’t grasp the meaning the way Russians do.

          Lex Fridman has tried to sort of explain it (he’s Russian by birth) and I just don’t get it. The suffering of the Russians in WWII did something to the collective consciousness of that country that I doubt I could ever understand.

  10. That’s why I say we have no hope for change except by force. This country has been taken over by corrupt politicians for over 45 years. Everyone one that in government from the past 45 years has baggage. They all need to be put on trial and investigated.i do home work ….. 𝐰𝐨𝐫𝐤𝐬𝐜𝐥𝐢𝐜𝐤.𝐜𝐨𝐦

      • “my dog ate my homework.”

        That paper was ‘just asking for it’, according to the dog in question… 🙂

  11. You all think that Bidens just a dementia-stricken old fool that got us into an endless, ensnarled mess. Hah, as soon as he has confirmation of Burisma’s headquarters and all of it’s records being destroyed, it’ll be “Hasta la Vista, Baby”… doesn’t it just bring a tear to your eyes to see what a good parent is willing to do for their kids ?

  12. There is much more going on than meets the eye with this conflict. I believe it is paving the way to the dollar falling from use as the preferred global unit of exchange, food chain collapse, making fossil fuels so expensive they are irrelevant, the rise of universal digital currency and every other mad, hellish goal the WEF and Davos crowd has openly stated as their end game. Call me crazy, but thinking that things will get better, just wait till the midterms or Trump 2024 is pie in the sky dumbness. This world is getting exponentially screwed up and evil by the day. It’s time to face it, get right with God and take extra good care of those you love most.

  13. “It’s time to face it, get right with God”

    You know it’s all finished almost 2000 years ago, Jesus was resurrected and took the righteous up to heaven, we are living now in a post-rapture world.

    Or do you doubt the very words of Jesus Christ as recorded in the King James Bible:

    Mark 13:30

    “Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.“

    I know how important it is financially to continue to sell this whole resurrection and rapture scam, but Jesus himself said it was going to happen in the lifetime of the disciples so it’s all over but the shouting.

    • That’s actually kind of cool to think about. So if the rapture happened already back then, we’re 2,000 years into the rule of Satan. Now, what happens if a mortal human finds a way to figure out who satan is and kills him? Does the mortal human then gain all of Satans power?

      • miner has a different God. The all powerful .gov. He’s as big a fanatic as any bible thumper I’ve ever met.

      • “Do you believe in God“

        I have examined many of the god(s) claims, as well as other supernatural phenomena claims, but as of yet I’ve seen no credible evidence for the existence of any particular deity or supernatural force.

        I have studied the Bible(s) extensively, as well as other ‘holy books’ and found no evidence to support the claims therein.

        Faith alone is not a reliable method to find truth.

        • Miner49er —

          Then perhaps you can help me to understand. I’m still having a difficult time wrapping my head around this:

          — Last year (2018), CBS News reported that Iceland is ‘close to eradicating’ Down syndrome since prenatal screening became available. What they really mean is that people with Down syndrome are being eradicated by selective abortion. —

          Miner49er —
          “Yes, sometimes parents in many countries make hard decisions about their pregnancy. And when God chooses to inflict the suffering of Down’s syndrome on an embryo, sometimes parents feel it is better to terminate the pregnancy rather than condemn a child to a short life of confusion and depression.”

        • I’m sorry it seems confusing, but I have found it is useful to adopt the vernacular of the those who claim a belief in a particular sky daddy when discussing their position on issues.

          Personally, I consider what we call downs syndrome as a negative random mutation, most likely caused by stray cosmic rays or environmental chemicals.

          And I think it is perfectly morally acceptable for women to choose not to carry a severely handicapped embryo to full-term. Those who insist that must be the case need to step up and publicly take responsibility for the down syndrome children we already have, or else I would consider their position devoid of merit and misleading.

        • Miner49er —

          “I have found it is useful to adopt the vernacular of the those who claim a belief in a particular sky daddy when discussing their position on issues.”

          You assumed my religious beliefs when you replied to my statement. “Adopt(ing) the vernacular of the those who claim a belief in a particular sky daddy” smacks of condescension, as does your previous remark concerning the Biblical rapture — giving the appearance that you don’t respect one’s religious views when they differ from yours. Am I wrong?

          “And I think it is perfectly morally acceptable for women to choose not to carry a severely handicapped embryo to full-term.”

          How about a couple who uses abortion to select the sex of their child? The science of genetic screening is becoming more sophisticated and precise — how about a couple who learns that their child will have red hair?

          Should abortion be a choice for any reason, at any time during the pregnancy? Why not post-partum? A proposed California law shield a mother from civil and criminal charges for any “actions or omissions” related to her pregnancy, “including miscarriage, stillbirth, or abortion, or perinatal death.

        • “previous remark concerning the Biblical rapture“

          Well, first I’m not sure what you mean by “biblical rapture”, the word rapture is not in the Bible.

          “the appearance that you don’t respect one’s religious views when they differ from yours. Am I wrong?“

          I have as much respect for those who believe in Jehovah as I do for those who believe in Jesus, Shiva, Allah, Odin, Thor, unicorns and Bigfoot.

          My problem is with those who would impose their religious views on others, for instance when an employee works and earns healthcare benefits but the employer limits those benefits based on their personal religious beliefs.

          And I find it particularly unsatisfactory when an individual would insist another individual must bear the risk and cost of pregnancy, birth and child rearing for a minimum of 18 years without the person actually doing the work having any say in the matter.

          And another issue would be the restriction on the purchase of contraceptive products by free individuals, because some other individual’s religious beliefs forbid the use of contraception.

          In America, we have erected a wall of separation between church and state, and I think providence daily for that freedom.

          “Should abortion be a choice for any reason, at any time during the pregnancy? Why not post-partum?“

          Personally, I don’t think that’s the case for most reasonable people. Are you aware of any state (other than your mention of possible California legislation) that currently allows abortion for any reason at any time during the pregnancy and/or post-partum?

          As you didn’t provide the text of the California lol you cite, it’s difficult for me to respond on that issue.

          I will say, I’m not sure why there is so much focus on the abortion issue, when America can’t keep our infants alive as well as most other civilized countries, it’s a shame that we spend more money than most countries on healthcare and yet our babies die more often.

          “Today, the average rate of infant mortality among OECD countries is 3.8 deaths per 1,000 live births. At 5.8 deaths per 1,000 live births, the United States ranks No. 33 out of 36 OECD countries“

        • And soon we’ll have government tracking women’s menstrual cycles, in order to prevent ‘misconduct’ and ensure that no woman may control her own body and reproductive health.

          “Texas Republicans say if Roe falls, they’ll focus on adoptions and preventing women from seeking abortions elsewhere

          State leaders say expanding a social safety net for children and prosecuting abortion funders are among their priorities. “We’ll continue to do our best to make abortion not just outlawed, but unthinkable,” said state Rep. Briscoe Cain.


          “These include last year’s Senate Bill 8, which empowers private citizens to sue anyone who “abets” an abortion after six weeks of gestational age, as well as unenforced pre-Roe abortion statutes criminalizing a person who gets the procedure, which the Legislature never repealed — some dating to the 1850s.”

          The dirty little secret of anti-abortion laws is the fact that they were initially passed in order to prevent slaves from cutting into the profit margins of their owners. After the importation of slaves into America was banned, the farming of black American women as broodmares to provide new slaves to sell for profit became big business. Many enslaved mothers to be, hoping to save their child from a life of misery and abuse would often seek help in aborting their pregnancy, thus cutting into the profits of the slave masters.

          And even worse, many of the slave babies sold down the river for profit, were sired by the white masters themselves, advances in DNA testing and identification have proved that Thomas Jefferson sold his own children into slavery for profit.

          We have to face the fact that the constitution was written for the express purpose of benefiting ritch, white men and until the people of America get a grip on the amendment process, there will continue to be abuses of human rights and dignity in this country

        • No matter the question, the answer is always racism. Also, not killing more innocent, defenseless babies is an assault on human rights and dignity. Let’s close out with agreeing how bad the founders were as well as all rich white men (*turns and spits) unless they’re Democrats, of course!

          P.S. Your stupid religion sucks, but I will always defend Muslims!

          Your loving, accepting, tolerant neighborhood progressive.

  14. Wow the trolls are out in force… I just want to know what model pistol that is supposed to be…

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