Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School’s uniformed School Resource Officer Scot Petersen failed to engage spree killer Nikolas Cruz as the teenager murdered 17 people and injured 14 more. Deputy Petersen stood outside the building 14 and waited for backup. This is hardly the first time a law enforcement official has stood by while innocent life was taken . . .
Police entered the Pulse nightclub where Islamic terrorist Omar Mateen was killing patrons — then left. Then waited hours to engage Mateen, while wounded victims bled to death.
Since the Columbine massacre, police have been trained to directly engage an active shooter as soon as possible, without waiting for backup. And while the Supreme Court has ruled that police don’t have a legal obligation to risk their lives to protect us, we expect it. Rightly so, IMHO.
The question is: could you do it? Could you run towards gunfire to save innocent life? While we’re at it, is it reasonable to expect armed teachers to find and confront a spree killer or killers?
It’s not the job description that matters, it’s the person reacting that counts. Aaron Feis, unarmed teacher and school security guard, ran to the sound of guns. Scott Peterson, armed deputy sheriff, didn’t. Aaron, not allowed to have a gun because he was only a teacher, put his body between the kids he taught and the killer, saved lives and died. Deputy Scott Peterson took up a position outside the school and listened to the sound of gunfire for four minutes while kids died.
Very interesting data. Thank you.
This old coot finally traded down to a .22LR pistol for two reasons. First, my arthritis finally made operating my Glock 26 slide very painful and almost impossible. Second, I moved to a tropical climate (shorts and with no beer gut I tuck in my t-shirt). No open carry allowed. So I have a 13 oz. 8+1 pistol with a flip-up barrel! Love it. Practice regularly. Feel safe (and comfortable) carrying it virtually everywhere. I sure as heck wouldn’t want to stand in front of it.
The police won’t know who’s who when they bring their guns to stop a spree killing!
Well, there is something funny about that. It was discovered that if a plain clothes cop out his badge, there was a VERY good chance that he would get blasted by responding SWAT. So it is a good idea to teach the teachers NOT to hold out their arms at a cop with something shiny in your hand.
Is it not his job to ensure the safety of the premises?
Scared – yes.
Advance – that’s part of ensuring safety.
Run blindly into the scene – ehhh…..
Good points.
I hope I would. I also hope I will never need to find out.
I’ve moved towards gunfire before. It’s not a gaurantee, but I’d hope…and feel…I would again.
I hope I would. I also hope I will never need to find out.
My ancestors were in wars, but I was slightly late for Vietnam. Military was generally not enthusiastic about my eyesight ( neither was I ).
Never heard a gun fired in anger.
Did train gun on bad guy about to break into house. Watch the adrenaline rush.
Have watched people die, but not combat related. Not fun.
Have fought some small fires. Smoke really gets to you.
Have cleaned up after tornadoes. Dead chickens all over the county. The smell.
Have kept my wits after me being in really bad car wrecks. Harder than you think when you are about to pass out.
Not much of a hero. Grandfather was. Father maybe.
I’d like to think that I could, but I don’t know. Luckily, I’ve never been in that situation.
With regard to the teachers, what I think is reasonable is for an armed teacher to secure his/her own classroom and protect the students under his/her care, or, if necessary, protect those students while escaping the building.
I think that relying on them to hunt down and eliminate the threat is unrealistic, but armed teachers would substantially harden the target and reduce casualties should another event like this occur.
Good points here as well.
If my job were to protect and serve then hell yes I’m moving toward the sounds of gun fire. As a normal joe… Only if it’s a school or my family is in the building.
As for US ‘normal joes’, fools rush in, to find us making coffee.
I’m only 36 but I’ve lived a good life, fuck sitting back and letting a mad man kill children!
Assuming I was there as a uniformed police officer, hell yes I would go after the shooter. As a private citizen I would have to say probably not. My philosophy about these situations is that as a private citizen if I can’t either see or hear that the shooter is within a couple doors from my location I won’t attempt to hunt the shooter. Attempting to play seek and destroy is one of the best ways to lose a gunfight as a civilian. No backup, no intel, no body armor. And that is not even considering the chance that I would be caught in a coverless kill zone (i.e. hallway). This is also about the only situation where the antis argument of confusing the police or another defender could be possible.
Really “no body armor” no get of ass? Perhaps a MRAP is needed also?
I have been shot at and I have shot back. But the one that scared me the most was being in a burning building. But I managed to override that fear and do what was needed.
As long as I don’t have to ride a helicopter to the site. No more choppers.
If I was the SRO, hell yeah I’d go in. That’s what I would be there to do, not hide outside begging for backup and soiling my panties.
Is it reasonable to expect armed teachers to turn the tables on a school shooter? Most teachers can’t even teach, so how can we expect them to guard children.
Still, in any school, there might be one or two teachers with the stones to take down a gunman. And one or two should be enough.
I trust a teacher who is willing to train more than the typical cop who is assigned to be a SRO.
We’ve repeatedly seen (though not in every case) that teachers have sacrificed themselves to protect their students. This was true at Parkland.
Having served in a combat unit exposed day after day to absurd danger (Lam Son 719 etc.) my take is that we all did ridiculously dangerous things because we had built emotional bonds to the rest of the aircrew. It is that emotional bond that induces unhesitating action. I think (some) teachers would have this, but an SRO rarely would. The issue is worth study.
Post-Columbine active shooter training dictates you run towards the gunfire, not wait for backup, no matter how badly you are outgunned or outnumbered. Period. Anyone who has taken active shooter training in the past decade has had this beaten into their heads.
Yes, but you need to be will to actual do it. Do you think a typical high school cop has the guts. Not saying that they all are that way, but if I was a Sheriff, where do you thing I’m going to assign my best personal?
Dead ore glorious and the winner takes all
The question we are being asked is whether we would move from where we are to find and counterattack a killer. I think that’s not quite the right question.
The NRA, and now Trump, have called for arming teachers and staff at schools. A killer will – sooner or later – confront a teacher/staffer with his gun. Thereupon, she will have an easy decision: Kill or be killed. I would expect that the survival instinct would kick-in. If I don’t shoot then I will be shot; and so will many of the children in the room I’m in.
Do we believe/NOT-beleive that graduates of Education schools can figure out what to do when facing such a dilemma?
Lock and load go in and terminate the shooter
I propose a far different question. Why would you send your children into that environment in the first place?
Since most government “school” teachers and administrators are socialists or worse, they are very unlikely to want to arm themselves at all. So that’s pretty much a non-starter. Armed guards, including those who are just picking up a paycheck, would not help much. One or two “guards” would be meaningless in any school half the size of the one in Florida.
The small risk of a mass shooting is not the real problem, of course. The problem is the marxist/feminazi program being indoctrinated into the children every day, pretty much everywhere in government “schools.”
The answer to a lot of problems with government ruined, tax funded “schools” is a total separation of education and state. No control, no tax funds. Parents are responsible for the health, education and safety of themselves and their children. Not government.
I too have long been an advocate of separation of school and state. Private schools could adjust to changing circumstances where as public school really can’t.
Public schools are controlled by local voters. The reason private schools are better is that the family’s that put the kids in the school are for more likely to actual care about the kids education. If ALL the kids went to private school, how would it be any different than public?
My kid goes to Public School. And guess what, I live where I live because of the schools. I care about my kids education and I live in a city where that is true for the majority of parents. The only “private” school around here are for people who are not secular.
Only have firefighting experience to draw from, but the old rule of thumb was “risk a little to save a little, risk a lot to save a lot”. A school full of kids qualifies as “a lot”.
Based on past experience, if I didn’t have somebody with me who took priority over strangers, I probably would. I’ve never been one to go away from criminal danger that was in what I consider my space, but I’ve never had to deal with hostile gun fire either, so I can’t say for sure.
My county denies me my right to bear arms and my skinny body wouldn’t be much of a human shield. So it doesn’t make much difference.
I respect your comment. It does pique my interest.
Are you saying you would not try something, anything?
Or because you are not armed, you would not go in?
David and Goliath comes to mind. So does the “Oh crap, someone challenging me…” idea.
I hope we never have to be put in that situation to find out if our thoughts vs reality are one in the same.
I would not want to have the name Scot(t) Peterson.
Scott Peterson, Modesto California – December 2002 – cowardly kills his pregnant wife and baby.
Scot Peterson, Parkland Florida – February 2018 – cowardly hides to avoid entering a school shooting event to save the children.
Dumbest idea I’ve heard from a politician in a while.. Until we get rid of the “gun free zones”.. we are just buying time till the next slaughter…
Someone really should remind him that with modern technology, guns can be “printed”… NO AGE LIMIT.. OR BACKGROUND CHECK REQUIRED..!
I refuse to support any addition infringement on the 2nd Amendment.., until we get rid of these areas!!!
Nobody knows how they would react in the same situation. I have, and would do it again. Law enforcement officers across the nation are trained for active shooter situations, but until the lead is flying, ya just don’t know. We are not trained to run blindly into such a situation, but to move in with as much concealment and cover as possible until you can take out the bad guy. I’m sure some of the school employees are former military who can handle the problem. Some of the employees are ccw permit holders who train often and can probably handle it. But until you’ve actually been in such situations, Who knows?
I would like to think so. If the scenario was – my daughter were in the high school and I was waiting to pick her up and knew, heard or see a shooting happening and did not see Leo’s going in – I would go in. Or grab that Leo hiding outside and go in. If they were unwilling to go then I would hope I have the fortitude to go solo.
My wife and I had this conversation the other day and she told me she would go down fighting – she’s a LEO. Since she doesn’t wear a uniform she is fully aware that she would most likely get shot by friendly fire but that would the price to pay if she were able to slow down or engage the shooter.
She was pissed, as well as I, when we read the news about the deputy not going in. Just dumbfounded.
Seems to me that Leo’s about to retire have no interest in risking anything. They need a desk job or to retire. This is an example of many many failures. We don’t need new laws, we need people willing to enforce the ones we have. Peterson deserves to be shamed for life. He was being paid to be at that school and he did nothing, being the only armed person there. As to the question at hand, I know anyone would go in, especially if they have children there. They would risk it and probably would end up in jail for bringing a firearm to a school.
We have seen disarmed teachers intentionally putting themselves in the line of fire and taking bullets to protect their students. I personally know several teachers who shoot, play instruments, golf, or engage in other types of activities, as well as teaching. I bet you do too. That kind of puts the lie to the stupid arguments that assume all teachers are cowards and “one trick ponies” don’t you think?
I would love to find out that X-Products is just a retailer for the Can Cannon. Because I REALLY wanted to launch grappling hooks.
But, of course, I can’t give the money for it to that douchenozzle.
Yes.
Sheriffs Dept, Police Dept, Fire Dept.and Ambulance Crews are paid and expected risk their lives and protect others.
Not stand out side
Those are some long claws.
Yep. Things like that are why man starting tool making.
I hear bear paws are the tastiest part of the bear.
If you’re a man, the answer is yes, you HAVE to run in. Men would do that. Women and soy boys don’t.
I’ve never been under fire, so I don’t really know what I would do. But part of the reason for having armed guards or a few teachers is that a shooter is to keep him off guard. He never knows which classrooms have a gun waiting.
condoms?
uh, wait, that’s not it.
oh, I got it: a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range!
It’s a rather grey area. If I was responding within the school, close to the shooter, then yes, ambushing or engaging the shooter sounds like the best course of action.
Outside the school, it would make sense to stay outside. You have thousands of students running outside screaming bloody murder through any exit available; that’s not order, that’s a stampede. And since the majority of these shooters are young enough to blend in as students, unless you can positively ID the shooter as they are firing a weapon within a crowd you don’t know who’s a threat and who isn’t. Combined with possibly having to shoot your weapon through a stampede of fleeing students, it was frankly wiser to stay outside.
No situation is clear cut, and all factors must be taken into account, because frankly we were not in this officers shoes. We don’t know what was going through his head when he was responding, what he saw coming to the scene of the crime, and with hindsight being 20/20 we can armchair this crap all we want.
My .02, he did the smarter decision of not barging in against a tide of fleeing high schoolers and dealing with the possibility of causing further casualties firing against a target that hadn’t been identified and that hid like a coward amongst his former peers after the deed was done.
22 years law enforcement, I’ve run in before I will run in again. There is only one word to describe Deputy Scot Peterson who watched and listened to the students being massacred that he knew and was supposed to be protecting: C O W A R D! ! ! !
A coward dies a thousand deaths, may each of his be miserable. He was equipped and trained, a good guy with a gun could have stopped this much sooner than it did. Yet one more link in the government incompetence that failed to prevent that young mad man from becoming a madman.
Thank you for running in. I know it doesn’t express enough.
Perhaps, someday, even in my advanced age, I can do what you have done. Semper vigilans, brother.
…….with a Dillon mini-gun!
What did the hammer bring down?
He’s lucky the bear didn’t take the rifle from him and use it. After all, we’re constantly told that’s what will happen if we foolishly attempt to defend ourselves with firearms…
(pun about bear arms)
The M&P M2.0 Compact is an excellent pistol. I have been waiting for Smith to produce a good Glock 19 size pistol, and this is it. Accurate out of the box, feels good in the hand, the sights look and work well, and it loads and shoots perfectly. The trigger is as good as it gets. And it fits in my concealed carry vest. This is the largest pistol that will fit in my vests. I prefer the model with a thumb safety. That trigger is a little light in my opinion to carry without the thumb safety.
SW M&P’s are the best pistols I own and I have many, Sigs, other Smiths, Glocks, Springfield Armory, Ruger. Most of those are alright pistols the exception being the Glocks. I can’t get along with Glocks, they force my trigger finger down into the trigger guard and it pinches my finger. Never again a Glock.
I’d like to think I would. BUT…let’s face it, it’s a sudden, LOUD, scary=@ass thing to hear a firearm in an enclosed environment. Not being there, I hope I would have at least moved SOMEWHERE to end the threat. But I can’t rightly say because it’s never happened to me.
I HAVE responded to an emergency situation (aircraft maintenance) where my training prevailed and it was a happy ending. That’s as far as I can state. There were no firearms or violence involved.
Do I fault the deputy? Absolutely. If nothing else, for doing nothing BEFORE the knucklehead acted. He should have his pension stripped. He obviously was one of those just milking the system.
I believe that teachers should be allowed to carry firearms if they feel confident they can make a difference.
In the old days, we had a term for what this scumbag did. It was called “cowardice in the face of the enemy”… I think in this case, the punishment should be the same as it was then.
As for would I “rush in”? Probably not. I’d take the time to grab my ANTI-ANTIFA kit from under my passenger’s seat and throw on the plate carrier with the big ‘ole “SECURITY CONTRACTOR” badge on the back. The MP5 would stay bagged until I know exactly what’s going on. (and yes, I ride around with a condition 1 MP5K “pistol” under my passenger seat.)
To be fair the folks who were guilty of cowardice in such cases were not in this guy’s situation. They had NCO’s and Officers telling them what to do, putting a proverbial (and sometimes probably actual) boot up their ass and they STILL didn’t do what they were supposed to. Usually multiple times before they were charged with cowardice.
It’s entirely possible that with another person telling this guy “Comon’ we gotta go get this motherfucker” that he’d have jumped up and done the right thing. Really, there’s no way to know but having someone say shit like that to you is a good motivator to get up and go do work.
This guy had one job. His cowardice caused him to not do it. Ask me how much I care about the details.
I don’t think anyone can say for sure how they would respond in that situation but I like to think I would have gone in. I may not have the formal training of a cop but I don’t know how well I could live with myself if I knew what was happening and did nothing when I had the chance.
Gunfire in a school, church, office building, grocery store, hell yes. Bar or back alley, nope.
I think many teachers could make a big difference in school shootings. The coach that was killed last week was a ccw holder. If he had more than his body to shield kids with he could have made a real difference.
It’s what I trained to do. So, yes.
Wow.
Yep. You jump through all the hoops to get the proper paperwork to hunt one. Then you spend season after season enduring physical hardship to get one.
Dude bags one on the way to the fridge to get a midnite snack. Life ain’t fair.
On a related note. How would touching off your .375 in a hallway work? Sound wise.
WHAT???
Well played jwm, well played!
A .375 H&H fired at a bear in the hallway would probably sound like the Second Coming and cause structural damage.
JESUS might think they were starting without him.
jk
/sarc, and please pardon the blasphemy. After hearing a .375 H&H on the range, and having heard various and sundry U.S. Military ordinance, I cannot even slightly fathom what the Second Coming will sound like. I pity us.
With the amount of school shootings we have had, has anyone gone in and tried to stop them other than police (when they actually did, no thanks to this last dip). Surely someone who was CCing has been nearby and done nothing.
One more thing I meant to post regarding this SRO. Most of the SROs I know could not cut it on the street or wanted to get away from the street because they felt they couldn’t handle it anymore or want an easy gig to preclude their retirement. You think they will actually make a run towards the gunfire?
First, let me preface my response with:
We are in a Culture War and there will only be one victorious side
As in all wars, there will be casualties on both sides. There is no convincing the other side they are wrong and there is no winning by being amicable. You win or you lose, and my goal is not die for my side, but let the enemy die for theirs.
————————
All lives are not equal
If my child were in that school, my mission would be to save my child. Whether that’s by means of reaching and extracting my child or directly engaging and neutralizing the shooter if the opportunity presented itself. If, in my efforts to save my offspring, I’ll inadvertently save a number of progressive non-binary tide pod eating kids that will spend their adult lives trying to abolish our constitution and virtues with their progressive BS, well that’s an unfortunate reality. However, I suppose the odds are I’ll be saving some future patriots as well that will grow up and perhaps return the favor some day. My idealistic goal is to save people worth saving, people that share my values and who will grow up useful in society and bring benefit to the world in some positive way. The rest, frankly, can jump off a cliff. One benefit I can immediately think of is we’d have no more traffic.
Reap what you sow
If I had no children and the children of relatives or close friends were in danger (and they shared my values), I would attempt to help them in any way that I could. After all families are a village, meaning if I died trying to save a relatives’ child, I would rest assured my relatives would take care of mine. But that doesn’t pan out with strangers. Most are likely not to remember you after a few weeks.
So, I’m a proponent of you reap what you sow. Meaning, you deserve the full consequences of your actions (or inactions) in life. So, if knew a bunch of anti-gunner offspring were in a school that is operating with the full direction of the Left’s legislation, then I’ll happily let their principles and their actions decide their fate.
Sheeple will always be victims and for the most part, they simply can’t help themselves because of ignorance, low intelligence, or both. There is no reward for being a sheep dog and you’re more likely to be shamed in today’s society than praised. So why put yourself through that?
So no, I won’t throw away my one life for random strangers. I would rather live and be one more productive member of “my village” and let Darwin sort out the rest.
The Republicans are definitely not going to be winning any elections. By pandering to The Moms and Bloomberg, they will discover that conservatives who support the second amendment won’t be voting for them. And trying to be the new, Diet Cherry Vanilla Democrats isn’t going to win votes with the progressives calling for socialism, complete disarming, etc. Playing the middle won’t win them any friends… Or votes.
Bloomberg must be smiling.
Who deserves the most blame, the shooter who started this round of attacks… Or those exploiting the situation?
RUN in nope
enter the RIGHT way yes!
Look at what is going on here
on your side
you KNOW where they are
You know this school…every corner, every nook, every spot to gain the advantage! THIS IS YOUR HOME!
you are trained—in this cops case?
you are calm…knowing you have the upper hand
the shooters disadvantages!
They don’t know you are coming
don’t know from where you are coming…they have to search 360 at all times!
don’t know this school–that is a maybe?
they are not likely trained at all–except ‘call of duty’ video games! LOL
they are a raging nutter that is crazier!
you the cop or guard have the advantage
you don’t have to kill the guy
just shoot his way once and he will go to ground is the likely outcome
a shot now and then will keep him pinned until help comes!
Then its Pinata time! with bullets!
the cop that was there was no cop—-that was a chicken in a cop suit!
weak yellow bellied pussy!
The NYT is a branch of the anti-gun agit-prop machine. These folks hate ARs, along with AKs, MAC-10s, TEC-9s, or any other firearm that the current AWB movement is focusing on in the press. In the 1980s the NYT launched screeds, along with the swimmer Ted Kennedy, condemning .30-30 caliber ammunition as “COP-KILLER” bullets. Tomorrow it will be something else, it really doesn’t matter to them whether it’s .177 BBs or .50BMG ammo. The NYT wants a ban on all firearms or any item that might resemble a firearm.
As members of a shared culture (society), we have the ethical obligation to act if we can further a morally sound goal, or diminish a morally reprehensible action. The safety and lives of children are almost uniformly placed at the top of ethical tenets worldwide. Choosing yourself over children is the epitome of dishonor. Is it understandable, in this situation, why he chose/felt forced to wait? I can empathize with the fears and dangers that may have forced him to not only wait, but to hide (he left the building). But, I still don’t find it right. His profession, armament, and location are almost negligible compared to his requirement as a human being to safeguard children.
I would have gone in.
Best advice I ever received: Death before Dishonor. The trials will forge your principles.
Worst advice I ever received: Death before Dishonor. The weight can crush your dreams, relationships and life.
“Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain.”
May we all find peace.
I have owned a 9MM Hi Point now for many years. I have hit water filled soda bottles and paper plates, my favorite targets, at 25′ with no problem. The only problem I ever had was the cartridge jamming I fixed this by relieving the two little clips at the top front of the main clip with a pair of needle nose pliers.
Hell yes. I live right next to a school and if I heard gunfire erupting from it, I’d arm myself and head on in. Despite how much I hate indoctrination centers, the only way to convince others of the importance of guns, is to show them that Good Guys with Guns exist!
That said, I’m not sure what I’d do when the police arrive. Most police are good, honest, trustworthy people, but I seem to encounter a lot of morons with badges where I live.
Because of the illegal rules in my living area I have to be very discrete in my carry. A J frame in a pocket holster works best for me.
I caught a break from a cop once for illegal carry. I hope to not have to rely on the next cops discretion.
On most days I carry a SR1911 or a Glock 23 open or concealed.
It is all about how one dresses in cooler climates one can conceal most any hand gun.
The more and more open carry becomes common the less one has to worry about any printing.
The freer the state one lives in the less one has to worry.
Any more I tend to open carry more then concealed.
Each to his own.
Why should “Teachers” get a right to carry at work when the general population generally cannot? How about the same right for all. Either everyone can carry or none.
“…The question is: could you do it? Could you run towards gunfire to save innocent life?”
No.
But only because I have reached a point physically where running is not an option even to save my own life.
Which is why I carry, because I can’t outrun anything faster than blind three-legged squirrels. And they could probably overtake me too.
To be clear….. what I would or wouldn’t’ do, could or couldn’t do only effects me. If you can run then go for it. If you just want to hide until you get a shot or it’s over that’s cool too.
However….. none of that rambling bit above should be construed into thinking I wouldn’t take the shot if I had it. If I can delay/stop the shooter then by golly I am going to delay or stop the threat.
Wow — Rick Scott managed to get pretty much everything exactly wrong. That’s a little surprising, as he’s Trump’s “bestie” right now.
Total and utter fail in every possible way.
Unless the perspective is off that’s a pretty small griz. A freshly turned-out juvenile looking for a handout maybe?
Also if it was “feasting”, what did it eat? Raspberries by the look of it…
When dealing with a fruit armed assailant, the proper course of action is to release the tiger. It eats the fruit and the fruit laden foe.
It’s a good thing it didn’t have pointed sticks
Once you’ve been a member for five years, you can vote in the elections.
All my range ammo comes from Freedom. They are a good company to deal with and their products seem to be top notch.
What happened to Cap Arms?
Yes, I would go in; if it wasn’t a legally enforcible “Gun Free Zone”.
Unfortunately, it was, so I wouldn’t have been able to go in as a lowly gun permit holder.
I carry a full size hotdog @ 4o’clock with IWB buns, and reloads of ketchup and mustard on my other hip
I shot a grizzly bear in my pajamas……….
Sig P320 carry, full sized grip with 3.9 barrel and slide. 17rounds of Hornady critical duty 135gr +P spare 17rd mag loaded with the same.
There is no doubt in my mind that I would go in immediately, although I would not just run at full speed like a chicken with its head cut-off. I would move at a brisk pace with utmost caution, constantly scanning for available cover or concealment.
i was always curious about their kaboom policy, it seems all over the place even with the new manufacture ammo
Not just NO, FV<K No.
Need a good reason?
FU, you gotta give me one to change it.
The bottom line is that the people have the right to regulate guns like cars should they choose to do so.
From DC vs. Heller: ‘Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.”‘
The federal government could require license, registration, and liability insurance. Licensing provides some oversight that people with firearms can use them safely with lawful intent. Registration allows law enforcement to identify the path of weapons from the lawful market to individuals with illegal intent, critical to law enforcement efforts of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. Liability insurance appropriately reallocates the economic cost ($250 billion dollars a year) back to gun owners.
Additionally universal background checks, i.e. requiring all private sales to go through a background check system which includes all records of violent crime and mental illness, insures that there is sufficient oversight with regard to keeping guns out of the hands of these restricted classes of people.
All these measures are very constitutional based on SCOTUS 2nd amendment stare decisis.
So with that sort of selection, can we look forward to some reviews of more… exotic guns?
🤠
Well there’s a .38 Super in the queue right now, a .300 WM, a couple .380s, a 10mm, a .458 SOCOM soon enough, .224 Valkyrie soon. Nothing too weird, but those calibers weren’t available via our previous couple ammo suppliers so this will be nice.
Funny, the only ammo I’ve ever had multiple issues with is freedom yet I’ve been reading all over the place how good it is. Perhaps it’s time to try another batch….
It is hard to come up with an answer when one does not know what procedures are in place. What dept. policy was taught to the officer before hand will determine what actions will take place during the unfortunate event. Should one rush in and take out the criminal or observe and report to the backup, who and where they are, so that backup does not shoot the wrong people.
PPQ M2 .45, outside Safariland at 4 o’clock, two spare mags at 9. I don’t like being noticed so I just wear a big enough shirt over everything. It’s the same setup I use for paper and steel and once I started carrying this way I hardly even notice it.
I think the real question is, “How did the bear get inside the house?”.
Of course it will be worse. And it will keep getting worse.
Unlike the Left, others can evolve, learn, and adapt for a more favorable outcome.
And now they want to blame the gun? Nothing new there for LIBS/POSDs!! They just won’t face reality that EVIL exists in our world because it doesn’t fit their agenda, which is to disarm us all and exert their “Authority” over all of us! Gotta stop them now!!
Well darn, my 1st comment is awaiting moderation. Sorry if I offended anyone, but judging from comments I’ve seen her thru the years it shouldn’t be FLAME DELETED!
well I guess that proves it is physically possible for a body to survive the amount of drugs it takes to produce a negative I.Q. Now the more pressing matter, how has she not died? Seriously who is constantly with her telling her when to inhale and when to exhale?
Jessica Valenti looks like THE MISSING LINK, a TRANS-HUMAN, devolving into a fetid cistern of stupidity, enamored with its “brilliance”, nothing more than flatulence staring into a mirror…
Ernesto “Ernie” Blonk
Little Jessica thinks that “giving women guns” is a bad idea. I am inclined to agree. Fortunately, the democrat party is not likely to try buying votes, by advocating handing out artillery to people with ovaries, anytime soon. Law abiding females who choose to purchase firearms for self-defense, or any other reason, is a different matter. It is no surprise that a writer for The Guardian lacks the intellectual capacity to make that distinction.
If we’re looking for an idea of what the next school shooting might look like, we need to contemplate even greater horror: Russia’s Belsan school siege. After three days, Russian troops attempted to rescue some 1,100 hostages from 34 Chechen terrorists. In the resulting firefight, 334 people died, including 186 children.
Sooo….did the Russian politicians propose banning AR-15s, banning bump stocks and closing the gun show loophole? Oh, wait, Russia has all sorts of gun control. Really worked swell, didn’t it?
i have just watched a YouTube documentary on the Beslan school siege incident;
some significant evidence that it may well have been a government-organised “false flag”;
in particular: the way that the Russian authorities tried to cover every-thing up after-wards and the strange behaviour of Mr Putin;
interesting tit-bit, though: apparently, the local came out ‘in force’ and armed-to-the-teeth with automatic weapons like AK47s an RPDs ;
i guess that ‘gun laws’ ain’t taken that seriously in Russia….
interesting question: were the Russian gun laws ‘toughened’ after the Beslan incident?
and how did the terrorists equip them-selves with such heavy weaponry as they had?
i also recall the Mumbai incident where terrorists simply landed on the Indian coast by rubber dinghys already fully equipped with automatic weapons, explosives and grenades;
India’s strict gun laws were, quite obviously, no deterrent to them what-so-ever [!]
IIRC…..Dana Perino….The 5 on Fox……
Paraphrasing…..”We should try new ideas on how to stop school shootings like taxing ammo”
UhHuh….I can clearly envision some potetntial mass murderer aborting his evil plan because his ammo expendenture goes up by $10 or so due to new taxes. Yeah I can totally see that.
That’s kinda cool.
I’d love to see a modern version of that, call it a ‘Patriot Insurgent Tool’, for use in foxholes, make it a mega-stick Glock magazine of 300 rounds or so.
Could come in handy for ‘last stand’ scenarios, useful in shooting around corners, etc…
Well they moderated the hell out of my original comment. Oh well… except for calling some Pu…. what they are, I guess I made my point.
There is no “overwhelming research that shows guns are more likely to kill than protect women”.
There is only a steaming pile of garbage advocacy “research”. Agenda-driven propaganda intended, from its conception, to give volume to demands of the hoplophobic control freaks.
Arthur Z Przebinda, M.D.
Project Director
Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership
Mr. Farago, a quick question, if you don’t mind. Do you ever receive replies or queries from the people that write this horribly sexist and patronizing garbage? Do they ever respond to an article you have written in response to theirs? I’m genuinely curious. I once would become almost berserker angry when I see people write this trash or when they post their vitriol on this site, only to be hilariously shamed and proven wrong. But, I’ve honestly just come to the point where when I read what these leftists post, I am sincerely dumbfounded and saddened as to how a somewhat intelligent organism can steadfastly believe their own lies. Do they really not know any better. Like the mike bunch of numbers guy or the resistance patriot American whatever person. They sincerely and feverently believe what they say, despite all the facts and data showing that they should believe otherwise. Then on to the universities that were once a bastion for the attainment of knowledge and wisdom, but, have since denigrated into political partisinism. The social sciences, if you can call them that, are no longer interested in the attainment of such qualities and instead cow and lie for their own interests. When will it end? With a bang, I’m thinking.
They are either Soros/Bloomberg bots or we need to drug test them to find out what type of drugs is effecting their thought processes.
It’s getting even worse with this Emma Gonzalez individual, whom splinter.com ran a headline saying that she handed Dana Loesch her ass. It’s gertijg beyond loony, ecspecialy when you read the comments saying that how could unarmed teachers defeat a school shooter. They believe these shooters are invincible juggernauts and that teachers are bumbling fools unable to operate a simple mechanical object. That has to the most egregious and sickening line of “ reasoning” I have heard so far. That a school shooter, without much training, can kill 14 people, but, a teacher with a similar amount of aptitude is incapable of defending her students and herself. It just boggles my mind. Like I said before, berserker rage even now just reading the headlines about how this school shooting survivor, with no logic or facts to base her arguments upon, handed Mrs. Loesch her ass. What?! How do they honestly convince themselves of such illogical garbage?
You know maybe I’m being too optimistic, but I’m kinda glad the gun grabbers have been turning up the heat lately because it has led to being able to see which politicians are squishy losers that will cave in at nothing and which ones will actually hold the line.
Did she not even take into account that just showing the gun would prevent a rape? Most likely the woman wouldn’t even have to fire.
Of course I would. It’s f*cking kids. What kind of coward stands by while kids are being hurt and/or killed? Well, this deputy, obviously.
Can him.
The 500 lbs. gorilla in the room is right. We have yet to see Muslims using terrorism as a tactic target children in the interior of America – yet. Down dudes with guns vs. the Maginot Line. The only response that works against jihadis is a well armed man that is ready to send said jihadi into the afterlife.
I have a 54-1 that never, ever, unless needed, leaves my IWB. Occasionally I carry a 1911 in a cross draw, but the 54-1 is always there
All I’ve got to say is ” godamn the mess on the floor that fuckin bear made” Son a bitch don’t shoot no skunks under the porch either
You would never see Wonder Woman using one of these things
This is the question, is it not? What would you do when it might matter?
That’s terrifying, six different ways. Better to make sure what you can do never matters, and shut down anyone else who might make a different choice.
At botton the “anti” positions are just symptoms of people desperate to avoid owning their own power. They can’t stand to live with the choice. To try or not. Having tried, to succeed, or not. To judge what’s worth saving, or risking. To choose to embrace a terrible power, to shape the world. Now, you own what you do with it … and don’t.
What would you do, given that you can? That’s so terrible to some people they cripple themselves, just to be free of the choice and consequences. And they insist you be crippled, too, so they can deny that they chose to be helpless.
This is horrible. At one time a long time ago, people trusted the government to do the right thing. What happened to turn the congress into… whatever that was? This should have made national headlines, and been protested like crazy! How could people have been so complacent? If I were older back then, I would have. Instead, I was playing in the dirt with green plastic army men, and dirt clods. If I only knew what the adults were doing to the world. That just gave tyrants free reign to forbid us our natural (not to be confused with civil) rights as they see fit.
Ah yes the nra’s “War on children”. Such a brilliant, ie ignorant racist, writer with a truly deep, Ie complete lack of, understanding of the oldest defender of constitutional rights in the country. Eddie eagle program is the front lines of this barbaric war on America’s pre pubescents. Teaching children how to murder and torture…… er wait… that’s the firearm safety program for children and didn’t the Nra just donate 500million to harden up schools in poor areas that can’t afford the improvement themselves?
I don’t always agree with the nra’s decisions but I’m signing up every family member who doesnt have a membership this weekend.
An explanation of why the BCSO didn’t act on the 39 complaints. This is sickening.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html
YIkes!!!
Holy corruption Batman!
I had received my NRA branded Visa card from First Nat Bank of Omaha only days ago. I used it this morning to make a donation to the NRA and get my $40 signup credit. After my donations posts, it will be paid off and canceled. I will be sure to let them know why it was canceled.
It was nice of the bank to donate $40 to the NRA though, LMAO.
I will never tire of that photo. or is that new?
“This is how guns became normalized in American life”.
Yep. It all started on April 19th, 1775.
Can we have fair and balanced. Now that more of the truth is known can we have Fox News stage a town hall with Sherrifs Israel and Peterson along with an FBI spokesperson to explain how this shooting was the fault of the NRA. The audience can be 5000 NRA members plus parents from the school who are pissed off but not liberals. Maybe we can have Sherrif David Clarke as a guest to explain the necessity for the “Broward Crouch” as a department policy. Maybe the first question from the audience could start with “Sherrif Israel, when I look at you I feel like I’m looking down the barrel of multiple Glocks held by green uniformed men crouching behind cars…” or “Sherrif Israel, do you and your deputies plan to continue receiving your paychecks from Broward County in light of recent events.” Lets have the former NRA instructor who stopped the Texas church shooting for spice. Maybe he can explain why he violated policy and actually tried to interrupt a shooting of UNARMED PEOPLE.
And yes, Dana Loesch gets to be there as well and she can say whatever she god damn well pleases.
Sadly, because the populace at large is so easily led astray, this deffenitively hurts them. The irony is, that this totally validates what those of us in the “good guy with a gun” camp have long prostelated. You cannot rely kn someone else for your own saftey. This was a trained Police officer, and he said screw it. Just remember, the lefties say we dont need guns as the police will protect you…
Speaking at a press conference, Florida Governor Rick Scott unveiled his plan to prevent another school attack like the one that claimed 17 lives in Parkland, Florida . . .
There’s the problem right there. Spun the goal to “prevent another attack.” I thought the goal was keeping people alive so they can live their lives? As a politicritter, “prevent another attack” is way better fodder than keeping people alive. Not for, you know, solving anything, but that’s not the point here.
Better speech…
“There’s a lot we can do. We’re going to focus on what will help keep people alive. One thing we’ve learned from this is that keeping people — our kids — alive when they’re at school needs regular, ongoing attention. It’s just part of the job. So, these are the first things, not the last things we’re going to do to keep our kids alive in school…
Organize Responding – A lot of kids got out, because a few kids organized guiding them out of there. Some died saving their friends.
We’re going to look at state requirements for the design of schools, to get kids out. We have fire extinguishers and fire drills. I don’ know what the answers are, exactly, but we can start by thinking ahead of time about what those kids did in an instant, that saved lives.
Bad things happen. Whack-jobs shooting up schools is rare, thank god. A little attention on how to get clear and take care of each other makes our kids safer from all sorts of things.
Protecting Schools — It ends when someone shoots back. We’ll look at programs to put guards in schools. Meanwhile, as we saw with students, and teachers most Floridians will step up to protect themselves and their friends, so we’re going to look at letting them protect themselves better.
I don’t have details yet. Yes, some sort of resource officers or similar. BUT as we’ve seen that doesn’t always work, either. I suspect some sort of qualification and tracking requirement if you want to carry your own defensive arms in schools makes sense. Doubtless other things as well. But the point is, we should let the good people do more, rather than stop them from doing what they already can.
Anybody who dies holding a door for his friends to escape, I’m not going to judge what tools we will allow that guy.
Missing The Problem — There’s a lot of noise around reports of this guy, social media postings and the like. Whatever the details, could we have seen this coming? Even had their not been police contact, reports of threats and the rest … the point is to see this kind of thing coming.
I’ve ordered a review of how we do that. We’ll have the details of that review in a couple weeks. This is a crazy-complicated thing. I don’t even know where to start.
Working With Government — Each of these approaches will take legislation. We don’t have all of it written, and we’re not going to try to write it all at once.
This isn’t taking advantage of a crisis to slam something through while people are all wee-wee’d up. We want to make this better, which will be a piece at a time, over time. As we submit each suggestion to the appropriate committees, we’ll put copies of the proposed legislation up on the governor’s web site.
We’re going to suggest a lot of little things, and get each one rolling as soon as its ready. So, monitor that. If you have specific, concrete suggestions, we’re looking at a way to capture those, too. Some of those will fly; some won’t. For example, I know some people are quite clear on “ban assault weapons” or “repeal the 2A.” The point is *exactly* what does that mean, and how are you going to do it. With laws, the devil is always in the details.
The thing is, we have laws banning guns from schools. We know that those laws didn’t keep that whack-job from bringing a gun to shoot up a school. And they did prevent the jROTC marksmanship team — the kids who stepped up and protected their friends — from having access to their guns when the whack-job came along. Now, net, did that law help or harm this time? Does it help or harm in general?
That’s the kind of conversation we need to have, to do better keeping kids in our schools alive, just like the teachers and kids who died for their friends did, about a week ago.
The argument that an armed officer can’t help is disproven by all the unarmed teachers that have died protecting children.
The Broward Co officers all need to be terminated, if they’re lucky grieving parents won’t seek them out… were I a parent who lost a child in the mass killing, I’d be looking for these cowards.
Yeah I don’t care what Immature, uneducated, no life experiance child demanding change when they don’t know squat. Wil they give up their volent video games? no, Will they stop bullying people, no. Will they put thier phone away in class, no. If they are not legal to purchase a firearm or vote, then they don’t have a right to say shit. It’s sad they have to experiance this type of trauma and it’ll affect their lives, but Don’t stand up and take my rights away because of it. The Systems failed, enforce them.
Kaboom coming!
A business exists to provide a service or product in exchange for a fee and nothing more. Any company that would put politics ahead of profit is a poorly managed one by definition and in any case invites other companies to snatch away customers.
These communist sympathizers actually do their competors and the American public a great service by proclaming their hatred for the U.S. Constitution. I hope more like-minded companies do likewise; I have no problem taking my money elsewhere.
TEXAS KILL OLL IF THEM PLESS
Seriously who does Trump think is going to vote for him should he choose to run for reelection.
The left keeps talking about a “gun violence epidemic”, yet the total number of deaths in which guns were used is between 12 and 13000. And they get their panties in a twist because of the “epidemic” of mass killings, which amount to abut 180 people a year for the last decade. Is this really an “epidemic”, especially when it doesn’t even hit the CDC’s top ten causes of deaths list? Let’s look at opioid overdose deaths for an eye-opening comparison. According to the CDC, Opioids—prescription and illicit—are the main driver of drug overdose deaths. Opioids were involved in 42,249 deaths in 2016, and opioid overdose deaths were five times higher in 2016 than 1999. Now THAT is an epidemic. Moreover, gun deaths are soluble, if police agencies, instead of being worried about showing a decrease in crime statistics (typically achieved through underreporting and undercharging) actually put people in jail, the already low numbers would drop even further. And school shootings can be almost entirely eliminated by “hardening” the targets, through secure entries and armed staff, without telling millions of law abiding Americans that they have to give up their firearms.
Would you go in,… too a gym and get a half hour of cardio, three days a week. We all answer that question every day, most of us with a resounding no! There’s only one life 99% of us are ever even gonna have a chance of saving. Buy less ammo and more sneakers.
I looked at this thing months back when it was $149. Decided to go the cheaper route with the Vanguard Espod CX 203AP which is basically a cheaper version of the same thing.
Wish I had gone with the Vortex.
It isn’t about the deaths. It’s about the agency.
/rant
They object, not to someone getting killed, but to anyone knowingly grasping the power to influence their own life. People die in cars, but that’s not what they’re *for*. (And, look! Why do you need a car? Take transit, which we’ll decide what’s available, and where you *need* to go. Apparently, it’s not your life. No agency for you!)
A defensive firearm is so you can have a say what happens to you after all the arguing and angling has failed. A defensive arm is an equalizer – agency in a gizmo, so a child, a tiny woman, someone old, or injured, or slow, can still have a say about what happens to them, when thugs n goblins are around. A defensive firearm is a bet that net, net you’ll do the right thing with that power, only if you need to.
Banning all arms is not a bet, but a declaration that people in general can’t be trusted with that kind of agency. Do you really want to be “protected” by people who think so little of you?
They think you’re stupid, and not worth protecting. They don’t want you having a say, even just to choose to not get killed yourself, right now, even less choosing to have a say.
It’s not about people dying. They hate the agency. They hate the choice, and choosing to have a choice. They don’t want to do what they can, to live. They hate you if you choose to do what you can, because it reminds them of what they did not. And that you are not beholden to them.
“Banning” guns is about people having agency at all. You can tell because they won’t talk about more or fewer dying, who ends up dead, or doing what.
“I think we ought to stop whack-jobs like school shooter guy; one way to do that is allowing better tools to people like the kids who died saving their friends. Another would be keeping whack-job guy from ever getting started.”
“All guns are the same, but how they’re used is not. How about we pay attention to that a little?”
An interesting take. You made a couple of points that I hadn’t considered previously. Thanks.
Meh…the leftard bunch have ramped it up because TRUMP. THIS BS is just a manifestation of Donnie Derangement Syndrome😩😖😧
In a Word Yes
I hope that if I found myself in this sort of situation that I would realize in time what was happening and then act to help. I believe that I would but since I haven’t been in a life and death gun fight before, I can’t say for sure. I hope that I never find myself in a situation where I need to find out, but I carry every day and have some medical supplies with me or in my car in case I do. That’s all I can say.
If I were ever in a position to do so, yes. I wouldn’t want to, because I rather like living, but sometimes needs must if you’re one of the few or perhaps the only one that stands between the looming darkness and the flickering light.
There may come a time when you need to be that hard line behind which nothing dies and before which nothing lives, to be like the tree planted beside the moving waters and shall not be moved lest death or unconsciousness take you.
as a non protective service person that is a personnel choice! When your paycheck derives from the protect and serve statement, either man up or quit your job! its pretty pathetic when you have law officers so afraid that they wait for back up while the killer is locking onto his prey. being a non LEO type entering a school with a deadly weapon could get you killed and or mistaken for the perpetrator! so no I would not go, make it legal for us to carry at school, then in a heartbeat I would make the attempt, might have too clean my shorts, or bleed all over everything, but I could face my self in the morning and or meet my maker with I tried!
It depends on whether my wife and kids are with me or not. If they were, I’m probably not leaving their sides because I’m making sure they’re safe. If they are safe, then I’m going in. Not because I have a hero mentality or any other BS people say. The truth is that I believe in fighting terrorism when you’re confronted with it. I’ve read some of the comments and some are saying “that’s macho Marine BS”. Well, I am a former Marine, so maybe it is macho or maybe I just value freedom more than some others. Either way, I think if you can stop a terrorist by risking you life, then you should. If we all coward in a corner, Hitler would have conquered the globe. Man up or woman up and fight. Otherwise, terrorism wins.