Back in the 1980’s, 7.62×39 ammo was widely available in both the all-lead variety that we see today as well as the mass produced steel core variety. Since the rounds were only used in rifles, while the ammunition fit the definition of “armor piercing” as per the law, the ATF couldn’t touch it — only “armor piercing” handgun ammunition can be banned from sale. But then some damned fool designed the Draco 7.62×39 handgun, and the ATF jumped all over that like a fat kid on a bacon cheeseburger. Steel core 7.62×39 practically vanished overnight, and prices skyrocketed. Now, Black Horse Arsenal‘s new BHAKR54 might to do the same thing to 7.62x54R ammo . . .
This isn’t to say that Black Horse Arsenal is doing anything wrong — the real issue is that the law (as written) makes no sense and does nothing to save lives. But the introduction of a commercially available handgun in 7.62x54R might be the just excuse the ATF needs to stop all imports of steel core ammunition.
Keep in mind that cheap 7.62x54R ammo and Mosin Nagant rifles fuel a lot of new gun owners and you can see where this might become a problem. Ammunition from other sources is available already, but at a higher price point than the spam cans filled with ammo that are found buried across the Motherland and imported into the United States.
[UPDATE: Several commenters point out below that the graphic above is a Photoshop, not a photograph, and this pistol may very well be vaporware. The company’s track record on things like this appears to be not great.]
I want to know who’s going to shoot that damn thing! I’m a big guy and I can’t imagine shooting a 7.62X54R pistol.
This. I’m not a recoil puss, but shooting 54R out of a pistol?? No thanks, Jeff.
It would be a flamethrower. The barrel is not long enough to have as much recoil as you would think. there are mosin pistols, and the recoil was not too bad I’m told.
Aren’t the mosin pistols of a different caliber from the mosin rifles?
I think he’s confusing an Obrez (sawn off Mosin Nagant rifle) and a Nagant revolver here. The Obrez definitely has a lot of recoil.
the pistol uses a different caliber, only the name is roughly the same. its 7.62 nagant and it looks like an uncircumsized casing. supposidly the only true silencable revolver since the casing goes into the barrel as the cylinder goes forward. i picked up a 1934 nagant for around $200 new old stock, very awesome how complicated yet smooth it is and everyone seems to enjoy looking at it
The Nagant pistol is a tiny little thing that shoots not much more than a 22mag round. These things could be shot by a kid, they are dinky things and not nearly the 7.62x54r. They are mearly 7.62 nagant but not even close to the rifle round. Can’t even imagine shooting a 54r in a pistol (nor the reason – you couldn’t hit the side of a barn with the rise)
This would be a mule kickin fireball thrower.
And I want it! Think of this thing as a SBR! Outrageous, over the top, and completely bad ass.
M44 Barrels are already short enough to belch fireballs now. Apparently they used a remarkably slow burning powder in 7.62x54R
You should try my Nagant M91/30, barrel has been cut down to 17″, entire rifle is 36″ long. Talk about something that kicks like a mule and throws a fireball.
>not shooting Obrez pistols for fun
>complaining of recoil of glorious step-daughter of komrade Serge Mosin
>being sober enough to even feel recoil
Fucking capitalist plebs. You need more Vodka!
Better wear double hearing protection…
(putting on the tinfoil) The Obama administration encouraged this gun’s development precisely so they could ban the import of cheap steel core 7.62X54R.
I wouldn’t doubt it. Look at this line on their website:
“Manufacturer of the highest quality assault weapons and accessories”
What ****ing gun manufacturer calls their guns assault weapons?
look at their website itself. They appear to make a stock for SVD/PSL rifles but no way to order one or who sells them. Their photos are a mix of stock images and some shopped photos.
Bingo ! Exactly what I thought. With the sordid revelations on the Intel side, like govt paying RSA to embed back door in code, the ATF secretly paying for this or even owning this company outright is not beyond possibility.
The owner does have dozens of DOJ complaints against him, could be his way to get out of prison for defrauding tons of customers.
“Black Horse Arsenal is the trade name of Confederated Arms, Inc., a female minority owned company.”
Hmm, sounds like your typical gun owners.
FYI – The female/minority designation is specifically called out to highlight their status as a WBE/MBE qualified business (women owned enterprise, Minority owned enterprise). This is very important when it comes to GSA accounts and bidding processes (much more likely to win business with these designations)
They didn’t wait for ‘examples’ to be made to ban 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel. I’m sure 300 Blackout and 30 Remington AR are next.
Great, they made a product nobody will use except to screw over those of us already scrambling for affordable ammunition. Thanks BHA.
ya all i can say is FU SOBS !!! you made something nobody will use and we lose access to cheap ammo
Ugh. Why????
I’ve mentioned it plenty on here before- I own a couple shorties. I’ve got an Arsenal one in 5.56 that can still make AR guys blush at 100 yards. I’ve got a converted Saiga chopped down to a AK-104 clone that groups almost as nicely. I love em. 7.62-39 is a great round for close work, and keeps plenty of stopping power. 5.56 is still pleasant to shoot from a 9″ barrel, and while maybe not as hard hitting, is still plenty accurate.
I can’t imagine 7.62-54 being comfortable, accurate, or even fun out of a SBR. Out of a pistol, it’s a joke.
You want to make an AK pistol that nobody’s doing? Make me a damn Bizon.
Couldn’t agree more.
All you’d get is a very very loud inaccurate firearm.
Even a M44 is enough to scare the shorts off new shooters nearby.
This thing would be like an old 10 gauge we have. It’s not even in the least bit remotely fun to shoot and only serves to prove of tough/idiotic you are to shoot it more than once.
This is why we can’t have nice, or at the very least, cheap things.
Welp, putting in an order for more surplus.
Thanks for nothing, BHA.
Not only will a ban probably happen, but this is a stupid idea for a gun. Sbr AKs already destroy a range visit for anyone around you due to the noise. I’m sorry but at the range I frequent, anyone who whips one of these out will make enemies(so to speak) of anyone else there very quickly. I mentioned sbr earlier because I see that as the only practical reason to buy one, but even then an sbr in 7.62x54r is just a dumb idea in my opinion.
I agree. And since when do liquor store robbers need to practice?
I’m not a fan of saw off rifles. I think they should pay the $200 dollar transfer tax.
Bet the supply of cheap imported ammo drying up would hamper their sales of PSL/Dragunov stocks & rifles, too
Time to go on an ammo buying spree.
Again. Still.
“Manufacturer of the highest quality assault weapons and accessories”
Uh, which credible gun manufacturers refer to their products as “assault weapons”? That’s an anti term.
On their About page:
“About Us
Black Horse Arsenal is the trade name of Confederated Arms, Inc., a female minority owned company. We were founded in 2009 to adapt the Russian Izhmash SVD Dragonov sniper rifle composite stock to the Romanian PSL designated marksman rifle (DMR), and manufacture high quality weapons as a company holding a Type 7 FFL.”
Am I being trolled right now?
“Female minority owned?” What the hell does that mean?
This company is either guilty of epic stupidity or they are in fact a Trojan Horse.
I mean, what a profoundly useless firearm? Even if you like AK pistols for some reason, a 54R pistol is really just stupid no matter how you slice it.
I hate to say it but if you slap a sto k on that thing few guns would beat it for sheer thunder. Maybe like this.
http://www.theakforum.net/forums/18-build-yourself/142134-psl-short-barrel-side-folder-spare-parts-build-video-added-3.html
From the SBA:
http://www.sba.gov/content/minority-owned-businesses
http://www.sba.gov/content/women-owned-businesses
So not only are rifle-caliber pistols retarded, but they also deny me access to cheap ammo? Awesome.
Anybody know if BHA ever dealt with the legal issues they had over screwing over their customers for the BHA AK54 rifles they were supposed to make? I stayed the hell away from them since that popped up.
They still have a ton of complaints on the BBB site.
http://www.bbb.org/oregon/business-reviews/guns-and-gunsmiths/black-horse-arsenal-in-halsey-or-22729730
Trojan Horse Arsenal, IMO.
The ak files have three or four threads lambasting them. Each was successively locked due to BHA editing their own posts retrospectively. I’ll believe they’re producing this gun when I hold one in my own hands. Not that it’s in any way worth having in a practical sense.
Smells like a front company for the ATF.
A) This gun is a blatant fake photoshop
B) This media attenion only serves to further the ability of the owner to commit fraud.
The posting with this fake pistol got ugly enough that the “owner” of the company took it down after it was made clear he’s lying.
At one point he claims to have sold these for months, yet later in the post he commented that it was a photoshop creation.
He blamed a former employee for badmouthing him, which was preventing him from pre-selling these to bankroll his undelivered products. So by his own admission he’s running a ponzi scheme using newly aquired money to pay for the items previously ordered and never delivered.
Before giving this theif any more media attention do some research on them, dozens of DOJ complaints, F rating with the BBB, a proven track record as a lair. Jerry hunt IS the reincarnation of Chet from lancaster arms….
Agreed. I’d suggest an edit questioning the validity and notifying any gullible new readers about BHA. They’ve got…issues.
I added a line.
Also worth noting that aside from a handful of the guns not bought (and pre-paid for MONTHS ahead of delivery after lies and delays including fake tracking numbers ala lancaster) have actually been received by customers.
The 54s he’s trying to push on the site is also a fake photoshop composite, as is the long table full of guns in one of the pics (literally just copied and pasted the same gun over and over). The SHACK he claims is his production facility couldn’t even handle the machinery he posted in the now hidden from view post.
Report him and his facebook page as scammers as that is exactly what he is.
So, who from TTAG is going to call them for a comment on the firearm that nobody asked for?
I called. Nancy from the NSA didn’t answer, but I did get a message informing me their long distance calling has been disconnected.
If it does result in a ban that dries up the supply of 54R, I’m going on a one-man crusade to put them out of business. For however much good that will do.
I’ll join you.
I’d be all-in for that as well
What’s a crusade without a few beheadings?
How is it that 5.56 steel core ammo is not only available but common. Shouldn’t that be banned since there are AR pistols chambered for it?
Its not steel core, its steel capped. look at a cutaway, its still lead.
The M855 round was designed to be capable of penetrating a steel helmet at 600 yards. Regardless of construction, I would think that would qualify as ‘armor piercing’.
It does not, in fact, qualify. My understanding is that it skates through on a technicality.
M855 was actually specifically named as exempt from the armor piercing law
Not any more. The ATF lifted the exemption for 5.56×45mm when they added 5.45×39mm, 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel to the growing list of ‘pistol’ calibers.
WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY THINKING? WHY? People like 54R because its cheap. Nobody wants this damn shorty. We want Bizons, we want Vityaz, we want standard size AKs in 54R. We do NOT want this, and its a pistol, 922R doesn’t apply! Fuck you BHA. you are worse than Olympic Arms.
Since I, like many people, own and shoot a Nagant 7.62x54R I would say that pistol would be a wrist wrecker at the least. Hell the Nagant is a shoulder thumper already!!
I handload for my 54R and it’s not cheap but 180gr SJSP makes a great hog round!!
They make the “Finest Assault Weapons”?? Guess we know what other companies Eric Holder and his wife are owners/part owners in besides and abortion clinic!!
http://www.blackhorsearsenal.com/about.php
Describes themselves as a “Female Minority owned business”
Only government contractors mention that. A quick lookup shows they used an AUSTRALIAN dns registrar which is just weird, and of course, a private registration service, with email hosted on the same box as their website. Not to get all tinfoil hat, but this company smells.
Seems hard to believe, since all the photos on their FB page of people working in their shop is a bunch of OFWGs.
Maybe one of them is married to a 1/16th Native American woman who is the actual business owner.. It’s Oregon after all.
Apparently their parent company makes components for the MRAP? The same vehicle that is brought up time and time again on this site in regard to police militarization… It also looks like their PSL stock may have been intended primarily to supply Iraqi army.
Very weird indeed!
There is of course a very simple solution. Disband the agency who’s existence is an affront to the Constitution its agents are sworn to uphold.
This is not the first 7.62x54R pistol. Ever heard of an Obrez?
do you know of anyone actually manufacturing and selling the “Obrez?” probably not.
it’s a home-made thing.
Obviously he’s legit….
https://justice.oregon.gov/complaints/result.aspx
BHA has taken down all mention of the 54R pistol from their Facebook page after the comments section lit up with angry x54R rifle owners, I would assume.
Hrm, that’s a badly photoshopped image. I’ve been a professional printer and art reproducer for many years and I can spot some bad photoshopping from a mile away. When you look at the rear of the Trunion, where the sling mount goes, the lighting seems to be coming from a completely different direction when compared to the front trunion and it doesnt match the rest of the image at all. So I call bullshit.
I agree, it was one of the first things I noticed, but I noticed more that there is a distinct shadowing around the edges of the receiver where it meets the top cover, front trunnion, and handguard. Certain parts of the image also appear to be pixelated – specifically the front trunnion forward hinge section of the top cover.
Either they don’t have a working product at all, or their working product is too ugly to photograph.
Yeah, I noticed all of that too but I gave them the benefit of the doubt. No questions can be asked on that sling mount though, the lighting is coming from a completely different direction than where it should be.
No matter though.
Wasn’t it an Olympic Arms pistol that choked off the supply of 7.62×39 back in the day? The AK as pistol (Draco) wasn’t around at the time of the ammo ban.
I’m fairly sure you are right. The Draco IS a 7.62×39 pistol, however it only arrived on the market long after the steel core ban was already in effect. Olympic Arms started making a 7.62×39 AR pistol and THAT was the weapon that drew the ATF’s ire.
Anyone who’s ever fired a Mosin M38 or M44 knows damn well that a 7.62×54 pistol isn’t just a fantasy — it’s a nightmare.
Especially to those on either side of you on the firing line.
Do not mess with a man’s Mosin food. Don’t.
They could be calculating this on the idea that all the cheap 7.62x54R surplus ammo is going to dry up soon anyhow.
But like the rest of you, I’d just as soon they wait until the ammo supply does dry up before they start trying to sell these things.
Doesn’t look user friendly… that’s for sure.
Might have been better off trying to create a folding stock carbine with a 16″ to 18″ barrel out of it instead.
People like you and karma whores on reddit are the ones going to get 54r banned. This is just a ploy by BHA to get more idiots to buy their vaporware. The gun is an obvious photoshop. Posting stories about it is whats going to get the ATFs attention. Use you damn heads.
After everything I’ve read about BHA, why the hell would anyone support this company and why would TTAG give then one bit of attention?
TTAG has given them attention because, like most people/businesses in the gun world, TTAG is completely unaware that Black Horse Arsenal is nothing but a large scam operation.
Hey guys, I’m not sure about the pistol but the rifle is the in fact real. The owner showed up my doorstep selling them out of the back of his car. I did buy two. This was last April. The workman ship was good. Have sold one and the owner had no complaints…..works just fine. Minority owned company, his wife owns the parent company. As for the OFWGs working there……..Ya gotta know Halsey Oregon.
Oregon Secretary of State does indeed list complaints so it means it is a business, it does not mean it’s a good business. .
A pistol in that caliber. I have some doubts but it is possible/probable. And yes it will kick unless you put a brake on it (one heck of a brake). Now it does give me an idea……………..I have a Garand with a busted stock maybe shortening the barrel, moving/shortening the gas system……………………….and a bunch of 3006 cal AP. 🙂 Good Grief!
Folks, let me tell you everything you need to know about Black Horse Arsenal and it’s owner, Jerry Hunt.
For all intents and purposes, this company is a scam (mostly a ponzi scheme) and Jerry Hunt is a con man. I don’t mean that figuratively, either. The guy is quite literally a con man, as well as a pathological liar. He’s well-known here in Oregon, and not in a good way either.
BHA’s “shop” is a shack in Halsey, Oregon. I know, because I’ve driven past it. It is run by him and his wife, and there is rarely anyone in the shack. There are no employees (despite his claim of having 20 people on the payroll). A great deal of the photos he posts on Facebook and elsewhere online are photoshops, and he’s been caught red-handed on several occasions trying to pass off photo-shopped images as real weapons. He once famously claimed he had delivered a case of his BHA54’s to the military. Then, someone found the photo he used online to photo-shop the supposed delivery of these rifles to the military. This is typical of Jerry…he knows that even if a few people discover he’s flat-out lying, most won’t.
Also, there is no “parent company” to BHA. Jerry used to run a shell-company called “Confederated Arms, Inc.”, based out of a residential address near the Oregon Coast. He claimed to be affiliated with the Confederated Tribes in Eastern, Oregon. When I called that tribe to confirm, they said they knew of Jerry and were actively trying to get him to stop saying he was affiliated with them (since he wasn’t). “Confederated Arms” was never a legit business. It was a business on paper only. And it is no longer a licensed corporation, even though Jerry still claims it exists and that it’s a real business.
Jerry’s latest scam is saying that a “large defense contractor” is “merging” with BHA. LOL! A typical claim from a pathological liar like Hunt. Jerry Hunt is effectively broke (his house is basically a mobile home), and no “large defense contractor” is interested in his shack in Halsey, Oregon. He created this lie to make it sound like he might actually be running some type of reputable business. Jerry Hunt knows that most people will never bother to actually look beyond the surface, and he uses peoples’ naivety to carry on with his scam. Honestly, it’s amazing he hasn’t been arrested yet. Hunt has stolen tens of thousands of dollars from unsuspecting people. But here too, he knows that most people won’t do anything about it after he rips them off. And thus, he is able to continue his scamming.
Oh, and to-date, he’s still driving around Oregon trying to sell crappy home-made firearms out of the back of his car to unsuspecting FFL’s. There have been numerous reports on this online from these FFL’s.
TTAG…if you want to write about a REAL story, forgot the mythical BHAKR54. Instead, dig into this company and Jerry Hunt. You’ll find a complex web of lies, deceptions, theft on a large scale, corporate shell companies, etc. And no folks…this isn’t “CIA-type” stuff. It’s just a single con-man who to-date hasn’t been caught and put in prison.
Oh, I forgot to add…
Jerry Hunt claims he started Black Horse Arsenal with money he received from a “buyout” of his ownership stake in a large national car rental company. He claimed he received something like $10,000,000 from that investment.
The only problem? That story is a complete fabrication of Jerry Hunt’s warped mind. There was never an ownership stake in any large car rental company. Jerry never had $10,000,000. He’s flat-out piss-poor broke, and has been for many years. He gets a small government check every month, and whatever else he can steal from unsuspecting victims online.
THAT is the type of person you’re dealing with in Jerry Hunt. Someone who would completely invent tales of being a multi-millionaire when in fact he’s so poor, he has virtually no assets to his name.
Seriously TTAG, you should follow-up on BHA. There is a massive, HUGE fraud story here. By even posting about BHA as if it might be a legitimate company, you’ve been hoodwinked. (There’s a reason no one from BHA has returned your calls. Jerry Hunt wants nothing to do with you, as he’s afraid you – a national firearms media outlet – might start asking questions, and might start figuring out that certain things with BHA simply don’t add up.)
Jerry Hunt spends most of his waking hours not making guns or accessories, but rather trying to run his fraud and cover his tracks. He routinely deletes posts on Facebook and bans commentors when they ask, “Where’s the product I ordered and paid for 12 months ago?”. There are many of these posts weekly, but you’ll never see 99% of them because Jerry deletes such posts immediately. And there are rumors that he’s gone so far as to hire a “reputation management” company to help cover all the negative BHA chatter on the Internet. Jerry Hunt knows EXACTLY what he’s doing in carrying out his massive fraud. He’s simply hoping you don’t, and won’t ever ask.
Thanks for that rundown – based on what I found it all checks out. The BHA and Confederated sites are both obviously fakes, with the worst offender being the bad photoshop pics of people supposedly in the BHA manufacturing environment. It’s all quite obviously cobbled together and looks like a four year old did the photoshop work. Some of the guns shown are G3/HK91 clones, but neither the artist nor the con man himself knew enough about the hardware to notice the discrepancies.
Here is the LinkedIn profile of the DoD contractor wonder child himself: http://linkd.in/1y9BhYh
As of this writing, Hunt has over 24 complaints for failure to deliver products lodge against him at the state DoJ office, the most recent being settled in May of this year. Neither the address shown in those complaints nor any other I’ve found connected resemble anything like a manufacturing facility, just an assortment of rather pathetic small residential properties in Halsey and Alsea Oregon, usually with more broken down cars near them than shrubberies.
The only product listed for sale at the BHA site is a stock for an SVD but these are probably what people tried to order with no deliveries. I did not see any complete weapons for sale and the rifles shown are either CGI graphics created by his graphic artist (likely the one listed as admin for his web sites) and/or ripped off photos from other sites. That he connects himself to so many people and reputable companies in the DoD community thru LinkedIn is disturbing, but at least he posts a picture so you know what he looks like.
I don’t suspect any Obama linked gun-grabbing conspiracy here, but if the ATF relied upon an utterly fictional gun upon which to base the suspension of 7n6 5.49×39 ammunition imports, somebody needs to call bullshit in court. The law might be stupid but until it is changed the ATF has an obligation to enforce it correctly, not in an arbitrary and capricious manner.
EDIT – misquoted the type of ammo banned based on a vaporware gun. But still inexcusable how it could happen, if in fact it was banned based on a non-existent gun.
Nice revisionist history here. Any personal affiliation with Olympic Arms? Because it was that company that got steel-core 7.62×39 banned from importation in 1994. They produced a 7.62×39 pistol despite the fact that Century Arms (who later imported the Draco pistol well after Olympic had already ruined the supply of steel core 7.62×39 for everyone) offered to pay them NOT to produce that pistol in an effort to keep M43 steel core legal for importation. Olympic Arms ruined it for everyone- not the Draco pistol.
Amen!
Ok so im a new gun owner, democrat and yes Obama supporter ( on most issues ). Im someone in the middle. Not a gun activist. Im a moderate. But then I read crap like this, and think “what the hell are these guys reading? What the hell are they doing? If the owner of Black Horse is that shady of a lying petty crook, then how does his company even get its BS mentioned on this website?” What are you guys, the National Enquirer of the gun world? Obviously who ever wrote that article did not do enough homework and created a lot of controversy. But he also lost a potential reader because he wasted his time with BS.
They built the prototype. They don’t need to go that far for the ATF ban to go into effect.
Francisco Martinez… welcome to responsible firearms ownership and enjoyment, sincerely. But let’s get one thing strait. Modern Democrats and especially Barack Obama supporters, are not moderate! I have a colleague at work who claims he is moderate and openly a big Lib on everything, while at the same time, throwing around “tin foil”, “way out there” and “extreme” comments when describing conservatives. You’ve taken a big step and I hope your persecution from other dems/libs is minimal. Again, welcome, and I look forward to seeing you at the range.
the reason we all know about the shoe dropping is it just happened with 5.45… so whats their excuse for releasing this and screwing up the ammo imports? Can’t be they didn’t know…
I reload my mosin ammo but this is a jerk move… releasing this product… imo.
Don’t EVER send Black Horse Arsenal (JERRY HUNT) a red cent he is a THIEF and will steal your money and send you no product. He has owed me an over $1,000 product for over two years now and it’s clear that he has no intention of ever being anything but a liar and a thief.
Patrick,
We’ve been talking for quite some time about how we planned to resolve this and you agreed to take a BHAK54 as reimbursement. Several months ago I informed you we had a BHAK54 available, which was at one of our distributors that we were having sent back and when it arrived we’d turn it right back around to you.
We did exactly as we said we would once it was in our hands and the following is a copy of the message you were sent on Face Book as a PM and as an email that went out to you as well, due to the fact that you can’t be reached by phone.
Patrick,
Your BHAK54 arrived Saturday the 21st at the Post Office in Pelham and an attempt was made to deliver it yesterday, but your FFL was closed. A 2nd attempt may be made to deliver it tomorrow and if not your FFL will need to go to the Post Office and pick it up, otherwise it will be sent back to us.
Can you please call Terry from Collectors Firearms & Militaria at 603 635-9699 and make arrangements to pick up the gun. It was shipped USPS Priority Mail using tracking number VJ274625021US, which you can see at https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction!input.action.
Thank you!
Jerry
You, like all the other people who have received refund checks, gotten reversals by their banks on their credit cards, or agreed on taking product to satisfy the original order, never seem to go back into the original post where they claim we stole their money and report that it’s been satisfied.
As a result huge amounts of misinformation have been published about Black Horse Arsenal the last couple years and my rule has been to never engage the trolls or their sock puppets in rebuttal to tell the true facts, as I have nothing to gain from a nasty flame war sparked and fanned by dialog.
In a recent conversation with a customer who’s very familiar with the abuse we’ve taken, it was suggested I look up what an “Urban Legend” is, as he believed it applied.
Wikipedia says:
An urban legend, urban myth, urban tale, or contemporary legend, is a form of modern folklore consisting of stories that may or may not have been believed by their tellers to be true, and often possess horror implications that are believable to their audience. Urban legends are sometimes repeated in news stories and, in recent years, distributed by e-mail or social media.
In our case its social media from user names like “Truth” and “Fact Checker”, who say thing like, “Jerry used to run a shell-company called “Confederated Arms, Inc.”, “Confederated Arms” was never a legit business. It was a business on paper only”. And “Jerry claims he started Black Horse Arsenal with money he received from a “buyout” of his ownership stake in a large national car rental company”.
There’s no evidence anywhere that supports these claims as it is total fabrication, but many gullible folks believe what they read on the Internet. We did have some unfortunate issues when our website first went live in September of 2012 and we got buried with orders we weren’t prepared for.
Up to this point my rule has been to never engage the trolls and sock puppets like “Truth” and “Fact Checker” in rebuttal to tell the true facts, as I have nothing to gain from a nasty flame war sparked and fanned by dialog, but maybe it’s time I did!
LOL! Oh please, Mr. Hunt. Spare us the heartbreak story of how poor, little ole’ you have been victimized by bullies on the Internet. Your problem isn’t that “…huge amounts of misinformation have been published about Black Horse Arsenal the last couple years…”. No, your problem is that huge amounts of FACTUAL information has been published about you and your “business”, Black Horse Arsenal. And some of it is still out there on the Internet, just waiting to be read by anyone who wants to learn the real scoop on your shenanigans.
I.e., anyone who goes to the “SVDs and RomAK IIIs” section of The AK Files forum can read the stickied, 35-page thread about you and your business misadventures, which unfortunately for you involve more than just “…some unfortunate issues when our website first went live.” For example:
1. There is an extensive record of the pictures you photoshopped to create false impressions about your business. My favorite has to be the one where you actually photoshopped people into your machine shop, making it look busier than it was. There is irrefutable proof that you did in fact do this. Of course, I also liked the photoshops where you attempted to falsely show Russian soldiers were using your rifles, and where you falsely implied you had delivered rifles to the U.S. Dept. of Defense. (That picture was again just posted on The AK Files six days ago) Again, none of this is made-up by your detractors, Mr. Hunt. The proof of all this is located on The AK Files.
2. When you posted as Gorby on The AK Files, you did in fact tell user “armored223” that you started BHA with a windfall received from selling a stake in a car dealership. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if you can’t remember all the whoppers you’ve told. Luckily, again, many of them are detailed on The AK Files.
3. You stiffed Atlantic Firearms (one of the most reputable online FFL’s in the country) for a large chunk of money. Atlantic had a very hard time getting ahold of you, and when they did, you sandbagged them by saying “the rifles will be sent soon” one too many times. To the best of my knowledge they never received all the rifles you owed them, and you never paid them back the money they advanced you. If that is incorrect, here is your opportunity to tell the world! But be advised…if you say you did pay them back in full and/or otherwise made them whole, I’m going to check with Atlantic myself. And you will again likely be caught in another of your many lies. BTW, all of THIS is also detailed on The AK Files.
4. To this day your LinkedIn profile says that in 2009, Black Horse Arsenal once had 40 employees “putting out 125 weapons per shift per day.” That’s interesting, because none of your corporate filings from that period (or after) link to any location that could possibly produce 125 firearms/day. Moreover, nobody seems to know what these firearms are that you allegedly produced, or who you sold them too. And you certainly haven’t been willing to talk. Tell us what type of firearm you produced in quantities of 125+ per day, and who you sold them to. Or is this yet another instance where you’ll say, “Sorry, that is secret squirrel stuff. I can’t tell you.”
5. You did in fact erase many, many comments on your Facebook page from people asking ‘Where is my money or product?” You also flatly told people that you would not issue refunds for undelivered prepaid products because, and this is a direct quote from you, “It is not in my best interest to do so at this time.” Yup, after extremely long delays where people were perfectly justified to request a refund, you actually declined to refund monies because it wasn’t in YOUR best interest. LOL! How arrogant can a person be?
6. You drove around the State of Oregon, visiting FFL’s and selling BHA rifles out of the trunk of your car at the same time you were telling online customers (who had already paid) that you didn’t have a rifle for them. On the AK Files, an FFL on the Oregon Coast confirmed the time and place you visited him, thus preempting another of your attempts to claim this never happened. And wouldn’t ya know it…THIS is also still detailed on the Internet.
I could go on and on and on with all the comical whoppers you’ve told over the years Jerry, and if you’d like to address each of those many lies in detail, just let me know. In fact, I agree 100% with you…”maybe it’s time you did!” I bet you thought this would all blow over, huh? You probably thought everyone forgot about all your past lies, didn’t you? Nope. I have a long, LONG list of whoppers you’ve told, and again, if you agree to address each and every one of those, I will be happy to post more here, disclosing more of your tricks and blatant dishonesty.
Oh, and as for you complaining that people haven’t reported you finally made them whole…what did you expect??? Many of those people actually had to contact law enforcement because they literally could not reach you, and/or you were unresponsive to requests for refunds. Now you want them to thank you or something for…giving them their own money back after you “borrowed” it for in some cases YEARS? LOL! I see your arrogance still defines you, Mr. Hunt.
Your turn, Jerry Hunt. Go ahead and start by answering all of the above points…what you call “urban legends” and “fabrications” that just so happen to be 100% true. Once you answer those, I’ll post about 20 more things you’ve said and/or done that seriously call into question your integrity, honesty and character.
This “troll” is highly anticipating your response, if you even give one. My bet is that you’ll either obfuscate and not respond to the above matters with anything resembling a direct and conclusive response, or you’ll just disappear again, knowing that not everyone is so easily conned by your forked tongue. Sorry Jerry, but this is the Internet age. It’s not gonna be so easy for you to erase old sins and lies.
Folks, please note that when “MythBuster” (a.k.a. Jerry Hunt, the owner of Black Horse Arsenal, or “BHA”) chimed in above and pretended as if all was well with BHA, and when he stated that “maybe it’s time he did” address his critics, he didn’t really mean any of it. Jerry Hunt is as disingenuous and credulous as they come. Or as one large, well-known Internet gun dealer plainly stated, “Jerry Hunt is a con artist plain and simple.”
Any honest, rational business owner who was actually innocent of the 6 charges I set forth above would have promptly come back here and posted a detailed, proof-filled rebuttal to those allegations. Nothing would be left to ponder. But Jerry Hunt and Black Horse Arsenal don’t seem too interested in responding. Imagine that.
You see, Jerry would like for you to believe that he isn’t responding simply because he’s “above the fray.” He wants you to think he’s better than the people he calls “trolls”, and he wants everyone to believe that he doesn’t have to respond to detailed allegations about his dishonesty, because in his warped world those accurate allegations have no basis in fact.
But in truth, Jerry Hunt won’t respond for two very simple reasons: Hunt is fully aware those allegations are true, and Hunt is fully aware that he’s a pathological liar. Jerry Hunt well knows that he has ripped-off and conned multiple individuals and companies. And he also knows this isn’t one of those cases where people merely have “a different perspective on what happened.” No, on numerous occasions Jerry Hunt has been caught red-handed trying to fluff his way out of trouble. Just like with his hilariously inept “poor me” post above.
I suspect he’s trying to salvage his unsalvageable reputation. After all, when you Google “Black Horse Arsenal”, 7 of the top 10 Google hits are – you guessed it – complaints about Black Horse Arsenal and Jerry Hunt. Folks, that is what’s commonly known as “a clue”.
So Jerry, I’m terribly sorry that your attempt to once again con people seems to have backfired on you. This is the trouble with people like you, Jerry: you’re not nearly as smart or clever as you’d like to think.
P.S. Out of curiosity I did contact Atlantic Firearms. They confirmed what I wrote in my post above. You sent them some guns, but many had rusty barrels or flat-out wouldn’t work. Atlantic wound up taking a huge loss because of your blatant dishonesty, shoddy workmanship and general lack of integrity. And yet you have the chutzpah to show up on a forum like this, whining about how you’ve been wronged? What the hell is wrong with you???
If you dont want it to be banned stop advertising that it is the possibility exists.
[IMG]http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv183/ajh2727/1MG42MuzzleLSView.jpg[/IMG]
Oh boy, here we go folks. Fasten your seat belts.
This is an ol’ Jerry Hunt trick…when he is called out, he starts to write mountains of text that obfuscate, go off on unrelated tangents that nobody cares about, and in general try to explain away why all his obvious lies and deception aren’t REALLY lies and deception.
And like a very well-practiced liar, his explanations are always a little TOO detailed, if you know what I mean (pathological liars often don’t tell short, small lies…they often include a great and almost suspicious amount of detail to their lies. They hope this “throws the scent” off their lies, knowing that most people will be more inclined to believe them if they include what would otherwise be a bizarre amount of detail).
But go on Jerry…I’ll go get my hip waders on, because I have a feeling an entire river of BS is about to run out of your mouth and flood this thread.
P.S. I see you’ve already played the “I’m such a good Christian” card. That’s a little early for you Jerry! You usually wait until your third or forth frothing before you bring Jesus into it. You must be nervous, huh?
My above post was a reply to Jerry Hunt. He posted something (where of course he promised to explain everything), talked about what a great Christian he is (because scoundrels like Hunt frequently invoke their supposed religiosity in order to seem credible), then he quickly erased all of it. So I wound up replying to a post that now no longer exist.
Typical Jerry. That’s another thing for which he’s well-known: going back and editing or erasing his own posts. In fact he got kicked off The AK Files forum for doing exactly that.
Jerry promised to address all my earlier points. But in typical Jerry fashion, his promises don’t mean much of anything.