Before I begin, I’d like to ask everyone to take a deep breath and keep in mind that some of the posts I author are intended to convey lessons that I have learned over the last year or so of my admittedly brief tenure as a member of the fellowship of the gun. Over that period, I have purchased a number of different guns and learned a lot about what I like and what I don’t. Whether you agree with me or not, please remember that as I’m discussing what works for me personally, there is no right or wrong answer. What works for me may or may not work for you. That said, let the freak out begin . . .
I’ll start with a little terminology. I’m going to refer to Glocks and similar guns (XDM, S&W M&P, etc) as “striker fired” guns. Now technically, many automatic pistols are striker fired including my Beretta and Sig Sauers, in that the external hammer hits a striker rod, which ultimately is the thing that hits the primer, igniting the round. But, for the sake of this post, I’ll refer to these as hammer fired guns and treat them differently for reasons that will become clear in a bit.
Quite simply, I don’t like striker fired guns for concealed carry. In a pure striker fired system such as Glock’s there is no external hammer and no means to de-cock. Most of the Glocks that I have seen are single action meaning that the gun is cocked by racking the slide and the only way to de-cock is to pull the trigger.
If you choose to carry concealed and you want the gun to be ready to fire when you pull the trigger (without having to rack the slide), you have no choice but to carry a cocked pistol in your holster (the same applies to 1911’s and any Single Action Only style guns, but we’re focusing on Glocks for the moment). Now, I know that Glock has developed one heck of a safety system to prevent a gun from accidentally going off, but the idea of carrying a cocked weapon that close to my body makes me mighty uncomfortable. It’s a personal thing that may not bother you, but it bothers me.
One alternative operating system is the one found on my Beretta and Sig Sauer pistols – the Double Action/Single Action (DA/SA). With a DA/SA pistol, I can chamber a round and then use a de-cocking lever to safely lower the hammer. Now, if I have to draw my pistol, the first shot I take has a heavier double action trigger pull – in the neighborhood of 10 pounds. As with a revolver, you really have to want to pull that trigger to make the gun go bang.
After the first round though, the pistol is in single action mode like a Glock and only a 4.4 pound trigger pull separates me from my next shot. The advantage here: I’ll be drawing from a holster and bringing my weapon to bear with that heavier trigger. For subsequent shots, my pistol would be pointed at the threat and I’ll have an easier trigger pull to further engage the bad guy.
Let’s contrast that with one of Glock’s Gen 4 pistols, the 9 mm Glock 17. Each and every trigger pull has about 5.5 pounts of pull weight which for me is too light on the initial draw and more than 25% heavier than my Sig for follow-up shots.
The second issue I have with the Glock is that grip angle. I remember walking into a gun store in Houston for the first time all set to buy my Glock. The salesman suggested a side by side comparison with the Springfield Armory XD. He proposed a simple test – he put a Glock in my hands and asked me to point at the threat. The problem I found is that the Glock has a very pronounced curve on the backstrap and my natural aiming point was high of the target. I had to consciously lower the muzzle of the pistol to engage my prospective assailant.
The XD, by comparison, pointed naturally straight for me. Now, if you shoot your Glock every day, you are automatically going to compensate for this higher aim point. On the other hand, if you own and use a variety of guns like I do, you are going to have to remember to adjust your aim point depending on whether you are using your Glock or one of your other guns.
I have several other guns in my collection including Sig Sauer P226, p229, P238, P239, H&K USP Tactical, Springfield Armory XDM, and a Springfield Armory 1911. Every single one of these guns points dead on for me – other than the Glock which points high. This means that if I owned a Glock, it wouldd be the one gun that I would have to compensate for when I shoot it. Not a good idea.
I encourage any prospective Glock owner to perform the aim test that my gun salesman suggested to me. If the Glock grip works for you and you don’t have the concerns that I did with the whole cocked pistol on your hip thing, buy it and be happy. You won’t be disappointed. On the other hand, if you have the same experience I did, you may want to re-think your purchase decision.
DA/SA will still go off in your pants if you pull the trigger. Just sayin’
Yes, but the idea is that it is going to take a lot more to pull that DA than it would the striker fire design. Not saying striker fired is unsafe to carry. As long as the operator is competent and exhibits good trigger discipline this is a non-issue. Some people however, feel more comfortable with a DA/SA knowing that an accidental discharge is much less likely.
I carry a Kel-Tec 380 in my pocket. Of course there is not a round in the chamber. As a police officer until 2006 I carried an H&K P7 (squeeze cocker) for 13 years. There is no safer firearm to carry in the world. Unfortunately they never caught on and are no longer in production. A few years ago many of the European models came on the market but have the mag release in the butt of the gun. When I retired I purchased one and carried it concealed until the pocket guns came along.
“Never caught on?” Didn’t the Bundeswehr buy a bunch of P7s in the 80s and 90s, and don’t a significant number of big police organizations in Germany still issue the P7?
I wonder sometimes whether the USP and subsequent polymer-framed designs from H&K are that much more popular than the P7, or whether they’re just less expensive to manufacture and give a higher profit margin. And I’m not knocking the polymer HKs–I am especially impressed by the new striker-fired VP9, and am wondering whether we’re going to see one in .40–just observing that HK is in business to make money, and I keep hearing from many many sources how much less it costs to make polymer frames.
I understand what the author is saying but if safety is the main concern, then I can make a case for a Glock 42 being safer than his gun:
Carry a Glock 42 but do not chamber a round………..this gun is far safer to carry in this mode than is his gun where all that stands between himself and an AD is a 10 lb trigger pull. Pull the trigger all you want and a Glock 42 with no round chambered, will never fire, thus making it safer than a DA/SA. Yes, you would have to chamber a round before using it but it’s still safer. You could also do the same to his gun and they would both be equally safe.
How about the ultimate in safety: a S&W Bodyguard with no round in the chamber AND the safety engaged. This method of carry would require three actions to fire it: 1) release the safety, 2) rack it, 3) pull the trigger. You could do the same other guns, some of which have external hammers.
It all boils down to what level of safety you are happy with and how available your gun is when needed.
If you have a proper holster, there is no way a chambered pistol is going to discharge. This is coming from a guy carrying a Glock 23 for many years and never having a ND. The safety is between your ears.
Taking time to rack the slide may just be what gets you shot. Something the author didn’t bring up was the chance of a nd when, in the heat of the moment, you shove said striker fired pistol into the holster and get some of your shirt/t-shirt bunched up between the trigger and holster. Call me old school, but I like and want a safety. I carry a S&W 380 bodyguard, a double action gun with an external safety, in hot weather, and either a Colt New Agent with xs sights in 9mm or a Kimber ultra-carry in 45 cal in cooler weather. Draw, click safety off, fire. No worries about those pesky nd’s
Dan speaks of a ND when holstering the weapon. This is absurd. There is never any reason to rush holstering a weapon and if someone does so abruptly and gets clothing caught than that that is poor safety skills.
You are an Idiot,
The author was talking about carrying with a round chambered
Why dont you stretch it farther and say……
Well my Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special is even safer than your Brick Glock, I keep the rounds in the trunk, and and it will never go off in my pocket…..
Okay, I’m new to guns. I appreciate the author’s points here as I weigh the pros and cons of my soon-to-be side arm. But this counter seems confusing. Are you literally just proposing that an unloaded ccw is safer than a loaded ccw? That just seems like a no-brainer, but what’s the point of carrying an unloaded ccw? Why is that even a point worth making?
For what it’s worth, I’m just looking for a proper backcountry gun, a 10 mm. I’ve narrowed my choices down to a Glock 20, Sig Sauer P220, or S&W 1006/1076. I’m definitely partial to the single-action, but I appreciate the insights offered by the author as to the safety advantages of the DA/SA. I just know that I dislike the DA in general, and I’ve fired a couple of handguns that seems to go back and forth between SA/DA willynilly.
Yes…..and I’m sure under the immense stress of someone shooting at you, you would have no problem drawing, popping off safety, racking the slide, and whatever the third thing was that I can’t see while typing. That’s just stupid. I mean….extremely stupid. “Let’s put as many actions as possible between ability to use and the lack there of, of my defensive weapon.” I can see you sitting around thinking about ” how can I make my gun more useless.” I used to carry a 38 super 1911 cocked and locked( round chambered, hammer back, safety on) but that on singular action made me nervous. Counting on my ability to swipe that safety with my hands shaking and adrenaline pumping….nah. I started carrying my fnp 40 da/sa, round chambered, gun has no safety only decocker, hammer down. All I have to do is draw and pull the trigger. There is no possible earthly way that something is gonna get up In my holster or my carry bag, get in the trigger card just right, and apply enough force to pull that trigger in double action mode. There….is….no….way. In single it’s under spring pressure…it just has to slip past the seat. Double….your having to pull the spring from uncompressed and compress it then release it. So not just 7 lbs of force, but a sustained 7lbs of force. That aside, if you are, anyone is, that scared to carry a gun with a round chambered, with the hammer down or safety on, you really ought not be carrying a gun. If you are that unsure of your ability to not accidently swipe off your safety and apply 7lbs of force to your trigger unintentionally……shit.
the Berettass have externa; safeties that gets engaged when the de-cock is used. so if you manually set the hammer down , it can techincolly go off because it still would have that potential energy to fire. unlike the safe glock.19genforifetho
Why would you manually lower the hammer on a Beretta? The safety/decocker does this while rotating a firing pin thingy out of the way. If the hammer has a complete failure of sorts and falls without a trigger pull there is a firing pin block that only raises with the trigger pull.
The fool football player who shot himself at the night club wished his gun had a DA trigger….and a thumb safety for that matter. When he tried to retrieve his Glock from his pants (he had no holster….first mistake) he pulled the trigger.
Results….injury and a jail sentence. The point is that people will do stupid things…..a thumb safety and DA trigger will save injury and lives. Luckily, nobody except the fool was injured in the club.
Right on. Guns fire bullets. Correct training is key to any system. I had two Glocks before my Sig. I prefer having a hammer because I carry in the 4 o’clock position and other various reasons. With a Glock it’s hard to reholster with or without stress conditions BECAUSE you can’t see the trigger in the 4 o’clock. Clothes or holster parts can get jammed in the trigger guard and can engage the trigger. And this has happened, even to veteran LEO’s as well as experienced gun owners. When I reholster with my Sig I keep my thumb firmly on the decocked hammer, so if something pushes on the trigger I’ll feel resistance against my thumb and I’ll be able to fix the problem. I’ve tested this with a safety checked weapon. I pulled the trigger as hard as I could while thumbing the hammer. The hammer simply will not be forced back because of the leverage of the systems between the hammer and trigger group. I also use a holster that completely retains the gun, covering the trigger, made of Kydex on one side and leather on the other. I loved my Glock .45’s. I am safer with a Sig simply because of the hammer (used according to its safety features). The more safety you have, like one gun safety rule overlapping the other, the less likely an accident may happen. Include stress and life or death conditions in the equation and that’s information that can save your life. Lots of LEO’s are moving away from the Glock despite its many advantages and low cost. I don’t think anybody beats Glock on the way they finish the metal on the slide. I still love them. But I carry a Sig. Any DA/SA hammer system would share that level of safety assurance. So pick your brand, and gear up the best you can. If you disagree then you might want to research yourself. Any system can be used safely. It’s when multiple things go wrong that you have problems. You really do not want your gun to discharge when you reholster following a threat encounter. It will hurt your ass and the district attorney will think you’re a twit, which will not help you in criminal and civil court.
Glocks are responsible for more Ads than any other make by a large margin. As some smarty always points out, if ( a big if) rigid gun safety rules are employed it should matter mostly. But those smarts aren’t living in the real world. People are fallible. they make mistakes and a pistol is a very deadly thing to make an error with. People do draw with their finger on the trigger and they AD and injure of kill themselves and others every year. They do forget the round in the chamber. DA/SA with a de-cocker pistols have a much better safety record. what is your life and those of those around you worth. Less than a few hundred bucks? If so, you’re not thinking right.
Don’t take offense, but your comments are likely made without much research. I don’t believe there is any factual information that ” DA/SA with a de-cocker pistols have a much better safety record.”. There are fewer than 1,000 people in the US injured in negligent discharge incidents. Population of 300+ million … that’s pretty insignificant. My personal opinion is that if you can’t bother to develop a habit and train to keep your finger out of the trigger guard, you should probably rethink carrying a gun. In a stressful situation, when your muscles contract and you clinch your fist, that double action pull is not going to protect you from a negligent discharge. Most gun accidents result from ignorance and carelessness. Not training to keep your finger off the trigger demonstrates both.
You make an interesting point. For those of us who are 60+ yrs old we grew up with revolvers and often the few auto were for officers and State Troopers (even they often had revolvers). The methods of training have changed rather vastly. It didn’t take a genius (even I figured out) to keep my finger aligned with the slide rather than touching the edge of the trigger-guard. Yet there stands an issue that cannot be GI-proof and that is the Glock (and some others) were not adopted in consideration due to a manual safety. This does NOT make them inherently unsafe however. But when a serious dump of adrenaline goings into a person dexterity goes out the window. As I mentioned before a friend of mine had a NG due to the tab on a Sam Brown belt holster. Realistically this resulted in his embarrassment and a hole in the floor but he was also experienced enough to know that when it gets REAL the shooter is tunnel-visioned and looking and thinking many things at a time – – or TRYING to. There are too many REAL World situations for this to be a black or white issue. A guy with a gun drawn may NOT be totally safe but in plain cloths while uniforms arrive on scene, a child may approach, there are many reasons why non-visual holstering may be appropriate.
Rather than look at the Glock per se’ I would think the thumb-break holster is a thing of the past.
On another subject I remember in the late 1970’s they used to something called a Practical Pistol Course (PPC) and the speed in which some guys could reload a revolver was astonishing. With no exaggeration, I had seen it done as fast as a mag-reload (albeit only six rds were involved).
I agree with DanLishka:
I can think of no other firearm that is so prone to accidental discharges that the phenomenon has had it’s own term applied to it “Glock Leg” (as in shooting yourself in the leg with your Glock).
I also take exception to the author stating that “you have no choice but to carry a cocked pistol in your holster (the same applies to 1911′s and any Single Action Only style guns,”
Nonsense. The hammer can be safely lowered just like a revolver by keeping your thumb firmly on the hammer while gently squeezing the trigger. Of course this takes concentration and clean thumbs and if you are sqeamish, you can insert another digit between hammer and frame.
Then if you are that concerned about safety, carry a S&W 380 Bodyguard with NO round in the chamber AND the safety “ON”. This method requires three actions to fire it (move safety to “off”, rack it and then pull the trigger, which by the way is a safe DA with a hefty trigger pull).
If you can’t draw without your finger in the trigger guard, perhaps you should wait to carry until you have had proper training and have mastered such a basic skill.
Nope, not at all. Anecdotal evidence is not admissible Striker fired weapons are as safe as the people who carry them. If any of this article points to anything at all it is to show the person who should NOT concealed carry. If you do not practice to the point that every single action can be made with robotic precision, perceive danger, access danger, draw and index, target, shoot/don’t shoot, scan area, return to holster. The decision to shoot is the only thing in between draw and re-holster that requires thought, then back to robotic moves. Practice is not picking the gun up from the table and firing a few magazines and back to the bag. It should be in a safe area drawing and indexing and re-holstering, perhaps using a laser bullet to key in on accuracy. You have to train like it is really happening. Practicing without ammo in your gun is more important than range time. You can draw an empty gun safely and dry fire safely. Striker fired guns are definitely the way to go for self defense. Practice over and over. Remember, it’s not the tool, it’s the mechanic. Be the mechanic and use whatever tool you want, as long as it was designed for the job. I have Steyrs, Glocks, Kimbers, S&W revolvers all capable of pupil shots at 15 yards double, single or striker. Pointing on target instantly comes with very little practice. I suggest shooting the gun you have the most issue with first. Take a Glock to the range and you will see what I am saying. Great guns, but not the only tool for the job.
I received my first Glock from an LEO in my apartment building in 1988 – I still have it and it’s in near new condition (even has the original “black parts”. He gave it to me because he was holstering his weapon and the thumb-break (a heavy one on a duty belt at that time) dropped into the trigger guard and he had a negligent discharge. He was so angry, he marched up to my place and simply said “here, be careful, it’s like a 1911 with no safety”! Now I KNEW about that issue, yet the point remains. Glock has also produced a “Glock18-type” with external safety” for a single production run for a country (I don’t know that much more) but they bought a large lot and Glock agreed to use the toggle for an Model 18 to make a safety instead of an auto. There are quite a few reasons why Barretta and Sig won the US Military contract. IF Glock had put that external manual safety on their weapon we may be using Glocks today in the Service(s).
My friend DID have a significant point. He was a gun-safe individual but a Glock does break at 5.5 lbs (and in the 1980’s I believe it was even 4.5lbs) and old time Sam Brown holster DOES have a heavy retention strap. But anything (keys coins, etc) caught in the trigger guard makes Glocks a “holster only weapon” and that holster should be of a very specific design…..I own Glocks; I like them, but they are certainly NOT for everyone.
@johngrey – dude…wtf? it was not a “Glock-18”, and it wasn’t a “production run”, and they didn’t use the Glock-18 select fire switch as an ad hoc safety. Where do you get all this nonsense from? The Austrian Army wasn’t used to having a sidearm without a manual safety switch, and they requested a single Glock 17 be modified with one – below the slide, not on it – for testing. That’s it. Do some reading and get facts instead of just making stuff up; http://www.forgottenweapons.com/thumb-safety-glock/
Oh, and sorry… but there’s no way in hell I believe this foolish story that a cop just gave his gun to you after shooting himself with it. Can we please keep the fantastical exaggerations to a minimum and stay on topic? Thanks.
I am a Kentucky raised boy (Don’t laugh) now living in the city of Gastonia, NC That being said, I have been around firearms my whole like, grew up with them like children today grow up with bicycles and X boxes. The point is I owned, operated, cleaned, and was responsible for a 22 caliber Remington rifle and a 20 gauge Winchester shotgun at the age of 13. These guns were my responsibility and were kept by me in my own room in a safe manner for home protection and for use in hunting. I was taught gun safety not as a course or something that had to be learned to complete a test but as a way of life because you get sloppy with a firearm and you or someone else gets dead, period. I have owned many different firearms in my lifetime as I am now 50 years old and I have never liked a pistol that does not have a hammer so you can safely de-cock the weapon without having to dry fire it. Nor any other pistol made in the same manner even if they make a tool to supposedly uncock the gun safely. I understand as much as any other man or woman maybe even more so with what I have seen over the years the kind of violence that is not only out in the streets but in our homes and coming into our businesses to rob us. I have seen the lack of respect not for the police force but the lack of respect for each an every person including themselves so ,yes, anytime a police officer is called upon to the scene of a crime where the alleged perpetrator may still be present and armed and dangerous is is a very serious situation where danger of gunplay is highly likely at any point. I have only one thing to say about this and you can take it or leave it since this is America and we all have a right to our own decisions but if I am the one holding the power to take another persons life then I just don’t think it should be so easy, I firmly believe that a trained officer has plenty of time to pull the slide back if he doesn’t feel comfortable carrying his weapon with one in the pipe and the hammer down but I believe that extra second is not what saves lives as people want to portray it in the media but give the officer the extra second to make sure that deadly force is needed and anyone who disagrees is just plain trigger happy. Not that will not be the most popular statement but it is very true. As I said before take it or leave it but unless you have a background in firearm use and safety I don’t feel as if your opinion makes any difference.
Geez Mikey, Mikey, are you saying you have your finger on the trigger before you are ready to shoot and/or after there is no longer a threat? YIKES I am sure glad that I never had you for a partner!
Thank you for pointing out why the hammer makes it safer when holstering and to keep one’s thumb on the hammer for safety.
People who have accidents with the glock pistol do so by pulling the trigger until the gun goes off, it is illogical to assume that a stronger trigger is safer, experience shows that if someone discharges the gun by mistake they will do so whether the pull is 5.5 lbs, 8 lbs or a full double action pull. Nobody pulls 5 pounds then stops short of 8, if they pull it that far they are pulling the trigger, the malfunction is in their head and they do not think the gun is loaded, they will pull a double action pull or a 5.5 lb pull just the same.
youtube: Las Vegas Negligent Discharge. i dont know what poundage that trigger was at. but she surely wanted some action. that concludes your overall comment. the gun will discharge when you want it to
You’re invoking logic but then appear to check any logic at the door before entering this comment board.
It defies logic to assert that the 11 or 12 pound first shot trigger pull on a double action is not inherently more safe from the hazard of an accidental/unintended discharge – as compared with a 3.5 or 5.5 first shot pull on a striker fired (like Glock).
In summary: the lighter the trigger pull = the greater the chance of unintended discharge.
The heavy first shot pull on hammer fired pistols are no impediment and a non-issue. They’re lightning quick to lock back for reduced trigger pull accuracy, if needed. The added safety for IWB carry is a definite confidence inspiring design.
Startle response in the trigger finger of an avg human is 25lbs.
Either way, heavy or reasonable, you have to keep your finger off the trigger.
The alternative is a loud noise and a hole you didn’t intend to make.
Don’t dummy proof your gun, it makes it harder to use, ESPECIALLY with that critical first shot.
Train, or don’t carry.
Well, I confess, your point is not without merit (ref: don’t dummy proof your gun) if that 25 lb. panic/reflex reaction you mention, of the trigger finger, is legit. But there’s another school of thought: Don’t make your gun more dangerous to your own self. Most metal frame Sigs have a nice heavy 11 or 12 lb first shot. And even this can be avoided by simply thumbing back the hammer for a nice, crisp, clean break and a first shot, first kill. This heavy first trigger inspires confidence in IWB carry modes.
I have carried a Glock 22 since Missouri started CW in 2004. I have several instructor certifications including Glock Weapon As A Correctional officer I shot my Glock for years in Departmental shooting matches. But on 6-12-2011 while teaching my has an AD my finger was along the slide when the shot was fired catch striking me in my lower leg. When my was weapon was inspected after I got out of the hospital it was found to have a very light Detent Spring tension. Can you explain why it happened?
How about a 100 pound trigger? That’d be even safer!
The staple-gun 10+ pound first shot on DA/SA firearms most certainly is an impediment for me, on the first shot. On the second shot, having to reposition my index finger to use the trigger in SA mode and keep from pulling right by putting too much finger on the trigger introduces additional delays. I would not carry a DA/SA pistol for my own defense for love nor money.
DA/SA is the answer to a question no one asked. It’s intended to make it more difficult for ill-trained Third World conscripts to shoot themselves in the foot while playing drunkenly with their pistols in the barracks, for organizations that think they can buy a hardware solution to a software problem. Don’t put your finger on the trigger until your sights are on the target and you’re ready to fire. Violate this rule and you have no one to blame but yourself when the pistol does what it was designed to do. If you are plagued by an obsessive fear that you will do just that, that’s a message from your subconscious, saying TRAIN HARDER.
To be truthful I don’t care for striker-fired pistols either. Most all of them are lowest-common-denominator plastic shooting appliances made out of recycled plastic baby bottles, with the ergonomics of a caulking gun and spongy, squishy triggers to match their soulless, mass-produced, cheap injection-molded plastic looks. The closest thing to an acceptable striker-fired trigger I’ve found yet is the Walther PPQ–a full-size pistol the size of a Glock 17 with the magazine capacity of a compact or subcompact, depending on whether you want it in 9mm (15 rounds) or .40 (only 11). I might as well carry my LW Commander, which at least is a .45.
Answer: buy a gun with a safety and also DO NOT chamber a round. Carry a gun in that manner and it can never go off accidentally because three steps are necessary for that to happen: 1) undo safety, 2) rack slide, 3) pull trigger. And if those series of events do occur and the gun does discharge, it’s because the owner intended for it to discharge……..
You’ll likely never have any chance to actually use the pistol in that manner. You should just carry a rock.
I know an officer, here in Illinois, who while putting his Glock up after his shift. From what I was told he put his pistol up on a shelf in a closet. This time he dropped the gun as he put it up and he reached for it. Accidently he grabbed the gun and it fired going through a wall and killing his girl friends son. Illinois State Police did an exhaustive investigation and concluded it was an accident that couldn’t be repeated.
I must also say I have 7 Glocks and love them all, I’m just aware that shit does happen and if I’m going to be handling my guns for any reason they need to be empty.
Wait a minute. Didn’t New York pay for heavy triggers to reduce the # of AD’s?
I disagree. I think it is logical to say that increased poundage will decrease the likelihood of an accidental discharge, but it’s not black-and-white since it does depend on the intensity of that trigger finger (i.e. the emotional state of the shooter). But a lot of the counterpoints in this thread seem needlessly defensive and dismissive and seem to be missing an important part of the author’s point: a DA pistol can be de-cocked, while a SA has no such luxury. This feature could come in handy in a couple of situations.
Now, I personally am looking for a backwoods 10mm (I live in and do a fair amount of hiking in black bear and cougar country), and a DA has little to offer me other than the aforementioned safety features. Nor do I like the feel of DA. But outside of target practice, my goal is to never have to use that 10mm, because that would mean that a large predator is giving me trouble. And in the latter case, I suspect I’d prefer the SA Glock to a DA/SA Sig or S&W. But I welcome any polite insights as I weigh my options on the best 10mm for my needs.
If you’re going to claim that a 10lb pull and a 1.25″ travel is equivalent to a 4lb pull and a 0.25″ travel, then I’m going to claim that it doesn’t matter which vehicle you were driving in a head-on collision between a Ford Fiesta and a Ford Expedition.
When you insert the magazine and release the slide on a Glock the gun is in double action not single.
Not exactly. Yes, Glocks do 2 functions when the trigger is pushed, but a Glock is already 3/4 “cocked” when racked, so it really doesnt fit into any DA or SA group…they have their own designation.
Here are the action descriptors…
If you have the sig 236 cocked, loaded and the safety on, the gun cannot fire if the trigger is pulled. Am I missing something here? Thanks
Author is wrong. Striker fired guns are NOT single action. A trigger pull on a striker fired gun, moves the striker reward a bit more before putting the gun in battery.
Eric, so will a revolver, but it’s not cocked…
The ergonomic argument is a valid one– large Glocks aren’t the most intuitive for people used to 1911/Sig/HK/etc pistols. I almost always put a fair bit of pressure on the trigger guard with my weak hand index finger (on virtually any pistol) so I don’t experience this problem, and generally speaking I prefer the compact Glocks that fit very well in my larger than average hands.
The striker argument is a different story. Who cares how heavy the first pull is when drawing? If you don’t want a bang, keep Mr. Finger off the bang switch. Never had a problem with that, be it a Glock or a 1911 race gun with a ~3 lb trigger. In fact, you could argue that a different weight on the first pull is as much a safety and (more so) accuracy than anything else.
I’ve said as much before, but: Glocks are socket wrenches, custom 1911s are jewelry. Both are purchased and used as such.
1911’s are just jewelry? Really? I’ve been shooting one for years in USPSA competition. I have a Harrison trigger group that is set just under 3 pounds. It is the best trigger I have ever felt in a gun with the exception of some custom open guns that cost over 4 grand. The 1911 is very practical and reliable when it’s set up right. My gun doesn’t just look good..it runs flawlessly.
Using a custom 1911 for competitions is kind of like wearing a nice watch when you go on a date. You use what fits the situation. A glock is a common duty weapon carried by many LEOs (although some would prefer to carry something else).
When you go to work at a physically demanding job you put on your rugged can-take-a-beating watch. Just like if you work a job where you carry a gun, you’re not going to be carrying a fancy custom 1911 with a ~3lb. trigger. Most agencies won’t allow modifications to your firearm, and larger agencies will usually issue a firearm (usually glock or other striker-fired guns).
So calling a glock a “socket wrench” and a custom 1911 a piece of “Jewelry” is pretty accurate when you think about where you will be using it. Just keep your 1911 at the range and I wont complain. I think that’s great you are good at what you do and enjoy it.
*In response to all those that have never been involved in a real life shooting event: Talk to some local LEOs about their experience in unholstering, firing, and reholstering their weapon during that event and gain some quality perspective. Putting your thumb on the back of a decocked hammer is completely unrealistic in a real shooting and is just plain bad practice if you ask me. Now if you have to actually use your firearm you’ll be pushing your thumb more than twice as hard on a cocked hammer.
[Practice for real, not for practice]
I took my first training at Gunsite Ravin in Paldin Arizona in 1985. Jeff Cooper was my instructor. I used a Colt 1911 single action pistol. Safety was the first day and a half. One could not inter his range unless they were holstered with one round in the chamber cocked and locked. I practiced and practiced getting a good grip. Hand on the back strap, right thumb on the safety, index finger straight down the slide. As I went up to my target, it was target acquisition. Thumb lifted the safety and rested on top of it. At the same time my right index finger went on the trigger. Front site and pull(slow mash to the rear) double tap. Firearm slowly down to the ready with my thumb putting the safety on while my index finger went straight on the slide. Practice practice practice. Back into the holster with safety on and finger off the trigger. I learned the weaver stance. If I were to go up against myself and the other me had a double action first shot I know without a doubt my single action 45 bullet would hit the same other me first. I not saying the other me’s bullet wouldn’t hit me but it would be slower. Never put your finger on the trigger unless your willing to destroy what’s on the other end. There is rarely ever an accidental discharge. All guns are always loaded. Even the one you just checked in front of me that you handed to me. Point in a safe direction and check the firearm and make it safe again. Do not put your finger on the trigger. They are accidental stupid charges.
Put your firearm in a safe place where children cannot handle. Locked safe. Practice
There IS a source for stats on NG’s or accidental shootings. You got to go to the NCIC Fed and look up “dismissed cases”/”prosecuted cases” of “NON-voluntary shootings”. On the right portion of the screen is a asterisk (*) that you put into the bottom portion of the screen as *.* (remember it’s UNIX not DOS so all \ have to be /) text from all cases will become ready (that have gone to Court) and you submit into “Query” -“type of firearm involved” and you’ll also have to have a comma delimiter and a “DIR \W”\P to stop at each screen. At the end of each year you should have a listing from the time the query was designed (I THINK it’s 1992 to Present). For reaching back further: I don’t think you can do that with NCIC but you can write the DoJ for a compilation in chart form from year in question to present and they often won’t charge if you use letterhead.
I can understand the troubles with Glock ergonomy, but the issue with a negligent discharge over the striker-firing mechanism seems to me kind of a phobia. I’d never heard of a negligent discharge with a Glock (and I think that 70 % of people around me are using 26, 19 or 17) in which the shooter hadn’t had his finger pressing the trigger. In stressing sitution, there is no heavy trigger that can’t be overcome by involontary muscular crispation… so counting on external safeties and heavy double-action trigger is a rather dangerous bet, since discipline will ever beat mechanism.
“never heard of a negligent discharge with a Glock … in which the shooter hadn’t had his finger pressing the trigger.”
Here’s one. You’re right, something must touch the trigger. In this case a deteriorated holster.
I appreciate this post.
Concern that something like this could happen was my primary reason for choosing XD over Glock.
I feel like the XD is a cruch. I’ve never fired one so this is speculative, but how do you holster the weapon without depressing on the back strap safety? Ultimately isn’t it 6s?
This is why you inspect your gear regularly. And technically, that was an ‘accidental discharge’.
But still, the other replier is correct. With an XD, you put your thumb on the back of the slide while holstering and it engages the grip safety, making the gun inopperable.
I carry an XD sub-compact 9mm, XDS and a Glock 30 depending on my attire.
There is no such thing as an “accidental discharge”. The shooter was negligent by not checking the condition of his gear. It was preventable. It was just another “ND”.
In fact putting your thumb on the back of the slide makes it operable, not “inoperable.”
I have worked extensively with the 1911, the Beretta 9mm and the Glock 22. And years ago, I was against the striker was well. Having moved into firearms instruction and working with some of the most experienced and talented personnel I could ever dream of being blessed with – I am now done kissing their backsides – I have learned from experience as well as from my peers.
1. I agree, I have never heard of a negligent discharge with the Glock either – never. No finger on trigger, no round fired.
2. First round effects on target mean a quicker end of the conflict. For professional gun-fighters, a lesser poundage for the initial pull can make you the one with the faster and better aimed round down range in the conflict and make you the victor when it counts. Also note, concerning the high natural aim point, MANY shooters anticipate discharge and push the barrel toward the ground at times – negating even a high natural aim point. I have found more shooters have trouble with anticipation causing low shots than high shots with the hand gun.
3. Lastly, but most important; I learned the following specifically from working on the range as an instructor, with fellow instructors who have shooters and in analyzing and developing curriculum for shooters. Holstering is the LAST most important step with your firearm. Do NOT holster unless you are completely safe from the threat. Once you are safe, there is nothing precluding you from watching your weapon into the holster and you ALWAYS watch your weapon into the holster – that is what professionals do. This last action keeps old leather holsters – and most anything else that would become an excuse for an unsafe situation – from you safely holstering your hand gun. Many times, in training, we work the command, “Safe?” The answer is either “Safe” – which allows you to watch your hand gun into your holster – or “NO!” which means you need to keep your weapon out in order to possibly cover someone, and as such, not holster your weapon. Remember for the safety of your friends and family, there is no excuse for a negligent discharge, so take the time to professionally watch your hand gun into your holster. If those you fire with cannot take that to heart, then they don’t care about each other or you; and you are shooting with the wrong crowd.
I think an even better solution for the average concealed carry person is that when you are done, engage the safety. No “old holster snag” will undo a safety, the likes of which is found on a 380 Bodyguard or similar gun and, to have an AD would require the “leather snag” to undo both the safety AND pull the trigger, something virtually impossible to happen when using this method of securing a gun. And if you want to secure a gun from the ABSOLUTE IMPOSSIBLE happening then eject a round (empty chamber) AND engage the safety.
That “warning” site is stupid.
Use a stupid holster like that, win stupid prizes. If you don’t have a holster that covers the trigger completely, then you are an idiot. That was a Negligent Discharge, plain and simple.
There are also several documented instances of the drawstring slide on a windbreaker becoming intangled in the triggerguard and causing ads, usually when holstering.
youtube: Chief of Police shoots himself in leg in gunstore
That is physically impossible if you carry with NO round in the chamber and/or engage a safety. If you do both (no round chambered and safety engaged) it cannot happen. That’s why I like guns with a safety.
A good example would be, go to you tube and search for DEA agent discharges Glock in school demo. While teaching a gun safety class, shoots himself in the foot with a Glock. I have also had one blow up in my hand, requiring medical attention. Once was a Glock owner, never felt comfortable to me but as the earlier post stated, a matter of opinion. When I pull the trigger in a bad situation, I intend to do harm to the bad guy, not myself. That is why I carry a SIG only now. Over 23 years shooting guns, owned many brands and owned a few different SIG’s, never once has any of them had a problem. Just making a factual statement.
Jake the guy pulls the trigger. It’s customary for Federal agencies to release mainspring tension when finished with a weapon and this is why it’s a bad idea. He’s given a Glock with the mag in, sends it home than clearly pulls the trigger.
Do a simple search. There are ALOT if neg discharges involving Glocks. There are also alot that involve other firearms that have similar trigger systems so that people do not feel they need to use an external safety. Anything can get caught in the trigger guard and cause a discharge. It happens alot. An external safety that prevents the trigger from moving is the only way to keep negligent discharges to a minimum. Train train train with a safety and you will never have an issue with it.
The grip angle is probably not an issue if a Glock is your main or only weapon. For me, I have trouble transitioning to Sig’s and HK’s [I own one of both in addition to my G19] from a Glock for the opposite reason. I pick up one of these and naturally hold low. So I guess it’s what you’ve learned with. Also, I think that having a Glock as my only handgun for so long taught me to treat every pistol more carefully given that there’s no external cue (save a very slender loaded chamber indicator) that it’s ready to go. When picking one up, I always assume a Glock is loaded until I’ve checked it twice. Perhaps I wouldn’t be so careful if I’d had a manual safety to check or a hammer-down indicating the gun was not in a firing condition.
But to each his own. You can’t go wrong with any of the choices in your collection – or a Glock – as long as you can shoot them comfortably.
One last point I will make in defense of the Glock – once you learn the grip angle, it becomes easy to transition to other Glocks in different calibers. Also, most Glocks can be had new in the $500-600 range. Buying the same collection of Sigs or HK would get really expensive really quickly. Plus, I don’t remember Sig or HK making a 10mm.
The grip angle is probably not an issue if a Glock is your main or only weapon. For me, I have trouble transitioning to Sig’s and HK’s [I now own one of both in addition to my G19] from a Glock for the opposite reason. I pick up one of these and naturally hold low. So I guess it’s what you’ve learned with. Also, I think that having a Glock as my only handgun for so long taught me to treat every pistol more carefully given that there’s no external cue (save a very slender loaded chamber indicator) that it’s ready to go. When picking one up, I always assume a Glock is loaded until I’ve checked it twice. Perhaps I wouldn’t be so careful if I’d had a manual safety to check or a hammer-down indicating the gun was not in a firing condition.
But to each his own. You can’t go wrong with any of the choices in your collection – or a Glock – as long as you can shoot them comfortably.
One last point I will make in defense of the Glock – once you learn the grip angle, it becomes easy to transition to other Glocks in different calibers. Also, most Glocks can be had new in the $500-600 range. Buying the same collection of Sigs or HK would get really expensive really quickly as most are $750+. Plus, I don’t remember Sig or HK making a 10mm.
Reading this article I am a bit confused. I’m seeing to points in this article:
1. I don’t like striker fired pistols because you have to carry a cocked pistol.
2. I don’t like Glocks because of the grip.
The Glock grip is a valid complaint. I’ve handled XDms and I do like the grip better, but have yet to buy one.
As for your first point. It seems that you would rather carry decocked that cocked-n-locked or do you not carry in condition 1? Also it seems that no matter how many safeties are present (1911 safety, grip safety, etc) you would still prefer not to carry in condition 1 or only decocked?
No, I have no problem carrying my Sigs or Beretta with a round in the chamber but decocked. The longer trigger pull for the first shot is an additional safety of sorts- and on a DAO revolver it is the only safety. Yes, we can all talk about keeping fingers off the trigger, but look what happened to Tex whatshisname who managed to shoot himself drawing from a Serpa holster. Yes, he made a mistake, but its possible for any of us to do the same.
Glocks are double action not single action .
With any gun, the penalty of an error is so high that it is difficult to fault anyone for taking any extra precaution necessary. Everyone likes to believe they have been trained and it won’t happen to them. We all experience that lapse in attention. When we are on the highway, we can’t remember the cars we just passed or the cars that passed us. We are continually getting distracted and then refocusing our attention.
It’s refreshing to see that even Mr. Barrett understands that distractions could come or something he didn’t think of could happen and take any extra precaution to avoid the EXTREME penalties of making a mistake.
Good for you!!
Tex had his finger on the trigger, that’s why it went off. How do others draw from a similar style holster using a similar gun and not shoot themselves? Probably because they weren’t idiots with their finger on the trigger? No, obviously it’s the gun’s problem….obviously.
Hi Jim. Finally found your post on not liking striker fired guns like the Glock 42. My comment would be that you omitted the safe way to carry a Glock for casual CCW people: no round racked. In this manner, no amount of trigger pull will fire it until a round is chambered. I know that for you this negates this form of carry because then in your mind the gun is not in the “ready” mode that you either need or require it to be in. In that we are in agreement but for the thousands of potential Glock buyers or current owners who read your post, I feel you should have said that leaving it unracked IS a safe method of preventing 100% of AD’s that might occur while holstering or drawing it. You could then have gone on to say that the downside is that the weapon will require a rack and trigger pull before being able to use it. In that manner, the potential buyer or current owner can make up his/her mind if they want to do this but at least they will have been presented wit this as an option.
“the posts I author are intended to convey lessons that I have learned over the last year or so of my admittedly brief tenure as a member of the fellowship of the gun”
give it another couple of years…put at least 50.000 rounds down range, maybe try a shooting competition or two and your opinion will change. One year into it you don’t even know what you don’t know yet.
Are you sure it needs to be 50.000? What about 50.001? Will that extra one-thousandth of a round make a difference? How do you measure in thousandth’s of a round anyways, is that something you can only do with those new .9mm weapons? INQUIRING MINDS MUST KNOW!
No I’d say around 50k is a good starting point…It doesn’t have to be a 9mm but I’d say that it would be easier to accomplish with a 9mm as apposed to say a 45 acp as 9mm is a lot cheaper to reload.
Right over your head. Might be because I to am a smartarse, but I got it.
No it wasn’t. I knew exactly what he was talking about with the 9mm reference. I read the other posts on this site also.
No offense my obviously non-American friend, but you still missed the joke in my post. 🙂
@Totenglocke, my impression here is that your joke wasn’t actually funny and we choose to respond as if you were serious. The point is, according to Brandon, that the more the author shoots, the more likely he’ll change is mind about Glocks. Not really much room for humor there, maybe pick your battles more carefully in the future.
Given that ~80% of first rounds fired are misses, a heavier initial trigger pull might not be the most prudent way to go.
But, to each is own.
So true, hence my comments further up as well…
Wow! I’m amazed by some of the ridiculous arguments in this thread. “Accidental discharge” is a laughable term, negligence and ignorance are the reasons firearms of any type go off unintentionally despite how many safety mechanisms they have. The key is to keep your grubby little fingers off the trigger unless you intend to put holes in whatever you are aiming at. As for having a heavier trigger pull being a safety mechanism I must completely disagree and this is solely my opinion. If I am in a life or death situation where I must present my sidearm from a holster I want my first round out of the chamber to be as accurate as possible, it may very well be the most important shot of my life. Not many who own a semi auto handgun train for accuracy on the single action trigger function. The majority myself included fire most of our rounds in the double action mode where the trigger pull is lighter making your shots as accurate as you are. So in my mind that heavier trigger pull may very well be hindering your personal safety. As for a glock or any other gun going off while presenting it to a holster. First off you need a suitable holster for the firearm you carry. Second and most important if you are carrying any gun with a chambered round on your person you should be cautious no matter what handgun you choose. Point is be mindful with your guns and negligence and ignorance won’t happen. KEEP you FINGER OFF the TRIGGER. Remember people be smart you represent a lot responsible firearms owners. Don’t make us all look stupid.
The main problem I have with Striker fired guns is that they discourage dry firing practice. Inorder to dry fire with a Glock (or other similar Striker fired guns) you need to rack the slide each time you pull the trigger. If you are using snap caps (which you should) you need to keep reloading the magazine with the snap caps. This a major hassle. As opposed to a DA/SA firearm with which you can simply keep pulling the trigger for DA or pull back the hammer for SA. For me it is much easier to keep my practice up (dry firing) with a DA/SA so I practice more. I have both striker and hammer fired DA/SA’s and I prefer the DA/SA’s for that reason.
You do not need to use snap caps to dry fire a glock, according to the glock manual. It advises that you can dry fire repeatedly without damage.
Indeed, you need to dry fire it to even strip the thing, if doing so would damage the gun, they would’ve included a snap cap for dissassembly, and the gun would be a whole lot less popular
You do not need to rack the slide compleltely back to reset the trigger. A slight push check will do it with out ejecting the snap caps.
I would recommend building the tap-rack-bang habit. I carry a weapon as a defensive solution. Last thing you need is training to take over when you hear a click sp you just keep pulling on a round that will never fire.
How long do you have to clear a jam? The rest of you life.
It’s also important to remember that Glocks and other striker-fired pistols aren’t FULLY cocked when they are “cocked”. Part of the trigger travel is to finish fully cocking the striker. Ruger SR’s and Springfield XD’s actually display this to the user visually.
Glocks and Ruger striker pistols ARE NOT cocked. For all practical purposes they are Double Action Only but non resetting unless a NY#8 type trigger spring is used. When you pull the trigger you physically pull the striker back same as a hammer gun. The striker is held back by the trigger bar just enough to engage the firing pin block.
XD, M&P are cocked/single action only. As is my new HK VP 9. Not sure about the FN striker gun but I think it’s single action only. The Walther/S&W 99 are available in single and double with the option to decock.
Glock wanted a gimmick so the didn’t call it DAO. And kinda shot themselves in the foot.
Personally I think the HK USP and HK45 have the best set up with the safety/decocker but there is no difference between a Glock and any other DAO except trigger weight. And you can always get a heavier trigger.
Please learn the operation and mechanics before publishing dribble like this.
“Glock wanted a gimmick so the didn’t call it DAO. And kinda shot themselves in the foot.”
A prophetic choice of words there BillyJoeJimBob!
First off – I can appreciate most of your concerns and applaud you for discussing your point of view. However, it is not accurate to say that a Glock is a “cocked pistol on your hip.”
One of the things I really like about the Glock is that, unlike the XD, it is not really cocked with a round chambered. The trigger bar is in contact with the striker when the firearm is at rest and for as much as you pull the trigger rearward, you are also pulling the striker back (cocking it if you will). Yes, the striker is slightly pulled back when the firearm is at rest, but most of the “cocking” happens by pulling the trigger. In this way it is quite similar to double action – if the trigger was not pulled to “cock” the gun all the way, even if the trigger bar broke out of the way while the gun was at rest, the striker was not in its pulled back and “cocked” position. An XD, on the other (pointing) hand, is fully cocked while it is at rest and pulling the trigger releases the fully cocked striker.
If (notice the “if,” cause its a big if) the part of the striker which sticks down and interacts with the action of the XD where to ever break off, the gun would fire since that “foot” is also needed for the “firing pin/striker” safety to work. So, not only do you have a fully cocked firearm at rest, if that part breaks, the gun goes bang since no XD safety will be able to stop it. With the Glock, even if that “foot” breaks, the “firing pin/striker” safety is a completely separate part which will still be able to stop the striker.
Just something to think about. I know my hypothetical is out there and will likely never happen to any XD or Glock. I am just trying to make the point that the Glock is cocked as you pull the trigger while the XD sits there cocked.
He is correct…
that was a good explanation. Thank you.
Jim, I think your choices are absolutely wrong — for me. But for you, your choices are absolutely right.
The gun you carry has to instill confidence in it’s safety, accuracy and reliability. If it doesn’t, you will never be able to use it well. There are many manufacturers making many different guns so that each of us can carry a handgun with confidence.
It isn’t necessary to pull the slide completely back to reset the trigger. A quarter rack will reset the trigger without ejecting your snap caps.
Ralph – This was the whole point of this post. Way too many people show up with the “buy a Glock” mentality. I’m not saying that there is anything wrong with Glocks – if there were, then they would not be the supremely popular pistols that they are. I’m just saying that my first two guns were XDM striker fired guns and both have either been sold or are up for sale now because I’m just more comfortable with the DA/SA system. All I intended to do was to provide some of my albeit limited experience to other potentially new gun owners so that they fully consider their choices and don’t end up taking a bath if they buy the wrong gun to start with.
So, your first two guns were XD(M) striker fired pistols, and they’re both on their way out the door because you figured out you were more comfortable with DA/SA…
Of course you’re entitled to your opinions, but that seems like a “lack of research before purchase” problem. If you bought an XD(M) (or two!) without realizing that you would be “carrying a cocked weapon that close to [your] body,” then you didn’t do enough reading beforehand. That’s not a fault of gun design, that’s a lack of forethought.
My first handgun was my XD(M) that’s now my EDC weapon, and I purchased it knowing full well how it operated in comparison to other brands, because I spent a good couple months, at least, researching different calibers/makes/styles before finally settling on the XD(M). Granted I don’t put that much work into every gun I buy; I was simply comparing my first to your first(s).
Fair observation, but I did not buy my first gun with the thought of carrying it every day. Absent the carry issue, I has no problem with the XDM. I initially stayed away from the Sig Sauers due to the cost, but now that I know more, I don’t mind it. The main reason that I sold the XDMs is that I was not shooting them. My Beretta and Sigs got all the use. Since I wanted to buy more guns, it seemed No reason to keep things around that I don’t use.
You can do all the research you want, even try rental guns, but there is no substitute for owning a gun to really figure out your likes and dislikes. Fortunately, I have the means to purchase different options and settle on what ultimately works for me. I’d be willing to bet that if you bought a Beretta 92 and used it for a few weeks, you might have second thoughts on your XDM. Or you might not. Only way to really tell is to live with it for a time (kind of like a spouse).
The whole point of my post was to challenge the ‘conventional wisdom’ I hear all the time at the range and some guns stores. Salesman seem to push Glocks like they are the second coming or something and I wished to share my view that the alternatives are worth considering.
As an FYI, I overheard one Salesman commenting on the grip safety of the XDM as a disadvantage compared to the Glock. He said that there was a possibility that you could get an incomplete grip, fail to activate the grip safety, and have the gun not function. I don’t supose that has ever happened to you, but I guess anything is possible.
Heh, for what it’s worth, I didn’t buy my XD(M) planning on it being my EDC weapon either. As a matter of fact, I distinctly remember thinking, “I’m not likely to carry this, so I prefer the larger grip to the smaller.” I didn’t have my permit yet, and getting it was not yet on my radar. If I had known then what I know now, I’d have bought the compact version with the shorter grip. It would eliminate easily 90% of the problems I have with printing.
As far as the “grip safety problem, I suppose I can see the theory there. However, I truly do think that it’s more of an “accepted knowledge” thing that is used by people to justify their purchase (or sale) of a non-grip-safety weapon, as opposed to a legitimate problem that is experienced by a reasonable number of people.
YEP!! There is nothing quite like owning a gun to figure out what you like and don’t like, with what you are comfortable and uncomfortable!!
Buying it makes you commit to it, like to a woman.
After you commit to it, you then see all the flaws; like the ones I see in my wife.
Buyers remorse kicks in and then you know full well what you can live with and what you can not.
Don’t tell my wife what I said! She has a gun!!
Just realize that even your own preferences are going to change the more you fire and the more you come to know how a hand gun best works for you.
When you speak of holsters for yourself, it comes across as though you are shooting on the range and drawing to hit a target – which is fine.
Many others are drawing from a concealed holster against a simulated opponent, which brings with it a different perspective. Even more, drawing from a concealed holster against a real opponent who is trying to kill you first.
With the above, do not forget one of the biggest draws to a striker is the lack of hammer to get caught on something on the way out of the concealed holster, which also slows down the time your first round goes down range against an actual opponent. These shooters, carry everything in the condition one and a safety is a step that might be the one that gets them killed.
You will hear of shooters protecting the hammer when holstering hammered hand guns, while shooters firing with strikers will protect the trigger area when holstering. But, as you have aptly pointed out, what works for one, does not work for all, as not everyone is performing the same task.
my G27 is a great carry gun, wouldn’t give it up for anything.
FYI: the SW 99 and its counterpart from Walther is DA/SA. It has a decocker and is striker fired.
This is precisely why I carry one and in DA mode.
I’m surprised nobody mentioned this yet. A Glock striker is only partially cocked (about 1/3, IIRC), the rest happens during the trigger pull.
This makes a Glock more of a double action than single action.
A Springfield XD, on the other hand is fully cocked, so it’s practically a single action pistol.
Don’t know about M&P, don’t own one.
that is exactly what i was thinking the whole time reading the comments up until yours. this persons argument against the glock striker system is invalid since as you mentioned the gun is not cocked until you pull the trigger. when you rack a round into the chamber of a glock, you only set the trigger, not cock it the gun.
This was actually mentioned above…
So you’re saying that pulling the trigger on a glock activates the fireing mechanism rather or not the slide has been racked? The trigger both cocks and releases the hammer or striker? If it doesn’t It’s single action. I have no experience with a glock, and don’t plan to as I don’t like pistols without an exposed hammer. I like to have more control and the ability to decock. And as far as accuracy is concerned. In a close quarters scenario DA isn’t going to throw your aim off enough to cause a problem. If the threat is further away, cocking the hammer for single action would take the same amount of time as disengaging the safety. Thus you have a faster response in getting off the first shot in a critical close quarters situation.
Glock armorer here. The article is incorrect that it cocked like a single action. I will refer to firing pin safety part 9 and firing pin safety spring part 10. The firing pin rests against this with no forward pressure. Remove tour slide and press on this. When you pull the trigger you are pulling the firing pin back against spring tension and simultaneously the trigger assembly slides into position to depress the #9. I refer to firing pin release as a snap release. Nothing is hitting the firing pin. It is being pulled back to the release point. The most important part os the connector. This controls your trigger pull by default is 5.5 lbs. You can go lower to 3lb or higher with a NY trigger. Double Action requires a hammer to pull back then fall. Single action the hammer is already back waiting to fall. The Glock does not have a hammer.
Remove your slide and underneath pull the firing pin back with your thumb and release. The pin should not protrude in the slide to even strike the round. Repeat this time while depressing the round firing pin safety. You will see the pin come forward. The pin would need to be too long and the pin safety disengaged to have a slam fire. Either modifications or improper reassembly could possibly create a situation. Look at Glock drop testing from towers and helicopters. You cant drop it high enough to get a discharge.
Triiger safety broken would still require the poundage to pull the firing pin back to create the release point.
Something fishy or someone avoiding embarrassment. Their mind must not realized an inadvertent action.
The striker in a glock is not put into play when the slide is racked. Only during trigger pull is it pushed back and released to strike the primer.
I think there is something insane about the so-called “safety” on a glock. If the same action required to fire the gun is the same action to take it off safe, then it’s not really a safety.
But if you don’t want a safety, and apparently many people don’t, then there you go. Just don’t say that the glock has a safety.
Agreed! The glock safety on the trigger is analogius to putting a vehicles’s brake on top of the accelerator.
But a Glock can be made really safe but then harder to use when needed: no cartridge racked into the chamber means no amount of inadvertent trigger pull can discharge it. But I do agree, a real safety is great to have as it’s an added level of protection. That’s what I like about the SW 380 Bodyguard: no external hammer to snag, DAO operation so each pull feels the same and a real safety.
I carry a glock with one in the chamber. Learn your gun and become proficient. If you want to eliminate any possibility of a negligent discharge, don’t carry.
You are exactly right, Skyler. I don’t know why Glock owners refuse to acknowledge that very obvious fact. My striker-fired Ruger SR9 is a Glock with a manual safety. A real safety – not a “safe-action” marketing gimmick!
3 safetys actually.
1. Firing pin safety
2. Trigger safety
3. YOU safety
Peolle can not wrap their head around the Glock concept. Traditional safetys either block the hammer from contacting the firing pin or prevent the hammer from coming back. A DA where the hammer is a few mm away with no safety, if dropped hard enough could technically breach the gap.
I always tell people to play with a Glock slide off the frame and you will then understand Glock. You will understand why it is perfect for law enforcement.
Whats the difference between a DA revolver and a DA semi-auto? Someone added an idiot switch.
Start competing. Then tell me how you feel about glocks.
It’s funny when new shooters show up for the first time with a da/sa pistol. At the end of every stage the R.O. starts calling out his shots and he has an alpha and a mike on every first target.
Fast forward to the next time they come to shoot and they bring a Glock usually or some other striker fired pistol but most of the time a Glock.
I’ve shoot pistols in completion since the 90s and have no problems with my DA/SAs.
well then you wouldn’t fall under the classification of “New Shooter” would you?
Sorry about all the duplicates. Having mobile issues!
Hmm so what is the function of a safety? To prevent nds. If you have your finger on the trigger and you pull straight back releasing the trigger safety, then clearly it is an intentional discharge.
I believe the Glock “safety” is to try to prevent the corner of the trigger from catching on the holster and firing the gun. I don’t know why this point never seems to be brought up when people question it.
Because it’s not worth mentioning. That chance that you’ll catch the trigger, but not the face of the trigger is so remote that the trigger safety might as well not be there. It’ll help you maybe once out of 10,000 times that happens.
hey, as long as it keeps the lawyers happy. 😉
The trigger safety is to prevent the gun firing when dropped, as the trigger will not move without the safety depressed. And I don’t know how rare “holster firing” is, but one made the news in the last year–old IWB holster folded in at the top, and glock discharged while reholstering in his car. Other discharges have occurred when something intrudes into the trigger guard. That’s why I prefer the SA to th glock–you have to be actually holding the gun in order to depress the trigger.
Late reply but I did some research on this and I believe Carlos is wrong. The trigger safety blade doesn’t connect to anything internal in the gun so it can’t possibly be a drop safety. In other words, pulling back the blade does not disengadge the firing pin block. The back of the blade hangs down such that if you pull the corner of the trigger or don’t push it squarely, the back of the blade simply hits the frame and prevents the trigger from being pulled.
The firing pin block is disengadged whe the main trigger is pulled back. There is a third safety that relies on a crucible on the sear which provides for additional drop safety.
It makes sense to me, and doesn’t seem that improbable that a holster could apply some side pressure to the trigger.
The trigger safety on a factory Glock trigger is not the drop safety, though it does HAVE a drop safety. The trigger safety is meant as a physical method of preventing the trigger from moving rearward.
If I remember correctly, the sear block in Glock handguns act as the drop safety; a piece of metal separate from the striker that is physically seated between the striker and the chamber. The trigger has to be depressed backwards in order to move the sear block out of the way, to allow the striker to make contact with the round in the chamber. And unless the firearm is severely altered/broken or you have the worst luck in the world, dropping it won’t cause the trigger to be depressed.
Go do an image search for “Olympic target pistol”. What does the grip angle on those guns look like? Mind you, this is a sport in which a natural grip angle is of paramount importance. You’re not going to hit a bullseye the size of an aspirin tablet with a bunch of muscle tension.
What are the odds that you and some gun store clerk have just happened to stumble upon a fact that generations of the world’s best pistol shooters, seeking every possible advantage they can get, have somehow managed to overlook?
I’ll give you a hint: It’s zero.
Here’s the thing most shooting novices don’t understand: shooting is not pointing your finger. It’s not even like pointing your finger. At the moment of truth, when the shot breaks, your finger isn’t extended. It’s the exact opposite: it’s curled. And it’s not just curled, it’s exerting a significant amount of pressure on the trigger. Why would you assume that the proper wrist angle at that point in time, when performing that task, would bear any resemblance to what happens when you point your extended finger at something?
Hand a golf club or a tennis racket to someone who’s never played before, and ask them to hit a ball. “Just do what comes naturally.” What they’re going to come up with is nothing like a proper golf swing or tennis stroke. It’s not going to get them anything like a satisfying result. No golf or tennis coach would ever say something like that. And yet, you walk into half the gun shops in the land, and probably ninety percent of the gun forums on the internet, and you’ll hear, “Just try a bunch of guns and see which one feels most natural.” Look, if you want to feel natural, take your clothes off and run naked through a field. If you want to hit targets or drive more yards, you’re going to have to do some things that feel distinctly unnatural at first. We weren’t born with guns in our hands, any more than we were born knowing how to play golf or tennis.
The gun community is leaving new shooters out in the howling wilderness of their own ignorance, and unfortunately, many of those new shooters turn right around and repeat the same myths, until they become conventional wisdom.
Good post. Some claim that the Glock grip angle helps with recoil control. I believe it does slightly.
Those grips are custom molded to each shooters hand and preferred shooting grip. You just compared a Fiero to a Ferrari since both have the engine in the back.
Very excellent point. I’m a tennis player and shooter. I’ve had to unlearn years of bad tennis form to become a mediocre player, because I never took a lesson until I was in my 50’s. I had the good fortune to get several excellent tips from a Delaware State cop on correct handgun shooting when I first stared shooting in the 70’s, in my late teens. Your analysis is spot on.
Almost every handgun design manufactured with reasonable build-quality has something to recommend it. Provided it suits your carry requirements and you can shoot it well, who cares? Tell us what you like about your gun, not what you now find flawed with the gun you used to use. Obviously an exposed hammer can be a problem for pocket carry and a blued-steel barrel is dubious for maritime use. Beyond matters like that nothing but unreliability is a serious issue. One man’s meat is another man’s poison, as they say, and no personal opinion is more than that. They took hundreds of Delta guys and forced them onto an entirely different pistol not long ago. Two months later, it was a big yawn. Surprise, those other pistols work, too! A famous shooter, ex-Texas Ranger, complained that when he was young Ranger hats were issued in just one size, and he had a big head. It was, he said, miserable. Eventually it was OK, he related, because as far has he could tell his head had shrunk. My hand didn’t fit my otherwise optimal carry pistol perfectly. It’s fine now, because so far as I can tell, my hand shrunk. I think it happened during range practice.
You’re really gonna love the Walther PPQ with the 100% cocked design and what feels like a 4lb. trigger…
The fact that the trigger pull on a glock is always the same is one of the reasons I like them. I also like not having a manual safety or decocker; less things to slow me down in operating the pistol. Referencing someone’s post above, I have about 60,000-70,000 rounds down range through Glocks over the past 11 years and I really wouldn’t want to go with another system unless it was also striker fired.
Glocks have also been much easier for me to train new shooters on than DA/SA pistols because the control interface is much simpler to learn. A relative that was a police firearms trainer echoes this sentiment relating to why his department switched to Glocks; they couldn’t get recruits or officers to reliably decock when holstering, and guns that had safeties/decokers as one control invariably were decocked and left on safe, which resulted in pulling the trigger with no result when drawn in training.
As for things entering the holster and causing an ND; its critical with striker fired pistols to always make sure the holster is clear before holstering. Shirt tails, jackets, etc. always need to be out of the way. If you feel that speed reholstering is an essential part of your operating criteria; dress and train appropriately.
To the author, take a good fighting pistol class and put a couple thousand rounds through your pistol in a few days and you’ll quickly see the advantage to a striker fired system.
I’ve used and owned striker and hammer fired pistols. SA only, DA only with doublestrike capability (HK LEM trigger), etc. I can see where the author is coming from with regards to operator safety/target identification.
I also see where that trainer is coming from with his recruits; from an instructor perspective, a simpler handgun is alot easier to train.
I know this is a pretty educated crowd so I won’t delve into the physiological effects of an event as stressful as a gun fight. Training for that fight means keeping it VERY simple. I am not the least bit suprised that trainees had a tough time with safeties and decockers. Unless a LOT of time and repetition has been employed in their training, there’s a good possibility that those thumb-skills will go out the window during stress.
When I first began using the HK LEM trigger, words can’t describe how much I hated it. Coming from 1911s and Berettas the DA only was brutal. 10000-15000 rounds later, I had to admit that people who were a lot more experienced than I am made that call. I trained to overcome no safety, and the mile long pull/overtravel and do you know what? I realized the LAST things I wanted to worry about during the fight were a safety or, god forbid, two different trigger pulls in the same pistol.
Equipment, techniques, tactics; simplicity in these areas are keys to success. That’s why I like Glocks and any other pistol that has one uniform trigger squeeze for every shot.
I’ve whittled myself down to ONE DA/SA pistol (FNP 45 Tactical) that is just too awesome to give up. Other than that, Glocks and LEM HK’s are all that remain. In theory SA only is cool with me too. It’s not that DA/SA’s can’t be used; it just takes more training. As for me, I’m keepin’ it simple.
P.S. With just the most basic amount of prudence NDs just don’t happen, close to your body or otherwise.
For what it’s worth, I have taken a number of courses over at the Sig Sauer Academy. Granted, since it is the Sig academy, they are going to favor their operating system over the Glock’s, but the instructors I have had really don’t care what gun you are using. Every one I have had has either been Special Forces military with a lot of experience of SWAT team leaders. All of these guys have a lot more real world experience shooting guns under combat conditions than I will ever have.
I used my Beretta for every single course and one thing that I do agree is a problem with that gun is the combination decocker/safety. I have accidentally left my gun on safe a couple of times which caused problems, but the Sig’s decocker solves that issue for me. I’ve learned and practice decocking every time I put my gun in my holster, so it really is not a problem for me.
Sure, I’ve probably only run a few thousand rounds through my various pistol systems in the last year or so, but I stand by my comments.
First a Glock pistol is not fully cocked.
It is partically cocked. Pressing the trigger completes the cocking process and then fires the gun.
More importantly, from a safety standpoint, pressing the trigger also moves the firing pin block allowing the firing pin to travel forward and strike the primer causing discharge. After the firing process is complete the firing pin block returns to it’s original position and the pistol cannot be fired unless the trigger is again pressed.
It does not matter how light or heavy the trigger is. It does not matter if the pistol is striker fired, hammer fired, partially cocked or fully cocked.
No modern pistol will fire unless the trigger is pressed.
I understand that you are expressing your personal preferences . But if they are based on the belief that your choice is some how safer, they are unfounded.
It is impossible for the firing pin and the primer to come into contact as long as they are separated by the firing pin block. No matter what type of firing mechanism is used.
That heavy first shot is exactly why I hate DA/SA…I don’t want to miss my first shot in a DGU situation.
I carry a Walther PPQ, which is striker, and it took some time for me to become comfortable with it being ready to fire on my hip. But I’m confident in the internal safety features and the worksmanship, and it keeps me extra careful.
Get thee to competition. Over and over I hear the polymer crowd talk about that first shot and over and over I find my first shot out of the holster is just as fast and just as accurate as theirs. This said about shooters in my classification, those Borg like shooters that unload 12 rounds in four seconds with all A zone hits are a different breed.
At this point I own guns with all the major firing systems. I just picked up a Glock (wow, what an awesome price). In addition I own two Sigs, a Ruger P series, a 1911, and a PF9. All of these guns will go bang when I press the switch, none of them will go bang if I don’t press the switch.
My personal pet peeve is the grip safety on and XD. Ever notice how you can’t move the slide if the grip safety isn’t depressed? Ever wonder what would happen if some piece of crud got behind that thing? How would you clear the gun so you could repair it? Extra safeties scare me more than having a ‘cocked and locked’ gun ever would.
Seriously, don’t worry about how a modern fire arm going off like that. Care always has to be taken when handling a gun, but a gun in a holster that is in good repair is safer than almost any other mechanical object on the planet. It’s safer than my drill, my sawzall, my car. Heck it’s safer than my garage door!
I’m with Jim on this one, though I have even less experience with handguns than he does. Glocks feel wrong in my hands, and I’m used to external hammers. I work with my hands, so maybe heavy, revolver-type first trigger pull bothers me less than others. I’m leaning toward a DA/SA with a decocker for my first carry piece, probably a CZ.
Also, Glocks are ugly. I know, it’s a tool, but I want something a bit more elegant.
I hated Glocks my first years too. I think that’s a sentiment many of us followed at one time.
+ on the ugly
but in general I dislike ALL polymer guns
I carry a G26 with a round in the chamber, because drawing and racking will generally require two hands, or a hand and something to catch the slide on, and I’m not willing to accept that I will always have time to do that.
Glocks come from the factory with the same safety that every DA revolver has: a trigger that you don’t touch until you want to fire the weapon. You can get a “New York” 8-lb trigger added to a Glock if the 5.5lb factory trigger isn’t enough, I chose not to do so.
Something I did choose to do was to add a Saf-T-Block to my Glock carry system, a bit of machined plastic that fits behind the trigger guard. With the Saf-T-Block in place you cannot fire the weapon, because you can’t move the trigger. It’s held in place with a set screw that you can adjust for tension, mine doesn’t move in its holster but will drop free with a firing grip. I use this because I pocket carry, and while nothing else goes into the gun pocket, random stuff can and does happen and lowering my exposure to randomness is in my best interests. Other folks carry IWB in a holster that completely covers the trigger guard, which also solves the problem of not depressing the trigger. The guy who ND’d on his old nasty holster needs to learn about the wonder of Kydex.
As far as the pointing issue goes, the G26 works very well for me. It’s possible that I have simply adapted to the grip angle, but in truth I use the sights as much as possible so where it’s pointing isn’t particularly important if you aren’t point-shooting.
You’re certainly welcome to your opinions about striker-fired weapons, and I’m happy that you have found a system that works for you. My striker-fired pistol was adapted to cure all of the striker-related ills you list with a $20 piece of plastic, and now I have a pocket 9mm with over twice the ammo capacity of a J-frame, a shorter reload cycle than a J-frame and a consistent, manageable trigger pull. I also don’t have a grip safety that, while handy, can be an issue if it fails for mechanical reasons or you have to shoot wounded, weak-handed or with an otherwise imperfect grip.
To each his own. This is why, despite the existence of perfection in the eyes of many, folks have continued to make different handguns after the year 1911.
Off topic: Darren: I sometimes feel like a pariah because I pocket carry, but there are many reasons for it. I’m going to look into your Saf-T-Block. I just take a Blade-Tech SRT kydex holster , unscrew the whole belt attachment, loosen the holding screw slightly, and it works very nicely. My thumb brushes the “holster” off as I draw, which is old habit. It’s very safe in the pocket. I carry a very thin leather checkbook in front of the gun, to prevent any printing whatever.
I use the DeSantis Nemesis Pocket Holster. It’s sticky (a bit) on the outside, so it will grab your pocket when you try to draw it. It’s cushy enough that it doesn’t print, at least, nobody has ever commented on it.
I also have the luxury of wearing cargo/uniform type pants, originally 5.11s and now Duluth Trading FireHose pants. I can give up one front pocket for pistol-only because I have two cargo pockets to hold other stuff.
Draw from seated position is a little tough, and it’s far from ideal for off-hand draw, but it’s very stealthy and easy to casually slip your hand into your pocket and get a solid grip on the gun.
I have nothing against other carry techniques, but this one seems to work best for me.
I also have a DeSantis Nemesis Cargo Pocket holster for a Beretta Tomcat. While the pocket holster stays still as designed, the Cargo pocket holster does not work as well. I guess it was designed for a specific cargo pocket size and mine are a little larger. The Tomcat will stay holstered but the holster will slide around quite a bit, and the mag release gets tripped every once in a while. I carry the Tomcat with the DA/SA hammer down on a loaded chamber with the safety on, so I’m less worried about a ND with that setup, but the Nemesis Pocket for the Glock works well and is not particularly expensive.
I have a Galco leather holster for a J-frame, it works but it’s rather stiff, and truth be told I don’t particularly like anything about a J-frame except for its size.
To each their own. I recommend that everyone carry a Glock. My 23 has somewhere around 100,000 down the pipe with zero, I repeat zero, malfunctions. My 34 – 50,000, with no malfs. And that gun also went 6,000 without cleaning, just for fun. I finally cleaned it but not because it acted up. My 17 only has about 7,000 through it. One malf – one stovepipe about 300 rounds in. That’s it.
I hit what I’m aiming at everytime. The ergonomics are as good as anything out there. Safety is as safety does so if you shoot yourself with a Glock, you probably would have with anything else.
Not the kind of reporting I expect from TTAG. Must have been a slow day.
It’s not reporting, it’s Jim’s personal opinion, and he didn’t present it as anything other than that.
I doubt the former (Maybe theres a misplaced decimil point) but the latter round count with out cleaning is verifiable. I have personally fired more than 5,000 rounds through my GLOCK 17 with out cleaning or matinence and I had no failures that were not related to cheap primers not going off when hit.
The rental GLOCKS at our range get shot an average of 50-300 rounds a day. They have been in continual service for three years. There have been minor malfunctions, minimal matinence, and we have yet to replace any parts.
Experence proves they are phenominally reliable.
David – my point was simply to relay my opinion based on my experience. Yes, I have not been doing this for too long, but in the last year, I have purchased 13 different pistols, most of which I still own, some I have sold, so I feel that I can say that I have tried a bunch of different systems – not just as a rental gun at the range, but actually owned them for a time and put a fair number of rounds through each of them. I’m glad the Glock works for you, but if it was truly the be all end all of guns, then there would not be so many different options out there. To dismiss it as casually as you did because you don’t agree with it smacks of the kind of arrogance that we really don’t need in the fraternity of firearms ownership. Different stokes for different folks. Not every police officer uses the Glock even for their personal carry gun and not every competitor wins with Glocks. Understand that other people have equally valid opinions and the world will be a happier place.
In 1968, at age 19, I was issued a 1911 pistol as a crewman on an M48 tank. When I transfered to the military police we, of course, carried the 1911 as well. I grew up comfortable with the cocked N locked system. As a civilian LEO I’ve carried the 1911 as well as the Browning High Power for years also in the same mode, but have recently switched to the Sig Sauer P220, just because Sig is so friggin sweet. Having been involved in four shootings in 39+ years in civilian law enforcement, I never had a problem with the approximately 4 lb. trigger on the single action Browning creations.
About 15 years ago my agency started issuing the Glock although they allowed senior officers to still carry the weapon of their choice. I stuck with the Colt/Browning. I could just never get used to a pistol without a safety or (now) a decocker. I reckon it’s a matter of choice and experience. Glocks are fine weapons, the just aren’t for me. The bottom line is carry what you are comfortable and familiar with, and can shoot accurately. Everything else is just opinion.
It doesn’t sound so much that he has a problem with the “striker” as he does with the grip, the trigger pull and the basic design philosophy.
For me I like an affirmative safety on a gun that I carry loaded. That’s why I like the 1911 (and by extension the Springfield XD(M)) — even with the manual safety off, which I think you want for a defensive situation, the grip safety still controls the gun. Unless properly gripped, and thus depressed, the pistol will not fire.
As to the hammer/firing pin vs striker mechanism I don’t see why one is better/worse than the other. In the former the hammer strikes the firing pin driving it forward into the primer, in the latter a spring drives the striker into the primer. The bottom line is nothing happens until the tip of the firing pin/striker hits the primer — how it gets there seems immaterial to me.
Davis….come on dude. 100000 rounds is 10,000 rounds a year for 10 years. I don’t believe it. Not to mention the fact that I doubt one could go that many rounds with any gun without some sort of malfunction or broken part.
Carry what you’re comfortable with, but no single mechanical safety can be fully relied on–that’s why modern guns tend to have 2 or 3. The most important thing is to never intentionally disable any safety devices, and you can safely carry your handgun how it was intended to be carried.
Utilize mechanical safeties, but never neglect your brain safety.
The follow up shot from a GLOCK is *NOT* 25% heavier than a SIG’s if you’re doing it right. I’m yet to find a handgun that has a crisper, more predictable reset than do GLOCK pistols. Done propperley, you fire it like it is a double action. Your first pull is longer and harder, and then you ride the reset, never letting go of the trigger, and you have a much shorter travel, with a much lighter trigger pull.
Further, the ONLY saftey that matters in the firearm world is the one in-between your ears. All the others are mechanical devices that have a possibility of failure, and are not to be trusted.
The way a firearm fits your hand is important, for sure. But propper training and gripping the pistol so that the slide is in line with your wrist and your arm are far more conductive to a pistols natural ability to point than anything else is.
The problem I encounter with Double Action/Single Action pistols is that the first shot will be the hardest one to hit with. This can present a problem when the first shot is the only one any of us is assured of. Keep in mind that a criminal will have the advantage of time and location to launch an attack, and all of us will be behind the curve playing catch-up. In the best case scenario we beat the crooks draw . In the worst the bad guy puts one in you before you even know they’re there.
Fortunately most perps are in the first category of competency,but it comes back to trigger type in this manner;any of us could be facing someone with a loaded gun already pointed with the finger on the trigger.The TDA system forces the shooter to pull it slowly to accurately hit, pull it fast for a more-or-less guaranteed miss , or shoot 5000 rounds to get good enough with the heavy pull to accomplish both tasks quickly.At the range I can take a Beretta 9mm and hit within 3″ of the bullseye on DA, but that’s slow fire at the lighted firing range.
On the street that means ill be lucky to hit the target at all, and if I do it won’t be a vital hit. Conversely in single action for me all the rounds cluster in a nice 2″ group in the center, so that’s why I dumped TDA for a single action carry gun.
I’m not surprise that the Tupperware fans are trying to persuade you but I am glad that no one seems to have taken your article personally. If someone doesn’t like a particular gun that is fine, they should shoot what they like and feel comfortable with. To each there own.
My ECG is a Steyr S9. I find that the combination of sight picture and grip angle works well for me. Interesting thing about grip angle: what aligns poorly from the point shoulder position may line up just dandy for sighted fire. e.g. CZ-52, Tokarev T33. Jim’s nervousness about carrying a ready-to-go pistol is the same reason some people don’t like to carry a SA auto in Cond. 1. I have no qualms regarding the safety of carrying the S9 (OWB @ 3 o’clock) and like the fact that it’s ready to shoot with no other action required out of the holster.
Each and every trigger pull has about 5.5 pounts of pull weight which for me is too light on the initial draw and more than 25% heavier than my Sig for follow-up shots.
To address the first pull after a draw, from the Glock www site:
“N.Y.1 The GLOCK „New York“ trigger has its name from the New York Police Department. It facilitates officers changing from revolvers to pistols. Increases trigger pull weight from 2,5 kg / 5.5 lb. to 4,9 kg / 11 lb.”
Of course this is also the weight for every pull. Perhaps this is too stiff for a competition pistol. For a defense pistol, in the heat of battle, I’m skeptical that it would decrease accuracy.
i actually switched back from a glock trigger to a da/sa set up. my fist pistol was a rugerp944, also a doublesingle, but for some reason i thought the glock was what i wanted. so i have reverted back to a sig 226elite.
I considered piling on here with regard to trigger weight and grip angle. I see no need because focusing upon those two topics is a digression from the actual topic of fighting. Every gun mentioned is a gun designed as a combat sidearm. The firing of the weapon while stationary is the easy part. The rest of it involves movement, firing while moving, tactics, mixing in combatives, after-action activities, and managing the police.
Review 7677’s “Sight Continuum” (google it). It really does not matter that the front sight is slightly higher or lower when you bring it up if the distance is close. There are many close quarter shooting techniques and the closer the target, the less time available to get the shot off. Never forget about initiative because you will have less time if you are behind the curve. Acquiring and lining up the sights requires extra time, so sighted shooting makes sense only when precision is necessary or there is time because of distance or circumstance.
New shooters should focus upon gun safety and trigger control. Sighting is the easy part. Once the new shooter has a solid foundation in trigger control, he or she should then seek out formal self-defense training. Many shooters never learn to shoot on the move, yet this is an essential skill. Stationary people are more likely to be shot; miss rates go up (likely into the 90% range) against moving targets. Tactics are another essential skill, yet most people focus upon shooting because it’s more fun. Combatives are another difficult to acquire skill; they’re needed because many confrontations occur within ten feet. Have you tried drawing a gun from concealment with someone closing in on you? You will likely get hit before that gun gets out; it’ll feel like it’s stuck in the holster.
Take a look at these courses (or similar):
1) Any two day “Level 1” self-defense course
2) Craig Douglas’ “ECQC” course. http://www.shivworks.com. You will learn about the realities of close quarters fighting. Quite a bit of time is spent on awareness, pre-attack indicators and combatives.
3) Roger Phillips’ “Point Shooting Progressions”. The course is about movement.
4) Any knife fighting course.
The above progression of courses will give the new shooter the skills necessary to increase his or her odds of survival in a violent confrontation.
If this is your conclusion then you don’t have enough training or experience
While this doesn’t specifically address the topic of this article, the principles apply.
One of my favorite instructors.
“a 1911 that works correctly is as rare as a glock that doesn’t”
I had a Glock 23 and sold it. I think to big for CCW. They are like AKs, simple, and reliable. Are they the best? No. Go and handle a Walther PPS and tell me you like the glock grip after that!
“I had a Glock 23 and sold it. I think too big for CCW.”
Interesting. I have Glocks in the small and mid-sized frames, but I prefer the Glock 21. I carry a Glock 21 Gen4 in the appendix position. I am neither tall nor heavily built. It conceals fine since I dress around it. I carry it strong side if I need additional discretion.
You live in Houston, home to dozens of IPSC and IDPA Master and Grand Master level competitors with matches every weekend, home of excellent local trainers (Brian Hoffner, Justin Galindo, Tim Oxley), and home to the Impact Zone range, who hosts national level courses from multiple schools. Within a few hours’ drive of Houston you can access dozens more schools: KR Training near Austin, Fast762 in Bryan, Paul Howe’s school in Nacogdoches, Paul Gomez in Baton Rouge (and a frequent visitor to Bastrop), BJ Norris in Tyler, Bill Davison (TacPro), Rifles Only, and many, many more.
If you are going to be writing for TTAG it makes NO sense for you to be getting advice about guns and shooting from gun shop employees when you live within easy access of training opportunities far better than most TTAG readers have available in their area. Most of those schools offer training that costs less than the price of any of the guns you’ve purchased.
I’m not going to do a point-by-point rebuttal because it would take too much time, but a couple of points demand a response.
Hammer fired guns with separate firing pins are not “technically striker fired”.
Guns that use a striker fired system do not have hammers, they are fired by a striker or firing pin driven directly by a spring.
There are two hammer fired systems but both have one thing in common; namely the presence of a spring driven hammer. In one the hammer has a firing pin mounted directly to it. In the other system, the hammer hits a firing pin and the firing pin hits the primer.
The second point that requires a rebuttal is the claim that Glocks are single action and are “cocked” by racking the slide. Glocks are not single action because the trigger does about 75% of the work of cocking the gun in terms of generating striker spring energy. Since the trigger both does a significant amount of the work of cocking the gun and also releases the striker to fire the gun, it absolutely does not fit the definition of a single action design in which the trigger does only one job–releasing the striker/hammer to fire the gun. It’s also fair to say that it’s not, strictly speaking a true double action design, but that’s another issue for another discussion.
It should be obvious from the paragraph above that Glocks are never really “cocked” in the conventional sense unless the trigger is actually pulled to the rearward almost to the point of firing. The Glock with the trigger forward is designed so that in that “mode” only about 25% of the energy normally used to fire the gun is stored in the striker spring. Even if all of the 3 passive safeties were to fail somehow and the striker dropped from that position, it is extremely unlikely that amount of energy would be sufficient to fire the gun. It is my understanding that was actually a design criterion for the weapon.
Barrett, you could just say “I don’t like Glocks because they don’t fit my hand.” I have the same idea, it’s one gun that doesn’t fit my hand, just like most handguns save for 1911’s, SIG’s, and CZ’s. Every shooter is unique in what works for them, just like every firearm has a fairly unique way of giving the firing pin energy to make the gun go bang.
My P290 has a fairly different way of going from stationary to bang as compared to a Kel-Tec P11, and the single action Glock has a different operating principle than the 1911 or a DA/SA revolver.
You need to buy 22LR coversion units for your handguns so that you can afford to shoot them enough to gain some wisdom, also moving to TX would be a positive step
I tend to agree with many of the sentiments as put forth above. I have a couple of Colt 45’s and 3 GLOCKs as my “combat” weapons. I’m sure that I grip them differently, but I enjoy them so much, and I am so focused on my front sight that I really hadn’t formed a preference to grip angle. I do CCW a GLOCK 27, mostly because it is the smallest gun that I own that fires what I think is an adequate cartridge.
I guess some people are more sensitive than others.
I would recommend that you look both ways before you cross a street or a group of knowledgeable shooters, either way, you won’t get run over by that bus…
One pistol that has suffered from a distinct lack of effective marketing is the Walther P99. The Anti-Stress variety, the P99AS, is an excellent example of a striker fired pistol that is also a true DA/SA firearm. Oh yeah…it has a decocker too.
Glocks are perfectly safe given perfect handling. I know we’d all like to think we will never do something dumb with gun handling, but if you think it is impossible for you then I’ll submit that you are just being macho. All else being equal, a DA/SA that is chambered is safer than a glock due to heavier trigger pull. Also, you usually have the option of clicking on your safety. To wave these options away as insignificant in general is nonsense.
All this “the only safety that matters is between your ears” talk. If this were actually true, how much differently would all products (not just guns) be manufactured? Safe manufacturing takes human imperfection into account.
You may want to consider the Walther P99 AS. It’s a striker-fired pistol with a decocker. Single-action when cocked; double-action when decocked. And that with double-strike capability; also with an “anti-stress” long-but-light trigger pull in the single-action mode — aside from short-and-light trigger pull, also in the single-action mode.
The FNS-9 is a striker-fired pistol with thumb-safety on it; also with the Ruger SR9. There are striker-fired pistols now that come with thumb-safety just in case you aren’t comfortable with a pistol that doesn’t have one.
One more thing, you aren’t stressed any more when reholstering your pistol; you may want to reholster it like you would a knife — with care! Trigger-finger out of the trigger! Guns don’t have what you have between your ears — specially when it’s trained.
Pistol safeties work no matter how they operate; but they won’t function as they must for one who isn’t trained. Trigger action may carry with it an added safety; but too much safety-feature might work in favor of your assailant than for your advantage. In the first place, I won’t carry a pistol that’s safe for my opponent in case of a quick-draw; on the other hand, I won’t carry a pistol that’s dangerous for my opponent if I’m not trained in gun-retention.
This is not to say that there isn’t a safe pistol; but too much safety features might defeat their intended purpose without being trained in them. Training works more than the safety features of a handgun.
Personally, I have a hammered-fired all-steel pistol with an 11-pound double-action-only trigger and a thumb-safety that works even with a round in the chamber. And this is my only pistol — if you know what I mean.
how about a striker fired pistol with a grip saftey like the XDM? you holster it with your thumb on the rear of the striker, just like putting your thumb on the hammer of your SIG. Safer than the sig because if you dont engage the grip safety, impossible to pull the trigger.
It’s hard to imagine a scenario having a AD if you do the above when re-holstering..
what about with a SA/DA and you forget to decock?
The only safety I need is my finger! The trigger finger never goes into until I plan on shooting. Really the Glock is phenomenal design, it fits my hand perfecdtly, I have never had a malfunction (I own several) and it is light which is a real plus for everyday carry!
I got to the part where you said most glocks are single action, you sir are retarded, no glocks are single action ALL GLOCKS ARE DAO MEANING DOUBLE ACTION ONLY, double action means it cocks the hammer and drops it, single action means it only drops the hammer
I’ve owned a glock and a sig both 45s. After shooting myself in the foot 12-times with the sig and 0-times with the glock, I feel much safer with the glock. Seriously, I’ve studied both guns in depth, and I feel the Glock – in any condition, is far safer than the Sig. And as others have stated, all modern Glocks are Double Action only, and though they recommend storing the gun in the non-partially cocked condition, it is every bit as safe as the uncocked Sig in either condition, but the Sig is infinitely more dangerous when cocked than the Glock ever is. The folks that have had accidental Glock discharges I have no doubt used either an unsafe holster or were distracted and likely would have had the same accidental discharge regardless of what weapon they owned. Sure no one tool is right for everyone, however, Jim’s decision to avoid Glock is based on his false conception of how the weapon operates. Glock having the best documentation I’ve ever seen for any firearm, I’m pretty sure Jim hasn’t been reading his instruction manuals 🙂
I’ve owned a glock and a sig – both 45s. After shooting myself in the foot 12-times with the sig and 0-times with the glock (luckily, after the 1st 2-times, the doc just left a hole there, so subsequent shots just pass through), I feel much safer with the glock. Seriously, I’ve studied and handled both guns extensively, and I feel the Glock – in any condition, is far safer than the Sig. And as others have stated, all modern Glocks are Double Action only, and though they recommend storing the gun in the non-partially cocked condition, it is every bit as safe as the uncocked Sig in either condition, but the Sig is infinitely more dangerous when cocked than the Glock ever is. The folks that have had accidental Glock discharges I have no doubt used either an unsafe holster or were distracted and likely would have had the same accidental discharge regardless of what weapon they owned.
Sort of late to the game here. I own a Sig 239-hated the firearam but have grown to love it and have a Glock 27 and a Glock 19. I am from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts-so our choice in firearms are very resricted (could spend days on this-but back to the topic). I did a couple of tours overseas-and we use the beretta M9 that both has a safety and a double action/single action trigger. I subscribe to the military philosophy-the first shot you are going to need a bit of time to think about due to civilians, presence of friendly’s, other troops-being shot at, grenades chucked at you and having your adrenalin screaming through your system since you are worried about a roadside bomb-is probably not a good set up for a single action only trigger. Ok you find the bad guy-double action squeeze-game on with single action till you send him to Allah. Got it.
As for close combat-if someone is ten feet away from you-no way you are going to get a shot off-they will close to fast. you might get your firearm out-but if your finger is on the trigger-then what? 10 feet or less fists come out or back up and draw-Glocks are good, but having an extra bit of safety with the firearm seems to be the way to go in a fight situation.
I have a Taurus 24/7 G2 that has been absolutely reliable through many thousands of rounds of various types of ammunition. This is DA/SA striker fired pistol. It has a manual decocker that is integrated into the manual safety. Up for safety, middle for fire, down to decock. This pistol can also be manually placed into SA mode by racking the slide and holding the trigger. So, you could pop a round in the chamber, hold the trigger and release the slide then insert your magazine. Now, you’ve got a cocked gun in SA mode. Hit the decocker, and your now in DA mode. Click up the safety and you’re in safety-on mode. This firearm certainly gives you any of the modes you want to carry and all the safety features of a hammer-fired weapon in a striker-fired design. Oh, it also has a loaded chamber indicator and dual-strike capability should you encounter a reluctant primer. Anyway, options and choices exist and that’s a good thing for everybody. Cheers
More of that different strokes for different folks. I personally wouldn’t carry anything other that a striker fired gun. Whether it’s my Glock 23 or Walther PPQ with the Quick Defense Trigger, these guns are consistent shot after shot. I’ve done some tweaking on my Glock and it is a real sweet shooter. The Walther came that way from the factory. I love my 1911 and Browning Hi-Power as well but for me, they are range guns even thought I wouldn’t hesitate to carry one if I didn’t have to conceal it. And then there is my Rohrbaugh R9 DAO and my S&W 340PD DAO. Fantastic little guns and so easy to carry and shoot. I can ring the bell with either out to 30 yards. I guess for defensive carry I want the trigger pull the same for every shot. Just me.
I never have liked the striker fired type of pistol. I have always been use to the heavy initial pull of the double action gun like the Beretta 92 or the Sig P226.
a glock is never cocked in the first place , so no need to de cock , as a Certified Glock Armorer , I can tell you that a Glock is as safe or SAFER than a double action revolver , drop tests done from three stories will not fire a Glock , if you dont pull the trigger it cannot go off !!!!!
Seriously dude?? Stuff like this should really not be on the internet. The issue is not with Glock,it is with you. You need training training training. I’m a Sig ccw holder, but really annoys me to see garbage about other guns,even glocks posted like this.
bunch of dummies
Pete the way the left is trying for gun control I don’t think it’s a good idea saying you are a killer. Just saying!!
Too many comments to read through, so my apologies if you’ve already received this criticism:
You need to learn the differences between striker and hammer fired. You clearly do not understand how they work. A hammer does not hit a striker, it hits a firing pin. A striker is basically like hammer and pin in one part, and not accessible (the latter you do seem to get).
Many striker fired pistols have pre-set strikers, such as the Glock (the striker does not rest in full cocked position, and if it *could* be released, will not move with enough force to depress the primer). Hence it cannot go off, as soo many have pointed out, without depressing the trigger and its built in safety release.
But not all striker fired pistols are that way, some are true DA/SA, as someone pointed out the P99 is. So are several Taurus semis. I have one, the 24/7 OSS (discontinued). I carry it in a satchel in mass transit to and from work to my military base. I feel safest with it because not only is the striker decockable with true double action, but it has a frame, not slide, mounted manual safety to block the striker from hitting the round in the chamber. It is a very secure gun, yet ready to go in a split second with a quick downward flip of the thumb. For safety, I carry one in the chamber but decocked, since it is true DA. It also has a loaded chamber indicator and a separate cocked indicator.
It’s the best of all worlds for a purely utilitarian pistol. For my open carry, I have a Sig 1911 or a Para 14.45 PXT two tone.
I passed on a Glock despite its great package deal, lots of accessories available, etc, because it’s dangerous for my use–in a satchel. Something could jam into the trigger guard and pull the trigger unintentionally. My satchel does have a special separate compartment for the pistol, but still, I wanted to feel at ease and be able to bang around the train and run and jump without fear of the gun goin’ off.
SIG’s, Taurus PT92/100, Bersa Thunder series, etc. with exterior hammers, decocking levers, and hammer block safeties, are also very safe for this type of carry. And if you carry in half cock with one in the chamber, so is a 1911, esp. a Para or similar, who’s hammer half cock position is not literal half cock but at a position that leaves the face of the hammer still protected by its groove in the slide, so that nothing could pull it back further, should the safety drop. From this position, you can carry a 1911 hot but perfectly safe, and all you’ll need is to finish rock the hammer back with your thumb when you need to fire.
“I passed on a Glock despite its great package deal, lots of accessories available, etc, because it’s dangerous for my use–in a satchel. Something could jam into the trigger guard and pull the trigger unintentionally.”
Any handgun should be in a separate pistol pocket from the other stuff because any handgun could discharge, Glock or otherwise. I hedge my bets and store my “on duty” guns in a kydex holster that fully covers the trigger. There is no reason not to do so and every reason to do so.
People are scared of striker fired handguns due to lack of training and lack of experience. Observe the 4 safety rules and three non firing constants.
What do you think about a M&P with a safety?
Untrained shooter is untrained.
I think too many people over think this. I started as a cop with revolvers. .357 and .44 magnums working in Az back in the early 80s. I eventually went to a Sig Sauer P226. My favorite of the semi-automatics, is the Sig. I was not happy when the Glock 17 was forced on me by my large department. They forced the NY spring on us to make it an 8+ pound trigger (to make sure we didn’t have accidental discharges or AD’s) and made accuracy shots more of a challenge. The AD is too often caused by a physiological phenomenon that has nothing to do with DA/SA or pounds of trigger pull. Then someone on our department became wiser (okay, we got a more gun oriented chief) and we went to the 5 pound connector. Much better. I own my P226 and way too many Glocks of various calibers. I had the grip on my G21 reduced to get rid of the swell on the back of the grip and I love it. I also went to a negative (3.5-4 pound) connector when I retired. No AD’s to date.
Much better and if you follow safety rule number two, and don’t place your finger on the trigger too soon it doesn’t seem unsafe. As for clothing catching when concealing? I carried a Glock from 1989 on and never encountered that problem nor did I with the others I carried concealed. It’s called practice and developing muscle memory, as well as good safety practices: common sense. Holsters that cover the trigger guard should be the only way to carry open or concealed,
I have several 1911’s, an M-9, revolvers and too many others to mention. I love ’em all. Now for the million dollar question.
Why would you carry with an empty chamber? Counter intuitive with a modern gun and all their internal safeties.
Here’s my issue with the gun debate. To many people trying to invoke in what they feel is the best. Who cares what we think. Buy guns that are comfortable to you, fit your need and liking , learn about a few systems for yourself and stop believing bullshit true or not. Maybe you love that your buddys Glock never had a issue, maybe you love your dads 1911 because there were smiles while cleaning it. But unless you have tried everything for yourself you Dont know which is better. And here’s truth for you, my glock may be better than your xd but your 1911 is better than my glock but my glock is better than your friends 1911 and so is your xd. However your xd is better than my friends glock and my dads 1911 is better than them all. But I went out and bought another glock that seems better than everything except the Steyr your sister has but your sisters boyfriends steyr doesn’t work for shit. Guns are mechanical , tolerances are precision and least amount of human and computer error can change to outlook to any gun. That’s the beauty of guns the beauty of arguing over plastics and metals. Listen to yourself the last guy opinion is probably biased. Like mine, HK,Sig,Glock,Steyr are the only guns I spend money on because in MY experience everything else has had issues. But you might not be so lucky and get a bad HK or Sig or something else. Then there’s the haters that hate popular, what they can’t have, Dont have, fear and don’t like because they’re girlfriends repeated some negative shit about a Glock but never even fired or held one.
On a glock, the striker always sits in the fully forward position until the triger is pulled. when the trigger is pulled the extension bar engages the striker, thus”cocking it.” Glock’s safe action trigger system is not cocked all of the time, the trigger system resembles a double action only trigger system.
Hey, different strokes for different folks. I carried a 2nd gen S&W (DA/SA) until I went to the tupperware side of the force when I discovered the ergonomics of the Glock suited my hand much more than the stainless brick of the 659.
I know of ND’s that have happened to any of a variety of firearms, including revolvers and semiautos… including the case of the Chief of one of the first PD’s to adopt the G17 as a duty sidearm installing a .355″ skylight in his office one day, purportedly while he was “cleaning” it.
The fact that he is one of those anti’s who prattle about how the police should be the only ones who carry because of their special training made it extra delicious.
It all comes down to following the Four Rules all the time.
I read the article, but not all the responses. First i would like to say that a flock is not single action its Dao (double action only). Next is that the flock is not fully cocked by racking the slide. It’s half cocked. The reason it has the same trigger pull is because, while pulling the trigger it fully cocoa then moves the pin safety out of the way before firing. Havig the different pulls in my opinion throws off the first two shots fired from the firearm.
I agree. the DA/SA trigger mechanism is a safer system. Regardless of how well you are trained there can ALWAYS be human error. When it comes to liability, there is ABSOLUTELY no room for human error. If you value your freedom and your family life its just not worth it. The consequence will break most men. I strictly carry DA/SA as it is a safer system for me an others around me.
Just picked up an FNH FNS in 40 cal.Made in USA, It is striker fired, has the trigger safety, but the one thing that sold me was the external slide safety and it also when engaged stops the trigger from moving at all. Its in the same realm as the block,m&p,Xdm/Xd polymer pistols, mine came with night sights 3 14 round mags and was 660.00 new. I wanted another p229,had one and it needed to be refreshed,new barrel,would have been another 350.00. A new one is close to a grand. LOve sigs will get another because i love the decocker system and the da/sa setup. Also the FNH FNX is a hammer style,like a sig and a block got mixed together,looking at that one in 45,has the big trigger guard like the sig the hammer and decocker,but is also a lighter polymer pistol. Worth checking out maybe?
If you are going to take the time to publish something on a site titled The Truth About Guns, please take the time to properly educate yourself first. Glock is a DOA (double action only) pistol. Take the gun down and study the trigger set up. The hammer is only cooked during the trigger pull. The safety plunger is only depressed during the trigger pull. If you don’t like the feel or point of aim, that is fine. However, please do not add things to your article that you obviously know nothing about. This is where the Democratic Party obviously gets their inaccurate data, and terminology from.
Hey- get what you want
I’m brand new to guns and have been doing a lot of reading. Wow are people opinionated on gun subjects! In considering a gun for occasional concealed carry I came upon the same logic as this article all on my own.
If you have to pull your gun in a situation where you think there is possible imminent danger to your life, you are going to have a lot of adrenaline in your system. You are also going to have to possibly make a split second decision as to whether you need to kill someone or not. Notice the word NEED. Do you know how many people go to prison for man slaughter in what they thought was clearly a self defense situation? Lots.
So, here you are with tons of adrenaline and in fear of your life, so, because you are in fear of your life, you immediately put your finger on the trigger as you pull your weapon. Yes, it goes against your safety training, but you did it anyway. Everyone thinks they are a gun safety expert (from what I’ve read) but frankly, no one can say for sure how they will react in certain situations as each situation will be unique from the last. They like to talk in theory though.
No matter how experienced of a gun user I am, I want that first pull to be a heck of a lot heavier than 4 or 5 lbs. because if I’m going to kill someone, I want to do so extremely intentionally, not semi-intentionally because my gut reaction was to get my finger on the trigger as fast as possible and my finger twitched in the heat of the moment. Yes, I know you are not suppose to put your trigger on the finger until you want to pull it, but time and time again, in situations involving not just guns, so called ‘trained professionals’, ‘experts’, ‘veterans’, etc etc make mistakes in the heat of the moment. I believe a DA/SA trigger just makes more sense in a concealed carry situation. This is not to say a single action cannot be carried and drawn safely in a life threatening situation, but the goal should always be maximum safety. I think it’s just uncomfortable for people to acknowledge their behavior is not 100% predictable in all situations.
SA/DA are safer, have better triggers and more options….you can do anything with a SA/DA that you can do with a striker fired pistol, and you can see the hammer, if you don’t like the feel of the long trigger pull, cock the hammer, just like a revolver…. external hammer better in all respects…. and there are several polymer SA/DA I love my Beretta Storm…. and my Taurus Pt845 and my FNP 45 tactical is an awesome gun.
If the first time you pull your gun is in a life threatening situation you’re probably going to hurt yourself or someone else. The same as if the first time you ever throw a pass is in the last 10 seconds of the Superbowl … you’re probably going to screw it up. Practice is the only way to create habits that will overcome the adrenaline of the moment. I would urge anyone that is serious about carrying for self-defense to get involved in GSSF, IDPA, IPSC or any other competition where you can practice drawing and shooting, using cover, shooting while moving, etc while under stress. Is it the same as life or death? Of course not. Neither is practicing pass patterns the same as running them in the Superbowl, but you’re more likely to be successful with practice than without. Competition creates stress as a result of time and scoring, as well as peer pressure to keep up with your buddies. It helps your body and brain train for the time they may need to react in a crisis.
STFU, noob. What do you deem safe; a 25 lb trigger pull? 40? I hope you’ve gained some sense in the time since you posted your nonsense.
The Glock simply cannot go off without a trigger pull
It’s a single action gun with the trigger pull of a double action
You are tensioning the striker when you pull the trigger, therefore it literally, in no situation could go off without a trigger pull.
That being said, I don’t like Glocks either.
Just don’t care for a polymer frame, no safety, blocky look.
Just my personal preference.
The Glock is NOT single action as the writer states. It is actually Double Action Only (DAO) in that the trigger pull pushes the striker back to “cock” it on every trigger pull and then releases it (double action). It is NEVER in single action mode so the writer’s basic premise is wrong (sorry to bring facts to the table) … I didn’t read all the posts but I saw one that said something about an idiot teaching a safety class that negligently discharged a round … probably shouldn’t have been teaching a gun class of any kind. First rule of gun safety class is not to have live ammo in the classroom. Without multiple mechanical failures (can never rule out mechanical failure … but it would take failure of all 3 internal safeties) or some bozo doing a home customization job (which by definition changes the Glock design), the Glock will NEVER … that’s right, NEVER NEVER NEVER strike the primer and discharge a round without pulling the trigger. That’s why it has the reputation (well earned) of being the safest and most reliable gun on the market.
I’m sorry, but that is incorrect.
You cannot pull a Glock trigger and set off the striker twice.
It must be pulled back slightly to reset the striker.
That means it is single action.
It’s a single action pistol with the trigger pull of a double action.
You don’t understand the definition of single action/double action. I am a Factory Certified Glock Armorer as well as an NRA Instructor and I can assure you that you are factually incorrect. Pulling the trigger to “set off the striker twice” would make it a fully automatic pistol and has absolutely zero to do with single action/double action. If the trigger sets the hammer (or the striker in this case) as well as releases the hammer/striker to fire a round it performs two actions, ergo it is double action. A single action trigger performs only the single action of releasing the hammer/striker. In a single action pistol, the hammer has to be cocked manually (think old cowboy six shooters where they “fanned” the hammer). In a Glock, the slide on its backstroke does partially push the striker back, but it will not fire until the trigger pull fully cocks the striker and then releases it. Glock describes it as “Safe Action” but it fits the definition of double action as the trigger performs two actions, cocking the striker and releasing the striker. It does not fit the definition of single action as the striker cannot be fully cocked without a trigger pull. I’m not certain how you became “Gustav the Gunsmith”, but this is a basic concept.
I think he meant to say, can’t pull the trigger twice and have it go click the second time when dry firing it. His phrasing is a bit ambiguous but I am nonetheless pretty sure he wasn’t talking about full auto.
A normal double action gun can be repeat dry fired over and over again without doing anything other than pulling the trigger repeatedly. A Glock must have its slide pulled back to do something-or-other in it between each trigger pull, so it’s not functioning like the typical DA/SA in that regard.
It may well be that pulling the trigger *completes* the cocking process but by itself it’s not sufficient–the slide must be partially racked. To the guy outside the slide of the gun, it therefore behaves like a single action, even if the internals show the trigger does some cocking. I don’t work on guns, therefore I just see its manual of arms: In the hands of the user, it functions as if it were single action.
And because you are talking to people who use them rather than work on them, that’s why you keep hearing assertions the Glock is a Single Action. Because from their point of view, it might as well be. They really don’t care, and cannot see, that some spring is being pushed on when they pull the trigger; they just know when they are dry firing they have to keep doing something to it, other than pulling the trigger, to get it to work the second, third, fourth, etc. time.
Perhaps it’s better to think of it as a 1 1/2 action gun, since, technically, mechanically, it is a double action, but operationally it behaves as if it were SA.
Interesting take, and don’t want to kick the dead horse too much, but people should take the information and new knowledge for what it is. SA/DA has nothing to do with dry firing exercises or their mistaken perceptions of what’s happening when they pull the trigger. Glock doesn’t “behave” like a SA. Glock describes it as “Constant Double Action”. I can call the Moon a planet because it appears to behave like a planet as long as I ignore the reality of the relative motion and the definition of a planet (and I’d probably get corrected by people who know better). If people want to ignore the definition of SA or DA, that’s their prerogative … but the distinction between ignorant and stupid is made when you have the knowledge and choose to ignore or dismiss it.
I think the real salient remark on this author’s opinion is in the first paragraph: “last year or so of my admittedly brief tenure as a member of the fellowship of the gun.” Hopefully since this comment was written the author has gained enough experience to see his stated objections are without valid reasoning.
For over 10 years, I carried a 1911 cocked and locked, both open and concealed depending on the time and place. My reasoning was very simple: If I felt I needed to use the firearm in defense of myself or others, I wanted it as ready to fire as possible with the least amount of thinking or manipulation necessary to bring the firearm to bear ready to fire.
I currently carry Glock 23’s. Yes, that mean more than one. I have also carried XD models, but the Glock fits my hand a little better and when I draw fast and shoot fast, the XD requires that I arch my wrist in order to hit the target directly in front of me with the first shot.
The type of thinking the author exhibits is similar to the reasoning that some people — believe it or not — still carry double action revolvers with an empty chamber under the hammer. The same reasoning is present with those who refuse to carry a semi-auto pistol with a round in the chamber.
This type of reasoning in my opinion — backed by over five decades in “fellowship of the gun” (whatever that means) — demonstrates a serious lack of understanding about how these firearms actually work. I have to also question the ability of a person afraid of the firearm they carry to actually be able to bring the firearm into play quickly when such action is called for.
This author’s point of view is too much like that of a person who believes a firearm is safer from a child handling it by having a safety as well as a heavy trigger pull. The only thing that will make a firearm safer is for the person owning it to be extremely familiar with that firearm and having sense enough to actually secure it to keep children or others from having unsupervised access.
Well Sir, the Glock is Double Action Only thing has been beat to death in the comments. So based on your factually incorrect information, I’m going to guess you either don’t carry that Springfield 1911 or, if you do, not cocked and locked.
You decock a glock by dropping the mag and racking the slide.article fail.
i don’t know if anyone has mentioned this(i only read the first 10 or 15 posts), but glocks aren’t single action. they are technically double action.
The level of ignorance displayed in this post is really stunning. How does TTAG allow this nonsense to be posted? WTH?
The information which compares a Glock trigger to a single action is grossly incorrect. A glock trigger is more like a double action only, with a slightly lighter pull weight. A decocker will not protect anyone from a negligent discharge, and most sigs have a smoother, easier double action trigger than a stock glock trigger. Each time the trigger is pulled on the glock, it must engage the striker and pull it to the rear, closely fitting the characteristics of a double action only gun. THE solution to being paranoid about carrying with a round in the tube is to have a good holster that protects the trigger, and to train sufficiently. A double action/single action gun is no more safe than a 1911, or any striker fired gun that has no safety.
I have a crazy noob question. First, I totally agree – after searching around forever, I realize I want a DA/SA hammer 9mm for my first carry piece.
I see on CZ 75 compact models – some have a decocker and some have a safety. And my question is this – when you put the safety on a DA/SA pistol, will it always decock the gun? (my lil ruger sr22 does that)
A year later, but I’ll answer this.
It depends on the gun. The safety on a Beretta 92 decocks the gun and puts it on safe (pulling the trigger will not cause the gun to fire, unless it’s broken). The safety on a 1911 does not, it leaves the gun “cocked and locked.” CZ-75s come two different ways, with a safety and with a decocker. The safety-ed CZ-75 does not decock the gun, thus it resembles a 1911 (except that the trigger is double action), but if you buy the model with the decocker, well, the decocker unsurprisingly decocks it…and does NOT put the gun on safe. You can decock the gun then immediately fire it without manipulating a control (other than the trigger).
I’m not a fan of decockers, but the CZ did it very well IMHO, the decocker drops the hammer to a half-cocked state, rather than a fully down state, so that first pull is not quite as hard as it could be. But it does drive 1911 people nuts, because they’ll push on the lever to take the gun off safe…and decock it instead.
You have no business posing as an Interwebs gun writer if you think Glocks are single-action. There is a trigger “reset” function that happens when you rack the slide (or the slide recoils after firing) but this DOES NOT put tension on the striker spring, or in any way cock or pre-cock the gun. Glocks, by definition, are DOUBLE-ACTION ONLY. There’s no need for a de-cocker because NOTHING CAN BE COCKED.
Maybe you should apply for work as a legislation writer for some Congressional Dimocrat. They don’t know anything about guns either, so you’d fit right in.
I have not read all 165 or so comments but that may be a good thing as I like to say things plainly and without influence from another’s comments. To the one who originally wrote this post, I completely agree with you one finding what pistol best suits you however, you mentioned being a new gun owner. I can tell you from years and years of handling pistols that you have to train before you find your proper grip. Glock aren’t for everyone and I have no issue with that. I am a huge fan of Glock though. I own many of them and I am a certified Glock Armorer. I am also an NRA Certified Pistol Instructor.The great thing about Glocks is that they are workhorses. If you service your Glock properly(Seldom needs anything) then you will always have firepower at your fingertips. Carrying a firearm with it on ready is something that you learn from a lot of training. Although you aren’t comfortable with it, it is the proper way to concealed carry. Reason: No situation has a timeout. No crminal is going to “hold on” while you ready your gun. from draw to trigger pull, you should only be taking less than a second. This will leave your attacker defensless because of that one factor: No criminal EXPECTS you to fight back. Most (and there are exceptions to this I am sure) criminals will pick weak targets. They look for those that they believe to be the easiest picking therefore that split second where he tells you to get on your knees or whatever their approach may be, is probably the only chance you will have to draw, fire and eliminate the threat. Again, this is something you learn after a lot of training. Glocks WILL NOT fire unless you have pressed the trigger. the trigger pull makes a difference but the NYPD had a study done to determine how much trigger pull was exerted when under a high stress situation. They found an outragous number (40-70lbs of force) This lead to the “New York Trigger” which comes in a 8lb and a 12lb pull. I love most things that go boom so I am not kocking any type of pistol but carrying in the ready position should be someting that you learn to do. After having to listen to an audio recording of a mother and her son get sliced up and ultimately murdered in their own home, the last thing you want for yourself or your family is to not be prepared. Hope this helps.
I tried most of the popular handguns since getting my permit in 1983 and agree with the Author that the TDA is best for me.
you seem to be unaware of Glock SRT (Short Trigger Reset) where after the first pull, you need only release the trigger a bit and it can be fired again with a shorter, faster and Lighter trigger pull. So not “each and every” trigger pull is 5.5lbs, just the first.
You sound like someone who has little to no experience with Glocks.
Also, Glocks never need to be decocked. Decocking is for outdated old school pistols like 1911s.
Glocks have a striker ‘safety’ block which prevents the firing pin from ever touching a round unless the trigger is pulled. So long silly decocker.
Sorry, friend, but you’re wrong. Yes, every Glock trigger pull is 5.5 lb; the reset just gets rid of the travel. Once you get to the wall (which takes no effort) the point at which it breaks (and the force required) does not change.
Wow not much truth to the arguments in this.
First a striker-fired gun is not single action. They are more of a 1 1/2 action. The hammer partially cocks the striker (approximately 1/2 cock) then the trigger press finishes the cocking of the striker and releases it. This is why they will not fire unless the trigger is pressed. The spring does not have enough behind it to be able to strike the primer hard enough to go off.
The discussion of where the gun points vs all of your other guns because of the grip angle is also very flawed. Glocks and 1911’s have the same grip angle (17.5 degrees if i remember correctly). The lower setting of the slide due to no hammer can result in some difference but if you put the gun in and parallel to your line of sight you will get a hit.
On the range most (if not all) of the negligent discharges i have seen have some from traditional double actions due to the inconsistency of the trigger weight and someone forgetting to utilize the fine motor skills of decocking or using a manual safety.
I can tell you why I don’t like Glock’s and Striker fired hand guns in general. Failure to feed. I have had Glocks fail on me because I was told I soft wrist them. SOFT WRIST? Really, in a self defense situation you may not have time to place both feet correctly, place both hands correctly and then become stiff as a board to fire.
I want a hand gun that when I unholster it, it will fire in any condition or situation every time. My H&K USP and Walther work every time, rain, shine, sleet, soft wrist, two finger shots or what ever. This Soft Wrist is an excuse made up by Glock for a crappy frame.
ANY semi auto can be “limp” or “soft” wristed. It’s not a matter of one or 2 hands, it’s a matter of grasping the handgun in a firm firing grip whether it’s with one or both hands. On a draw (in my case), there’s about 2 tenths of a second difference between achieving a one hand hold and a two hand hold when drawing from a holster. Long story short, it’s about practice. With enough practice, some things become unconscious actions.
That said, gen 4 Glocks are over sprung.
The premise is incorrect. A Glock is not “cocked” until the trigger is pulled. In other words, the trigger pulls the firing pin back causing tension until it reaches the distance required to release the pin forward into the cap. It essentially “decocks” when the trigger reaches the required distance. This guy only thinks he knows what he is talking about which discredits his whole article.
sorry but i wouldnt have a glock ,,a hammer fired auto if you must call it that with cocking and half cocking ability . i carry at half cock and safety on. , if things get a bit strange i might pre slip the safety off and rely on the half cock and full cock it as i draw ..single action revolver shooters ,(cowboys) are quite good at it and it can be learned . as a combat veteran of Korea i carried a balester molena .45 as a side back up to my carbine or rifle , i bought from an english soldier ,,its like a 1911 only no grip safety.. i carried it hammer down safety off and would cock as i drew .never had much need for this ,my long arm usually sufficed . and was not in constant combat . the one time i used my 45 for defense had plenty of time to put it into action ,and hunkererd in a shell hole fired the whole clip at an approaching chinaman with a long mosin with a long bayonet comming toward me as i fired the last round i thought why the hell did i leave my carbine back in the jeep? and just then a limey with a 303 , (probably) dropped the chink .as I was an EOD tech ,was TDY a lot to Britt and related units on the front a lot and things were often quite interesting up there but i felt quite safe with my balester 45 at lowered hammer and could cock as id draw if needed to.by the way ill be 83 the last of august and still kicken and shooten.
Glock: Have the 19 Gen 3 first one I have ever owned nice pistol but it just feels wrong in my hand and when I go to aim barrel is canted upward I know you train to zero faster but why in the world would Glock not change pistol angle then no problem with that.
XD-9 subcomp: Have one and it feels great in my hand and on aiming zeroes fast!
Carry issue cocked round chambered: Why in the world would anyone except law-enforcement/military need to have a round racked lock n loaded position! Your just setting yourself up for accident. It takes 2 seconds to chamber for a civilian or home owner and will save from accidental discharge from ignorance, accidental or otherwise. The likelihood of you needing that fast of defensive response is very low in most carry incidents someone is not going to walk up to you for a gun fight or drawing contest. Just my 2 cents. I NEVER have a round chambered EVER! unless I’m going into a life threatening situation like cops are always in life threatening every moment and military on active duty. No round chambered solves all the arguments of WHAT IF Striker fire/Da/single etc etc?
You’re gambling that, if you need your gun, that you will have the time to chamber the round and/or the ability. You may already have a disabled arm from a gunshot or stabbing or maybe a fall. These are things you need to keep in mind.
Cameron, trading off one gamble for another, I gotta agree with M44Soldier; it takes less than 2 seconds to chamber a round. Casual carry of an already loaded chamber by non-leo or military personnel is an accident waiting to happen and thus poses the greater danger than the remote scenario of a broken arm and such.
What’s more, being able to chamber a round with one arm was a required task in the Army back when they had .45s.
What is your “casual carry” (whatever the hell that means) fixation?
Your “LEO” heroes are the ones having negligent discharges left and right.
Larry, I’d argue that a soldier might have less need of a handgun than just about anybody.
I’m curious as to what makes you think that an LEO is somehow more qualified than a non LEO civilian?
Not necessarily more qualified, just more danger prone. Note the word “casual” carry. LEOs are duty bound and more likely to confrontation than casual carry citizens. Yes, qualified citizens should carry, but no, don’t carry chambered if you’re just going to Walmart. I, for one, can rack a slide lighting quick and with one arm if need be and do not carry chambered (with rare exception).
Just because you’re not competent enough to carry with a round in the chamber, don’t suggest your nonsense to others.
If you’re carrying, why would you say “don’t carry chambered if you’re going to Wal Mart”? Going by your logic, why carry at all, then?
As for your “lightning quick” slide-racking, I sincerely hope you never have to try that idiocy in real life.
Ok, I needed the clarification on that because, in my experience, the average LEO does not have enough dedication to manual of arms to put them ahead of anyone in the civilian world.
Now, to me, a gun with an empty chamber is a paperweight. Period. If you don’t have enough confidence in your equipment to carry with a loaded chamber, barring design flaws, then you should probably find different equipment that is better suited to you. That’s great that this works for you, but do you really think that is going to be a feasibility of you have an attacker on top of you or if you’re fighting him off with your left hand? 2 seconds is more than enough time for him to see it coming and try to get it. I’m not picking on you, just giving food for thought.
This is not a fault of the gun. The gun is an inanimate object. A Glock will never discharge itself. So stop blaming the gun for your inadequate training devotion.
I’m sorry didn’t mean to start a heated debate but let me tell you a reality because I have lived 51 years and served doesn’t mean my way is the right way. I’m just saying that if you think about being attacked that’s great it could very well happen. Now lets be logical when or if you get attacked in my opinion the perpetrator will either get a solid “drop” on you or he will not get a solid drop on you. In the military there is a term we use “did they get the drop on you”. Meaning their pistol is pointing at you, came up behind you, surprise and if you go to draw your weapon the drop is already on you “period” and they have the upper advantage wither your carrying locked rock and ready to rock or just carrying a rock! If you think your fast enough to draw on what I call someone getting a “drop” on you if your pistol is loaded or not lock n loaded the perp still has the upper hand and you could just be the loser! Sure someone could come up behind you with a baseball bat and hit you in the head. If I’m carrying my pistol I’m NOT going to draw my weapon and kill the guy I’m going to proceed with trying to kick his ass if I can because the moment you draw that pistol you had better be in fear for your life I’m not going to take a chance with the local DA. If someone attacks and their unarmed without any heat on them I may not be justified under the law to fear for my life and use lethal force with a baseball bat incident. At least not in my state. 2 reasons I carry NOT CHAMBERED and I have a handgun license for 10 years now to carry open I still carry concealed. #1 They don’t know I have “heat” on me and I have confidence I can get a round chambered and on a zero kill if and this is a big “if” I’m trained think fast does this person have the “drop” on me? If he does it doesn’t matter what loaded condition my pistol is in. If he does at this point he doesn’t know I’m carrying “heat” I just might get the chance to take me 2 seconds lock n load and I’m train to shoot on the move he’s going to be supine waiting on EMS. If he doesn’t have a solid drop lock he’s DRT “Dead Right There” #2 I have a child at home and with us all the time when we go out on the town I would rather take a chance needing 2 extra seconds with any scenario than live the rest of my life with the remorse my pistol accidentally discharging hitting my child or some innocent bystander. So to conclude in my opinion it doesn’t matter if a LEO/Civilian/Military grunt is at the ready round chambered if someone gets the drop on you your in trouble. It’s all about getting the “drop” and if your open carrying your really setting yourself up because they see the gun come right up behind your national championship 45 auto muscled up vascular container and your NOT getting your gun out of your holster on that sad day. Police officers open carry and they are in my opinion easier prey by a trained operator or even a perp. If you can see the weapon you can zero in on it and make calculated decisions on your attack. This is why officers really need their pistol at the ready lock n loaded. If you carry concealed you really have the upper hand. Carrying a pistol is a thinking mans game and I have seen and experienced a lot of real life incidents. I will make a long true story short: Woman has CCL she pulls into 7eleven to get gas. 4 black guys pull up beside the store and jump out with guns. She draws down on them with her Glock 19 approaching from the gas pumps. Turned out the 4 black guys were all FBI agents coming in on a bust on a perp. The woman lost her license and was publicly humiliated. As I said its carry and gun is a thinking mans game. When you chamber and make your move you better not draw that pistol unless your in immediate danger and fear for your life and or your families life. I just choose to have my mags loaded and bullets right were their available for ready to enter the chamber its just a personal preference I’m not saying its wrong for you to do it. I can’t have a dangerous weapon lock n loaded all the time. There is a time for it and a time not to in my opinion. But if your comfortable doing it all the time that’s why we live in a free country. Stay safe fellows.
I don’t really see this as a heated discussion. What I have I have seen throughout the comments (not you, but others), is a wild tendency for people to blame the hardware when it’s actually a training issue. No gun is going to be 100% safe if sloppy gun handling enters into the equation.
Now, there was a day in age when I thought a Glock was a good beginners gun, but I’ve changed my mind over the years. I now think Glocks and 1911s should be treated as advanced level handguns and only to be used by people who are willing to become truly proficient with them. I would also suggest that if someone is uncomfortable with a round in the chamber of a Glock, then maybe a traditional hammer fired DA/SA or DAO handgun would be a better idea.
Your right absolutely 100% people need to stop blaming their hardware. When you train your muscles have whats called “Muscle Memory” if you just keep your training up the “Muscle Memory” will save your life under stress. And when your under that stress your adrenaline is going to kick in and it helps you complete your mission or goal to end a conflict/attack. I agree with you a Glock’1911 are serious weapons designed for competent individuals. Dummies are going to get killed or kill someone with them.
One other quick note on Glocks. I have always used 1911s they feel so darn good in your hand! When you hold one the weight and the feel of the pistol grip is amazing. My first handgun however was a Ruger P-85 and I got in 1987 and at the time I didn’t realize they were competing for the military contract. But I wish I had never sold it I got in a money bind and need some cash. But you know that pistol really shot good was accurate as all get out and the price was $350 when I bought it and I really felt like Ruger got the shaft on that military contract and Beretta won it. I qualified with a Beretta when I was in the military It shoots great just still never like it. Qualified with a 1911 and it was better scores. Then after all these years my wife got me a Glock 19 Gen 3 2 years ago and you know I have NEVER shot it! Like I said it feels all wrong when I hold it and I practice just free drawing without firing and its always canted upward. So I keeped it though because of just want to be able to say yea! I got a Glock! Now I’m on to a XD9sub I got and its really kinda dummy proof not to say I’m a dummy because I a have handle a lot of firearms. Its got all these safety features and Its shoots dead on man its a tac driver for a 3″ barrel I’m impressed. I have heard a lot of people bring up the same issue with the Glock handle angle and it amazes me why Glock couldn’t just change it. Maybe I just need to go outside in my pasture were I shoot and give it a try. But I have to say striker fire weapons kind of concern me. The XD I have is the only one I have trusted to shoot.
I used 1911s for 15 years and probably averaged 1000 rds a year through them. Early this year, I tried a Gen 4 Glock 19. Once I adjusted to the grip angle, I discovered it was the first Glock I could run with a proper firing grip. My draw times dropped marginally but my reloads dropped almost a full second. My accuracy was equal. As soon as I determined how much quicker I was on my reloads with it, I went to the Glock. I have an an XDm .40 that I retrofitted a Bar Sto .357 Sig barrel to and it’s great but I don’t run it nearly as well as the Glock. I may actually part with it and replace it with a Glock 32.
I have noticed the Glock mags come out really fast and the button release is ergonomically designed very well. They also go back in really smooth. From what I understand they have an octagonal rifling in the twist of their barrels and their really accurate. I read somewhere were most violent incidents with handguns happen with 4 rounds or less something like that can’t remember exact data. In my humble opinion I believe a 7 round 1911 type pistol is a great carry pistol if you get one subbed down and carry extra mag. In military conflicts more ammo could mean the difference facing your enemy. On the streets of America I believe a 1911 will end a conflict with the 14 rounds. If you can’t get it done with 14 maybe people feel they need 30 rounds available I guess. Now if SHTF someday I will go with my higher capacity mag pistols as your going to need all the lead you can load. There are so many variables I believe it just comes down to a personal preference. I just like handguns all types but prefer certain models and people need to find out what works for them and what is the safest for them depending on level of experience they have. I believe a woman new to handgun defense should start out with a 38 snub nose. When they get more confident move up from there. My wife has a Colt Government Pocket Light her dad bought her in 1995 and I’m always having to reenterate her training. In 3 months she forgets everything I show her and its back to square one. I think she just needs a 38 snub nose and I am seriously considering it.
The cartridge count debate is an interesting one, though not typically the reason I opt for 2 spares and not just one. I figure the 2nd spare is in case of a double feed malfunction. Though, there was a case about 13 years ago in Pierce County Washington where a deputy put 15 rounds into the center mass of an offender and the guy was still fighting paramedics when they put him on the stretcher. I also know of an instance where a guy walked into a gas station and straight into a hold up, watched the store clerk get shot, drew his own Colt Commander, and emptied it into the shooter only to have to reload and continue engaging.
So the round count argument is so cut and dried as we like to think, sadly.
Yes you bring up a good point on incidents where the bad guy just doesn’t seem to drop on center mass shots. I mean who wants to lug around a 44 mag or 357 mag for Carry use which I would think drop them cold but those revolvers are heavy. I was trained in the military to go for center mass shots but now that I’m out and have to train on my own I have been training and practicing for head shots! I really focus on about 10-15 meter head shots and not a target traced of a man silhouette . More centered toward a solid head shot at you know around 10 yards out to 15 yards and even fast draws at 5 yards on the head shots. I have really gotten into Snipers lately wished I would have went out for that when i first joined I was a “combat medic” but I’m into the ideology of “one shot one kill” with head shots. That’s how I practice now.
I am a retired Army officer and carried the M1911A1 for years until, of course, they took it away and gave me the Beretta POS. But both were DA/SA and what my comrades and I practiced was carrying it decocked and when drawing it, thumb cocking the hammer as we brought it up. It doesn’t take a lot of practice and you don’t have that heavy trigger pull to contend with on the first shot.
Actually, the 1911 is single action only.
You couldn’t be more inaccurate; there is no “heavy trigger pull” on a 1911, as it is Single Action only.
Secondly, what you described doing is incredibly ridiculous and dangerous: you don’t draw a 1911 and cock the hammer with your thumb; it could slip, discharging a round.
Cocking the hammer with your thumb, then it slips will not make the pistol go off. DA/SA guns have a firing pin block, that requires the trigger to be pulled. They also have a half-cocked position that will stop the hammer from falling on the firing pin.
What about accidental discharges due to dropping/impact? Recently a motorcycle rider in my home state was hit from the rear and his concealed carry gun discharged in the process. The media didn’t mention specifics on the firearm in question. It seems to me that a de-cocked hammer fire design is safer than a hot striker fired pistol. My guess is that the poor MC rider was carrying a Glock.
You would be very wrong. Glocks and all modern pistols have internal safety mechanisms to prevent the firing pin from striking the primer until and unless the trigger is pulled. Modern revolvers have a block too. That being said, mechanical devices can fail. But you need to learn a little about how a pistol operates. A Glock (and lots of other fine pistols) is an excellent carry pistol as it can be carried safely with a round in the chamber. Your description of a “Hot striker” indicates you have no knowledge of the internal mechanisms.
As you suggest, I certainly am not an expert on firearms but I am an engineer with knowledge of internal systems and an owner of numerous pistols. Here is an excerpt from a much older discussion forum on Glock safety: “All mechanical systems can fail and in this case we are trusting a lot to a small engagement of two pieces of cheap molded plastic. Apart from that the firing pin safety can get stuck in the up position if it gets too dirty, the firing pin/cruciform engagement can be insecure if it has been modified and/or damaged so that there is a very small engagement but this combination would also probably need a soft primer to fire.” I realize Glock has improved it’s design since its initial failure of the DEA “frisbee test” but I simply feel that other manufacturers do a better overall job. There are lots of Glocks out there and I’m not bashing them. I just think there are better designs options.
Your guess would be completely wrong; you know nothing about which you speak.
A Glock is not “cocked” at rest. As the slide moves forward into its home position (into battery), there is partial tension placed on the striker lug, in order to prevent it from having any looseness or play, which could wear on components while carrying, and to help shorten the trigger pull distance. However, that 5.5 lb pressure you have to put on the trigger over it’s half-inch distance when firing…? That’s almost entirely the additional tension you’re putting on the striker, as it’s retracted against the striker spring, and before it’s released by the sear. The rest of the tension you feel comes from the relatively light trigger return spring and friction among the moving parts. Further, a hammer-fired weapon, whether the hammer hits a pin or has the pin attached to the hammer, is still hammer-fired, not striker-fired. Think of the striker-fired mechanism as a crossbow, and a hammer-fired mechanism as, well, a hammer and spike. They’re quite distinct. Finally, as I’ve just described, a Glock is not single action. Because of how the system works, where pulling the trigger retracts the striker against a spring, it is necessarily a double action only system. Pulling the slide back to its trigger reset point does just that – it resets the trigger by placing the striker lug behind the sear, and nothing more. If a Glock’s grip angle and trigger weight are issues for a shooter, by all means, become accustomed to it or choose another weapon; but the decision shouldn’t be based on misinformation or misunderstanding of what the weapon is or how it works. As an aside, Diamondback’s DB9 and DB380, for example, also striker-fired weapons, both have a zero-tension striker system, where the trigger movement controls the entire rearward movement of the striker, from its rest position to its release position. There isn’t any pre-tension placed on it by forward slide movement. When resetting the trigger, the striker is set back behind the striker safety, but not put under any appreciable tension by the striker spring. Other manufacturers, such as Smith and Wesson, make striker-fired models that have their strikers pulled most of the way back after chambering a round. In that case, they look like single action systems, because the trigger only releases the striker; however, because that tension is put on the striker automatically as the slide recoils and resets, they are still double action only.
As a newbie to pistols I’m trying to determine what handgun to buy as my first. This really decided something that I was debating about…. getting a striker-fired pistol with/without a safety.
Thanks for your writeup.
what a silly article
Glocks are junk !
1911 “condition 1” (cocked and locked)
If it ain’t broken…don’t try to fix it
And Glocks are just ugly.
Just keep your booger-hook off the bang switch until you are on target, and all is good.
Seems to me that you just do not like Glock pistols
I also do not like the grip angle, but allegedly the Gen4 models have addressed that.
I found the 4.5″ Springfield XDm to fit my hands nicely, and having the beavertail safety may be something you enjoy too.
I am not a fan of external hammer pistols, I have had debris fall in between the hammer and the transfer bar, and in a panic situation such as defending myself, I do not want anything that could prevent the gun from going bang when I do grab the bang switch with my booger hook.
Glocks are as safe as any gun because gun safety depends 100% on you, not the gun…
Accuracy, ruggedness, cost, LIGHTWEIGHT and extreme RELIABILITY, are all traits that Glock pistols offer. Many hammer fired pistols offer some, but few offer all.
So, I guess you don’t like Glocks. Why should what fits your needs affect anyone else’s choice?
Never had to worry about it, only ever carried a revolver of some sort.
Most of the people showing up to basic handgun and concealed carry classes these days are bringing newly-purchased semi-autos, often Glocks. Unfortunately, I see revolvers being only about 10% of the guns used in the basic classes these days. There is something very wrong with that from a safety standpoint.
After having personally witnessed ADs and NGs with Glocks and other semi-autos, I am now of the opinion that the majority of gun owners should stick with revolvers. The problem with this LONG discussion on the safety merits of Glocks versus other semi-autos is that it is mostly academic for the average gun owner. It is being carried out by gun owners who could be classified as experts, gunsmiths, competitive shooters, or those who shoot regularly. That is NOT the majority of gun owners. Most of them don’t understand (or can’t remember) the difference between DA, SA, DOA, selective DA, safe action, etc. They are often confused by the differences between safeties and decockers. ADs often happen by them not clearing the chamber. For them, IMO owning a Glock is dangerous. Not just due to the relatively light 5.5lb trigger pull, but also because they tend to make other dumb semi-auto mistakes that lead to ADs. Putting in the 8 lb New York trigger helps prevent one problem, but not all the others.
All this is also true of ANY semi-auto pistol in the hands of the AVERAGE gun owner. I get nervous now when I see people show up at the range with the latest new semi-auto pistols. I notify the range officer and leave at the first sign of ANY confusion on their part or slight safety violation – which is often. But the gun magazines, gun writers, and gun stores push pistols so much over revolvers, that the person wanting to just get a basic self defense firearm winds up buying a pistol that is too complicated for them to be safe. Yes, I know semi-autos are not complicated for YOU reading this, but believe me, even a Glock is for non-mechanically-inclined people – and unfortunately that is the majority of the U.S. population these days. Heck, most people I know don’t even understand the basics of how an automobile works.
In contrast to semi-auto pistols, it is much easier to teach the average person how to safely handle a revolver. No safeties, no decockers, no leaving a round in the chamber after the magazine is removed. Instead with a revolver — Gun pointed down in a safe direction, finger off the trigger, quick swing out of the cylinder to check if it is loaded. Easy, peasy. About a 10lb DA pull and 4lb SA pull. And you’ve got to cock the trigger to get that light SA pull. People can understand the basics in about 15 minutes of instruction.
The concept of the Glock and DOA pistols has merit as an attempt to “de-complicate” the semi-auto for general use. However, the revolver is still superior as the safest firearm for the average person. The best illustration I can give for this is that I can teach a young or elderly new shooter to safely handle a revolver in one session, but with a semi-auto, the next time I see them, we have to go over the operation all over again.
And we are all going to get old and not be as sharp as before. I have talked to great shooters who, in later years, eventually sold all their semi-auto pistols and stuck with one 38 Special revolver for self defense. Easy peasy.
A Pistol is inherently Dangerous when loaded, more so when supposedly unloaded, the most basic safety is between the ears! With out proper information and instruction that processor becomes GIGO! In essence it does not matter an Iota weather the firearm has a Hammer or striker style ignition system, auto or revolver part of the problem is most people do not have a opportunity to handle and compare all the various weapons available nor is Training always available, so what is the basis of choice? mostly from their friends and or relatives, then again you have exceptions! after you become more acquainted with firearms you develop your own pet likes and dislikes! I dislike striker fire weapons which is a personnel choice and does not mean that they are more or less prone to being safe! Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing except opinions get in the way!
Loaded glock 17 3rd gen cocked n ready with a lower site range. But I do like my DA better but love my glock
Glock makes a Model 22 in what they call “Safe Action” which is Glocks name for “Double Action Only”. If you must own a Glock, this is by far the safest one to own.
Errrrrrr …. ALL GLOCKs are Safe Action (DAO) so get any of them, learn to operate it and you will be safe. Or buy any gun, go to the range once or twice, stick it in a drawer until a BG comes and you will be UNSAFE.
Did I hit a nerve Karl ? Having anger issues ? Maybe you should think twice about owning a gun.
Just trying to correct the misinformation (abundant in this thread 🙂 that only one model of Glock is “Safe action”. All Glocks operate the same.
Take a close look at the Glock striker/firing pin. The slide brings it back and it catches on the something-or-other (not sure what the technical name for it is) and it’s held partially to the rear or “pre-cocked” at that point. Without the movement of the slide, pulling the trigger does nothing because the striker isn’t “pre-cocked.” With a DAO nothing is pre-cocked by pulling the slide back. The hammer or firing pin is cocked and released with the pull of the trigger.
The DAO pistols are not cocked until you pull the trigger. There is nothing to decock so you don’t need a decocking lever. There’s too many controls on the oldschool pistols you like. They are just extra parts to break.
Interesting and factually incorrect. It is not cocked when carried.
The guy who wrote the article about Glocks is obviously, and clearly a very uninformed novice.
Glocks are double action, stated by the factory nomenclature and I agree.
ANY handgun can go off in your clothing if you are careless and/or stupid.
Glocks, in the hands of an “expert”, are the safest handguns in the world.
Novices really should not be permitted to have such journalistic freedom when it involves firearms.
This rather poor, innocent, misguided soul kept droning on and on about a topic he is not qualified to comment on or even have an opinion about. These folks truly insult those of us who are the real deal, and who are extremely well versed and experienced with firearms! Stick to something you may actually know a little about, such as manipulating the TV remote.
But the trigger pull on a Glock is still lighter than say on a true DAO like the S&W 380 Bodyguard and even with that heavier initial pull, I still would not feel comfortable unless the safety was also engaged.
Face it: the safest gun is the one with two or more actions required to make it fire. Doing so may make it harder to use it when it’s needed but the odds of an AD are greater than are the odds that you will ever use it. This is because you carry it every day and each day is an AD waiting to happen but you don’t need it every day.
With a safety engaged, two actions are required to fire it. With no round chambered, again, two actions are required to make it fire. With no round in the chamber and a safety engaged, three actions are required to fire it. All three of these methods of carry are safer than just relying on a strong trigger pull to prevent discharge.
Why are you writing articles if you have no idea what you’re talking about? A Sig with a hammer (or any other gun with a hammer) is not “striker-fired” because the hammer “hits a striker rod, which ultimately is the thing that hits the primer, igniting the round”. “Striker rod”???
You don’t even know what a firing pin is called? Hammer-fired and striker-fired are two completely different things. A hammer hitting a firing pin is not “striker-fired”.
Back in the Jurassic Period, the LAPD used Smith & Wesson Model 15 revolvers. Some cops had the bad habit of cocking their revolvers to show suspects they were REALLY serious. The chief ordered the armorers to file off the single-action notches on the hammers, so they could only be fired double-action. In addition, the double-action trigger pull had to be 11 pounds or more.
Admittedly, this may have been an over-reaction. But as I recall, ADs or NDs were rare. And with a revolver, there was much less “spray and pray.” You had six rounds, and reloads were slower. Fewer rounds were fired, meaning fewer rounds to go astray and endanger others. But hey, I’m probably getting senile.
I’m guessing they bobbed the hammer too? Because they could still pull it back than it wouldn’t lock and they’d fire the pistol
Telling people that avoiding an AD is as simple as “keeping your finger off the trigger” is not only condescending, it is massively naive. AD”s are not just from people pulling a trigger by mistake any more than car accidents are just from drivers steering into an object or another vehicle. Some of the most tragic AD’s have been by highly trained professionals and experienced firearms handlers. Life has a way of being messy and imperfect, despite all the training and confidence one might have. Things beyond our control DO happen.
It doesn’t take a physicist to know that the less force or resistance required to move something, the more likely it is to be moved, just as more force to move = lower likelihood of moving.
If I choose to carry precision explosives in a device designed to ignite said explosives (live ammo in a firearm) on my body, you can bet I will choose to reduce the likelihood (heavier trigger pull )of said explosive being set off by anything other than my own intentions. All the training and self confidence in the world cannot prevent all accidents, so please don’t be so smug as to think (and say) that not pulling the trigger is “the” way to avoid AD’s.
Things happen. If the author (or I) feel that a longer and/or heavier trigger pull offers a bit more security via requiring more force to discharge our weapons, who is to begrudge us that extra sense of security? We are not idiot-proofing our guns at all, just stacking the odds, if only a tiny bit, against an accident beyond our control.
So then why not also engage the safety??
I wouldn’t like having ANY gun in a pocket that only requires a trigger pull to discharge it, regardless if that’s a 4 lb pull or a 12 lb pull as in some DAO guns or a revolver. That doesn’t mean I would never carry one of these, only that if I did I would carry it in a more secure method. The author seemed to exclude carrying a striker fired gun without first exploring those other alternatives. Yes it means an additional step required to fire it but so does the authors method where he carries a weapon decocked.
How about carrying the Glock 42 with nothing in the chamber? VERY safe against an AD and yes, it does necessitate a rack and trigger pull before firing but for the average concealed carry person it does permit this gun to be carried in a very safe manner. And if there are striker fired guns out there with a safety, you can still carry them in a very safe manner by engaging the safety.
bottom line: in general I agree that for whatever reason if there is already one in the chamber I either want a trigger I can decock or a safety but with a Glock 42 there will only be one in the chamber if you intentionally put it there or if it was already fired. Either way there is a way around this to make it safe: 1) don’t put one in the chamber unless it’s needed and 2) once it’s been fired, remove the clip and eject the round in the chamber. But to exclude any gun before first exploring and mentioning these work arounds, is not complete staff work. Just my opinion.
OK! I can not believe this debate is still going. If any of you read the original post you’d realize as I did that the guy who wrote it is clueless when it comes to firearms. So this will be my final posting here and really it should just be the last ever posting as I’m going to put this to bed. It does NOT matter what type of firearm you want whether it be striker fire with no external safety or a hammer fire with an external safety it’s all completely irrelevant. It requires human interaction for a negligent discharge to take place. These types of negligent discharges can happen with whatever type of firearms you own. In fact where I live a police officer recently shot them selves in the foot using a semiauto Smith that has all the safeties that you people claim to be safer. Now can you guess the reason given for the negligent discharge??? That’s right lack of training!!! So let’s get things very clear if you are lucky enough to carry which many of you are (I’m not I’m Canadian 🙁 ) then the answer to this conundrum is really simple. Choose whatever firearm you like and TRAIN with it. Whatever firearm you choose it should feel like an extension of your own arms before you decide to carry it. Train the way you intend to use it. I’m not going to argue over what level of readiness your firearm should be. That up to you, if you want to have a hammer fire pistol with a round in the chamber and the safety on then go for it, just train your self that way. Plain and simple. If you want to carry without a round in the chamber by all means do that like I say it’s up to you. The most important thing is that you train to use your firearm properly. Don’t just go to the gun store or local pawn shop and buy a gun to throw in your purse or in a holster, train with it and learn to use it. Whatever firearm you decide on, operating it should be like second nature if it is you won’t have negligent discharges.
For those who want to pocket carry their Glocks safely, Fobus makes a great trigger holster that only covers the trigger guard, completely blocking access to the trigger until the gun is drawn and the guard is removed or pulled free by a lanyard. Pocket carry is the only deep concealment method that I have found to be comfortable and satisfactory so far. IWB just does not work for me, and you have to wear too much cover for any OWB.
If you really want to rail against a gun design, consider the Walther PPQ. 5# trigger pull, SA, and no manual safety and of course no hammer or de-cocker. Sweetest , smoothest trigger pull in the business but I would be afraid to carry with one in the chamber.
Buy a gun, several good ones available, that have a manual safety. Most NA’s and DA’s occur when reholstering. Now you do not have this problem. Also this allows carry with a round in chamber. Manual safeties are very easy to operate and do not interfere with the guns use or timing.
What’s the big fuss about semi-automatic handgun !?
Get a Beretta PX 4 Storm ! That’s most of the U.S. Military &
Law Enforcements’ choice of conceal carry. Here’s why:
Safety & De-Cocker in one button. Fast & Easy to disengage the safety. I always chamber mine with the safety on. If I need to fire my Beretta PX4 Storm, I would just push the “safety off” with my thumb then squeeze the trigger DA then subsequent fires are automatically SA (feather touch). Or I have the option “to cock” (i.e. SA ready) the hammer for feather touch & accurate shot. To “de-cock” simply engage the “safety”. This type of BERETTA is recoiless-designed. It comes with 3 sizes:
FULL SIZE, COMPACT & SUB-COMPACT. Mine is 9mm and I use 135 grain, 124 grain or 115 grain with no issues. This BERETTA PX4 STORM is tested to sustain over 1/2 million rounds at the range, with no issues. Pricewise, very reasonable at less than $ 700. Made in Italy distributed by BERETTA USA.
“the idea of carrying a cocked weapon that close to my body makes me mighty uncomfortable. It’s a personal thing that may not bother you, but it bothers me.”
Not too personal- its Physics 102- stored mechanical energy. It WILL get released. I’m in manufacturing and you have to watch every machine has expended its mechanical energy. A 250 ton press can behead you like its the French revolution- and even nastier things have happened to people’s other appendages.
Some of the info in this article is just plain wrong.
All the take up in a Glock trigger you feel on the way to where the trigger is actually at, is the cocking of the striker. If the trigger isn’t pulled back to that point, there is little tension on the striker and what little there is is retained by the striker block. To release this, the trigger must be pulled. So, if you don’t want a Glock to fire, do not pull the trigger, which is better that a gun you really NEED to fire, but it won’t because the safety is on.
Glocks are just as safe as the people who carry them and all the ND’s we hear about are not a fault of the pistol at all, but due to a mistake of the operator.
I must agree with “Old Man.” As a Professional Police Officer, I absolutely love the Glock! I’ve carried and shot many different Revolvers and Semi Automatic Pistols. Out of all the guns that I own and have owned the Glock ranks #1 for me.
I can assure you that Police Departments that choose the Glock as their standard issued service pistol train their Officers to carry the weapon chamber loaded (cocked) and ready to fire. If I get into a gun fight, I want the weight of the first trigger pull to be as consistent as the subsequent ones.
Your fear of carrying a “cocked” gun close to your body is simply a lack of experience and can be over-come by more training and confidence. However, always respect the gun and respect the most important safety rule in gun safety, (KEEP YOUR FINGER AWAY FROM THE TRIGGER) until you’re ready to destroy whatever the threat is.
I hope this helps build your confidence in “Striker Fired” guns.
This is a very poorly written article, just terrible. Your lack of knowledge and bias are extremely misleading.
1) ‘Most of the Glocks that I have seen are single action meaning that the gun is cocked by racking the slide and the only way to de-cock is to pull the trigger.’ Absolutely wrong. When you rack the slide, a Glock is about 1/2 cocked in terms of sufficient spring tension needed to fire a round. The other 1/2 of the cocking action occurs when the trigger is pressed. Glaring misinformation on your part! But, yeah, pulling the trigger will eventually de-cock it alright, right after it fires! You’re dangerous.
Your credibility diminishes significantly when you write, ‘Most of the Glocks…’ They’re not made differently. Same action on every gun in every model.
2) ‘…if I owned a Glock, it wouldd be the one gun that I would have to compensate for when I shoot it.’ ‘Compensate’ has a negative and biased tone. The proper word is ‘adjust’.
3) ‘As with a revolver, you really have to want to pull that trigger to make the gun go bang.’ How is that not true for any firearm? You’re hedging and your lack of discipline is dangerous.
4) In the ideal world, every trigger press would be like the last. Varying trigger resistance between first and second rounds on a revolver is not consistent. Consistency rules the day.
Do your readers a service – suggest you get more experience and educated.
I like Glocks, they are good guns. The first handgun I ever bought myself was a Glock 17 9m 20 years ago. I like that gun, which I have held on to it all these years. I will not sell it, because IT WAS the first handgun I ever bought myself. Anyway, as much as I like my ole 17, I would not IWB carry it(which is my preference for carry). Keeping my finger off the trigger is not the problem or a problem for me. But what is, is knowing I have a gun down my pants, that is more likely to have a ND because something else getting in the trigger guard other then my finger. That unnerves me. To carry, I often look for a gun with an external safety. That’s just me. Call me a wuss or whatever you want, I don’t care what other people say or think.. I have to do whats safe for myself and the people around me.
And yes, I had to first reposition my grip and move my aim over to compensate when I first started shooting it. Now, I would have to go back and do it all over again when I do decide to shoot it again. I tend to shoot the guns I carry now more then ever, so the Glocks sits in the gun safe now.
Hey guys…. Just wanted to add my 2 cents for all it’s worth. When you CC your handgun and your safety factor ( I think it’s more fear) is so high that in a critical life or death situation you have to pull the gun, rack the slide, then drop the safety before you can even think of shooting, guess what…you’re a dead man. Don’t get me wrong I’m all for being safe, as a Marine, a LEO for years and carrying as a civilian for many more I’ve never had an accidental discharge, though always locked and loaded. Simply put and a fact, if I didn’t carry that way I wouldn’t be here to write this. Guns are good…people are bad, live free and safe!!
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I owned an M&P Bodyguard .380 and, contrary to many of the posts here, I think it’s far inferior to my G42. The trigger pull is too long and too heavy on the M&P and the time it takes to release the safety just gives you that much more of a chance of succumbing to an attack. Finally the firing pin broke on it once when I was dry firing and so that was when I went over to Glock. The G43 is a much more robust weapon with less felt recoil and a much better trigger, so I’m more accurate and more comfortable firing it. I carry it in a rigid holster with a round chambered. I keep my finger -and everything else- out of the trigger guard until it’s time to fire, and have no worries.
This article and many of the comments have been entertaining. I’ll cut the newbie author some slack as he was writing his OPINION. That being said, to anyone new to firearms Glocks are great pistols. But the ultimate safety on any firearm is the operator. If you don’t want to fire, keep your finger off the trigger. If you don’t feel “safe” or confident with a cartridge in the chamber get training, practice and repeat. Having a gun without a chambered cartridge is about as useful as holding a stick.
Glock doesn’t have a decocker, because it is never fully cocked. IMHO it is perfectly safe to carry one with chambered round. But I also understand that some people may feel uncomfortable with it, but it does not make glock less safe. Its just about how you feel.
Look guys…..I’ve heard of people who like to try an reinvent the wheel, but what we have here are mostly people trying to explain the wheel! It isn’t rocket science. I can quick draw and fire on target at 15 yrds accurately just about every time in.05-.06 of a second. If I rack an fire for the most part it is still around .09-1.0 seconds. This comes with practice and knowing your handgun of choice no matter what brand it is. Learn your weapon and its capabilities and you will feel safe with it. ND’s are negligence on the gun owners side. Guns will NEVER accidently discharge on their own without YOU handling them. YOU CAN NEVER BLAME IT ON A GUN!!! If I want to carry chambered I know I have .04 of a sec faster response time….does this really matter to the general public…..NOT REALLY! Although most personal self defense attacks happen within 6 feet believe it or not this .04 of a second could save your life……but there is another aspect way more important…”SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.” You should never have let the attacker so close to your space or level of comfort given the situation without being racked or being alert to a possible danger. I carry both racked and non racked depending on threat level. Mostly racked because I am competent with my glocks in my serpa holsters. I cannot recommend enough for you to take basic handgun then advanced handgun classes from a profession. Your sense of security will be elevated enough that these trivial statements that people are chiming in on will sound funny to you. God bless and what ever you shoot….be skilled with your weapon. 12 years metro Dade swat team… Navy Seal team 5 “Sea Bees for life”.
Very good info, I totally agree!!
I wonder how many people all of these experts have actually killed in armed encounters? I will stick with my single action revolver. I have not had to kill anyone yet and none by accident either.
I agree. The polymer striker fired pistols are a no-go in my book. Call me a Sig fan boy, but I’m much more in favor of the DA/SA de-cocker pistols. That’s what I carry. That’s what I use.
Sider lock trigger for glock, I have it on my g17, 27, and 20. It adds a manual safety button on the trigger.
Just cock and lock into the pocket and go about your business, they cost about fifty bucks. Not much for the peace of mind.
I understand the Glock Perfection disclaimer, “keeping your booger hook off the trigger”, but these striker fired pistols are not an every man’s gun. If Glocks are so safe, explain to me how the third grade girl in MN managed to get her finger on the trigger on the cop’s Glock while secured in a level 3 holster?
When the polymer craze hit I thought I wanted an SR 45, but when I picked it up, I felt like I was hold a wooden block. Tried a Glock and felt the same thing and it aimed high for me.
Finally I settled on an M&P 45, it fit my hand perfectly. S&W advertised this pistol as having a DA trigger, but it’s not like any DA trigger I’ve ever pulled. I was hoping for a trigger like the DAO on my S&W 4586, but it’s far removed from that. Why they bother with putting little finger thingys on the trigger seems like more of an advertising ploy, I can’t see what use they are. I really dislike the M&P’s trigger. I mean it’s manageable, but it still sucks.
Locally, a cop shot of a round trying to holster her Glock at the local range. The Des Moines County sheriff managed to blow a .45 cal hole into his hand and house when he tried to clean his Glock at the kitchen table, then a local city cop actually managed to killed a woman during a domestic. 12 seconds lapsed from the time he left his prowler, ’til the woman lie dying at his feet. No, striker fired pistols are not everyman’s gun. The trigger is light with a quick reset. To me it’s no different than walking around with the hammer back on a loaded and holstered six shooter.
Interesting comments. I was wondering if anybody can tell the ratio between the number of Glocks sold and the ADs? It seems to me that’s something to consider.
“I’ll start with a little terminology. I’m going to refer to Glocks and similar guns (XDM, S&W M&P, etc) as “striker fired” guns. Now technically, many automatic pistols are striker fired including my Beretta and Sig Sauers.”
These are not “automatic pistols”, and it’s funny that the author makes this major error while discussing his ensuing use of terminology. I quit reading this at that point.
I totally agree with your thinking on DA/SA cc weapon. I too carry different hand guns depending on the season or where I’m going. I carry both semi auto handguns with external safeties chambered, and decocked, no exposed hammer when decocked. My safety is that first harder trigger pull. First step, just fire! My third handgun, same as my wife is A lightweight 22magnum eight shot revolver, hard trigger pull is our safety on those. The Glock to me is a “in the line of fire” weapon, Law enforcement and military etc. Not being able to decock is dangerous. I think people who own Glocks just like to say they have one. 🙂
Glocks are not fully cocked when in battery. And Ill also presume you dont like 1011s bc they dont decock either?
Thats 1911, typo.
“the external hammer hits a striker rod, which ultimately is the thing that hits the primer”
thats just hammer fired
IMHO hammer fired guns are so much more pleasing to the eyes than striker fired. Some are works of art. What it all really boils down to is what one believes is nice to show off… Once people find the firearm that pleases them, they will support their choice by making arguments not necessarily based on true facts.
Also, anyone who can’t be in full control of their triggers AT ALL TIMES, should not be carrying a firearm in the first place. One should only carry what s/he can safely operate. So in essence, striker, hammer, semi-auto, revolver, polymer, metal, caliber selection, ammo type etc. are all preferences that have little effect on a properly/accurately placed shot. So all this Glock vs Sig talk is childish at best.
Jim, nice article and I appreciate your insights. I was a Glock wholesaler in the 1980’s and 1990’s and not a fan at first. But when shooting at the range, I compared the G17 to the Sig 220 & 226, Beretta 92, Colt 1911, and Browning Hi-Power among others. I had about 5 years of frequent military and sporting training and experience, plus shot with law enforcement occasionally. I owned or carried all of those at one time or another. I shot better with the Glock than the others during various drills and accuracy was on par so I became a Glock enthusiast. Always best to test fire and run some live-fire drills instead of deciding at the display counter whenever possible. I would feel safe carrying any of them with practice, and anyone who EDC carries for duty or concealed should train regularly. Cheers!