Nick’s cobbling together an analysis of today’s announcement re: reg changes for the importation of ex-mil rifles and the modification to NFA trusts. Meanwhile, here’s the anti-gun agit-prop version from whitehouse.gov:
FACT SHEET: New Executive Actions to Reduce Gun Violence
Today, the Obama administration announced two new common-sense executive actions to keep the most dangerous firearms out of the wrong hands and ban almost all re-imports of military surplus firearms to private entities. These executive actions build on the 23 executive actions that the Vice President recommended as part of the comprehensive gun violence reduction plan and the President unveiled on January 16, 2013.
Even as Congress fails to act on common-sense proposals, like expanding criminal background checks and making gun trafficking a federal crime, the President and Vice President remain committed to using all the tools in their power to make progress toward reducing gun violence . . .
Building on the 23 Executive Actions the President and Vice President Unveiled Last January
- Last December, the President asked the Vice President to develop a series of recommendations to reduce gun violence. On January 16, 2013, they released these proposals, including 23 executive actions. With the first Senate confirmation of an ATF Director on July 31, 2013, the Administration has completed or made significant progress on 22 of the 23 executive actions. The new executive actions unveiled today build on this successful effort.
Closing a Loophole to Keep Some of the Most Dangerous Guns Out of the Wrong Hands
- Current law places special restrictions on many of the most dangerous weapons, such as machine guns and short-barreled shotguns. These weapons must be registered, and in order to lawfully possess them, a prospective buyer must undergo a fingerprint-based background check.
- However, felons, domestic abusers, and others prohibited from having guns can easily evade the required background check and gain access to machine guns or other particularly dangerous weapons by registering the weapon to a trust or corporation. At present, when the weapon is registered to a trust or corporation, no background check is run. ATF reports that last year alone, it received more than 39,000 requests for transfers of these restricted firearms to trusts or corporations.
- Today, ATF is issuing a new proposed regulation to close this loophole. The proposed rule requires individuals associated with trusts or corporations that acquire these types of weapons to undergo background checks, just as these individuals would if the weapons were registered to them individually. By closing this loophole, the regulation will ensure that machine guns and other particularly dangerous weapons do not end up in the wrong hands.
Keeping Surplus Military Weapons Off Our Streets
- When the United States provides military firearms to its allies, either as direct commercial sales or through the foreign military sales or military assistance programs, those firearms may not be imported back into the United States without U.S. government approval. Since 2005, the U.S. Government has authorized requests to reimport more than 250,000 of these firearms.
- Today, the Administration is announcing a new policy of denying requests to bring military-grade firearms back into the United States to private entities, with only a few exceptions such as for museums. This new policy will help keep military-grade firearms off our streets.
When was the last time a class III was used in a crime, especially one that was in a trust?
Dorner I suppose.
Suppressors are completely illegal in California anyway, trust or no trust. I don’t know the details of Dorner and how/where he did the paperwork for that stuff or if he had them under a law enforcement exemption, etc, but for a normal non-LEO in California there is NO way to have an SBR, SBS, or suppressor (AOW, yes).
BTW as long as you can still get ONE tax stamp for the trust and put as many [background-checked] people on it as you’d like, the main benefit (at least for me) of it is still in effect. That being the items owned by the trust can be used by anybody on the trust and remain owned by the trust in the event of one person’s death with no need for another $200 stamp to transfer to somebody else. If you own a suppressor as an individual, you MUST be in physical control of it. No loaning it to a friend or whatever. A trust allows people to “share” it. If you own one as an individual and die, your wife would have to do the full $200 NFA application process to take over ownership of it. Adding background checks for the people going on a trust wouldn’t ruin this big benefit of them, at least.
Hopefully it would still NOT require the sign-off of your local CLEO. Plenty of background checks are done without that.
Dorner didn’t need a trust:
All the gangbangers in my hood have NFA trusts. In fact, the savvy ones have revocable intervivos trusts and health care proxies too – just in case they get clipped in a drive by.
I would have guessed Special Needs Trusts for that group…
There’s about as much truth in this press release as one issued August 1,1939,stating,” The Poles attacked us first!”
I think you may have meant September 1st of 39.
If they use common-sense in the first sentence, that means it MUST be true.
This does nothing to stop or prevent or solve any crime, because criminals don’t USE nfa guns or M1 Garands in crimes. This is yet another attack on law-abiding Americans who’ve already ponied up the money to get an NFA stamp, or who want to save precious relics from being destroyed. “Museums” aren’t the only place with collections.
In fact most museums acquire there specimens through private collections – either donated at death of put up for auction.
So M1 Garands are now in their sights as “military grade weapons”
Heh, this is the first I’d seen of the actual press release. It’s definitely written to put this in the best possible light, because telling the truth, “Look, we are denying the reimportation of 60-year old Korean War rifles!” would be somewhat underwhelming.
Exactly- The WH and the State Run Media spin-masters trying to get some attention, anything, to support the “narrative”, ie that they and MAIG matter-
and distract from the complete and utter failure of this Administrations
performance and complete loss of credibility in other minor things- like:
-economy and jobs
Meanwhile, two separate studies CDC and Harvard show no correlation between gun control and crime prevention, or – if anything- that higher responsible gun ownership means less crime…
nonsensical bullshit. “Military Grade” WTF is that? Junk? So The 50 year old M1/Carbines are that Dangerous? Really? Idiots.
Try more like 70 year old rifles lol
Anything that requires someone to pull a trigger and get at least one projectile moving in a forward motion is considered “Military grade”
There goes my NERF collection… 🙁
Apparently it can be simultaneous C&R and military grade.
Finally, somebody thinks of the children…
Seriously, the anti-importation thing reeks of the standard gun grabber tactic of targeting the ammo rather than the firearm. Last I heard the proposed shipping containers contained something like 750,000 M1-carbines. 30 carbine is fairly cheap. Guns + cheap, available ammo = a gun grabbers worst nightmare.
As usual, this will do absolutely nothing since criminals NEVER spend $15,000 to acquire a registered full auto weapon. They usually steal them. Or acquire them illegally.
And congress will authorized importation of these horrible “military” weapons. Or the next administration. When was the last time a M1 was used in a crime?
Stupid is as stupid does.
I just got my trust paperwork finalized, and now this crap…and I doubt anyone is going to challenge this change. What next?
One thing we can do is comment on the proposed rulemaking once they announce it in the federal register. It probably won’t help but if the comments are overwhelmingly against the change, and explain is a polite, professional, and personal way why the change is bad policy, burdensome, etc. it might soften the blow, provide some basis for a court challenge, or set the stage a change down the road in a better administration.
They don’t seem to have the proposed change up yet, but hopefully TTAG will keep watching for it.
We must do something to silence that incessant pinging of ejecting en bloc clips that echo through our city streets.
*TIIING* That my friend is the sound of freedom. A sound the Obama administration wants to silence.
Yes, the “fifty year old” M1 Garand and M1 Carbines are “that dangerous” … just ask the Germans and Japanese and Italians who learned that fact the hard way.
[The Garand is 70+ years old and still delivers a devastating round as quickly as you can pull the trigger and quickly reload another eight round clip into it].
But, there is no reason not to allow them to be brought into the country, placed with the Civilian Marksmanship Program and from the CMP responsibly distributed to collectorsand shooting enthusiasts.
Don’t say stupid things about the firearms that won WWII In the hands of our brave troops and allies.
You are correct Paul. The M1 is a great rifle. Those of us who would like to own a piece of history should be able to do so.
I don’t see gang bangers running around with M1’s on our streets, just like I don’t see criminals flocking in droves to lawyers to setup gun trusts.
If you live in a state with a 10 round magazine cap the M-1 is superior to an AR-15. The 30-06 is the most powerful round ever used in an infantry rifle and 8 rounds in the M-1 is far more effective than 10 rounds of 5.56.
Military rifles have not advanced much since the Garand. Full automatic fire is way overrated in effectiveness. Firing an AR or AK in full auto mode gives you fewer trigger pulls per mag than an M-1. When you fire full auto the rounds are all going to the same place and if are spraying most of the rounds are wasted.
I live in NY. I’ve owned my Garand awhile and I do agree that it makes a great SHTF weapon even if you live in a free state.
>> the M-1 is superior to an AR-15. The 30-06 is the most powerful round ever used in an infantry rifle
It’s on par with 7.92 Mauser, with the latter having a slight edge.
>> and 8 rounds in the M-1 is far more effective than 10 rounds of 5.56.
Sure, but then you’ll have to reload.
>> Military rifles have not advanced much since the Garand.
They got much lighter and more compact, for one thing.
>> Full automatic fire is way overrated in effectiveness
Full auto on an infantry rifle is not meant to be used for long range shots. It’s there for CQB, when it is used in the role that submachine guns played in WW1-2 period.
I ave seen penetration comparisons and the 30-06 does more damage.
Lighter doesn’t mean better. It means lighter. Plastic rifles are useless when you get to hand-to-hand and that still happens.
Two rounds are in the noise. The 30-06 coverts a lot cover into concealment only. A lot more mateials stop 5.56.
Read some WWII AARs. The M-1 was superior to submachine guns even in close quarters fighting. See the 82nd AD defense of their Market Garden drop zones as fine example.
“I ave seen penetration comparisons and the 30-06 does more damage.”
That’s what an M1a and it’s 20-round detachable magazine are for.
“Lighter doesn’t mean better. It means lighter.”
Hike for 20 miles carrying an M1 and tell me that. You get the advantage of a synthetic stock, which unlike wood will not swell and cause the gun to jam in hot, wet environments.
“Plastic rifles are useless when you get to hand-to-hand and that still happens.”
Carry a handgun as well. It’s more effective and still lighter than an M1 garand.
“Read some WWII AARs. The M-1 was superior to submachine guns even in close quarters fighting. See the 82nd AD defense of their Market Garden drop zones as fine example.”
I think that’s down to superior quality of the US airborne over your average German troops in 1944.
I wish he’d leave guns alone and go after the thug culture, which is responsible for the majority of murders in this country. That’s the only change I’m hoping for right now.
But, but… if he had a son, he “would look like” the thug culture.
Going after the thug culture means the Obama administration would have to go after itself . . . .
Can’t go after the thug culture, he’s part of enabling that culture via increase in food stamp program, cell phone for under privileged. The war on poverty ruined minority families:
I started my residential lending career on the 235 subsidized housing program. Government subsidized housing program that tax payers paid to welfare mothers to own a house. Could not be married or would not have qualified. I was gainfully employed by a Savings & Loan and could not qualify for a mortgage but my federal income tax went getting welfare mothers into houses. The 235 program housing subdivisions quickly turned neighboring subdivisions into high crime ghettos just like the one baby mommas came from..
Thugs do not, I repeat do not buy guns from legal channels, they buy black markets or steal them.
So sick of being lumped into the same category as low life in gun legislation. I have become single issue voter: no more gun control that only effects lawful gun owners
Yo, me and Big Deeh Just dropped some straight up muthafuckin’ hot lead outta dis M1 gas-trap garand we bought wit’ da C&R from the the muthafuckin’ CMP, yadig?
Shit be cookin’ up with da’ dirty thirty aught!
Off to cultural sensitivity class with you young man! 😉
Oh, stewardess! I speak jive.
Kiss all the WWII and earlier bolt guns goodbye…Mauser, Enfields, Japanese, Swiss, Swede, Finn, Russian….done and baked. Watch the prices go thru the roof on all of them….
The facts are that there is not 1 violent crime committed since 1968 from over the 1 million registered NFA weapons that are on the books. This is proof that this is less about guns and more about control. And as an FFL with SOT who sets up these trust funds on a regular basis, I find it ridiculous that they think a criminal is going to set up a trust to commit a crime. Shameful!
That’s not actually true. There have been a couple of NFA registered machine guns used in violent crimes (murders) in the past few decades — both of the incidents involved police officers or ex-police. One in 1988, one in 1992. It’s possible these are the only two incidents, though, of a violent crime w/ a REGISTERED NFA weapon. Basically all other incidents of silencers and machine guns used in crimes, including the hollywood shootout and such, have been illegally purchased or illegally converted guns.
Not sure about Dorner’s suppressor use. As mentioned above, California absolutely bans suppressors. They may have been registered legally in another state or something, so I suppose it would still count, but it would have been a felony for him to simply bring them into CA. Unless he was allowed to do so because he was a law enforcement officer. Either way, there’s 3/3 homicide instances with NFA items being done by LEO’s.
Information on crimes committed with silencers: http://wcr.sonoma.edu/v08n2/44.clark/clark.pdf
Officers have access to NFA weapons that are normally registered on a FORM 5 (not a transferable machine gun). And a police officer has access to NFA weapons much more easily than the average joe. What Obama wants to do wont affect the FORM 5’s or the access that police have to NFA guns. It will only affect the average citizen….and again, transferable machine guns, registered on a FORM 4 have never been used in a crime that I know of. If someone out there can show me the info I would be more than happy to insert my foot in my mouth.
“Common sense”, = no sense, “liberal”= tyranny, “gun free zone”= criminal empowerment zone, “for the children”= death to the children.
“1984” is no longer fiction, we are living it.
“Slavery is freedom”
Thw term “common sense” is starting to cause an immediate feeling of nausea every time I hear or read it.
Uh oh, that was one too many. Blaaaaahhhhh. Now Obama owes me a new pair of sneakers.
Boy, that’s the truth.
The discomfort that I feel is at the other end of my digestive tract.
What. The. Fuck. Over.
These statements are very clearly designed to evoke images of the government agressively protecting the people by insinuating that things that are in fact not the case, and known to not be the case only by those of us that know anything about the items being acted against.
1) the average person reading this will assume that machine-guns and other modern military hardware that the gov’t sold to others is being re-imported and bought by civilians. They are not.
2) that having a trust means that background checks are not being performed on the people taking delivery of these NFA items. They are.
Lets see if the NRA, GOA or SAF steps up and sues the Obama administration for violating federal law and for violating the separation of powers as enumerated in the Constitution. These guns are considered as curio and relics under federal law, Obama has essentially created law without the consent of Congress. This should be a slam dunk in federal court to put a injunction on enforcement of this EO. But my bet is that the NRA, GOA and SAF will do nothing.
I don’t see how the idiot has gotten away with circumventing congress so much with his little executive orders. I’m tired of this f***er using the bill of rights and the rest of our constitution as toilet paper.
The last time a NFA item in a trust was used in a crime was “NEVER”. Not to mention there is NO loophole. After you have waited forever to get a $200 stamp on a piece of paper you still have to fill out a 4473 as an individual!!! AKA background check! Oh and why in the hell is there a separate section on the new ATF 4473 form asking if you are hispanic or not. Imagine if they put a separate section asking if you are black or not. Whats next are they going to make me check Jew or not! Maybe Obama should work on something useful like adding more employee’s to the NFA transfer branch to speed up transfers instead of using ATF personal to sell guns illegally. Or maybe he should stop making problems for law abiding citizens. It’s getting harder and harder these days to be a law abiding citizen with all the stupid laws that get passed in secret. When did the United States sell to liberty, justice, and freedom to the China to pay for our debt?
Yeah 10.a is pretty messed up.
You’ll note that Hispanic does not appear in 10b, because Hispanic is not a race, it is an ethnicity. The government still wants to capture that information, though.
Ethnicity – An ethnic group or ethnicity is a population of human beings whose members identify with each other, on the basis of a real or a presumed common genealogy or ancestry.
So in theory they can add.
I wonder how that would go over.
Just tired of gov’t only focusing on preventing the “gun” part of “gun violence”. It’s been said before but worth mentioning again… violence in general is what we should be attempting to prevent, and nevermind what tool was used. Guess that’s too complicated a notion for our elected officials.
Is it just me or is the president really reaching here? I mean really reaching. Unfortunately, the uneducated masses won’t realize that, but to those of us that understand what he is doing it’s comedic. It looks to me like he is going after the only opportunities he has to exercise control. The not allowing re-importation is ludicrous. Seriously, he’s afraid that M-1 Garands and carbines are going to be used in criminal activity? I could almost buy that argument, if I employed leftist reasoning, for the carbine, but the Garand? It weighs 11lbs, has a fixed capacity of 8 rounds, and is over 3 and a 1/2 feet long. While it is a capable battle rifle, it does not lend itself well to crime, unless it’s to bludgeon someone to death or possibly pin them down under it’s weight to incapacitate and rob them.
He is simply doing this to gun owners because he can. He is also doing it to ride the wave of the MSM praise for not allowing military firearms back into the USA to be sold to a common citizen. There would be blood in the streets if he allowed that. The uneducated have no clue that the guns at issue here are not the evil scary black rifles that everyone is so afraid of these days, but the words used to describe them are the same so the people will assume they’re the same. I wish someone would air a commercial showing one of the wood stocked behemoths sitting on a scale, with the announcer saying that this is the gun that your president thinks will be used in street crimes. Notice how easily concealable it and lightweight it is, thanks to the advanced technology, and the futuristic materials used in it’s production over half a century ago.
You know what? If he was just honest about his intentions, I think I’d be okay with him treating me like I’m his subject. If he just flat out said, I’m going to do every single thing in my power, no matter how obscure or punitive to the average citizen, just because I want to. I know this will have zero impact on crime. I know that this will not lower the murder rate. Heck, it might even give it a nice kick in the other direction. I’m doing this, because I’m pandering to my base. I’m doing it because gun owners tick me off. They haven’t gotten with my program like they were supposed to, and now I’m going to make ’em feel it whenever I can. If he said all of that, I could at least respect him for being honest and and confronting me about it, instead of this death of a thousand cuts strategy that he currently has in place.
If we could ALL just admit that there are now two opposing factions in this country that will never be able to accomplish anything jointly ever again. We see things from two opposite perspectives and do not care to consider any views other than our own, and have no intention of ever doing so. I mean, why should we? What’s in it for me? If I give in even slightly, that means I’m not getting what I want, and this is what I want to do, so you just have to accept that and get on with your life. Elections have consequences you know, and I won the last one. We are now, and forever will be, opponents. Not enemies, but opponents. Everything from here on out is a contest of wills.
Some straight forward honesty like that would just make things so much more palatable for me.
End of rant. You’ll have to pardon me, as I live in the occupied territories of NY now, and for the foreseeable future. I think the constant bullying by those in power is starting to affect my self esteem, and sense of self worth. Is there some federal program that I can enroll in to help me work through all of this?
Move SC ! I’m trying like heck to get out of this state. Also, don’t lose hope. The NYSRPA case is in court on 9/12. It’s a strong case and there’s a chance for a preliminary injunction by 1/1/14.
I’m very keyed in to those suits. I was up until 2 am last night reading the the Statement of Undisputed Material Facts, and the other related filings. IMHO our side made a very good showing,and the state’s defense was close to pathetic, almost to the point where I felt pity for them. But, I’m not the trier of fact, nor am I an expert in law or legal argument, so my opinion is worth exactly zero.
Obama Is The Worst President Ever!
Let’s see if the White House Fact Sheet used all the important keywords:
common-sense — check
dangerous — check
military — check
comprehensive — check
gun violence — check
congress fails — check
common sense (again) — check
gun trafficking — check
progress — check
gun violence (again) — check
Yup … looks like they covered all the bases.
And did anyone notice how they use the words “dangerous”, “military”, “guns”, and “violence” in one paragraph? When people read a paragraph like that, their brains connect all of those terms on a subconscious level. After enough reinforcement — voila! People think guns are dangerous and bad. It is the equivalent of a Jedi mind trick. (I wonder if George Lucas got that idea for the Star Wars series from the gun control people?)
They missed “blame previous administration”, though. Must have been an oversight.
It’s all that evil “BUUUUUUSSSSSHHHHHHHS” fault. I was no fan of George W’s policies but I will say he did have to deal with some of the worst tragedies America has faced in long time. 9/11, Katrina, Virginia Tech and there’s alot of other stuff that I could list but weren’t as big headline grabbers. Admittedly I don’t think I would have done much better, nor anyone else for that matter, so I’ll at least say thanks for the 600$ refund. Obama would have handled Katrina like this. He would have declared Level 5 Assault Cyclones to dangerous, and then signed 231 executive orders to deal with the Hurricane problem, and then assigned Uncle Joe to deal with it. Uncle Joe would tell you level 5 hurricanes aren’t needed, just get side by side tornadoes, since they suck less and are much safer?! Mark Kelly and his wife would run around the country telling people how they lived through a hurricane once but they think they should be banned since they know better than you or I, with Sloth(Mark) using her as a meat puppet. Feinstein, Reid and Schumer would try to use legislative power to stop these evil cyclones which have every right to exist, a natural right at that, but promise they wouldn’t take away your average tornado, and that’s all you need anyways cause they know better and that’s what Uncle Joe believes is best. All the news stations would say they believe we need more background checks background checks background checks for these deadly fully automatic assault twisters, that they shouldn’t be able to just go anywhere and do what they want, because that violates everyone else’s rights. Bloomberg will donate billions of dollars to put slur commercials on air about how bad hurricanes are and how New York doesn’t have hurricanes and we should all be like New York and do Bloomy’s will. Every progressive will get confused about high capacity tornadoes vs fully automatic hurricanes vs assault typhoons on the internet, and proclaim to be the highest authority on the subject All the people with IQ’s above bananas will realize that
it’s a fruitless endeavor, and that there are other ways to deal with hurricanes like moving inland, or building better city structures to deal with the problem and that those hurricanes have every right to exist and existed long before government made rules about twister and cyclones. And when it doesn’t work and Hurricanes still kill people they’ll call everyone who believes nothing should or could be done racist, homophobic child killing bloodthirsty savages, they will vow revenge on us sensible Americans.
You completely missed “our streets”!
WON’T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE STREETS?!
Man i was going for perfection there. Where were you when I needed you?
I would think they WOULD want guns on the streets. Confiscation is easier when they can just open a car door while at a red light, snatch up the M1s laying about, and toss them in the back.
Time to send Montana a check to support their legal challenge that a gun made in their state for use in their state is not subject to federal law. Screw the commerce clause.
This too shall pass. Executive orders can be recinded. In the mean time, keep buying AR’s, etc. and stockpiling ammo. Bring more friends to the range. Harass your legiscritters. And be sure to get out the good vote in 2014.
Obama is like a petulant child, except that his hissy-fits last longer and upset more people.
This obsession on the part of the Obama administration with “weapons of war on our streets” is part of a campaign to disarm citizens in this country.
Why does this government fear its law abiding citizens to such a degree?
Because if Obama had a son, he wouldn’t look like us.
” These executive actions build on the 23 executive actions…”
I have another executive action: #24 THROW THE BUMS OUT!
Ugh everytime I see/hear “common sense” come out of a politicians mouth I picture them thinking “see I said it first, now they can’t claim it. Doesn’t matter if its true I still said it first”
So at approximately 3pm I read about the latest abuse of power by our king douchebag.
Sat back and wondered what I could do to register my displeasure.
Picked up the phone and ordered a VEPR 54R.
I pray for the fastest 42 or so months of my life to go by so that this national nightmare can come to an end.
I wish they would stop F___ing around and just do their Job. The president with foreign policy and congress with OUR country… Beside, they can’t afford all this garbage that is (being enacted for our protection)…. Let’s just move along to the next wasted bag of water in the white house… this is getting old…
NFA devises pass tax free to your family with out a trust!
I wouldn’t worry too much about constricted supply. There’s some product differentiation among ammunition, even if only quality between identical specifications, but overall it approaches commodity status. So it’s fungible.
Russian ammo that now won’t come to the U.S., will instead go someplace else. Whatever ammo was already being sold in that someplace else, will now come here, replacing the Russian ammo. Bilateral economic sanctions are rarely effective, and even then work only if there’s some special circumstance involved. A commodity like ammunition, for which there are many suppliers and innumerable consumers, isn’t special.