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Press release from Grass Roots North Carolina [via]:

As we alerted you last week, Attorney General Mark “Red” Herring has decided that Virginia will cancel conceal carry permit reciprocity with North Carolina after February 1st, 2016. Under the guise of protecting Virginia citizens because North Carolina’s background check standards aren’t good enough, both Herring and Governor Terry McAuliffe have created a hostile environment for law abiding CHP citizens traveling through the state of Virginia . . .

As GRNC President Paul Valone calls it: They are creating “solutions in search of a problem”.

What problem? And how has that “solution” worked elsewhere? Let’s ask Shaneen Allen, a law abiding citizen who obtained a concealed-carry permit in her home state of Pennsylvania, but didn’t know the permit wasn’t valid in New Jersey. She was pulled over for a minor traffic offense in New Jersey, at which time she informed the officer she had a handgun and a permit thinking she was within the law. New Jersey put her in jail.

From the Washington Examiner:

“Under New Jersey’s rules, [prosecutor Jim] McClain could have declined to press any charges against Allen, recognizing that she was guilty of little more than an innocent mistake. He could have treated it as merely a misdemeanor and sent her to municipal court. He could have permitted her to enroll in one of the diversionary programs that New Jersey has established for peaceful first-time offenders, thereby sparing her both the prison time that will take her away from her children and the felony conviction that will almost certainly destroy her career in medical work.”

Instead, McClain decided to push for maximum punishment: three years for firearm possession and an additional year for ammunition. Exactly how exactly did that reduce gun violence and protect law abiding citizens? This is what Herring and McAuliffe want for Virginia? puts a greater point on the effect of this unlawful move to revoke reciprocity:

“…the effect of cancelling these reciprocity agreements goes both ways, so that not only can out-of-staters no longer carry their guns into Virginia, but Virginians can’t carry their guns out of state…it goes without saying that if you are going to take the trouble to go through getting your concealed carry permit, you are a conscientious, law abiding gun owner. What Herring has done has not made the people of Virginia any safer, it has merely made it more difficult for people who want to exercise their Second Amendment rights in accordance with the law more difficult. Which of course is exactly the point. Note that this action was taken unilaterally and without the Virginia legislature.”

Note: North Carolina honors all out-of-state permits and will continue to do so. GRNC will oppose any attempt to restrict Virginians or anyone else visiting our state.

So how does this all sit with the law abiding citizens of Virginia? The Virginia Citizens Defense League posted this on AmmoLands’s web site: First, I’d like to offer an apology to our fellow CHP holders from the 25 states that are about to lose recognition from Virginia on February 1st 2016.

“All of you who have visited Virginia over the years have been exemplary and have not caused any problems within the Commonwealth.

This is NOT about you or anything you have done that was wrong.

It’s about our Governor, Terry McAuliffe, and our Attorney General, Mark Herring, who were both elected by a very small margin, and are a great embarrassment to Virginians. Neither of these individuals are reflective of the attitudes toward liberty and freedom and the values that we cherish here in Virginia. In fact, both have been referred to as “lawless” by some of our own General Assembly members, many of who are going to work to fix the situation we find ourselves in.

Here in the Old Dominion, the anger of gun owners at what our Attorney General has done is palpable, and I cannot remember anything to match it. Herring and McAuliffe have endangered your lives when you travel here and our lives when we travel outside of Virginia.

SIX MILLION CHP holders in half the country are affected! HOWEVER, you do have a few options if you still want to come visit us.

Open carry is legal in Virginia – no permit required and you can open carry in most places in Virginia. Our police don’t bat an eye. VCDL’s website has a list of the places that you cannot carry. And, here’s another good reason to open carry: McAuliffe and Herring HATE open carry. But, hey, it was THEIR brilliant idea to prohibit concealed carry, so they will have no choice but to get used to a whole lot more people open carrying in Virginia!”


Contact Governor Terry McAuliffe and Attorney General Mike Herring. Let them know that you will keep your traveling dollars here at home our home state or spend it at states that honor our ability to protect ourselves. If you have have to travel to Virginia, let them know that you will be happy to open carry while you’re there.

Contact Information for Governor Terry McAuliffe

Phone: (804) 786-2211

Contact Information for Attorney General Mike Herring
Phone: (804) 786-2071

Go to and sign the petition. Contact your friends, family and acquaintances to also sign it.


Grass Roots North Carolina/Forum for Firearms Education is a non-profit, all volunteer organization devoted to educating the public about trends which abridge the freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, and engaging in grass roots activism to preserve those freedoms. Formed in 1994 to conduct a highly successful rally for the Second Amendment, GRNC has gone on to conduct projects like “Remember in November: A Gun Owner’s Guide to Voting,” bringing concealed carry to North Carolina.


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      • I’ve posted many times here, but it bears repeating. Government = we the people, and is comprised of your a-hole neighbors who needed a job. Don’t let your a-hole neighbors dictate to you, and you off yourself before you let them dictate to me. Comprende?

  1. OH, PA, and FL are the big prizes. If republicans sweep them the white house is theirs for sure. Mcmuffin barely won that race. Start attacking him now, and don’t let up until election day.

    • Ask yourself how did McCauliffe win Virginia anyway? The short answer is the GOP refused to back Ken Cuccinelli. They threw the election to McAwful, a liberal Clinton hack, because Cuccinelli was a Teaparty Conservative and the establishment GOP hates them more than liberal Democraps.

      Same with Obama. The GOP put him in office twice, by running lame establishment milquetoast opponents.

      Quit looking to the GOP to save us from this leftist onslaught. They are onboard with the Democraps 99% of the time. Paul Ryan proves my point.

      • You also failed to mention the libertarian streak running through Loudoun that failed to understand the “Spoiler Effect”.

      • You also forget Cuccinelli wanted to play social conservative issues way out of step with most of Virginia. Not loved by establishment, nor did he back off on social issues, which is why the libertarians revolted. If he could have just gone fiscal conservative/guns and laid off the abortion stuff and the like, he would have won.

        Play stupid games you win stupid prizes. Hopefully the GOP understands, tea party or not, it’s better focus on issues the voters respond to.

        • So, in the end, the Libertarians and everyone else in VA got McAuliffe as their new Governor. That is indeed one stupid prize.

    • But, but, but. but, you lose the tactical element of surprise! You make yourself a target! You’ll scare the muggles! /sarc/ #staleanti-OCrhetoric

      (In case anyone misses the /sarc/ tags, I agree with you. A right that isn’t exercised eventually will no longer be a right.)

      At least the usual objections of “you have no reason to” and “you’re just a chipotle-ninja” don’t apply. If I visit VA I’ll be OC’ing too. My liberal family members there (who voted for McAuliffe) will be apoplectic. They don’t know I’ve been carrying concealed for a couple years now.

  2. Terry McAuliffe – 2008 Campaign Co-Chairman, Hillary Clinton for President

    Still think voting isn’t important???

    • It is also widely rumored that he wants to be Hillary’s VP running mate in 2016 and he is probably on the short list.

  3. How about a 1000 out-of-state citizen open carry march in a public, legal venue…show Virginia Antis the tool that is their Governor.

    Wonder if Republican establishment remembers pulling their support for the Republican candidate? Do they care?

    • Most of the GOP establishment has probably put that little fiasco out of their memory. I assure you, the grassroots RKBA supporters have not. Their latest move is to dissuade independent voters in the upcoming presidential primary by requiring voters to sign a declaration that they are a Republican!

    • And my contributions to the RNC stopped with their failure to support of Cuccinelli. I’m sure others have done the same.

      • The “the lack of support” is a red herring pushed by Ted Cruz supporters right after the shutdown. Cruz cost Cuccinelli the election. The government shutdown pissed off a lot voters and more importantly shut down the campaign. The RNC cut back because they saw it as a lost race. Everyone was surprised as Ken’s come back after the shutdown ended. It is one of my gripes about Cruz. He knew it was a futile gesture but he did it with 2016 in mind and didn’t care that he wrecked another conservative Republicans elections prospects.

        • “Everyone was surprised as Ken’s come back”
          That is why the “grown ups” need to understand how important it is to never give up.
          The establishment was all p!ssed at Ted Cruz and “Tea” conservatives (they’re not a separate party). The GOP pulled ads from Virginia much in the same manner JEB! is pulling ads from Iowa this very week. There is no fight in them. Their primary tactic is to surrender and it works every time. We’ll see some bluster from Mitch about Obama’s EOs, but they won’t do a thing. The establishment will hear Obama’s veto threat, declare the fight a lost cause and be off to passing some more of Obama’s budget measures “for the American people.”
          Ken lost by 2.5%; I suspect a non-Virginia-valid CWP holder may lose a lot more than an election.

  4. So, no problem. Should I happen to visit VA, I’ll just open carry. I mean, I don’t want to cause any trouble or anything, so if the AG insists that I open carry rather than my preferred concealed carry, so be it.

  5. I’m not a fan of open carry for myself, but if the need arrives to visit VA I will avail myself of the OC option.

    • This isn’t a guarantee for the entire state by any means, but I am an LEO in VA and both me and most of my co workers aren’t going to charge people that are in violation of this BS the AG pulled. It’s garbage.

  6. The real question is whether the governor’s lawyers thought about this result. Me thinks not. Probably a bunch of snot-nosed, right out of a federal clerkship punks with no real world PRACTICAL experience but lots of hopes and dreams of making a difference. Real smart kids. Real smart.

    • My guess is that most of his staff doesn’t even realize you don’t need a permit to open carry in Virginia, or that Virginia does not have a gun registration requirement.

      • Most Virginians probably don’t realize that either. I know most of the people I talk to in North Carolina that aren’t gun people have no idea you don’t have to register guns or that private transactions don’t have to have background checks or that you can open carry without a permit.

        • Either that or it was a ploy to go after open carry, since the fact people can open carry here with no permit is being brought into mainstream consciousness and the gun grabbers will flip out

  7. Nope. Mark the MK words. Virginia gov will revoke non Virginians right to open carry. CA’s gov Brown ended open carry of long guns rather quickly

    • I am not a lawyer, but I believe that the governor can’t restrict open carry; open carry is legal in Virginia simply because the Virginia statutes are silent on the matter. There is no law “allowing” open carry, so there is nothing to revoke. Besides, even if there were a law “allowing” open carry, the governor can’t just revoke a law; the legislature would have to do that. Pens and phones only go so far.

    • The California Legislature rather quickly passed a statute (that Brown signed) because it was controlled by the Democratic Party with a 66-33% majority at the time.

  8. As a former Virginia resident I was planning to pay the $100 for a non resident permit but now I will just open carry.

  9. re: the photo

    Good idea to not carry your phone right near your gun, in case you need either (or both at the same time).

    And if you really want to be tacticool you’ll use your phone in your left hand anyway.

    • Thomas,

      Please see my comment below on action that both Virginians AND non-residents can take that should be MUCH more effective than a couple hundred people standing in front of the capital with signs.

      • We don’t stand in front of the Capitol. We go armed, in groups of 15-20 into the General Assembly building and tell our legislators what laws we want and don’t want. Everywhere you look, in every senator’s and delegate’s office, armed Virginians wearing orange “Guns Save Lives” stickers, making sure the buggers hear us.
        No, we don’t just stand in front of the capitol.
        Come join us, Jan 18 and watch the anti-gun legislators squirm and the pro rights legislators smile.

  10. The image of visitors touring the homes of Jefferson, Madison, Washington, and Robert E. Lee, as well as St. John’s Church (where Patrick Henry made his speech) and walking around Colonial Williamsburg openly armed fills this Virginian with unironic glee. You may also enjoy our many fine Virginia beers, wine, and distilled spirits while open carrying. The OC of long guns is also allowed except in some localities.

    • I was armed when we visited Mount Vernon. It just felt right. 🙂 We open carried most all of our time in Virginia and the car became our armory as we hopped on the metro in VA traveling to DC for the Veterans demonstration. Perhaps I should plan a visit back to the valley of my maternal ancestors this spring. It has been too long.

      Hopefully, those “Concealed means concealed!” nay-sayers don’t forget just how crucial open carry actually is. Unfortunately, as in Ohio, too many are happy to use OC to get what they want for privileged licensed concealed carry but quickly turn on the practiceof OCing. Where are the “Chipotle Ninja insults from some so-called POTG now?

      • Colonial Williamsburg is full of people OC-ing — the re-enactors are all toting muskets and swords. It’s interesting that nobody seems bent out of shape at that. The reminders of history create a different mood — it’s a rare place where a boy (and more than a few girls) can point a toy gun at an adult and not get social services called on him. The “Redcoat” re-enactors play along with smiles on their faces.

  11. Last Summer a CCP trainer in NC went OFF the chain on a WRAL news segment in Raleigh because VA was allowing out-of staters (ie NC folks) to acquire permits ON LINE !!!! that were valid in NC due to reciprocity. I quickly saw through his “OMG This Is Wrong” ruse, as he, being a CCP trainer, was losing money on this deal so he ratted VA out to the general populace via local news media. Some people… think they’re patriots but when it starts affecting their paycheck, you see where they really stand. Not like GRNC. Paul Valone has been a stalwart champion for gun right in NC. If not for him and his volunteers we’d probably look just as stupid as VA does today.

    • The licensed privilege of CC has created an entire industry to lobby against the right to bear arms, OC or CC. It is one of the reasons I never supported licensing concealed carry in Ohio. It boggles my mind how some will give up the exercise of an actual right in order to do something as a privilege. People are making money and others are feeling special because of licensing. They don’t want that to go away.

  12. Okay, this is the perfect situation to finally implement my “nuclear option” for such problems. I have pitched this before without much response.

    The Virginia Citizens Defense League has to choose a particular Monday in the near future, say about four weeks from today, and tell as many people as possible what they have to do on that day. Once everyone is aware of the chosen Monday, they visit their local United States Post Office on that Monday to send a letter as certified mail with signature confirmation to Virginia Governor McAuliffe … expressing their displeasure and requesting that Virginia restore reciprocity with all 25 states. It is critical that we get thousands of people to do this, and preferably tens of thousands of people to participate, on that particular Monday. Oh, and everyone ideally has to send a full size letter in a full size (9 x 12 inch) envelope.

    Remember, because all of these are certified mail with signature confirmation, the Governor’s office is going to have to open all of them and probably even log receipt as they could be documents serving legal notice.

    This will quite literally bury the Governor’s office in all of these certified mail letters. Imagine how hard it would be for your office to receive 30,000 certified letters with signature confirmation all in the span of two or three days.

    That is exercising our First Amendment Right “… to petition government for a redress of grievances …” to full effect.

    • “all in the span of two or three days.”

      The way the US Postal Service works today, better make that two or three months.

    • Interesting idea. Unfortunately I’m unaware of any requirement that elected officials open their mail or sign return receipts. I suspect after opening the first few, the remainder will be refused and returned to sender. Politicians also enjoy an exemption from restricted delivery.

  13. Don’t bother to contact the governor or the AG. They! Don’t! Care! But…if you were planning on going to ole Virginia at all next year be danged sure to let the tourism board know why you’ve changed your mind! My wife and I considered going to Virginia Beach next year, mainly so I could tour the USS Wisconsin in Norfolk. Last time we were there it wasn’t open to internal tours. No way I’m going now!

  14. AdamTA1; I’m not sure you can open carry in all of NC. The State courts have ruled you cannot go “armed to the terror of the people”. A firearm is considered unusual and dangerous.
    Here is the NC DOJ document issued in Dec 2015, a link:

    I’ve asked several LEO’s if I will have trouble and they told me no problem in Charlotte, but the place is full of anti gunners and I don’t think I want to take a chance on a police officer (who can bring charges) or a local judge.

    Rural areas: Open carry is okay and any do

    • Armed to the terror of the people they would have to prove you were carrying to terrorize. Openly carrying a holstered firearm in a non-threatening manor it’d be hard pressed for a police officer or judge to show you were going to the terror of the people.

      I’ve seen others open carry in Charlotte and the surrounding areas. Not often but it happens. I open carry in Indian Trail occasionally. My work doesn’t allow me to carry and that’s about the only reason I go into Charlotte so I’ve not done it but I’ve never heard of anyone having issues. If cops want to be pricks they can do it anywhere despite the actual law.

      • All it would take is one or two fragile, jumpy (or plain hate-filled anti) muggles outside of their safe-space, who claim that the mere sight of a gun induced pants-wetting fear; along with a cop who holds a very dim view of plebes openly packing pistols. Though it probably won’t hold up in court; “you can beat the rap, but you can’t beat the ride”.

        • Individuals in Ohio have found that sometimes you have to take the ride to get the establishment to stop. If you bury your head and hide in the closet it will not change. Some places in Ohio used to have a problem with trying to charge people with inciting a panic or disorderly conduct for open carrying. The only way to put a stop to that is to continue to open carry. Many people need to be willing to take the risks of serious bodily injury or death, the ride, and even risk conviction. Often times, there is no other way. Unless you want to always go to the back of the bus, it takes a certain number to refuse before it will ever change. Organize and take action. Repeat until lasting change comes about.

          Start with empty holsters if you have to. Progress to handguns. Finally, finish the job by carrying long guns along with your handguns. Once change is successful, a certain amount of maintenance open carry is required; long gun and handgun, with handgun being most often.

  15. “The law of unintended consequences, often cited but rarely defined, is that actions of people—and especially of government—always have effects that are unanticipated or unintended. Economists and other social scientists have heeded its power for centuries; for just as long, politicians and popular opinion have largely ignored it.” Unintended Consequences by Rob Norton

  16. I actually think that reducing reciprocity was the key motivator for doing this; People are less likely to get their permits if they want to carry in another state and can’t, or they’re going to get out of state permits with higher recognition so they can carry elsewhere.

  17. Every Virginia voter knew who Terry McAullif was. And yet they voted for him or the gun owners were to busy and did not vote at all.
    If you say the democrats and Republicans are the same then you are part of the ptoblem. They are not the same. But it does muddy the water when you say it over and over sgain.

  18. For me the answer is simple, I don’t take my money to states that treat my rights as something the right people are allowed to exercise. There are several formerly free states that I do not visit nor to I do business with companies located within their borders because the taxes that get paid support tyranny. If you live in those places, you have my sympathy, but you need to fix the problem or pick up and leave.

  19. Making it almost a must to open carry only makes it 1000% easier to confiscate. What other reason would the be pushing this but to make their job easier and to go around search and seizure laws.

  20. When Governor, Terry McAuliffe, and Attorney General, Mark Herring were elected, this site and many gun forums stated PST! Does not mean a thing because of the house a senate nothing is going to happen, we are safe.

    Well, as we see, when you elect an anti-gun politician that is exactly what you are going to get because that narrative is important to their political credibility.

    The only way to stop these jackasses is to not vote them in to begin with. This is why voting is important.

    Hillary will most likely win because of the same reason, people being to lazy to vote or will vote for a 3rd party which has zero chance to win.

  21. Contact the President of Virginia’s Tourism Board: [email protected]

    I just sent her a note. I would suggest keeping the politics out of it and expressing that you will be limiting tourism business and travel to VA as a result.

  22. The developers at Cryptic did their research before creating Star Trek Online.

    He’s not going to accept being in a marriage without sex.
    South America is a huge continent with a diverse range of cultures, countries and people.

  23. Just submitted:

    Mr. Herring,

    As one of the 6 million concealed carry permit holders affected by this change in Virginia’s concealed carry laws, and one that travels on a periodic basis through the state of Virginia as I will do this next week, I would like to just let you know that after your order removing concealed carry reciprocity with the state of Pennsylvania takes effect in February, I WILL begin to lawfully OPEN CARRY in the state of Virginia as a result of your meddling with concealed carry at the bidding of your master Michael Bloomberg.

    I hope you enjoy the fallout you will receive from the gun owners of Virginia and others affected by this cheap shot at the constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms. Sic Semper Tyrannis my ass.

  24. Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.

    Bwa-ha-ha. Please, stop. I can’t breathe. Snerk.

    Bwa-ha-ha-ha-hoo-ha-hee-hee. Hic.

    OK, how did this work out? Let’s see…

    – Legislation to take away Governor security-squad’s armed goons, Plus associated press.

    – Legislation to reel in that particular law. Plus associated press.

    – Half the legislature now campaigning on “oversight” for those out of control unilateralists in the administration. (How’s the rest of your agenda doing, there sparky?)

    – Increase in “open carry” in the state, because that’s better. (Snerk.) Plus associated press. Plus repeated visual demonstration that citizens with guns don’t result in bloodbaths. How’s that narrative doing, there sparky?

    – Decrease in tourist trade. Increase in tourists making a gesture / point by open carrying if they can.

    – Piss-off how many other peer administrations? Enforcing your mandate on their citizens when traveling in you gulag will go over how well? Yeah, not well.

    – Illustrate to the legislature, in case they didn’t get the hint before, and the people who think differently from Governor barely-got-in, in case they didn’t get the hint before, that he really has no regard for your opinion, so you better pay attention to who gets in there. Recruiting for the opposition much?

    – Haven’t we already heard about manufacturers (meaning jobs and tax revenue) moving out of state because of the regulatory climate there? Well, this is gonna help with that. Oh, wait. The other thing.

    – In case it was unclear to anyone, this put the issue front and center with an example for the upcoming presidential election. (This guy is a pan-Clinton political ally. So, what’s she gonna do should she get in? The presidential election is, indeed, a referendum on citizens owning guns at all in the us. BTW, he burned his political support from that direction, by making this an issue at an inconvenient time. Unless he had orders, the mess he made is on him, and that particular political operation is not … forgiving.)

    So in the immortal words of Caribu-Barbie(*): “How’s that working out for ya?”



    (*) My point, and I do have one, is that correct is correct, regardless of who says it. So, dismissing something because it came out of the mouth of someone you otherwise might despise is … poor reasoning on your part. If you are gonna dismiss an opponent that much, you better hope he/she/it never said anything correct. If they were ever right about anything it makes you look like the schmuck.

  25. Mr Herring received about $1.2 million from billionaire Bloomberg and McAulliffe received over $1.5 million from Bloomberg in the last election cycle – this is pure payback. Bloomberg destroying the gun rights of millions of citizens for a few million dollars.

    I’ve started giving money to the NRA as well as just about any pro-gun politician. I’m thinking about actively campaigning for several. I also started taking my liberal friends shooting – a little education goes a long ways towards overcoming ignorance.

    We’re not going to win this fight in the mainstream media – educate your neighbors and be proactive in elections – don’t just sit around and wait for election day.


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