california ammunition background check
A photo from The Time Before (Dan Z for TTAG)

The previous three years in the ammunition market was over-capacitized. We had more capacity in the market than we had buyers for. So prior to that, we had invested tens of millions of dollars in the last ten years in capacity expansion and efficiencies.

So when we got the slump over the last three years, we didn’t expand capacity because we didn’t need to. We had expanded capacity in previous years, which we weren’t using that capacity in these last three years. 

So as the market had picked up in March, first off, we had to go hire a bunch of direct labor. We’ve hired literally hundreds of people in Anoka [Minnesota], hundreds of people in Lewiston, Idaho, and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds in Lonoke, Arkansas as we’re doing right now. 

So we have to hire that many people. We can’t train all of those people at the same time. But at the same time, we had some brand new equipment — I call it brand new, I mean it was a couple years old — new equipment that we hadn’t fully utilized, so we were actually kinda lucky for the investments that we made, you know, five to seven years ago, we are reaping the rewards today. 

So that’s why we have shipped a lot more ammunition this year than we had in the previous…last year. Just look at our publicly disclosed earnings remarks. You’ll see just how much more dollars of ammunition that we shipped this year versus last year. We wouldn’t have [been able to do] that if we wouldn’t have made the investment five years ago to get the capacity expansion. 

So we always get asked, every day, ‘Why aren’t you adding capacity?’ Well, we did add capacity. We added a lot of capacity. That’s what we’re getting from today. 

As far as new capacity, obviously we don’t talk about that. We don’t want some of our information disclosed. But I think it’s good to know for our listeners that we are investing where we need to invest.

But at the same time, we need to be aware of the supply chain. You know, it’s always, ‘Just make more, build more factories, become more efficient.’ Well, it doesn’t do any good if you can’t get the materials. 

So we certainly know there’s a national coin shortage going on, which takes brass. Well brass is in every round of ammunition that every factory makes. So it doesn’t matter if you’ve got a brand new factory. If you can’t feed it raw materials, then what did you do? You have a bunch of depreciation.

So it’s not only the manufacturing that we’re taking the brunt of the criticism, and rightfully so. But it’s also people need to understand that the supply chain was really affected as well and you can’t have capacity or factories if you don’t have raw materials to put it in. 

— Federal Ammunition President Jason Vanderbrink on It’s Federal Season Podcast #18

108 COMMENTS

  1. Can’t make bullets without raw material, makes sense. The cost of raw material probably has risen too which adds to the price paid by consumers. Demand + increased prices for material makes for a seller’s market which probably will not change to favor consumers any time soon. New employees should be trained by now and production should increase; however, the demand seems to be steady or increasing. All of these things together are supporting current prices. Good for the manufacturer but not as good for consumers. Time will tell.

    • Apparently there is also a shortage on fonts. Requests to return to what was working must be falling on deaf ears. Eye health is paramount when it comes to shooting therefore TTAG if you want folks to read ads and fight for gun rights then change the font or call it quits. It is that bad. BIG PICTURES…tiny skinny blinding little fonts.
      No explanation, apology, reason for what looks like chat room decor coming from a bunch of pot smoking dorm room guys with google career aspirations. C’Mon Man.

      • In my browser, there are three vertical dots at the far right end of the line with the URL. Clicking on the dots opens a dialog box with several options including zoom. Click on the + sign to enlarge the font. TTAG isn’t the only web site that is barely readable unless I zoom in.

        • @ Kendahl, love your answer about the three little dots…..LOL, Duh!!!!! I can’t believe there is anybody in the world that doesn’t know how to use the font zoom sizing feature from 25% (1/32nd) to 500% (1/2″) I’m still laughing!

        • Control and + should be the keyboard shortcut for common upside jumps in all browsers. Control and – to do the opposite.

      • All I have to do in Window’s 10 is to depress the Ctrl key and roll the mouse wheel forward and the font goes to any size I want.

  2. Maybe they should crack down on the scourges who are screwing the buyers over with extortion type prices and unreal auctions. Capitalism is one thing. Raping the consumer in dire times is another. I for one will remember every store and seller who gouged consumers. I hope their nest egg is big because they’ll never get a dollar from me. If I won a huge lottery today, I’d buy all the ammo production up and give a free box to every consumer who couldn’t afford it.

    • I’m sure you’re just a few tries away from that winning ticket… could you please send me a case or two of 45+p? Thanks, Pb.

    • JJ reminds me of 2 old friends talking when one ask, “if you had a million $ would you give me half? To which his friend replied, “you my best friend sure I’d give you half”. The friend then ask, “if you had half a million $ would you give me half and the friend said certainly I’d give you half of half a million if I had it. The 2 keep talking with one asking and reducing the amount until his final question, “if you had $20?” at this point the other friend interrupted the question and said, “man shut up you know I got $20!”
      Easy to give away what one doesn’t have…………

      • And, there boys and girls, is a summary of Government free shit give away. Easy to skim, scam, squander and buy votes with money government doesn’t have by stealing…..uh, tax….. it from productive citizens.

        • That is why government should have to fund their stupid programs from their own pockets. Want a “gun buyback”? OK, Biden/Harris, YOU pay for it. Yeah, you’re no so “heroic” now are you?

        • Todd says: “That is why government should have to fund their stupid programs from their own pockets.”
          The government has no money in its pockets. It never did.
          What it has is money from the pockets of taxpayers. That’s why the government is never worried about spending money: it has none to spend, so spending someone else’s money is easy.
          Add to that the fact that all the current legislators who spend someone else’s money know full well that by the time the bill comes due they will be comfortably out of office, and you end up with fiscally irresponsible spending.

    • JJ,

      There is no simple nor easy answer to situations where general demand far outstrips supply.

      If distributors keep prices at pre-panic lows, distributor inventories will always be low or non-existent. Why? Even people who have sizable supplies back at home will try to purchase more out of the simple (and very rational) fear that they will not be able to resupply in the future when their sizable supply at home finally runs out. Of course amateur speculators who understand this will also try to purchase any available inventory so that they can resell it at a significant profit. And then people who have almost no supply at home — who would normally just purchase a very small quantity when needed — would also try to stock up (even if modestly) so that they would have supply on hand when they need it. These three natural and predictable human reactions will ensure that inventory is pretty much never available, which perpetuates the situation indefinitely.

      If distributors steadily raise prices, eventually they will reach an equilibrium where they can finally keep inventory on the shelf at all times. Why? People who have sizable supplies at home will not want to pay the new “inflated” price. Additionally, since inventories are once again readily available on distributor shelves, they will no longer fear being unable to resupply in the future. Thus, they will stop buying up inventory. And amateur speculators will not see any significant profit potential (since consumers can simply buy from distributors) and they will stop buying up inventory. Finally, the last group of people who have basically no supply at home will see that they can buy a small quantity as needed (even though at an “inflated” price) and they will stop buying up inventory.

      Those are simple facts. If you despise how this makes ammunition purchases a significant hardship for poor people, direct your ire and action at the politicians and their activists who created this environment, not ammunition manufacturers/distributors.

      • Excellent analysis. You must have taken your economics classes seriously.

        Those complaining about “gouging” seem to be looking for Uncle Sam to come in and solve the supply/demand equation in their favor.

        If we want manufacturers to pay-up to buy the lead, brass, copper, powder and primers to make ammunition we have to be willing to give them prices at the retail level that flow back-up the supply chain to acquire those raw materials.

        Thank your more serious PotG who gradually accumulated inventories in their basements. They aren’t NOW contributing to the excess demand. We need to allow those 8 million first time gun buyers access to retail supply so that they can develop a modicum of proficiency with their new arms.

        In a couple of years we can hope that the ammunition market comes back into equilibrium. Then, all of you complainers about “price gouging” can resume your normal practice of buying only what you shoot each day and not laying up supplies for the inevitable day of future shortages. And, when that day comes, you can resume complaining about “price gouging”.

        Supply and demand; it’s the American way. If you don’t like it you might not have anything to worry about. Neither do the Powers that Be. They will be glad to manage the supply and demand for ammunition on your behalf. You won’t have to budget anything for your daily needs.

        • Yes indeed. I’ve not bought guns or ammo in a year. When prices went up i sat it all out. I don’t shoot much anyway. I also standardized all my rifles on .308 and accumulated it over a 3 hear period. I’d like to have more pistol ammo for target shooting fun but that’s not going to happen until the market stabilizes. There is of course the chance it may never rebound or the gov may make it hard and expensive to buy ammo.

          The left now knows ammo is the key to gun control and restrictions. Expect laws, taxes and limits on buying it.

        • MarkPA,

          Thank you for the compliment.

          Believe it or not I never took any high school nor college Economics classes. What I did do (about 10 years after graduating from college) is acquire my good friend’s introduction to Macro Economics text book and dive into it. The material stuck with me.

          And with the Internet now at our fingertips, finding information about anything — including basic Economics — is easier than ever. In that regard I am a perpetual student, always learning about new things. I wish the masses would have the same desire and appreciation to keep learning.

      • so the shelves will be filled with inventory that nobody will buy, and they can look at it each day and wish they could sell it and the manufactures can cut production cause of greedy distributor prices hardly anyone buys it now; EPIC FAIL. Factory and distributor layoffs. I haven’t bought ammo in a year now, too high I simply don’t sport shoot anymore, I have more than enough for self-defense. The price of firearms are out of line too right now. Sitting back eating the popcorn and watching the show, my wallet tightly closed.

        • Joe Barry,

          “so the shelves will be filled with inventory that nobody will buy …”

          And at that point, manufacturers and distributors will start dropping prices and people will begin buying larger quantities of ammunition again.

      • Where are these “amateur speculators” supposedly selling all this ammo? They’re not, at least on any sizable scale. I’ve got 6 figures on hand and I ain’t selling shit.

        • Gunbroker is one of them, Armslist is another… Open your eyes and actually Look around and you will see it everywhere.

    • Screw you JJ. I sold for double what I paid. I saved my money, I did the research and waited for the right time and vendor to purchase a couple thousand dollars of ammo over a year ago, I provided the location and paid the bills to store it securely for the year it sat, and the buyers still got cases of ammo for half (at that time, now about a quarter) what it was selling for elsewhere. Except they couldn’t get it elsewhere because everyone was sold out. So I’m sure those firearms trainers who ran classes for the new owners were happy with the SERVICE I ended up providing. You “yeah, but” pseudo-capitalists are as greedy and whiny as anyone else with their hand out for government assistance because they are too lazy to work to better themselves. Word on that: it’s a disgusting look.

      And no, I didn’t do this to “make money”. But it’s none of your damn business what I do with my hard earned and saved money. If the market didn’t support it, that ammo would still be sitting in storage, costing me space and money.

      I have a strong mind to do this intentionally whenever ammo is available again, except invest tens of thousands. Then I can sell more of it, but cheaper. Even though from the sounds of it, selling it cheaper means I may end up helping those that arguably don’t deserve my help.

    • most of the time, the price rationing function of markets ensures consumers get the best quality at the best price. When there is a shortage prices go UP , which incentivizes more production. The problem is that increasing production can take a long time depending on available labor, scarce materials, etc.

      “gouging”, although distasteful, is similar to selling to the highest bidder.

    • the greenies have destroyed our miners and the natural resorcess people have gone crazy and stopped the factories from any discharge of any kind. all of our copper and tin mines are closed or reduced in size to family only..o’bummer and his communist crew bought most of the 9mm for the post office and the other government outlets that have no need for ammunition of any kind leaving the shooting public without supplies. now we need to start using steel cases like the comm-blok.

  3. “The government cares about us.”

    “Smart phones are benign.”

    “Social media is a net good.”

    “There will always be toilet paper and food on the shelves.”

    “Schools will never close.”

    “Teacher’s have the best interests of students at heart.

    “The power will always be on.”

    “There will always be ammo on the shelves.”

    This is what happens when we outsource the most critical things in life to someone else. The last fifteen months has seen all of our collective fantasies about the durability of civilization collapse. A small percentage of us knew all of the lies, and prepared. I’ve always had a goodly store of dried goods and ammunition, a generator, and a workable fireplace, if need be. All I can say is, BOO HOO!

  4. Here’s a thought…the child sniffer’s upcoming executive orders designed to slow the process for purchasing firearms may actually backfire on him because as he “tries” to control the process he is in essence affording time for firearm AND ammunition manufacturers to catch up. If demand is artificially lowered via executive orders then raw material prices decline and overall prices come down for everyone. Just food for thought…use his libtard policies against him and quite frankly, he is too dumb to even realize he just shot himself in the foot.

  5. In matters of supply chain management, the tail, indeed, wags the dog. Which is why the original Detroit car manufacturers created vertical supply chains; from dirt to sold automobile. It is also why the Japanese capture suppliers from end to end.

    Americans seem to believe whatever they want will be in abundant supply, 24/7, endlessly…and with damn little effort.

  6. Still wondering why the shelves are empty of the many assorted brands of foreign ammunition. Americans panic buying and coin shortage put the crunch on them too? Used to buy it by the crate, then poof, all gone.Seems kinda fishy to me.

    • yep and black powder is gone too, I guess the millions of new shooters are putting that into their 9mm guns too; there is a bigger picture we’re not being told about

    • Dude…everything is being bought up. EVERYTHING. And some places that get some ammo delivered are putting it on Gunbroker where they can get more for it. And I don’t blame them at all. When you only get a little bit of product to sell and you still have bills and employees to pay you need to maximize your return.

  7. I suspect the ammo issue similar to the toilet paper shortage, the tall pole in the tent was people running scared and buying lots of extra in a surge. It takes a long time to ramp up automated production and foolish to invest in new machinery if you are not sure the demand will last for years. Add to that the real threat the government will intervene and make life miserable for anyone connected to guns and you mess up the demand and supply balance that normally does give us access to low and moderate cost goods.

    • For anyone in logistics at a large company, you will know that the largest current restraint to move and and receive products is the shortage of truck drivers and containers.

        • What’s the back story on that? Not enough longshoremen to unload? Lack of warehouse space at the port of LA?

  8. Golly I’ve thought about auctioning off some ammo. We got a (they think!)secret fakebook group in nearby nw Indiana. Pics posted and a let’s meet or PM me or an underground auction. Certainly not going on Gunbroker to do that…meanwhile this Federal dude sure sounds whiny😏

  9. As for ‘price gouging’ – the only solution to short supply, and high prices is high prices. At ‘normal’ prices during a shortage, people buy everything on the shelf just because they can. High prices fix that until equilibrium returns. Econ 101, gents.

    • “As for ‘price gouging’ – the only solution to short supply, and high prices is high prices. At ‘normal’ prices during a shortage, people buy everything on the shelf just because they can. High prices fix that until equilibrium returns. Econ 101, gents.”

      That’s just plain unfair; evil, wicked, mean, bad, and nasty.

  10. I can understand the ammunition shortage – to an extent. I’m not sure I understand why items such as primers are unavailable [CCI has said they are using it all on their ammo – but if they are running at capacity, then they should still have primers available as well]. Also doesn’t explain why 22lr is unobtainium (and when it is, it’s triple what it was after Sandy Hook).

    If primers are unavailable, then why are bullets for reloading taking 12 weeks for shipping? Why are reloading dies unavailable anywhere?

    It’s not just ammo that’s unobtainium. It seems like it’s everything firearm related.

    • I’ve looked everywhere trying to find the SPECIFIC answer to the primer shortage but come up short. What component is the primer bottleneck and why is that? Is the equipment and facility working at full capacity 3 shifts 7 days a week with rolling breaks for workers? If there is extra capacity of cups, anvils, and lead styphnate how difficult is it to make another workbench where someone stands in water with rubber boots and “loads” primers?

      Maybe it’s something like packaging or curing capacity for all I know.

      I’m probably full of myself but I am confident I can find a way to boost production of primers quickly that makes economic sense.

      • “I’ve looked everywhere trying to find the SPECIFIC answer to the primer shortage but come up short. What component is the primer bottleneck and why is that?”

        The job of actually putting the primer paste into the little metal cup or rimfire case is done by *hand*. This video shows how the CCI plant does it :

        (About 3 min in)

  11. I”t’s not just ammo that’s unobtainium. It seems like it’s everything firearm related.”

    It’s called a panic for a reason.

    • Enlighten me, Sam… What other items are unobtainium right now?
      Cars? Plenty of them. Need lots of raw materials for them as well.
      Gas? Not seeing lines like in the 70’s…. Prices are $5/gallon (yet) either
      Food? Grocery Stores aren’t empty for longer than a day
      TP? That ship sailed a long time ago. Like in May of 2020.
      I can find virtually *anything* else that is a general consumable during this “panic”. But not guns, gun parts, ammunition, ammunition components.

      • Computer chips are a little short right now is the only thing I know of. Apparently the public bought a lot of electronics 2020 while they were at home.

        The auto makers have had production interruption and I specifically know the Ford Escape plant in Louisville was just shut down two weeks because of. I hear that’s the reason the new Xbox is hard to get but I don’t game. You can look into it if you care, I don’t desire computer chips more than necessary.

      • 300BlackoutFan,

        I think the reason for the difference in supply (and lack of recovery time) is surprisingly simple.

        With respect to NON-FIREARM materials and items:

        At the onset of COVID-19 outbreak, people figured that market factors and demand would be in chaos for several months and recover in 3 to 12 months as the virus abated. True to form, market factors and demand returned to normal (more-or-less) in that time frame — as did inventory and pricing.

        With respect to FIREARM materials and items:

        At the onset of COVID-19 outbreak, people figured that market factors and demand would be in chaos for several months and recover in 3 to 12 months as the virus abated (just like everything else). Then widespread civil unrest erupted and DEMOCRATS GAINED CONTROL OF ALL THREE BRANCHES OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. As a result, people expect a several year (if not permanent) profound market disruption for ALL things firearm related leading to demand which wildly exceeds capacity for just about everything firearm related.

      • It depends on where you look and when. Retail or online.

        I can go into town and pick up CCI Mini mags of 40gr .22LR at $11.99. They have piles of them if you’re willing to pay 23.98 cents/round.

        Where else do you see these disruptions? Almost identical? Lol, I’ve been telling you that for months. Chem stocks, medical grade plastics, various subsections of food, metals (manufacturing, zinc, copper, iron, manganese), metals (money, silver), electronics like GPUs and motherboards, minerals like potassium and sodium. The list goes on and on and on.

  12. Basic reloading should be made mandatory for everyone who owns a firearm. Lots of calibers out there that don’t require a lot of equipment. A Lee loader will turn out decent rounds if you have time and not much space. After reading an article here about casting your own bullets I bought molds for making wad cutters and 100grain round nose in 30 cal. Made up a few rounds for my 30-06 using Alliant 2400. Did the same for the wad cutters for my 357 rifle. Got the data from an old Hornady manual. They shot decent at 100 yards. Would I feed my barrels lead cast as a steady diet? No. But push comes to shove it beats having no ammo. Key is having knowledge and components, like any survival situation.

  13. Just when we thought we had seen it all. I was reading last night how the price of wheat just jumped 6 times it normal going rate. Here comes the inflation. Wonder what ammo and other prices will look like when inflation hits us.

    • Lumber is way up, too. I think there are strong signs of inflation that they’re blind to, because they focus on how much Chinese technology consumers can buy, and their tragic focus on unemployment.

      If you look at commodities, supply shortages, include food and fuel, and ignore macro-economic detours like unemployment, we’re already in an inflationary period. They should not only be raising the prime (which Powell says has to stay low), but should also not be pumping $2T of funny money out (which Yellen says “we gotta go big!”). It’s like we’re being led off the cliff by monkeys.

  14. Too bad they can’t just digitally create billions of rounds of ammunition like they can create $$$. 2000 rounds for everybody!

  15. & people thought I was silly for not wanting to go out poking holes in paper with them,,,
    I told them what was going to happen, now I got ammo & their searching far & wide for the stuff at a bargain price.
    & I can still out shoot them… HA…!😎

  16. “I can find virtually *anything* else that is a general consumable during this “panic”. But not guns, gun parts, ammunition, ammunition components.”

    Are you serious?

    Remember the shortages of toilet paper and sanitizing products? No body ramped up in short order to end those shortages, yet, over time, the supply stabilized….because people saw that there was no need for the panic….the government was not intent on making those items subject to stricter regulation, or confiscation.

    The panic over firearms and related is not market-driven, but government-driven. People actually realize that market-driven shortages are generally short-lived, and the buying is done to cover the short term. People realize there is no government attack on what are called “commodities”. Firearms and related are subject the the whim of politics, which is becoming more and more unpredictable as to target and timing.

    People know government is not going to ban toilet paper, and every type of sanitizer (combustion engine products are at risk). People know government eternally works to disarm the public. Sometimes the threat relaxes a bit, sometimes achievement seems more imminent.

    In supply chain terms, there is risk for every firearm component producer. End users might hoard firearms and accessories, but intermediaries have no use for stranded inventory they cannot put to use. How much risk can we demand they take? Auto manufacturers can decide to produce multiple variations of vehicles. The firearm industry is not so positioned. How much risk can we demand they take?

    Nobody owes us product at a price we want to pay. Meeting demand is not a natural, civil and human right of the consumer.

    Biden can sign an EO/EA today that makes the entire firearm supply chain open to civil and criminal liability for any negative outcome experienced by someone injured or killed by firearms or accessories. Should we expect the firearms industry to just ignore such an event? The matter might be overturned in court, in a few years, but meanwhile, the risk is unavoidable and enforceable. Considering the SC is so loathe to take on 2A matters, the firearms supply chain might well decide that they cannot endure the risk indefinitely. And you can be sure that if automobile manufacturers could be open to devastating lawsuits because someone used an automobile in a crime, automobile manufacturers would not ignore that risk.

    • Good morning Sam,

      I take exception to part of your, otherwise, cogent comment.

      “No body ramped up in short order to end those shortages…” I offer for consideration the subject of hand sanitizer (ethyl alcohol preparations). When the shortage struck, the liquor industry stepped in and, in short order, produced copious amounts of sanitizer to cover the shortage until the normal supply chain caught up.

      • Apples to oranges and still not correct, which is why CBP keeps busting shipments of toxic handsan coming from Mexico. Stupid/unscrupulous companies are using methanol to make handsan. Methanol is pretty toxic and will absorb through your skin.

        Lots of people were poisoned by this throughout 2020 and still it continues.

    • I’ll simply say I disagree with your assessments.
      If firearm manufacturers aren’t positioned to produce multiple variations, then why all the articles about new versions of Sigs, Glocks, S&W, etc. There was a virtual shot show, ya know, and lots of cool neat things were shown. Few are available *for purchase*.
      As far as things like “The people know government is not going to ban toilet paper”, etc – they don’t have to ban it; 3rd world and socialist/communist countries know what shortages are like, as they live it daily.
      I like to think I understand a free-market economy. I’m not asking for primers or ammo or firearm parts to be as inexpensive as they were 13 months ago. I’m asking for them to be available. If the ammo plants are running at full capacity, then shelves across the country shouldn’t be empty ALL the time. Someone is hoarding it before it even GETS to the consumer. Perhaps that’s government, perhaps that’s the middle man, or someone else. Remember when the government purchased 1 TRILLION rounds for DHS. Didn’t even cause a blip to retail shelves, or reduce availability in primers.

      • New product lines take an entire actual production line. Spooling one up takes well over a year. Those new products have been in the works for several years. It cost companies tens of millions to go from drawing board to out the door.

        You want them to stop that midstream? You’re asking them to take massive losses.

  17. What I’ve seen locally is that most of the LGS are still receiving small amounts of ammo but they are not placing it all on the shelves…preferring, instead, to keep most of it in the back and reserving that stash for longtime customers and persons purchasing a new firearm from them.

    We have a gun show coming up in a month. The owner of my favorite LGS told me yesterday that random people come in demanding ammo everyday…he figures that they are planning on profiteering at the show. He smiles and says that he ain’t got none for them…ya gotta love the cantankerous old bastard.

  18. “If you despise how this makes ammunition purchases a significant hardship for poor people, direct your ire and action at the politicians and their activists who created this environment, not ammunition manufacturers/distributors.”

    This. A thousand times this!

  19. “This is what happens when we outsource the most critical things in life to someone else….All I can say is, BOO HOO!”

    Oh, you meany. You insufferable meany. I have a natural, civil and human right to whatever I want, when I want it, at the price (preferably free) I want to pay. Government’s primary job is to secure/protect/enable that right. Governments fail because the beneficiaries refuse to provide all the resources needed for government to fulfill its mission. People like you are robbing me of my rights. You are guilty of a hate crime. Speech is violence.

    Viva Max !
    Viva Las Vegas !
    Viva la Revolucion !
    Free the Internet !
    Free the Whales !
    Free Willie !
    Workers of the world, untie !

  20. “I am confident I can find a way to boost production of primers quickly that makes economic sense.”

    Not being expert on the cost of producing primers, I can only posit that if I make more money allocating primers to cartridge manufacture and sale, I would certainly let bulk primer sales languish, or allocate only a fraction of previous production to bulk sale.

    BTW, all ya’ll, firearm and accessory suppliers have no moral or legal obligation to defend your 2A rights beyond that which enables the manufacturers to make and sell product. Manufacturers are free to make the decision that if only the privileged are able to buy and possess firearms and accessories, then a reduced market is better than no market….and try to corner the market via cutthroat competition. However, they are not obligated to resist government encroachment; that is our responsibility.

    • They’re damned if they do damned if they don’t.

      A huge uptick in ammo demand means that they need more primers to produce more ammo. If they put the primers into ammo then they anger the reloaders. If they sell the primers to reloaders they tick off the ammo buyers.

      There are far more people looking to buy factory ammo than there are reloaders. Reloaders suck hind tit.

      Know your place small fishies. (It also helps to recognise when you are a small fish and not a shark. Making a mistake in this area might just get your ass eaten.)

  21. “If its pennies that are holding up production I’d trade this jar full for a box of ammo.”

    Me first ! Me first !

    I have a bigger jar, and more pennies than you. I have a 34″ tall plastic Coke bottle filled with pennies; I win.

    • Yesterday I was standing in a Microcenter looking at a dozen 3D printing machines and thinking about all the cool shit I could make around the house with them.

      And then I remembered that they’ll likely be illegal soon and decided against buying one.

      Right now they talk “files” but in reality they know they can’t control that. So they’ll control the end-user by controlling the items and the materials they use (Commerce Clause baby! Fuck yo life!).

  22. “When the shortage struck, the liquor industry stepped in and in short order produced copious amounts of sanitizer to cover the shortage until the normal supply chain caught up.”

    That ramp up was true, but it didn’t happen overnight. There was a lag, and multiple alternative sanitizers available. Looks like I wasn’t clear about ramp-ups, meaning an erasure of a shortage of a particular product within days/weeks. Purell wasn’t available for a coupla months, and took advantage of the alternatives being available so that the demand didn’t swamp Purell to the point they would remain in shortage for several more months. (And, of course, government wasn’t announcing intention to more heavily regulate, or confiscate Purell from the public)

    ‘Preciate you keeping me honest.

    • Of course it’s a big help when you have one of the largest “chemical” industries in the USA making exactly what you need for another product. Multi-purpose (ethanol) and nearly unbelievable production capacity, preexisting and already profitable saved the day on people buying useless shit in this case.

      For once we were saved by the unhealthy habits of most Americans. I even made a bundle doing some emergency work for a distillery that was selling their product as stock for handsan.

      You will note that the same thing didn’t occur in the isopropyl market, which is still touch and go and quite expensive.

      Fearporn works.

  23. “@Sam
    You win…only if the dates on the pennies are 1982 and earlier.”

    That’s not fair. Not going to empty that bottle and look at every penny. Changing the rules in the middle of the game. What are you, some sort of SJW/Dimwitocrat/Leftist/Commie-Pinko?

  24. @Sam

    Fair? Ha ha, it is to laugh.

    I didn’t change any rules in mid-stream…the gubbermint did.

    No need for name calling.

  25. “No need for name calling.”

    I’m not much good for anything else, and now you want to take that away from me?

    That’s not fair.

    • @Sam

      Never said that you couldn’t name call…only that there was no need to. If that comment represents a “taking” in your mind then you should probably consult with John Roberts in re the nature of Government “taking”.

      See previous response regarding the use of the word “fair”.

  26. “The government has no money in its pockets.”

    Might have been true….waaaaayyyyy back, but $26,000,000,000,000 of debt isn’t taxpayer dollars, just inked “paper”. And taxpayers will never pay back that debt. However….

    Despite high school and university econ lessons, it seems at least one country can print infinite amounts of money, and still remain the world’s reserve currency.

    Which, I guess, proves one econ theory: nothing has intrinsic value; only that which people ascribe to it.

  27. Montana is now the 18th State to offer Constitutional Carry. Governor Gianforte (R) signed the legislation yesterday.

    Yea!

  28. “If firearm manufacturers aren’t positioned to produce multiple variations, then why all the articles about new versions of Sigs, Glocks, S&W, etc”

    Vehicles can be made in wide variations that allow them to remain vehicles. Vehicles remain vehicles if they are required to be powered by carbon fuels, wind, soar, electricity.

    Firearms, however stop being firearms if they are forbidden to use propellants to expel a projectile. Or if they are required to be manufactured without grips, stocks or any mechanism that supports the operation of a device that uses propellants to expel a projectile. Or if they are mandated to be manufactured solely from unobtanium. Or if manufacture of firearms is banned when using any material that can be configured into a device capable of being converted to using propellents to expel projectiles.

    The serious point is that firearms are under attack from government, subject to severe restrictions and eventually confiscation by government. Other consumer goods are not the object of government destruction (for now).

    Yes, firearms are a whole ‘nuther animal compared to toilet paper, gasoline, hand sanitizer, N-95 masks….

  29. “Never said that you couldn’t name call…only that there was no need to.”

    Well, it makes me feel bad if I can’t do name calling. Therefore, I need to do name calling. If you infringe upon my need (saying there is “no need”, you are taking away my natural, civil and human right to whine about unfairness. Telling me there is “no need” is just mean-spirited, and a gross display of privilege.

    And for the record….”fair” is a one-way street; it is how you treat others, regardless of their treatment of you (my sons used to hate that idea).

    The rest of this is jus’ funnin’.

  30. “For anyone in logistics at a large company, you will know that the largest current restraint to move and and receive products is the shortage of truck drivers and containers.”

    Yep. Supply chain management (logistics) is not for sissies.

  31. I’d wondered if raw material wasn’t also an issue with this current shortage, and this interview points that out. When components became scarce in the current shortage, I knew something besides supply and demand was steering this boat. Adding bodies and tooling to the line only works as long as you have materials. If you don’t have materials, all the infrastructure investments are worthless. Where does the bulk of our copper and zinc to produce brass come from? Where does the bulk of our lead come from? All the materials that go into a modern cartridge come from somewhere, whether it’s domestic or imported, and how much of each is a question, and crises, natural or man made will effect production. Brass isn’t mined, but the various constituent metals that make brass are, so if either copper and or zinc (the 2 main metals proportionately) mining is down, brass production will be down as well.
    The last I read, that a little less than 40% of the Copper the US consumes comes from imports, not domestic mining. I’m no analyst, but if nearly half of a metals use relies upon foreign importation, I’d say that’s not a good situation at all for us to be in.
    In a nutshell, ammo scarcity isn’t ending anytime soon it appears.

  32. Copper shortage + demand, copper’s trading where it did back in early 2012, $8649.75/ton as of this writing. The futures market forecast for 3/6/12 months is now $9200/$9800/$10,500. That’s +$700/+$800/+$500 from last quarter.

    Yet overall demand is actually down right now. Oops. On top of that we’re injecting about 0.7% of GDP into this economy each month to keep the markets afloat while main street gets murdered and turned into Soylent Green. This is inflating the price of all commodities. Many of which are in short supply as it is due to CoV-2 restrictions.

    And, on top of that, the Chicoms have openly said that they’d like to start pushing the prices for materials higher, specifically for Cu MUCH higher, aiming for “all time record highs in one year’s time”.

    But surely it’s price gouging, right?

  33. “They’re damned if they do damned if they don’t.”

    Zactly.

    Seems now days, no one can make decisions that someone doesn’t find was based on malevolent motivations.

    • Well, if those decisions were made on a “progressive” basis by Democrats or D-adjacents, the motivations almost certainly were malevolent.

      Plus, incompetence and malevolence tend to have the same outcome for the unfortunates downstream from the decisionmakers.

  34. “Right now they talk “files” but in reality they know they can’t control that. So they’ll control the end-user by controlling the items and the materials they use…)

    Wow. Wonder why no one thought of that before?

    Oh, wait. They did. Russia/China/East Germany….

  35. As long as we keep buying every box of ammo that pops up, especially when we don’t need it, this shortage will continue. It’s like a self fulfilling prophecy. If you really need that box of ammo then definitely buy it but if you’re just buying to stack on top of your stash…STOP! Once people stop panic buying, the prices and availability of ammo levels back out to pre-crazy levels. Once everything has balanced back out, feel free to stock up at normal prices.

    Don’t be part of the problem and then b!tch about it.

  36. “Well, if those decisions were made on a “progressive” basis by Democrats or D-adjacents, the motivations almost certainly were malevolent. ”

    One point of view; the other is the reciprocal….

    However, in this instance we aren’t talking right/left politics. People are attaching bad motives to what are easily arguable business decisions.

    So, my point was/is, we are in societal circumstances where everything is a conspiracy of some sort.

    As Freud is supposed to have said, “A cigar is sometimes just a cigar.”

    • A woman is sometimes just a woman. But sometimes she’s a humidor.

      One of those statements might be sexist. Hard to tell these days.

    • Yes, all very true. This situation is fully and quite easily explained by ordinary economic problems that have been dialed up to 11 by the ordinary malevolence/stupidity (take your pick) of “progressive” politics. No conspiracies needed.

      Although with the number of conspiracies that have made the jump from theory to reality in recent years (or were real all along), not to mention all the plainly real things that we’ve recently been ordered to believe are conspiracies, it’s a wonder that anyone can sort out any kind of reality at all at this point.

  37. Lead prices have gone up by more than 25%, copper prices have doubled, ammo prices have increased 3x to 10x. Sure, it all makes sense.

  38. “All I have to do in Window’s 10 is to depress the Ctrl key and roll the mouse wheel forward and the font goes to any size I want.”

    This is all just too complicated. Government should mandate that all browsers have the capability to determine the best font for the user, regardless of the source of the characters displayed.

    Just sayin’

  39. OMG THA COMMENTS . YEAH NEED MORE NEW AMMO FACTORIES , AND SUPPLIES , AND PEOPLE WITH AMMO MAKE n SKILL , AND ABOVE ALL MORE MORE AMMO …
    GUESS HAVE TO GO BACK TO MY YOUNGER DAYS , SLING SHOT N ROCKS . MARRRBLES ANY ONE . O , O , THERES A TIN CAN .

  40. The problem you all have been discussing about 200 year old ammo component technology, raw materials such as lead and brass etc. and the hoarding of same, can be easily fixed. Change the technology! Make shell casings and bullets out of cheap polymer. 1/3 the cost of lead and brass. Turn your bottled water in to cheap ammo. Guns are already on their way to being full polymer construction, so why not the bullets? The Military is already testing. The initial investment to purchase the necessary equip. for mfg is negligible. But, Mr. Vanderbrink likes his prices high and uses smoke and mirrors to make us believe otherwise. The con is on….

  41. “I saved my money, I did the research and waited for the right time and vendor to purchase a couple thousand dollars of ammo over a year ago, I provided the location and paid the bills to store it securely for the year it sat, and the buyers still got cases of ammo for half (at that time, now about a quarter) what it was selling for elsewhere.”

    Oh my. Think of all those unicorn anti-gunners who won’t be converted to second amendment defenders because they can’t buy ammo for the guns they can’t purchase.

  42. 13K sitting in metal 50 cal boxes.

    22LR, 357MAG, 38 +P. 9+P, 5.56, 7.62, 45-70MAG, 410 & 16GA.
    Bought 16K for $7,129 a few years back.
    Shot around 3K, still 13K left.

    Life is good when you prepare.

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