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“Police descended on the farm cottage in Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire after receiving a 999 call from a man who said he had opened fire on four intruders,” reports. “The man who dialed 999 told officers he had fired his shotgun, which is licensed and legally held, and the intruders fled. Minutes later, ambulance paramedics were called to treat a man with shotgun injuries. The 999 call was understood to have been made by one of the suspected burglars. A second man was treated for shotgun injuries after he walked into Leicester Royal Infirmary, around ten miles from the cottage. Neither of the men’s injuries were said to be serious. The householder and his wife were arrested on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm. Four men in their 20s and 30s were also arrested on suspicion of aggravated burglary. No one has yet been charged in connection with the incident.”

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  1. yep, welcome to the grabbers vision of our future in america. rahm, bloomberg,difi,pelosi etc. a lot on the line in this coming election.

  2. And in other news, common sense and the right to self defense is still dead in the formerly great britain.

    • Actually, “Great Britain” died shortly after WWII, when they joyfully embraced socialism. Now they are “the nation formerly known as great” Britain.

      • yes, and never forget that the awb started with the dems in ca. if we don’t want to go back to that we have to beat them in november.

        • Liberal Democrats entrenched within CA, Chicago, and NY violate the 2A? I thought Republicans and Democrats were all the same!!!
          (note massive sarcasm. I’m also a registered Republican voter)

  3. It’s interesting to note that in comments from around the Web, UK citizens overwhelmingly support the “arrest then release” policy, citing due process, whereas US citizens constantly wondered what happened to presumed innocence.

    • It makes good sense when you think about it. If someone shoots someone else, the shooter should be detained until it is determined he acted in self defense and/or whether there was lethal threat justifying gun play.

      Most DGUs, as I’ve told you guys before, are unnecessary or actually criminal acts. The UK has the right idea.

      Notice the burglars were arrested too.

        • Human nature, the paranoia of gun-rights advocates, the apathy and lack of preparedness of the rest of the gun owners, the disparity between the few DGUs that are reported and the bizarre numbers you guys keep pushing.

        • more and more like hitler mikebnumbers. you feel it must be so ,so there’s no changing your mind or reasoning with you. a closed mind is a dangerous thing mikey.

        • paranoia. that would be true if nobody was out to get our guns, but you admit that’s what you’re after, so how are we paranoid. doublespeak is a way of life with you.

      • “Most DGU’s are unnecessary or are criminal acts…” There you go again, making completely anti-gun, biased claims unsubstantiated by any real analysis of the facts. Have you done extensive research on DGU situations? By who’s judgment are these DGU’s deemed unnecessary or criminal? Just because “you’ve told us before”, it’s fact? (shakes head) I’m sure there are many that are unnecessary/criminal but you can’t label “most” of them that way, without real data (especially being known as an anti-gun advocate).

        There is always some statement in your posts that makes my head hurt. I’m real glad you’re not sitting across at my dinner table saying stupid shit like that. I’d want to show you the door without the apple pie desert.

        Come with some real data and an unbiased base-line, then I’ll also serve you up some coffee and we could talk.

        • Mike, facts are facts because they are easily backed up by hard evidence. You can point to a fact and easily defend it with said evidence. You can’t say that just because something makes sense, that it is a fact. Everyone has their own reality. What makes sense to you may not make sense to another, or to the rest of the population.

          • Yes indeed, what makes sense to me does not work for you and your friends because you’re biased and close-minded. You’re the ones with the guns which we’re talking about restricting. Tell me who’s more likely to be biased, you or me?

        • at one time people said it made sense that the earth was flat. that;s the kind of facts you want us to accept? you had 0 credibility with me until now, you’re in the minus column after that, mikeybnumbers.

        • Facts are often backed up with statistics and reported/recorded instances. Mikeb# do you have either of these things to back up your claims?

        • “…because you’re biased and close-minded.”

          And now you try to attack our character in an attempt to make your argument. Still not facts.

        • you are at least equally biased because you have an agenda also, mikeybnumbers. so by your own rational you are close minded and unable to see the facts of this matter either.

      • “Most DGUs, as I’ve told you guys before, are unnecessary or actually criminal acts.” Pathetic. There you go again, making ridiculous, unbiased claims like this. Where are your facts? Have you done large scale analysis of DGU’s? If so, where is your data? Who’s judgment is used to deem them unnecessary or criminal? Yours I take it. (Shakes head)

        You really have no credibility as an anti, coming here with that drivel and no data to back it up.

        I’m sure glad you’re not across from my dinner table saying that stupid crap. I’d want to show you the door without any apple pie desert. It would be uncomfortable for the wives and you wouldn’t be invited back.

        Then again, come with a non-biased base line to start from, some real historical data/facts…and I’ll serve you the coffee while we talked. I’d be open to what you had to say. Sadly, it’s your similarly polar opposite bias (that you despise and often criticize) that makes your attempts with the gun crowd come across as insulting (or simply fall on deaf ears).

      • And what do you think four young men were doing in the house at 12-30 AM on a Sunday morning? And this was the 3rd or 4th time that the house had been burgled.

        I know the Jehovas Witnesses and the Mormons can be pretty persistent in bringing the word of God to people but do you HONESTLY believe that their intentions were innocent?

        Such people can and do get off on the power trip and assault (totally unnecessarily if all they want is cash or goods) the occupants of the house. And of course, brain damage or death is a small price to pay to ensure that criminals are protected from the consequences of their actions.

      • “Most DGUs, as I’ve told you guys before, are unnecessary or actually criminal acts.”

        *citation needed

        • You need to use your head, Dan, and get honest about what you come up with. Human nature and the desire to put the best spin on a situation is what explains my claim.

          You do admit, I hope, that not every single reported DGU is legit. Then it’s a question of percentages, that’s all.

        • The legality of a DGU is proven in court, not in the mind of MikeB302000. And as soon as you come up with a DGU that is “wrong” we’ll oblige.
          But a DGU that is really a criminal act is small potatoes compared to the criminal acts prevented by brandishing or using a gun by law abiding folk.

        • I suggest everyone simply ignore Mikeb. It’s no fun debating FLAME DELETED. He’s a very weak pro-criminal advocate. It’s better to debate with someone who is reasonably intelligent and uses actual facts.

  4. “The householder and his wife were arrested on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm”

    That’s insane. The link to the story mentions that the cottage home had been previously burglarized several times though possibly under different owners. A local magistrate called the area a quiet peaceful community (eyes rolling here). In England, thieves don’t fear getting shot since few people have guns and I believe it is illegal to use a gun to defend yourself.

    I read of a case in England that occurred years ago. An older retired farmer held two young men, would be robbers, with a replica shotgun on his property near his house until the police arrived. The state prosecuted the property owner and the two would be thieves sued the older man for emotional abuse claiming he traumatized them. The older man was sentenced to prison.

  5. Two and a half centuries later, and still everyday we’re reminded of why we should be thankful our forebears fought the Revolutionary War.

    • And progressives say that the Constitution is “an outdated document”. I don’t care how old it is, if it helps prevent shit like this from happening here then I’m glad we have it.

    • I thought they fought the Revolutionary War because the British put a tax on their breakfast beverage.

      I suspect many gun owners today would have been British loyalists.

      • I said we should be thankful they did, doesn’t matter the semantics of why they did it. Frankly, the justified anger at something so seemingly simple as tea tax, yet indicative of greater oppression, is a trait we have far too little of today.

  6. Bloody he***. It has been a while since high school world history class, but didn’t Hitler lose the Battle of Britian?

  7. Well in principle it sounds utterly wrong in every possible respect. Assuming the facts are true, I don’t see any reason for the local police to arrest the homeowners.

    That said, law enforcement should investigate any shooting wherever it occurs. How are responding law enforcement officers supposed to know the facts? What if the four men were legitimate guests and the homeowner is a psycho who shot them claiming they were home invaders? Maybe they were all playing poker, the homeowner lost too much money, and decided to keep everyone’s money? There are countless possibilities.

    I believe we should give the benefit of the doubt to home owners and home owners should be able to use firearms to defend themselves when criminals invade their home. In order for that to happen, though, and for law enforcement to arrest the real bad guys, they need to figure out who exactly the bad guys are.

  8. The householders will receive a stiffer sentence than the “lads” who broke into their house. The UK is the only country in the world where the perps can call the police for help.

  9. I’m absolutely horrified but still not surprised by this. We’re talking about a country whose police force arrested a man at the Olympics for not smiling and looking amused (use your Google-Fu). And criminalizing any form of self defense, with any object mind you, because it’s “uncivilized”? What are we supposed to ignore the skyrocketing number of whilst at home burglaries and stabbings that plague the country? My mind is severely boggled. Sometimes, you read about something so intricately absurd that you just have to shake your head and laugh. This is definitely one of those posts.

  10. I read this on the UK Daily mail sight and they have disable comments due to legal reasons. I think they are afraid of getting blasted for the policies in England of punishing the victims. This couple wouldn’t be the first.

    • Under the law in CA, you would be fine. There is no duty to retreat in one’s own home.

      CA penal code. “198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to
      have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great
      bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that
      force is used against another person, not a member of the family or
      household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and
      forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or
      had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
      As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant
      or substantial physical injury.”

  11. “Grievous bodily harm”. Those poor, poor burglars.

    Yes, that is how things work here in Europenstan.

  12. Oh boy, here we go again. This is a complete non-story, but don’t let that stop the majority of you who have never even read a guide book, let alone visited, making ridiculous and false comments about England’s legal system.

    Here’s how it works in England – when you shoot somebody you get arrested. It works that way because we feel that it’s better to go through due process rather than have somebody on the scene who may be a buddy of the individual, or who may be racially biased etc., make the decision on the criminality and just let them go. Your average English bobby doesn’t really have the same powers as a sheriff does, say.

    Unless there is more to it than described here (as there was with Tony Martin, who killed a man who was running away from him with an illegal firearm) then the couple will have NO charges brought against them. They will be held for questioning and if they’re not out and free within 48 hours I will be shocked.

    • I lived in the UK for 18 years.

      Innocent until proven guilty, that’s how we roll in The Land of the Free.

      It’s a shame that British subjects inhabiting the birthplace of individual rights, where the phrase “An Englishman’s home is his castle” was coined, can’t quite grasp that concept.

      • They are still innocent until proven guilty – they haven’t even been charged, they have been brought in for questioning on suspicion. At the end of the day they shot somebody, that is not in dispute, but the details are as yet unknown. You can discuss the relative merits of both systems but honestly I see nothing wrong with them being brought in and somebody higher up the food chain making the decision on whether to charge them after speaking to both parties. Would you care to share how many injustices you think have happened in this country because biased local law enforcement were buddies with the accused and he let them off?

        Honestly, if you lived in England for 18 years then you know the people there are not some brow beaten pussies who would allow a legal, justified DGU to be punished – FFS they even have an MP on their side and it hasn’t even been 24 hours since the event!

        • “They were brow beaten into letting their government take away their gun rights weren’t they?”

          Quite obviously not, as we are discussing a DGU with a LEGAL firearm. Guns are not banned in England, just most guns are.

          Also, as strange as this may sound, the majority of the English are quite content with their gun laws – it means that we haven’t had to deal with 3 mass killings in the last month like this country has.

        • I didn’t say guns were banned in the UK, I said they had their gun rights stripped from them.

          You can have certain types of firearms in the UK… If the government feels like it. You have no right to own firearms in the UK as far as I’m aware.

          I’m sure they’re content to sit and watch as their rights are slowly stripped away from them, it’s sad really.

        • “I didn’t say guns were banned in the UK, I said they had their gun rights stripped from them.”

          They never had any gun “rights” to begin with, England does not have a constitution. I suppose the European Human Rights Act now fills in some of the blanks, but is not applicable in relation to gun “rights”.

          The English legal system and culture has its pros and cons, as does the US system. We weren’t legally segregating and persecuting people because of their colour up to the 60’s, for example.

        • If you’re arrested for any reason, you’re not innocent until proven guilty. Period.

          It’s pathetic how people work so laboriously to justify tyranny due to their own damaged psyche’s sick desire to be ruled and oppressed. If you think it’s so grand over there, then go live there, don’t try to change here. And when you go to jail for punching a burglar who’s trying to stab you, I look forward to hearing your praise of the system.


          If you were a black man in the 60’s would you rather that you were arrested and put on the books, but then given a fair questioning and released, or is it better to allow racist sheriff’s to dole out summary justice because they happen to be in the same klan as your aggressor?

          FLAME DELETED you can be arrested in the USA and still be innocent until proven guilty too – it’s not like England is alone in this regard.

          And as for not trying to “change here”, could you be any more transparent in your fascist “do what I say” mentality? I thought the whole land of the free thing was so we didn’t have to blindly obey pocket dictators like you and were able to affect change through the democratic process? The Republican hypocrisy is so thick you can spread it around here – you profess to believe in individual freedoms, only people can’t choose what to put into their own body, or choose what to take out of it – we can only do what you tell us, and we mustn’t try to change anything either. FLAME DELETED

          • Arrest them all and let the judge sort it out? Are you seriously suggesting that arresting people is a way to PREVENT corruption and miscarriages of justice?

            Equally, have you ever spent time in a jail cell? Assuming you were innocent of a charge would you sacrifice YOUR freedom to protect, uh, justice?

            And it’s no good conflating Republicans with conservatives or libertarians. There are plenty of Americans who vote Republican who believe that people should be free to do with their bodies whatever they please as long as it doesn’t infringe on someone else’s liberty.

        • “There are plenty of Americans who vote Republican who believe that people should be free to do with their bodies whatever they please…”

          Funny story about that. My friend stood up in a city council meeting where he lives in Virginia a while back. I believe he was speaking on behalf of his neighbors and himself in opposition to a planned rock quarry out their way, and the financial incentives that their already poor county was discussing extending to the company. He gave an impassioned, reasoned argument, and sat back down. After the meeting, a man came up and introduced himself as an official with the local Republican party, and asked my friend if he’d ever considered politics. My friend replied that he hadn’t, but “you wouldn’t like me anyway.” When asked why, he replied that he was a fiscal conservative but a social liberal, that he believed that nobody had any business telling people what to do in their own bedroom or with their own bodies. The man thanked my friend for his time, shook his hand, and my friend said that as he walked away he saw the guy put a line through his name on his notepad.

        • hmmmm, you bash the gop for interfering with your rights to your body but you have no problems interfering with my rights. as i’ve said before i support legalizing drugs and what a woman does with her body is her business. but in order to support my gun rights i have to vote for the people that usually are opposed to your favorite rights.

          now, if you pro choice and legalizing drug folks would come out in support of my gun rights this argument would be over.

        • Brow beaten pussies? that isn’t a factual statement, what the british citizen factually is a brow beaten peasant, peon and outright slave.

          That’s the definition of a people who can’t keep and bear firearms, through all of history. Or the slang term is brow beaten pussies.

          Amazing that we got our idea for the right to keep and bear arms from our British bretheren.

          Freedom really is one generation away from devolving into tyranny.

    • “Here’s how it works in England – when you shoot somebody you get arrested. It works that way because we feel that it’s better to go through due process…”

      Well, I learned something today that I was previously unaware of, and that’s that hmmmmm, one of our resident antis, lives in the UK? Neat. FLAME DELETED

      As for the rest, well, that’s a stupid fucking system. Thank God for our recently enacted (in some places) self-defense laws. Because while you’re being held for “only 48 hours,” your dog is shitting in the living room while going hungry, and you’re not showing up for work which may get you fired. But sure, let’s take everyone down to the station house for a 48 hour chat, even if the guy(s) you shot at had no business on your property, and likely (or demonstrably) had ill intent.

        • What was my flame? I thought I just said that I’d have to remember to keep his nationality in mind when I read his comments from now on.

          If you’re an American citizen and live in America, then what’s up with the “…because we feel that it’s better to go through due process…” part? What’s this “we” shit? You got a mouse in your pocket?

        • You owe the fact that you can call yourself a “citizen” rather than a “subject” to guns and the willingness of FLAME DELETED to use them for good.

          And now you try to disarm us and turn us back into helpless subjects. FLAME DELETED

    • Here’s the problem with British jutice versus the American flavour. In America they need probable cause to arrest someone. In Britain it seems the arrest comes first, before there is any investigation. The person arrested is humiliated and often subject to months or even years of uncertainty and anxiety before some bureaucrat at the Crown Prosecution Service decides whether to proceed. A friend of mine was recently arrested for making a ‘racist’ comment and she was a basket case for six months and spent a fortune on a solicitor before the ridiculous, baseless charge was finally dropped. She is the least likely person in the world to insult anyone and has not a racist bone in her body. The real criminals were the neighbours from hell who made a wholly unfounded accusation out of pure spite. They have never been arrested although their own stories were inconsistent and ridiculous. How did it get to dragging an innocent girl to jail for 14 hours on the basis of a case which was utter nonsense? I am afraid this is British justice in 2012.

      • you can be arrested for making a racist comment in england? so along with gun control and thought police arrests is there any other proof we need to know that england is no longer a free nation. i don’t suppoet racism, but to arrest somebody for a remark is jackboot territory.

        • You wanna hear real jackboot territory? the police actually arrested a man in the audience at the Olympics for not smiling and showing he was having a good time. Looks like George Orwell was right.

        • You can be arrested in Britain for sending an offensive tweet! Britain’s reputation as a beacon on the hill for democracy and free speech is somewhat overdone. Britain has also become the most surveilled society on earth. A network of roadside cameras hooked to automatic number plate recognition, urban cameras using facial recognition technology and ubiquitous and seemingly uncontrolled mobile phone tracking means that the state knows where everyone is, always. Orwell had it right in 1984 except his prediction was just a few years ahead of the actual deployment of Big Brother technology.

          • You rah-rah patriots of the US really crack me up. You live in the country that has the Patriot Act, indefinite detention, water-boarding, and electronic surveillance without warrant yet you continually mock the UK, often with exaggerated and made-up accusations about how down-trodden their citizens are.


          • He was actually arrested for his general demeanor, because he appeared to be acting weirdly. It’s a blatant exaggeration to say it was for “not smiling.”

            I can see why you like that. This is the same kind of bullshit exaggerations you use all the time. How often have you accused us of wanting to “ban guns” when all we’re talking about is increasing restrictions?

        • “He was actually arrested for his general demeanor”

          Is that supposed to make it better? Hahah, ok. I think that getting arrested for your “general demeanor” is just as ridiculous and shouldn’t happen in a free country.

  13. “SEVERAL REALLY NASTY FLAMES DELETED” cuz I’ve got nothing nice to say about those fools in the UK.

  14. Personally I think that the homeowners should be congratulated for defending themselves, not that it will happen in the land of the cowards. Also as a quick piece of advice to the homeowners: next time make sure at least two of b*****d’s are no longer breathing.

  15. Mighty empires fall when they lose confidence in themselves. I think after WW2 the British just gave up. It only took two spree shootings and some Labour politicians to disarm the populace.

  16. Hmmm… I wonder where MikeyB is. He was so much fun to mess with, this seems like the kinda thing that he would say is crap, or that they shouldn’t have guns and beat each others brains out with frying pans.

  17. Um, guys, I don’t know what America you’ve been in all your lives, but an arrest does not mean you’re guilty. Cops arrest people on probable cause. A jury or a judge decides whether you’re innocent or guilty, unless there’s a plea bargain or something. The big change in the US over the past 20 years or so is that state legislatures have written laws protecting homeowners from murder charges if they kill someone breaking into their homes. They don’t have that in Britain. You can still get charged and arrested in the US, though, if the DA believes that the shooting was not self defense. Just ask George Zimmerman.

  18. Ya know, I know the Brits are are friends and what not, but I have to say, I’ve never actually met a British person that didn’t end up as coming across as having their head up their ass.

    This story doesn’t do much to change my mind either.

  19. Don’t know what to say here, a lot of people think that British folk are some kind of pussies willing to be trampled by jackbooted fascists. Well, that’s not the case as evidenced historically. But, the country has got itself into a situation where there is little accountability of politicians from the local level upwards, that has been further eroded by laws imposed by Europe as a whole. I think there are lessons to be learned here, votes do count, hold your representatives/senators accountable and go from there. I read a lot of posts from people living in places such as California who say that they feel powerless to make changes at the polling station, I would say that the UK went through that and is an indicator of how things may become here due to changing demographics, voting preferences etc etc.

    Back to this case, most people in the UK would sympathize with the victims here (and I’m talking about the homeowners!!!) but the authorities have gone too far in the direction of pandering to the left wing hand wringing do-gooders who pander to the poor misguided criminal who only want to make a living……

    I love living in the US and pray that this country doesn’t slide towards the European way of doing things. The next few months will be important for sure.

    • the UK is the ultimate nanny state, where orwell’s ‘1984’ is seen as an instruction manual. surveillance cameras everywhere, and the sale of silverware is controlled lest someone use a dinner knife to commit a crime.

      the UK also hates motor vehicles. they deserve the congestion charges and ridiculous taxes.

  20. This November will be one the most important for the country. It’s pretty clear to me that Obama and his ilk want to take this country toward Socialism, along the lines of Europe. It’s a system that just can’t work in the long run and it’s unthinkable for the United States. I honestly can see a true civil war breaking out over that.

    • A civil war is unlikely. Any sane person will consider the horrors that would become of it and find a better way. We don’t need to kill our fellow Americans. We don’t need an oportunistic nation to try and take over in the aftermath of what Americans are capable of bringing upon each other. In the origional CW 618,000 Americans died. The population was 31,443,321. A rough scaling would bump the deaths to at least 6.2 million. This doesn’t factor in the advancement of weapons and medical technology. The outcome would likely be death on a historical scale unseen since WWII.

      We will probably see the winner (if there were such a thing in a CW) attempt to rewrite the constitution.

      I consider this unthinkable, but I fear that eventually it will come to fruition. Keep your wits and beware those that would faction the populace.

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