Michigan-based Trijicon has sued HOLOSUN for infringement of a patent that’s the basis for Trijicon’s popular RMR and SRO pistol red dot sights. As Bloomberg Quint reports . . .
Trijicon Inc. filed a patent complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission on July 29, saying that Holosun Technologies Inc., of Los Angeles County, is working with a manufacturer in China to sell “red dot” sights that replicate features on which Trijicon has held a patent since 2013.
While patents and the suits surrounding them seem to be written in their own language, the alleged infringement seems to be concerned with the housing designs of Trijicon’s popular Ruggedized Miniature Reflex (RMR) and Specialized Reflex Optic (SRO) sights covered by the patent in question, which can be found here.
Here are Trijicon’s RMR and SRO sights:
And here are two of the nine HOLOSUN sights that Trijicon claims infringe on their patent.
From the law suit:
…the Holosun red dot sights that infringe one or more claims of the ‘541 patent are identified as follows: HS407K, HS407C-V2, HE407C-GR V2, HS407CO V2, HS507K, HS507C V2, HE507C-GR V2, HE508T-RD V2 and HE508T-GR V2 (“Accused Products”) on Holosun’s website at www.holosun.com.
We talked to a representative of HOLOSUN who said the company has no comment on the suit. We’ve requested comment from Trijicon, but haven’t received a response yet.
The lawsuit was filed in California, where HOLOSUN is based. These cases frequently take years to play out, so don’t expect a resolution any time soon.
UPDATE: We reached a representative of Trijicon and they declined to comment on the pending litigation.
“China”?? Well, yeah. China copies everything they can get their hands on. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that Mitt Romney is involved, he likes shipping US jobs to China.
Vulture capitalist that he is. God I hate Mitt Romney.
I was about to try out Holosun, but now I’ll just stick with Trijicon.
HOLOSUN are FANTASTIC SIGHTS. Especially the 507TGR.
Like 95% of ALL electronics and just about anything that contains a micro-controller, it was designed and conceived in the United States and is being built or contains parts, boards, displays, etc. being built in China by Chicoms.
I’ll bet Trijicon is doing similarly.
All of Trijicon’s optics are made in America. Holosun headquarters is in China and they’re part of the Chinese military industrial complex. Holosun’s Cal location is just a field office for the Chinese gov’t owned Holosun.
Holosun is a Canadian company, not a Chinese company. Their sights are manufactured by SAM Electrical Equipment in China.
To add to what you said, for the shills saying Holosun is a Canadian company. Holosun has in the past been open about having been founded by an OEM company that produced sights for other companies. Holosun is essentially the same company as Surpass Technology Inc. The two share an address, phone numbers, and executives (most notably a person named Weike Sun). Surpass was founded in 2011 by the a Chinese company called Huanic Corporation and is in essence the American branch of the company. Holosun is not Canadian, they are Chinese, and while they are incorporated as their own company, they are nothing more than a brand that Huanic uses to sell their sights overseas.
Saying Trijicon products are made in America is a bit of a stretch. Assembled would be a more accurate description.
Made in America doesn’t always mean made in America, it can be as low as 60% in some cases. There is a lot of room to play with in the FTCs rules of “all or *virtually* all”. I need to see a list of sourced parts before I believe a product is 100% made in America.
The way of the game these days is to squeeze by with as little as possible with American manufacturing, American parts, and American labor. Assembled in the USA, made in the USA, Made in the USA with foreign and domestic parts, all different standards.
Even my own products aren’t truly 100% made in the USA because I usually have to source key materials from Australia, and India. :/
Forrest, Holosun is most certainly not a Canadian company but Chinese. Don’t post if you’re too lazy to research what you’re talking about.
You don’t *have* To buy Chinese made electronics.
The tiger economies are easily competing with China in that market. China isn’t the only Asian country making electronics.
Umm Sorry but Holsun like say Olight are 100% Chinese. Owners, workers, profits all Chinese.
I buy American whenever possible. Which means 100% American down to only the company is American when I have no option. Example I buy iPhones vs some Samsung phone. I fully understand that the phone is made in China but it was designed by an American company and the profits and many of the jobs are in America.
Yes there are times that I simply have no other choice but to buy a foreign product. However if there is a US product that is as good or better, even at a higher cost I will choose it. Example I have M&P 2.0 semi-auto pistols. I used to have a few Glocks but I sold them for more M&P’s simply because I was buying a as good or better American product.
If ever there was a time to buy American, after this virus it should be NOW.
I purchase and use whatever is the best product and value, no matter where it comes from and hope that the competition created by outside manufacturers drives the American companies towards more innovation and becoming a better competitor in the market place. That being said, many times, the best products are American, so many of the things I use are, indeed, American.
Just shows how ignorant this person is lol. Samsung is acutally 100% less chinese than iphones. A large part of iphones manufacturing and even some parts are assembled in china. Huge factories in china are dedicated to building iphones haha. We’re talking thousands if not tens of thousands of chinese jobs, chinese salaries, chinese wages. Your virtue signaling has failed tremendously, as it is clear that you haven’t even done your research before you decided to spew nonsense hahahaha Samsung manufactures their products mainly in vietnam, south korea, india, brazil, and indonesia. Specifically NOT china. So actually, by supporting apple and their iphones you are directly supporting the CCP whereas with Samsung you are only indirectly supporting them if some of the components or raw materials have to come from china. Apple really sold you and fooled you with their whole marketing gimmick of “designed by apple in california” but you are forgetting the “ASSEMBLED IN CHINA” part hahahaha.
Comments and people that say things like this are so funny because almost every single thing that involves electrical components are usually made in china or have a large percentage of their components made in china. And you really just said M&P’s are just as good as glocks smh M&P’s have so many documented failures in very crucial moments. LMAO You are a gullible consumer that has been easily tricked by marketing, do more research before you make claims like “Example I buy iphones vs some samsung phone” when china has way more to do with iphones and apple products than they have to do with samsung. We’re talking MINIMUM 30% (probably more) involvement with china for apple’s iphones. BIG smh. If there was a time to buy american, the time was before the global market opened up and china began manufacturing literally everything lol. What you’re saying is literally impossible except for the utmost simplest of items. Again, FAILED virtue signaling.
Also, like it or not, holosun products are GREAT for the price point and they actually give the consumers what they want and have actual improvements not just incremental adjustments sold as improvements. The quality is great for some chinese product, you can’t knock it. It has been proven time and time again that they are just as good as trijicon or aimpoint in MOST situations for MOST people. If it were possible to have a double blind test, the results and usage would be indiscernible between aimpoint, trijicon, or holosun. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
You do know that a fair number of Glocks are physically manufactured in the United States, right? I don’t mean assembled. I mean manufactured (molded, machined, stamped, nitrided, etc.) in Smyrna GA. As of 2013 US manufactured Glocks have been made using Austrian provided raw materials (CHF steel blanks and polymer resin) and will have a Georgia state-shaped proof mark on the frame, barrel, and slide and say ‘USA’. Austrian Glocks will say ‘Austria’ on the frame & slide and the barrel has Austrian proofs. Some of the subcompact models are even 100% domestic content due to import regulations/bans of exceptionally tiny pistols.
I’ll take that bet! I REALLY can’t understand why so many ppl post crackpot theories w/o examining the facts. Yeah, if you spend your whole life inside a Walmart – it appears that China sources everything. Reality is a bit different.
Go ahead, spend nearly twice as much on an inferior product. Free country, your money. I’ll stick with my Holosun 508T and reap the benefits
You must be their PR guy! Why defend the Chinese military owned Holosun company against the American made Trijicon?
Holosun isn’t jut made in China, they’re also owned by the Chinese government as part of their military industrial complex.
How is it you’re so uninformed of the facts?
Holosun is a Canadian company and they are just as good as Trijicon for 1/3 the price
DirtyOldMick is very wrong. Holosun is a Los Angeles county (City of Industry) based US company (NOT Canadian) that appearantly does zero manufacturing and is merely an import/sales arm for the Chinese OEM. “1/3rd the price” is a purely crackpot lie.
The Trijicon RM06 is MSRP $699, available today at $480 retail.
The Holosun 509 is MSRP $506, available today at $430 retail.
So Holosun is MSRP 72% price of Trijicon, but at retail 89% of the price- never-ever 1/3rd.
Yes, you can save $50 and have a very competent Holosun red-dot by deporting jobs to China. Consider how much of your tax dollars (about one third) go to supporting your un/under- employed neighbors SNAP, EIC, Medicaid and you IMO lose money buying Holosun.
Yes the 509 is expensive among Holosuns, but the cheaper 507 (still $340 at retail, 71%-of or $140 less at retail) lacks a lot of features and reliability & the 509 is still half an ounce heavier (important for slide reliability). The Holosun 509 vs the lighter Trijicon RMRs seems a fair comparison for pistols.
I’ve got zero problems with free-market trading nations like Sweden, and the Aimpoint (Swedish company, Swedish manufacture) is fine by me. Vortex (US company, but red-dot mfgr in China , Japan, Phillipines [maybe Phillipines makes the cut]]) leaves me cold . The Sig Sauer (German parent company, US pistol mfgr, Chinese red-dots) aren’t even close despite the fine specs. DI Optical & Burris are reportedly S.Korean mfgr – not free-market nations.
Let’s be clear – some nations let companies compete and fail on their own – ideal for markets&consumers – US & Sweden get the nod [Yes, Chrysler & GM bailouts and Swedish biz programs are a negative, Phillipines tax rebate are IMO acceptable/negative too] – a, A- grade. Some nations like Japan & S.Korea prop up and subsidize their preferred biz by government force & money — an anti-competitive action that harms all parties – C+ grade.. China props up their biz in an increasingly clear attempt to decimate competition unfairly (let’s ignore the human rights abuses unseen since Nazi rule) – far worse IMO – F- grade.
You are welcome to disagree w my valuations but the facts speak for themself. You ARE obligated by taxation to pay for your neighbors (maybe wrongly), and so dis-employing them has a real cost to you that is not accounted for in the price,
“Steve,” you are comparing an open emitter optic to a new (and therefore more expensive in the market) closed emitter optic lmao. Compare the 509t to the acro p1 and 100% of the time unbiased people will tell you which the better optic is out of the two… hint it’s not the $600 option. So comparing a 509t to an rm06 is a straight strawman and even you must know this lol. The cheapest I found the optic was for $450 and the cheapest I found the 507c-x2 (an actual apples to apples comparison) was $310. So that is about a 33% price reduction (retail) for arguably just as good quality and use for most people and if you are not some sort of operator that has very specific and more rugged requirements. Although arguably the holosun would hold up in those situations most likely as many tests have shown of the holosun family of products. The only difference is that they don’t have the service history or as long of a track record to really prove the speculation.
I can’t believe you said that the 509 “seem like a fair comparison” for the rmr when they are literally two different classes of optics lol. And how does “half an ounce heavier” equate to “important for slide reliability?!” And how does the 509t “lack reliability” compared to the 507c?! What parameters or actual tests are you going off of? Please tell me you are not just going off the fact that it “seems more reliable and rugged” or because “it is half an ounce heavier” hahaha. Sig and vortex (and holosun) all copied the micro red dots and other red dots that aimpoint literally pioneered. And sig completely ripped off holosun with their actual innovation of putting solar power on their red dots and mrds optics. If you wanna talk about innovation, holosun actually innovates (that’s what happens in a free market) even though they have admittedly stolen many concepts and built on them. If you think that the U.S is actually a free market than you don’t know just how much lobbying plays a role in the inner workings of our economy and financial structure. Remember the 2008 financial crisis and how we literally bailed out banks that were “too big too fail?!” Let me correct you. The U.S lets *intermediate to small companies* compete and fail on their own, not big businesses. They frequently bail out huge companies just like you mentioned with Chysler and GM.
Obviously supporting the ccp is bad but at the end of the day if they consistently come out with better or worst case equal products at a fraction of the cost then people will usually tend to buy the cheaper chinese products. You have to be well of or financially privileged to buy american made products all the time because they are (almost) always cheaper and equal if not better. Not everyone has the financial freedom to choose to buy american and that is the reality of the free market and economics in america. In a free market, people are free to choose the goods and services they deem the best for their money and in this world that happens to be chinese goods like it or not. People would love to buy american myself included but until prices go down (which they won’t because of wage laws and the standard of living in the U.S vs china), then people will continue to buy and enjoy chinese goods and services.
And fyi people are not “dis-employing them” by buying chinese products. You can’t blame the consumers for not employing americans to make cheap goods. You must either blame the potential workers for not taking lower salaries or more importantly (and realistically) blame the owners for not taking a smaller profit margin to produce american goods and services. Why do these american businessmen almost always outsource to china or make their products extremely expensive if they do make things in america? BECAUSE THEY DON’T WANT TO ABSORB THE EXPNSIVE COSTS OF MANUFACTURING AND PAYING HIGHER WAGES IN THE U.S when they can offset that cost to the consumer (by having higher prices for American made goods) or offset that cost altogether (and maintain an equally high profit margin) by outsourcing to other countries (mainly china). Thanks for coming to my ted talk v2.
Wont be free for long if you keep supporting the China with your purchases.
The Trijicon has a lot more flare out, making a far less crisp dot. The Holosun is also more feature rich. Check out Sage Dynamics’s video on each. He punishes equipment to see if it will last, and he’s very honest.
Agreed, I’d love to be able to buy a made in US product, sadly Trijicon is the only name in that game and they have let the RMR languish and have kept their prices high. I was tempted by Leopold Deltapoint but the battery life is just not long enough for my preferences…
I love the people who cite battery life as an excuse, as if most of you are actually going to use that 50,000 run time.
It’s just like the Always On crowd, crying about crap they wont utilize and have no actual reason to because the gun will sit in a safe.
A/ Trijicon isn’t even close to twice the price – it’s like 10% more for comparables – so are your pants actually in fire when you post this ?
B/ Yes DO review the Sage Dynamics reviews, but use your brain. the 50k hours for Holosun are entirely due to the shake-on feature – otherwise it’s a 4k-hr device. The weight is higher and that causes endless unreliability esp on light CCW polymer firearms. The “quality” is mainly about reliability as the Sage guy and many other state & Trij’ gets a modest nod there.
C/ I agree “made in USA” does not mean much but “made in a repressive regime that sells the vital organs of political dissidents” does.
Holosun is definitely a competent & decent and sufficiently reliable red-dot for duty use at a SLIGHTLY lower price. If that’s all that matters to you – then you aren’t considering the total costs of ownership.
SAME here…
AND… I’m also trying to find things I want to buy anyplace other than Amazon.
I think he’s made enough $$ off the US.
Is that really a Big Surprise to anyone???
Whats made in Chy-na is stolen by Chy-na!!!
Does trijicon make a solar powered optic? That was the one thing I liked about holosun (and why I was considering buying one).
Nope. Get the Holosun, you won’t be disappointed in the slightest
Yes, they do have a RMR model with dual illumination.
Yes I also have the dual-illuminated rmr. It is very nice. Very crisp. Screw anything Chinese made.
I don’t understand why somebody would want to make their optic more susceptible to damage by mounting a solar cell on it’s head when you’re already able to get 50K hrs with shake awake.
It works REALLY good! Set the manual setting in the middle but with the solar panel in bright sunlight it goes to max brightness without using your battery…
You miss the main point. Solar in full sun might be a fun-to-have at the range, but has little value in any life-threatening situation, and certainly adds to unreliability. How does your solar strip handle a drop-test ? Can it short-out your red-dot electronics ? Water access ? Can it operate under more realistic shade or indoors lighting ? You may as well duct tape an extra battery to your pistol slide b/c that’s exactly the equation – likely won’t help in any realistic emergency & it adds to unreliability.
If you don’t have the disciple to change a battery every 10k to 20k hours then you need to question if you have the disciple to carry. For outdoor range use – I have no quibble.
China has not come up with anything on its own as I can remember except this covad virus but then again dr. facci was helping them and the democrats and screwing over the American people
General Gau’s chicken.😉
Fireworks. The only thing made in China I want to purchase any more. And if there was a good American manufacture I’d buy from them.
“Trijicon sues competitor for making superior products at a lower cost.” Yeah, I said it. There’s a reason the people who actually test and use their equipment recommend Holosun RDS on equal footing with the RMR Type2.
The low-round-count-never-actually-tried-Holosun “muh Chinesium” butthurt sheep replies can line up in the comments below 👇
Also, anyone replying on a smartphone, laptop, desktop, or really any modern internet-enabled electronic device can take their “buy ‘Mericun” speech and shove it
Calm down chief, you own fucking stocks or something? Maybe you should go get some Chinese Healthcare before you blow a gasket.
Your posts are childish, like someone is threatening to steal your pacifier.
Holosun isn’t just made in China, the much bigger issue is that they’re owned and directed by the Chinese government as part of their military industrial complex. Their U.S. office is just a field office- the HQ and manufacturing is in China.
Actually the vast majority of my electronics are made in Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Taiwan ect… the tiger economies.
I purposely do go out of my way not to buy Chinese and it isn’t hard, the Tiger economies are starting to put preform China in both quality and cost.
I’d rather my money go to somewhat western friendly countries like Korea or Taiwan rather then a communist shit stain like China.
Im not sure you know what your buying. You may own things assembled in other countries, but the parts ALL come from China when it comes to electronics like computers/cell phones.
Your not doing anything to hurt them, but keep on keeping on if you like. Stop buying ALL of these products if it really hurts you that much.
Holosun makes air-soft grade gear not worth a fraction of what you pay for it. I don’t know why you wish to defend them so vociferously. If you want to throw your money away supporting ChiCom made junk, go for it. There are a boatload of companies and products to chose from in the red-dot field. Including companies who make products in China with higher QC than Holosun.
Then why has holosuns sights outperformed trijicons on sage dynamics reviews? They are suing because holosun is innovating and kicking their ass. Damn capitalism getting in trijicons way.
They haven’t. You’re either lying or you don’t understand what you watched.
…Five bucks says you have no idea who or what Sage Dynamics is nor are you familiar with their optics reviews. Your statement is factually incorrect. In an objective, rigorous, scientific test that is well known for easily destroying pistol RDS, all of Holosun’s products either matched or exceeded the durability and performance of the RMR Type2. Go to YouTube, search “Sage Dynamics RMR” then “Sage Dynamics Holosun” and get ready to eat your words
I just watched the several youtube – and no Sage Dynamics does not rate Holosun over Trijicon. You must be a watching with a closed mind. He states several useless but not detracting features of Holosun a (overly wide & vague, unnecessary rear sight, 32moa ring annoying).; states clearly the Holoson 507 is not good for a full-size pistol (508 & 509 have similar windows as RMR, 507 is very small). The 507 fairs worse but passes on the drop-test.
Maybe you had your fingers in your ears here June 26 …
https://youtu.be/-6qCSQH4mwg?t=623
“This (Trijicon RM06) is the one you need to look at first and last. This is the one you need to go with. … my personal choice right now … until something new comes along this is [Trijicon RMR type 2] “.
So NO WAY – Sage Dynamics’ top choice is not the Holosun.
Look, the Holosun isn’t bad – I’m not dumping on it functionally. But the assertion that it’s better based on Sage Dynamics is false.
Anyone who asserts these are “scientific” is a fool – he doesn’t even produce any quantifiable test results. Just a pass/fail on the drop-test and the rest is SUBJECTIVE. Yes I like Cowen’s excellent field tests – they are not evidence based nor scientific and he admits as much.
@rudukai13
“scientific test”
????? Umm no its not. Sage Dynamics is just another former veteran firearms/tactics training company. I am not discounting their experience or expertise but they are not stress test engineers AT ALL.
You need to put down the UuuuTube for a while brother.
Aaron Cowan has the most consistent and destructive stress testing regimen for pistol RDS currently available to the average consumer. He may not use programmable machines to do his testing, but that doesn’t invalidate his results. He is one of many public figures who actually uses and abuses his equipment for the purposes of informing the average consumer and every single one of them says Holosun is on par with Trijicon – if not superior.
I don’t care if my equipment is assembled in Chy-nah, all I care about is whether it will work when I need it to save my life. And according to every source with the experience that lends them credibility and my trust, my Holosun products meet that standard.
Buy it or don’t it’s up to each individual to decide for themselves. But in this particular instance, “just as good” cannot be used in the pejorative sense – and that’s not up for debate
Lol the Holosun’s are nice but they’re not superior. Not by a long shot.
Never seen you in this comments section before ese, now you’ve written pages of material under one article. You work for the Holosun or some shit?
I’ve been in the comments and have contributed content published on this blog for years. Not associated with Holosun in any way other than being an extremely satisfied customer and user of their products
People just think if you pay more, its better.
And/or buy what the US military buy to feel like they are cool or something.
Get over it. China makes good shit, often better than what anyone else can make for cheaper. These are the facts, and your just scared.
Golly I wonder if TruGlo copied ’em too!😏😏😏😏😏
Holosun must be taking market share very effectively for Tricon to sue over patent infringement. Rather than innovate or improve call in the lawyers.
In America patents must be defended or it can and has resulted in companies losing that patent protection, and that’s why any company who can afford to litigates when they see a patent violation.
Chinese gov’t controlled companies like Holosun don’t care about patents, trademarks, copyrights- China will steal anything.
Unlike trademarks, patents don’t need to be defended since they can’t be genericized. However, there is a limited windows after infringement where you can take action. Patent disputes can be tricky. If claims are too specific, a product might not infringe because it doesn’t have all the claimed characteristics. Patents can also be argued to be improperly granted and invalidated in courts. Big tech companies have huge patent legal departments that are constantly suing and getting sued, and the results are often cross licensing of the patents.
And patents have been lost when it’s found there is prior art. If it’s found a university created the same thing before and it’s public domain then poof it’s gone.
Agreed my man, but this isn’t the case. Trijicon must (as an American technologies company) fight China whenever they can. American companies have been trying for years. It’s widely known China steals and uses American IP from a wide range of business sectors. I wholeheartedly support any company fighting for there IP rights.
Trijicon has a duty to enforce their own utility patent. If they do NOT sue someone who violates the patent, the patent may be invalidated.
as everyone sits on their chinese parts phones and computers typing out comments
On point. Of course, most here aren’t technicians, so they have no idea the level of ignorance they espouse. My pc is mostly Japanese in origin, though there are some Chinese parts. Phones, can’t be helped for the most part.
Do I own or have I owned Holosun? Yes, a 510C Elite sit’s atop my bullpup 12 ga. and it’s seen a fair few high velocity rounds, they’re only thing that makes it cycle proper. It works fine, & has never given me a moments problem. I don’t have any issues with the Chinese. Their government, and by extension anyone who supports them, is a different story entirely.
I would mention, I don’t cotton much to any government currently in existence. Patent infringement & patent trolls are equal in my eyes. Will wait to see how this plays out before I cast my lot on the subject.
There is quite a difference buying and using products made by entrepreneurs in China and buying and using products directly funded, distributed and controlled by the Chinese Communist Party, like Communist owned Holosun. It doesn’t take much effort to verify that fact.
While companies like Apple, Microsoft, HP, etc., have their products “manufactured” in China for their American owned companies, the profits do not go to fund the Communist regime of China. While that might not matter to some, it matters greatly to others.
And lest I be berated as a low round count something or other, I’ve been shooting regularly since the 70s and currently own and use five optics of various makes…not of whose productions funds the Chinese government.
Just as some people don’t want to support China, I get it. I am not interested in supporting a company, even if they are local to me, who’s views are the Christain equivalent of Wahabism.
So they’re torturing women and murdering children now?
CZ rips of designs all the time. Bren is a SCAR rip-off, CZ75 ripped off the P35 that’s the commie way.
Czechs aren’t communist you moron. Lol
They were when the CZ-75 was designed. That gun was standard issue for Soviet police and army, I’ve heard. The anniversary edition has a hammer and sickle on it.
BOOM BOOM
ME NO LIKE SYMBOLS
Commies make better shit, sorry
The Bren and the Scar were developed at the exact same time. The SCAR could be a ripoff of the Bren for all we know.
Add to the fact the Bren is a better weapon system anyway.
improved.
This COMMUNISM talk is all so foolish. America ripped off Mauser, too, don’t forget — remember the 1903 Springfield? German Mauser by another name. And Mauser sued for patent infringement too, AND WON. Does anyone want to guess how many times American gun companies have been sued for copying the patented inventions of other Americans, French, German, Japanese, Chinese, blah blah blah blah …. Imitation is the highest form of flattery. It is called CAPITALISM. Copy your competitors, but do it cheaper and better. Trijicon has not WON its lawsuits … yet. So far, they are just upset that Holosun are better CAPITALISTS than Trijicon, if the comments about QUALITY, PERFORMANCE, and COST are accurate.
“ The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.” – Attributed to Lenin.
The main point of contention is funding an evil Communist regime that seeks to be a near peer competitor nation with the U.S., not the idea of whether or not a company has been infringing on a patent. Whether you care or not, almost every Chinese company has to have direct links and permission to operate from the Chinese Communist Party or PLA to exist.
The next war China engages in, which will be over raw material, resource, and energy routes, I’m sure everyone will be happy to see those soldiers equipped with the same optics and technology that was funded by the American consumer.
Two months ago I bought a 507C-GR V2 for my FN FNS-9. It has more features than the RMR, but uses the same mounting configuration and is high quality. It cost less than half of the RMR. I also looked at Aimpoint and many others. I went with Holosun because of best value. I just could not afford Trijicon or Aimpoint. Similar to Nike with its shoes to sports teams, I imagine Trijicon offers LE and military discounts and the rest of us subsidize the cost. Trijicon has its patents and has been gouging us all for several years with its very overpriced optics. Okay, so some comments are all about buying American. I’m all for it but when the optic costs more than the gun, it seems ridiculous to join in. None of us can call the others hypocrites because everyone of us purchases something that was made in China. And I’m not totally sure but recall that to do business in China, the Chinese government must own 51% of the company or subsidiary. So, yes, they can steal the technology, copy it, improve it, resell it, etc. If you voted for the past several presidents, then stop whimpering. Trump is the first and only president in my lifetime that has taken a stand against Chinese intellectual property theft. He just signed an EO today to bring back essential manufacturing to the US. So go ahead and vote for Sleepy Joe and watch a remake of jobs lost, manufacturing back to China, higher taxes, federal gun control, socialized health care that we middle class folks will pay for, reversal of thousands of regulations (aka laws that Congress didn’t pass), reversal of energy policy (oh but we’ll have a new Marshall Plan for the miners et. al.).
Here is the Bloomberg quote Dan Z. mentions:
“Trijicon also filed a mirror suit in federal court in California, but that’s likely to be on hold until the ITC case is done.”
My understanding is that Aimpoint filed the first patents on using a “Mangin mirror” or reflector on their early red dot sights. French col. A. Mangin figured out to to make a nearly perfectly collimated search light beam using only spherically ground glass surfaces, instead of a parabola reflector. The glass both refracts and reflects the light.
https://uslhs.org/mangin-mirror
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangin_mirror
Unfortunately, a single bullet can destroy a glass searchlight reflector, so the French military stuck with polished sheet metal reflectors.
I believe that the patent figure at top shows a Mangin mirror arrangement. The Aimpoints have zero parallax at one distance, perhaps 50m. I don’t know if there is a connection between Aimpoint and Trijicon. I would have thought that such patents had timed out.
The other thing I’ve seen is that Deltapoint and maybe the Sig Romeo claim to have non-spherical optics. Nowadays, it is not a big deal to have a computer controlled machine tool cut a parabolic reflector mold of optical quality for molding glass.
Holosun have passed ALL of Sage Dynamics brutal torture tests. Sig has failed all of them. Trijicon also passed them, at double the price.
I’ve had both. The Holosun isn’t just as good at half the price. It’s BETTER, especially the auto-adjust and solar power features.
That’s capitalism. Trijicon is just angry it can’t compete in the free market anymore.
Interesting comments….my thought: it’s America, buy what you want. There’s sideways business strategies and manipulation everywhere. It’s all Bs at some level. Buy what you want and don’t knock others for doing it. If info comes out that ties companies to blatant government affiliation in communist countries, let the people who buy there products deal with there own moral issues. No one should be pushing there thoughts on one another. Free Will folks.
How about American companies start offering competitive products at a competitive price ????
Yes, I will pay a REASONABLE PREMIUM for an AMERICAN MADE product over Chinese any day.
But, the Holosun seems to be a superior product at 1/3 of the price.
American companies need to to better.
Will Vortex be offering a similar product to the 507K soon, and how “American” is their company and manufacturing?
This is the best comment on here.
Everyone else is too busy thumbing their bibles and defaced american blue lives flags to see past the lies they are told everyday. More money does NOT mean its better.
But if the military uses it, it has to be better right!?!
I read that patent that was linked to, and it is so generalized that virtually EVERY red dot on the planet would violate it. The only unique part of the Trijicon sight that they have actually protected is the shape of the lens housing, which means they have no legal leg to stand on (if you don’t protect your patent, you are SOL). The housing shapes of the Holosuns are generic shapes, not even close to the Trijicon protected housing.
As far as all this hand wringing about buying from China, I’m not a fan, but are you going to stop buying legal drugs? Because a very large percentage are made in China, and the Chinese government profits greatly from them. Ditto for any Apple product, PPE, lithium batteries, like in mobile phones, laptops, electric cars, tactical lights, etc., the list goes on and on. We should bring our manufacturing back from overseas, China in particular. But even if President Trump gets re-elected, that’s not going to happen overnight.
This is incorrect – the violation relates to the illumination controls being located on the same part of the housing that supports the optic lens. This covers a very specific design that most RDS manufacturers avoid.
After a quick review of US patent 8443541; the violation relates to the illumination controls being located on the side of one or both ‘posts’ that support the optic glass. Holosun is in clear violation of this patent, and Trijicon has a duty to enforce their own utility patent. If they do NOT sue someone who violates the patent, the patent may be invalidated.
Jexus that’s a thin premise for even issuing a patent. Notably, control locations have been disputed before in the phone arena, successfully unfortunately.
Patent applications like that should be tossed in the garbage where they belong. This would, if ruled in favor of Trijicon, make a great case for quashing the USPTO’s issuing of such ludicrously frivolous patents further up the food chain. Reading the full patent now to see if there’s anything more to this.
Agreed, the control schema is the target.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8443541B2/en
Relevant subsection is:
Claims (20)
In summation, you can’t put your buttons there because we patented that location. If this doesn’t drive home how utterly broken the patent system is, & has been since 1995, especially after 2011’s revisions in the Leahy–Smith America Invents Act, I fear nothing will. Thanks Obummer.
Holosun is in fact owned and controlled by the Chinese government as part of their military industrial complex. It’s NOT a Canadian company. It’s irrelevant to reply with mention of other products being made in China because that doesn’t refute the fact that Holosun is owned by the Chinese communist regime.
Control button locations?!? They REALLY got a patent on where the buttons are located?? What BS.
Always look where your stuff is made.
Trijicon, EOTech, Leupold (Only sights I own) all made AND MANUFACTURED in America.
Oh, Troy and DD for irons. Sure there are others, just listing what I own.
And don’t buy from Amazon 😉
Close but no cigar! I have some of these and I prefer them over the RMR, Trijicon just pissed they taking their RMR business!
Maybe Aimpoint should sue them all.
I wouldn’t buy Holosun anyway post Covid, now I won’t buy Trijicon either because being petty is lame.
Violation of patents are a serious thing. We want companies to not only invest in new technology but to get them to do so we incentivize them to make the technology available to society as a whole. Patents are the trade off, for a limited time (20 years) the company that developed the technology holds the monopoly on that technology in order to make or license the product, but after that it is freely available to anyone. Think John M. Browning w/ over 100 patents in his lifetime that we have the benefit of today.
China makes things cheaper because they steal the technology developed in other countries and are protected by their government who actively encourages the practice. This is not limited to consumer products but includes industrial as well as military items. I worked at a company that was receiving a number of warranty claims on an industrial electrical component we made. It turns out a company in China had “obtained” one and reversed engineered it but had cheapened the components to where they would fail often causing a fire. The company I worked for was having to answer for the fake product that we did not make because it was disguised to look like ours but we found some tell tale clues which lead to China and we had the funds to be able to investigate and track to the manufacturer in China. Most American companies are small business who do not have those resources.
China is not our friend or ally. They do not have the same end goals as us and most of America will not see what we are losing until it is too late (or almost too late). On many products you no longer have a choice of what to buy, it is made in China or nothing – but where you have a choice, is an extra couple hundred extra to keep jobs and new tech development in the US Worth it? Yes, it is. Will Americans and (even more importantly) American Companies do that? As a general rule, no they won’t.
Look at these idiots ready to jump on the patriotic bandwagon, not realizing it was just another shrewed attempt of large corporation like Trijicon to fight back for market shares and pocket that “patriotic tax” from average good hearted American gun owners. Holosun never posed any threat to Trijicon before with their older cheaper designs, because they occupy different niches in the market, but now with the excellent 407, 507, 508 series, Trijicon is feeling the heat and huge loss in their prior MONOPOLY on the handgun micro red dot market. Now Holosun has a much better product at half of the price, of course I’d try every tactic to suckerpunch an up and coming competitor, especially in time like now. The inventor of aircraft, Wright brothers, were also spending their careers sueing every company that made things fly after them, accusing them for patent infringement, and guess what, the Wright brothers failed because you can’t hold a monopoly on concept that leads to a new platform of doing things. Without innovation, Trijicon is just gonna end up like Remington, another arrogant old benemoth ready to be forgotten by the consumers. People in this chat openly acknowledged that before Holosun, they couldn’t find anything to compete with Trijicon, and that is the sad picture of the ugly monopoly that Trijicon held on our American gunsumers. If you want to spend the extra $300 hard earned money in a shitty economy like now on a product of inferior quality all for the sake of corporate promoted consumer patriotism, it’s your choice. After all, monopoly is the other extreme of evil. You make the call. I know I’m buying more Holosun 507s before the price go up.
THIS
Also remember this from their website. Most of their stuff is USA made, but not all of it. Its Japan but still not full supporting the USA.
“Our AccuPoint® riflescopes are assembled in the USA but have significant components purchased in Japan. Our Huron™, Ascent™, Tenmile™, and Credo™ riflescopes are manufactured in Japan according to our design and testing requirements.”
For those claimed that Holosun is “in fact” owned by the Chinese government, can you be specific on what the “fact” actually is?
I am struggling to understand how this patent is a valid patent. It appears to be an obvious improvement to a prior art patent. The claims (where a patent stands or falls) primarily refer to the control switches located on opposite vertical posts (sides of the optic) and the ability to control brightness and switch between manual and automatic modes where the brightness is controlled by a photo sensor. The disclosure in incomplete in that they discuss the need to protect the lens from fractures but don’t disclose how they do that nor do they make a claim to doing that. The Holosun uses all controls on a single side (unlike Trijicon), not on opposite sides and other vendors not being sued like Swampfox Sentinel and Riton’s optic would appear to be stronger violators of the patent in having the illumination controls on opposite posts just like Trijicon.
I am not claiming to have studied this in depth but on a quick look I think this patent would be easy to challenge. There are limited places to place switches to control the sight on small optical sights and the sides as a location would be obvious to a practitioner of the art. The existence of an illumination means to project a reticle on a glass is known prior art and Trijicon can’t claim to be the inventor.
I’mma put my 2 cents here:
I couldn’t give half a sh!t where the company resides, was founded, or where the piece (sight) was made at, I care about 2 things..
1; Is it a quality product?
2; Is it worth the price?
If the answer is YES then I’ma buy it.
I live in a budget, And can’t have the luxury to pay twice the price for something that does the same job of another more affordable product just because it has a cool sticker that reads “made in USA” when I know it wasn’t entirely made in USA.
Maybe if I had to storm the beaches of Normandy, or fight in Felisha I’d consider the trijicon, but I don’t have the government’s money, as a matter of fact they took it from me, the toughest tactical application I have is checking down the hall and into the den when the wife leaves the tv on.
Holosun is good enough for me, and at a price point that I can actually barely afford.
Sitting by and laughing at all of the “I ONLY BUY AMERICAN” people. You all are so full of it your eyes are brown.
We TRY to buy American. But problem is, about 75-80% of everything we own is manufactured or assembled or designed outside of the US. Yes, we can try to not support lying-ass China but unfortunately, accounting for 1/7 of the world’s population means they’re gonna be part of our lives in products we buy, so… yeah.
Me, I have to base my choice on price. I wanted a red dot for my new G34. The RMR was my first choice, but with one of the only in-stock vendors being at $475 for the 3.25 MOA optic, and then the 2 MOA Holosun with better reviews and a solar panel being up for $240…
I bought the Holosun, two extra mags, and some CR123s for my Streamlight. And still paid less than I would’ve for the Trijicon.
If Trijicon wants to sell more products, they may need to give in to lower price tags so that they can win the market on those who don’t qualify as ‘the elite’.
Who benefits from these lawsuits…….that’s right the companies/corporations……..you as the CONSUMER do not benefit from higher prices……why would you want to buy from a company that does not make effort to decrease their prices???? Ideas do not belong to anyone….what makes you think someone else didn’t have the same idea?……..Best way to protest against a company that keeps their products expensive and suppresses other companies from making a better and cheaper product………NEVER buy from those companies until their damn prices goes down
Holosun features are really killing Trijicon on these pistol optics. That HE508T-GR X2 is sweet. I wish some other China company would rip off Holosun and make a $50 copy…hahaha
So to everyone dogging Holosun. What’s the difference between sourcing parts from China and Trijicon sourcing parts from Japan? Oh right, because Japan is our supposed Ali. I own both, but I rarely touch the Trijicon since the Holosun’s features and usability are way more attractive and didn’t break the bank a badly. Some people would say what’s another $200 dollars for American made? Well I know more that care about that extra $200 than don’t, especially after they get the opportunity to at least test both. I can now honestly say you are definitely paying for a lot of the name in Trijicon now. Ok so it’s bomb proof they say, which doesn’t hold true to all their optics by the way, and their design is patented, among some other smaller features, like the packaging they probably throw another $50 towards the price because it’s like a mini pelican box lined with egg carton foam. I don’t know about you, but my optic is on my pistol, not in the box. I have buddies that are obsessed with wasting their money on stupid shit such as that but hey we all have our little fascinatos in life. I just think there are some things Trijicon could do to cut costs for the every day consumer but they are more focused on their government contracts, their cash cow, which is why Holosun is blowing past them. They are focused on every aspect of the optic game for the every day consumer. So go ahead Ahead all you Triji hard core users, and tell me after using a Holosun you don’t feel a little ripped off, cuz I most certainly did. And to Trijicon, shame on you for using “American Made” which isn’t 100% true, to take advantage of the American consumer.
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